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Nancy Grace
Misty Croslin`s Parents Arrested on Drug Charges
Aired July 26, 2010 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAT LALAMA, GUEST HOST: Breaking news tonight in the Haleigh Cummings investigation. Little Haleigh is tucked into bed, and just five hours later, she disappears. The last person to see Haleigh alive, new stepmother Misty Croslin.
Well, tonight, Misty Croslin`s parents have been arrested. That`s right, Hank and Lisa Croslin now behind bars. Why? Will this pressure Misty Croslin to come clean? Will these arrests finally help find Haleigh? All this as a report claims Haleigh`s dad, Ronald Cummings, is making a plea deal to testify against Misty Croslin. What will he reveal?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HANK CROSLIN, MISTY`S FATHER: As soon as they get this Haleigh case wrapped up, they`ll let us alone.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... received a tip...
MISTY CROSLIN, HALEIGH`S BABY-SITTER: ... answer any questions I have to.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... that there was possible physical evidence in the Haleigh Cummings investigation.
HANK CROSLIN: Just want to just screw us up, the rest of our lives up.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hank and Lisa Croslin were arrested.
LISA CROSLIN, MISTY`S MOTHER: You better be honest with them.
MISTY CROSLIN: Mama, I`m being honest, OK?
HANK CROSLIN: If they want to put me in jail, they`re going to put me in jail. I don`t give a (EXPLETIVE DELETED). I ain`t do nothing wrong.
They say you sold over 300 pills to the undercover.
I told you to stay away from that stupid (EXPLETIVE DELETED).
MISTY CROSLIN: I don`t know where she is!
I`m not hiding anything.
They just need to move on.
Dad, there`s nothing!
HANK CROSLIN: They just want to just mess with us and mess with us and mess with us. Regardless of what the outcome is. I want to know where Haleigh`s at.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re not going to rule it in or out.
RONALD CUMMINGS, HALEIGH`S FATHER: Well, of course, I want to know if she knows anything.
HANK CROSLIN: They`re probably going to have us all in jail before it`s all over with.
MISTY CROSLIN: Dad, stop saying that. No, they`re not.
HANK CROSLIN: Well, that`s what they want.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LALAMA: And tonight, live to Arizona. A little 2-year-old boy camping with his soon-to-be adoptive mom, last seen at midnight in his sleeping bag, and two hours later, he`s gone, little Syler only wearing a diaper. Tonight, let`s find this beautiful little baby.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A little boy...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... remains missing after vanishing in the middle of the night.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The last time anyone saw the toddler was just after midnight Sunday morning.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He`s 2 years of age.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: By 1:30, he was gone.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He was wearing only a diaper.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Two-year-old Syler Newton was last seen in his tent while on a camping trip...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: These are pictures of the campsite.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: About 15 miles south of Flagstaff, Arizona...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... experts believing the boy could have made it on his own up to a mile.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Syler was on the trip with a family that`s in the process of adopting him.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Really horrible! My baby`s gone!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Until we speak to the biological mother, we just don`t know the full story, and that`s what`s going to be an important factor in this case.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LALAMA: Good evening. I`m Pat Lalama, filling in tonight for Nancy Grace. Breaking news. Misty Croslin`s parents busted.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I really don`t care no more. Do my time. Get the hell out of here. They got us right where they want us.
MISTY CROSLIN: If I had something to do with it, I knew where she was, we wouldn`t be sitting here today!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We saw probably anywhere, like, say, between 12 to 15 divers.
911 OPERATOR: When did you last see her?
MISTY CROSLIN: We just -- like, you know, it was about 10:00 o`clock (INAUDIBLE)
I can`t wait. I want this to be over with.
HANK CROSLIN: It`s not going to be over with for a long time.
It`s bad when you got both of your kids in jail and worried to death about both of them.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They`re searching in front of the dock area.
911 OPERATOR: Does the door look like it was pried open?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There was more divers being brought out by boat.
911 OPERATOR: Does it look like you had some sort of -- someone try to enter into your house?
MISTY CROSLIN: I just hate this, man! They`re trying to ruin our whole lives!
HANK CROSLIN: They`re going to wrap it up in the next few weeks.
MISTY CROSLIN: I hope they do.
I sit and wonder every day, thinking just trying to go back and just think if I missed anything.
HANK CROSLIN: Well, they`ll get to the bottom of it eventually. But when?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m tired of -- I`m tired of suffering for something I didn`t have nothing to do with.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LALAMA: And the plot thickens in this case. I want to go right to Art Harris, investigative journalist, Artharris.com, my friend and colleague. Two more in the family now behind bars. The family that deals together -- I mean, this is not a laughing matter, but this is absolutely ridiculous.
ART HARRIS, INVESTIGATIVE JOURNALIST: Pat, there`s going to be a family reunion in the Putnam County jail, where not only Mom and Dad, Hank and Lisa are, but also Tommy Croslin and their once son-in-law, Ronald Cummings. So this is going to be very un-cozy for several people.
