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Nancy Grace
California Woman Dies After Unlicensed Cosmetic Procedure
Aired July 29, 2010 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JEAN CASAREZ, GUEST HOST: We begin tonight with breaking news. A young mother of two goes in for a routine cosmetic surgery procedure. One day later, she`s dead! The alleged procedure didn`t take place in a fancy operating room or cosmetic center. And forget the doctor`s office. Police say the two women performing the procedure weren`t even doctors! Now they`re on the run. And other patients say they developed infections and parts of their body even became hardened. Tonight, two unlicensed sisters on the lam, and police need your help in tracking them down.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She didn`t deserve to die like this! And I`m here to ask for the public to help me and my family to bring these people to justice!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Twenty-two-year-old Mayra Contreras of Pacoima died Friday, police say her death a result from receiving a silicone injection in the buttocks from the illegal cosmetic surgery business of these two sisters.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The sisters have fled after one of their patients, a young mom of two, died just a day after allegedly receiving an injection inside the sisters` home.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police say last Friday, Guadalupe Viveros injected a woman`s buttocks with a substance to enhance that woman`s appearance.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Shortly after receiving the injection, she began to feel ill. And her condition deteriorated from there until she was taken to the hospital. And then the next day about 8:30 in the evening, she was pronounced dead.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Viveros saw Contreras develop life-threatening reactions to the substance injected. They say the Viveros sisters dropped Contreras at her dad`s house and they took off.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CASAREZ: And also tonight, live to Arizona. A little 2-year-old boy camping with his custodial mother, last seen at midnight in his sleeping bag. Not even two hours later, he`s gone, little Syler wearing only wearing a diaper. Tonight, Syler`s custodial mother fears he was taken and claims while the family was camping, a man kept staring at them from a distance. What happened?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Searchers are still looking for little Syler.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... helicopters, ground crews, dogs and divers...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... a little boy, a 2-year-old...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... camping with his soon-to-be adoptive mom...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... last seen wearing only a diaper...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... at midnight in his sleeping bag...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... little Syler Newton...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hours later, he`s gone.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... remains missing...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Perhaps he was snatched by somebody.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Kids do wander off.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It could very well have been that the kid was kidnapped.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There could be possibly foul play.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The sheriff`s office have located the biological mother and have interviewed her.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The longer it takes to find this child...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Doing horrible! My baby`s gone!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... the more interest we have in the relationship between Syler and this custodial mom.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Investigators administered a polygraph test to his custodial mother.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is highly suspicious.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... sleeping in his tent one moment...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You`re going to have to take that tent...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... gone the next...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... and search it inside and out for (INAUDIBLE) evidence.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... a campground about 15 miles south of Flagstaff, Arizona...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s hot and it`s humid here.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... temperatures reaching heights of 97...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s a little, tiny boy...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Time is of the essence.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CASAREZ: And also tonight, live to rural Oregon and the mystery surrounding the disappearance of little Kyron Horman. Stepmother Terri Horman walks 7-year-old Kyron down the hall of his elementary school, and he`s never seen again! Tonight, Kyron`s father says his wife is hiding Kyron. We`ve got that interview.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We`re all coming to get you!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The mystery around the disappearance of 7-year-old Kyron Horman getting even deeper.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Terri Horman will not contest her divorce from Kaine Horman.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can you tell the world something? Can you please tell the world something?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Court documents show they want a fast divorce.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m kind of at that point where I`m so angry, I don`t even have words.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This investigation has developed into the largest search effort in Oregon`s history.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He`s still out there. We just need to find him.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... 500 searchers involving 18 different counties...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you know if Terri is hiding something?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Biological mom claims that stepmom Terri Horman has him stashed somewhere.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Kyron is stashed somewhere.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Kaine Horman said he thinks Terri Horman knows the location of Kyron.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... manipulative and cunning...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let her stay out there. Don`t arrest her. And maybe she`ll step in it.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I just really want her to do the right thing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CASAREZ: Good evening. I`m Jean Casarez of the legal network "In session" on the truTV network, in for Nancy Grace tonight. Thank you so much for joining us tonight.
