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Jane Velez-Mitchell
Step-Mom Had Affair, Claims Missing Boy`s Dad; New Allegations in Kyron Horman Case; Barefoot Bandit Caught; Mel Gibson`s Rant Caught on Tape?
Aired July 12, 2010 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST (voice-over): Tonight, the desperate search for Kyron Horman tears across the country. Thousands of tips pouring into the FBI, with sightings from thousands of miles away. Tonight an intrepid local reporter goes face to face with Kyron`s suspicious step-mom. We`ll analyze her reaction as stunning new reports claim someone else knows the dark secret surrounding what happened to this adorable little boy.
And the Barefoot Bandit, now barefoot and busted. The worldwide manhunt ended in a high-speed boat chase in the Bahamas. This 19-year- old kid allegedly stole cars, boats and five airplanes. Now he`s in the clinger. Cops say he committed more than 100 burglaries. Tonight, why on earth has he become a cult hero?
Plus, was Mel Gibson caught on tape spewing demonic death threats? Gibson`s ex-girlfriend says the Hollywood mega star punched her teeth out and threatened to kill her. Tonight, a new horrifying phone call. Is this Mel on the other end of the phone? You will hear it here.
ISSUES starts now.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight, staggering new twists in the Kyron Horman investigation. New court documents -- I`m holding them right here in my hands; they`re hot off the presses -- accuse step-mom Terri Horman of -- are you sitting down? -- starting up an affair sometime after little Kyron vanished. Unbelievable.
Get this: Terri`s estranged husband, Kaine, claims she`s been having a sexual relationship with one of his high-school friends, a person he identifies as Michael Cook. Kaine says Terri didn`t meet Cook until after little Kyron`s disappearance last month. Kaine also claims that Terri planned to kidnap their 20-month-old daughter, Kiara. Will these stunning claims finally lead to an arrest?
We also have dramatic new video of Terri`s tense confrontation with an intrepid reporter. He demanded answers about Kyron`s mysterious disappearance. But Terri was speechless and stone-faced. Watch her try to hide behind her attorney`s assistant. Check this out.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAN TILKIN, KATU REPORTER: Do you know where Kyron is?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hey.
TILKIN: Do you know -- Terri, do you know where Kyron is?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Look, you`re on private property.
TILKIN: Desiree and your husband are saying that you know where Kyron is. Do you know? Can you tell the world something? Can you please tell the world something?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: That was weird. Terri says Kyron vanished sometime after she dropped him off at school June 4. She gave a detailed account of exactly where she was that day, but police say her bank card, her cell-phone records contradict her story.
Although Terri is not officially a suspect, she has become the sole focus of this investigation. Kyron`s dad and biological mom went public about their suspicions.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DESIREE YOUNG, KYRON`S MOTHER: I`ve known her a long time. I know she`s lying.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I am taking your calls on these extraordinary developments. Again, claims of an affair by Terri started up purportedly after her stepson disappears on her watch. 1-877-JVM-SAYS. That`s 1-877-586-7297.
I want to welcome my fantastic expert panel, but let`s begin with investigative reporter Michelle Sigona, who`s all over this one.
Michelle, what is the very latest? Lay out these stunning new developments for us.
MICHELLE SIGONA, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER: As you mentioned, those papers are hot off the press. I have a copy of them, as well, in my hand, Jane. And they indicate that Terri may have had a sexual relationship with one of Kaine`s childhood friends.
Now, if this is the same Michael Cook that Kaine knew, I spoke with him late last week.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey, Daniel. Can you give me Program A? Things are all screwed up.
SIGONA: And he told me that they met later on -- earlier on, and they had been estranged for some time and that they reconnected only recently after Kyron went missing. That`s the first thing.
The second thing is...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wait, wait. I`ve got to go back to that. You spoke to Michael Cook?
SIGONA: If it is the same Michael Cook who claims to be one of Kaine`s childhood friends, I spoke with him. I`ve got him in my cell phone. He said he was going to Washington, D.C., last week. I spoke with him maybe five or six days ago.
And what he said was that -- that he and Kaine, they had reconnected about eight or nine months ago. They had been meaning to kind of get together and to have dinner and things like that ,but it just never happened. But then when Kyron went missing, that`s when they were all really kind of brought together, reunited. There`s a small group of friends there.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, this -- this document -- this court document says that this guy is a childhood friend of Kaine`s.
SIGONA: That`s correct. That`s correct.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And so that`s astounding. Did he mention being involved with Terri?
SIGONA: No, he did not mention being involved with Terri. He said that their goal was to be able to, you know, continue helping, assisting the family, and looking for little Kyron.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wow! This is amazing.