I can tell you, Hank and Lisa were driving in a nearby neighborhood Friday night when he got out of the car to go into a crack house and bought $20 worth of crack from an undercover officer. Now, this was just happenstance. They arrest him down the road. He tries to throw it out the window. And they now have him not only for cocaine possession, buying cocaine, they have him for evidence tampering and also for felony violation of previous probation, both of them. So they are not getting out. They have no bond right now, Pat.
LALAMA: And Marlaina Schiavo, NANCY GRACE producer, as Art mentioned, these people were on probation. Their whole family`s in trouble. You`d think they`d stay home and watch television!
MARLAINA SCHIAVO, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: You would think. And actually, Leonard Padilla, the bounty hunter who tried to bail out Misty Croslin, gave them a car so that they could -- he could enable them to get a job and see their kids and maybe make a better life for themselves.
But honestly, Pat, at this stage of the game, it really doesn`t matter. They were already out on probation for other charges, one for drugs, the other for fraud checks. This family is just deep in it.
LALAMA: Unbelievable. And there`s no bond, as we mentioned. And back to you, Art, to go to the second prong of this story, and that`s that we understand that Ronald Cummings, who is the father of little Haleigh, is just about to lock up a plea deal. Do you know anything about the details of that deal? And what does it mean to this case in the bigger picture?
HARRIS: Pat, I can tell you that they`re going back to court. He`s going back to Putnam County circuit court on August 20th to talk about this plea deal. But he`s not going to be able to get the finality or the number of years until after Misty`s sentence. That would be three days later, if she has a trial.
So right now, they have offered him 15 years on three counts, and they`re going to drop two counts of 25-year drug trafficking. So that`s what he faces if he cooperates, if he`s willing to testify against Misty. And the implication, Pat, is that he`s got to help them pressure her and anyone to get information on Haleigh. Even though law enforcement says the two cases are not related, they`re using everything they can to get information.
LALAMA: They`re probably looking for a quid pro quo -- You give me some stuff, we`ll give you some stuff back, correct?
HARRIS: Absolutely. But you know, they`re not bargaining with Ronald now because they want to see just what he`ll give them. In fact, his lawyer, Terry Shoemaker, telling me that this is going to guarantee his cooperation.
LALAMA: Unbelievable. Paul Penzone, VP of prevention programs, Childhelp.org, former sergeant, Phoenix PD, you know how this wheeling and dealing goes. I`m sure you`ve been through this before. Can this provide us any glimmer of hope? Because all these family members are behind bars. Someone will finally crack and we can get to what we need to find out, and that`s, where is that child.
PAUL PENZONE, CHILDHELP.ORG: I think law enforcement out there is doing everything possible to make that happen, but we`re talking about a den of thieves here. And I`m not sure what Ronald will have that could actually contribute to this case or that he could force Misty to turn over. But they`re going to need substantial, some type of physical evidence because you can`t trust the words of anyone involved at this point.
LALAMA: All right, we have Leonard Padilla with us now, bounty hunter. Welcome to you, and thanks for being with us. Now, my understanding from Marlaina is that you provided the car for these parents of Misty. You were hoping they`d clean up their act?
LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER: Well, at the time, it wasn`t so much to clean up their act, but it was a situation where, by them being able to visit Misty and Tommy, perhaps something productive would come of their visits with these two kids. At the time, it seemed like they were talking.
And then after a while, it became kind of a thing where they didn`t really visit them anymore and there was other things going on in their life, I think, that became more important. And the ultimate situation I think developed when they got arrested. I think they got back into drugs pretty heavy and decided, Well, we don`t want to go visit the kids anymore. And that basically was the end of it here the other day when they got arrested.
LALAMA: OK.
PADILLA: But the purpose of the car was so they`d visit the kids.
LALAMA: Got you. Christopher Amolsch -- I hope I`m pronouncing that properly -- defense attorney, as a defense attorney and sitting back and watching all this play out -- we`ve got plea deals, we`ve got these people in jail and that person in jail. As a defense attorney, what would you be doing representing any of these family members? Because think about it. If somebody gives up information, it`s only going to help your client, correct?
CHRISTOPHER AMOLSCH, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Oh, truthful information. But the reality is that you wouldn`t trust anybody in this case to tell you what time it is, or set aside anything to do with Haleigh`s disappearance. If they`re waving 25 years in front of Ronald to get him to say what they want him to say, it`s a horrendous miscarriage of justice.
LALAMA: And Joey Jackson, defense attorney, welcome. Honestly, credibility is the issue here, no matter who you`re representing. Who the heck do you believe? We`ve got failing, you know, lie detector tests. This woman`s writing (ph) out that -- I mean, it`s unbelievable. It must be such a quandary for police and anyone who`s trying to investigate this case.
JOEY JACKSON, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: It really is, Pat. And you know, this is a dream for defense attorneys because as a defense attorney, when you`re representing a client, what do you want? You want someone on the witness stand who is state`s evidence. Why? Because you could say, Sir, you`re here to testify not because you`re giving truthful information but you`re helping yourself. And if you say anything that is helpful to the prosecution, it diminishes the time you spend here. And that`s why there are credibility issues and that`s why it`s going to be problematic to use this unreliable information, Pat.
