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American Morning

Rumors Circulate of BP CEO Tony Hayward's Termination; BP Continues Cleanup Operations; Military Searching for Missing Sailors in Afghanistan; Battle Over Wealthy Tax Cuts: Geithner Says Cuts Won't Hinder Economic Growth?; An American in Charge of BP; Utah Divided Over Immigration

Aired July 26, 2010 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


JOHN ROBERTS, CNN ANCHOR: Good Monday morning to you. Thanks so much for joining us in the Most News in the Morning. It's the 26th of July. I'm John Roberts.

SARA SIDNER, CNN GUEST ANCHOR: Kiran Chetry's off today, and I'm Sara Sidner.

ROBERTS: It's great to see you here.

SIDNER: It's great to be here. I don't know. They just trusted me (ph) to me come out.

ROBERTS: You were over from Delhi, a little R&R here in the states and you're about to go back, and they said, hey, by the way, want to come drop by for weeks (ph) and it's good.

SIDNER: I said why not.

ROBERTS: Great to have you here.

SIDNER: You never say (ph) no to the boss. So --

ROBERTS: You never say no to the boss.

Lot to talk about this morning. Let's get right to it. BP's CEO, Tony Hayward, will he make it through the day, this day, with his job intact? Several reports that he could be out as soon as this afternoon. BP denies it. We're live in London with the very latest.

SIDNER: An air and ground search is under way right now South of Kabul in Afghanistan for two U.S. navy sailors. Reports that the Taliban has killed one of those sailors. We're following the developing story from the Pentagon just ahead.

ROBERTS: Frightening sights with deadly results. Powerful storms rip across the United States. Tornadoes and dangerous floods destroy homes, uproot trees and knock out power to thousands of people. We are live in the Extreme Weather Center just ahead. But first, day 98 of the Gulf oil spill, and it may be Tony Hayward's last. The company could announce he's done during a keyboard meeting in London today. Many residents of the gulf coast say his words were salt on an already-gushing wound, and he became the poster boy for bad press saying things like the spill was relatively tiny, that the environmental impact would be small, that he wanted his own life back when 11 people died in that initial disaster.

Our Phil Black is live at BP headquarters in London for us this morning. Do we know if that meeting is under way yet?

PHIL BLACK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: No, John. That board meeting for BP is set to take place later this evening London time, so a few hours to go yet. And at the moment, BP says that it is simply aware of all the speculation that exists surrounding the future of Tony Hayward and it has no further comment to make on it except to say that that board meeting is accept to take place. No decision has been made, and any decisions that are made will be announced appropriately.

So that board meeting is really being interpreted here as merely a formality for signing off on Tony Hayward's departure, such is the intensity of the speculation that has taken place over the weekend. Assuming that is true, assuming that his severance package is signed off on this evening London time, we can expect Tony Hayward will walk away with a fairly decent golden parachute.

Just how much, there is a lot of speculation on that as well. He's been with the company 28 years. It seems the minimum payment would probably like this -- a one-off payment of $1.5 million, and then in addition to that, an annual pension payment of around $900,000.

As I said, that's being interpreted as probably the minimum payment. That any golden parachute that's seen to be overly generous for a chief executive that is in such trouble, whose company is in such trouble, will inevitably be highly controversial. John?

ROBERTS: When you look at those figures, it is obviously a lot of money, $1.5 million in a one-time payment, $900,000 a year in pension compensation. He also apparently has maybe more than $300 million in stocks. But comparatively speaking, the things we've seen in the past this terms of golden parachutes, it is rather -- it's not what other people have gotten. Let's put it that way.

BLACK: Yes, it is potentially low on those bare, basic minimum figures. But there are all sorts of other things that could potentially being factored into that, like bonuses. And that is where you could see those numbers blossom quite rapidly and very significantly as well. I just want to add, the man that's set to replace him -- there is only one name being mentioned here, and that is Bob Dudley, currently he's the managing director of BP. He's been with BP for 31 years, born in New York, raised in Mississippi, an American who would be this company's first non-British chief executive.

ROBERTS: We'll look forward to the results of that board meeting later on today. Bhil black for us this morning in London, thanks so much.

SIDNER: Meanwhile, efforts are resuming this morning to kill BP's ruptured well once and for all. Operations set back by about a week because of this weekend's tropical storm, but now crews are reconnecting equipment to resume drilling on those relief wells.

