Return to Transcripts main page
Nancy Grace
California Child Abducted Seven Years Ago Found in Phoenix
Aired July 15, 2010 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight. Miracle! There is a God! A beautiful 1-year-old baby girl snatched right out from under her parents` nose at Chuck E. Cheese seven years ago. Tonight, as we go to air, found alive, the now 7-year-old Amber Rose found cowering, hiding under a pile of clothes stashed inside a shower. Seven years later, baby Amber alive.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police say a little girl...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... Amber Rose Nicklas...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... who was abducted almost seven years ago when she was 1, has been found alive in Phoenix, Arizona.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nicklas was with foster parents in Norwalk, California, when she was allegedly...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... kidnapped in September 2003 from a Chuck E. Cheese.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police say they found Amber Rose Nicklas at a home...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s actually a palm and tarot reader psychic shop.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That is where they found the girl...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... hidden in a shower under a pile of clothes and towels.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That is a big relief to her family because for the past seven years, they had no idea whether she was alive or dead.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Amber Nicklas was just 14 months old when she was kidnapped...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Officials say Nicklas ended up with a family in Phoenix that had no relation to her biological family.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: One of the biggest questions people are asking is how did these people in this home, unrelated to Amber, hide her for so long.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Amber`s name and birth date had been changed, and she was reportedly identified through the footprint on her birth certificate.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: And breaking news tonight. Hollywood superstar Lindsay Lohan`s wild, erratic behavior crashes to an end behind bars, Lohan violating probation repeatedly, skipping court-ordered alcohol counseling, her ankle SCRAM alarm goes nuts, alerting alcohol the night of the MTV Movie Awards. Thumbing her nose at the judge, she parties at the Cannes Film Festival instead of showing up in court, claiming she lost her passport and blaming volcanic ash. Busted on video, 2:00 AM, in micro-mini hot pants on a multi-million-dollar yacht in the French Riviera.
Lohan breaking down in court, sobbing, begging whining, and then in a disgusting display, sending a message straight to the judge, "F U" manicured onto her nails, nails she flashed at the judge throughout court. Evidence emerging Lohan jury-rigs that the monitor so she can booze it up and not get caught, claiming cruel and unusual punishment, citing the U.N.`s Declaration of Human Rights. Lohan`s lawyer throws in the towel.
Bombshell tonight. Lohan lawyers up, hiring high-powered defense attorney Robert Shapiro, who helped O.J. Simpson walk on double murder charges. And in the last hours, Lohan goes for broke, voluntarily admitting herself into rehab on the gamble the judge won`t force her to jail come Monday. This as reports Lohan will be the target of lesbian gangs behind bars.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Lindsay, are you worried about going to jail at all?
LINDSAY LOHAN, ACTRESS: I wasn`t expecting any special treatment.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Lohan allegedly told friends, quote, "I`m not going to jail."
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ninety days is a gift to Lindsay Lohan.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Lindsay Lohan has hired a new attorney.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... Robert Shapiro...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: His plan is to not appeal her 90-day jail sentence...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The performance that she gave in court was Oscar- worthy.
LOHAN: I don`t want you to think that I don`t respect you (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And then she walks right out of court after she tells the just she respects her...
LOHAN: I respect you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... and calls her an F-ing B...
LOHAN: ... taking this as a joke.
GRACE: ... F-ing B-I-T-C-H...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She has "F U" on both of her middle fingers.
LOHAN: This is my career. It`s something I`ve worked for my entire life!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She`s not taking this seriously at all.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She`s not afraid of anything because she thinks that, honestly, she will get special treatment.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Bombshell tonight. Miracle! There is a God! A beautiful 1- year-old baby girl snatched right from under her parents` noses at Chuck E. Cheese seven years ago -- as we go to air, we learn she is alive.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A 14-month-old girl kidnapped from, reportedly, a Chuck E. Cheese restaurant seven years ago has been found alive.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She was missing for so long.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police were able to track the child to a home in the area.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police raid this compound right here. It`s actually a palm and tarot reader`s psychic shop in Phoenix.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This case has been going along for seven years.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She was allegedly snatched by three of her aunts. It was back in 2003.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police say two of the aunts distracted Amber`s foster parents while the third took the baby.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: After exhaustive search and investigation, that night, those two were arrested (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They characterized that (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Officers go inside, raid the home, and what they find is a woman actually trying to hide Amber in a shower in one of the bathrooms under a pile of towels and clothes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Her name and birth date had been changed, and she was not enrolled in any school.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight out to Jon Baird, reporter, KNX Newsradio. Jon, what happened?
JON BAIRD, KNX RADIO (VIA TELEPHONE) : You know, it is a miracle, as you were talking about this, this 1-year-old girl kidnapped, essentially, by her aunts almost seven years ago from a restaurant in Norwalk here in southern California, and then she suddenly reappears.
