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Jane Velez-Mitchell
Allegations Surround Step-Mom of Missing Boy
Aired July 13, 2010 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST (voice-over): Tonight, secrets exposed. Mind-numbing new allegations rain down on Kyron Horman`s step-mom. She was the last person to see little Kyron alive. Now shocking new reports claim she planned to kidnap her own daughter. Tonight, while the world was searching for little Kyron, was his step-mom starting a secret affair and sexting her lover? Is this woman hiding bigger secrets?
And tonight, an uproar over the deadly wild horse roundup in Nevada. The Humane Society of the United States now demanding a permanent moratorium on these horrific horse gatherings.
Plus, has Mel Gibson truly gone off the deep end? Yet another demonic rant has just been released, allegedly between Gibson and his ex- girlfriend. We`re talking racial slurs, death threats, "F"-bombs galore. Has this guy lost his mind?
ISSUES starts now.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight, after stunning new allegations, Terri Horman`s world appears to be crashing down around her. Has she been carrying on a torrid secret affair while her little stepson, Kyron, is missing?
Terri has been the sole focus of this investigation. Now she`s facing explosive new allegations from her estranged husband, Kaine.
Kyron vanished almost a month and a half ago on June 4. His dad, Kaine, claims just weeks later his wife, Terri, began an affair with this man, Kaine`s high school friend, Michael Cook. She reportedly sent him hundreds of sext messages and several photos of herself, reportedly engaged in graphic sexual activity.
Michael Cook acknowledges, quote, "inappropriate communication" with Terri. But this guy denies having sex with her. Here he is before the allegations were made public.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAEL COOK, FRIEND OF KAINE HORMAN: It`s only reasonable to assume that people would speculate and become suspicious of Terri. But it doesn`t mean that she had anything to do with it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Kaine is also accusing Terri of trying to abduct their 20-month-old daughter. Now, this is the very same woman who allegedly tried to hire a hit man to kill her husband.
Kaine and Kyron`s biological mom and dad [SIC] both say Terri was involved in little Kyron`s disappearance. But police have not named Terri a suspect. Let me repeat that. They have not named Terri a suspect. Will these new bombshells finally cause Terri to crack?
Give me a holler. What`s your theory on this crazy case: 1-877-JVM- SAYS. That`s 1-877-586-7297.
Straight out to my fantastic expert panel, but first to KATU reporter Dan Tilkin, who is following this whole drama in Portland.
Dan, you`ve actually come face to face with Terri, the step-mom. What is the very latest?
DAN TILKIN, REPORTER, KATU: Well, the very latest is coming out of the Multnomah County court, where the two lawyers, two sides in this, came together to talk about this latest contempt hearing. Now, we`ve learned that Terri Horman is now asking for money to be paid by Kaine Horman before she will move out of -- move out of her house.
Kaine Horman is saying, "I`m not going to give you anything unless you start talking." And that is the very latest that`s just come out of court just this afternoon.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: That is a true stunner! Oh, my God!
Mike Brooks, I`ve got to go to you. Every time I think I`ve been completely shocked in this case, something even more shocking comes up. She is demanding money before she leaves her marital home?
MIKE BROOKS, HLN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: What`s she asking money for? She`s not asking for child support, because she doesn`t have any of the children. So I don`t -- she has no standing at all to be asking for any kind of monetary compensation. For what?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let`s go back to this Michael Cook. OK. We know he went to high school with Kyron`s dad, Kaine. We also know this Michael Cook helped organize the first vigil for Kyron. He and Terri -- this is important -- he and Terri reportedly did not meet until after the boy vanished. Check this out.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COOK: Sure, it would make sense that people would speculate that, that the public would speculate, that the media would speculate. But Terri is a mom. These are my friends, and they`re -- they`re community members that are missing their child, and that`s -- that`s really all that matters right now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: We`ve reached out to Michael Cook repeatedly, have not heard back. Police say Terri`s, quote, "sexual overtures" to Michael were similar to those she made to a landscaper she allegedly tried to hire to kill her husband.
Again, Michael admits to inappropriate communication with Terri but denies they had sex.
I`ve got to go to Michelle Sigona. You`ve actually interviewed and talked to Michael Cook. What do you make of this guy? I think the best thing going for him is that he did not meet her until after the child disappeared. So he may have been sucked in by her because he felt sorry for her. But it doesn`t sound like he had anything to do at all with this child`s disappearance.
MICHELLE SIGONA, INVESTIGATIVE JOURNALIST: You`re exactly right, Jane. And from what Michael told me -- we had played a little bit of phone tag and then I finally was able to sit down and have a conversation with him over the phone on July the 5th.