Breaking news. A young mother of two goes in for a routine cosmetic surgery procedure. One day later, she`s dead. The alleged procedure didn`t take place in a fancy operating room, a cosmetic center. Forget the doctor`s office. Police say the two women performing the procedure -- they weren`t even doctors. Now they`re on the run.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have a young woman that went to a residential home and received injections for cosmetic reasons. And the next day, she was pronounced dead.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Twenty-two-year-old Mayra Contreras died at a local hospital in Los Angeles July 24th just one day after the Viveros sisters, 53-year-old Guadalupe and 50-year-old Alejandra, allegedly injected Mayra with silicone inside their home.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The two women were already facing charges for practicing without a license when they injected Mayra last week. Police say patients told them the silicone they used turned to hard plastic once inside the body.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Viveros sisters were already facing charges of practicing medicine without a license, but they skipped their arraignment Monday.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mayra (INAUDIBLE) because she was a wonderful person, you know, a good mother, a good wife.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CASAREZ: Twenty-two years old and two young children. Let`s go straight out to Colin Stewart. He`s a reporter for the "Orange County Register" in southern California, also a writer for "The Orange County Register`s" In Your Face blog. What is happening out there?
COLIN STEWART, "ORANGE COUNTY REGISTER" (via telephone): Well, police are just trying to get tips on where these women may be. The suspicion is that they have fled to Mexico.
CASAREZ: Well, what happened?
STEWART: The police started getting complaints from patients of these women, who were operating out of their house and injecting silicone and perhaps other materials. And the police -- the patients were saying that this silicone was producing infections, which means that it wasn`t medical grade silicone and that whatever was being injected (INAUDIBLE) it was just solidifying.
CASAREZ: So what happened to Mayra, Mayra Contreras? She`s dead. What happened?
STEWART: She apparently had a problem in her lungs, which is something that frequently happens with injections of large amounts of silicone into the buttocks because there`s a lot of blood supply there in the buttocks. It`s easy for an injector to hit a vein, and the silicone goes to the bloodstream and ends up in the lungs. It creates infections. It created clots and can cause (INAUDIBLE)
CASAREZ: So you`re saying that Mayra Contreras allegedly got her silicone in her rear end by these two sisters in their home. Is that what you`re saying?
STEWART: That`s right. Except that it`s more likely to be Guadalupe Viveros who was the injector. She says she was a doctor in Mexico, though, you know, that may or may not be true. And her sister, her partner, Alejandra Viveros, was more the business partner.
CASAREZ: OK. Right. All right, to Marlaina Schiavo, NANCY GRACE producer. On June 21st of this year, I understand these sisters were arrested. What happened?
MARLAINA SCHIAVO, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: They were arrested on charges of practicing without a license in their home, Jean. And then they were released on $20,000 bail. Now, they were supposed to be arraigned this week and they never showed up. And that`s when police realized that they are probably on the run. And since they have connections in Mexico, they are thinking that they might have headed down south.
CASAREZ: All right, let`s go to the lawyers, Paul Batista, defense attorney and author of "Death`s Witness" out of New York, and Peter Schaeffer, defense attorney out of New York.
To Paul Batista. OK, let`s -- let`s look at the facts for a minute. These two women, sisters, were arrested for practicing medicine without a license. They made bail. And what did they do, Paul Batista, allegedly?
PAUL BATISTA, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, they allegedly continued doing exactly what they were arrested for, and apparently injected Ms. Contreras with faulty silicone. You know, I do want to say, Jean, that before we put these ladies on death row, we don`t even have an autopsy report that conclusively establishes that it was the silicone caused her death.
CASAREZ: That is correct. But I`ll tell you what we do have, Peter Schaeffer. We have consciousness of guilt because, according to the reports -- and remember, law enforcement, they are trying to find these women because they believe and they have said that they are suspects in the death of this woman. Here`s what happened. After she got her silicone, according to the report, she had respiratory distress, and the sisters saw it. But the sisters allowed her to go home. That takes this up a notch, doesn`t it? And after that, according to law enforcement, they fled.
PETER SCHAEFFER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, if true. As you said, flight or leaving, is -- shows consciousness of guilt. But we don`t know if that`s what happened here. But it certainly doesn`t look good. It does not help their case. If they didn`t do something wrong, it`s better to stick around than to leave.
CASAREZ: Let`s go out to Dr. Susan Evans. We`re so happy to have her with us tonight. She is from Los Angeles, actually Beverly Hills. She is the chief of dermatology for Skincare Physicians of Beverly Hills. First of all, do people get silicone in their rear end? Is that a normal cosmetic procedure done these days?
DR. SUSAN EVANS, SKINCARE PHYSICIANS OF BEVERLY HILLS: This is such a sad story, and my deepest condolences to the family. No, we don`t inject silicone for buttock augmentation. It is not one of the FDA-approved substances to be injected.
CASAREZ: What about the respiratory distress? Could that be -- because there was a question from the defense attorneys about the cause of death. Is respiratory distress something that one could have following a silicone injection like this?
EVANS: Well, I believe it is unclear exactly what was the cause of death right now. But clearly, respiratory distress is one of the things that is concerning about injecting a liquid form of silicone, and this is why the FDA has not approved it as an injectable.
