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Missing 7-Year-Old`s Dad Files for Divorce
Aired June 29, 2010 - 20:00:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight. Live, rural Oregon. Stepmommy walks a 7-year-old little boy down the hall of his own elementary school to the science fair. He`s never seen again. Tonight, why do police insist stepmother take a second polygraph?
Bombshell tonight. In a stunning twist, 7-year-old Kyron`s dad files for divorce in secret, the court slapping stepmommy Terri Horman, the last person to see the boy alive, with a restraining order. It gets worse! Stepmom ordered to stay away from firearms and the children. What does Daddy know? At police urging, Kyron`s dad moves out of the house, taking the 19-month-old baby sister with him, tonight at a location secret even from Kyron`s stepmother, the divorce documents, the restraining order, the court evidence so explosive the judge seals the restraining order file, keeping it secret so as not to hinder the investigation.
Reports the stepmom has now taken two police polygraphs, and up until the last hours, denied any and all marital discord, the divorce and restraining order so secret, so covert, even she didn`t know about it. Tell me how -- how -- does a 7-year-old little boy go missing from his own elementary school classroom?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A stunning twist in the Kyron Horman case.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The father of the missing 7-year-old boy has filed for divorce from the boy`s stepmother and was granted a restraining order against her.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She is involved. That`s where the numbers take you. That`s where the facts as we know them take you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A lot of attention has been focused on Kyron`s stepmom, Terri Horman. Investigators have circulated flyers, asking people for information on her whereabouts the day Kyron went missing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Terri Horman`s father said there was a 50/50 chance Terri would be arrested.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The police are working thoroughly to get him home.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Meantime, the family is left with the most important question unanswered. Where is Kyron?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Bombshell tonight. Stepmommy walks a 7-year-old little boy down the hall of his own elementary school to the science fair. He`s never seen again. In the last hours, in a stunning twist, 7-year-old Kyron`s father files for divorce in secret, the court slapping stepmom Terri Horman, the last person to see the boy alive, with a restraining order.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The search for Kyron Horman getting more national attention, focusing primarily on Kyron`s stepmother, Terri Horman.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She`s the last known person to see Kyron before he disappears.
GRACE: How can a little boy disappear from his elementary school science fair?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The father of the missing 7-year-old has filed for divorce from the boy`s stepmother.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Seven-year-old Kyron Horman -- he was driven to school by his stepmother.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Kyron`s family are asking the community`s assistance regarding anyone who may have seen Terri Horman, his stepmother, and or the truck that she was driving.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She said that she was walking him to the class, and she waved at him and turned around and left.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Kyron never made it to class.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So there was a very, very brief period of time when something could have happened to that little boy, and I`m talking seconds.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are taking your calls live tonight. An explosive development in the search for 7-year-old Kyron. In the last hours, even without the knowledge of the stepmother, we learn that Kyron`s biological father files for divorce. Not only that, the court slaps the stepmother, the last person to see Kyron alive, with a restraining order, ordering the former school teacher to stay away from the children and firearms. Those documents now sealed, so explosive that police fear if they are released, it will hinder the investigation into the search for Kyron.
Straight out to Kevin Miller, investigative reporter. Kevin, what happened?
KEVIN MILLER, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER (via telephone): Well, Nancy, that`s where Terri Horman would like to know. She thought that everything was fine with her and her husband, Kaine. Last night, he files for divorce, seeks and gets a restraining order restricting her from access to him, the child and a restriction to firearms. And by the way, we don`t know where Kaine Horman is right now. Terri Horman remains at home in northwest Portland, being counseled by her father.
GRACE: Now, when you say Kaine, you`re referring to Kyron`s father, correct?
MILLER: Yes, ma`am.
GRACE: Now, where is he?
MILLER: We don`t know right now. It hasn`t been disclosed where he is, or where Kiara is. She is with him.
GRACE: Now, Kevin Miller, here`s my question. It`s my understanding that he left at police urging and is staying in a secret location. Is that true?
MILLER: That`s what we know of right now, and court documents, Nancy, reveal that he has left since Saturday. So obviously, something went on with those polygraphs.
GRACE: Now, explain to me how you`re fitting that together because no one was telling us whether she had taken the second polygraph or not. But I know this much. And you can back me up on this, Mark Smith, joining us out of New York -- he`s a polygraph expert, VP of New Jersey Polygraphists. Mark, police don`t want a second polygraph if you pass the first one with flying colors. I mean, there`s no police manual or procedure that says that, but in my experience with police, once you pass the first polygraph with flying colors, they don`t drag you back down to the station for a second poly. Would you agree with that analysis?
