Return to Transcripts main page
Jane Velez-Mitchell
Step-Mom Suspected in Child`s Disappearance; Oil Spill Outrage; Did Mel Gibson Get Violent?; Lindsay Lohan Fights Back
Aired July 09, 2010 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST (voice-over): Tonight, ISSUES goes inside the dark and twisted past of Kyron Horman`s step-mom. Mind- blowing new allegations in the desperate search for this adorable little boy. Kyron`s father now pointing the finger at the step-mom, saying there is zero chance she is not involved and that she`s erratic and psychologically disturbed. Did she have postpartum depression? And a terrifying new claim. If the step-mom is involved, did she have help?
And did Mel Gibson go Mad Max on his pregnant girlfriend? The troubled superstar is now under investigation for domestic violence. New claims Gibson threatened to bury his girlfriend in his rose garden. Tonight, were these alleged deadly threats caught on tape?
Plus, Lindsay Lohan fights back, screaming out, "I`m not going to jail!" She`s been dropped by her attorney, and last night her dad dropped a bombshell here on ISSUES, claiming Lindsay was high on pills while she was in court. So what exactly is her brilliant plan to avoid jail time?
ISSUES starts now.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight, jaw-dropping developments straight from the mouths of Kyron Horman`s own parents. Their little boy went missing five long weeks ago today.
For the first time, Kaine Horman and Desiree Young say they are convinced -- convinced -- Kyron`s step-mom, Terri Horman, had something to do with little Kyron`s disappearance.
And get this. Kaine is now saying he knows Terri even walked out of her first polygraph test.
Tonight, a terrifying new question. If step-mom Terri was involved, did she have help?
Seven-year-old Kyron Horman vanished from his school June 4 on Terri Horman`s watch. At the time Kyron`s immediate family acted like they believed Terri`s story, that she watched Kyron walk towards his classroom as she waved good-bye. But Kyron`s dad told "Good Morning America" he now thinks there is zero chance that his wife is not involved.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KAINE HORMAN, KYRON`S FATHER: I think that the percentages are so small that I have no optimism in that regard, no.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Kyron`s dad admits his marriage to Terri started falling apart after the birth of their daughter a year and a half ago. Could Terri Horman have been suffering from postpartum depression? And could that drive a woman to kill? Kyron`s biological mother and father say they know Terri is lying and insist she failed her polygraphs and it proves it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DESIREE YOUNG, KYRON`S MOTHER: Unfortunately, I`m kind of at that point where I`m so angry, I don`t even have words. I just really want her to do the right thing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Terri Horman and her attorney have declined to comment on the allegations. But hearing all of this, I really have to wonder how is Terri keeping it together? As one retired police captain put it, does Terri Horman have antifreeze in her veins?
Straight out to my fantastic expert panel, but first to investigative reporter Michelle Sigona.
Michelle, what is the very latest?
MICHELLE SIGONA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, in a very candid interview, especially yesterday at a press conference -- I watched the entire press conference, Jane, and there were some interesting details that came out from Desiree Young and Kaine Horman.
And one in particular was when they were asked if Terri allegedly may have had help with -- somehow with Kyron`s disappearance. Both parents stopped. They looked at each other and then answered the question. Desiree said she doesn`t want to speculate.
And moving forward with that, in addition, they both said that it appears that Terri did, in fact, fail both of her polygraphs, when all three of the other parents did, in fact, pass with flying colors.
They are coming out. They are being candid. They are not holding anything back anymore at this particular point. And tonight at 8:30 at Skyline Elementary will be a very large candlelight vigil to be able to honor Kyron and hopefully bring those leads to bring this child home.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And I wonder what Terri Horman is going to be doing while that vigil goes on.
Kyron`s dad Kaine Horman says his marriage to Terri changed radically after the birth of their daughter, Kiara. Here`s what he had to say on "Good Morning America."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HORMAN: She went through some postpartum depression after the birth, and her emotional state was just more erratic.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: We`ve shown you the before and after pictures of Terri Horman before she had the baby. Take a look at her. She was an avid body builder, taking part in competitions, a perfect physique. Then her daughter was born, and her body changed. She put on weight. There you see her with her face encircled.
Dr. Dale Archer, psychiatrist, could this have contributed to the postpartum depression, and hypothetically can postpartum cause a woman to kill?
DR. DALE ARCHER, PSYCHIATRIST: No, Jane. Postpartum depression absolutely not. Postpartum psychosis, maybe, a la Andrea Yates. But if she were psychotic, everyone would have known. You have hallucinations; you have delusions.
I would say that, instead, this was a pathological narcissism on her part, and when the child was born and the husband made the comment that "my kids will always come first," she wanted to always be No. 1, always first. And I think you put that together, it led to a jealous, pathological rage that led to a narcissistic explosion.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Shirley, Pennsylvania, your question or thought, ma`am.