CASAREZ: To Colin Stewart out in Los Angeles -- actually, reporter for "The Orange County Register." Have they released a cause of death of this woman?
STEWART: No, they have not. That has not been released. It`s only been said that it`s apparently from the respiratory problem.
CASAREZ: How serious is law enforcement taking this case?
STEWART: Oh, well, very seriously. I mean, they`re trying to get people to tell them where these women are, if they know.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Guadalupe is allegedly a doctor, possibly, in Mexico. And Alejandra is her sister that works with her in this -- at the business. Neither sister is licensed to perform medical procedures in the United States. And we believe they are on the run, or possibly even out of the country by now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police are searching for two California sisters accused of operating an illegal cosmetic clinic inside their home.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Twenty-two-year-old Mayra Contreras was mom to their two toddlers. She died Saturday. LA police are searching for these two women, Guadalupe Viveros and her sister, Alejandra. They believe they could be in Mexico.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The sisters, Guadalupe Viveros, 53, and Alejandra Viveros, 50, were taken into custody June 21st for practicing medicine without a license after several of their patients who felt sick after the injections complained to police.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The question remains as to how the sisters continued to run this clinic, considering they were arrested and charged a month earlier with unauthorized medical practice.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Some of Viveros`s patients told police the cosmetic (INAUDIBLE) Viveros turned to hard plastic and caused infections.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Guadalupe Viveros claimed to be a doctor in Mexico. She is not licensed to practice in the U.S.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: One neighbor told us Alejandra tried to get her to try the $1,000 butt-firming procedure.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But I don`t need it, or not from her.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CASAREZ: I`m Jean Casarez of "In Session," sitting in for Nancy Grace tonight. I want to show everybody the home that these sisters lived in and did their medical procedures, allegedly, in, really a beautiful subdivision.
To Colin Stewart, columnist for "The Orange County Register." That`s a gorgeous home. And California real estate prices -- that takes a lot of money. Do we know at all how much they charged for these procedures?
STEWART: The $1,000 figure is (INAUDIBLE) only thing I have heard (INAUDIBLE)
CASAREZ: A thousand dollars?
STEWART: Yes. But it`s a lucrative -- you know, it`s a lucrative field...
CASAREZ: Wow.
STEWART: ... both (INAUDIBLE) you know, above -- above...
CASAREZ: That`s a lot of money.
STEWART: ... reproach and below reproach.
CASAREZ: I want to ask you, what led authorities to arrest them for practicing medicine without a license? Who came forward from where?
STEWART: It was the patients, you know, the earlier patients, who were just having horrible problems, not at that point fatal problems. But you know, they wanted a larger rear end, and they got a big chunk of plastic inside their...
CASAREZ: Yes. And what we...
STEWART: ... inside their rear end.
CASAREZ: ... understand is that there were other people that had hardened plastic inside their body, and they had infections from that, and they went to authorities. And the Los Angeles County authorities are asking any victims of these two sisters, allegedly, to come forward. They have got a number they want you to call because they are trying to see if anyone else has been affected in all of this.
Let`s go to the callers. Kimberly in Arizona. Hi, Kimberly.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi. How are you guys doing?
CASAREZ: I`m fine. What part of Arizona are you in?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Phoenix.
CASAREZ: Phoenix. Love Arizona! Your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. Aside from them doing this procedure in the residence, it should have been a red flag, wasn`t there any licensing or certificate stating that they`ve even allowed to even practice at all showing anywhere in that residence?
CASAREZ: It`s a good question. To Dr. Susan Evans, chief of dermatology in Beverly Hills, California, with Skincare Physicians. What about that? You`ve got a lot -- a lot of licensing procedures that you have to do. But if you`re doing it out of your home, nobody probably ever asked a question, right?
EVANS: Well, part of having a medical license, you understand the appropriate places to do procedures. And you`re taking these precautions because you want the patient to be safe. You want to make sure that the needles are clean, that you`re not transmitting HIV between customers. And also, you`re not approved to do these in your own home. It should be at a medical facility. So the probability of her having a license to do this is very unlikely.
CASAREZ: Right. So sort of like doing propofol in a home also, right, sort of the same basic scenario there, except one was licensed, one was not.
But very, very quickly, to Marc Harrold, former police officer of the city of the Atlanta. If these women are in Mexico, how difficult will it be to find them?
MARC HARROLD, FMR. ATLANTA POLICE OFFICER: Well, it can depend on what part of Mexico they`re in and what kind of law enforcement facilities they have there or resources they have there. You know, it`s really going to come down to -- a lot of it also comes down to that they have -- what have they been charged with? What -- you know, is it a warrant that Interpol is trying to enforce, or are they just looking for them as witnesses before they`ve been charged, before there`s a lot of information? So it`s all going to depend on what do they find out from here.