Rob Marciano is live in Gulfport, Mississippi this morning for us. Rob, we talked about this week. What is the new timetable for the static kill procedure?

ROB MARCIANO, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Well, basically the earliest would be next Monday. They are saying August 1st week would be the earliest they could try that static kill procedure. They've got the drilling platform that's been drilling the relief well. We're trying to get confirmation they latched in back on site. They'll latch on the LMRP down below, run conditioning fluid down through the wellbore, and then eventually run the rest of the liner and cement that.

That process is basically a five to seven-day process. And until that is complete, they can't start the static kill process. So that will put us at about a week from now.

They tell me that -- I asked, why the static kill, if it ain't broke, don't fix it, let's wait until the leaf well is drilled. But they are emphatic the static kill operation will make the bottom kill from that relief well much, much quicker and much, much easier. So that's where we are right now.

As far as oil that was affected by the storm, it is getting more difficult to see significant oil because that cap's been on there for ten days now. But there were a couple of spots that did see an infiltration of oil because of Bonnie.

It wasn't a strong storm, but we can pretty good strong onshore winds for a good 24 hours and there was significant oil offshore of grand isle that was getting closer and closer. But here in the Mississippi sound, no reports of seeing oil here. That's certainly good news. But onshore wind today may very well change that.

Skimmers are still on standby, over 700 of them. Good news is that the significant skimmable oil is getting a little bit more difficult to find. We certainly hope that's the trend as we try to kill this thing in the weeks to come.

SIDNER: Rob, just because we can't see the oil obviously it is still there, a lot of it. What about a timetable for the clean-up? We saw you in there, it is gooey, sticky, very difficult to deal with. Is there any idea how long it might take to deal with this?

MARCIANO: You know, the timetable for that is indefinite. I did ask the folks in charge of the cleanup are you going to start to ramp down? Will you say, listen, now we only need half the people that we've been hiring for vessels of opportunity?

They wouldn't put a number on it because there is 15 to 20 regions in which all these vessels are opportunities are based from. Those decisions to put them to work are on a day-by-day basis. It's safe to say the hiring of those vessels and the people here who have been put to work by BP will begin to slow down certainly in the days and weeks to come, and that's of course a bad thing as far as the economy goes but a good thing as far as getting some progress in this clean-up effort.

But it will be ongoing for weeks, months, and in some cases, years.

SIDNER: Thanks, Rob, in Gulfport, Mississippi.

Coming up at 7:40 eastern, we'll be joined by former Shell Oil president John Hofmeister for his take on what it might be like inside that big BP board meeting today.

ROBERTS: A massive cleanup effort is under way in Washington, D.C. this morning after powerful thunderstorms swept through on Sunday afternoon. Wind gusts topped 60 miles per hour bringing down trees, including this with one which crashed into a house. No one was injured inside the home, but one person was killed when a tree fell on a car.

SIDNER: Rough weather in the Midwest, today too. Check out this video of a tornado touching down in central Iowa. It damaged two dozen homes and businesses Friday night, though there were no reports of major injuries. That's the good news.

Also in Iowa though, it was too much rain that caused this dam near Cedar Rapids to completely fail. The wall of water snapped trees and damaged or destroyed at least 130 homes and businesses. Iowa's governor has issued disaster proclamations for two counties.

And in Chicago and its suburbs, the streets are lined with waterlogged furniture after a storm dumped more than five inches of rain. At least ten towns are declared disaster areas there.

Eight minutes after the hour.

(WEATHER BREAK)

Still ahead on "AMERICAN MORNING," captured in Afghanistan -- the Taliban has killed one American sailor, another still missing there this morning. Barbara Starr from the Pentagon with the latest on the situation. It's nine minutes after the hour.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ROBERTS: This morning, U.S. troops in Afghanistan desperately searching for two of their own who disappeared in a Taliban stronghold in Logar Province. The U.S. military's offering a $20,000 reward for any information.

Just what happened to the two service members is still a mystery. Barbara Starr joins us live from the Pentagon. Barbara, at this point what do we know?

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Very little officially, John. And why were these two U.S. Navy sailors in a single vehicle traveling south of Kabul, the capital, into Logar province, a known Taliban stronghold. Why -- if they had some business down there, why was there no military convoy, why were they by themselves?

