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Nancy Grace
Bio Mom Thinks Stepmom "Stashed" Kyron Somewhere
Aired July 28, 2010 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JEAN CASAREZ, GUEST HOST: We begin tonight with breaking news. Live to rural Oregon and the mystery surrounding the disappearance of little Kyron Horman. Stepmother Terri Horman walks 7-year-old Kyron down the hall of his elementary school, and he`s never seen again. Tonight, reports Kyron`s mother, Desiree Young, believes stepmother Terri Horman has stashed the boy somewhere. Stashed the boy? Is Kyron Horman being concealed, held against his will? Where could he be hidden?
And tonight, Kyron`s mother, Desiree Young, tells "The Oregonian" newspaper the day Kyron disappeared, she received multiple e-mails from stepmother Terri Horman. Well, those e-mails have now roused her suspicion. What were those e-mails like? What was in them? What has happened to little Kyron Horman?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: New details in the case of missing 7-year-old Oregon boy Kyron Horman.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We believe that Kyron`s disappearance involves criminal behavior.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Investigators have focused intently on Kyron`s stepmother, Terri Horman.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I know she`s involved.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No criminal charges have been filed. No suspects have been named.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Terri, do you know where Kyron is? Can you tell the world something? Can you please tell the world something?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Significant progress in this case is occurring and the tips are being reviewed.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... really believing in my heart that he`s still out there, and we need to continue to push to find him.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Somebody stepped up and put another $25,000 in that reward fund.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Their goals remain the same as ours and are confident that they will bring him home soon.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The $50,000 in reward money is offered for specific information that leads us to Kyron.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No suspects have been named. No criminal charges have been filed.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We remain steadfast, determined and focused in our work to bring Kyron home to his family.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CASAREZ: And also tonight, Amber Alert. A beautiful 16-year-old Texas girl disappears from home. Police believe Alyssa Rehfield is with a man more than twice her age that she met on the Internet, 36-year-old David Karan. We need your help tonight. Bring Alyssa back home.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: An Amber Alert has been issued for 16-year-old Alyssa Rehfield.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There was a possibility that Alyssa Rehfield was at a hotel.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... disappeared from her own home...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: -3030 Sam Houston Toll Road, the Studio 6 Motel...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Cops say she is likely with a man she met on the Internet...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... an individual by the name of David Karan.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... twice her age...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... a white male, 36 years of age...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police believe they met on a social gaming site.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... Room 353...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Law enforcement on the lookout for a silver 1995 Ford Aspire (ph).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And we have reason to believe that our missing person, Alyssa, was there with him.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Cops believe she`s with David Karan, a man 20 years older.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That rings alarms to us.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She`s only 16 years old.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And we act on it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CASAREZ: Good evening. I`m Jean Casarez of the legal network "In Session" on the truTV network, in for Nancy Grace tonight. Thank you so much for joining us. Breaking news tonight. Reports are that Kyron`s mother, Desiree Young -- she believes stepmother Terri Horman stashed the boy somewhere. Is Kyron Horman being concealed, held against his will? Where could he be hidden?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Since Kyron`s disappearance on June 4th...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We love you, Kyron.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... this investigation has developed into the largest search effort in Oregon`s history.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is little Kyron Horman the victim of a planned abduction?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The reward in the search for 7-year-old Kyron Horman has been doubled to $50,000.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In a new "People" magazine article, Kyron`s mom, Desiree Young, now claims his stepmother, Terri Horman, has the 7-year-old, quote, unquote, "stashed somewhere."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No one has been charged in this case.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We feel the investigation continues to be on track.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Law enforcement have been focusing a lot of attention on one of Terri Horman`s friends.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Her name is Dede Spicher.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Dede Spicher was subpoenaed by a grand jury investigating Kyron`s disappearance.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s extremely frustrating that she is not cooperating.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She was doing gardening work for a home owner in northwest Portland on the day Kyron disappeared and abruptly left the house.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The home owner tried to reach Spicher by cell phone during that time but got no answer.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... biological parents imploring Terri Horman`s good friend, Dede Spicher, to cooperate with detectives.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She, Spicher, has not only been in close communication with Terri but is providing Terri with support and advice that is not in the best interests of our son.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So angry, I don`t even have words.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He`s still out there. He`s still out there. We just need to find him.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CASAREZ: Let us go straight out live to Lacey Evans, reporter for KXL Newsradio, standing by in Portland, Oregon. Lacey, what is Desiree Young saying at this point?
LACEY EVANS, KXL NEWSRADIO: Well, as you mentioned, in the "People" magazine article, she claims that Kyron is stashed somewhere. She has maintained this whole time that he`s been missing, that he is still alive and that he, like you said, is somewhere hidden. She has maintained that Terri Horman is possibly the one doing that. Unfortunately, we have not been able to confirm or deny that through investigators. They`re not releasing any sort of information on that ground.