CASAREZ: All right. To tonight`s "Case Alert." Illinois police searching for 48-year-old Bonnie Woodward, last seen in the parking lot at her job, talking to a man on June 25th. Police are looking for a white male about 40 years old with brown hair, possibly graying around the temple. He was driving what is believed to be a silver or light gray Chevy Malibu. Woodward is 5 feet, 7 inches tall, weighs 240 pounds. She has blond hair and green eyes. She was wearing yellow scrub pants and a yellow-and-white scrub top. If you have any information, please call the Alton Police Department at 618-463-3505, extension 250.
Nancy Grace`s brand-new book "Death on the D-List" is going to be out on August 10th. To preorder your copy, go to CNN.com/nancygrace, click on Nancy`s new book. Hurry and order your copy, "Death on the D-List." It should be another "New York Times" best-seller. Proceeds go to Wesley Glenn to give a loving home to the mentally handicapped who need one. Congratulations, Nancy.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Two sisters accused of running an illegal cosmetic clinic are on the run after one of their patients died just a day after receiving an injection at their home.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Authorities are searching for the sisters for failure to show up to court for practicing medicine without a license and questioning on Contreras`s death. They also have this message for the public.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you are receiving an injection at a home in a residential area, that should be the first warning sign that you shouldn`t be there.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CASAREZ: Her name was Mayra Contreras, 22 years old. And she spent, what we`re hearing tonight, upwards of $1,000 to better herself. She had two young children. Twenty-four hours later, gone, dead.
I`m Jean Casarez, sitting in for Nancy Grace tonight. Out to Christie in Georgia. Hi, Christie.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Jean. How are you?
CASAREZ: Hi. Just fine. Thanks for calling.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My question is, are the two sisters here legally? Are they U.S. citizens? And if they`re not here legally, why were they given bond?
CASAREZ: Oh, good question. We do know that Guadalupe professed to be a doctor in Mexico and Alejandra was her assistant. But let`s go out to Colin Stewart with "The Orange County Register" in Los Angeles. Do we know anything about this, their status, American citizen...
STEWART: Unfortunately, we do not know anything about their status. Police haven`t released anything about -- about that.
CASAREZ: What was -- what was their bond?
STEWART: Twenty thousand.
CASAREZ: Twenty thousand dollars.
STEWART: Yes.
CASAREZ: And they made that bond shortly before they allegedly injected Mayra with the silicone, and then she`s gone.
Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst, what motivates somebody to practice medicine in their home? Is it solely greed for the almighty dollar?
BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST: Well, Jean, there are, unfortunately, many of these clinics just south of the border, and I know because I hear this in my Beverly Hills practice all the time. Patients drive down over the border to get procedures that are not approved of here. And a very common one is getting the buttocks injected for lipodystrophy, which is wasting of the body as a side effect to the medications that are given to treat HIV patients. And so it sounds like they`ve crossed over and started using these procedures, buttock enhancement, just as a cosmetic procedure.
And these women preyed on young women, who didn`t have much money but wanted cosmetic procedures, by putting advertisements on window shields in supermarket parking lots.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are looking to question the sisters about the death. And we are requesting the public`s help or anyone in the public that has received injections from these two sisters to come forward.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Searchers are still looking for little Sylar.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Sylar Newton has not yet been found.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Baby boy is missing.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Two-year-old Sylar Newton --
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Camping with his custodial mother.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Christine Priem and her family.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Soon to be adoptive mom.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Not Sylar`s mom. Instead, a friend of his biological mother.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The last time anyone saw the toddler was just after midnight Sunday morning.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The FBI has been on seen.
MARC KLAAS, PRESIDENT AND FOUNDER, KLAASKIDS FOUNDATION: They can do background checks. They can do interrogations. They can do forensics.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Take any type of lie detector test?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. That is a process that we would normally do in a situation like this.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We`re all really, really scared.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Search and rescue teams --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The search is under way.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Scouring the area --
KLAAS: It is a big country. It`s a little tiny boy.
PAUL PENZONE, DIRECT OF PREVENTION PROGRAMS, CHILDHELP.ORG, FMR. SERGEANT, PHOENIX PD: Temperatures are extremely high.
DR. TITUS DUNCAN, M.D., GENERAL SURGERY, ATLANTA MEDICAL CENTER: Children become dehydrated.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He could have gotten heatstroke.