MARK SMITH, POLYGRAPH EXPERT: Typically, that`s true. Something may have come up, new information after the first polygraph, and they want to follow up on that.
GRACE: Well, in my mind, Mark, you`re right. That`s looking at it extremely optimistically.
Back to you, Kevin Miller. Kevin, we knew that she had been asked to take a second polygraph. And this is according to the grandfather. That is our source on that. We did not know she had actually taken it. Do you believe, Kevin, that she had taken and likely failed that second polygraph?
MILLER: Yes, Nancy, I believe that based on the actions from this weekend, based on the filing for divorce and based on the fact that Kaine is not being -- we don`t know where he is, and Kiara is with him, and the idea of the restraining order being granted by the judge.
GRACE: Everybody, let me do a quick family tree. Kyron Horman, a 7- year-old little boy, is missing from his school science fair. The stepmother, Terri Horman, says she walked him down the hall, straight to his class. The bell rang. She waved good-bye. That`s the last time she saw him. He never was in class that morning. So a couple, 3, 4, 5 feet maybe, he was kidnapped, abducted in the hall of the elementary school?
We now know that the father, Kaine Horman, is now hiding out, for lack of a better word, with their 19-month-old little girl, Kyron`s little sister.
To James Pitkin, reporter with "The Willamette Week" newspaper. He interviewed Kyron`s stepmother, Terri Horman. James, what did you learn?
JAMES PITKIN, "WILLAMETTE WEEK": You know, when I saw her, Nancy, she appeared pretty calm, pretty collected, pretty demure. It surprised me for a person in the position that she`s in.
GRACE: With us, James Pitkin from "The Willamette Week" newspaper. When you say she`s calm -- you know, normally, that would be a good thing. But if your 7-year-old is missing without a trace, I don`t know that calm is such a good thing. So could you please explain that in a little more depth?
PITKIN: Well, I approached her at her house. She came to the door, did not seem surprised to see me or startled at all to have a reporter at her door, even though, as far as I know, I was the first person in many weeks to have done so. She stepped out of the house, and we chatted about things like her lawn and her pet cat...
GRACE: The lawn?
PITKIN: Well, of course...
GRACE: Her cat?
PITKIN: Yes, I -- she made clear from the beginning that she was not going tube the investigation at all. She never brought...
PITKIN: She never brought up Kyron. She said that she`s under orders from investigators not to discuss the case. I tried to lead her down the road of talking about her family a little bit, family relations. She didn`t want to go that direction, either, so we talked about the lawn.
GRACE: OK. With me, James Pitkin, joining us out of Portland, Oregon.
To Marc Klaas, president and founder of Klaas Kids Foundation. His own daughter, Polly, went missing, and since her death, he has devoted his life to finding missing people, specifically missing children. Marc Klaas, I`ve never known ever of police telling parents, Don`t talk, don`t talk to the media. Normally, they`re saying, Make a plea. Let the kidnapper hear you. Make the public interested in your child. Make them care. Make them look. Tell them the story. Tell them where you were that day. So maybe, maybe they saw your car. Maybe they saw your child. Anything! Put it out there! Am I crazy?
MARC KLAAS, KLAAS KIDS FOUNDATION: Well, no, of course you`re not crazy, Nancy. Prior to Polly`s abduction, in fact, that was what they told people. They told people to sit by the phone, wait for a -- wait for the ransom call to come in. They told people that reporters were not their friends, that they were their enemies, and the best thing to do was to step back.
I believe we started to change all that with Polly because, quite frankly, a television reporter came up to me and said, I want an interview. I said, No, I`m not going to do any interviews. I don`t want to be the next crying parent on TV for people`s entertainment. She said, I can get more publicity for your child with 10 seconds on the evening news than you can get by nailing flyers on telephone poles for the next 100 years. And that changed everything for me. I understood exactly what she meant.
I have never turned down an interview since then, much to the consternation of many people, I`m sure. But there`s no better advocate for a missing child than a family member out there talking about them, humanizing them, asking people to come out and help find them.
GRACE: Everybody, you are seeing photos from Twixpicks.com of Terri Moulton Horman. This is the 2005 Emerald Cup body-building competition. She was also a former school teacher. And as of right now, she is a subject of a restraining order, the court slapping Terri Horman with a restraining order, ordering her to stay away not only from firearms but from her own children, including -- I believe the child is about 19 months old -- a little girl, as well as Kyron Horman, the 7-year-old, now missing.