CASAREZ: You know, Lacey, they`re not. But to Ellie Jostad, here is a recurring theme that I have seen in this case. The family, they are talking. But every time almost that they talk, they begin by saying, We have been briefed by law enforcement, and then they go on to what they have to say. And yesterday, Ellie, in that press conference, I thought it spoke volumes because you saw the family and you saw police, sheriff`s deputies and investigators...
ELLIE JOSTAD, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Right.
CASAREZ: ... standing side by side in unison. What else do you know?
JOSTAD: Right. You`re right. Well, and the thing, too, is when we first found out that there was any sort of rift amongst the family members, that family members thought that Terri Horman was acting suspiciously, was back -- and you`ll remember this -- when the mother, the stepfather and Kyron`s father, Kaine, all sent out a statement, and noticeably absent was Terri Horman`s name from that.
Now yesterday, Desiree Young gave a very emotional statement and again asserting that she believes that Kyron is still alive. She said, Hold out hope, we want to bring you home.
CASAREZ: To C.W. Jensen, retired Portland police chief (SIC). You are there in Portland, Oregon. With all of your experience, what do you think? Do you think the family is just being optimistic, or are they so close to the information that`s being received that what they are saying has credibility?
C.W. JENSEN, FORMER RETIRED PORTLAND POLICE CAPTAIN: I think that they`re saying what every parent would say under that circumstance. I think any parent would say to the -- they`ve found out something different, that they believe their child was still safe. That scenario, unfortunately, is the least likely.
Terri Horman has shown herself to be somewhat clumsy in her conversations with other people, sexting and doing all that kind of stuff, and you`d have to make a very large leap that someone was assisting her. And what would be their motive or their reward?
CASAREZ: We are taking your calls live tonight. But first back to Ellie Jostad. What is this about e-mails? Because Desiree Young is also talking about an e-mail exchange that she had with Terri Horman...
JOSTAD: Right.
CASAREZ: ... on the 4th of June?
JOSTAD: Right. Right. The day that little Kyron went missing, Desiree Young says that she exchanged a series of e-mails with Terri Horman. Now, she says that wasn`t that unusual. She says that they would talk sometimes four or five times a day over e-mail. But she said, usually, Terri Horman would send her these long, wordy e-mails. However, that day, she said she was firing off very short, one-sentence e-mails to her, which she now, looking back, thinks was odd.
CASAREZ: That is very odd. Back to C.W. Jensen, retired Portland police chief (SIC). What are your thoughts there, that all of a sudden, the demeanor changes? Would you as law enforcement be looking at that because there could be some type of a message?
JENSEN: Well, obviously, you`re going to be looking at the times that they were sent, the content. You have to go with the mother`s gut instinct, I think. And this is just one more goofy coincidence involving Terri Horman on the day that Kyron disappeared. And it`s one more suspicious thing.
CASAREZ: You know, Captain Jensen, let`s listen. We have got an excerpt from "The Oregonian." It`s audio from "The Oregonian" on this issue. Let`s let everybody listen to it.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
DESIREE YOUNG, KYRON`S MOTHER: The only thing I can say to that is she was very communicative with me that particular day, which isn`t out of the ordinary. Sometimes I talk on her e-mail with her five times a day. It depends on the day. But she was very short and to the point, which is very unusual for her. A one-sentence e-mail she`d shoot off to me. She e- mailed me, like, three or four times that day, which is kind of strange. Normally, it`s a wordy e-mail. It`s talking...
(CROSSTALK)
YOUNG: ... you know, just chit-chatting back and forth.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CASAREZ: So that is audio from Kyron Horman`s mother, birth mother, Desiree Young, from "The Oregonian" newspaper in Oregon. And what she`s saying is, on that day, on June 4th, there was a change, a change on that particular day of how she communicated with her. I think law enforcement would look upon that as significant.
We are taking your calls live tonight. First of all, to Cathy in Texas. Hi, Cathy.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Jean. Thanks for taking my call.
CASAREZ: Oh, you`re very welcome. What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m sorry. I have a question. If someone was keeping Kyron, wouldn`t this person be going to jail? I mean, isn`t that, like, kidnapping?
CASAREZ: Yes! You know, Cathy in Texas, you`ve got a point right there. Let`s go to the lawyers, Eleanor Odom, sex crimes prosecutor out of Atlanta, Randy Kessler, defense attorney out of Atlanta, and Peter Odom, defense attorney out of the great city of Atlanta.
First of all, Eleanor Odom, yes, if somebody is keeping him right now and he`s alive, that`s a crime. And that`s a class A crime.