DUNCAN: Around about 48 hours to 72 hours.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He could have froze last night. The worst. We are preparing for the worst right now.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
JEAN CASAREZ, GUEST HOST: I`m Jean Casarez of "In Session" sitting in for Nancy Grace tonight.
Sylar Newton, 2 years old, just in a diaper. And he`s camping with his mother who`s going to adopt him, and her mother and their children. And he is gone. He`s gone. From midnight to 1:45 a.m., he`s gone out of the tent.
It doesn`t make any sense.
To Christina Estes, who`s a reporter from Newstalk Radio 550 in Phoenix. What`s the latest in this investigation?
CHRISTINA ESTES, REPORTER, NEWSTALK 550 KFYI: Well, the very latest is that they`ve expanded the search. Early Sunday morning when deputies first got the call, they really focused on a one-mile area around that camp site but they have since expanded that to five miles in some area.
They`ve also used sonar in some duck ponds. They`ve dropped a camera down a well. They are searching by air, by horseback, using ATVs and bloodhounds. But we`re talking now almost five days later still no sign of Sylar.
CASAREZ: Talk to us about the family, as they were. The unit, the tents they had. I think there were two tents. Who was in what tent?
ESTES: Yes, that`s pretty interesting because we were first told that Sylar -- this was information that police received from the woman Christina Priem who identified herself as the custodial mother. Originally we`re told that she said that Sylar was in a tent with an older sibling, one of her children.
And then a day or two later, police told us well, Sylar in fact was in a tent with Christina Priem, the woman who identified herself as the custodial mother, as well as her mother and then Christina Priem`s 12-year- old daughter.
CASAREZ: Have they found any sign of the little boy, anything at all?
ESTES: Not at all. Within the first 24 hours they thought the bloodhounds might have picked up a scent but that went nowhere.
CASAREZ: Are we sure that he was even in the tent?
ESTES: Well, he was in the tent according to his custodial mother, Christina Priem. And that is another avenue of the investigation. Well, it`s sort of a two-pronged approach. They`re focusing on the physical search in that camp area but they are also digging into the relationship between Christina Priem, who said she was in the process of adopting Sylar, as well as Sylar`s biological mom.
Because they haven`t been able to find absolutely no record, no paper trail whatsoever that there was any sort of adoption in the works.
CASAREZ: Well, we`ve got a very special guest tonight and maybe she can answer some of these unanswered questions. It is the biological grandmother of this little boy Sylar Newton.
Thank you, Yvonne Newton, for joining us tonight so much. We can`t imagine what you`re going through because you just have to stand by and watch.
YVONNE NEWTON, BIOLOGICAL GRANDMOTHER OF SYLAR NEWTON: Yes. It`s real hard.
CASAREZ: I`m sure it is hard. First of all, we want to know, your daughter and the lady that -- Christina, that was going to adopt her. First of all, what happened? Why did your daughter decide to give the little baby up?
NEWTON: Well, she`s having a lot of personal issues in her life. She is bipolar. She calls herself self-destructive. And she was having a hard time doing this on her own. She wanted help and Tina was there to help her out and that`s where it started.
CASAREZ: And that`s a very brave move on her part to want a better life for this baby. How did she know Tina because your daughter lives in Indiana, right?
NEWTON: She actually lived here in Flagstaff since she was 5 years old.
CASAREZ: Were they close friends?
NEWTON: For a number of years that I have known and they may have been friends longer than that.
CASAREZ: So she trusted this lady?
NEWTON: Yes.
CASAREZ: What do you think happened? What do you think happened?
NEWTON: What I think happened, there are several possibilities. But the major one that I can think of since they can`t pick up any scent of him anywhere other than the camp site is that somebody picked him up and took off with him.
CASAREZ: So if you have a tent with so many people in that tent, wouldn`t somebody have heard something? Wouldn`t the baby have cried if somebody came up and got it?
NEWTON: That`s what I would think. It is either -- and I don`t want to point fingers or do any accusations or anything, but it`s either somebody he knows or somebody he has met at least once or twice.
CASAREZ: What are authorities telling you?
NEWTON: They are telling us nothing at this time.
CASAREZ: The last time he was seen, according to Christina, was around midnight in the tent?
NEWTON: That`s the story I`ve heard.
CASAREZ: And then what time was he found missing?
NEWTON: He was reported missing almost 2:00 a.m. from the story that I read.
CASAREZ: What jolted her to suddenly realize he was missing?
NEWTON: I don`t know.
CASAREZ: What has she said to your daughter? Your daughter is the biological mother. What is she saying?
NEWTON: My daughter`s really not saying a whole lot. They probably advised her not to talk about it. But I really don`t know the whole story on that part of it myself.