Out to the lines. Nancy in Pennsylvania. Hi, Nancy.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. It`s a pleasure to get through and to speak with you this evening.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My question is about getting an expert to interpret Terri`s body language because I find it interesting, to say least, when she is trying to act like -- basically, like she`s consoling the biological mother. She looks up at her one point, almost like in disbelief, like, Why are you crying? Why are you upset? Because to me, I see no emotion, no -- nothing out of her. She appears very detached.
GRACE: Let`s unleash the lawyers. Joining us tonight, Bradford Cohen out of Miami, Raymond Giudice out of Atlanta. What say you about her demeanor, Giudice?
RAYMOND GIUDICE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, it is a contrast to someone who would be concerned about their stepchild. As a stepparent, I know I would be going crazy. And they could take the DNA out of my bone marrow, let alone give a polygraph exam.
GRACE: What about it, Cohen?
BRADFORD COHEN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: It looks like the biological mom wants nothing to do with her whatsoever when she`s hugging her and consoling her. You can see that there`s definitely a rift there and that rift has been expanded with the recent news that you heard today.
GRACE: And to Dr. Janet Taylor, psychiatrist out of New York. Can your unintentional, your unvoluntary body movement, your body language reveal what you`re really thinking?
DR. JANET TAYLOR, PSYCHIATRIST: Well, absolutely. Ninety percent of communication is non-verbal, so your body language is extremely important and can give you great insight into how somebody really is feeling.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When Kyron was in the school that morning, it was actually a science fair that was going on prior to classes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Kyron never made it to class after his school science fair on June 4th.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: From that particular point, he did not show up to his first class.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I saw him the day of the science fair, that morning, and was just really proud of him for his -- all the work he put into his project.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Kyron once again on the cover of "People," this time with the headline, "Stepmom in the Spotlight." Under a portrait of the family is a quote from Terri Horman`s father. "She`s trying to be as cooperative as she can. I guess they think she`s going to break."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I can`t speak to Terri`s reaction a whole lot. But my reaction to it, photos of the things that were last seen associated with him that day.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight back to Kevin Miller, investigative reporter. We are taking your calls. A torpedo tonight in the investigation into the disappearance of 7-year-old Kyron Horman, last seen by his stepmother walking him down the hall of his own elementary school. How many of us take our children to school and leave, believing that everything will be OK? That afternoon, the stepmother and the father, the bio father, go to pick him up at the bus stop. He never gets off the bus. He never made it to his homeroom.
We are taking your calls live. But first to Kevin Miller. Kevin, did we get any clarification -- I know the stepmother always picked him up at the bus stop every day, but on that day, the bio dad went, as well. Did she arrange that? Did she ask him to go with her to the bus stop, so she could go, Oh, he`s not on the bus? What happened? Or was it his normal practice to go with her to the bus station -- the bus stop?
MILLER: Well, Nancy, as we discussed last night, it wasn`t his normal practice, and because the documents are sealed and neither side are talking right now, we don`t know where Kaine is. We don`t know if Terri did ask him to go so she could appear with the faux shock.
GRACE: Kevin, how do you know it was not his normal practice?
MILLER: We discussed that last night, Nancy.
GRACE: Repeat. How do you know it was not the father`s normal practice to go to the bus stop?
MILLER: Well, we talked about that last night, and again, he hasn`t said that it wasn`t.
GRACE: OK. You just told me that he normally did not go to the bus stop, so I assume that you knew that to be a fact...
MILLER: Right, because it was unusual that day that he had stayed at home and worked from home.
GRACE: OK. Out to the lines. Barbara in West Virginia. Hi, Barbara.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi.
GRACE: Hi, dear. What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My question is, it`s -- if there had -- on the - - on the test that she took, if there had been any prior abuse alleged before and for her DUI, do you think that maybe that child protective services came into play to have Dad to move out of the house and get custody of his daughter?
GRACE: Are you asking, do we think that there was prior abuse?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I heard that the other night on your show.
GRACE: OK. To James Pitkin with "Willamette Week" newspaper. Do we know anything about prior abuse?
PITKIN: In the restraining order request that came filed with court, he cited an Oregon law to protect families from abuse. Specifically, the law says you can apply for these orders if there has been abuse or if there`s the imminent threat of abuse to the children.
GRACE: What do we know, James Pitkin, about the prior DUI? Because with it was a reckless endangerment to children charge.
