Return to Transcripts main page
Joy Behar Page
Search for Kyron Horman; First Lady`s First Controversy
Aired August 09, 2010 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Tonight on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW, the search for 7- year-old Kyron Horman ratchets up as cops scour the area near the school where Kyron was last seen in June. What tips sparked this latest search? And are police closer to naming a suspect?
Then you`ve heard of weight loss camp. But a new series follows teens attending a weight loss boarding school. A few kids featured on the show will stop by to discuss the challenges of being an obese teenager.
Plus Tiger Woods falls apart on the course shooting his worst score ever. With the cheating scandal looming large over his career, is he in the midst of a historic meltdown?
That and more starting right now.
SHAUN ROBINSON, GUEST HOST: Hi, everybody. Welcome to THE JOY BEHAR SHOW. I`m Shaun Robinson filling in while Joy gets some well deserved R & R.
We begin tonight with the continued search for missing 7-year-old Kyron Horman. Investigators stepped up their efforts over the weekend acting on information reportedly learned from a grand jury testimony.
They`re focusing on an area where a friend of Terri Horman`s, the boy`s stepmother, was gardening the day that he disappeared. Joining me now to talk about this case are Joey Jackson, defense attorney and former prosecutor; Pat Brown, criminal profiler and author of "The Profiler: my life hunting serial killers and psychopaths"; and Bruce McCain, the former captain of the local sheriff`s office where Kyron disappeared.
Thank you, everyone, for joining us this evening.
First of all Bruce, let me start with you. The search was stepped up, I understand, because of a tip that was called in. What can you tell us about that?
JOEY JACKSON, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Apparently Shaun there was some sort of tip that occurred. Now, here`s what it is. You have the friend and you have these three friends of the stepmother, ok?
And so ultimately, there was information that was given. One of them has three different properties. She was gardening in one of the properties. There was some indication that she went missing for about an hour during the course of the day where the child was actually -- you know disappeared. So as a result of that, they`re looking at that property. She has connections to two other properties that they`re looking at as well.
You got to put your head out, the police -- they`re doing a wonderful job attempting to get to the source of this.
ROBINSON: All right. Pat, now investigators say they`re looking for forensic evidence. What exactly does that mean? Are we talking about -- God forbid, are we talking about a body here?
PAT BROWN, CRIMINAL PROFILER: Well, Shaun, I think -- in a strange way, I think everybody is actually hoping that because they want closure for all this. I mean we all hope he`s alive, but chances are very, very minimal. At least they`re hoping they`ll find Kyron so they can find out what happened to him.
They`re looking on these properties that are actually associated with Dede. If that were true they`re looking for a body, then Dede would have had to have been actually helping out and actually doing something with the body which would be huge.
Or the other possibility is that they`re not looking for a body. They`re looking for something else like she took the phones that they had and got rid of the cell phones on the property. And that`s what they`re looking for.
ROBINSON: Ok. We`re going to talk about the cell phones in just a minute.
BROWN: All right.
ROBINSON: But let me ask you Bruce, what can you tell us about this search area?
BRUCE MCCAIN, FORMER CAPTAIN, MULTNOMAH COUNTY SHERIFF`S OFFICE: Well, Shaun, this is actually about a 2.2-mile loop called Old Germantown Road. It surrounds the area near the school. It`s also near the property where Dede was apparently guarding that day. We`ve already heard the searchers are out again combing through some very, very rough terrain off the side of the roads.
But also just as importantly, the criminal investigators are also now once again going door to door distributing flyers like they did before with the white Ford pickup truck, Terri Horman`s photo and now for the first time Dede Spicher`s photo is now associated on those flyers.
So once again they`re trying to go back and reconstruct that June 4th morning when Dede Spicher and Terri Horman had an about an hour and a half overlap where neither one can really account for their time and presence.
ROBINSON: But right now Dede Spicher isn`t being called a suspect, correct?
MCCAIN: Nobody`s called a suspect at this point. But Dede Spicher is probably up to her eyeballs in some no good here. She was call before the grand jury, did not give testimony, but that certainly got her attention.
Right now she`s got about an hour and a half she can`t account for which overlaps with the time Terri Horman told investigators initially that she was driving the white truck around some country road trying to get her little daughter to go to sleep. None of this stuff is adding up.
ROBINSON: All right. Let`s talk about these cell phones. Everybody gets these cell phones; a lot of people get these cell phones -- you don`t really have to account -- you don`t have to give your address or your actual name.