CASAREZ: You`re confused, aren`t you? You don`t know --
NEWTON: Yes, I am. I really don`t know.
CASAREZ: But you have a bad gut feeling. I can tell you have a bad gut feeling.
NEWTON: Yes.
CASAREZ: I want to talk to Paul Laska. He`s an expert searcher in this area, forensic consulting.
Here is what I want to ask you. This reminds me of the Haleigh Cummings case. I mean you thought the Haleigh Cummings bedroom was small. This was a tent. And this was filled with the woman Christina that was going to adopt this baby, her mother, another child and then the 2-year- old.
How could someone not have known that he was taken out of the tent?
PAUL. R. LASKA, EXPERT SEARCHER, PAUL R. LASKA FORENSIC CONSULTING, INC.: Yes. That`s a good question. But right now we don`t know and we really don`t know from what they are releasing whether he was taken or maybe he might have toddled off. So it`s a -- it`s a hard question for right now.
CASAREZ: To Dr. Evans -- Dr. Susan Evans, if he left the tent himself, which could have been sort of quiet and nobody could have possibly heard that. This is rugged terrain. This is northern Arizona. It`s not good for him.
DR. SUSAN EVAN, MD, CHIEF OF DERMATOLOGY, SKINCARE PHYSICIANS OF BEVERLY HILLS: No, it isn`t. That means he`s surviving on his own. And for children, it`s really difficult for them to go for periods of time without water. I mean, you know, in an arid area that`s really warm, it`s about two days that he could survive without water.
In normal temperatures it would be three days. And I confirmed this with a pediatrician, a colleague in Beverly Hills, Dr. Hasselman (ph). Unfortunately, it`s not very favorable for him if he`s on his own.
CASAREZ: And he`s barefoot.
Let`s go to the callers. Dorothy in Illinois. Hi, Dorothy. Good evening.
DOROTHY, CALLER FROM ILLINOIS: Yes, hi. Please. I`m trying to reach -- of Chicago --
CASAREZ: All right. And we will get back to help this lady as soon as we can.
To Mark Harrold, former police officer and author of "Observations of White Noise." Because there were so many people in the tent do we hope at this point that investigators interviewed them all separately? Because what happened close to that time is critical for law enforcement.
MARK HARROLD, FORMER POLICE OFFICER, CITY OF ATLANTA, PD, AUTHOR OF "OBSERVATIONS OF WHITE NOISE": Yes. Absolutely. There`s almost no doubt. I can`t think of any reason that they wouldn`t interview them all separately. Because your chronology here or the questions that you`re asking, when did this person -- when did this child actually go missing, when were they discovered missing, these are all coming from information that`s completely from people who may be suspects.
So yes. You`re definitely going to have all these people -- especially the timeline, you`re going to take everybody, ask them when the last time you saw him was. When`s the last time that the -- any individual stated that they were missing, any other facts.
You`re going to put it together and see if it makes sense. And if all the stories make sense but one, it`s usually going to be that one that you focus on. But they definitely interviewed them separately. There`s no doubt in my mind about that.
CASAREZ: To defense attorney Paul Batista. If you were at all involved in this case what would you tell anyone that was close to that little boy before he went missing?
PAUL BATISTA, DEFENSE ATTORNEY, AUTHOR OF "DEATH`S WITNESS": Well, I would certainly, under these circumstances, advise them to be candid with the police and tell the police what they know.
CASAREZ: All right. It is time to check out this week`s Nancy Grace Facebook crime fighters.
Cadesha in New Jersey loves that Nancy advocates for women and girls. Michelle from Maryland thinks Nancy should be named Woman of the Year. And she loves hearing Nancy`s side of every story. And Sheryl from Texas, well, she loves that Nancy`s fight for victims and their families.
To submit your photos go to CNN.com/Nancygrace and click on Facebook.
It`s "Death on the D-List." It`s going to be out on August 10th. To preorder your copy go to CNN.com/Nancygrace and click on Nancy`s new book.
Hurry. Order your copy of "D on the Death List". It`s going to be another "New York Times" best-seller. Proceeds go to Wesley Glenn to give a loving home to the mentally handicapped who need that home.
We`re very proud of you, Nancy.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Missing 7-year-old Oregon boy Kyron Horman.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: She`s stepmom to missing 7-year-old Kyron Horman.
DESIREE YOUNG, MOTHER OF MISSING 7-YR-OLD BOY, KYRON HORMAN: I have known her a long time. I know she is lying.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Last person to allegedly see him.
YOUNG: I know she`s lying.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Is little Kyron Horman a victim of a planned abduction?