CALLER: Hi, Jane.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hi.
CALLER: As I remember, the landscaper said Terri promised him a lot of money if he would kill her husband. Now, I wonder what kind of insurance -- life insurance is on Kaine Horman if he`s dead.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, that`s an excellent question, Mike Brooks. We`ve never even thought of that. The possibility that there could be a financial motive and that maybe there`s an insurance situation here in the family.
MIKE BROOKS, HLN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: That`s a good -- that`s a great possibility, you know, and possibly a motive. We have not heard anything about any life insurance, was any bought recently. These are something that law enforcement have not come out with or even have mentioned, Jane. But there`s always a possibility there could be a motive.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Terri Horman took a science fair picture of Kyron -- there it is -- just before he vanished from school. He was last seen at 8:45 that morning. Then step-mom Terri posts that photo on her Facebook page at 1:21 p.m. So hypothetically speaking, if Terri took Kyron, how far could she have gotten in less than five hours? Where could she have stashed the child, unless she had help?
Here is Kyron`s mom on "Nancy Grace."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
YOUNG: No. I know she`s involved.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you think she would have done this alone?
YOUNG: I don`t believe so, because honestly, she didn`t take out a contract on her husband alone, so I think that she would probably need help.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: This brings me to my big issue tonight. Was there a mystery man involved in all of this, and could that person crack this case wide open?
Got to go back to Mike Brooks. Could Terri Horman have hired someone to abduct Kyron, just like she allegedly tried to hire somebody to kill her husband?
BROOKS: There`s always that possibility, Jane. Or maybe someone that she knows.
And keep in mind Desiree Young was very close to Terri Horman and probably knows her a lot better than some people do. So it was interesting that -- the dynamic between she and Kaine Horman during the interview, looking at her when they talk about a second person, and that she feels she probably didn`t act alone. Very interesting, Jane.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wow! Now, there`s two big "ifs" here, Mark Eiglarsh. If she is involved in Kyron`s disappearance -- and remember she`s not even considered a suspect or a person of interest according to the cops officially -- and if she had some help, clearly her cell phone records, her e-mails, her computer records, her car, how many miles it has on it, all of that has to be analyzed.
Do you think cops have already done that and exhausted those possibilities?
MARK EIGLARSH, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I think if they -- if they haven`t done it already, they`re in the process of doing that now.
These are not rookie investigators. They`re doing everything they can. And they know they have a great challenge, because she`s got a lawyer. So she`s not going to slip up.
And by the way, you`re analyzing her behavior, the antifreeze remark. She`s doing exactly what her lawyer has instructed her to do. Don`t react. Don`t continue to write things on Facebook or put it out there on your MySpace page. Be quiet and just hope and pray the they don`t have evidence beyond a reasonable doubt.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: That was a retired officer who made the antifreeze remark, not me. I was just repeating it. Please don`t blame the messenger, Mark.
BROOKS: Oh, we will.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Everyone stay right where you are. Is Kyron`s step-mom hiding a very toxic secret? Remember I wrote a book called "Secrets can be Murder."
Plus, abuse allegations target Mel Gibson. Did he threaten to kill his ex-girlfriend and burn down her house?
But first heartbroken parents desperately searching for their adorable child. Is the step-mom hiding something, and if so, what?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
YOUNG: We`re parents. We still expect him to get up out of bed every day and come and see us. So of course we believe he`s alive until we`re told otherwise.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
YOUNG: Nighttime is extremely difficult for me. I don`t sleep well. But it`s just -- I know it sounds funny, but I can`t hear him breathe at night. And the lack of the noise is what makes it hard.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: In the days after little Kyron`s disappearance, we talked a lot about the body language of the family at the news conferences. Step-mom Terri, she`s the one with red hair comforting Kyron`s biological mother, Desiree, holding her. But you see Desiree has her arms crossed and is not reciprocating. Desiree said even back then, she thought Terri was involved in her son`s disappearance.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
YOUNG: Mothers have instincts, and unfortunately, I had feelings about this when I got the phone call.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jessica, Tennessee, your question or thought, ma`am.
CALLER: Hi. I was just wondering if there was any talk of a fight that maybe they had gotten in, and maybe she was doing this as revenge with her husband.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Michelle Sigona?
SIGONA: I`m sorry -- if there was a site?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Fight...
SIGONA: Oh, a fight.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: ... between Kaine and his step-mom.
SIGONA: Well, I think that over -- as Kaine has mentioned in numerous interviews recently within the last 24 hours, there appeared to be a very large change in her behavior after the child was born, possibly contributed to postpartum depression, possibly not.