ELEANOR ODOM, PROSECUTOR: Exactly. It would be kidnapping, Jean. And I don`t know why anybody would keep him with all this publicity going on. And there`s absolutely no evidence right now that there`s someone else involved. I think it`s mere speculation. But certainly, they could face numerous charges other than kidnapping, perhaps a cruelty to children charge and a deprivation charge.
CASAREZ: You know, to Randy Kessler, defense attorney, I guess maybe it is hopeful thinking, wishful thinking. And we think about Casey Anthony. Remember George and Cindy? I mean, for months, they believed that she was alive when the evidence just wasn`t pointing in that direction.
But here`s the thing that stops me. Because this family is so close to law enforcement and law enforcement has alluded the same thing in many of the statements they`ve made, do you think they know more than what we know and there could be some credible evidence toward that direction?
RANDY KESSLER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, I hope they know more than we know. And you know, there`s always hope. And you know, it`s happened before. People have been found alive. And to say there`s no one else involved -- she came up with a lot of money for a defense lawyer. Where did she get that money? Is somebody paying for her so that they get caught? You know, let her stay out there. Don`t arrest her, and maybe she`ll step in it, like other people have done in the past, Ron Cummings (ph), et cetera.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We love you, Kyron. Never give up hope! We are all coming to get you, to bring you home.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We go live to rural Oregon.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... the 4th of June...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... the mystery surrounding the disappearance of little Kyron Horman.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The key date is June 4th.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Kyron vanished the 4th of June after his school science fair.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A suspect hasn`t been named in this case, remember, but there`s been a lot of attention on Kyron`s stepmother, Terri Horman.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... Dede Spicher...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Dede Spicher is a very close friend of Terri Horman.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She`s become a new focus of the Kyron investigation.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Dede Spicher was subpoenaed by a grand jury investigating Kyron`s disappearance.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... the woman the Hormans say refuses to cooperate with the search for their son, Kyron...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) tell us anything about these allegations?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "The Oregonian" newspaper reports Spicher was spotted by a witness leaving her gardening job for that 90 minutes the day Kyron disappeared.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We love you, Kyron.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you know if Terri is hiding something? Were you with her on June 4th?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The key date is June 4th.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Never give up hope! We are all coming to get you, to bring you home.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CASAREZ: Oh! I`m Jean Casarez of "In Session," in tonight for Nancy Grace. You know, little Kyron Horman, he had his glasses, his little thick glasses, and he had his CSI T-shirt on. That`s the last thing he was ever seen in because he had his red frog science experiment at school and he was never seen again. But his clothes have never been found, his glasses never found, his shoes. Nothing has been found from Kyron Horman.
To Lacey Evans, reporter KXL Newsradio in Portland. You are live there in Portland. You know, we have the tape of Dede Spicher, the very close friend of Terri Horman, that she was summoned to the courthouse, subpoenaed, we would say, to appear before the grand jury. Her attorney has confirmed with us that she didn`t answer any questions, so the video showed her leaving.
Has anybody else been coming to the courthouse to testify before the grand jury, maybe the landscaper that allegedly, according to legal documents, was solicited to kill Kaine Horman, or maybe the childhood high school chum, Michael Cook (ph), who was found later to be sexting, allegedly, with Terri Horman? Anybody else?
EVANS: No, not that we`re aware of. And Kaine Horman and Desiree Young have not (INAUDIBLE) they`ve been called to the grand jury, either. And in fact, we don`t even know what this grand jury is for, who it`s indicting, whether it`s Terri Horman or whether it`s Dede Spicher for something that she may know or may have done here.
CASAREZ: All right. Lots of questions, you`re right. To Vanessa in Washington, the state of Washington. Hi, Vanessa.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi. My question is, have they tried looking here in the state of Washington, like in the Columbia River gorge, for anything? Or also, Vancouver is close by. But I would think, why keep the child, if he is still alive, in Oregon? And bring him to Washington, where maybe they could get him up to Canada.
CASAREZ: Good point. You know, as you were talking, it just clicked in. You`re right next door to Oregon.
To C.W. Jensen, retired Portland police captain. You`re so aware of situations like this. You are right here, there in the area. We know how many agencies are involved. It is an immense amount of agencies. Are they going out of state, you believe, to do searches for this young man?
JENSEN: Oh, you know, I think that they have a real idea of where Terri Horman was that day and they`ve targeted certain areas around Portland. They may have gone to Vancouver. I`m not sure. But they`re doing searches based on an educated reason, not just throwing darts at a map.
CASAREZ: Right. To Dr. Leigh Vinocur, M.D., emergency room physician, above any other thing, in Baltimore, Maryland. Here`s what really scares me. The pinging of her phone is alleged to have been at Sauvie Island, which is an island not that far away from the school on that day, although -- and this is something that Desiree Young and her ex- husband have said -- she said she was at other places. So inconsistencies right there. The Columbia River is very, very close, a river with very, very swift currents.