This is one of the unanswered questions at this hour. Even as that air and ground search goes on. U.S. troops franticly looking for these two sailors. Now provincial Afghan officials have said that one of the sailors was killed in a firefight, the other one captured. The U.S. government is not confirming that.

They are saying, however, they are offering money, reward money, for any information. They have also put out a number of posters in the region saying if you have any information about either of these Navy sailors to contact U.S. or Afghan officials.

The hunt goes on in the meantime. The chief of U.S. Naval operations, issued this public statement, saying "The thoughts and prayers of our entire Navy go out to the missing sailors serving in Afghanistan and their families. We've been closely following the situation from the outset. Forces on the ground in Afghanistan are doing everything they can to locate and safely return our missing shipmates."

John, the underlying concern here is they want to find them before they are possibly moved across the border into Pakistan. That, of course, would be out of the reach of any U.S. military rescue.

ROBERTS: Barbara, any idea on when we'll learn the names of these two sailors?

STARR: As the search goes on, they made decide to withhold publication of their names for security reasons. The families have been notified, but all information about this is really very closely held while this search goes on. They hoped to get them back. John?

ROBERTS: Barbara Starr for us from the Pentagon. Barbara, thanks.

SIDNER: Also new this morning, the U.S. and South Korea flexing some military muscle designed to send a message to the North. The drills are in response to North Korea's sinking of a South Korean warship in March. Pyongyang is threatening to retaliate with, quote, "sacred war."

ROBERTS: Two Democrats on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee will hold a press conference at 10:30 this morning in Times Square. New Jersey Senator Robert Menendez and New York Senator Kirsten Gillibrand will talk about this week's hearing on the release of the Pan Am Bomber. The big question, did a BP oil deal between the U.K. and Libya play any role in the release of the convicted terrorist? The two senators would like to know that.

SIDNER: And wildfires burning through the night in northeastern California. The fires broke out in Lassen County over the weekend. Officials say the flames have already scorched 1,700 acres and destroyed three buildings.

ROBERTS: Big debate over whether or not the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy should expire. Jeanne Sahadi from CNNmoney.com joins us in the next couple of minutes to talk about whether or not there may be a little less in your paycheck every week starting at the end of the year.

Sixteen minutes after the hour.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ROBERTS: Nineteen minutes after the hour. BP announced its second quarter earnings tomorrow while its shares have been cut in half since April. Analysts expect earnings to be up 48 percent from the same period last year. The reason? Oil has spiked 50 percent higher since last summer and gasoline is up 34 percent.

SIDNER: Republican Steve Forbes is calling President Obama anti- business. He told our Candy Crowley on CNN's "STATE OF THE UNION" that many businesses aren't hiring because they're concerned about the cost of health care, financing reform, and, of course, taxes.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEVE FORBES, PRESIDENT & CEO, FORBEST INC.: Until the president deals credibly with that uncertainly, it's going to be a very subpar economy. There are very serious headwinds in the face of this economy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERTS: At the same time, the White House is out in full force defending the administration's push to let the Bush tax cuts for wealthy Americans expire this year. Cuts, critics argue, would hinder economic growth.

SIDNER: Joining us with some perspective on what this could mean for the economy is Jeanne Sahadi, senior writer with CNNmoney.com.

Let's first look at some of these numbers here and what we're talking about. So the Obama administration wants to let tax breaks expire for the highest earners, families earning somewhere around $250,000 a year and individuals making at least $200,000 a year. Now if Congress allows the tax breaks to expire, that would mean that the top tax rate goes up to 39.6 percent. You see it there in 2011, and then from 33 percent up to 36 percent.

Jeanne, how significant are these taxpayers, because on the one hand you have them saying it's only the top two or three percent of the population. On the other hand, you have them talking about paying down the deficit which is outrageous. How significant are these taxpayers to the economy?

JEANNE SAHADI, SENIOR WRITER FOR CNNMONEY.COM: Well, the upper two or three percent of Americans are a significant group but relative to the other 97 percent, we cannot balance the budget on the back of two percent or three percent of taxpayers.

What Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner has said was this -- and what people who support this expiration say, well, we're putting into place a deficit reduction mechanism and there is a lot of push to start to do that. We can't do it all at once. But people shouldn't think, oh, yes, that's fine. If people make more than $250,000, they've got it. We're done. Good. It's not going to happen.