But I think from that point there may have been a lot of ups and downs. He doesn`t really get into the specifics of it, but I`m sure that that`s something that he is discussing with investigators. And that`s a very good question.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Dr. Dale Archer, psychiatrist. A friend of mine called and said maybe she has Munchausen by Proxy Syndrome. What is that in a nutshell?
ARCHER: That sounded like Pat Brown. Pat is a big proponent of that diagnosis. I mean, Munchausen is essentially a disease that you manufacture a whole host of medical conditions one after another. And by proxy means that you do it in another. But I don`t see anything that would indicate...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: In other words, in plain English, that she would make a child sick in order to cure the child or rescue the child and then be perceived of as a hero?
ARCHER: Right. Doesn`t have to be a child but could be anybody else. You make them sick. And then -- but in this case, I think it`s all about Terri. I don`t see anything pointing to the fact that the target for her anger was anything other than the reason that she was not No. 1 in everyone`s life.
Remember, she came into her friend`s life in order to take care of Kyron. Then she married Kyron`s father. And then she had her own child. All of these individuals, she felt, should be beholden to her. When that didn`t happen, I think it was more than she could bear.
EIGLARSH: And Jane -- Jane, if she goes to the extreme length of allegedly trying to hire a hit man to kill her husband, obviously trying to kill or killing, God forbid, his child is probably the best way to harm him, in her mind.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. It`s just -- you know, this whole case, once we heard about the purported attempt to hire a hit man, went into a whole other stratosphere.
Now Kyron`s biological parents say they passed their polygraphs with flying colors, but Terri did not. Let`s listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HORMAN: I think everyone knows the fact she`s taken two polygraphs. She has not passed those two polygraphs.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Kaine Horman, in fact, says his wife went in to take the first polygraph, went through part of it and walked out in the middle of it, then delayed more than a week before taking the second one.
Mike Brooks, I mean, that`s extremely incriminating if true. Is it not?
BROOKS: You know, it is, Jane. But because I was saying before we had this tidbit that, No. 1, maybe it was inconclusive; might have been new questions. She might have been too upset. But when you walk out, they`re going to have you come back, because there are questions remaining they want to ask you.
EIGLARSH: Jane -- Jane...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Mike?
EIGLARSH: I disagree. We don`t -- we can`t say whether it`s incriminating or not. We don`t know what relevant questions were asked. What specific questions were asked.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Walk out?
BROOKS: But why would you walk out?
EIGLARSH: Hold on.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: One at a time. I`m going to have to bring out the big gavel.
EIGLARSH: Because perhaps the questions -- because perhaps the questions asked, for some reason, were ones that she didn`t want to answer, unrelated to this. She`s in a deep bit of trouble right now for allegedly hiring a hit man. God knows what else she`s been doing. That doesn`t necessarily mean that those questions showed deception as it relates to her involvement in this particular case.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, let me just say -- go ahead.
BROOKS: The polygraph -- but during the polygraph, Mark, if there are questions that need explanation, they will allow you to go ahead and explain the answers that you have, even though it might seem you`re being deceptive.
EIGLARSH: So what were the questions?
BROOKS: But why get up -- but why get up and walk out?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Thank you.
ARCHER: Mark, I think that the fact that LeBron James is coming to Miami has got your thought process completely off base here. I got to say...
EIGLARSH: I would agree. I would agree, yes.
ARCHER: So that is -- to me, that is unbelievably suspicious when you get up in the middle of a test where you`re being evaluated for a kidnapping and walk out. And she had to know that.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Look, I walked out on my SATs once.
EIGLARSH: It depends on the questions. Wouldn`t you agree?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: That`s not the same kind of test. All right? This is a test where we`re trying to find a missing child. I cannot think of one personal question I would not answer, however embarrassing, if I thought somebody`s life was at stake. I mean, come on!
EIGLARSH: Did you -- how about this one? How about this one? Did you in any way have anything to do with hiring a hit man to kill your husband? I`m out of here! I didn`t know they`re going to ask me questions about that. Well, that doesn`t mean I took the kid.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well...
BROOKS: You know what, if she hired a hit man, then I think that`s pretty good evidence that she`s suspect No. 1...
EIGLARSH: I don`t disagree with you.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Maybe you need to join her legal team.
EIGLARSH: I don`t disagree with you on that, obviously.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. I want to get to another big issue here. Kaine Horman and his daughter are living in an undisclosed location right now, but Kaine wants his house back and he wants Terri out. Check this out.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HORMAN: Concerned about my daughter. She should be where she`s the most comfortable. And we`re in a great place right now, but it`s not her home. And to displace a child for the comfort of an adult, you know, I think we all have our opinions on how appropriate that is.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: So, Mark Eiglarsh, how does he legally proceed to try to get his house back since he left with the child?
EIGLARSH: Goodness gracious...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And got a restraining order against her?