If that little boy ended up in the river, would there be remains of him anywhere that could be found? And how would they look to find that at this point?
DR. LEIGH VINOCUR, EMERGENCY ROOM PHYSICIAN: Well, I mean, it depends, you know, the condition, if the body was put in the river, how far it was carried down, the current? Did it get entangled in anything when it was in the river. But there are...
CASAREZ: But the clothes would be found, right? Wouldn`t the clothes be found?
VINOCUR: Sometimes the clothes are found, but there are instances in very fast-running currents in certain places, where sometimes people get carried away and they`re not found for, you know, other reasons. But sometimes the clothes are found and brought up by the current. But it really depends on what happened to the body and the current that day and...
CASAREZ: Very quickly to Lacey Evans in Portland. They searched that river, right, search groups?
EVANS: They did. They searched the river and the channel on Sauvie Island, like you mentioned. They have not told us the results of those searches, but they`ve been there several times...
CASAREZ: And nothing was...
EVANS: ... with lots of crews.
CASAREZ: ... was found! And now Desiree Young says she believes that little boy has been stashed.
Nancy Grace`s brand-new book, "Death on the D-List," it`s going to be out on August 10th. To preorder your copy, go to CNN.com/nancygrace and click on Nancy`s new book. Hurry. Order your copy, "Death on the D-List." It should be and will be another "New York Times`" best-seller. Proceeds go to Wesley Glenn, to give a loving home to the mentally handicapped who need one. We are so proud of you, Nancy Grace.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Since Kyron`s disappearance on June 4th, this investigation has developed into the largest search effort in Oregon`s history.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... stay focused on him and bringing him home...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The investigators didn`t elaborate on what they call significant developments in the case.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They would only say they`re determined to reach a successful solution.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Significant progress in this case is occurring and the tips are being reviewed.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No criminal charges have been filed. No suspects have been named.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Our goals are to expedite the search for Kyron and to bring justice to any person responsible for his disappearance.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CASAREZ: I`m Jean Casarez of "In Session," in for Nancy Grace tonight. Has Kyron Horman been stashed? That`s what Desiree Young is telling "People" magazine.
To the callers tonight. Cindy in Ohio. Hi, Cindy.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Jean. How are you?
CASAREZ: I`m fine. I`m fine. I`m very concerned about this little boy. It just gets me. Your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, so am I. He`s such a cute little thing.
CASAREZ: Yes. I know.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And my prayers go out to his family.
CASAREZ: Yes. Yes. Your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK, my question is, the $350,000 that Terri had gotten and given to her attorney -- is it possible that she has had him maybe privately adopted and that`s how she got that $350,000?
CASAREZ: Well, it`s interesting you ask that question. Right before air, we got a brand-new legal document -- I love to look at the legal documents because that is what one side or another is alleging. But it`s a sworn legal document. What we read in this document -- and it has to do with she`s not going to contest the divorce. That`s what the document is all about. But it says, by her attorney, that the $350,000 is much, much more than the criminal lawyer was given, and it wasn`t her money, it was someone else`s money. So that`s -- those are the facts, according to Terri Horman, at this point, through a legal document.
I want to go to Lillian Glass, psychologist, body language expert, author of "Toxic People," out of Los Angeles. What is the grieving process like for this family? Is it as such that they would believe he`s alive when law enforcement is telling them otherwise, or do they know something that we don`t?
LILLIAN GLASS, PSYCHOLOGIST: I think there`s so much confusion. And it just must be agonizing. And for the first time, Kyron`s biological mother really let it out emotionally when she was talking. And you could really tell. This is such a sad thing because the emotions are going up and down, and we really don`t know what`s happened. So they can`t grieve properly.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... the last known person to see little Kyron alive...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She was the first person to pick him up, along with his father, at 3:45.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... the worst hell I`ve ever experienced.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We will not stop until we find him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Kyron`s parents say Spicher is hurting the investigation. They accuse her of being uncooperative with police and urging others to do the same.
DESIREE YOUNG, MOTHER OF MISSING 7-YR-OLD BOY, KYRON HORMAN: We love him and that we need him home and that we`re just -- we`re just not a family without him.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The mother of a missing 7-year-old Oregon boy says it`s been, quote, "the worst hell a parent could ever feel."
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Investigators say Kyron`s stepmom brought him to school Friday morning and took this picture of him at Skyline science fair and last saw Kyron near his classroom at about 11:45.
KAINE HORMAN, FATHER OF MISSING 7-YR-OLD BOY, KYRON HORMAN: I love you and I miss you. And I will do anything to trade places and to get you home.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Neighbors have say police have searched her Tualatin condo and following Kyron`s disappearance, the boy`s parents say she has been in close communication with Kaine`s estranged wife, Terri, but Dede`s family has a hard time believing she has anything to do with the boy`s disappearance.