And I`ve got to say, Michael Cook, if you`re out there, you haven`t been accused of anything. And we would love to talk to you and have your side of the story. We`re trying to reach out to you.
SIGONA: Yes.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: We haven`t been able to -- did you reach him today? Because we`ve been trying to find him. Now we find out right here on ISSUES that you have his cell-phone number. Have you been able to reach him after these extraordinary...
SIGONA: No, I have not been able to reach him. No, I reached him -- I reached out to him last week. And like I said, again, if it`s the same Michael Cook which I think that it is, I reached him over Facebook. I left him my number, and he called me.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Well, listen, if you`re watching, call us. Call us, Michael Cook, because your name has come up in this court document. This is extraordinary.
Let`s listen to Terri Horman`s other extraordinary confrontation with KATU reporter Dan Tilton. Check this out, people.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TILKIN: They`re saying that you failed two polygraph tests. Did you fail two polygraph tests?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Would you give us some...
TILKIN: Could I speak with her? Why won`t you talk with investigators? Are you cooperating?
Terri, do you have anything to say? Do you have anything to say? Do you know where Kyron is, yes or no? Can you tell us yes or no?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Dr. Lipman.
DR. ALAN LIPMAN, PROFESSOR OF PSYCHIATRY AND BEHAVIORAL SCIENCES: Jane.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: First of all, what do you make of her demeanor in light of these new extraordinary claims by her husband in a court document that she was having a sexual relationship that started after little Kyron disappeared, exchanging hundreds of text messages with this individual, some of them including graphic sexual activity?
LIPMAN: Well, let`s keep in mind that this has not been confirmed yet. But if this turns out to be the truth, it certainly adds a good deal more substance and weight to the reasons why -- and this has been confirmed in the restraining order; this is no longer an allegation -- that she hired their landscape gardener, paying -- offering $10,000 to kill her husband. And this would provide, obviously, a motive for that ad.
Now, with regard to her demeanor, look, this is a thrice divorced, angry, jealous woman who, after the birth of Kiara, experienced a postpartum depression, so probably had increased psychopathology. And so we`re dealing with someone who is in the grip of jealousy, anger and rage and unable to visit upon her husband. There is certainly the possibility, while yet to be confirmed, that this has been visited on this poor and vulnerable child.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK. Mike Brooks, I`ve got to ask you about this. Hold on a second. Mike, I`ve got to ask you about this.
MIKE BROOKS, HLN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Yes.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: The documents made public show Terri was accused of making sexual overtures to the potential hit man, similar to those she made to this Michael Cook.
BROOKS: That`s exactly what I was going to bring up, Jane. On section 14, it was the first and last page of the court documents says, quote, "Law enforcement has informed petitioner`s attorney that respondent stated personal relationship concerns, and sexual overtones to Mr. Cook resemble those made to the man responded previously attempted to hire to murder petitioner." Petitioner being Kaine Horman.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`m almost speechless, but I have to ask a question. Should Kaine get a restraining order against this individual who has been listed in this document as Michael Cook?
Again, we invite this Michael Cook on our show. We -- he`s not suspected of anything. But the reason I ask that is that Kaine claims that Terri took the restraining order to Cook`s home, where Cook purportedly photographed the document, which included Kaine`s new address, and then he reportedly Google-mapped the new address.
Jayne Weintraub, what are your thoughts on this?
JAYNE WEINTRAUB, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: You know, my thoughts are two things. No. 1, let`s remember that this alleged contract with the -- with the law -- with the gardener happened in 2009. That was just three months after she had given birth to their baby. So you know, clearly, this is a postpartum depressive move.
And when you talk about what`s current, you can`t even think about two years ago. It`s stale information. That`s No. 1.
No. 2 is the fact that she made overtures or similar to the same that she made two years ago, you know, that`s a police officer`s opinion, and it`s no more similar than probably saying, you know, "Why don`t you come to my house." We don`t know.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Men (UNINTELLIGIBLE) do something, Mike Brooks.
BROOKS: I`d tell you, it`s an attorney`s opinion. That`s who -- that`s who wrote up this document, Jane. It`s not the police officer. It`s all part of the investigation that`s ongoing. But if she`s so concerned about where Kyron is, why is she out hitting on friends of Kaine?
WEINTRAUB: That doesn`t mean that she had anything to do with the...
BROOKS: But I`m just saying, why?
WEINTRAUB: She`s lonely, she`s dumped, she`s abandoned.
BROOKS: Oh, lonely. Go look for your stepson!
WEINTRAUB: Maybe she has.
BROOKS: Please!
WEINTRAUB: Mike Brooks, you know very well when you take a polygraph, you know how it goes. There`s one issue.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: She walked out of her polygraph.
BROOKS: She walked out on one. She`s had two.