LALAMA: Dr. Janet Taylor, psychiatrist, we`re talking about a whole clan of people with history of drug buying, drug using, drug trafficking, everything you can think of. Give us -- paint a picture of the family album for us.
DR. JANET TAYLOR, PSYCHIATRIST: Well, you know what? The family album looks pretty bleak right now. I mean, if you ever wanted to understand how a 17-year-old high school dropout could become a stepmother and get into the trouble that she has, just look at her parents. And it`s an opportunity for parents to say, You know what? It`s not do as I say, not as I do. You have to do the right thing. You can`t be a drug-dealing, drug-using parent and expect to raise a child who really follows the law. It`s a disaster.
LALAMA: And back to Art Harris. Let me get the lay of the land here at the jail -- who they`ll probably name after this family ultimately. Are they separating...
HARRIS: (INAUDIBLE)
LALAMA: Yes. Exactly. Are they separating the son from the mom and the dad? How does that work?
HARRIS: Sure. Well, there`s...
LALAMA: They probably don`t want them...
HARRIS: Yes, there`s a women`s side...
LALAMA: They don`t want them to get together.
HARRIS: No, there`s a women`s side, Pat. But it`s not as if they`re charged with similar transactions. So they`re not so worried that they will compare stories. You know, for all we know, they could easily run into each other on the yard, especially Tommy and Daddy and Ronald Cummings. Now, that would be an interesting fly on the wall conversation to hear.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MISTY CROSLIN: Everybody in here is, like, Famous Misty Croslin (INAUDIBLE)
I woke up and she was gone!
CUMMINGS: I come home from work and my child was not there!
How the (EXPLETIVE DELETED) can you let my daughter get stole (EXPLETIVE DELETED)
MISTY CROSLIN: Me being in jail has nothing to do with Haleigh.
HANK CROSLIN: It`s just because of who we are. (INAUDIBLE) white trash.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HANK CROSLIN: They say you sold -- sold over 300 pills to the undercover.
MISTY CROSLIN: ... 70, 80, 90, 100.
HANK CROSLIN: Drugs are a bad business.
MISTY CROSLIN: I should have listened to you.
HANK CROSLIN: I told you it wasn`t no good.
LISA CROSLIN: I wish you would have just listened to your dad!
MISTY CROSLIN: I have a drug problem.
TOMMY CROSLIN, MISTY`S BROTHER: The damn pills ruined my life.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You know better than to do it again?
HANK CROSLIN: I tried to warn you.
MISTY CROSLIN: I`m not smoking cigarettes. I`m not smoking weed.
TOMMY CROSLIN: I want nothing to do with marijuana, no drugs around me.
HANK CROSLIN: I told you to stay away from that stupid (EXPLETIVE DELETED).
MISTY CROSLIN: Got to learn from my own mistakes.
HANK CROSLIN: They`re probably going to have us all in jail before it`s all over with. If they want to put me in jail, they`re going to put me in jail.
MISTY CROSLIN: We ain`t bad people.
HANK CROSLIN: No, we`re just stupid.
Now your brother`s (EXPLETIVE DELETED) and you`re (EXPLETIVE DELETED), and I can`t handle it, man!
MISTY CROSLIN: Stop cursing.
HANK CROSLIN: Should have listened to me.
MISTY CROSLIN: I know!
HANK CROSLIN: They got us right where they want us.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LALAMA: I`m Pat Lalama, sitting in for Nancy Grace. I want to go to Marc Klaas, president and founder of the Klaas Kids Foundation. I want to be as optimistic as possible. But this story began in February of 2009. There isn`t a suspect. There isn`t an arrest. There isn`t a lead. What can we hang onto, Marc?
MARC KLAAS, KLAAS KIDS FOUNDATION: Well, I don`t think we`re going to get anything out of these particular characters. They`ve been Van Der Sloot-ing the authorities, the media, and anybody else who will listen for a year-and-a-half now.
But I firmly believe that the key to this case lies within the community that these people came from, their friends, their associates. For instance, Ronald Cummings likes young girls. It`s obvious. We all know that. He had a baby with a 14-year-old. Misty was hardly much older than that when he got involved with her. Perhaps he has other friends that like young girls or even very young girls.
They should be looking at their friends. They should be looking at their associates. If they do that, ultimately, they`re going to find out what happened to little Haleigh.
LALAMA: Dr. Titus Duncan, general surgery, Atlanta Medical Center, the longer the clock ticks, ticks, ticks, evidence is practically impossible but for a miracle, correct?
DR. TITUS DUNCAN, ATLANTA MEDICAL CENTER: Right. The longer a person goes without being found, if there are, indeed, not -- not a lot (ph), then you`re going to have less and less clues available for you. What you`re going to eventually find, if the person -- if she is, indeed, dead -- and I hope she`s not, if she`s, indeed, dead, you`re going to find the results will be just skeleton, hair and teeth left. And so all you`re going to have is some DNA evidence that you can get. There begins to be more difficult, but we still can get that evidence to be able to help us try to solve who the person is that we`re going to find.