ROBERTS: Well, Geithner was out at the Sunday talk shows yesterday defending the administration's plan to let these tax cuts expire.

SAHADI: Right.

ROBERTS: Let's listen to what he said about it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TIMOTHY GEITHNER, TREASURY SECRETARY: Now, we also think it's responsible to let the tax cuts expire that just go to two to three percent of Americans, the highest earning Americans. We think that's the responsible thing to do because we need to make sure we can show the world that we're willing as a country to start to make some progress bringing down our long-term deficits.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERTS: You know, raising taxes to pay down the deficit or cut the deficit and begin to rein in the exploding debt is an idea that's gaining traction. Alan Greenspan says, hey, don't just raise taxes on wealthy Americans, raise taxes on everybody. But what about cutting spending?

SAHADI: Well, exactly. And tax and estimate experts both say you have to do both. And in fact, Erskine Bowles, who runs the president's fiscal commission, has said that he kind of finds it interesting how the British did it. They, in their debt reduction plan, they leaned more heavily on spending, about 75 percent on spending cuts and 25 percent in tax increases.

So we're not at all there in terms of making that decision but the tax cuts -- the reason Alan Greenspan said that was we can't afford the $3 trillion that will cost to extend them for everybody or the $2.2 trillion it will cost to extend them for most people. There is a push to pay for them. If we do extend the Bush tax cuts for the upper income families, under pay-go rules they're actually going to have to find the $700 billion or so somewhere else to pay for the cost to doing that.

So it's a hard decision for lawmakers. Even if they wanted to do it, they're going to have to pony up somewhere else. And that's not going to lead to a popular decision, however they decide to pay for it.

SIDNER: And, of course, we're talking not just about people who are considered -- people considered wealthy. We're talking about small businesses, are we not, in this tax bracket? And a lot of people will say that small businesses are really important to the economy, and this is going to hurt them, making them possibly lay people off or certainly make them worry about their bottom lines.

SAHADI: Exactly. So the two arguments that small businesses it's just what you said. Small businesses pay those top two income tax rates so if you raise them, you're hurting the guy who owns the small business.

People who say, not so much, it's really not going to have that much of an effect because only three percent of small businesses file at the top two rates. And while they account for about 50 percent of all net small business income, some say that a big percentage, or at least a significant percentage of that 50 percent pot is from businesses that you wouldn't ordinarily associate with job creating small businesses, things like investment partnerships or law firms. So that's kind of a dog fight that people are going to be having.

ROBERTS: Let's take a moment and look at where the economy is going. You have Ben Bernanke on one hand saying that this country's fraught with economic uncertainty. He's not sure how things are going to turn out. But then Tim Geithner says don't think that there's going to be a double-dip recession.

SAHADI: Right.

ROBERTS: The economy will continue to recover over the next year or two. Who's right? What are you hearing?

SAHADI: Well, what I hear from everybody is that we still have economic growth but it's slow and it's probably going to remain slow going forward. So the jury is out on whether there's a double-dip recession. But economists like Mark Zandi, who's consulted both Democrats and the Republicans, he told me he thinks there's a better chance we won't have a double-dip recession, but he also thinks we ought to extend the tax cuts for the middle class and only gradually phase them out for upper income, maybe do it over a couple of years because he thinks the economy's too fragile right now. So I think Ben Bernanke and Tim Geithner are talking about the economy from different perspectives. Ben Bernanke has the signals to the markets about rates and the like. Tim Geithner has to talk sort of more broadly about the economy and confidence.

ROBERTS: Yes. Talk about a rock and a hard place though.

SAHADI: That's the way we live now through the next few decades.

(CROSSTALK)

ROBERTS: You can't reduce taxes according to some people.

SAHADI: Yes.

ROBERTS: So, (INAUDIBLE). Jeanne Sahadi, great. Thanks.

SAHADI: Thank you.

SIDNER: Thanks for joining us.

Coming up, if you want the latest financial news and analyst, you can go to CNNmoney.com. ROBERTS: In the blogosphere, it's already being called the wedding of the decade and the closest thing that America has to a royal wedding. This Saturday, Chelsea Clinton is getting married somewhere outside of New York City, we think we know where. "Politics Daily" is estimating the secretive ceremony could cost -- are you ready for this -- here is a cha-ching if ever we heard one -- $2 million.