WEINTRAUB: We don`t know what the questions were that were being asked. And you can only ask one issue. It probably related to knowledge, not activity.
LIPMAN: Well, wait a minute. Let`s back this thing up.
BROOKS: Thank you, doctor.
LIPMAN: We cannot link her postpartum depression directly to any of her actions including the hit man, who by the way, was included in the restraining order because the authorities said that this was a credible claim after interviewing the landscape gardener.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Hold on, hold on.
LIPMAN: So this is no longer regarded as something speculative.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`ve got to bring out my gavel at this point, because we`ve got to go to break. Hang in. We`re just getting started. This is a mind-blower.
More on this breaking news in the desperate search for adorable little Kyron. Claims by Kyron`s dad that the stepmother, who was watching the boy when the child disappeared, is having an affair and exchanged hundreds of text messages, some of them of a sexual nature, after the child vanished with somebody who is the dad`s childhood friend.
We`re taking your calls: 1-877-JVM-SAYS, 1-877-586-7297.
Plus, it took a high-speed boat chase, but the Barefoot Bandit has been captured. And he was barefoot when they caught him. You will not believe how they did.
Again, disturbing new details about Kyron`s stepmother. Will this be enough to make an arrest?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
YOUNG: Unfortunately, I`m kind of at that point where I`m so angry, I don`t even have words. I just really want her to do the right thing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TILKIN: Do you know where Kyron is?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hey.
TILKIN: Do you know -- Terri, do you know where Kyron is?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Look, you`re on private property.
TILKIN: Desiree and your husband are saying that you know where Kyron is. Do you know?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And on top of that intrepid reporter trying to get an answer out of the step-mom, who was with Kyron when he disappeared, this stunning legal document. I`m holding it in my hand right now. And it is a motion from Kaine Horman. The estranged husband of the woman you`re looking at right there.
This document filled with stunning claims and among the more stunning, that Terri, it claims, exchanged hundreds of text messages with a man that she met after little Kyron disappeared, including sexual text messages. And this man happens to purportedly be a childhood friend of Kyron`s dad? It almost makes my head want to explode; it`s so bizarre.
Jamie, North Carolina, your question or thought, ma`am.
CALLER: Hi, Jane.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hi.
CALLER: I was just wondering, has anybody come out since Terri`s affair has come out -- has anyone thought to check the pings on her cell phone that didn`t correspond with her story to the new supposed boyfriend? Kyron might be with him.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I think you`re raising a very good point. And Michelle Sigona, KGW -- before this all broke KGW reported this morning investigators believe someone other than Terri may know what happened to Kyron. Could they be referring to this individual, or have they interviewed Michael Cook about what he knows about Kyron`s disappearance?
SIGONA: They could possibly be referring to him or to anyone, for that nature. Unfortunately, you know, as you and I both know, investigators in Oregon are extremely -- they`re holding a lot of things back. They`re not coming forward with a lot, which is fine.
And I think with this new court document and new information, and as we slowly start to peel this onion back, we`re going to get to the art of it and figure out who is involved and who the key players are and where we can find Kyron.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, here`s my big issue. Who would help? Who would know? KGW, again reporting investigators believe someone other than Terri may know what happened to little Kyron.
OK, could it be her alleged lover? Could it be a total stranger? Could it be someone she tried to hire, purportedly, to do something on tour to her husband, who has now moved out of the house and gotten a restraining order against her?
Kyron`s biological mom believes Terri was involved in her son`s disappearance and that Terri did not act alone.
Hello? I`d like to, again, ask Michael Cook, if you`re out there listing, I want to stress you have not been accused of anything. You are not a suspect. You are not a person of interest. You`re a person who came up in this court document that I`m holding in my hands, and that`s why we`re referring to you. We want to hear your side of the story. If this isn`t true, call us and let us know. We want to get that out there.
But I`ve got to go back to Dr. Alan Lipman. It`s just one thing after another with this woman. You know, first she purportedly tried to hire a landscaper to murder her husband. Police have done nothing about that. They supposedly tried to do some kind of sting operation that backfired on them when she called the cops.
Now her husband is accusing her of having an affair and exchanging sexual text messages after Kyron`s disappearance. I mean, what`s the other possibility? Could there be a witch hunt for this woman and this stuff is being made up?
LIPMAN: Well, there certainly could be a witch hunt, but let`s look at the facts. You know, beginning from very early on in this relationship, after Desiree left -- Desiree left right after Kyron was born. So once Kaine was taking care of Kyron as a full-time dad, Terri stepped in. And it appears that, from the reports I`m getting from Portland, Terri became more and more jealous of Kyron being the son of Desiree rather than being her own child.