The sheriff`s department got a tip about eight months ago, the LA County sheriff`s department. And working with the FBI and Phoenix police, they were able to track this little girl, who`s now 7, to a home in Phoenix, Arizona. They went in with a warrant yesterday.
Apparently, the people that had the little girl said that they adopted her but had no paperwork. And they found her in the bathtub in the shower under a pile of clothes. But she`s OK.
GRACE: Incredible. Seven years have passed since Amber Rose went missing, snatched from a Chuck E. Cheese right under the nose of her parents.
Straight out to you, Jean Casarez. Tell me about what happened. How was she found?
JEAN CASAREZ, "IN SESSION": Well, the Los Angeles County sheriff`s department, they got a tip, and that led them to the state of Washington, where they found the birth certificate of this youngster. And it had a footprint on it, so they got an order from a judge Phoenix, Arizona, because the tip led them to that state and...
GRACE: Wait! Wa-wa-wa-wa-wait! Back me up. Back me up. What are you saying about a footprint?
CASAREZ: A footprint on a birth certificate in the state of Washington that they believed was the footprint of this little girl, this little 1-year-old that was abducted in 2003.
GRACE: But Jean, how would they know that? Who would know about a child`s footprint?
CASAREZ: Because they had tips. They had information, and that led them to this birth certificate. And a birth certificate has footprints on it, normally. And so this led them to get a judge to execute an order. They went into a home to get the footprint and the DNA of little Amber Rose Nicklas. And they found that little girl in the bathroom, huddled under clothes as if they were trying to hide her. But they executed that order, got the footprint, and it was a match.
GRACE: We are taking your calls. I want to go back to Jon Baird. Jon, the Chuck E. Cheese where the little girl was taken to start with -- how was she taken? I mean, at that time she was only 1 year old. I don`t know if she could walk at that time. I mean, she, for all I know, may have been in a stroller or a carry seat. How was she taken out of a Chuck E. Cheese?
BAIRD: My understanding is that these -- the three aunts, I believe they were sisters of the biological mother -- the three aunts were there to meet the foster parents and have an unsupervised visit with this child. And two of the aunts distracted the foster parents, and the third aunt then escaped with the child. And she`s been gone ever since. It is really amazing that after all this time, they could find her alive and well, but they have.
GRACE: Well, back to you, Jean Casarez. If we think that the aunts are responsible, couldn`t they be located before now?
CASAREZ: Well, two of them were shortly arrested after that, and they actually were sent to a juvenile facility because all were teenagers, all these aunts. But the one that actually did the kidnapping, they never found her. And the family that she was found with just the other day -- they`re not biological relations at all -- totally different people.
GRACE: So the baby had been given away to non-relatives, to strangers.
To Sergeant Trent Crump, spokesperson with the Phoenix Police Department. We are thrilled! Tell me about finding the baby. What do you know?
SGT. TRENT CRUMP, PHOENIX POLICE DEPARTMENT (via telephone): Well, thank you, and good afternoon. Obviously, we are, too. You know, what we know is, is that we are an assisting agency on this and we`ve been helping the Los Angeles County sheriff`s office for the past, you know, week to 10 days on some tips that they provided our way. You know, we were -- we were thrilled yesterday, if that`s the right word here, to be able to get a court order here in Phoenix to go to this house, serve this order, and within a couple of hours, have evidence confirming that this was, indeed, the child that had been kidnapped almost seven years ago.
You know, that`s one of these things where in law enforcement, you know, we don`t turn our backs on these kind of cases. And as rewarding as they are, Nancy, they are heart-breaking, as well. And this young girl was taken yesterday from the only people she knows.
GRACE: Now, who are the people that had the child, Sgt. Crump?
CRUMP: Well, and understand, too, that we`re assisting the Los Angeles County sheriff`s office at this point, and we didn`t make any arrests. We did some interviews yesterday with them. We are withholding the information. I will tell you that yesterday, we did detain and interview two adult females and an adult male, and those folks are obviously pending charges. Obviously, we know who they are now...
GRACE: But what I`m asking you is, what do they do for a living? Why would they take in a baby under these circumstances?
CRUMP: Well, and I will agree with you on all of that, and there are a lot of unanswered questions here. But most of that is for the Los Angeles County sheriff`s office in their kidnapping case, which is what they`re working on now. You know...
GRACE: So you can`t tell us anything about them at all? Were they employed? Was the child in good health? How was the child living? Shouldn`t she be in school?