EIGLARSH: Yes. Well, you go in front of a judge and you lay it all out there, a judge who has been watching your show and others, who`s well aware of the situation, and hope that you get what you need in this situation.
SIGONA: And they are scheduled to go to court on July 22 for that, Jane.
EIGLARSH: Yes.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: But, I mean, what`s the legal argument? She hasn`t been charged with anything. He left of his own accord. She`s possibly part owner of the house. How do you say, "No, you`ve got to leave because you`re under suspicion, but you haven`t been charged with anything"?
EIGLARSH: It`s going to be a challenge. And it depends on the facts. I don`t have all the facts, Jane. We don`t know really what`s going on. We don`t. We`re outsiders. I don`t know.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: What do you think, Mike Brooks, of the statement that she has antifreeze in her veins?
BROOKS: Well, that`s -- I`m not -- I`m not Dr. Dale Archer, that`s for sure. But it sure seems like she does. And I still just can`t get past walking out on that polygraph, Jane.
EIGLARSH: Get past it.
BROOKS: I`m not getting past it, Counselor. I`m not.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I agree. It`s the most incriminating thing we`ve heard so far.
EIGLARSH: Inadmissible. Inadmissible.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Lindsay Lohan telling friends she is not going to jail. We`ll have that next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight escalating outrage over a catastrophic spill that has been hemorrhaging oil for almost three months. Now BP and the U.S. government are feeling the blowback from furious, fed-up Americans.
This spill is an unprecedented environmental disaster. Still, just this week an appeals court struck down the government`s push to ban deepwater drilling for just six months.
But what the government is banning is public access to the clean-up effort. Even reporters are now being kept at least 65 feet away and threatened with jail and fines if they sneak in. So how can we hold BP and Uncle Sam accountable if we can`t even see what they`re doing?
Straight to Aaron Viles from the Gulf Restoration Network.
Aaron, thanks so much for being here. You`re down there in Louisiana. The public was pushed out right after fishermen reported seeing turtles being burned alive during the clean-up. What else could they be trying to hide by trying to keep the public and reporters away?
AARON VILES, GULF RESTORATION NETWORK: Well, what we know is BP`s oil is coming into an extensive marsh ecosystem, one of the most important in the nation, and it is really having a huge impact. It`s killing wetlands; it`s killing wildlife.
We know that BP workers are stepping on pelican nests. They`re driving over least tern endangered grounds, an endangered bird. So we know that the impacts from the BP contractors are significant, even as they`re trying to clean up BP`s crude oil.
So it`s outrageous that the federal government is allowing BP to push -- you know, push the media out of the area. The 65-foot ban is outrageous. These are public water bottoms that the public can`t get access to right now to document what BP`s oil is doing to our threatened and fragile ecosystem.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Right. They say power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely. If they are just operating with no oversight by the people and reporters -- because we know the government is basically in bed with them -- then who is to make sure that they`re not doing these horrific things like burning turtles alive and trampling on nests? It`s outrageous.
VILES: Yes, it`s outrageous. It`s something that -- the public needs to see what`s happening. I think CNN has done a good job. Groups on the ground such as ours also are looking to tell the story and show the pictures of what`s happening out here. So naturally they`re clamping down on public access.
And that is something that the public needs to very loudly tell the Coast Guard it`s not appropriate; it`s not acceptable. These are our waterways. These are our wildlife refuges, really, that the oil is coming into it. So we should all have access to it through CNN, through groups like the Gulf Restoration Network, as well.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, you`ve given me an idea. And I`m going to put the number up. I`m going to get it. The Coast Guard. I`m going to find out how to call, and I`m going to make sure that we all call and say, "We want to be able to see what you`re doing in there."
The response to this apocalypse has been horrifically slow-footed after Kevin Costner begged the oil industry to look at his oil-removal machine long before this disaster. Everybody, government, private industry, laughed in his face. Finally, they saw the light well into this disaster.
Scientists also say peat moss is great at soaking up oil, but you can`t resell it once it`s soaked up, so they`re not using this environmentally sensitive solution.
You know, I am just so astounded, Aaron, at the collusion between government and industry in this mess.
VILES: What I think is most outrageous is here we are 21 years after the Exxon Valdez. They`re using the same clean-up technology. That clean-up technology was wholly inadequate for the Valdez.
You know, there was legislation that was passed after the Valdez, the Oil Pollution Act of 1990, that directed the oil industry and Congress to come up with better technologies. Where are those technologies?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: We`ve got to leave it right there. We want you back. More.
Mel Gibson...
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL: Did Mel Gibson go mad max on his pregnant girlfriend? The troubled superstar is now under investigation for domestic violence. New claims Gibson threatened to bury his girlfriend in his rose garden. Tonight were these alleged deadly threats caught on tape?