After the birth of Kiara and her postpartum depression, that did seem to ramp up a little bit. But if this information about Cook is true, it provides a much more base, common, frequently seen motivation, which is the design of a thrice divorced woman to remove her current husband from the picture.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Peggy, Missouri, your question or thought? Thank you, Doctor. Peggy, Missouri, your question or thought.
CALLER: What more is done about investigating the father? He also got involved with her, you know, when was married to another woman. There`s a third child in there. Nobody is investigating the timeline where he`s at. I mean, just seems to be a lot of speculation and less on facts.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I agree. Mike Brooks, remember, Terri had purportedly accused him of having an affair, which was never been established.
BROOKS: No, it`s never been established, Jane. You know, there`s rumor and some innuendo, yes, it happened, but we really cannot say for sure. But as an investigator what you do is, as in this particular case, you try to eliminate everyone closest to the little boy, Kyron, who`s been missing since June 4. And I know that apparently Desiree young and also Kaine Horman have both taken and passed polygraphs. And they`ve done extensive investigation into them.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Stay right there. When we come back, did Terri try to abduct...
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KAINE HORMAN, FATHER OF KYRON: Somewhere, hopefully with someone taking care of him, and he`s protected and safe. And that`s -- whether or not that`s what actually happened, I can`t branch predict every other thing that comes to my mind because I don`t want to.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: We`re following the explosive new allegations in the Kyron Horman case. His dad, who we just heard from right there, claims Kyron`s step-mom has been cheating on him since his son disappeared. Kaine also claims Terri had plans to abduct their 20- month-old daughter.
Michelle Sigona, briefly tell us about that abduction issue.
SIGONA: Well, basically, the contents said that she had tried to make contact with her daughter possibly at the day care. Also in addition the paperwork claims that she took pictures or that possibly Mr. Cook took pictures, just reading this over here, and that -- with his cell phone and that there were some Google addresses and things like that also searched on the particular cell phone that she may have been in violation of that particular order.
However, today her attorney is stating that she is not contesting that restraining order and that she`s also going to let her child and Kaine move back into the home.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Drew Findling, criminal defense attorney, this Mr. Cook has just been thrown into this with a court document. What should he do to protect himself legally so he doesn`t get sucked into this?
DREW FINDLING, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: The first thing he has to do is obviously retain counsel, and his counsel needs to determine whether or not he is a target, a subject, or merely a witness to it. If he is merely a witness to it, he`s going to have a difficult time explaining the innuendo of him not participating in any type of investigation. If he`s a suspect or a target, then he really doesn`t have to participate in the investigation.
Most likely he`d find out he`s only a witness, at which point he has to share information. Otherwise, he`ll fall under the watchful eye of law enforcement in a split second.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, Mike Brooks, you heard Michelle Sigona say that she spoke to a Michael Cook who had gotten involved after the child`s disappearance. You know, he could have been just trying to help out, trying to help find the child.
This kind of thing has happened before. In the Casey Anthony case, there were people who were looking for little Caylee who ended up involved, purportedly -- it hasn`t been proven obviously -- with George Anthony.
BROOKS: Well, yes. But we haven`t heard their name come up anywhere on any witness list at least that I`ve seen in the Casey Anthony trial or in any -- or any court documents, where we have with this Michael Cook.
What is his involvement in this? We doesn`t know for sure. All we know is the information that we have from the court documents.
And you know, Jane, that information about Terri going to the gym came on January -- on June 28, before she was served with the papers. And subsequently, in those papers, one of the areas where she is restrained from coming and looking for the child is the Edge Gym. It`s also right in the court papers.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. And let me get this in. Two grocery store chains have turned over surveillance video from the day Kyron vanished. One of them, a Fred Meyer store, is five miles from Kyron`s school. The other store, Albertson`s, 14 miles from the school. Investigators hope the tapes, the videos will help them construct a detailed timeline of Terri`s whereabouts that day.
So that`s interesting, briefly, Michelle, that they`re looking at this in terms of possible movements of Terri? I don`t know.
SIGONA: Absolutely. I do know that early on, investigators did confirm to me that they were pulling surveillance and asking or requesting surveillance from many locations, Jane, including going out and tracking down some of these leads which one did come in West Virginia over the weekend. I spoke with the FBI and the local authorities.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hang in there. On the other side of the break, we`re extending this. It`s too big.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HLN HOST: Was Mel Gibson caught on tape spewing demonic death threats? Gibson`s ex-girlfriend says the Hollywood mega star punched her teeth out and threatened to kill her. Tonight: a new horrifying phone call. Is this Mel on the other end of the phone? You will hear it here.
Those stories in just a moment. But first breaking news in the disappearance of Kyron Horman: the 7-year-old`s dad is hurling shocking allegations against his estranged wife Terri. Kaine Horman says she`s been cheating on him with his high school friend. And Kaine says Terri also planned to kidnap their 20-month-old daughter Kiara. It`s all part of a bizarre contempt of court motion.