And he said that he and Kaine connected, and he connected with Kaine`s family, along with a few other high school friends, after Kyron went missing. They had wanted to get together prior to that for about eight or nine months, but then as soon -- their schedules just weren`t connecting. But as soon as Kyron went missing, everyone pulled together, and that`s when a lot of the community events were organized and things of that nature.
He really started getting out there to put the word out about Kyron. Today on Michael -- on Michael`s Facebook page he still has a picture up of Kyron as a profile picture, and he`s still a friend of Kaine Horman on Facebook.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Pat Brown, let me ask you. Do you think that this man, Michael Cook, got sucked in by somebody who might have said, "Hey, I`m being framed. Can you believe what`s happening to me?" And just out of sympathy, might have gotten involved with her? And maybe she needed a shoulder to cry on. He provided it, and one thing led to another?
PAT BROWN, CRIMINAL PROFILER: Well, one could say that, but what kind of friend is Michael to Kaine? I mean, this is supposed to be -- his friend is Kaine, and yet he goes in there and has a sexual thing with his wife? Well, what kind of guy is he? If he thinks that she`s innocent, why is he helping her make an idiot of herself and making herself look worse to the public and worse to the police by showing absolutely no interest in Kyron`s disappearance because she`s so busy sexting him?
BROOKS: Thank you.
BROWN: So I think he isn`t anybody`s friend.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, Dan Tilkin...
SIGONA: Alleged...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Go ahead, Michelle.
SIGONA: I was just going to say, Jane, allegedly when she was served those particular -- that particular restraining order and the rest of the paperwork, he went over there. And that`s when -- it says, according to the court paper documents, that he took pictures of the court order, of that sealed restraining order.
And so that`s a big player in this. And that`s really, you know, why Terri could be in a lot of trouble, for sharing that information with an outside party.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Darren Kavinoky, criminal defense attorney. So if it`s true that she shows him the sealed restraining order, and he photographs and Google maps the address where Kaine has fled to with their baby daughter, could he face any legal repercussions, Michael Cook?
DARREN KAVINOKY, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes. It`s probably going to be more focused on her.
And I hope I`m able to earn back my nickname of "the voice of reason" on this.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let`s see.
KAVINOKY: I`ve got to take a step back from all this. Give me a chance, Jane. I really am concerned about this, because we`re talking about these allegations that she -- that she perhaps tried to hire hit man and that she has something to do with this disappearance. We don`t have any evidence of this. And of course, she`s already been tried and convicted in the court of public opinion.
But as I`m taking all of this in, I`ve got to feel like, if they really have the goods, we wouldn`t be talking about this now, looking at her walking around as a free woman. We`d be looking at her behind bars. So something is amiss here. It just isn`t feeling right to me.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Dan Tilkin, you as a reporter, an intrepid one at that, confronted Terri Horman in a parking garage, and she refused to answer your questions. So let`s listen to part of that confrontation.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TILKIN: Do you know where Kyron is?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hey.
TILKIN: Terri, do you know where Kyron is?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You`re on private property.
TILKIN: Desiree and your husband are saying that you know where Kyron is. Do you know? Will you tell the world something? Can you please tell the world something?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Dan, good work there. Pat on the back. You deserve it. What do you make of the encounter with her? What do you think about the way in which Terri reacted to you?
TILKIN: Well, it`s frustrating, because she doesn`t give us an answer either way, positive or nature. If, as your people are saying, that people believe that she is, you know, a suspect here, say you are or say you are not. We`re trying to get some answer from her, one way or the other, and instead we got silence as she turned and walked away.
I tried emailing her. I got four different email addresses for her. I`ve been trying to email her for the last few weeks. We`ve been trying to call her. Absolutely nothing. We`ve been camping at the bottom of her -- of her house, giving her a chance to speak and tell her side of the story. And so far there`s been absolutely nothing coming out of her or out of her camp. And now she`s got...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right.
BROOKS: Jane, it sounds like at least her defense attorney is doing his job now by not letting his -- his client run off at the keyboard, if you will. You know?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes.
BROOKS: He`s doing the right thing. Don`t say a word, period.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Listen. On the other side of this, I`m going to talk to a buddy of mine, Victoria Taft. She`s the host of "The Victoria Taft Show" in Portland. And she is taking it all in, and she`s going to tell us how the people of Portland are reacting to this really bizarre story that has really captured the nation, indeed the world`s attention.
Everyone, stay right where you are.
Was this woman, Terri Horman, sexting instead of searching for her stepson? And we`re taking your calls on this. They`re lining up. Give me a holler: 1-877-JVM-SAYS. That`s 1-877-586-7297.
Plus, has Mel Gibson totally, completely lost it? Is he truly Mad Max? We`re going to play his newest alleged threatening tape. And you will not believe it! It`s a mind-blower.
But first, a precious missing child. An alleged hit man and now a purported kidnapping plot? Are the walls closing in on Kyron`s step-mom?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TILKIN: Do you know where Kyron is?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hey.