JACKSON: Exactly.
ROBINSON: Why would anybody get a cell phone with a fake name?
JACKSON: Well, from a defense perspective, Shaun, this is what you say. Look, people want privacy. She knows -- that is, the stepmother knows that she`s under investigation. Forget about the fact that they`re not calling her a suspect or person of interest. She`s wise enough to know that she`s under surveillance and investigation.
People from a defense perspective deserve their privacy. To the extent that she knows she`s being watched and monitored, she wants privacy. She doesn`t want the drama. She wants to continue her normal. So what that she got a cell phone that was prepaid?
ROBINSON: I don`t know. Pat, do you think that there would be a reason that she`s not giving her actual name? First of all, she knows that investigators are looking at her. Why would she even bother getting this with a fake name?
BROWN: Right. I kind of like that defense theory. That`s a good one.
JACKSON: Thank you, Pat.
BROWN: Yes. Exactly. And if Dede is helping Terri with this, then you can just simply say she`s a good friend who doesn`t think her friend is guilty of anything. And she just feels like she`s been -- the media is all over her and everything`s unfair and they just want to have some privacy between the two so they can chitchat.
On the other hand, sometimes good friends help -- you know, good friends help you move but good friends help you move bodies. So if she was involved in that aspect of the case, she`s in a whole lot more trouble.
ROBINSON: All right. Right now Dede isn`t able to fully account for her whereabouts on June 4th. Joey, let me ask you, if I`m under investigation, I`m going to figure out some place I was if the investigators are asking.
JACKSON: That`s true. But you also --
ROBINSON: Why can`t she account for her whereabouts?
JACKSON: All right. Shaun, listen, but you don`t want to misrepresent where you are. And the fact is, on any given day, you`re a busy woman. You have 101 things going on. None of us on any given day can reconstruct or otherwise recall specifically where we are.
I don`t think that it is nefarious by any means that somebody can`t account for an hour and a half. Maybe she`s with a friend. Maybe she`s with a friend of a friend. Who knows?
ROBINSON: Well, I`m telling you one thing -- if they`re asking if I was disposing of a body, I would tell them where I was.
JACKSON: Oh, yes.
ROBINSON: I mean, I don`t know -- Bruce, is there any reason that this woman would not be able to tell police where she was during this time?
MCCAIN: Well, this very well may come back to these cell phones because we assume at this point that the cell phones purchased only after June 4th. There`s another very distinct possibility here that Terri may have been using phones like that before.
Because here`s the key Shaun, we have not been able to make a connection between the two theories that Terri Horman was involved in the planning of Kyron`s disappearance and this continuing belief that he`s being stashed by some unknown third party kidnapper.
And they`re trying right now -- they`ve got a big gap in their surveillance intelligence if in fact Terri Horman was using disposable phones even before June 4th to set up this third party kidnapping; that`s a very, very critical thing right here. But finding a cell phone in the woods is the needle in the haystack right now.
ROBINSON: Right. Well, Kyron`s parents believe that he`s still alive. Let`s take a listen to what they had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DESIREE YOUNG, KYRON HORMAN`S MOTHER: I have a feeling that somebody`s holding him. I don`t know if I can elaborate other than that. It`s just a feeling. They believe he`s still alive as well. We don`t have any evidence to show that he`s not which is a big deal. It`s a big deal.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROBINSON: That`s Kyron`s mother. I`m telling you, that is just heartbreaking to hear her say that.
Pat, you know, we hear these stories about these missing kids. And most of the time they don`t turn out for the good; most of the time the kid turns up dead. Is there any reason that we have to believe that Kyron could still be alive?
BROWN: Well, you`re absolutely correct, Shaun; most of the time if it`s a custodial parent who`s done something with the child -- it`s happened before we find out the child has gone missing. And if the child goes missing from a child predator, they`re usually dead within the hour because they simply want to do what they want to do and get rid of them.
The only reason -- there`s a couple of reasons where you can look at him possibly being alive, although it does make you think it`s really not going to turn out that way. One is the simple fact the parents want to believe that. But because it`s such a bizarre case, could there have been some really freaky thing somebody was trying to do for some unknown reason.
Then after they started doing this very big clever plan, some big CSI thing that they spent too much time watching TV and thought they could come up with some brilliant idea, some psychopathic drama that perhaps they did do something. And then, you know, then the thing went south for them and it didn`t go the way they wanted it to.