HORMAN: And we`ll keep up the search and we will not stop until we find you.
YOUNG: I wish I could be there to protect him and bring him home.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
JEAN CASAREZ, GUEST HOST: I`m Jean Casarez of "In Session" on the truTV network in for Nancy Grace tonight.
You know the family of Kyron Horman, they`re very, very careful with their words, and they seem to be walking hand in hand with law enforcement.
To Lacy Evans, reporter of KXAL Newsradio in Portland, Desiree Young has said to "People" magazine that is something we need to just stop and listen to. What`s she saying?
LACY EVANS, REPORTER, KXAL NEWSRADIO: Oh, she said that -- that she thinks Kyron is stashed somewhere. We don`t know where. We don`t know where he could be hiding. She doesn`t elaborate on that. But -- and Multnomah County sheriff`s deputies haven`t confirmed that either.
CASAREZ: Ellie Jostad, this is a very important word right here. She isn`t just saying, oh, we hope he comes back, we hope we see him. She`s saying "stashed."
ELLIE JOSTAD, NANCY GRACE CHIEF EDITORIAL PRODUCER: Mm-hmm. Right. That`s right. And also Kaine Horman said that he believes that she has a plan and that Terri Horman is still executing that plan.
As well, in that "Oregonian" interview, they said -- the reporter asked what do you believe Terri Horman is holding back, and Desiree Young said where Kyron is. Kaine Horman also reinforced that. He said he thinks he`s holding the -- that Terri Horman knows the location of Kyron.
CASAREZ: To defense attorney Peter Odom, this is a recurring theme from the family. It is not something that they are just -- an excited utterance that`s coming out of their mouth here.
Have you ever seen someone, a defendant, that has hid someone for two months or more, a family relation?
PETER ODOM, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Jean, that would be remarkable. First of all, it would require an accomplice. To have an accomplice involved in a scheme like you`re suggesting might be happening here would be not unprecedented but very rare.
I just don`t think that that`s what`s happening here. I think the family is engaging in wishful thinking.
CASAREZ: And, you know, though? We have been hearing from the beginning that they believe someone else is involved. Right? We`ve been hearing that for a long, long time.
In fact, let me go back to Elie Jostad. Let`s talk about Dede Spicher right now. Obviously a very close friend. And the reason she came to our attention is that law enforcement did a search of her home as they did of several other friends.
I know that your producer spoke with Dede Spicher`s lawyer today. What did he -- she have to say?
JOSTAD: Well, right. The important thing is that the parents put out a statement saying that they believe Dede Spicher -- and this is when we first heard her name, was when Kaine Horman and Desiree Young put out a statement, and they said that Dede Spicher was, number one, not cooperating with investigators and, number two, encouraging others who might have information not to cooperate.
Her attorney, however, says that she is cooperating, that she spent over three hours with investigators, answering their questions. He said her e-mails are going to be handed over to police -- e-mails she got from Terri Horman.
However, he wouldn`t talk about where she was the day that Kyron went missing and he also wouldn`t talk about any content that might be in those e-mails.
CASAREZ: Did she take a polygraph, Ellie?
JOSTAD: He wouldn`t confirm it. However, "People" magazine is reporting that two friends of Dede Spicher say that she declined to take a polygraph.
CASAREZ: To Eleanor Odom, sex crimes prosecutor, why would you be subpoenaed for the grand jury, you go there, you walk in and they don`t question you?
ELEANOR ODOM, PROSECUTOR: Well, it could be that they questioned you or questioned her and she took the Fifth. In other words, she refused to testify. So that`s sort of the immediate answer that leads to mind which would then suggest that she`s got something to hide.
So I find it very interesting that there were no questions and she was in and out of there pretty quickly.
CASAREZ: It`s interesting, in the state of Oregon you can be compelled to testify before the grand jury but they must give you immunity at that point. And her attorney has said that they didn`t question her, but they went there.
So there is a little more mystery around there. There`s some deal in the works that is formulating or not. I guess time will tell.
Let`s go to Marie in Virginia. Hi, Marie.
MARIE, CALLER FROM VIRGINIA: Hi. Thank you for taking my call. I have --
CASAREZ: You`re welcome.
MARIE: I have a question. I don`t understand why -- what the police saw in the security cameras at the school. And then I don`t understand why the -- the real mom is saying that she is stashing when we -- I`ve been watching your show every night and there`s never been evidence of anything of anyone stashing or using -- really saying that word, "stashing." It`s just really disturbing to me.
CASAREZ: It is a very unusual word, you`re right.