TILKIN: Terri, do you know where Kyron is?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You`re on private property.
TILKIN: Desiree and your husband are saying that you know where Kyron is. Do you know?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DESIREE YOUNG, KYRON`S MOTHER: Mothers have instincts. And unfortunately, I had feelings about this when I got the phone call.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Is Terri Horman, the step-mom, out looking for little Kyron, trying to clear her name, or is she hunkered down, hiding from reporters?
Consider this: if she knows Kyron will never be found, she knows there`s no need to look for him. And that is just a horrific reality, if - - if, if -- she knows that.
Pat Brown, do you think her alleged affair was a way to sort of get comfort and distraction from this nightmare? Sometimes people turn to sexual activity, even though the guy says they didn`t have sex. But as a distraction.
BROWN: Yes. No. I think -- I think she`s an attention-getter. She wants that person in her life. And she also may want to use him, as we see him photographing those papers. I`m not sure what her whole plan is here.
I want to comment on what you said about her not looking for Kyron. I find that in a lot of cases where a person is involved in the crime, they`re very annoyed when other people keep looking for that child, because what`s the point? Why can`t we just go on with our lives? I mean -- because they know that child is not around anymore, and it`s kind of redundant to them. So...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well...
BROWN: ... want to go on and do what they want to do.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Once again, she is not a person of interest or a suspect officially according to authorities.
Victoria Taft, host of "The Victoria Taft Show" in Portland, you and I have chatted so many times about many stories. What is Portland making of this craziness?
VICTORIA TAFT, TALK SHOW HOST: Well, first of all, we know that a child is missing, that we`re all hoping to be able to find this child alive. And hope is waning, obviously. So we`re trying to keep that at the forefront.
The other thing is we have this entire circus of this family being splayed out. The stories upon revealing stories about how dysfunctional this family was, on the pages of the newspapers, on television every night. And this is just the stuff of tabloids.
When I found out from Dan Tilkin during your show, Jane, that she went into court and had the audacity, the absolute audacity to ask for money, I said to myself, "She`s certifiable." She`s -- I have to tell you, not legally certifiable.
This is -- this is a woman -- and Pat Brown, you rocked on my show today, and thank you very much for coming on. And Pat Brown as well as Ann Rule (ph) said this today: this is a woman who thinks everything is about her. Everyone is just a cardboard cutout, a little cartoon character around their universe, which revolves around them. And that`s exactly what happened again in court today. Asking for money? You`ve got to be kidding me.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, it is pretty bizarre.
Barbara, California, your question or thought, ma`am.
CALLER: Hi, Jane. We watch your program every day.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Thank you.
CALLER: And I watched the stepmother being hounded by the reporter, and you had it on yesterday. And he ended up asking her, "Just tell me, do you know anything about Kyron`s disappearance? Just say yes or no. Yes or no."
And I know that she`s probably told just ignore the people, just keep quiet. But if that was me, Jane, I`d have to holler, "No. No, I don`t know anything about it." How could you keep quiet?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Dan, that -- that`s such an interesting...
KAVINOKY: Because we`re...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I understand -- I know her...
KAVINOKY: Her lawyer is telling her to keep quiet. She`s got to follow those instructions. As a matter of fact, it`s just amazing to me how everybody likes to Monday-morning quarterback these things and speculate and project and say, "Well, because she didn`t answer, therefore it must mean something else."
It probably means that she`s following her lawyer`s instructions to keep her mouth shut.
And as far as asking for money, maybe I`m missing something here, but this is a marriage that`s now splitting up. She`s moving out from the home. Asking for money to be able to support moving out of the home, that`s not so beyond the pale.
TAFT: Oh, Dan. What a Pollyanna.
KAVINOKY: That sort of thing has every day in family court.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Who is going to talk? Go ahead.
TAFT: Hi, it`s Victoria here. I mean, Dan, love you; mean it. You`re a very nice reporter. And you know, when the interviews come out after this whole thing is over and done, I`m sure she`ll come to you, because you`ve been so incredibly fair.
But I have to step in, and I have to say, "Wait a second here." A woman who has the audacity to go into court today and ask for money after she is the prime suspect in the disappearance of this child.
KAVINOKY: She`s not.
TAFT: Now I know it, and we all know why she hasn`t been. It`s because the authorities in this case have been trying to light backfires behind her, to turn up the heat, to smoke out this woman, because they know she knows something. Maybe she didn`t do it, but she knows who did or she knows where this child is. She knows something.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let me go to Dan Tilkin. You`re the reporter there on the ground. Have you been able to talk -- any police sources and get some sense of why they have been so silent in this case.
TILKIN: Well, we`re getting -- there -- that`s a really good question, by the way, one we`ve been wrestling with for a long time.