How do these stunning revelations impact the search for little Kyron? Michelle Sigona, give us the headlines on this one, two, three. Recap it quick.
MICHELLE SIGONA, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER: Basically what`s going on here is that allegedly Terri Horman had a sexual relationship with one of Kaine Horman`s childhood friends by the name of Michael Cook which is stated in these papers. And just reading through because there are a lot of information, Jane, it states in here that police have clarified with interviews with Mr. Cook. So it appears they have in fact interviewed him and have obtained his cell phone and a lot of information and evidence to be able to support these particular claims in this paperwork and have presented that to Kaine Horman.
That`s why the paperwork was issued number one.
Number two: that Terri Horman may be in violation of the restraining order by trying to reach out to her child and also by sharing contents of the sealed restraining order with a party, possibly Michael Cook.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Leslie, Michigan, your question or thought, ma`am.
LESLIE, MICHIGAN (via telephone): Hi Jane.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hi.
LESLIE: One thing bothers me that Kyron`s biological mother said on TV that she knew the stepmom a long time ago had been a liar. But if she had doubts about the stepmom, then why did she allow her take care of her son for seven years?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, that`s an excellent question, Dr. Alan Lipman.
DR. ALAN LIPMAN, PROFESSOR OF PSYCHIATRY AND BEHAVIORAL SCIENCE: Well, here`s what I know about the case though i`ll tell you something, I think it`s a superb question. And I also suspect there`s a lot that we don`t know about the communication between the two of them over the period of time that Desiree was in Canada and Terri was here getting to know Kaine and so forth.
But we do know this. Desiree, Mike has said she`s passed a polygraph. While polygraphs have questionable admissibility and we have to recognize that. Nonetheless, it is somewhat supportive.
Secondly, she had a severe kidney disorder. And so she was quite ill, and that prevented her at times from being able to take care of the child.
Now, these are mitigating questions but it still leaves the question of -- the two of them were interacting. I spoke with someone in Portland today who said they were interacting on Terri`s Facebook page. There was some kind of relationship between the two of them. So it does leave a question as to why she would leave him in Terri`s care.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Ok, you answered a question.
JAYNE WEINTRAUB, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: She`s still an ex- wife.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jayne Weintraub -- go ahead.
WEINTRAUB: Sorry. She`s still an ex-wife. And I`m sorry but ex- wives, when something happens, you just have no idea what the real story is and we can`t pretend to know. But I think --
LIPMAN: You know, all generalizations --
(CROSS TALKING)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: One at a time.
LIPMAN: All generalizations, including this one. We really need to exercise caution about. There are specific facts here --
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Let her make the comment though. Jayne, finish your thought.
LIPMAN: What is the point?
WEINTRAUB: The point is -- that really needs to be made about lack of cooperation is really important and it`s there on our Constitution --
LIPMAN: From who?
WEINTRAUB: From me. Because the people out there --
LIPMAN: Lack of cooperation from who?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: One at a -- ok guys, I`m going to have to bring out the big gavel. You know what that looks like, ok.
WEINTRAUB: The court of public opinion is very different from the court of law and we have to respect and understand that while somebody might not publicly comment has nothing to do with whether or not they committed a crime or didn`t commit a crime.
As a matter of fact, our courts say you can`t even infer anything from the lack of cooperation. So let`s be mindful and remember that our Constitution is the framework of our court system.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Once you start talking about that -- we all love the constitution.
(CROSS TALKING)
LIPMAN: I`m in complete agreement with you about that. The problem -- the problem with that response is that it does not address the other aspects of Terri`s behavior. Why it is that according to the authorities, not just according to rumor, she hired or attempted to hire a landscape gardener to kill her husband.
WEINTRAUB: That was two years ago.
LIPMAN: Why it is that in any -- hang on, this is now my response -- That in any interview that we`ve seen, someone who loves her child, even her stepchild, rather than showing any remorse, any care, seems to be showing only an attempt to avoid all information. And thirdly, if this Cook information is true -- a big if -- was actually acting in a way that was remarkably extraordinarily in her own interest.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I have to go back to Drew Findling. I really do not understand why police are doing nothing, considering everything that`s come out. They`ve got to know that this is hitting the press. This is a public document. Are they under the gun now to do something, to take some action?
WEINTRAUB: Probable cause is a far cry from having evidence beyond a reasonable doubt.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And you`re not Drew Findling. Drew Findling.
WEINTRAUB: Oh, I`m sorry.
DREW FINDLING, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Here`s the deal. We`re referring to a civilly crafted document by paid counsel to advocate for their client in a domestic dispute. What law enforcement is doing is undoubtedly they`re looking for evidence, because we haven`t talked about evidence yet.