CRUMP: Yes, she should be, and you`re right. And yes, the child was in good health. And the living conditions as described by case agents to me was that it`s an appropriate living condition for a small child, and that just meaning, you know, physically. The child was unharmed. And as I said before, yesterday was a very traumatic day for this young girl.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A 14-month-old girl kidnapped from, reportedly, a Chuck E. Cheese restaurant seven years ago has been found alive. Police just located now 7-year-old Amber Nicklas at a home in Phoenix, Arizona. Police were able to track the child to a home in the area. Upon arrival, police reportedly say the girl was found hidden in the bathroom under a pile of towels and clothes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police say a little girl who was abducted seven years ago when she was 1 has been found alive in Phoenix. Phoenix police say they found Amber Rose Nicklas at a home, hidden in a shower under a pile of clothes and towels. Nicklas was with foster parents in Norwalk, California, when she was allegedly snatched by three of her aunts in 2003. Two of them were caught. Police say the third got away with the little girl.
Officials say Nicklas ended up with a family in Phoenix that had no relation to her biological family. After a tip, authorities went to the home yesterday. They say the girl`s identity had been changed, that she was kept out of school. Nicklas was described as scared by the day`s developments, but otherwise in good physical condition.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: A miracle! This little girl at age 1, Amber Rose, stolen right from under her parents` nose there at a Chuck E. Cheese. Seven years later, she is found alive. She had been in the custody of non-blood relatives. We don`t know right now as we go to air how she got into this couple`s custody. Was she sold? Was she handed off? We don`t know. But we do know she was found alive, hiding, cowering under a pile of clothes inside a shower. We know that detentions have been made, people are being questioned.
Out to the lines. Alice in Ohio. Hi, Alice.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi. It`s Allison.
GRACE: Hi, Allison.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) Nancy. I have a couple questions. It`s probably a bit too early. Do they know how her mental condition is? Was she physically, mentally, emotionally abused? Does anyone know that? And what`s the status of -- what is the status of a child who is in this situation, only knows one set of people, and then she gets put back with the correct family?
GRACE: What about it, Dr. Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst, author of "Deal Breakers"?
BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST: Allison asks a great question. This is so traumatic. Her attachment systems have been disrupted four times. She went from her mother to her grandmother to foster care and now to these non-custodial caretakers. She`s been kept from school, so she`s missed out on all the socialization experiences. She`s missed critical stages of development in learning. If she`s been abused, there`s been teacher, Sunday school teacher, people who could take at her and report her to authorities.
And we know that when a child is kidnapped, even when they`re in very cruel and neglectful circumstances, they bond with their captors. So now the only caretakers she has known have been taken away from her, and she may not even have the resources to cope with all of this psychologically.
GRACE: We are talking about Amber Rose Nicklas, stolen out from under her parents` nose at a Chuck E. Cheese, in public. Seven long years have passed. And tonight, as we go to air, this child is found alive in the custody of strangers.
Back to Sergeant Crump. How far away from that Chuck E. Cheese where she was taken seven years ago was she found today?
CRUMP: Well, obviously, we`re in Phoenix, so you know, we`re about six or seven hours` drive away from where she was abducted.
GRACE: To Jean Casarez. How far away is it?
CASAREZ: It`s about a seven, eight-hour drive from southern California. Remember, Norwalk is a suburb of Los Angeles. And we don`t know at this point who she was living with. We don`t know what relation, if any, that they have with the kidnappers. But we do know her identity was changed, her birth date was changed. And she can`t read.
GRACE: Jean, what about her condition? Do we know whether she was mentally or physically or emotionally abused?
CASAREZ: You know, Nancy, we can just use our common sense. This -- we believe this is who she was raised with, if she wasn`t changed from family to family. This is who she knows. And she was suddenly -- she probably just doesn`t understand and is so confused. And she now is with the Department of Children and Families in Los Angeles.
GRACE: Cannot read. Out to the lines. Vivian in Minnesota. Hi, Vivian.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. Hi, Nancy. You know, this just doesn`t seem right. I wonder if the aunts were -- do they have a criminal background or were they on drugs?
GRACE: You know, Vivian, that`s a good question. But Vivian, it was seven years ago. After seven years, who cares if they were on drugs the night they took the girl? They`ve had seven years to dry up!
But what about it? What do we know about the night they were taken, Jon Baird?
BAIRD: What do we know about the night she was taken?
GRACE: About the aunts, about the kidnappers?
BAIRD: All we know is...
GRACE: What became of them?
BAIRD: ... they were juveniles -- they were juveniles at the time this happened. Two of them were caught immediately afterwards. Apparently, they went to a juvenile camp. The third one was not located. You heard the story about how they just found her. We also interviewed -- know they have interviewed her. At this point, no charges have been filed.