And a lot of the information we`re getting is from sources, things that are not on the record that they do not want traced back. But I can echo what Victoria said, that they are definitely trying to turn up the heat on Terri Horman and shrink the circle around her both socially and legally, trying to ice late her from her support group, people that support her, and try to get her to crack, so to speak, to give up some type of information that will hopefully lead them to Kyron.
This -- all these civil proceedings, I`m being told by legal experts here, are being orchestrated by the district attorney`s office.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: In the actual court documents that the husband filed he quotes the police. In the other words, he`s not the one that went through her records and found out purportedly there was a sexting. That`s my understanding anyway. This is the police.
SIGONA: They have brought him everything forward. Each document, as you mention, Jane, in the restraining order and the recent ones, in everything, police have given him information to be able to make decisions, to be able to move forward with divorce proceedings, a restraining order. All of these new allegations, things of that nature, police have come to him, and that has been stated in the court paperwork.
So in a way, police sort of have a voice in this. The sheriff`s department has a voice in this but not directly from the horse`s mouth.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: It`s a fascinating game that`s being played. But as Victoria Taft said, there`s a precious child who`s missing at the center of it all. That`s what we care about. We want to find out what happened to little Kyron. And we will. We`ve got to.
Fabulous panel, stay right where you are. More on Kyron`s suspicious step-mom.
Plus Mel Gibson, oh, my gosh, accused of abusing his ex-girlfriend. We`re going to pay the tape, the newest tape that`s just come out and also ask the question, could her child and a dentist become star witnesses?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HORMAN: I saw him the day of the science fair that morning and was just really proud of him for his -- all the work he put into this project and gave each other a couple big hugs and just told him to have a great day at the fair.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: So many new accusations. And here is my big issue. Is all of this an elaborate squeeze play on Terri Horman? You`ve got the allegations of cheating, attempted abduction, contempt of court. That is in addition to the alleged murder-for-hire plot against her husband.
Still none of it has caused Terri to crack or change her story about waving good-bye to Kyron in the classroom or on the way to class.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
YOUNG: A long time. I know she`s lying.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: That`s the biological mother saying she believes Terri is lying. Police say Terri`s phone and bank card records show that she is being deceptive about what happened the day Kyron disappeared.
Tara, Florida, your question or thought, ma`am.
CALLER: Hi. I just -- I love your show.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Thank you.
CALLER: My question is, if she allegedly put a hit man out on her husband, could she have done the same thing to Kyron and actually followed through?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I`m going to throw it over to Mike Brooks. What are the possibilities here that you think police are considering?
BROOKS: You know, that`s always a possibility. I`m sure they`re looking at that.
But you know, you said the squeeze play, Jane. That`s exactly what they`re doing. As we talked yesterday, law enforcement is just letting this play out. There`s no hurry right now, because we heard early on in this case Captain Gates said there`s no danger to the community.
So they`re building a case. It takes probable cause to arrest her. They probably already have that. But why not go ahead and build your case?
You know, the one thing she has done that changed everything, she got a criminal defense attorney, not an attorney for the -- for her divorce, which she`s going to get later, but she got a criminal defense attorney.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They`re just letting it...
KAVINOKY: Hang on. Is there some kind of negative inference to be drawn because somebody...
BROOKS: No. I`m just...
KAVINOKY: ... is clearly the target in a criminal investigation? Of course she hired a criminal defense attorney!
BROOKS: She`s not a suspect. She`s not a person of interest.
KAVINOKY: Wouldn`t you?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: One at a time.
BROOKS: I`m saying, Darren...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`ll bring out the big gavel.
BROOKS: You know, Darren, I -- that`s -- she is the target. She`s not a suspect, no. And person of interest, I call it suspect-lite. I don`t even like the term. But I can tell you, she is a target, because as an investigator you look at the people closest.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hold on.
BROOKS: And who has not been cooperative with law enforcement?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Wait a second.
BROOKS: Terri Horman.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let me bring in this -- this angle here. She`s also accused of trying to abduct her own daughter, Kiara, on June 28. Court documents say she went to a local gym where Kaine has a membership. The gym has a daycare nursery where Kaine would leave Kiara while he worked out. Terri allegedly asked the receptionist to call her the next time he came in so she could, purportedly, according to Kaine, snatch the child from the daycare center. What do you make of that, Darren Kavinoky?
KAVINOKY: Well, I think that that`s total speculation. You know, and I say this somewhat tongue in cheek. It`s the stepmother who always gets a bad rap, whether it`s Cinderella or Snow White or, you know, all those evil stepmothers. But there`s no basis in fact. There`s no basis in fact to say that -- let`s assume that the phone call was made, and maybe that`s even disputed.
BROOKS: Darren, Darren, come on.
KAVINOKY: Come on!