PITKIN: That`s right. That was in 2005. She blew nearly twice the legal limit here in Oregon, and she had her 11-year-old son from her first marriage in the car with her, hence the reckless charge.
GRACE: Where is the 11-year-old son? Is he living at home with her?
PITKIN: He was until this March, Nancy, and then she sent him down to Roseburg, a small town in southern Oregon, to live with her parents, his maternal grandparents.
GRACE: Why? Why did she send her own son away?
PITKIN: I went down to ask that of that child`s father down in Roseburg. He said that the child was suffering in school here and butting heads with Kaine Horman, his stepdad, and so Terri decided to send him down.
GRACE: To Matt Zarrell, our producer on the story. Matt, what more can you tell us?
MATT ZARRELL, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, the dynamic begins eight months -- the bio mom is eight months pregnant. She files for divorce against Kaine Horman. A couple months later, they have shared custody, and what happens is, she develops a medical condition. She needs to move to Canada. At that point, Kyron is living with the father alone. But because the father is busy with work, he imports Terri Horman. Terri Horman is a friend of the biological mother. She moves in to help look after Kyron. Years later, what happens, the relationship develops, they get married in 2007 and they have 19-month-old -- now 19-month-old Kiara.
GRACE: And how long have they been married, Matt?
ZARRELL: They`ve been married about three years, Nancy.
GRACE: OK. This whole time Kyron is living with the stepmother, right?
GRACE: What, if anything, do we know about the their relationship, the stepmother`s relationship with Kyron?
ZARRELL: Well, we know that she was a substitute teacher from about 2003 to 2006, and she specifically stopped working so she could be there for Kyron at his toddler years and pre-school years.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I just had this overwhelming feeling of -- sorry -- of guilt for not being there to protect him!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Investigators say Kyron`s stepmom brought him to school Friday morning, took this picture of him at Skyline science fair, and last saw Kyron near his classroom at about 8:45.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Kyron was in the school that morning. It was actually a science fair that was going on prior to classes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Kyron never made it to class after his school`s science fair on June 4th.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: From that particular point, he did not show up to his first class.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight to Matt Zarrell. Matt, this was all done very secretively. In fact, isn`t it true that the stepmother gave an interview just hours before the whole thing went down, denying any and all marital discord? Everything was fine, were her words.
ZARRELL: Yes. It`s very interesting. Literally within hours of this being filed -- it was filed about 6:00 PM -- late in the afternoon, she talks to a couple local stations. She tells them she`s heard about the rumor, everything`s fine, because they asked her whether, you know, the father had moved out with the 19-month-old. She says, Everything`s fine, it`s just a rumor, I want to squelch it right now, nothing`s wrong. The divorce papers were issued to her within hours.
GRACE: Unleash the lawyers -- Bradford Cohen, Miami, Raymond Giudice, Atlanta. Raymond, you know it`s got to be bad, about the stepmom, that he`s got to know something, the father`s got to know something explosive because they`re not releasing the documents because they say it will hinder the investigation and because the father has gone to an undisclosed location with the 19-month-old baby. That is her natural baby girl.
GRACE: What do you think, if somebody took Lucy or John David away from me? Do you know I would not drag through hell trying to find them? That mother, that stepmother, has no idea where her baby is!
GIUDICE: There`s clearly some statement of fact in that complaint that caused the judge to both seal the complaint...
GRACE: Hey, put Giudice up...
GIUDICE: ... and issue the restrictive order.
GRACE: Giudice, you hit the nail on the head, statement of fact, because that is a drastic move this judge has taken.
GIUDICE: ... to take a child away from its bio mom with not even supervised visitation.
COHEN: With not even a hearing.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: She was the last person to see Kyron alive, and then she was the first person to pick him up along with his father.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Has filed for divorce from the boy`s stepmother, and was granted a restraining order against her.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have -- we`re not in a position to talk about, you know, suspects right now.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: She`s the last-known person to see Kyron before he disappeared June 4th.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Is she a person of interest?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re not in a position to talk about people of interest. She`s associated with the case because she was, you know, the last person to see Kyron.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Her behavior has caused the police to give her two polygraphs. They`ve taken her truck twice. She`s been questioned for up to six hours, according to her father. Several times.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
NANCY GRACE, HOST: We are taking your calls live. Out to Ruby in Indiana. But hold on, Ruby. Just as we were going to break, I heard attorney Bradford Cohen saying something.