That leads to another big fear. If things have gone south and Kyron was alive for a period of time, does the person keeping him want to keep him alive and be found with that child after all this time? Would they have done that or at some point they have decided it`s too risky and disposed of the child.
It doesn`t look good. But I`m with Kyron`s parents. I`d want to believe that if it were my child, that the child is coming home.
ROBINSON: Now, Terri, Kyron`s stepmother allegedly hired a hit man to kill her husband Kaine. You know, we`re not even going to talk about what her character is if this is true. But what would the motivation be for the stepmother to kill the stepson? I don`t know. What, is it because of anger at the husband?
JACKSON: You know what, Shaun, it`s always difficult to sort of conjure up what it could be. It could be the fact that she wants to get back at the husband. It could be that she`s jealous. It could be that she just wants to exact her pound of flesh in revenge by having him suffer because she`s suffering. Whatever it is, we don`t know.
There`s a lot of smoke here at this point, Shaun, but there`s very little fire. And I think the purpose of the grand jury is ultimately to dig deep, to follow all these leads to get to the bottom of it and see what`s what. If they`re relying on cell phones in and of itself, I think that`s problematic. You got to get more evidence than simply cell phones and an hour and half where she wasn`t during a certain day.
ROBINSON: Ok. So Bruce, tell me. You know, you`ve -- you have been a former captain in the local sheriff`s department. What is your gut -- what does your gut tell you what happened to this little boy?
MCCAIN: Well, two things, Shaun. I`m also a practicing law here in Oregon, so I kind of understand this grand jury process as well. I think it`s important to note that the grand jury can also be used as an investigative tool. So everybody is looking for imminent indictments.
We have a kind of juxtaposition right now between ongoing grand jury as well as very, very active evidence gathering search. So we may not see indictments out of this particular grand jury where the case could be withdrawn and represented.
But I`m still troubled by the disconnect between these two theories that Terri Horman plotted and planned his disappearance and yet he`s somehow being kept alive, clothed and fed every night either in a nice warm bed or in a pit like "Silence of the Lambs."
ROBINSON: Right.
MCCAIN: Or something in between.
BROWN: Exactly.
MCCAIN: Nobody has been able to make a connection there. So at this point, I`m -- I`m not hopeful. I understand why the parents should be.
ROBINSON: Ok.
JACKSON: First it`s tough (ph) but you got to hold out hope. I guess that`s --
ROBINSON: Right.
JACKSON: -- the final analysis.
ROBINSON: All right. Thank you, everybody for joining us.
JACKSON: Thank you Shaun.
ROBINSON: We really appreciate it. We`ll be back in just a minute.
BROWN: Thanks Shaun.
ROBINSON: Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Coming up a little later on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW, the latest on Rosie O`Donnell`s plan to return to daytime TV with a little help from Oprah.
And Tiger Woods` latest meltdown, this time on the golf course. Are Woods` personal demons ruining his golf game?
Now back to the show.
ROBINSON: Well, First Lady Michelle Obama and daughter Sasha returned home last night after spending some time in Spain. But it was not a trip without controversy, to say the least.
Many critics wondering if this was the right time for Mrs. Obama to show her daughter other parts of the world while so many here at home are facing economic hardship.
With me to discuss this and more are journalist Lisa Ling, my friend; Howard Bragman, celebrity publicist extraordinaire and author of "Where`s My 15 Minutes?"; and Melissa Rycroft, host of "Bachelor Pad".
Three friends here on the panel; I`m glad to see you guys.
Ok first of all, Howard, if you were Michelle Obama`s publicist and she told you she was about to take her daughter to Spain, what would you have said?
HOWARD BRAGMAN, AUTHOR, "WHERE`S MY 15 MINUTES?": I would say more power to you.
ROBINSON: Would you?
BRAGMAN: We finally have a President who can travel to a country other than Albania without getting booed and rotten tomatoes thrown at him and shoes thrown at him.
ROBINSON: You don`t have any problem with that at all?
BRAGMAN: I understand where the criticism comes from, but I also understand in this very bipolar political world we`re in, that anything they do is going to be criticized. And you get a thick skin and you do the right thing.
LISA LING, JOURNALIST: Yes, I don`t have a problem with them going on vacation and Michelle Obama taking the girls to explore different countries. I just wonder if they anticipated the consequences?
ROBINSON: Well, that`s really interesting the fact that you say that.
LING: The fact that we`re even debating this and discussing this tonight.