C.W. Jensen, retired Portland police captain, you know the local law enforcement has asked continually for pictures, video, camera, anything from the elementary school, from June 4th, because they were having a big science fair that day and all the parents were there. Why are they so concerned about that videotape?
CW JENSEN, RETIRED PORTLAND POLICE CAPTAIN: Well, I think it`s just one more component to the investigation. I mean, every investigation you talk to people and you gather evidence. And video evidence would be very significant.
I think they`ve also branched out outside of the school area to roads around the school, roads around Horman`s home, to try to see if they can see Terri Horman in those locations.
CASAREZ: And, Marie, the fact is that`s the last place the little boy was seen alive. They want to see who he walks out with, where he goes, anything that can help give him clues. And they`ve done more searches at the school also. So this very basic point is really important to them.
To Lillian Glass, psychologist, body language expert, let`s go to her (INAUDIBLE), stashing. Our caller is very disturbed by that terminology.
LILLIAN GLASS, PSYCHOLOGIST, BODY LANGUAGE EXPERT, AUTHOR OF "TOXIC PEOPLE": Yes. That is -- that is an very interesting word, and it did just come up so that must mean that maybe she has heard something from law enforcement. Maybe they told her something that she`s not revealing the whole information. But maybe that`s giving her hope. On the other hand, it might just be wishful thinking.
CASAREZ: Yes. Yes. We don`t know. To Pamela in Kentucky, hi, Pamela.
PAMELA, CALLER FROM KENTUCKY: Hi, Jean. You`re doing a great job.
CASAREZ: Thank you.
PAMELA: Thank you for taking my question.
CASAREZ: You`re welcome.
PAMELA: My question is if stepmom Terri is stashing, as they say, Kyron, why would she hire such a high-profile lawyer?
CASAREZ: Yes. To Randy Kessler, why would she hire a lawyer if she`s stashing but yet if she`s stashing maybe she thinks and knows she needs to hire a lawyer? Your thoughts.
RANDY KESSLER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, I think, you know, you get what you pay for, and she`s going to go out and get the best, and she thinks that, you know, if he`s the most expensive, he must be the best and a lot of people think that way.
And he probably is pretty darn good if he can command a $350,000 retainer. He better be good and he`s got something to live up to. He can also afford to put all those cases aside and work on just her case if he`s got that kind of money.
CASAREZ: And what we just heard, a legal document we got before the show minutes before that she`s not paying $350,000 but less than that, but it`s borrowed money or someone has given her the money.
To Eleanor Odom, what would motivate somebody to stash someone? Because it is such a crime. It is a class a felony. You can serve life in prison for doing something like this.
E. ODOM: Exactly. So I`m thinking there`s mental issues. Certainly something`s wrong with the person if they`re doing that. Or else they`re going to ask for some type of ransom or use the child or person in exchange for something that they want.
But that is very odd. We don`t see cases like this. Usually, sadly, the children end up dead, although we have seen cases where children turn up years, months later. Elizabeth Smart leaps to mind. So that does happen but that`s rare.
CASAREZ: Eleanor, you`re so right. Elizabeth Smart jumps to mind, Shawn Hornbeck steps to mind, Ben Ownby and of course Jaycee Dugard. Jaycee Dugard. But those are not family members that abducted them. It was someone else.
Before we go to break, Donna in Nebraska. Hi, Donna.
DONNA, CALLER FROM NEBRASKA: Hi.
CASAREZ: Welcome. Your question.
DONNA: OK. I`m listening to the mother talk about the e-mails that she got from the stepmother and that she didn`t think at the time anything about it, but now that she`s looking back, you know, she`s thinking, well, these weren`t normal.
And something had to have been going on. And I think sometimes -- this is just a comment of my own, but I think that sometimes that when we stop and look back into a conversation, we can see things that we didn`t see at the time that it was focused.
And I`m really wondering why we can`t have the information of what the e-mails were from the mother -- or from the stepmother to the mother, because, you know, just -- information. Right?
CASAREZ: You know, Donna, I think these e-mails could be important. I think the fact that they were far different in nature from former ones, we`re going to talk about that after the break.
But first Nancy Grace`s brand-new book "Death on the D-List," it`s going to be out in August, August 10th, actually. To preorder your copy, go to CNN.com/Nancygrace. Click on Nancy`s new book, but hurry, hurry, hurry, because they run out of these things.
Order your copy, "Death on the D-List." It`s going to be another "New York Times" bestseller.
And the proceeds, they go to Wesley Glenn, and that`s to get a loving home for the mentally handicap who need one.