Plus Lindsay Lohan fights back, screaming out, I`m not going jail. She`s been dropped by her attorney and last night her dad dropped a bombshell here on ISSUES claiming Lindsay was high on pills while she was in court. So what exactly is her brilliant plan to avoid jail time?
Tonight did Mel Gibson physically abuse and threaten his ex- girlfriend who is the mother of his baby daughter? The L.A. County sheriff says they`re investigating claims the controversial Hollywood icon attacked Oksana Grigorieva earlier this year. Oksana has reportedly said he knocked out one of her teeth, abused her physically and made threats, quote, "many times".
One such purported threat is a real doozy, people. RadarOnline reports Oksana secretly recorded Mel during one of their fights and caught him on tape saying, quote, "I will bury in the rose garden," end quote. She says she took that as a death threat.
TMZ reporting the cops are looking at three possible offenses -- domestic violence, child endangerment and threatening her with a handgun.
What? For the record Mel has denied hitting Oksana and knocking out her tooth and now a late-breaking twist. TMZ says Mel`s lawyer says Oksana made a false report to cops and tried to extort money out of him in exchange for those secret tapes. They want to see charges against Oksana.
CNN has reached out to both camps for comment on today`s development; we did not hear back before deadline. But both sides are always invited on this program. ISSUES wants to be fair to all sides.
Straight out to my fantastic panel: back with us Dr. Dale Archer, psychiatrist -- boy, do we need you; Bonnie Fuller, president and editor-in-chief of hollywoodlife.com -- great to have you.
And we begin with Dillon Howard Sr., executive editor of RadarOnline.com. Dillon, what is the very latest?
DILLON HOWARD, SR., EXECUTIVE EDITOR, RADARONLINE.COM: Jane, this story has more twists and turns than a Hitchcock thriller. And we revealed this morning that Mel Gibson in fact threatened to bury Oksana Grigorieva, the mother of his illegitimate child, in his rose garden at the Malibu mansion.
Now, this of course followed the January 6 incident in which Oksana claims Mel attacked her while she was holding their daughter, Lucia.
Now, of course there`s been more revelations today. And I can tell you right here, right now, that Mel is also alleged to have waved a gun at Oksana after that January 6 incident. Now, I`m told after speaking to sources very close to the situation that Oksana fled into the backyard, she was barefooted. She was near the pool. And then Mel emerged from his bedroom and he was waving a gun at Oksana, so concerned for her life, she fled the house, got in the car and drove straight out of there.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Dillon, have you heard these tapes?
HOWARD: Yes. RadarOnline has heard this tape. There is 13 minutes of taped rants and of course we revealed first that these tapes included the explosive rants as one person described of a mad man. They were laced with profanities. They were racist. He targeted blacks. He used the n-word. He targeted Latinos. He used the phrase wetbacks.
But more tellingly we heard these tapes this week and on one of the tapes, on one of the excerpts Mel Gibson is heard talking about Oksana. She says what kind of a man would hit a woman that is holding his child. To which Mel responded, you know what, you f-ing deserved it. And that, I understand has certainly been a key and crucial part of any investigation into domestic violence against Mel Gibson.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Bonnie Fuller, Mel`s last movie is called the "Edge of Darkness"? Is he on the edge of darkness? If this is true he`s insulted every racial ethnic group not to mention his previous anti-Semitic rants. Is he done? Is he toast in Hollywood?
BONNIE FULLER, EDITOR-IN-CHIEF, HOLLYWOODLIFE.COM: I think he`s absolutely toast in Hollywood. And that`s despite the fact that apparently he is still in the midst of filming a movie right now. I think he`s done. I don`t think we`re going to be seeing him on film after the release of that last movie.
I don`t think you can go on in the liberal community that Hollywood is after you have insulted that -- every ethnic group possible and in the worst possible terms. Plus, it`s not -- domestic violence is not something that people in Hollywood and elsewhere in America take lightly. And if he`s convicted, he could be going to jail for up to four years.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Mel and Oksana have been involved in this heated custody dispute over their baby daughter for months now. TMZ reports in May after they split Oksana got primary custody and Mel got visitation. The report cites sources who say she wanted to limit or even prevent Mel from seeing their baby at all. TMZ says Mel claims Oksana was bitter over that deal and that`s why she made up this story that he hit her.
Dr. Dale Archer, who knows what happens behind closed doors? I mean, the tape is one thing. If it exists, it could come out at some point. But nobody knows about this he said/she said. Doesn`t it take two to tango a little bit when it comes to these marital dysfunctions?
DR. DALE ARCHER, CLINICAL PSYCHIATRIST: Well, Jane, it may take two to tango but I think you have to look at past history here. And if you look at Mel Gibson past history, boy, it really isn`t good. I mean he has admitted to being diagnose bipolar. He has admitted to having an alcohol problem.