ROBINSON: Do you think that the White House, do you think that Mrs. Obama expected this type of criticism?
LING: How can you not? How can you not when you`re staying at such a luxurious hotel.
(CROSSTALK)
BRAGMAN: Absolutely.
LING: And -- and there is a cost to taxpayers. So how can you not anticipate it?
ROBINSON: But why --
BRAGMAN: But there`s a cost to taxpayers if she goes to Florida or New England or anything else.
(CROSSTALK)
LING: It`s true.
ROBINSON: But the White House defended Mrs. Obama`s trip saying that she should be off limits. Do you agree with that, Melissa?
MELISSA RYCROFT, HOST, "BACHELOR PAD": I don`t, well, I mean, I think that we need to be rational here. She`s not the only one these days that takes extravagant trips. I mean, you have to open up a rag mag or turn on the TV and see people, Alex Rodriguez and Britney Spears taking trips much more lavish than what she just did in this -- these economic times.
ROBINSON: But the President is -- I mean, the President is elected by the people and the expenses are incurred by the taxpayers, so there`s a difference.
RYCROFT: Well, I understand that. I understand the security --
(CROSSTALK)
BRAGMAN: Listen, I`d rather do that than buy bombs for a rat, ok I`m much happier --
LING: Now we`re doing both.
BRAGMAN: -- paying for room service.
ROBINSON: Ok, well, Michelle paid -- the White House says that Michelle paid her own way but the Secret Service reportedly cost $250,000, which is the amount that`s covered by the taxpayers.
Now, should that matter because obviously the First Lady has to have security wherever she goes?
BRAGMAN: If you were to look at what everything the President does and every decision and based it on the cost of the logistics of getting there, he would stay in the White House and never leave. And you would still spend millions of dollars a week protecting them.
ROBINSON: But part of me feels that this First Lady is under much more scrutiny than other first ladies of the past. Remember when Nancy Reagan redecorated the White House with the fine China and all that during the recession? I mean, I don`t remember that being as much of a controversy as this Michelle taking her daughter to -- overseas.
What do you think?
LING: I guess Laura Bush was just kind of boring. Sorry.
BRAGMAN: It was a controversy.
ROBINSON: That was Nancy Reagan.
BRAGMAN: You guys are all younger than me. It was a controversy with Nancy Reagan. It absolutely was a controversy there but that goes with the territory.
LING: It does. And I do think that -- that first ladies and first families are always scrutinized. I mean, I think this one is -- this family in particular just because we`re going through such economic woes that there may be more controversy.
ROBINSON: Well, that was also during a recession when they were buying China. But let`s move on. Up next --
BRAGMAN: Sure.
ROBINSON: -- we heard a story about Kate Gosselin who went on a camping trip in the Alaskan wilderness with Sarah Palin for her show "Kate plus 8", but we didn`t hear about Kate`s apparent meltdown in front of Mrs. Palin over the facilities she had to use in the woods. I guess there were none.
Now, is it ok to be kind of a diva in front of the former vice presidential candidate? I don`t know. This is for the show. The reality shows, I don`t know, there`s a little bit of non-reality, as we know.
But first of all, I`m wondering, Howard, would you have advised Sarah Palin to go on "Kate plus 8"?
BRAGMAN: Oh, well --
(CROSSTALK)
ROBINSON: If she`s going to run again? I don`t know.
BRAGMAN: I`m not -- I`m not thinking I`m the first choice of people Sarah Palin`s going to call as her adviser.
But you know what? This is reality TV. Controversy is what fuels reality TV. This is great for both of them. Kate Gosselin gets to get in the press and gets to be the equal of Sarah Palin and having that little moment.
Sarah Palin gets to look like she`s this Alaska frontier woman who`s pooping in buckets in the woods. They`re both happy.
LING: I just have one question. John McCain, what were you thinking? I mean, this wouldn`t even be happening if John McCain hadn`t chosen --
BRAGMAN: But can I say something --
ROBINSON: Yes.
BRAGMAN: -- I want to say something that will surprise people. I -- there is nobody probably in politics I disagree with more than Sarah Palin. Ok? On a purely ideological basis, but she has an undeniable appeal and an undeniable future. People adore her in the same way that Ronald Reagan did.
LING: And people love to watch her. But if you were going to --
(CROSSTALK)
BRAGMAN: No, no, she wasn`t ready for that job, ok?