With due respect to everybody we`re doing a whole lot of generalizing from every standpoint here. But law enforcement is trying to make sure that there is integrity in the evidence that they seek.
They`re looking for forensic evidence; they`re looking for witness interviews. And this is the Jack Bauer generation. There are videos of everything and that`s what they`re doing. And they could care less about a lot of the subjects that we`re talking about right now.
And I bet you Mike is going to agree with that.
MIKE BROOKS, HLN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: I`m going to agree with Drew. They`re letting everything play out, Jane. There`s no rush right now. Is anyone in danger right now?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: We don`t know. This little boy, God willing he`s alive.
BROOKS: If you recall what the captain said during one of the press conferences, the community is not in danger. So they know more than what we`re telling us.
LIPMAN: I agree with Mike and Drew. And the only thing I would note is that law enforcement, once Kaine filed the restraining order put out pictures of her truck as fliers and also of course included in the restraining order the information about the gardener. So they are providing some information.
(CROSS TALKING)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I have to leave it right there. I promise you, panel, we are going to be back tomorrow. Viewers, we`re going to stay on top of this. You know there`s going to be a crazy development tomorrow. So we`re going to be back here talking about this disappearance in hopes of finding this child.
Thank you, panel.
Switching to another completely wild story, Colton Harris-Moore`s life on the run has come to a screeching halt. The 19-year-old has allegedly been taunting cops for years. But finally, he was caught and yes, he was barefoot -- true to form, that`s because he`s the barefoot bandit. That`s the term given him by the press since the suspect has been shoeless, apparently, during his burglaries alleged once again shoeless to very dramatic end. He did not go down without a fight.
This young man suspected in dozens if not hundreds of thefts, born in Washington State; authorities say he covered thousands of miles traveling through these eight states including Nebraska, Iowa, Illinois and Indiana. But apparently it all ended in the Bahamas.
He flew a plane allegedly from the Midwest all the way to the Bahamas, where he crash-landed it. Then he stole a boat, a 40-foot pleasure boat apparently. And then they shot out the tanks of that boat during a dramatic high-speed chase.
Joining me with all the action is my fantastic panel. Got to start out with Travis Mayfield, KOMO news radio reporter, my good buddy; Travis, what went down yesterday?
TRAVIS MAYFIELD, REPORTER, KOMO NEWS RADIO: Oh, my gosh, Jane. This was the dramatic ending of a movie. And as you know this is probably going to be a movie. Colton Harris` mom is already talking about a movie, a book. This was exactly the kind of ending she and probably entertainment execs in Hollywood want.
As you say, authorities shot out this boat engine. They took him into captivity. Then they paraded him in front of the press. You noted that he was barefoot at the time.
We have just learned he is going to be charged in a Bahamian court tomorrow. Then the big question here in Seattle is how soon could he be extradited here, because police and people and prosecutors here in Washington State, they say he started this crime spree here and they want a piece of him next.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I`ve got to say, my big issue tonight, did somebody breed a bandit? Colton`s mom has recently enlisted Courtney Love`s entertainment lawyer to negotiate a book deal. And she is hotly defending her son.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was going to get him flying lessons. And if he taught himself how to fly a plane, I`m very proud.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh, my gosh.
Josh Flickner, you knew Colton. He would come to your grocery store and you actually turned him in for using a stolen credit card. I understand you`re talking to us from Washington.
What is this kid like? Why is he attracting 60,000 Facebook fans and becoming a cult hero? Josh? All right, Travis. How about throwing it at you?
MAYFIELD: Yes. I mean, he has this debonair air about him. First of all, he`s a reasonably good looking kid. He`s been able to evade the FBI since he escaped from a youth home back in 2008. I mean this kid has been -- he taught himself to fly, he taught himself to steal boats. I mean allegedly all of these things.
And then the sheer audacity of what he`s doing is just remarkable. This is the stuff of movies. And that is why he`s become this cult hero. Almost a Robin Hood-like character, although if you ask any of the people who he -- who he has allegedly stolen from, they`ll say he`s not a Robin Hood, he`s just a common thief.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes and his mom, is a co-dependent enabler by praising her son for learning how to fly on his own even though by stealing a plane and flying it more than a thousand miles to crash land it in an island on the Bahamas he could have killed a whole lot of people. He`s reportedly stolen at least five planes.
Josh Flickner, I understand you are there sir now. Hello, Josh.
JOSH FLICKNER, VICTIM OF THE "BAREFOOT BANDIT": Yes, hello.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Ok. What is this guy like? That`s what we all want to know.