I just picked up the tail end of it, Bradford. Bradford joining us out of Miami. Giudice was talking about the restraining order and you said not without a hearing, right?
BRADFORD COHEN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Right.
COHEN: Essentially, what happens, Nancy, is I said, not without a hearing. These are very serious things when you take away a biological baby away from a biological mother.
GRACE: Hey, hey, hey.
COHEN: And to hear --
GRACE: Hey, put Cohen up.
COHEN: And the hearing --
GRACE: You don`t think we know that?
COHEN: Yes, but what I`m saying --
GRACE: Everybody on this show is either a cop, a shrink, or a lawyer. We know it`s serious. I am a mother.
COHEN: Absolutely, but it`s --
GRACE: I know it`s serious. So tell me something I don`t know, Cohen.
COHEN: OK. It`s entered ex parte, which means the mother has no defense to this. He files the paperwork and as Ray so eloquently put it, it`s based on the factual statements in that -- in that motion.
COHEN: It`s not based on any hearing. So what I`m saying is, the mother doesn`t have a defense to it. So to take something so seriously as a baby away from a biological mother, it has to be a huge factual statement that is entered in there.
These are not entered willy-nilly. A judge has to seriously look at this because there is no defense put on by the mother before they take the baby away.
GRACE: Put Cohen and Giudice up. Cohen.
COHEN: Yes, ma`am?
GRACE: You could not be -- you could not be more correct. So let`s make it very clear to the viewers how we think this whole thing went down.
And everyone, this is a major, major development in the search for 7- year-old Kyron. His stepmother says she took him to school, his elementary school, a public elementary school, in a very rural area. She walks him into the science fair, takes a photo, walks him to his first class, his homeroom, the bell rings. She waves to him and that was that.
He never was in that class. The teacher says he was never in that class. OK? Something`s not right. Since last night when we discussed this case, the father has not only filed for divorce, but gotten a temporary restraining order, banning the mother from seeing their baby, a 19-month-old baby girl, having anything to do with the children, including Kyron, and to stay away from firearms.
In a nutshell, Giudice -- nutshell -- how does it work? Who goes into court? Who says what?
RAY GIUDICE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: The complaint is filed for divorce with a proposed temporary restraining order. The judge put the petitioner, the father, under oath. The lawyer and the -- and the client made a proffer of evidence to the judge.
It was ex parte. The judge ruled right then and there and sealed the documents. The judge was obviously concerned.
GRACE: To Dr. Robert Kaufmann, an expert in his field of internal medicine, joining us out of Atlanta.
Dr. Kaufmann, to all the moms out there, they already know the answer to this but explain the care a 19-month-old baby girl needs.
Look, my husband is totally hands-on. My parents, their grandparents, they`re hands-on. My husband`s parents, hands-on. But I would not trust a single soul other than me to take care of that baby.
DR. ROBERT KAUFMANN, M.D., INTERNAL MEDICINE: You sound --
GRACE: And they are taking the baby away from the mother. What kind of care does that 19-month-old need?
KAUFMANN: First of all, you sound just like my wife, but the truth is --
GRACE: Yes, no offense to the husbands, it`s just that --
KAUFMANN: No. You`re absolutely right. But you know you`ve got to wonder that -- first of all, that they got the restraining order. The father must be involved with the care of the baby to begin with.
Secondly, you would think that the 19-month-old would be very hysterical to be away from her mother, unless she`s abusive or evil to the child. So there`s something else going on.
So the father must have a role in taking care of that baby. It is very difficult. I don`t think anybody can replace a mother, but there`s something going on with the relationship with that 19-month-old that made this happen.
GRACE: I mean, Marc Klaas, president and founder of KlaasKids Foundation, this is a very serious development in the case. I mean, this practically screams out, Terri Horman is implicated.
No, she`s not been named a suspect, she has not been named a person of interest. But the fact that they are keeping these files secret because it could hinder the case, I mean, Marc, when Lucy was 19 months, she still was not eating correctly.
I would have to try and feed her in the bathtub. That`s the only way I could get her, or anybody, could get her to eat solid food, was to feed her as she sat in the bathtub. And I would -- it would take me, sometimes an hour and a half, and I would bathe her twice a day so I could feed her solid food.
Now what if this baby has some kind of an issue like that? And this is so integral to the police investigation. They`ve taken the 19-month-old away from the mother.