SIDNER: OK. So the venue likely to be a private French-inspired mansion in upstate New York called Aster Courts. Rental costs -- here's how some of these costs break down. 100 to 200 grand, food and drinks could be about what? Half to three quarters of a million dollars? What are they feeding those folks?

ROBERTS: They'll be drinking good champagne.

SIDNER: $200,000 for tents. Because they're going to have a lot of guests, 40,000 bucks on music, and another 25,000 for the photographer. To compare, Chelsea's parents got married in front of family and friends. Where? In their living room in Fayetteville, Arkansas back in 1975.

ROBERTS: How things change after you've been president. Huh?

SIDNER: Yes.

ROBERTS: Still ahead, tens of thousands of military and diplomatic documents about the war in Afghanistan leaked to and now posted on a popular whistle-blower Web site. Are U.S. troops and our security here at home now at risk because of it? A live report just ahead.

It's 26 1/2 minutes after the hour.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ROBERTS: As we cross the half hour, your top stories this morning. BP boss Tony Hayward could be on his way out today. Reports saying the company will announce his exit at a board meeting in London. But BP for the moment insisting that Hayward is still in charge.

SIDNER: And severe storms pounding parts of the northeast and Midwest over the weekend and in western New York, one twister ripped roofs off homes and ripped down trees and power lines. To the west in Iowa, another tornado damaged homes but fortunately, no one was seriously injured.

ROBERTS: And a massive military search continues in Afghanistan this morning for two U.S. sailors who disappeared in a Taliban stronghold. A $20,000 reward is being offered for any information. There is a report that one of the sailors was killed by insurgents in a firefight, the other one taken captive but U.S. forces are not confirming either one of those.

SIDNER: This morning, the White House is condemning the release of a treasure trove of classified documents on the war in Afghanistan. Tens of thousands of files were made public by the whistle-blower Web site "Wikileaks" and paint a grim picture of the U.S. war effort in Afghanistan.

ROBERTS: The White House this morning is saying it's a threat to national security to have all those documents out there.

CNN's Atika Shubert is following developments. She is live from London this morning. And one of the people from WikiLeaks is currently holding a press conference and you're monitoring that.

Atika, what are you hearing so far?

ATIKA SHUBERT, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right. I actually just came out of the press conference. It is being given by the editor of WikiLeaks, Julian Assange, a very illusive figure. He pops up around the world. He doesn't have a permanent address. So this is a very rare event.

Basically he's going over the material, explaining what is in these 90,000 U.S. military records that WikiLeaks has put out and he's having to answer a lot of questions about that White House statement, whether or not WikiLeaks is endangering troops and others by publishing this material on-line, this raw data.

He says that WikiLeaks has a harm minimization policy, that its ultimate goal is reform and its method is transparency is what he said. But it is not ad hoc release. That they have actually withheld some of those documents in order to prevent names of informers, for example, from being out there in the public. That might endanger them, he said.

But otherwise, all of the material that has been released so far he says is not a national security threat because it is more than seven months old, and so it is not operationally current at the moment, he says. And so it won't be a threat to any of the troops on the ground at the moment. John?

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SHUBERT (voice-over): This is the video that sealed WikiLeaks' reputation as a clearinghouse for classified materials. It created a stir over the killings in 2007 of two Reuters journalists and others in an attack by U.S. forces in Iraq.

Now WikiLeaks is publishing what it says is more than 90,000 U.S. military reports filed about the war in Afghanistan from 2004 to 2009, raw data from the front line, a day-by-day unvarnished view of the war by U.S. soldiers themselves.

WikiLeaks will not say how it received the documents and CNN has not been able to independently confirm their authenticity, but if confirmed, it would be the biggest leak yet of classified documents to WikiLeaks.

JULIAN ASSANGE, WIKILEAKS EDITOR: It is the sort of total squalor of the war. So all these people killed and the small events that we haven't heard about which numerically eclipse the bigger events, the casualty events. It is the boy killed by a shell that missed a target.

SHUBERT: In a statement responding to WikiLeaks' Afghan document release, the White House said, "The United States strongly condemns the disclosure of classified information by individuals and organizations which could put the lives of Americans and our partners at risk and threaten our national security." But Julian Assange, the editor for WikiLeaks denies that the site has put troops in danger and says it did hold back some sensitive material.