LING: -- if you think you`re prepared to be the vice president of the United States -- the leader of the free world, then you are --
ROBINSON: I think that if she does decide to run again, I bet her camping with "Kate plus 8" will be on somebody`s political ad. I bet you it will be.
(CROSS TALKING)
ROBINSON: Ok, guys, more pop culture dish is on the way, so sit tight.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ROBINSON: Hi, everybody. I`m back with my panel. Now, Bruce Jenner, patriarch of reality TV`s Kardashian clan has come to the defense of his 14-year-old daughter Kendall after she recently posed for some pretty racy bikini photos. Take a look at what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BRUCE JENNER, REALITY TV STAR: She wasn`t showing anything that was inappropriate or too much cleavage or anything like that. They were just hot shots, you know, for like an old person. So I saw the pictures and I said, ok. But if that`s what she wants to do, she wants to be a model, more power to her.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROBINSON: I don`t know. I`m not a prude at all. I don`t think they were that bad. I mean, 14-year-olds wear bikinis. You go down to the beach. Any beach at all.
(CROSS TALKING)
LING: And they`re all 14 years old anyway.
ROBINSON: I don`t think it was a big deal.
BRAGMAN: And 14 is not like when I was a kid. I mean 14, if you want to be a model, 14 is about when you start pursuing that.
LING: True.
ROBINSON: But a lot of people thought they were way too racy and that a 14-year-old should not be posing in a bikini for some perv to start looking at her.
UF2: I don`t think the poses themselves are bad. I don`t think the pictures are bad. I think what looks controversial is right here, her face. When you think of 14-year-old girls, there`s an innocence to that, there`s a sweetness to that. When she`s looking at the camera like she wants to seduce it, that takes the picture from I think what should be PG to the over NC-17 rating. And I think that`s a lot of what the issue is.
LING: I`m sure these parents have the best intentions at hand. I mean they would never exploit their kids. Sorry.
(CROSS TALKING)
ROBINSON: Lisa, say what you want to say. You think what, that --
LING: I don`t know. I think that they enjoy the spotlight, the family. So I can`t imagine --
BRAGMAN: You know what. I`ve done a lot of work with Kim over the years. And she is a lovely young lady.
ROBINSON: You`re talking about the sister.
BRAGMAN: Well brought up, polite, well-mannered, professional, and one of my favorite people to work with because she`s a pro. And she was raised well. And they work hard these kids. And I know plenty of young actors who don`t have that kind of discipline.
LING: And I don`t mean to be disparaging about them personally. But they seem to be a family that really likes to --
BRAGMAN: Like the Cyruses, you know. Every time they have a kid, there`s another annuity born.
(CROSS TALKING)
ROBINSON: Rosie O`Donnell is reportedly return to daytime TV with a talk show on Oprah`s new network. Is America ready for the return of Rosie? I know I am. I love Rosie.
And I think that she`s obviously very, very controversial. But I think she just adds a real spark to whatever show she`s on.
And Lisa, you are going to be on the O Network.
LING: Yes. It`s great.
ROBINSON: So are you excited about her return?
LING: I`m really excited. I think she has a really unique voice and she isn`t afraid of using it. And I think that the network would really benefit from it. I`m looking forward to it.
BRAGMAN: And remember, Rosie left at the top. Rosie didn`t wait until her ratings were in the crapper before she left. She was at the top when she left and if she can aggregate a couple million people that`s going to help define that network.
We don`t like namby-pamby TV. We like point of view TV now and that`s what she`s going to bring them.
ROBINS: You know, I`m a fan; I like watching her so I`m glad that she`s coming back.
Thank you, everybody for coming. I`m so glad that you guys are here.
You can catch Melissa Rycroft on "Bachelor Pad" Mondays at 8:00 p.m. on ABC.
Up next, Tiger Woods posts the worst score of his career over the weekend. So has the cheating scandal ruined his golf game? Stick around.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ROBINSON: Wow as if things weren`t bad enough for Tiger Woods, the former golf champ, he shot the worst score of his professional career this weekend at the Bridgestone Invitational in Akron, Ohio, placing second to last in an event he has previously won seven times. With me now to discuss Tiger`s performance is Stephen A. Smith, nationally syndicated sports -- FOX sports radio host. And Stephen, I don`t even play golf, and I think I can do better than 18 over par.