Congratulations, Nancy.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Amber alert.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have a missing 16-year-old female.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: 16-year-old Alyssa Rehfield.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A missing person.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Texas police issuing an Amber alert.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Last seen in the home sleeping at 11:30 p.m. when she went to bed.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Vanishing in the middle of the night.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Cops say she is likely with a man twice her age.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: David Karan.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: 36-year-old David Karan.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: White male, 36 years of age.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Alyssa, 5`7", 180 pounds, blond hair, brown eyes and braces.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They possibly met through a gaming site.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: And on a social gaming site.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Karan, we can`t find that he has any type of criminal history.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: What do you know about Mr. Karan?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He listed the address of the Studio 6 Motel as his residence.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Police concerned because Alyssa left her cell phone behind.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Her cell phone was left at her home.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
CASAREZ: I`m Jean Casarez of "In Session" in for Nancy Grace tonight. A 16-year-old girl with braces goes to bed in the home with her mother and then she`s gone. Absolutely gone. An Amber alert has been called out on this.
Let us go to Joe Gomez, reporter of KTRH Newsradio in Houston, Texas. What`s the latest?
JOE GOMEZ, REPORTER, KTRH NEWSRADIO: Jean, as far as we know, she`s somewhere out on the western side of Texas, possibly into New Mexico right now. Police have expanded the Amber alert out into New Mexico. She was last seen or reportedly seen in a car yesterday in Bernie, Texas which is near San Antonio.
Of course that`s far west of Houston. And police believe right now that she`s heading even farther west, possibly out to California or Oregon, where her abductor apparently has roots of some kind.
CASAREZ: Now, where is this guy from? Where was he living in Houston?
GOMEZ: This -- his name is David Karen. He`s about 36 years old. He was staying at some sort of extended stay hotel. We know he was at least here for about a month or so. He came from Oregon, we know that, because his car is from Oregon. He has Oregon license plates.
And police think he was recently in Missouri, as well. Well, so this guy is sort of a drifter, doesn`t really have, you know, any permanent ties to any place, which is -- which is a bit mysterious.
So he`s living in Texas, living off some extended stay hotel off the highway. Sort of chatting with young Alyssa, and then before you know it, she`s missing. Took off with her. Of course her family is concerned. Everybody -- nobody knows --
CASAREZ: And how was he chatting with little, young Alyssa?
GOMEZ: He was chatting with her apparently over some Internet gaming site. I mean, these two had never even met before and they`re chatting on an Internet gaming site at least for about, you know, a month.
She`s calling him on her cell phone at his motel room and then he apparently scoops her up in the middle of the night and vanishes.
CASAREZ: OK. This sounds not good. Not good at all.
To Captain James Burger, we`re so happy tonight from Fort Bend County Sheriff`s Department in Richmond, Texas.
Thank you. Thank you for joining us. All right. Let`s -- where are you now in the investigation? If he has a car with Oregon plates, then that`s a good thing because I would think that would be very noticeable in Texas.
CAPT. JAMES BURGER, FORT BEND COUNTY SHERIFF`S OFFICE: Yes. We`re hoping that someone will recognize the vehicle either in Texas or New Mexico or anywhere along the I-10 corridor and notify us or notify the local law enforcement so we can get this guy arrested.
CASAREZ: Now, we understand --
BURGER: And we do have some --
CASAREZ: Yes. Go ahead.
BURGER: I was going to say we do have some new development. Within the last couple of hours we have issued a warrant for this young man, David Karan, for enticing a child which is a third-degree felony here in the state of Texas.
CASAREZ: A warrant for enticing a child so that means that you have probable cause and you`ve gone before a judge.
I understand that there was a sighting in Bernie, Texas, you believe?
BURGER: That`s correct. Yesterday morning there was a sighting in Bernie, Texas, and then a short time later there was a sighting further west in Kerrville, Texas. And that`s the last sighting we have of these individuals and that was about 10:00 yesterday morning.
CASAREZ: All right. Well, I used to live in Bernie, Texas so I`m very familiar with this area. And I know Bernie, Texas, it`s out of San Antonio to the north, it`s really bordering interstate 10.
I mean, if you want to jump off Interstate 10, you`re right there in Bernie. And Interstate 10, straight shot to El Paso in New Mexico. But here`s my question to you. You can also go up Texas through Lubbock and Amarillo, taking the side roads to get into New Mexico. So how can you be assured that they`re travelling down that desolate I-10?
BURGER: Well, we`re not absolutely certain that they`re taking that route. We just know that he has relatives back in the California-Oregon area, and that`s just an assumption. He could go in in any direction, so we want people in northern and western states to pay attention and look for this vehicle.
CASAREZ: All right. Want to show everybody. This is a YouTube video. You`re looking at David Rehfield`s YouTube webpage. This is him. This is the man that we just heard a warrant has been issued for enticing a child, a warrant for his arrest.
And that`s his YouTube video. Wasn`t made too long ago, either.
Want to go to Lauren in Texas. Lauren, it`s your state.
LAUREN, CALLER FROM TEXAS: Hello.