And you know, as you get older with those conditions if they`re not treated your brain starts to suffer damage. I think we`re seeing a complete meltdown right across the board right in front of our eyes because, as we`ve said, he has offended every single group, all women, all minorities. The Jews -- literally, who else is left to offend? I think he`s melting down. I think he`s really in trouble.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Has Mel now become actually more well-known for his outrageous and offensive purported remarks than for his movies? Remember this clash between and a movie critic who just happened to be Jewish?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SAM RUBIN, REPORTER, KTLA: Some people are like people are going to welcome you back and other people are going to be like you should never come back.
MEL GIBSON, ACTOR: Why?
RUBIN: Because of what happened before.
GIBSON: What happened before?
RUBIN: The remarks that were attributed to you.
GIBSON: That were attributed to me that I didn`t necessarily make. Ok. But -- and I gather you have a dog in this fight?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: They were talking about Mel`s 2006 DUI arrest and the anti-Semitic tirade he unleashed on the cop which, by the way, was initially covered up until TMZ blew it open.
Recently Oksana claims Mel told her she would get raped by, quote, "a pack of n-words because of how she was dressed". And Mel reportedly unleashed words against every ethnicity race, in addition to gays and even animals.
I`m actually left kind of speechless by all of this. Bonnie Fuller what`s your prediction that some of these tapes if they exist will get out?
FULLER: Well, there is a chance that they will get out in court. I know that it`s been said that they`re inadmissible but attorneys that we`ve spoken to say that there are cases where it -- where a judge deems that they`re so important to the case that he has to hear them. So they very well could get out.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And we only have five seconds, but, Dillon, he has a very distinctive voice. You say your organization has heard the tapes. Just yes or no. You`re sure it`s him?
HOWARD: Personally, I`ve heard the tapes. Yes, it`s Mel Gibson. His lethal weapon is his tongue.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Thank you, wonderful panel. Again both sides invited on our show. We want to be fair. We`ve reached out to them.
It`s day 81 in BP`s oil apocalypse. You all know my opinion on this Black Death. But I`m glad to know that I`m not the only one losing sleep at night. Here`s one of our viewers going off on his own rant, an ISSUES rant.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OMEKONGO, VIEWER: Whenever I go on the Internet now, Facebook and other sites, I`m seeing people forming organizations to boycott BP.
Come on, people, at the end of the day, don`t boycott BP. We need to boycott ourselves. We are addicted to oil in this country and what are you going to do, cut and paste? It could have been easily Exxon Mobil. It could easily have been Citgo. It could easily have been Sunoco. So what are we going to do, switch our money and go to a different gas station now?
We are a country that is addicted to oil. George Bush said it. Barack Obama said it. We need to right now focus on developing alternative forms of energy. We have the ability, we have the technology but we`ve been lacking the will.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Omekongo thank you so much. Are you as outraged as I am about this oil catastrophe? Send in an ISSUES video rant. It can be about the oil spill. It could be about any story you see here on ISSUES that gets your blood boiling. So get going. Get out those Web cams and send your ISSUES rants to Jane@CNN.com. Please keep them to 30 seconds or less. We`re going to air the angriest one, the best ones, the most passionate ones here live.
Up next, shocking revelations from Lindsay Lohan`s dad; was Lindsay high on prescription pills during her court appearance when she wept?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAEL LOHAN, LINDSAY LOHAN`S FATHER: There`s absolutely no doubt that she was on prescription medication. And I thank you, Jane, because this needs to be discussed not only with Lindsay but with other kids or adults that have succumbed to prescription medication.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight Lindsay Lohan`s life spirals out of control. Is the actress in complete and total denial? As her high powered celebrity attorney gets outs of there and a 90-day stint in jail looms ahead, a terrified Lindsay vows she`s going to fight back but is she delusional?
She`s reportedly hired an attorney fresh out of law school and she`s telling friends, I`m not going to jail. Lindsay is apparently freaking out that the jail where she is supposed to be sent bans some Lohan essentials -- no makeup, no hair extensions and no cigarettes.
What? What`s she going to do? Lindsay has also been sentenced to 90 days in rehab to battle her other more serious addictions. She may be strapped into a SCRAM bracelet but that hasn`t stopped Li-lo from hitting those clubs.
Her dad Michael tells ISSUES the troubled starlet is hooked on a slew of powerful prescription drugs. He thinks Lindsay was high as a kite when she made this tearful plea in court.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LINDSAY LOHAN, ACTRESS: I know that I was ordered to go once a week. And it wasn`t -- you know, I wasn`t missing the classes just to hang out or do anything like that. I was working mostly. In Morocco, the trip I was working with children. It wasn`t a vacation. It wasn`t some sort of a joke. And I respect you. I`ve been taking you seriously.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Plus, could Lindsay`s courtroom fingernail flip- off get her more time behind bars? Stunning new developments.