LALAMA: This case has just touched so many people for so long. And it`s proof in the pudding is the many callers who have questions.
Thanks for waiting. I want to start with Lisa in Ohio. Good evening, Lisa. And your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Good evening. I have a couple comments and a question. My first comment is, do they really think they`re going to get Misty to talk? She`s been to jail. She`s been in there for quite a while. She seems to have the type of personality that she might even believe her own stories.
And my second -- my question is, when they were out selling dope to undercover cops, were they supposed to be out looking for this child that they miss so much and has been gone for 18 months? And I`ve been furious since the day it happened.
LALAMA: Well, Joey Jackson, I`ll ask you first about Misty ever talking. She hasn`t talked so far. Apparently, she`s going to plead no contest in her drug cases. it doesn`t sound like suddenly, she`s going to wake up one day and say, Gee, I see the light. I`m going to say everything I know. Right?
JACKSON: Absolutely not, Pat. I think -- it`s a tough scenario because, certainly -- look, what they`re trying to do is to try to pressure her to the extent that she can to say something, to break the case so that she would otherwise come to terms or come to grips and say, Look, this is what happened. It hasn`t worked. I don`t know that it`s ever going to work. But law enforcement has to continue the pressure, and they`re going to do it by doing exactly what they`re doing now, getting the family, getting them in any way they can with respect to these drug charges or any charges, to come forward.
And you know, look, at the end of the day, we can only hope and pray that there`s some success. But I share your -- you know, I share your pessimism, Pat. I don`t think it`s likely.
LALAMA: Art Harris, investigative journalist, here`s what gets me. You`re talking about a very tiny town. You`re talking about not sophisticated people who could transport this child to another country. You`re talking about people just ridden with drug abuse, not even thinking clearly. How is it this child has not been found? How can that be?
HARRIS: This is being held closer than a CIA cell, Pat, and it`s because of fierce clan loyalty. It`s because of drugs. Police tell me that, you know, interviewing the people is like interviewing a rock. They don`t remember. Maybe now some memories coming back. Misty says that she has been squeezed harder than a Florida orange, every drop of juice gone, only pulp left. Police would say pulp fiction.
LALAMA: It just confounds me. I would have thought better in this case that we could have come up with something by now.
Nancy Grace`s brand-new book, "Death on the D-List," comes out on August 10th. To preorder your copy, go to CNN.com/nancygrace and click on Nancy`s new book. Hurry up! Order your copy of "Death on the D-List." This has got to be good. It should be another "New York Times" best- seller. Proceeds go to Wesley Glenn to give a loving home to the mentally handicapped (INAUDIBLE) Congratulations, Nancy.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Misty had been out on a drug binge for three days.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Misty Croslin is in jail on drug charges. Well, it turns out so are her parents.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re trying to bring somebody to justice for this little girl right here and her family. And that`s what this is all about.
HANK CROSLIN: They`re probably going to have us all in jail before it`s all over with.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hank and Lisa Croslin were arrested Friday.
MISTY CROSLIN: I wish I had powers, man. I would be, like, poof, out this place.
HANK CROSLIN: People make mistakes in life, yes, but nothing like they`re trying to make us out to be.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Would you leave your kids with somebody that`s all doped up?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LALAMA: Marlaina Schiavo, NANCY GRACE producer, I`ve got a tough one for you. The cops believe this is a murder, am I right?
SCHIAVO: They do. They turned this into a homicide case in April.
LALAMA: All right. Here`s what I don`t get. They know it`s a murder, yet there`s no person of interest, there`s no suspect, there`s no leads. How do they come to that conclusion?
SCHIAVO: Well, Pat, there was a lot of talk back in April. There were a lot of confessions happening back then. And they obviously found out some information, information that they weren`t sharing with the public, that led them to believe that this was now a homicide case.
Now, we know that they scoured the river where they were told the body was dumped. They never found human remains. But that hasn`t changed anything in their opinion. As a matter of fact, they asked Ronald Cummings and the biological mother of Haleigh to actually go to the courts and get a death certificate for little Haleigh. That`s how much they believe it`s a homicide.
LALAMA: Right. Very good. Art Harris, back to you. You happen to know about some pressure being placed on family members behind bars.
HARRIS: Yes, Pat, I can...
LALAMA: Tell us about that.
HARRIS: Well, I can tell you that before Hank Croslin was arrested, he`s been calling me over the last two weeks. We`ve had long talks about - - about his long drug addiction, about the problems. He`s felt desperate. Anyway, he`d been visiting Tommy in jail and said that on one visit, law enforcement told him that he had better pressure him to give them more information because they did not find the body in the river where he said it had been dumped. And he was looking at possible -- possible lethal injection, that they were going to go for murder charges against him if he didn`t cough up some information. So Hank Croslin is now likely to get another visit from law enforcement, and you can expect Mom, too.