YOUNG: I can`t say it enough that Kyron is still out there and he needs to be home.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Divorce papers cite irreconcilable differences.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Terri Horman will not contest her divorce from Kaine Horman.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We don`t contest anything. Let`s just proceed with this matter.
KAINE HORMAN, FATHER OF MISSING 7-YR-OLD BOY, KYRON HORMAN: She`s hiding where he is and I think her friends are hiding information about her state of mind, her character and maybe any information that they`ve disclosed to her.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Suspicion has mounted and involved Terri Horman, the boy`s stepmother, because she is the last person thought to have seen him alive.
HORMAN: I would not be surprised if two or three of her close friends each have a piece of information that may be related to where Kyron is at, even though she may not have directly stated this is where he is.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
CASAREZ: I`m Jean Casarez of "In Session" sitting in for Nancy Grace tonight.
Kyron Horman. I don`t have to say anything else, right?
Out to Lacey Evans, reporter for KXL Newsradio in Portland, Oregon. What`s the latest today?
LACEY EVANS, REPORTER, KXL NEWSRADIO: Well, the latest we have been hearing from Kaine Horman and more of his kind of emotional stake during this whole process. He said that he feels really guilty that he wasn`t able to protect Kyron and that he wasn`t there for Kyron when he needed him the most.
And he`s actually saying that -- you know, during this investigation we have found out that Terri Horman allegedly tried to hire someone to kill Kaine. This was before Kyron disappeared.
But Kaine is now saying that he wishes that had happened, for that have gone through, so that Kyron would still be here today.
CASAREZ: Oh my goodness. "The Oregonian" just got an interview with Kaine and Desiree. We have got that interview. We want to let everybody listen to a portion of what Kaine Horman has to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
YOUNG: She had e-mailed me during that day to let me know she was going to find out when she could pick up the project so that I could see it. So she obviously didn`t know when she was supposed to pick it up.
HORMAN: Yes. Well, she was pretty concrete that she was picking it up that morning when she was dropping him up.
YOUNG: Yes. Yes.
HORMAN: So that`s -- again you start to get into her story versus what law enforcement has as fact and her story is all over the place. And law enforcement has different information that`s more factual.
YOUNG: Yes.
HORMAN: But that`s what we know from Terri.
YOUNG: Yes.
YOUNG: She was very communicative with me that particular day, which isn`t out of the ordinary. Sometimes I talk on her e-mail with her five times a day. It depends on the day. But she was very short and to the point, which is very unusual for her.
One sentence e-mail she`d shoot off to me. She e-mailed me like three or four times that day which is kind of strange. Normally it is a wordy e- mail. It`s a talking --
HORMAN: Long. She`s very verbose.
YOUNG: You know, just chitchatting back and forth.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
CASAREZ: I want to go out to Marc Klaas, president and founder of KlaasKids Foundation. Let`s look at the timeline, OK? Let`s go back to basics because there`s something on that timeline that just -- I keep thinking about.
She took the truck that morning because of the science fair project and she told her husband Kaine -- because Kaine is saying this in the interview -- that she was going to pick up the science fair project and she need the truck because the truck was his, not hers.
The science fair project could be picked up at 10:00 that morning. It was never picked up. That afternoon they go to the bus stop to get Kyron - - why not go to the school to get Kyron because you have to pick up the science project?
KLAAS: Well, you know, Jean, there`s more to her timeline that makes no sense than that. She also said that she was walking him to his class at 8:45. That they were very near the classroom and that she then waved to him and turned and walked away.
Well, if they were very near the classroom, why would she be waving and what exactly happened in that two or three-second timeline when maybe she wasn`t there and he was? Her story, I keep saying, does not hold any water. And the more scrutiny it comes under, the worse it gets.
But very briefly, I`d just like to say that Kaine Horman should not feel guilty for his son`s disappearance. Kaine Horman is obviously a loving father and has done absolutely nothing but look for his child since then.
And people who find themselves in this situation, the parents of missing or murdered children, oftentimes are able to take advantage of victims` services through the various district attorneys and state victim compensation funds, and get counseling so that they can deal with these very real and very difficult issues that they have -- that they, that we, find ourselves having to deal with.
CASAREZ: And, Marc Klaas, there`s going to be a press conference tomorrow at 2:00 in the afternoon with the family.
To Mark Harrold, former officer of Atlanta Police Department and author of "Observations of White Noise." Another thing that Kaine Horman is now saying in this "Oregonian" interview is Terri Horman specifically said near the beginning that law enforcement told her that her pings on her cell phone that day, June 4th, did not add up to the story she was saying.
That came out of her mouth, according to Kaine.