BROOKS: It was June 28, Darren. It`s a good thing she hadn`t been served with those papers yet, because it was right before she was served. Otherwise, she`d be facing another charge.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Got to leave it right there. Fabulous panel, thank you so much for your analysis.
Are wild horses being kicked off their land? And are they dying in the process? We`re going to cover this outrageous story next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: A growing uproar over the U.S. government`s deadly wild horse roundup in Nevada. After seven wild horses died in one of these gatherings, the U.S. government has now suspended their helicopter-fueled efforts to remove these horses from their natural land.
Meantime, just moments ago, the Humane Society of the United States called for a moratorium on these roundups, citing the death of those seven mustangs from dehydration and a variety of injuries, charging this was totally predictable, given the extreme heat. Why is the U.S. government so hell-bent on getting these horses off public land despite the outcry that has really reached a national level at this point?
Now, some claim it`s to benefit ranchers who want graze their cattle. And there`s a Las Vegas TV station that has raised stunning questions about whether the roundups could be connected to a planned gas pipeline that is set to go through these western states. There`s a $3 billion, 700-mile pipeline that will purportedly transport natural gas from Wyoming to Oregon.
Now, critics claim -- and I say these are claims -- this project will cut through areas where wild horses and burros roam. Joining me now to talk about this is 17-time Emmy award winning investigative reporter, with KLAS, George Knapp.
George, what are you learning and what was your investigation about?
GEORGE KNAPP, KLAS INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER: Well, we`ve been looking at activities that might link BP to a whole bunch of things here in Nevada as well as examine the wild horse issue. Of course, Nevada is sort of the ground zero for the wild horse debate. We have more than half of the wild horses in our country here in our state, so we were looking for reasons for the latest roundups in northern Nevada.
And it sort of was coincidental the roundups are taking place in this vast area, half a million acres, where about several thousand horses are being moved. Happens to be that same area where this el Paso corporation is building a 700-mile-long pipeline. And we found out, a friend of mine, Mark Allen (ph), uncovered documents that showed that BP is one of the primary users that pipeline. They`re going to build this thing, that 700 miles is going to be six feet deep, eight feet wide. It has obvious implications, not only for horses, but also for other kinds of wildlife. BLM has said the two are completely unrelated. They note in the final environmental impact statement that there is nothing to do with wild horses. And I would ask, why not? If you`re building a project like that right through pristine areas, how can it not have affects, not only on horses, but other kinds of wildlife? For BLM not to even consider that, I think, is an abomination.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, let me say this: we contacted the players involved in this and I`ve gotten numerous statements. I`ve personally talked to a spokesman for BP and they told us, "BP has acquired some space to ship gas on the pipeline and el Paso is the operator of the pipeline and they would be responsible for providing you a response on any of the conditions surrounding the construction and operation of this pipeline."
El Paso said to the affiliate, our affiliate, KLAS, about the Ruby pipeline: "Ruby has never discussed or in any way advocated removal of horses or burros by the Bureau of Land Management o any other entity."
A spokesperson from the Department of the Interior says the report is false, but they say the station has, "Let their imaginations run wild."
We also reached out to the BLM national project manager and he told us he was instructed not to comment. He directed us to the press office in Nevada. And we just received statements in which the BLM basically said the Calico roundup was due to extreme overpopulation of the horses and "conducted because there is insufficient water."
However -- OK, that was a lot of disclaimers there. We want to get all sides, we want to be fair. However, I have to say on BLM`s own Web site, it acknowledges the pipeline would have a short-term impact to wild horses, livestock and wildlife during construction. So, I got to ask you, Lisa Bloom, again, it gets down to why are they so hell-bent on getting these horses out of this land?
BLOOM: Well, that`s the question. And you would think our own government representatives, here in the United States of America, would tell us the truth, Jane, when you call and ask them. I mean, we`ve been talking about this for months and hats off to you for covering this important story. These are beautiful wild animals. Why can`t we allow them to exist in pristine form in nature? We`ve heard the excuse there`s not enough water for them and yet, when they`re brought in, they`re perfectly healthy, when they`re brought in and penned, then they suffer from dehydration, after they`re in captivity. So, they really seem to have it backwards, when they`re out in the wild they are healthy, many of them get pregnant, they successfully give birth to foals when they`re in captivity, that`s when they tend to suffer, get dehydrated and even die.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, the Bureau of Land Management say it removes these horses for their own benefit. Critics say how are these horses benefiting when by the government`s only estimates -- are you sitting down people at home -- 36,000 horses are crammed in U.S. government holding pens, 36,000 horses, are crammed in U.S. government holding pens.
Madeleine Pickens, you are the founder of saving AmericasMustangs.org, you are also, I think you`d be very proud to mention, the wife of are also I think you would be proud to mention the wife of T. Boone Pickens, who is an oil tycoon. You have personally offered the government to take these horses off their hands and create a sanctuary for them. What has been your response?