But we`ve also heard just in the last half hour or so that these three were sisters and were sisters -- and I think I said this before -- of the biological mother. The relationship between the family that had her in Phoenix and the aunts isn`t quite clear, but my understanding is that they were acquainted. So even though they weren`t related, they were acquainted.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Her birth date had been changed and she was reportedly identified through the footprint on her birth certificate. Amber was abducted by three aunts on September 21, 2003, during a non- custodial visit.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police just located now 7-year-old Amber Nicklas at a home in Phoenix, Arizona.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This girl is alive and well.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police were able to track the child to a home in the area. Upon arrival, police reportedly say the girl was found hidden in the bathroom under a pile of towels and clothes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Three of the aunts had kidnapped Amber about -- back in 2003 at a Chuck E. Cheese out in Norwalk, California.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Amber`s name and birth date had been changed, and she was reportedly identified through the footprint on her birth certificate.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is a team effort with the Phoenix Department of Missing Persons, the Los Angeles County sheriff`s office and even the FBI.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nicklas was described as scared by the day`s developments, but otherwise in good physical condition.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Unleash the lawyers. Joining us, Eleanor Odom, prosecutor of felonies, specializing in crimes on women and children, John Manuelian, criminal defense attorney, L.A., Peter Odom, defense attorney, Atlanta.
Weigh in, Eleanor.
ELEANOR ODOM, PROSECUTOR: I see a lot of charges coming down the road, Nancy. But you got to remember two of the juveniles have already been dealt with. The third one has been on the lam for a long time, but a lot of times, juvenile court can retain jurisdiction until that person is 21. So she could still be prosecuted as a juvenile. So that`s an interesting twist.
GRACE: I don`t want her prosecuted as a juvenile.
ELEANOR ODOM: I know.
GRACE: I want her prosecuted her as an adult.
ELEANOR ODOM: And maybe they can put a charge which would be treated as an adult, such as kidnapping, so that she is prosecuted. But that`s just an interesting quirk in the law that we`ve got to work around.
GRACE: John Manuelian, what about the family that has been keeping this child?
JOHN MANUELIAN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, they have their rights, too. But again, going back to what charges that are going to be filed, she could be looking at kidnapping charges and she`s looking at...
GRACE: Put Manuelian up.
MANUELIAN: She`s looking at 5 to 15 years.
GRACE: Why do you have to start every -- every answer with, "They have their rights"? I did not ask you if they have their rights. This is America. Of course they have their rights. That goes without saying. I`m asking you about the charges this family faces. They kept this child possibly for seven years.
MANUELIAN: Right. Well, again, based on the facts that I have in front of me, it depends on the juvenile proceedings that they`re going to have. They could be charged as adult or a juvenile. They`re going to have a fitness proceeding. And under penal code section 208B, they could be looking at 5 to 15 years in prison...
GRACE: Peter Odom...
MANUELIAN: ... if they are charged as an adult.
GRACE: ... I am talking about the family...
PETER ODOM, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Right.
GRACE: ... that had the baby, all right?
PETER ODOM: I want to know...
GRACE: I`m not talking about the juveniles that stole the child from Chuck E. Cheese right under the nose of the parents. I`m talking about the family that harbored a crime victim all these years, did not allow her to go to school. She doesn`t know how to read. Her name was changed. Her DoB was changed.
PETER ODOM: Right.
GRACE: What charges are they facing?
PETER ODOM: Well, as John says, probably kidnapping. But I want to know two things. What the circumstances under which they got those kids? And I find it curious...
GRACE: You know what?
PETER ODOM: ... that they have no paperwork...
GRACE: Eleanor...
PETER ODOM: ... showing an adoption.
GRACE: ... can you answer?
ELEANOR ODOM: I think probably kidnapping, that`s true. But cruelty to children and maybe deprivation. And let`s hope the child wasn`t abused in any way because that could bring on more charges, Nancy.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LINDSAY LOHAN, ACTRESS: I`m out there right now. I`m an easy target.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The problem is that actions do speak louder than words.
LOHAN: I believe that everything that, you know, you put out there, and that`s --
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Yes.
LOHAN: -- what will project. Yes, you only live once. You might as well do something that`s going to leave a good impression on people.
JUDGE MARSHA REVEL, SUPERIOR COURT, BEVERLY HILLS: She was driving too fast. There was a collision.
LOHAN: I`m not taking this as a joke.
REVEL: Then left the scene.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: TMZ source says Shapiro will try to place Lohan in a rehab facility and either eliminate or minimize jail time.
LOHAN: It is my career. It`s something I`ve worked for my entire life.
REVEL: Aside from denying that she was driving she made a comment at the time, "I screwed up. I understand I`m not allowed to drink."
LOHAN: Honestly it did wake me up. Yes. Of course it scared me.
REVEL: She was subsequently arrested for driving under the influence again, being under the influence of cocaine and reckless driving.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
NANCY GRACE, HOST: A ploy by Lindsay Lohan. As we go to air, we learned that Lindsay Lohan not only lawyers up with high-powered attorney Robert Shapiro who helped O.J. Simpson walk on double murder charges, but also voluntarily checks herself into a rehab -- a posh rehab.
This in the hopes of avoiding heading to jail come Monday.