HARROLD: Yes, the chronology that it helps so much with the cell phone triangulation, the pings that you`re talking about, can really lock somebody down into a story. I`m not sure why law enforcement would necessarily tell her that if they weren`t ready to follow through with it and point out where the inconsistencies in the story.
But I agree with what`s been said so far. The main problem here is that timeline in that original story that she told, it just doesn`t seem to make any sense. And the more it`s told, the more holes come in it.
So yes, I think this is going to come down to that timeline and that`s really her biggest problem as far as explaining what happened on that day.
CASAREZ: To Peter Schaffer, defense attorney, why isn`t there some type of arrest on something with someone at this point?
PETER SCHAFFER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, the police obviously don`t have probable cause. I mean they could say until they`re blue in the face that Terry Horman is not a suspect, that she`s not a person of interest but, of course, she is.
And they are following her every move. But until they have enough probable cause you can`t just go arrest someone because they are suspicious, because they`re the last person seen with a missing person. They really need to nail this down and get enough evidence, if that`s what they intend to.
CASAREZ: To Betty in Kentucky -- sorry, I want to talk to Betty. Hi, Betty.
BETTY, CALLER FROM KENTUCKY: Hi, how are you today?
CASAREZ: I`m fine. What`s your question?
BETTY: My question is that because we do know that she tried to have a -- hire-for-hit (INAUDIBLE), is possibly about the son missing that she was getting some type of money or, like, you know, insurance policy or anything like that? Maybe that`s why, you know, she even got that lump sum of money or anything like that?
CASAREZ: Well, you know what we learned -- first of all, she is not the birth mother. And so I don`t think she would have any right to under an insurance policy. But according to a legal document, they`re saying that that $350,000, her attorney is saying that she didn`t pay near that amount. That that allegation from his side is not the truth.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The last known person to see little Kyron alive.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: She was the first person to pick him up along with his father at 3:45.
YOUNG: The worst hell I`ve ever experienced.
HORMAN: We will not stop until we find you.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Do you think Dede was involved in Kyron`s disappearance in any fashion -- her actions?
YOUNG: Yes.
(CROSSTALK)
YOUNG: Yes, what she`s doing. What she`s not doing, not cooperating, just give me a sick feeling in my stomach when I see her on the news and she`s smug about this whole case, when they ask her about Kyron, I don`t like that.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
CASAREZ: That is Desiree Young talking about Dede Spicher who you saw in the video right there. The very, very close friend of Terri Horman who has been called before the grand jury, had her home searched but did talk to law enforcement for 3 1/2 hours.
Out to Paul Batista. There is a motion that`s been filed by Terri Horman`s divorce lawyer. A motion to abate the divorce proceedings. She wants this over quickly.
Explain for everybody what it is and why she`s probably doing it.
BATISTA: Well, that`s probably a good tactic. There`s a divorce proceeding pending. In it Kaine Horman can ask her questions about, among other things, the fate of the boy, the source of the $350,000 in legal fees.
So if she suspends that case as she`s doing, then there are no questions that she can be asked, at least in that civil case. It`s a good protective measure for her to take and I think she was well advised to do it.
CASAREZ: And it`s very interesting. Very quickly, Glenna in California. Hi, Glenna.
GLENNA, CALLER FROM CALIFORNIA: Hi, Jean. Love you, dear. You`re so gracious.
CASAREZ: Thank you.
GLENNA: I was wondering if there`s ever been a DNA test done on the baby to check and see if Kaine Horman is actually the biological father? Or maybe that`s why she was so comfortable in approaching that landscaper.
CASAREZ: You know, Glenna, I am sure that they have taken DNA because if they would find remains they want to be able to match it. So they have gone to the home and they have gotten everything they can to try to get that little boy`s DNA.
Tonight let us stop to remember Marine Corporal Christopher Zimny, 27 years old of Cook, Illinois, killed in Iraq. He was on a second tour of duty and he was awarded three Purple Hearts.
He loved the Chicago Cubs, Miller High Life, the Doors and the Dave Matthews Band. He played basketball in school and he ran on the track time. He leaves behind his parents, Ted and Barbara, three sisters, Michelle and Danielle and Lisa, and brother John.
Christopher Zimny, an American hero.
Thank you so much to all of our guests but our biggest thank you is to you for being with us tonight, inviting us into your homes.
Don`t forget Nancy`s new book, it`s "Death on the D-List." It`s going to be out August 10. You can preorder your copy. Go straight to CNN.com/NancyGrace. Click on Nancy`s new book.
Proceeds go to Wesley Glenn to give loving homes to children that are mentally handicapped.
We`ll see you tomorrow night 8:00 sharp. Until then, good night, everybody.
END