ASSANGE: And there have certainly been people who have lost elections as a result of material appearing on WikiLeaks. There's been prosecutions as a result of material appearing on WikiLeaks. There has been legislative reform as a result of material appearing on WikiLeaks. What has not happened is anyone being physically harmed as a result.

SHUBERT: Assange says his aim is to shine some light on abuses in the field and give the general public the information it needs to have an informed opinion on the war.

ASSANGE: This material doesn't just reveal occasional abuses by the U.S. military. Of course, as U.S. military reporting all sorts of abuses by Taliban, suicide bombers and IED (INAUDIBLE). So It does describe the abuses by both sides in this war and it's how people can really understand what is actually going on. Whether they choose to support it or not.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SIDNER: Atika, talk a little bit about sourcing. Did he talk in the press conference about how WikiLeaks sourced this and any idea of where this came from and how are we sourcing it? Are we going through and trying to verify some of this information?

SHUBERT: Well, we are trying to go through some of this information and verify the accuracy of it ourselves, but there's an incredible amount of information here and it's just impossible to process in a short amount of time. In fact in the press office, one of the British reporters says the ministry of defense put out a statement saying it cannot independently confirm the validity of these records themselves because there's simply too much.

In terms of the sourcing, Assange stands by the WikiLeaks' policy that they will not reveal the source of any of their documents and materials on-line. A lot of it they say is published anonymously on their secured web site. That of course makes it very difficult to verify exactly how WikiLeaks can authenticate this, but WikiLeaks says it has its own panel of journalists and analysts that have cross- checked this with military analysts, with other NATO-member military analysts.

And they say they believe this is 100 percent legitimate. They also add that they have a track record that shows that nothing they've put on their web site, they say so far, has proven to be a hoax or a forgery. Sara.

SIDNER: All right. Atika Shubert there for us, thank you this morning.

ROBERTS: Still ahead on the most news in the morning, he said he wanted his life back, and BP may be giving it to him. Will BP's CEO Tony Hayward make it through the rest of this day with his job? And who might take over if he's let go?

Former Shell oil president John Hofmeister is in this morning to talk about that. He's coming up next. It's 36 minutes after the hour.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(MUSIC)

ROBERTS: 39 minutes after the hour. The BP executive who was caught yachting in Europe while oil was gushing into the Gulf of Mexico is reportedly on his way out today. The announcement could come at any moment from BP's board. BP's chief executive Tony Hayward expected to be replaced by American Robert Dudley as the company's top man.

So far BP says Hayward "has the full support of the board of directors." And here to break down what's really going on behind the scenes at BP is John Hofmeister, former president of Shell Oil. He joins us live from Washington. So do you John expect Tony Hayward is going to survive the rest of the day with his job?

JOHN HOFMEISTER, FORMER SHELL OIL PRESIDENT: Well, we'll see as the day progresses what the board decides. The papers are certainly covering it as though it is a done deal. The board has to worry about is not only its own reputation as a board in terms of the wider business and the investor community and so forth.

They also have to think about the future. That really is the purpose of the board, is to govern the company under all circumstances but BP has - is coming from a pretty difficult past here and to try to put the image out there of a board that's in charge of the destiny of a company is I think what this is all about.

ROBERTS: What do you think he's going to come away with in terms of a golden parachute if he's ousted? We're hearing certain figures, maybe a one-time payment of $1.5 million, an annual pension of $900,000 at the age of 60. I know he has a tremendous amount of money in stock as well. What do you think given the circumstances BP can give him to go out the door?

HOFMEISTER: Well, those packages are really carefully scrutinized in the U.K.. You know, I worked there for about eight years as part of Shell's organization, and the British people, the British press, they really carefully scrutinize. And I think boards in the U.K., as well as the rest of Europe, are pretty straightforward on these separation packages. These are not as generous as what some people might see in the U.S..

The numbers are large, but remember, Tony's running one of the major companies in the whole world. And so there is a recognition of his contributions of many, many decades and I think, you know, because of the balance with which boards take these things, the numbers I've seen and read about don't surprise me at all. They're kind of in the ballpark of what's happened in other British companies.

ROBERTS: And when you look at a guy who's been there for 28 years, he is running $150 billion company, at least that's what it was worth before the oil spill took the stock value down. I mean, if this was in the United States, he probably would be walking away with tens upon tens of millions of dollars.