PICKENS: It`s been difficult. I`ve been on this project for two years. I went to the Bureau of Land management two years ago and when they said they were going to euthanize all 30,000 horses, I said not on my life and the American people don`t want that to happen, let me create an eco sanctuary. Please convert the adjoining lands that are public lands convert them from cattle grazing to horse grazing, we could create a fenced-in sanctuary where the general public could come in and see these horses and enjoy them. Right now they have 30,000 horses left on the range maybe, and they`ve got, as you say, 36,000 in these holding pens and 11,000 of them butt to butt. And they still want to gather another 6,000 this year. It`s insanity and we need to respect the mustang as we do the bald eagle.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, is this -- is there a culture of coziness or even corruption between our government and big industry? Now, the Department of Interior -- this is complicated, but it`s important, it oversees oil rigs through the Mineral Management Services and also oversees the wild horses through the Bureau of Land Management. In the wake of the gulf oil disaster, the Interior Department has been under fire for allegedly allowing BP employees to fill out government inspection reports. Critics have accused the Interior Department of being more interested in serving the interest of big business than protecting public lands. A BLM official even said, on camera, "We are the Bureau of Land Management, not the Bureau of Wildlife, not the Bureau of Horses."
Lisa, what`s your reaction to that?
BLOOM: I`m horrified, Jane. These are beautiful, wild animals, who have the right to live in nature as they deserve. I mean, most of us look at them and see them as symbols of the American West, paintings are made of these horses. And yet we`re just going to corral 36,000 of them, let them get dehydrated, let them suffer and die, let them have stillborn fools? And why? I mean for what purpose? For what end? And why is our government not accountable to us?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: By the way, we invite officials from BP, el Paso, the Interior Department, anybody who is in any way, shape or form involved with this oil pipeline to come on our show. We want to be fair. We`ve been reaching out all day to everybody. We`re trying to really understand what is going on, here. And when I was speaking to the spokesperson for BP, which I spoke to for over 10 minutes, I mean, he`s like, well -- he basically explained that they`re not constructing this pipeline, they`re going to be one of numerous shippers, so he`s saying, why are you calling us? Well, obviously, the reason why critics have focused on BP is because of the oil spill and the environmental impact of the oil spill. George, thoughts?
KNAPP: That`s true. I`ll put it this way, here`s one way to focus on this: BLM, of course, will deny that the pipeline had anything to do with the Calico roundups. Look at the route, though, the route could have gone through an area of land that is already disturbed. It would have cost BP and the el Paso company a lot more money to build it that way, but it would have been much better for the horses, much better for wildlife and the environment. However, BLM is the one that signed off on the route that went right through the horse areas and I don`t think it`s an accident. I don`t think that they did the roundups specifically in order to make way for that pipeline. I think it was a two-fer, it was a bonus like finding an extra present under the Christmas tree.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well listen, I got to say that BLM is denying all of this saying they are removing these horses for their own benefit because there`s too many of them and they`re starving. Of course their critics are disputing that and all we can tell you is we can`t independently confirm any of this, but we know one thing, the horses cannot speak for themselves. And we Americans, who love our American West, and our history which was founded on the backs of horses need to speak up for America`s horses. Thank you, fantastic panel. Get involved, people.
I am losing sleep over this never-ending oil spill catastrophe. There is finally hope that this massive leak will be contained. But slick, black oil is still gushing into our gulf. ISSUES viewer Ryan is with me. He is over this whole thing. Check out his ISSUES rant, right now.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RYAN BASILIO, ISSUES VIEWER: I think that it`s time that the federal government just say no. You no longer have any more oil rights, mineral rights in the United States. You should no longer be able to get any profits from it. We will get someone who will actually fix the oil problem, will actually plug the leak, and you will have to pay for it in the end.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Ryan, thank you for sending in your ISSUES rant. Are you as outraged about an issue that you see on this show? Send us a video rant. It can be about any story that gets your blood boiling. Send your ISSUES video rant to jane@cnn.com, 30 seconds or less and we`re going to air the most passionate ones, live.
All right, we`re going to talk next about the barefoot bandit. Barefoot and busted. Today he was able to slip away from justice? Really? One last time. I don`t think so.