LALAMA: And Leonard Padilla, what is your role now that all of this has happened? Are you still involved? Have you talked to these people at all?
PADILLA: Well, I talked to Lindsey (ph) here a couple days ago, which is Tommy`s ex-wife, soon to be. I spoke to Timmy`s wife up in -- she was up in New York. I believe she was...
LALAMA: But are you still involved, Leonard? Are you still involved?
PADILLA: Not to a large extent, no. I follow the case. If I thought I could do some good, I`d definitely jump in with both feet. But right now, I think they`ve got the answer in Misty. And Misty`s the only one that`s got the answer, and she`s not talking.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Two-year-old Syler Newton.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Remains missing.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Still missing.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: What appeared to be a simple missing person`s case --
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Disappeared at a local campground sleeping in his tent one moment, gone the next.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: -- has turned into something more.
DWIGHT D`EVELYN, YAVAPAI CO. SHERIFF`S OFFICE: The gal that was reported to be the mother is actually apparently in the process of adopting Syler.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I just want by baby found.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Syler, in extreme danger.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Last seen wearing only a diaper.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Cops searching by air, by land, by horse, in an effort to bring the baby boy home.
D`EVELYN: It concerns us because if we`ve done a thorough search then our belief is the child is not here or we`ve somehow missed the child. And these searches do great work. So the longer this takes the more concern we have that the child may not be here.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
PAT LALAMA, GUEST HOST: Pat Lalama in for Nancy Grace. A tragedy, absolute tragedy.
Christina Estes, reporter, Newstalk 550, KFYI. Do I have it correct that this child was with the woman who was trying or in the process of adopting him?
CHRISTINA ESTES, REPORTER, NEWSTALK 550 KFYI: That`s exactly right. He was with the custodial mother, as well as her own two children, and her mother. And what`s new just in the last few minutes -- we got an update from the sheriff`s office. And a couple of new things.
The FBI has been brought into the case. They tell us the custodial family either has or will shortly take lie detector tests and also that they have located the biological mother and have interviewed her.
LALAMA: All right, Marc Klaas, president and founder of the KlaasKids Foundation. We were having this debate right before the show. Does a 2- year-old crawl out of a tent in the middle of the night?
I can see a possibility for sure. Others say no way, they`d be too afraid. What`s your take?
MARC KLAAS, PRESIDENT AND FOUNDER, KLAASKIDS FOUNDATION: I think it`s entirely possible. I don`t know that little kids have that kind of fear. I think they are, you know, looking at the world as their oyster and are willing to explore it.
Remember we had a case not long ago, maybe a year or so ago on this show, where a little boy walked out of his back door into the woods. And it took several days for law enforcement to find him. And I believe he too was barefoot.
Did this actually happen? I don`t know. But they`ve got great search-and-rescue teams. They`ve got every search-and-rescue team in the state at this location now. And if they continue to do the grid searches and if he did walk away, eventually they`ll find him.
We know that that doesn`t always happen on the first pass. It`s a big country. It`s a little tiny boy. But they`ll just continue to do it. Hopefully they`ll find him.
Obviously there are some other possibilities, but this is one that has to be exhausted right now.
LALAMA: Dr. Titus Duncan, general surgery, Atlanta Medical Center, time is of the essence. I know they`ve had bloodhounds out that I -- I`m pretty sure picked up his scent and lost it.
What must -- what are we looking for out there that will tie -- the law enforcement or searchers to finding this little child?
DR. TITUS DUNCAN, M.D., GENERAL SURGERY, ATLANTA MEDICAL CENTER: Well, you know, there is a limited amount of time because you know, children become dehydrated, they become hungry a lot sooner than adults.
A child`s body is mostly made up of water so they can become dehydrated in a very, very short period of time. So they do have a very limited time. They have around about 48 hours or 72 hours before they get dehydrated.
Dehydration will then lead to shock and things of that nature. But kids can go for about seven days without any food. But the fact is, that they need the water. And so a kid -- this kid has to be found fairly quickly before something bad happens to him. Just from the shock alone.
LALAMA: Wow, it`s just so heartbreaking.
Paul Penzone, vice president of Prevention Programs, Childhelp.org, former sergeant, Phoenix PD. From your perspective, it took a little while before law enforcement released the names of the would-be adoptive mother and the biological mother.
Is there anything to read into that?
PAUL PENZONE, DIRECT OF PREVENTION PROGRAMS, CHILDHELP.ORG, FMR. SERGEANT, PHOENIX PD: No, that`s common practice because what want to do is make sure that they`re the ones who are able to locate those folks first and question them before there is any outside pressure or other issues going on.
I`m very familiar with this terrain. I went to college not too far from there. It`s a tough time in Arizona right now. The temperatures are extremely high. We have monsoon season so I don`t think -- I mean, I`ll be real surprised if the child did wander off far.
It`s very difficult land to navigate. My bigger concern is that somebody got into that tent and there are some factors involved.