Straight out to my fantastic expert panel: criminal defense attorney Mark Eiglarsh; star of VH1`s "Sober House" and recovering addict Jennifer Gimenez; a psychotherapist, Sherry Gaba.
And I begin with editor-in-chief of HollywoodLife.com, Bonnie Fuller. Bonnie, dare we ask what is the very latest?
FULLER: I`ve got to agree with you. Lindsay is in denial and so is her mother Dina. Dina apparently is going -- is going to be going on "Entertainment Tonight" tonight saying they are fighting back. They believe that they can -- that they`re poring over case books because they think they can appeal her sentencing. And that`s why Lindsay, I believe, is telling people she`s not going to jail.
Now, we`ve checked on this and we -- we hear that her chances for appealing that sentence are between zero and nil. So she is way delusional.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, that`s for normal humans. That`s for normal human, she`s a super celebrity and she manages to get her way. And so perhaps she has a chance because she doesn`t ever seem to go to actual jail, no matter what she does. What, has she served 84 minutes so far - - Bonnie?
SHERRY GABA, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: Jane, this is typical --
FULLER: That`s right she served --
GABA: -- of somebody that`s trying -- that`s being enabled by their parents. This is a typical example of that. Her mother is playing into her entitlement issues and it`s really going to hurt her in the long run.
FULLER: Well, it certainly hurt her in -- if you meant asking about her fingernails. It certainly could hurt her. She could be held in contempt of court for her special "F-U" fingernails.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Absolutely.
FULLER: And in terms -- and in terms of that, that`s just her typical not taking responsibility and not being accountable for her actions. And she`s not able to look and handle the consequences of her behavior. And that`s what she needs in order to get better.
(CROSS TALKING)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Lindsay`s mom Dina is furious. She may be an enabler but she`s an angry enabler. She says Lindsay was only treated harshly because she`s a celebrity. Listen to this exclusive interview from "Entertainment Tonight".
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DINA LOHAN, LINDSAY LOHAN`S MOTHER: God willing, it won`t happen. I`m trying to think -- trying to be positive right now. Everything is taken a step further with her because of her celebrity and that`s the sad -- that`s what saddens me the most, because if she weren`t, she wouldn`t be in this position. They wouldn`t be so hard on her and it certainly wouldn`t be televised. I think that`s disgusting.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, now we know that Lindsay is a chip off the old block of where she gets her ability to cry.
Mark, is there a chance that she could not go to jail? Could she successfully appeal this? Or is it going to be a question of, well, they give her 90 days but she ends up staying for three or four days and then they say overcrowding, get out of here.
MARK EIGLARSH, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Ok. It`s all in the hands of the judge. She is well within her legal discretion to sentence her to this. And let me just tell you something, for Lindsay and her mom and her dad, they all need to be thrilled that there is some jail time.
As you know, Jane, she must hit rock bottom. The best chances of her hitting rock bottom to get serious about her in-patient recovery would be in a jail cell, the opposite of the environment that she`s created for herself.
I wish her well but the only way she`s going to get free from the opiates and whatever else she is doing is if she hits rock bottom. No way this case is going to be successfully appealed.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, let me say it, I don`t think it`s totally in the hands of the judge because even though the judge sentenced her to 90 days, the sheriff`s department reportedly came out --
EIGLARSH: All right --
VELEZ-MITCHELL: -- and said -- right, Bonnie?
EIGLARSH: Right.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: You`re the one who broke it on our show. Oh, she`s not going to spend 90 days, it`s overcrowded.
EIGLARSH: Yes she will.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: She`s going to spend 10 percent of that -- Bonnie.
EIGLARSH: She will.
FULLER: You know we -- well, we heard that she`s going to spend 23 days so --
GABA: This is so typical of her being a victim; this whole mentality of -- she shouldn`t go to jail. It`s just very typical of that -- you know what I`m talking about, Jane. You`re open about your own recovery and I am too. It`s that victim mentality that she is -- that she is embracing.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: That was right.
FULLER: Now one --
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Finish your sentence --
FULLER: Ok. So the other thing is -- now, the judge sentenced her to the 90 days because she knew about the overcrowding situation and she wanted to get her in jail for the longest time possible.
However, there`s another caveat here. What we`ve learned is that in terms of the rehab facility that she goes to, she may have some choice, because the court will appoint her to go somewhere.