Plus, is Mel Gibson a rageaholic? Coming up we`re going to play the new, new, new alleged tape. It`s a bombshell filled with f-bombs and death threats, purportedly. We`re talking your calls, as well.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: The barefoot bandit pleads guilty. That`s tonight`s "Top of the Block." But first just, moments ago 19-year-old Colton Harris- Moore landed in Miami escorted by the FBI. He`s going to have his first court appearance tomorrow afternoon. It`s not known when he will eventual be transferred to Seattle where he is accused of a slew of crimes. Earlier he was in court in the Bahamas where he pled guilty for allegedly illegally landing a plane. So, I guess it`s not allegedly anymore, he pleaded guilty. He was sentenced to three months in jail or $300 fine. Harris- Moore he`s been on the run since 2008 when he escaped from juvie in Washington state. Since then he`s been connected to more than 100 burglaries and thefts across the United States, allegedly, and earned the nickname barefoot bandit by allegedly doing all of these crimes with no shoes on.
Now, he might have only gotten three months in the slammer from the Bahamian courts, but he`s likely to face a lot more jail time here in the United States. So hopefully, at least, he`ll get a pair of shoes if he ends up doing some time behind bars. That`s tonight`s "Top o` the Block."
Another vicious crazed, raving rant all caught on tape. The mother of Mel Gibson`s 8-month-old baby daughter, Russian musician and model, Oksana Grigorieva, is verbally attacked, berated and literally called every name in the book by a man flying off the handle into an insane rage. She says the mad man on the tape is Mel Gibson having a complete meltdown. This latest hate-filled rant is so out of control, peppered with so much profanity, it`s really hard to play and it`s tough to listen to, but listen to it. Here it is. It`s the latest one.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
MAN: What are you talking about you (EXPLETIVE DELETED) ignorant (EXPLETIVE DELETED)? I don`t understand you. You`re saying stupid (EXPLETIVE DELETED) . How dare you (EXPLETIVE DELETED) even insult me with some of the stupid reasoning you have? Your logic sucks because you`re a (EXPLETIVE DELETED) mentally deprived idiot. Don`t you get it?
WOMAN: Goodbye, Mel. The baby`s crying. I have to go.
MAN: Go look after my child.
WOMAN: She`s my child too.
MAN: Yeah, I know. Unfortunately, you (EXPLETIVE DELETED). I hope she doesn`t turn out like you.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh, boy. That from RadarOnline, by the way. The ex- couple`s bitter public battle is really heating up. Oksana has gotten a restraining order against Mel, you think, and says that he hit her while she was holding their baby in her arms knocking out her teeth. We have reached out to Mel`s camp. They have not responded. But "People" magazine is reporting a friend of Mel Gibson said he sought therapy to fix his relationship. The friend says Mel wanted to get, out of his "unhealthy relationship" peacefully and calmly, which is what he did. Really? If this is Mel Gibson on those tapes, is that peaceful and calm? I don`t want to see him angry then.
Straight out to my fantastic expert panel, former prosecutor Wendy Murphy. And she`s steamed up about this one. Psychiatrist, Dr. Janet Taylor and reporter for Howard 100 News on Sirius Satellite Radio Lisa G.
Lisa, I`m almost afraid to ask what is the very latest on this one.
LISA G, SIRIUS SATELLITE RADIO: Well, I just heard what you said, and can you say spin control, that the Gibson camp is trying-to-spin things in his favor? I mean, when I get angry, I go for a nice jog in Central Park. This is just amazing, the hatred that this man has inside. I mean, where does that come from, Jane? That`s in his soul.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, that`s what we have to figure out, why. Why is he doing this? We know has talked about a history of alcoholism. We`re going to get to that in a second. TMZ reports the L.A. County Sheriff`s Department wants to interview Oksana`s dentist who allegedly has photos of her teeth after she claims Mel broke them. Check this out.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
WOMAN: You almost killed us, did you forget?
MAN: The last three years has been a (EXPLETIVE DELETED) gravy train for you.
WOMAN: You were hitting a woman with a child in her hands. You, what kind of man is that hitting a woman when she is holding a child in her hands breaking her teeth twice in the face. What kind of man is that?
MAN: Oh, you`re all angry now.
WOMAN: You get to...
MAN: You got what you (EXPLETIVE DELETED) deserved.
WOMAN: You know what?
(END AUDIO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: TMZ also reports that authorities want to talk to Oksana`s 12-year-old son whose father is actor Timothy Dalton, because he may have witnessed some of these abusive tirades.
Wendy Murphy, could Mel Gibson go to jail?
WENDY MURPHY, FORMER PROSECUTOR: You know, he could and he should. I mean, come on, if this stuff isn`t worth jail time, what is? What do you have to do to a woman before you actually go to jail? And look, I`m assuming what she says is true because he admitted to knocking her teeth out. That, you know, what bothers me most about this case, Jame, is that he`s apparently being investigated, according to the sheriff`s department out there, for misdemeanor battery and child endangerment. That`s all well and good, but when you knock someone`s teeth out that`s a mayhem, it`s a felony, when you break body parts.