Straight out to you, Alexis Tereszcuk, joining us from Radaronline.com, out in L.A.
Alexis, what happened?
ALEXIS TERESZCUK, REPORTER, RADAROLINE.COM: So Lindsay Lohan has reportedly hired this new attorney, as you said, Robert Shapiro. He founded this sober house. It`s called Pickford Loft. It`s in West Hollywood. And she checked herself in last night.
She is staying there, as what I think she`s trying to do is avoid jail time. They`re going to go to the judge on Tuesday and say Lindsay has checked into the sober house. It`s a better place for her to be instead of the jail.
But our sources in the district attorney`s office, Dana Myers (ph), has said it`s absolutely not going to fly. The judge is going to put her in jail even though Lindsay is in the sober house. It`s not going to work. She`s got to serve her time.
GRACE: Let me ask you. What you`re saying the name of the place is Pickford what?
TERESZCUK: Loft. Like a loft in New York.
GRACE: Pickford Loft. Liz?
TERESZCUK: Yes.
GRACE: Get me -- Liz, get me shots of this place. I want to find out about it. I want to find out what is Pickford Loft. Oh, thank you. You read my mind. There you go. That`s Pickford Loft? And where is this located, Alexis?
TERESZCUK: It`s in West Hollywood, California, which is just in the middle of Los Angeles. It`s its own little city. But it`s very fancy. It`s a very nice part of town. And it`s not a jail at all. It`s a sober house. She` has already had visitors, her mom --
GRACE: Hold on. Hold on. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Wait a minute.
Alexis, contained lofts, Corian kitchen, hardwood floors, laundry, coed. Oh, there`s trouble. Morning meditation, gym, recreation.
What else do we know about it?
TERESZCUK: It`s incredibly expensive. I`ve heard -- and I`m not 100 percent positive on it -- but that it`s, again, upwards of $80,000. It`s so expensive. And it is something that only very rich people can afford.
It`s not at all like the jail that she should be going to. It has everything you could possibly need and as I said she had two visitors last night, Samantha Ronson, who was her rumored ex-girlfriend, another new friend of hers, and her mom and her sister. So it`s not like Lindsay is being put away and shut out from anybody.
GRACE: Sounds like --
TERESZCUK: It`s really turning a party.
GRACE: A pajama party to me.
TERESZCUK: Yes.
GRACE: Marco Gonzalez, reporter X17online.com, joining us out of L.A.
Marco, sounds like a big sleepover. There is Lindsay Lohan slung up in a -- what did she say -- $80,000 a month mansion with her girlfriend Samantha Ronson. That doesn`t sound anything --
MARCO GONZALEZ, REPORTER, X17ONLINE: Exactly.
GRACE: -- like the jailhouse the judge had in mind.
GONZALEZ: Right. Not exactly the 12 by 18 jail cell that she`d be facing at Lynnwood Correctional Facility, Nancy. And this is just another slap in the face of the judge, I feel, because, you know, her sentence is coming up. She`d had so much time to go to rehab and then she chooses not really a rehab facility, it`s more of a sober house.
And it`s cushy. As you`re mentioning. I mean you`re seeing the pictures. You know non-discreet. There`s no signage outside. And this happened out of nowhere. Yesterday we got the tip that she was shopping at an arts supply store and a furniture store. So, of course, we went to follow her there.
GRACE: Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Marco. So this is when she`s already in, quote, "rehab" she`s at a furniture store and an art store while she is in rehab?
GONZALEZ: No. This is actually right before, Nancy. We heard --
GRACE: Just before she goes into rehab.
GONZALEZ: We got a tip.
GRACE: OK. Got it. Got it.
GONZALEZ: Exactly.
GRACE: Ellie Jostad, what more can you tell me about this place? And Liz, if you can pull back on this place, I want to see Pickford Loft.
Go ahead, Ellie.
ELLIE JOSTAD, NANCY GRACE CHIEF EDITORIAL PRODUCER: Well, the important thing about this, Nancy, is the strategy behind it. Now the theory is that her new lawyer -- if it is Robert Shapiro -- he`s going to try to show the judge that she`s really serious about getting sober by checking into this rehab already.
Now the hope is that then when she`s supposed to report to court on Tuesday -- she`s supposed to go directly to jail from there. The hope is that at that point the judge will lessen her sentence or even eliminate it altogether.
GRACE: When did she hire Shapiro, Ellie?
JOSTAD: Well, and there`s conflicting reports on whether or not he`s actually been hired. But we heard today that he has come on board from various sources. It`s reported on TMZ and X17. But he has not come out and he has not filed with the judge that he`s now her attorney of record. So we`re still waiting for that.
GRACE: Well, that`s quite the coincidence, Eleanor Odom, that she hired Shapiro who he knows what he`s doing. I can tell you that about Shapiro. He is no idiot. So she hires Shapiro. Next thing you know she`s got court next week where she`s going to be sentenced to jail. She`s got to go to jail next week.