LALAMA: Christopher Amolsch, defense attorney, would these mothers have any need to get themselves some legal protection at this point?
CHRISTOPHER AMOLSCH, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, you always want to be careful when you`re speaking to the police about anything. But at this point there`s nothing to indicate there`s been any foul play other than a missing child.
As horrible as that is, accidents do happen. Kids do wander off. And it looks like they`re trying to do everything they can to participate in the investigation or taking lie detector tests. I`m not sure what else they could really do.
LALAMA: Dr. Janet Taylor, psychologist, inside the minds of both mothers -- the would-be adoptive mother, the biological mother. What hell this must be?
DR. JANET TAYLOR, PSYCHIATRIST: Well, it has to be. I think from -- it would be helpful to know the relationship between the two and how, you know, this mother happened -- the biological mother happened to give up her child to this mother.
And also the relationship that the custodial mother has with her own children. There`s a history of a previous arrest, any drug use, and exactly what was going on with that relationship?
LALAMA: And, I want to go to Connie in New York, a caller who`s been waiting quite patiently.
Connie, your question, please.
CONNIE, CALLER FROM NEW YORK: I would look to know about the missing little boy, 2 years old. Now what if --
LALAMA: Right.
CONNIE: To me it seems to me that they could have had another person there that want to adopt the child?
LALAMA: I`m -- Paul Penzone, did you hear that question?
PENZONE: Sorry. I apologize, I didn`t understand the question.
LALAMA: All right. Could you -- Connie, one more time with the question, please?
CONNIE: I was saying about the 2-year-old child.
LALAMA: Yes.
CONNIE: Couldn`t there have been other people that had wanted to adopt the child? Instead of the one person?
(CROSSTALK)
LALAMA: All right. So, Joey Jackson, I guess what Connie is trying to ask is, could there have been some dispute between potential parents here?
JOEY JACKSON, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I mean maybe. Listen. There could have been a number of things. At this point it`s speculation. I assume that there could have been a numerous people who wanted to adopt the child. I think the problem here is that the adoption had not yet taken place. And therefore they were in the process.
And so, you know, the other issue, quite frankly, is there is some question as to whether this parent had filed a false report previously and whether because of that there may be some foul play. So if the caller is inquiring, you know, maybe there was some dispute going on would there be a motivation on the custodial parent`s part to perhaps fabricate things, that certainly is a possibility.
LALAMA: Right. And we don`t know any of that yet.
JACKSON: Right.
LALAMA: What we do know is that we need to find this child.
And Christina Estes, explain the terrain, what`s the temperature? What -- the baby was just wearing a diaper? What -- give me a sense of the surroundings.
ESTES: Well, as Paul mentioned, it`s hot and it`s humid here because we are in monsoon season. That area is beautiful, but it`s also rugged. There is a creek not far from the campsite area. A lot of cacti, a lot of rock, a lot of brush.
So it`s certainly not an area you want a 2-year-old walking around all alone in a diaper.
LALAMA: Marc Klaas, what -- what is the best thing that anyone can do now to help solve this case? What can the viewers do? What can all of us do?
KLAAS: Sure. Well, starting -- starting at the location itself. Anybody else that was camping there during that evening needs to be talking to law enforcement and giving them every minute detail of what went down.
The family has to submit themselves to the polygraph, as they said they would, they have to cooperate with law enforcement, the general public has to be on the lookout for this little child. Perhaps he was snatched by somebody. Perhaps he is en route to some place.
LALAMA: Paul Penzone, former sergeant, Phoenix PD, is there anything particularly cumbersome for law enforcement when trying to find a child?
PENZONE: Absolutely. Obviously, the terrain, as described a few times, is so difficult, but what I think they`re going to have to do is continue with their search as they are, with -- you know, the thought that maybe the child did get out of the tent and walk not to far a distance, but some distance.
But additionally you`re going to have to take that tent and search it inside and out for any DNA evidence to see if there`s any strangers that may have left something. They haven`t gone into the tent, if not family related.
Check the vehicles. And it`s a very serene area, so if anybody came or left during that late time, early in the morning, it would have cause a little bit of disturbance. And usually campers will hear those kinds of things. So you`d have to communicate very clearly, (INAUDIBLE) any detail that might have been out of the ordinary that took place that evening.
LALAMA: And Christina Estes, they have interviewed quite a few people in the area, correct?
ESTES: Absolutely. That was one of the first things deputies did when they arrived. The custodial mother says that she saw Syler last -- at 12:30 a.m. on Sunday. She says around 1:45 she realized he was not in the tent with one of her children where he had been sleeping.
She says they looked around immediately and then called 911. Deputies say they got there at 3:00 a.m. and interviewed about 25 people in the immediate area. People reported seeing him Saturday night but not Sunday morning.
LALAMA: So heartbreaking.
Nancy Grace`s brand new book, "Death on the D-List" comes out on August 10th. To preorder your copy go to CNN.com/Nancygrace and click on Nancy`s new book.