FLICKNER: Well, I think that the reason that he is so adored -- and I agree with you guys -- but also I think that it has to do just with the fact that people in this society love taking what isn`t theirs and they want what isn`t theirs and what they haven`t worked for.
And that`s what Colton has done during his spree is just take what isn`t his and take what he hasn`t worked for. And -- of course his mom wants to do a movie and a book deal because she doesn`t work either. So she wants what isn`t hers. And what her son has stolen from other people, she wants some of that too.
As far as what he was like when he was younger before he was on the run, he would come in the store with his mom. And he always looked really suspicious, always acted like he was watching us watch him, because he acted so suspicious. And so of course we kept an eye on him to make sure he wasn`t stealing candy bars. And I don`t know if he ever did or not. We never caught him.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, look, you know, he`s obviously a smart kid and it`s really sad that his intelligence has been perverted into a life of criminality. This kid you`re looking at, cops say he committed as many as 100 crimes over his lifetime. And now he`s caught he could serve anywhere from four to 12 years.
He`s in the Bahamas now. Is he going to jail there or is he going to jail in America? They`re fighting over that. We`re going to keep you posted.
And up next we`re going to Mel Gibson, it`s an outrageous story. We`re going to play tape purportedly of Mel. You can decide if it`s really his voice. This is unbelievable stuff, really crazy.
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VELEZ-MITCHELL: A horrifying, furious rant caught on tape. Is Hollywood A-Lister Mel Gibson the screaming, raving madman, just fuming and venting on a newly released explosive audio recording?
Did Mel in complete insane rage verbally abuse, berate and threaten to kill his terrified ex-girlfriend? Radar Online has released a phone conversation that they claim is between Mel and the mother of his 8- month-old daughter, Oksana Grigorieva.
Listen to this. It will shock you.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
OKSANA GRIGORIEVA, MEL GIBSON`S WIFE: You almost killed us. Did you forget?
MEL GIBSON, ACTOR: The last three years has been a (EXPLETIVE DELETED) gravy train for you.
GRIGORIEVA: You were hitting a woman with a child in her hand. You, what kind of man is that hitting a woman when she is holding a child in her hands? Breaking her teeth twice in her face. What kind of man is that?
GIBSON: Oh, you are all angry now. You got what (EXPLETIVE DELETED) deserve.
GRIGORIEVA: You`re going to get it, you know what? You`re going to answer, one day boy, you are going to answer?
GIBSON: What, what are you threatening me?
GRIGORIEVA: Nothing, nothing. I`m not the one to threaten.
GIBSON: I`ll threaten, I`ll put you in the (EXPLETIVE DELETED) rose garden, you (EXPLETIVE DELETED).
(END AUDIO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Believe me, that isn`t the worst of it, not by a long shot. This tape is so disturbing it`s difficult to listen to. You have got to hear the rest of the tirade. It is posted on RadarOnline.com when Oksana calmly says, quote, "You need medication" unquote.
The man responds by psychotically screaming, "You need an (EXPLETIVE DELETED) bat in the side of the head, all right? How about that?" He is screaming so loudly at the top of his lungs, he got so enraged that at one point all he can do is pant heavily.
This seems to be on the phone a dangerous man. CNN has confirmed Oksana says, yes, that is me on the tape. She says -- she says the other voice is Mel. However, she is insisting she is not the one who leaked the recording.
Now, we`ve reached out to Mel Gibson. So far he has not commented.
Straight out to my fantastic expert panel: family law attorney, Jennifer Brant; psychiatrist, Dr. Alan Lipman back with us. And we begin with Dylan Howard, senior executive editor for RadarOnline.com. You got this amazing exclusive. Tell us all about it.
DYLAN HOWARD, SENIOR EXECUTIVE EDITOR, RADARONLINE.COM: Well Jane, this could be the smoking gun that investigators need to find Mel Gibson, that he does have a case to answer regarding the domestic violence assault on January 6th that Oksana Grigorieva claims because not only does Mel Gibson admit that he hit Oksana Grigorieva because, quote, "She (EXPLETIVE DELETED) deserved it". There are two death threats.
One, he threatens to bury her in the rose garden of his Malibu mansion. The second as we heard, he threatens to throw a bat against her head.
Now, this is very serious stuff and we recorded exclusively today that the police investigating this claim have subpoenaed what they believe to be the audio recordings from court and they currently are under seal. And they`re on a DVD that was tendered to the court as part of a bitter custody battle between Mel and Oksana over their 8-month-old daughter Lucia (ph).