What a coincidence. She is looking at jail time in about a hundred hours from now. She brings on Shapiro and suddenly she goes to rehab.
ELEANOR ODOM, PROSECUTOR: Well, of course she does, Nancy. Anything to avoid jail. Look at this sober house they`re talking about. It`s more like a plush resort. I wouldn`t call it a rehab facility and it`s not.
But I don`t think she`s going to avoid jail. The judge`s orders are very clear. She`s going to have three hots and a cot instead of the resort.
GRACE: To Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst and author.
Dr. Bethany, if she wanted to get sober why didn`t she do it when she first came out of court a couple of weeks ago? Why on -- what is that? Hold on.
Ellie Jostad, what is that? Lindsay Lohan dressed as a nun licking a gun? Why am I -- wait.
Brett, give me the control room right now.
Elizabeth, why am I seeing Lohan depicted as a nun licking a gun? Explain, Liz. You have no explanation. Take it down, now. I see it. Thank you. Do not put it back up.
Back to you. Bethany, weigh in.
BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST, AUTHOR OF "DEALBREAKERS": Well, I think this move is going to outrage and infuriate the judge. And let`s be clear, this is not a psychiatric hospital. This is not a medical facility. It`s doubtful that there will be any clinicians or psychiatrists available.
It`s just a hotel with structure where addicts can stay and, yes, it`s quite plush. But given that addicts are characterized by a sense of victimization, entitlement, denial, this is the last place she should be. She needs to do her jail time.
It is contraindicated to have her do anything else. Rehab has been tried and it did not work and when one form of treatment fails, you try another. Rehab has failed so incarceration is the best form of treatment available to her at this time.
GRACE: To Dr. Robert Kaufmann, she was, according to the court documents, on a cocktail of medication, including Dilaudid, Add --
DR. ROBERT KAUFMANN, M.D., INTERNAL MEDICINE: Adderall.
GRACE: -- ADHD, yes, Adderall. A wide range of drugs. How long will it take her to dry out?
KAUFMANN: Well, it`s amazing to me that a 24-year-old is on this cocktail drugs, especially Dilaudid. And if she`s been taking Dilaudid on a regular basis, you cannot stop that suddenly because she`ll have withdrawal symptoms.
The Adderall you can stop suddenly. The Zoloft she has to be weaned off of. So it`s important -- I mean it`s amazing to me, first of all, that she`s on these drugs, but they cannot be stopped suddenly and they have to be watched carefully when they do stop.
GRACE: To Peter Odom, you don`t see a coincidence? She`s got to go to court in a couple of days, she could go to jail and suddenly she gets the yearning, the desire to enter a sober house?
PETER ODOM, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Nancy, look, the -- her timing couldn`t be worse. If she really wanted to benefit from a sober house she could have done this a month ago before her sentencing. And that timing is not going to be lost on the judge.
What I find tragic is that she didn`t do this a month ago. You know she`s a drug addict. She needs help. And all she is getting is more prescriptions from more doctors. And it`s tragic.
GRACE: Yes, she`s a drug addict that writes "F U" on her fingernails and waves them at the judge.
To tonight`s Facebook crime fighters, Texas friend, retired Navy officer, mother of three, Diane. Illinois friend, mother of one, teacher at an all-girls Catholic school, Roz, watches with her three dogs and Virginia friend mother of two, Jill. She is working towards her bachelor`s in marketing. Also watches with her dog, Frosty.
I want to thank you, Facebook crime fighters.
Everybody, submit photos at CNN.com/Nancygrace and click on Facebook.
And tonight our prayers to the family of Georgia friend Jill Meekins who passed away suddenly, July 3rd. A dedicated member of the Fulton County District Attorney`s Office. A juvenile prosecutor. A wonderful mother, loyal friend. Leaves behind two children, Darren and Daylon. Scholarship funds set up for both children at Bank of America.
Jill Meekins, good night, friend.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LOHAN: Nobody`s perfect.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The judge just really threw the book at her.
LOHAN: Everybody has their ups and downs.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The judge was fed up.
LOHAN: People say you go out too much.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The judge said she didn`t want to hear any of the arguments.
LOHAN: Kind of like, I`m just a normal girl. I always have to take responsibility for my own actions. Always.
REVEL: You are to attend all scheduled alcohol classes at the rate of one a week.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Miss Lohan`s uncle, her mother`s brother, died last week. And that was the reason that she missed the session.
REVEL: Did she go to the funeral?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She did not.
LOHAN: I was stuck in Cannes. I -- my passport was stolen so I had no option but to stay there.
REVEL: There`s really no valid excuse.