HOFMEISTER: That's true. And that's where I think the British governance is a much tighter, tougher governance than what we've seen in the United States. It is a different pay market all together and within different pay markets, of course, there are certain principles, certain standards, certain rules that are followed. So while it may get a few headlines, I think it is one in the category of a sort of one-day story.

ROBERTS: Right. Now of course, he had some famous gaffes that left him appearing I guess by some people's measure less than sensitive about what was going on in the gulf. Let's just replay if we could, John, this morning some of those greatest hits of Tony Hayward.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TONY HAYWARD, CEO, BP: This wasn't our accident. This was a drilling rig operated by another company. It was their people, their systems, their processes. We are responsible not for the accident.

I think the environmental impact of this disaster is likely to be very, very modest.

There's no one who wants this thing over more than I did. You know, I'd like my life back.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERTS: When this is looked at sort of in retrospect in the history of corporate governance, how will those statements be seen?

HOFMEISTER: I think they will be seen in at least two dimensions. One is those words never should have been uttered. I think whoever was his public relations coach really didn't do their job because those are utterances which showed insensitivity, they showed a level of misunderstanding of the situation that people really will not forget.

At a second level, some of what he said is not that untypical of what would be commonly expressed in a very different culture, which the U.K. is, particularly "I want my life back." I heard that so many times living in the U.K. that when somebody had gone through a particularly stressful period, it's a bit like street talk, "I want my life back." Of course, it was inappropriate in the U.S. because it didn't go down at all well.

ROBERTS: Yes, I mean, when you consider that 11 people were killed in the Deepwater Horizon and look at the effect across the Gulf in terms of economics and livelihoods destroyed, to say something like that was taken to be incredibly insensitive. If he hadn't made those gaffes, do you think, John, we'd be talking about his ouster today?

HOFMEISTER: I think that's for the board to decide, John. And here's the issue. They've had a really, really rough time. Recovering from this mortal incident is really something that has to turn the company in a new direction. Much like, you know, other huge corporate tragedies, this is something that perhaps you need a new leader with a new set of criteria and while Tony did many things well, I think it's time to move on.

ROBERTS: So this is something that might have destroyed a CEO regardless of what he said about it, I take it, is what you're saying. What about Bob Dudley? An American, he's going to be the first American to ever head BP. How will he be different?

HOFMEISTER: Well, I think Bob has tremendous credibility, first of all. I think in the American scene he knows and understands America, which is very important when 40 percent of your asset base is in this particular country and in particular because you've set a strategic future predicated on developing the U.S.. So I think in that regard it is great to have somebody who understands the territory and the dynamic and the mindset of what's here.

In addition, Bob has significant global experience. He worked in Russia, which was very difficult. In fact I think he lost his visa as part of the politics of dealing with what he had to deal with. But this is a very accomplished executive and he comes from an Amoco background, I believe. And I think he will offer the company great leadership.

ROBERTS: All right. We'll see what happens potentially later on today.

John Hofmeister, always good to catch up with you. Thanks for joining us this morning.

HOFMEISTER: Thank you.

ROBERTS: Sara?

SIDNER: John, still ahead, is your name on the list? Two state employees under fire in Utah for compiling a list of supposedly illegal immigrants in the state. Is Utah looking to become the next Arizona when it comes to immigration law?

And Jacqui Jeras will have this morning's travel forecast right after the break. It's 45 minutes after the hour.

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SIDNER: Good morning once again. Forty-eight minutes after the hour. Let's get a quick check of this morning's weather headlines.

Jacqui Jeras is in the extreme weather center for us. It has been a wild, hot, disturbing time for a lot of folks.

JACQUI JERAS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: I know. It's like raise your hand if you had nice weather this weekend. I don't think anybody raised their hand.

(LAUGHTER)

ROBERTS: It was nice for a while.

JERAS: Yes, maybe for a minute or two but if you didn't have heat, you had storms, if you didn't have storms you had fire danger out west. There was a little of everything really out there over the weekend.

Check out these pictures, by the way, out of Washington, D.C. Severe thunderstorms rumbled through there yesterday causing quite a bit of wind damage. Knocking trees down on houses and causing some power outages for folks.