MARC KLAAS, PRESIDENT AND FOUNDER, KLAASKIDS FOUNDATION: You know, last March, this woman had three children living with her, and now she is standing absolutely alone. But the central heartbreak in this entire case is the fact that -- that Kyron --
KLAAS: -- is still missing. Let`s -- Kyron, yes. Let`s just hope, let`s just hope that they are able to get the information out of her that will lead them to this little boy`s whereabouts because his parents, his bio parents deserve to know what`s happened to him.
GRACE: But Marc, Marc --
KLAAS: And they deserve to bring him home.
GRACE: Marc, this is not -- if she`s implicated, this means somebody hasn`t taken the baby and we`re going to get a ransom note, all right? This doesn`t mean the 7-year-old has been taken to another country and somebody has swiped him because they want a little boy to raise.
If she did it, she`s been nowhere Kyron. It means he`s dead. If she did it.
KLAAS: Nancy, I -- I would not want to be the first person to say that, but this has not looked good from the beginning. This woman has lied, she`s placed herself at the location and time of his disappearance within mere seconds. She went to Sauvie Island, although she claims she never went to Sauvie Island. This had not looked good for this little boy.
GRACE: See, I don`t understand what that is. I don`t understand what is Sauvie Island? Do we have a map of that, Dana? Explain to me she went to some island. We know that because of her cell phone pings but isn`t it a -- isn`t it nearby and the family had been there before? What is that, Sauvie Island?
KLAAS: It`s about nine miles away. And it`s only accessible from the school by one road. It`s about a 15-minute trip to this island, and yes, they had been there before. And apparently it`s a marshy kind of an area where possibly a body could be disposed of.
GRACE: And was there any reason for her to be there? Was the timing on those pings from her cell phone, Marc Klaas, immediately after she dropped him off at school, she went there? I mean, what`s the timeline on that?
KLAAS: Yes, I`m not sure if the timeline was immediately after she dropped him off or if, in fact, it was during the times that she supposedly was -- was dropping him off. But she`s also claimed that she wasn`t at Sauvie Island. So the mystery only deepens -- the mystery only deepens as we move forward.
GRACE: OK, Kevin Miller, is that correct? Did she say she was not at Sauvie Island?
KEVIN MILLER, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER: As far as I know, that is correct. Yes.
GRACE: OK. That is a big problem, Kevin Miller, because a ping doesn`t lie.
To Sgt. Scott Haines, Sheriff`s Office, Santa Rosa County, Florida.
Sergeant, explain to me about the cell phone pings. A ping couldn`t be wrong.
SGT. SCOTT HAINES, SHERIFF`S OFFICER, SANTA ROSA COUNTY, FL.: Cell phone pings work off of triangulation and GPS, and you can sometimes get satellite drift, or within a couple of meters, you`re going to get a reliable location --
GRACE: Don`t say meters.
HAINES: -- of where that cell phone was at.
GRACE: This is America. Meters. What do you mean by meters?
HAINES: Unfortunately, that`s what they -- they give it to us in. Within 15 to 20 feet, you`re going to --
GRACE: Now, now you`re talking English. Thank you.
To Dr. Janet Taylor, psychiatrist and MD, you have studied her body language, you have studied everything that she has said so far. Weigh in.
DR. JANET TAYLOR, PSYCHIATRIST: Well, I mean, I think there are a lot of things troubling about her. Number one is, he -- this little Kyron couldn`t even see that well. And what mother would walk in and not deposit her child in the class, number one?
The discrepancy about where she was. And also the fact that reportedly she went to the gym to work out while he`s missing. So there`s certainly an element of detachment. And I agree with what Marc said.
In March she had three kids with her, now she has none. You just wonder about the quality of the relationship and what was going on with her psychologically. And also, in addition to the restraining order, maybe over the weekend, she made a threat to hurt herself or her family, and so she was considered a danger to herself or her family, and that`s another reason why the 19-month-old was taken away from her.
GRACE: I know the calls are stacking up. We`re going to be taking these calls as soon as we get back. We`re trying our best to get all the facts out there that we know of tonight.
You are seeing photos of 7-year-old Kyron Horman, 3`8", 50 pounds, brown hair, blue eyes, eyeglasses. Tip line, 503-261-2847, $25,000 reward.
As we go to break, I want to wish a happy 11th birthday to a little California crime fighter, Sirina. She`s set to start sixth grade this fall. She loves arts, crafts, video games, playing with her cat, Sparta.
And to Sirina`s mother, you better hug her tight. Happy birthday, Sirina.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: (INAUDIBLE) car rolled that jumped in the road into the (INAUDIBLE). One, there only to serve divorce papers and a restraining order to the stepmother of missing 7-year-old, Kyron Horman. A shock, friends say, even to Terri, considering her husband Kaine said this to K2 just Friday.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: How has your relationship at home changed with Terri? Has it changed at all?