Hurry, do it now. Order your copy of "Death on the D-List." It should be another "The New York Times" best-seller. Of course it will. Not a question.
Proceeds go to Wesley Glenn to give a loving home to the mentally handicapped who need one.
Congratulations to you, Nancy.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The large scale search effort.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Little Syler Newton.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Syler Newton was last seen at his tent on a camping outing late Saturday.
D`EVELYN: He is 2 years of age. He`s wearing only a diaper.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There is a lot of possibilities.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The little boy came down with his family from Flagstaff.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Fifty miles south of Flagstaff, Arizona.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Camping at the Beaver Creek Campgrounds.
D`EVELYN: The gal that was reported to be the mother is actually in the process of adopting Syler.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The real mom doesn`t really have any connection with him.
D`EVELYN: The sky is the limit on where this kid could be.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m really, really scared because he`s always loved the water.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Vanishing in the middle of the night.
D`EVELYN: We`re using bloodhounds and other tracking teams to try to figure out where he went.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s the worst. We`re preparing for the worst right now.
D`EVELYN: Until we speak to the biological mother, we just don`t know the full story.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
LALAMA: Oh, my goodness. I`m Pat Lalama sitting in for Nancy Grace. I want to clarify one thing. Now police have identified the would-be adoptive mother and her mother who were both at the campsite.
We know that there were three children also aside from little Syler, but they have not identified the biological mom.
And, Christopher Amolsch, I`m just wondering is there any reason why they wouldn`t tell us who is the biomom at this point?
AMOLSCH: The only reason they wouldn`t is if they feel it will get in the way of their investigation. If the biomom is somebody they want to isolate, be able to question without, you know, the media pouring all over her or trying to get her story straight. That would be the reason. And once they`ve got a hold on what her story is then they`ll release her name.
LALAMA: All right. I want to go to another caller. We have Lauren waiting in Texas.
Good evening, Lauren, your question, please.
LAUREN, CALLER FROM TEXAS: Good evening. I was just wondering. I know that they were camping, but why would they have a baby in a tent?
LALAMA: Well, Marc Klaas, president/founder of the KlaasKids Foundation. Is there anything untoward about having a 2-year-old with the older siblings while the adults are in another tent?
KLAAS: You know, Pat, in all of these cases you always want to find the nuggets, the lessons learned so that future situations are going to be prevented. And perhaps a very simple lesson in this particular case is if you have small children and that you are camping in tents that those children should be in the tent with you and that in fact perhaps an adult should be sleeping in the door way or the entrance to the tent to ensure that little kids don`t walk out.
LALAMA: Dr. Titus Duncan, again, I know you talked about dehydration and hunger, I want to hope for the best for this little guy. How long before things start to get really tough on him in terms of survival?
DUNCAN: Well, like I said if he didn`t have any sort of hydration over the period of 48 to 72 hours, he is going to go into some shock. His body surface area and in children their metabolism is a lot faster. Their body surface area is much more exposed. So they need more volume, they need more fluid, and if they don`t get that then they`re going to have significant problems.
Food is not much -- as much an issue. It is an issue but it`s not as much. But if they don`t have hydration over a period of time then they go into shock, they become -- and especially in that environment, if there is a lot of heat, then it accelerates the entire process and the whole process can become detrimental quite quickly.
LALAMA: And Christina Estes, we`re talking about temperatures of 97, reaching heights of 97. And you said it`s also humid, these are really tough conditions. And tell me about Beaver Creek. Is it -- I`m told it`s rustic. There are no surveillance cameras that might help with the search?
ESTES: Yes, this campground is very no frills, no electricity, no utility hook-ups, 13 campsites there. Some grills, some picnic tables. And the creek is described as being within steps of the campsite. Now whether it`s within steps of the campsite where little Syler was we don`t know. But it`s very close to the campsite area.
LALAMA: Let me take another caller. We have Cookie in Pennsylvania.
Good evening, Cookie, your question.
COOKIE, CALLER FROM PENNSYLVANIA: Yes, in the previous conversation you had said that there was some contention between the biomom and the adoptive mom. Could the biomom have followed them there with some friends? And --
LALAMA: Well, let -- that`s a very good question. But let`s just make one thing clear. We don`t know at this point that there is any problem between the two mothers, Dr. Janet Taylor, or the would-be adoptive mother and biological mother.
There could be in certain circumstances, right? There could be tension and stress when a woman chooses to give up a child to another adoptive mother, perhaps guilt or regrets.
TAYLOR: Right. Exactly. And you have to know the circumstances. That information we don`t know yet. And I think it`s an excellent question to know what that history is and how across reportedly state lines an adoptive mother, custodial mother was able to adopt a baby that --- across state lines.
So there`s a lot more information that needs to be known. But the bottom line is they have to find this little child because time is of the essence.
LALAMA: And Paul Penzone, former sergeant, Phoenix PD, now vice president of Prevention Programs, Childhelp.org. You have probably seen cases such as this. I mean oftentimes when one chooses to give up a child it`s possible -- we don`t know. But there could be possibly foul play or are we jumping -- jumping the gun on that?