LOHAN: I was there thinking that it was OK that I missed those classes. I don`t see what reason I would go to prison for.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She actually ran over my foot and she didn`t stop. She said, no, I can`t get in trouble. I`m a celebrity. I can do whatever the (EXPLETIVE DELETED) I want.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: As we go air, we learned that Lindsay Lohan, in a bid to throw the judge off the track and not give her jail time next week when she goes to court, has voluntarily admitted herself into a rehab.
It looks more like a Beverly Hills mansion.
Straight out the Ken Seeley, founder of Intervention911.com, author of "Face It and Fix It."
Ken Seeley, thank you for being with us. Weigh in.
KEN SEELEY, FOUNDER, INTERVENTION911.COM, AUTHOR, "FACE IT AND FIX IT": Yes. Nancy, I`ve been to that sober living. And it`s really not that plush. But there`s not as much accountability as Lindsay needs.
And I believe that Lindsay really, really needs to do her jail time in order to surrender so treatment and recovery will work. She hasn`t hit her rock bottom. She needs to hit that rock bottom.
That`s what the jail is going to do, is get her to hit the rock bottom. And then when she surrenders and she`s sitting in there and wondering, why am I here, what can I do differently, then treatment, then recovery.
GRACE: But, you know, if you force jail on her, which is going to happen, why do you think that will make her hit rock bottom? I don`t see that she`ll ever think she did anything wrong?
SEELEY: Yes -- no, every single addict before they get into treatment and recovery have to hit a rock bottom. And she just hasn`t hit her rock bottom. She thinks she`s above the law. She thinks that there are no consequences that are going to affect her.
But by the judge making her go to jail, spend that 90 days in jail, sit there, feel what that is like, and hopefully that`s her rock bottom so it doesn`t have to be death.
GRACE: Out to the lines, Sarah in Florida. Hi, Sarah.
SARAH, CALLER FROM FLORIDA: Hi, Nancy. I was just wondering, do you think that when Lindsay goes to jail she`ll only stay in for a couple of days like other celebrities?
GRACE: Well, you know what`s interesting, Sarah? Last time she was in Lynnwood Correctional, she did about 82, 83 minutes -- minutes -- behind bars.
So, Ellie Jostad, how long are they saying that Lohan will actually do behind bars on this 90-day sentence?
JOSTAD: Right. Well, I`ve been looking through what all the experts are saying. And most of the predictions are she`ll do about 25 percent of her sentence which would be 23 days.
And, remember, Nancy, there`s been other celebrities that have gone through this facility. Paris Hilton only spent 23 days of a 45-day sentence. Nicole Richie only spent -- I think it was 82 minutes of a four- day sentence. Michelle Rodriguez only in there for a minute because of overcrowding. A lot of these inmates get out way before their sentence is over.
GRACE: Back to Alexis Tereszcuk, Radaronline.com.
Alexis, what can you tell me about Lindsay Lohan being the target of lesbian prison gangs?
TERESZCUK: There have been reports that the lesbian prison gangs are looking forward to having Lindsay there. I don`t think that it`s necessarily that they`re going to physically harm her. But I think that the story is that they want to make her cry. They want to scare her. They want to intimidate her.
They think that`d be like a badge of honor if they really upset Lindsay Lohan. She`s actually -- we`ve been told by the sheriff`s county spokesman that she`s going to be in -- not solitary confinement, you know, when you`re a murderer in there for life, but she`ll be secluded by herself. She`ll have her own cell.
It`s in a pod with about 16 other rooms. It will have a community room. But she`s not going to be in with the general population, with -- you know gang members that have been there for a very long time. She`s going to be in with other high-profile inmates. So I think that --
GRACE: To Sgt. Scott Haines, sheriff`s officer, Sta. Rosa County, Florida. Why will she be given preferential treatment behind bars?
SGT. SCOTT HAINES, SHERIFF`S OFFICER, SANTA ROSA COUNTY, FL.: Well, the segregation I wouldn`t consider that preferential treatment. That is not only for her safety but also to limit the liability if something did happen to her on the agency themselves.
I don`t believe that she should be given any special treatment. She should be given the same commodities that everyone else is given in there. Assign the same items. Other than cell by herself I think she should get exactly what everyone else gets.
GRACE: You are seeing the inside of what Lindsay Lohan`s jail cell will be there in Lynnwood Correctional Facility.
Back to you, Eleanor Odom, what does it mean to be segregated and why should she be segregated?
E. ODOM: Well, there is a good point made to limit the liability of the jail. But being segregated can be one of two things. You`re either completely removed 24 hours a day from anyone else and just have an hour a day for exercising, showering, whatever.
Or you can be with other people during the day, but at night, you have your own cell where you`re staying alone. And it`s probably for her safety.
GRACE: But it seems to me she`s getting preferential treatment, Eleanor.
E. ODOM: Well, let`s face it, Nancy. She is. She`s Lindsay Lohan and she is going to get preferential treatment. At least that`s what it sounds like.