KAINE HORMAN, FATHER OF MISSING 7-YR-OLD BOY, KYRON HORMAN: I wouldn`t say it`s changed between us. It`s just a different dynamic with one of the children not being at the house.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: In the weeks since Kyron vanished from Skyline School, rumors swirled Terri is a suspect. But the Multnomah County Sheriff`s Office has only said she`s the last person known to be with the second grader.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight to Matt Zarrell, our producer, the grandfather has stated -- and it wasn`t just to us, it`s to "People" magazine as well -- that there`s a 50/50 chance that Terri Horman, the stepmother, is going to be arrested, and that she had taken a second polygraph.
What do we know the grandfather said exactly?
MATT ZARRELL, NANCY GRACE STAFFER, COVERING STORY: Well, yes, he said the finger points at the stepmother. He was asked, do you think that your daughter will be arrested? He said, I think it`s 50/50. He talked about the two polygraphs. He also mentioned her truck getting towed.
And one thing I wanted to clarify is police have told us that the reason the truck was towed is because it broke down, not because they were investigating it.
GRACE: But at this point, isn`t it true, Matt, that she, the stepmother, Terri Horman, believes police are on her side, according to one of her friends?
ZARRELL: Yes, the friend does tell -- there are reports that the friends are saying that Terri Horman has told her friends, police tell her she`s not a suspect and she believes that the cops are on her side.
GRACE: You know, Marc Klaas, at a time like this, I find it hard to understand why there are sides at all.
KLAAS: I`m sorry, hard to understand why there are what at all?
GRACE: Why they have taken sides. She says she think police are on her side.
KLAAS: When we were looking -- in my experience with other people involved in these situations, the parents specifically, is that you are dominated by fear. That you have one singular goal, and everything else becomes a peripheral issue. You`re looking for your child, and you`re not weighing who`s on whose side, who`s doing what to who.
You`re totally and singularly focused on recovering your child. You`re not going to the gym. You`re not posting on Facebook. You`re doing nothing more than looking at -- looking for your child, trying to tamp the fear down, and trying to -- trying to tamp down the rising anger within.
GRACE: Kevin Miller, tell me about her postings on Facebook and her working out that Marc Klaas has alluded to.
MILLER: Well, Nancy, she was a former body builder and she made postings on Facebook with Kyron on it the day he disappeared, a few hours after, isn`t this cute? And again, she was told, you know, when people questioned her, Nancy, they said, why are you doing this? And she said, well, police told me to act like it was normal, to get on with my normal life.
GRACE: And the posting on Facebook was what?
MILLER: She made a remark about the photo of Kyron at the science fair that day.
GRACE: And this is after he goes missing?
MILLER: Was that day, I believe.
GRACE: OK. Kevin Miller, when was it that she was working out?
MILLER: She was working out, what, during -- during the search and such. She would go to the gym and she was again asked by police, from what I heard, Nancy, that she was told by police to try and get on with her life and to, you know, do these things such as working out because she`s a former body builder. That`s a way -- how they relieve stress, by going to the gym.
GRACE: OK. Give me a "now" picture -- a now picture, Diana.
Everybody, that photo you`re seeing is from twixpix.com of Terri Moulton Horman, 2005, Emerald Cut Body Building Competition.
All right, she obviously is not body building anymore. So it`s not like she`s under a strenuous body building regiment.
To the lines, Ruby in Indiana. Hi, Ruby. What`s your question, dear?
RUBY, CALLER FROM INDIANA: Hi, Nancy. Have they checked the school inside, and, you know, all the nooks and crannies and took dogs in and searched the school?
GRACE: You know, Ruby, I know a lot of people would think that`s a crazy question, but remember the recent case of the Yale graduate student and her body had actually been stuffed into the wall in one of the labs? So your question is very on point.
What do we know, James Pitkin, joining us from the "Willamette Week" newspaper. Have they thoroughly checked everything around the school?
JAMES PITKINS, REPORTER, WILLAMETTE WEEK: The sheriff`s deputies have assured us that they have searched every probable location multiple times. That the search has been extremely thorough. There were 40 agents from three states working on this search.
GRACE: Back to Marc Klaas, president and founder of KlaasKids Foundation, joining us out of San Francisco.