CASAREZ: Hi.
LAUREN: How are you?
CASAREZ: I`m fine. What part of Texas?
LAUREN: Like Jackson.
CASAREZ: Well, great. What is your question?
LAUREN: My question is, is -- have you all heard from -- have you all thought of looking on Facebook for him yet?
CASAREZ: Yes. They -- to captain -- to C.W. Jensen, retired Portland police captain, obviously with an Amber alert that`s been out on this child now and with a warrant, this is priority.
JENSEN: Oh, absolutely. You can bet that law enforcement agencies truly around the country but especially in the areas where the sheriff`s department thinks he might go, have received teletypes, e-mails, and so every officer at roll call, when they start their shift, is probably getting the information on this vehicle and the suspect.
CASAREZ: To Captain James Burger, Fort Bend County Sheriff`s Department out of Houston, I`m sure you have law enforcement on alert all over the state of Texas. Can you tell our viewers a little description about Alyssa Rehfied? I know she`s 16 years old, and I know she wears braces.
BURGER: She`s 16 years old. She wears braces. She`s got blond hair, fair complexion. She`s 5`7". She`s about 180 pounds. And that`s the only description that we have of her.
I know we have the photos out on the Amber alerts. I just ask anyone to take a look at those photos. Anyone that sees anyone that looks like her, please call.
CASAREZ: Can you describe the vehicle?
BURGER: The vehicle is a 1995 Ford Aspire, silver in color, and it has Oregon license plate, 884-AGZ.
CASAREZ: Do you believe this young girl is in danger?
BURGER: Yes, I do. I believe she`s in great danger because of the activities with this individual in the past. I do feel she`s in danger.
CASAREZ: All right. We will do our part to try to bring Alyssa back home to Houston, Texas.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BURGER: We have a missing 16-year-old female who`s -- we believe is the company of a 36-year-old without the permission or consent of the mom and dad in this case.
Any time a young juvenile female is in the custody of an adult male, that brings alarms to us and we act on it.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BURGER: Alyssa Rehfield, 16 years of age --
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Disappeared from her own home late Monday night.
BURGER: We believe is in the company of a 36-year-old.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Law enforcement needs your help.
BURGER: Without the permission or consent of the mom and dad.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Police looking for Alyssa and 36-year-old David Karan.
BURGER: David Karan.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Possibly headed for New Mexico.
BURGER: Driving.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Silver 1995 Ford Aspire.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
CASAREZ: I`m Jean Casarez of "In Session" in for Nancy Grace tonight. And we have just learned minutes ago that a warrant has been issued for the arrest of David Karan, 36-year-old, 20 years older than 16-year-old Alyssa, for enticing a child.
I want to go back to Joe Gomez, reporter, KTRH Newsradio. One of the things that is very concerning in this case, when she left home or was taken from home -- we don`t know all the facts -- she didn`t take her cell phone.
GOMEZ: That`s right. It`s very strange that she wouldn`t take her cell phone. Maybe the -- maybe this David fellow, you know, of course reassured her that they`d be -- they`d be fine together, or it could also, you know, adds fuel to the theory that perhaps maybe she didn`t go of her own accord.
You know maybe she went outside to meet this guy, outside in front of her house, you know, and he took her away and put her in the car and drove off with her. I mean that is very strange that she didn`t take her cell phone.
CASAREZ: Joe, did she take anything? Is anything gone from the house that we know of?
GOMEZ: As far as we know, all she took were the clothes on her back.
CASAREZ: Captain James Burger, did she take anything when she left that you know of?
BURGER: No, Joe`s correct. The only thing that we`re aware of is that she took the clothes on her back and no other clothes with her. And indeed, she did leave her cell phone there.
CASAREZ: Alyssa Rehfield, 16 years old.
Tonight let us stop to remember Army Sergeant 1st Class David Salie, 34 years old of Columbus, Georgia. He was killed in Iraq. He also had previous combat tours in Panama during the Persian Gulf war and even Haiti. He was awarded several medals including the Purple Heart and the Bronze Star.
He loved to fish. He loved to fish at his grandfather`s lake house and hunting anywhere he could. He leaves behind his mother, Patricia, his stepfather, Walter, his sister, Kimberly, brother, Brian, his wife, Fiona, and four children, China, Ruffa, Hunter and Haley.
David Salie, an American hero.
Thank you so much to all of our guests. Our biggest thank you is to you for being with us tonight, inviting us into your homes.
Don`t forget Nancy Grace`s new book, "Death on the D-List." It`s going to be out on August 10th. You can preorder your copy, go straight to CNN.com/Nancygrace. Click on Nancy`s new book. Proceeds go to Wesley Glenn to give a loving home to mentally handicap.
We will see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp. Until then, goodnight, everybody.
END