GRACE: We are taking your calls.
I want to go back Marco Gonzalez, reporter, X17online.com.
What do you know about her being targeted already from behind bars particularly by lesbian prison gangs?
GONZALEZ: You know, Nancy, that danger excuse is a bunch of bull. Really, because -- I mean think about it. Paris Hilton was in there for 20 days. She was fine. If Paris was fine, Lindsay is going to be fine.
GRACE: Wait a minute, Gonzalez. Gonzalez, remember what Hilton said her disability was why she had to be in sick bay? She was claustrophobic. Do you remember that?
GONZALEZ: I`m so sorry.
GRACE: Yes.
GONZALEZ: I do. And you know what?
GRACE: That`s what happened.
GONZALEZ: Paris even said, Nancy -- yes, Paris even said, Nancy, that she was in a fetal position while she was in the cell. I mean, give me a break. Lindsay is going to be just fine. It`s another excuse that her camp is trying to put out there to try to minimize this. And the judge is not going to have it. There`s no way they`re going to lessen her charge.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LOHAN: In terms of going more than once in a week, some people -- I know that I was ordered to go once a week. And it wasn`t -- you know, I wasn`t missing the classes. I would never do anything like that. I was working mostly and I was working with children. It wasn`t vacation, it wasn`t some sort of a joke. And I respect you. I`m taking it seriously.
REVEL: -- is ordered to spend 30 days in jail on the reckless driving case, 30 days in jail on the first DUI case consecutive, and 30 days in jail on the second DUI case consecutive. That`s 90 days in jail.
LOHAN: I did do everything that I was told to do and did the best I could to, you know, balance jobs and showing up. I`m sorry.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is it OK if she sits down?
LOHAN: No.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Lindsay Lohan has reportedly hired a new attorney.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Robert Shapiro will represent her.
LOHAN: Here in L.A., you hear everyone`s going out, you`re like, oh what`s going to happen if I`m not there that one night?
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Jail-bound Hollywood starlet Lindsay Lohan.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Avoid jail.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Rehab facility.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Rehab.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Not appeal her 90-day jail sentence.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Checked herself in to a sober living house.
LOHAN: You go out too much.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Why do you think Shapiro, Eleanor Odom?
E. ODOM: Well, Nancy, he`s well known, he knows the court system, perhaps he knows the judge and maybe he has a special relationship with the prosecutor. He can maybe get what he wants.
GRACE: And, you know, Peter Odom, it matters. As a prosecutor when an attorney would approach me, a defense attorney, if I had worked with him in the past and I trusted them, I thought they were a good attorney, I was more likely to believe what they would say than some other attorney that I didn`t know or had bad dealings with or thought to be not truthful.
So he has a very good reputation. It`s going to help Lohan.
P. ODOM: It`s great to know the law, but it`s better to know the prosecutor and know the judge. And remember, Robert Shapiro is also very sensitive to issues involving addiction. He help founded one of the houses. And he might be involved just for humanitarian reasons. So --
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Well, I don`t know how much that will have to do with it. But John Manuelian, what about it? Why Shapiro?
JOHN MANUELIAN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I think because she was desperate. Because no other attorney would take it.
Honestly, Nancy, I don`t think that Robert Shapiro is going to be able to do anything in this case. I know Marsha Revel. I`ve done a trial in front of her. I know her real well. She`s a no-nonsense judge. That gavel is going to come down. It`s just a matter of when not if.
GRACE: You know, Manuelian, I think you`re right. I think if anybody could save her, it may be Shapiro, but at this point think Lohan has dug her own grave with the judge.
MANUELIAN: Absolutely.
GRACE: I think it will take more than Shapiro. Even -- maybe if he had entered earlier on and gotten her to behave, he might have a chance. But I don`t think even Shapiro can pull her out of this one.
Everybody, let`s stop and remember Army Chief Warrant Officer Brent Cole, 38, Reedsville, West Virginia, on a third tour. Also served Afghanistan. Highly decorated, awarded the Distinguished Flying Cross, Bronze Star, Air Medal with Valor.
A pilot with 20 years aviation experience. Loved flying Apache helicopters. Military history, ran four miles a day, loved time with family, watching movies, playing games. Leaves behind parents Jack and Helen, widow Vanessa, son Carson.
Brent Cole, American hero.
Thanks to our guests but especially to you. And tonight, a special good night from young Georgia crime fighter, friends from the Fulton County`s Junior District Attorney Program, Kandriss, Niam, Isaac, John, Antonio, Micah, Gabriel, Chase, Matthew, Jordan, Vivian, Yvette, Kate, Zamora, Jillian, Shakira, Arian, (INAUDIBLE), Jamisha, Divinity, Sidney, Erica, Simone, Tashara.
Everyone, I`ll see you tomorrow night 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.
END