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, the man on the tape allegedly, purportedly Mel Gibson also launched into a racist tirade after becoming furious over an outfit his girlfriend was wearing. Check this one out.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
GIBSON: You go out in public and it`s a (EXPLETIVE DELETED) embarrassment to me. You look like a (EXPLETIVE DELETED) on heat and if you get raped by a pack of (EXPLETIVE DELETED) it will be your fault, all right? Because you provoked it. You are provocatively dressed all the time with your fake (EXPLETIVE DELETED) you feel you have to show off.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Ok. Here is my big issue tonight. Is Mel Gibson -- if this is him on the tape -- is he a rage-aholic alcoholic?
Four years ago Mel got a DUI where he let loose a furious anti- Semitic rant. He was boozing then and he later apologized.
Dr. Alan Lipman, I can tell you as a recovering alcoholic myself with 15 years of sobriety that if you don`t work a program, you don`t stay sober, you can get dry. But you`re not emotionally sober.
LIPMAN: That`s right.
How would you diagnose? Some people have even suggested maybe he has some kind of mental illness if this is him like bipolar.
LIPMAN: I don`t think it`s bipolar. Because I think if it were bipolar --
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Can you speak up? I can`t hear you.
LIPMAN: It would not be bipolar. But I do think that what we`re talking is something we`ve seen before in cases like this. Two things: this is a -- whoever this man is, is a raging narcissist in the midst of narcissistic rage. Jealous, absolutely needing to control her to the point that he says take those things out of your own body. And viciously attacking -- you know, we`ve seen this once before in the civil case, of course, thinking back quite some time ago of O.J. Simpson.
Now, with this man, it sounds as if that is combined with alcohol. So that when the narcissist is filled with alcohol, so that when the narcissist is filled with alcohol, the rage comes out.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Ok. Hang --
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VELEZ-MITCHELL: I am outraged; outraged about the millions and millions of gallons of oil spewing into the Gulf. And, you know, I want heads to roll at BP and in the U.S. government.
Well, guess what? There`s an ISSUES viewer Les Shaw who agrees with me. Here is one of our viewers going off on his own rant. Check it out.
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LES SHAW, VIEWER: Every cent that is given to the oil -- the people that are affected by this or to the just the nature in general should come out of the pockets of BP. It shouldn`t come out of the pockets of individuals. There should be no telethon for it.
It should be the government saying, ok, well, you`ve caused this problem. Every cent your company owns goes towards cleaning this up.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Les, thank you for sending in your ISSUES rant.
Are you as outraged about an issue that you see on this show? Send us a video rant. It can be about any story that gets your blood boiling. Send your ISSUES video rant to Jane@CNN.com; 30 seconds or less, we will air it if it`s passionate enough.
Back to Mel.
Mel also allegedly threatened to bury Oksana purportedly if it`s him, in the rose garden. Listen to this astounding clip.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You`re going to answer one day, boy, you`re going to answer.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Huh? What?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Nothing, nothing. I`m not the one to threaten.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`ll threaten, i`ll put you in the (EXPLETIVE DELETED) rose garden, you (EXPLETIVE DELETED).
(END AUDIO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jennifer Brandt, you`re the family law attorney. By the way, that`s courtesy of RadarOnline that clip. The custody battle is still raging. Could, if they determine this is, in fact, him, could he lose all access to the child they were fighting over?
JENNIFER BRANDT, FAMILY LAW ATTORNEY: Absolutely. It is clear from one thing. If this is Mel Gibson, he does not want to have anything to do with his baby daughter because if he did, he would not be acting like that.
Any right-minded judge hearing this tape would be so upset by it and outraged and would prevent him from seeing the child. Any visitation he would have with her to be supervised and he would have to be in some type of anger management program, some serious counseling to get rid of this rage and these issues that he has before he`s left alone with this child especially if he is abusive towards the child`s mother.
LIPMAN: And substance abuse.
BRANDT: He just killed himself as far as the custody battle goes as far as I`m concerned.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now Dylan Howard, again, this is your exclusive Radar Online. He was reportedly just dropped by his long time very powerful talent agency. Is there any reference in the tape to career?
DYLAN HOWARD, RADARONLINE: Well, it coincided with the announcement that unfortunately his long time agent had passed away. And Ari Emanuel, who, of course, is the brother of Rahm Emanuel, the chief of staff at the White House who runs William Morris Endeavor Entertainment finally decided to pull the pin on his representation of Mel Gibson.
But you have to ask the question, can Mel Gibson recover from this? Given that he has ostracized so many demographics now. He`s referred to blacks as the "n" word. He refers in one tape to Latinos as wetbacks. He offended Jews in 2006. And quite clearly he`s going to offend the majority of society in these rants.
It begs the question, what will the movie-going public -- will they go and see him in any future projects? And I think the answer at the moment is most definitely no.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And he also offended women, if it`s him. I mean some of the most stunning comments are directed at women and this person`s desire to control them.
Thank you for joining me. You can`t control us. You`re watching ISSUES.
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