PENZONE: No, I think that`s one of the things that really makes this complex. We`re looking at the factors of dealing with those circumstances in that setting but also this child coming from some what is most likely some kind of tumultuous background.
Child often involved a lot of the circumstances so law enforcement has to do two things, search-and-rescue, and as may have stated, it has to happen very quickly because of the conditions. But at the same time backgrounds on everyone, anyone that might be remotely close to that child including the family that the child was spending time with.
Because if there are any other factors that we`re unaware of that could have contributed to -- if this is an abduction -- you want to be able to be ahead of that as soon as possible. So there`s a lot to do in a very short time frame.
LALAMA: And Christina Estes, what -- do we know anything at all about the biological mother?
ESTES: No, we don`t. Police right now are not releasing her name. All that we know is that about a half-hour ago they told us they have located her and they have interviewed her. However they are not disclosing details of that interview.
LALAMA: And one thing I`m not certain about. The early reports referred to the would-be adoptive mother as the custodial parent. Now was she a foster parent? Did she have authority over this child at this particular time?
Why was the child living with her if not yet adopted?
ESTES: We`re still sort of waiting to get that information from police. What we do know is when they initially arrived, Christina Priem, who`s been identified as the custodial mother, told the sheriff`s deputies that she was Syler`s mother and then corrected and at some point identified herself as the custodial mother, and said that she had been caring for him for several months.
So at that point, the investigators wanted to contact, obviously, his biological mother to figure out if the stories matched up and what his custody situation really is.
LALAMA: Right. And, Joey Jackson, you know, some people were a little bit curious that she did call and refer to herself as the mother. I think that makes sense. I`m not going to dog her for that.
Because if she`s been with the child and she wants to be the mother, it seems to me if you`re in a panicked state, the first thing you`re going to say is my child is missing.
JACKSON: One hundred percent. And at some point she indeed would be the actual mother. This is a transitionary period. The legal papers and that type thing would be filed and ultimately she would be the parent.
Now, you know, let`s hope -- and I know the doctor has been talking about the conditions and that type of thing. Let`s hope that the conditions and that the kid is OK. You know, it could very well be that the kid was kidnapped. We just don`t know that information but hopefully time will reveal.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Large scale search effort.
D`EVELYN: We have over 50 folks looking for the child.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Two-year-old Syler Newton.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The last time anyone saw the toddler was just after midnight Sunday morning.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: He disappeared from the campground, 50 miles south of Flagstaff, Arizona.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: By 1:30, he was gone.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: This little boy --
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Two-year-old --
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Little Syler Newton.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Still missing.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Camping at the Beaver Creek campgrounds.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We`re all really, really scared because he`s only 20 pounds.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Vanishing in the middle of the night.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He could have been carried away easily. He could have froze last night, gotten heat stroke today.
D`EVELYN: The longer this takes, the more concern we have that the child may not be here.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
LALAMA: I`m Pat Lalama sitting in for Nancy Grace.
I just have to wonder, Marc Klaas, the cops took away two automobiles belonging to the family. What did they hope to find inside those vehicles?
KLAAS: Well, what one doesn`t know -- Pat, I believe that the local authorities are really great at search and rescue, but I believe that I heard the FBI has been brought in, and the FBI has expertise in all other aspects of missing person cases.
They can do background checks. They can do interrogations. They can do forensics. It seems to me that the authorities have got this case covered as well as they possibly can at this time, and hopefully that will result in a good resolution.
LALAMA: Paul Penzone, former sergeant, Phoenix PD, the FBI doesn`t get involved in every missing child case, does it?
PENZONE: No. They seek extreme circumstances where they feel their expertise are going to contribute to what`s going on. And this is such a high sense of urgency, they probably felt it was best to get involved very early on.
Those vehicles are important, if I could just touch on that. Again, just like I said with the tents, you`re going to look for any kind of evidence. If someone -- if there was a stranger involved they walked by and touched the car, left fingerprints behind. So they will analyze that car.
It`s no different than any other crime scene to see if they can find any shred of evidence that might lead them to someone who might have been involved if there`s an abduction or get DNA evidence on everybody that was in the campsite that might have been around that vehicle.
LALAMA: Well, let`s hope for the best for this little guy.
Tonight, let`s stop to remember Army Specialist Robert McNail, 30 of Meridian, Mississippi killed in Iraq. He was awarded the Bronze Star and the Mississippi Medal of Valor.
He loved fishing and camping and dreamed of becoming a nurse. He leaves behind grieving parents Marvin and Linda, brother Brian, son Edward.
Robert McNail, American hero.
Thank you to all our guests and you at home for being with us. And please remember Nancy Grace`s brand new book, "Death on the D-List." It`s going to be out August 10th. You can preorder. Go straight to CNN.com/Nancygrace.
Proceeds go to Wesley Glenn to give a loving home to the mentally handicapped who need one.
See you tomorrow night, 8:00 p.m. sharp Eastern. Until then, good night, everyone.
END