And this is really the price you pay when you're talking about record heat in D.C. in the triple digits over the weekend and now we've got that heat relief which has moved in for today and will continue through at least midweek before you start to warm up a bit.

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SIDNER: Nasty. All right. Thank you, Jackie.

ROBERTS: This morning's top stories are just minutes away now, including rain forests of the sea at risk. We'll take you on an amazing ride to the bottom of the Gulf of Mexico to see how the oil spill is affecting a whole different world of wildlife.

SIDNER: Also, amazing video here caught on tape. A fighter jet plummeting to the ground during a practice run. Luckily, the pilot bailing just a split second before that fireball there.

ROBERTS: And a struggle of hearts and wandering minds. The toll attention deficit disorder can take on your marriage and how to overcome those challenges.

Those stories and more coming your way at the top of the hour.

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SIDNER: Fifty-three minutes past the hour.

Arizona's controversial immigration law set to take effect on Thursday, but just over the state's northern border, one Utah lawmaker is pushing ahead with a similar bill for his state.

Two Utah state employees were just fired for a now infamous immigration list. It had names and information of 1300 Utah residents all accused of being there illegally.

The debate is really starting to divide the state, and that's why Ted Rowlands went to Salt Lake City for this "A.M. Original."

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over: In the backroom of a Salt Lake City market, Latino activist Tony Lapis (ph) has a hotline for people to call to find out if they're on the list.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It has sent a chilling effect into our community.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He's not on the list, OK? No.

ROWLANDS: The list surfaced two weeks ago. Two state employees who are now being terminated allegedly used medical data to come up with the personal information of 1300 reported illegal immigrants.

The list was sent to government agencies, law enforcement and the media with this letter, demanding that the people on the list be deported immediately.

JESUS, ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT: I got here illegally. So -- but I didn't know I was doing a bad thing because I was young by then, but now I know that it's -- it's a bad thing.

ROWLANDS: We met 25-year-old Jesus at a park. He didn't want us to show his home or use his last name. Jesus is on the list. He says he's lived in Utah illegally since he was 15 when he says his father brought him here from Mexico.

He has a wife, who is also here illegally, and a 2-year-old daughter who was born in Utah.

JESUS: It's pretty sad and scary because if somebody comes to your door and knocks, hey, let's go.

ROWLANDS: Jesus says the tension he feels living in Utah is growing, but the ongoing immigration debate and now the list.

ELI CAWLEY, UTAH MINUTEMAN PROJECT: To think there's fear in the hearts of these illegal aliens, I celebrate that.

ROWLANDS: Utah Minuteman Eli Cawley is pretty clear on where he stands.

CAWLEY: They swam here, they walked, they crawled here, by whatever way they got here, they can go back that way.

ROWLANDS: Cawley says people may call him a bigot but he believes a lot of Utah is on his side when it comes to illegal immigration.

In an April poll, 65 percent of Utah voters surveyed said they support an Arizona 1070 type law here. One is in the works and is expected to pass next year.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm tired of the lack of civility. I'm tired of the hatred. And I'm tired of the hostility. I think Utahans or the majority of Utahans are above that.

ROWLANDS: Last week Republican Governor Gary Herbert hosted a discussion on illegal immigration. While there were disagreements on what if anything the state should do about it, all sides were quick to blame the federal government for not doing something years ago.

GOV. GARY HERBERT (R), UTAH: In the absence of federal action on this, there may be no other alternative but for states like Utah to move forward.

ROWLANDS: As for the list, the attorney general announced a criminal investigation into the leak. Although Jesus admits he is in the country illegally, officials say some of the people on the list are here legally.

(On camera): Do you think you should be able to stay?

JESUS: Yes, I think I should have the chance to stay here.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ROWLANDS: You can see Jesus' name here on the list. What he is hoping is that the federal government will pass immigration reform and have some sort of path to citizenship for he and his wife.

He says if it doesn't happen, though, he does have plans to move back to Mexico -- John, Sara.

SIDNER: Ted Rowlands there in Salt Lake City. And with Arizona's immigration law taking effect on Thursday, CNN will be on the ground there tracking it all.

Join our chief national correspondent John King. He'll be broadcasting a show live from Arizona starting Wednesday night. That's "JOHN KING, USA" at 7:00 p.m. Eastern only here on CNN.

ROBERTS: Top stories are coming your way in two minutes' time. Don't go away.

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