And I would also investigate him for hate crimes. Did you hear on the tape when he was telling her that she was a "b" word and a "c" word because she didn`t perform a sex act on the guy? He thought he -- this wasn`t his girlfriend, the mother of his child, this was his slave. And for that he should be prosecuted for hate crimes plus knocking her teeth out. The fact that he isn`t in jail yet, oh, what does that tell you?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yeah, everybody`s talking about, oh, he`s racist, which he appears to be, if this is him. He`s anti-Semitic, he hates everybody. Also, his attitude toward women. Let`s not forget that. His attitude toward women. He sounds totally misogynistic
Mary in Ohio, your question or thought, ma`am?
MARY, OHIO VIEWER: Hi, darling, Jane. Love you, dear.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh, thanks.
MARY: I read last night an interview that Mel gave -- I can`t remember exactly who with, but if you were to go Google...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: What did he say?
MARY: That he found out after his last bout with alcoholism and rehab that he has manic depression, which would make everything, you know, pretty understandable what he`s doing. It doesn`t make it an excuse, but if he`s not on medication, it brings back the whole...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right, on the other side of this we`ll talk to Dr. Janet Taylor, psychiatrist. Boy, do we need you. We`re going to analyze Mel Gibson. What is wrong...
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SAM RUBIN, KTLA REPORTER: Some people are going to welcome you back and other people are going to be like he should never come back.
MEL GIBSON, ACTOR: Why?
RUBIN: Because of what happened before.
GIBSON: What happened before?
RUBIN: The remarks that were attributed to you.
GIBSON: That were attributed to me that I didn`t necessarily make. OK. But, and I gather you have a dog in this fight.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh boy. My big issue tonight, has "Mad Max" gone mad. What`s wrong with Mel Gibson? Is he mentally ill?
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
MAN: You go out in public and it`s a (EXPLETIVE DELETED) embarrassment to me. You look like a (EXPLETIVE DELETED) on heat and if you get raped by a pack of (EXPLETIVE DELETED) it will be your fault. All right? Because you provoked it, you are provocatively dressed all the time with your fake (EXPLETIVE DELETED) you feel you have to show off.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Once again, that`s from RadarOnline. Mel has got a homophobic rant, anti-Semitic rants, racists rants, sexist rants, you name it, he appears to have shouted it. in some of those tirades, he was slurring his words in the past and he blamed alcohol, but in these recent tapes, Mel, if it is in fact Mel, does not seem to be drunk and Oksana says, "you`re insane, you need medication." Dr. Janet Taylor, what`s your diagnosis?
DR JANET TAYLOR, PSYCHIATRIST: Well, he`s got two problems. He`s got a personality problem. He`s aggressive, he`s controlling and he`s got a psychological problem with what we know is, certainly he`s been treated for alcoholism. I have not read that he has a history of manic depressive disorder, but clearly he is endangering other people around him and certainly the life of this innocent 8-month-old child. He needs help and he needs it right away.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Melissa in Tennessee, your question or thought?
MELISSA, TENNESSEE VIEWER: Yes, hi, Jane. I respect you and I watch your show all the time. It`s wonderful to speak with you.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Thank you.
MELISSA: However, in this instance, we all know what Mel is -- from what we see on TV, we know he has an alcohol problem. Thank god that I`ve been sober for years now and I can understand that issue, right there. And I know that alcohol can make you crazy; however, I`m wondering about this woman. If this was such a horrible thing for her, why is she going on TV about it? Why didn`t she take her child to a safe house? Why is she showing herself on television?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right, you`re making good points, there. Wendy Murphy, what`s your response to that?
MURPHY: Look, I mean, the fact is she clearly did a lot of things right in the beginning. She didn`t, you know, stay with him and say, oh, I`m not going tell anyone. She went to a dentist, she told what happened, she took pictures. She went to a lawyer. She clearly took off from this guy and got a separation agreement. And she was protecting her child. Let`s not get on her. She may be a gold-digger. OK, let`s concede she may have tried to marry the guy, certainly became pregnant, wanted this child, maybe it was all about money for her. You still can`t punch her in the face and knock her teeth out.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK. Lisa G, I`m hearing that stars don`t want to say anything negative about him and he`s even getting offended by some Hollywood stars. What do you make of that?
LISA G: Well, of course Whoopi Goldberg said he`s not a racist, but you listen to everything that he said, Jane. I mean, which ethnic group did he not attack? So, you know, like I said earlier, this man has this hatred in his soul. Can he be rehabilitated? I don`t think so. I think his days in Hollywood are over. Let him find something else to do and hopefully this will end peacefully and no one will get hurt even more than what`s alleged. So, you know, it`s going to be interesting to see what happens from here. Is there a tape No. 4? I think everyone`s waiting.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, if there is a tape No. 4, you will hear it right here on ISSUES. Boy, we do hope this guy gets help if he`s an alcoholic, I pray for him. Thank you, fabulous panel. You`re watching ISSUES.
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