If she had no money it wouldn`t be -- it would be a bare-bones place. However, if she can afford to go to a better place, she could end up somewhere kind of cushy.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. And Michael Lohan told us he thought Lindsay was high in court when she made this weepy statement. Check this out from this show ISSUES just last night.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
M. LOHAN: I even said to my lawyer, to Lisa Bloom, I said, Lisa, look at how high she is. I said, I can`t believe this and -- and her lawyer is sitting there and Dina is sitting at home knowing what`s going on and no one is doing anything.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Lindsay`s probation report shows she`s on two different antidepressants, plus Ambien, Adderall which is a stimulant and another painkiller as strong as morphine.
Now, take a look at these notes Lindsay took in court. They look incredibly neat and organized. Jennifer Gimenez, former house manager of VH1`s "Sober House" and a former cocaine user. Could this be the work of somebody who is high on stimulants?
JENNIFER GIMENEZ, STAR VH1`S "SOBER HOUSE": Absolutely. Absolutely, I mean, obviously it`s a proven fact that she`s taking a lot of medication. So she is obviously you could see that is abusing it by the way she is performing here and writing all this stuff.
The thing is what gets me so upset is that the mom is enabling this girl to go into her grave, you know. It`s like at this point, the only authority figure here is the court system. And this is going to be the greatest thing for her.
And seriously, miracles can really happen from this experience. The one thing, though, is I do feel really bad is Lindsay Lohan is going to kick hard in jail. She`s not going to have cigarettes to come off, she`s not going to have her hair extensions, no phone. She`s going to have herself and nothing else. And that`s a really dangerous situation for her.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, because you`ve got to wean yourself off these prescription drugs. So you raise an important point. Will she be allowed to have some of those prescription drugs in jail or should she be weaning herself off now?
Everyone, stay right where you are. We`re going to have more Li-lo drama after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
L. LOHAN: I just finished some more traffic school so I`ve been in compliance which is really good. I`ve been in compliance more than ever. And I -- it would take me about 2 1/2 weeks to be finished completely. So I think it should go well.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: This all leads back to a drunken high speed chase in 2007 and Lindsay was the driver.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, my God, sir, they`re following us. We need help.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Lindsay is being sued for allegedly terrorizing her passengers as she went on a high speed chase purportedly down Pacific Coast Highway. She could have killed someone.
And tonight she is getting jail house advice from somebody who was involved in a fatal car wreck, "Prison Break" star Lane Garrison served time after driving drunk and somebody ended up dead.
Got to get back to the very important point Jennifer Gimenez raised and that is if she is on all these prescription drugs -- Ambien, Adderall, a painkiller as strong as morphine, two antidepressants -- and she goes to jail in 11 days she could literally Sherry Gaba, you`re the addiction specialist, go into seizures if she tries to just do the drugs right up until the time she`s deprived of them.
GABA: Yes, absolutely. I mean, I`m not a medical doctor, so it is a little out of my scope of practice. But my understanding is and my experience is that that`s a fatal combination of drugs and it could be very, very serious.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: No, I guess what I`m saying, Jennifer Gimenez, is that if she`s continuing to do drugs, these prescription drugs that are deemed ok by the court because one was from a tooth problem a month ago, whatever -- if she does these drugs right up to the point she goes into jail and then they yank all her pills away from her, could she go into seizures?
GIMENEZ: Absolutely without a doubt, yes. My experience has been that. Also the fact is if she`s abusing her medication -- which is probably most likely -- she -- and they allow her to take her meds, her normal doses -- she`s still going to go through a withdrawal regardless because she`s abusing the medication. By far, it`s like I said yesterday, it`s a suicide cocktail.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Mark?
EIGLARSH: The problem is she should right now accept her fate, go into detox and they can slowly take her off these opiates. The problem is her head -- she`s clearly in denial. So her idea is let me find a lawyer -- and you`ll find one out there. She did in what you claim to be a rookie lawyer -- to now try to get her out of this. She`s thinking she`s going to get out of this.
Well, 11 days later all of a sudden you`re not out of this and you still have all this stuff and dependency in your body. That`s the problem.
(CROSS TALKING)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Go ahead.
GABA: When she gets to jail, though, what will happen is she will be examined by the doctor inside the facility. And I have to guess they have a lot of experience on people like Lindsay coming to them that are used to being high and used to taking very large amounts --
EIGLARSH: It`s a harsh detox in there. It`s going to be rough for her.
GIMENEZ: It is a detox. People detox all the time.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: The pills are the problem.
Thank you, fantastic panel. We`ll stay on top of this one.
I`ve got to say good-bye to someone who has really become very dear to my heart, Michele Van Der Hoff has been one of the most astounding employees here at ISSUES. She makes it all come together. She is really brilliant. She`s organized. She is efficient. She`s smart as a whip. She`s quick.
But the nicest thing is she`s nice. She`s one of the kindest, most compassionate people I`ve met. We wish her well as she goes on her new adventure. We know she`s going to take the spirit of compassion that she experienced here on ISSUES with her.
Good luck, Michele.
END