It`s not like that she is a current body builder. Now she just looks normal. She just looks like a regular, everyday physique. She`s not overweight, she`s not out of shape, but she`s not a body builder. So nothing is dictating that she go and have a strenuous work out at the gym.
But you and Kevin Miller are telling me that in the days after his disappearance, she was going to the gym and making Facebook postings.
KLAAS: I can`t, for the life of me, believe that a law enforcement official would tell a parent of a child who`s just disappeared to try to get on with their normal life. Normal -- normal disappeared the moment the child disappeared.
From that point on, everything changes entirely. There`s nothing that fair, there`s nothing that`s normal, your routine changes, your psychology changes, you begin running on adrenaline.
You`re fearful for what`s happened to your child. You build up hope that disappears a little bit, day after day after day after day after day and it`s a singular focus that never changes.
GRACE: Marc, I even hate to hear you all that because I remember being a crime victim and losing somebody that I loved. It was literally weeks, weeks before I could even take a bite.
I can still remember the first thing I consumed after Keith`s murder. It was a swallow of orange juice. And it took me I don`t know how long to even do that.
Out to the lines. Alene in Louisiana. Hi, dear. What`s your question?
ALENE, CALLER FROM LOUISIANA: Thank you for taking my call, Nancy. You have answered one of the first part question.
ALENE: What I wonder is if the authorities have considered the motive might be that she was feeling so resentful because she was raising her stepchild while her own son had to be sent away?
GRACE: What about it, Dr. Taylor? That`s an interesting point from Louisiana.
TAYLOR: I mean I certainly think that`s an important point to look at. You know her stepson got sent away. She`s in this new relationship that it sounds kind of questionable how they even got together. So it`s valid.
GRACE: Well, she`s been in the relationship for years, Dr. Taylor, it`s not new.
TAYLOR: Yes, but -- well, she was hired to take care of him. It`s not like we don`t know if they were dating, if it was arranged or how manipulative she was to get into that spot. And now she`s got her stepson, she`s got her baby daughter. And --
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DESIREE YOUNG, MOTHER OF MISSING 7-YR-OLD BOY, KYRON HORMAN: The worst hell I`ve ever experienced. I can`t even explain it. I never in a million years would have thought we would be here.
HORMAN: Every day for us, Kyron was in it.
HORMAN: And he is in it, it`s just in a different --
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Dr. Robert Kaufmann, Kyron has been missing since June 4. If -- if he is still alive, if there was not foul play, if somehow he`s wandering around in the marshes and Sauvie Island, 25 days have passed. Could he still be alive?
KAUFMANN: Very unlikely, because there`s not enough nutrition, not enough fluid. The water is dirty. I can`t imagine that if he`s walking around in the marsh he`s still alive.
GRACE: And, Dr. Kaufman, he has horrible vision problems.
KAUFMANN: Right. I mean, not being able to see, not being able to find any clean water or anything like that, there is no way.
GRACE: Dr. Taylor, I mean, people ask me all the time, what`s the motive for a parent to kill a child? Well, I don`t think it happened because there`s not a motive. But what motive could there? But there is no motive for a parent to kill a child.
TAYLOR: No, I mean absolutely. And thankfully it really isn`t that frequent. But more commonly it is the mothers. And if they`re in difficult relationships, if they`ve been abused, if they`re psychotic, if they`re depressed, but again, thankfully, you know, it doesn`t happen that commonly.
GRACE: To Mark Smith, our polygraph expert joining us in New York.
Mark, why a second polygraph? What do you think? You`re the expert.
MARK SMITH, POLYGRAPH EXPERT, VP OF NEW JERSEY POLYGRAPHISTS: A number of reasons. Either she failed the first one and they just want to give her an opportunity to take a second in case there was some anomaly.
New evidence may have come up that they want to test her on. There could be a lot of reasons.
GRACE: And, Mark Smith, do you firmly believe in polygraphs?
SMITH: So does the scientific community, by the way.
GRACE: Everyone, let`s stop and remember Army Staff Sergeant Kyle Eggers, 27, Euless, Texas, killed Iraq. Awarded the Bronze Star, two Purple Hearts, Meritorious Service medal, never met a stranger.
Remembered for giving the very best hugs. Loved being a father, wearing his flip flops and surf shorts. Leaves behind grieving parents Keith and Diane, sister Christy, widow Jennifer, sons Caden, Tegan and Zane.
Kyle Eggers, American hero.
Thanks to all our guests but our biggest thanks is to you. And tonight our prayers for little Kyron.
I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.