STEPHEN A. SMITH, NATIONALLY SYNDICATED FOX SPORTS RADIO HOST: Well, yes, you don`t play golf. Because some of us are so pathetic, it doesn`t matter. I mean, I still couldn`t beat him on his worst day. Nobody - you know, a lot of people can`t. But it clearly was an awful situation. Tiger Woods has not looked this bad. It just seems to a lot of people watching him that this is just a nose dive of epic proportions. It`s really difficult to explain. It`s gotten to the point where, quite honestly, I feel nothing but compassion for him. You don`t wish this on anybody, this kind of precipitous downfall. It`s has been absolutely, god awful, to watch. It`s a shame really.
ROBINSON: You know Stephen, you know, you are empathetic but a lot of people are saying, you know what? This is karma. You know you`ve heard that, right?
SMITH: Of course I have. That`s a legitimate argument, but at the same time, let`s be real about something here. You know the karma that you would hope somebody would experience in this particular situation is that, you know what? Maybe you`re not able happy to find happiness or maybe you go through an ugly divorce. I mean my goodness, the wife has already reportedly scheduled to walk away with $100 million. I mean he`s got a situation right now. He`s got to work out custody and visitation in regards to his children. So certainly you have to believe that that`s enough suffering for any one human being. When you combine that with the fact that he`s playing some god awful golf, he looks absolutely abysmal by any sense of the imagination, you do get to the point as a human being with a soul regardless of what karma is all about, you don`t wish this on anybody. You really don`t.
ROBINSON: Yes, I have been really tough on Tiger, Stephen, but I tell you, I hear some people say, god, why does a man play better when he`s having an affair than when he`s been found out?
SMITH: Oh because he`s having a good time. I mean that has a lot to do with it. I mean if you`re having a good time, that would have a lot to do with affecting your game. Remember, this is not -- a lot of people looking at the situation. This isn`t about him being miserable over the fact you know what, he`s getting a divorce and he`s not going to be able to be with his wife and instead he has the freedom to go out and be single. Trust me. I don`t think that`s an issue in regards to his level of depression that may be affecting him. I think the overall, you know, impact that it`s had on his life has had a catastrophic effect on him. It`s the divorce, it`s the money she`s walking away with, it`s the fact that his children are going to be affected. It`s the fact that his mother was embarrassed by this whole situation because her son was in the mix. When you consider the fact that she`s of Thai and Chinese ancestry, you know, and you talk about his Buddhist principles or he talked about his Buddhist principles, then you have to take into account that saving face, putting a good face on things, making sure you look good in the eyes of the public is just as pivotal at his real life circumstances may be. So the fact that he`s been so publicly humiliated since thanksgiving night by this entire fiasco has been a very, very tremendous thing to happen to him. And he`s having a tough time dealing with it. If he had the ability to tell people to go to hell and kick rocks, he might be better off. But clearly, that`s not within him to do such things.
ROBINSON: Well you know, that`s interesting. You were talking about that press conference that he had held when he was talking about the principles that he believes in.
SMITH: That`s the press conference, yes.
ROBINSON: What -- why isn`t he translating that focus to when he`s playing now?
SMITH: Well, he`s talked about what he should be doing and what he would try to do, but trying to do something and being able to do it is entirely two different situations. Again, when you step away from the game for however long of a period it may be. In his case, it was approximately three months, the reality is that ultimately the pressure mounts because once you get back on that golf course and you are away from your family but your home life is not taken care of, it can have a very detrimental effect on your game because of your psyche. You are not thinking about the game of golf. You don`t have tunnel vision, you know, your children cross your mind, your wife crosses your mind. You remember one of the women that he allegedly, reportedly had messed with, she said he didn`t do anything for her but treated her to a subway sandwich. Well if all you did was treated her to a subway sandwich, imagine how he feels to be giving up more than $100 million of his money. It can have a detrimental effect on a human being.
ROBINSON: Well you know, that`s a lot better than those initial reports of $750 million.
SMITH: Well of course, but $100 million is $100 million sweetheart, nobody`s trying to hear that. I mean that`s just the way it comes out to. He might be relieved or might have been relieved when the reports first came out saying that you know what it`s not 700 million after all, but at the end of the day you`re still counting and you`re saying $100 million. For who? I love her, I care for her, she`s the mother of my kids, I want to take care of her, but $100 million? I got to give up that much money? That would hurt any man and that would be a tremendous distraction to any man.
ROBINSON: Yes, that behind is really expensive. Thank you very much, Stephen.
SMITH: You said it, I didn`t. But it was perfect, but it was beautiful the way you elocuted that, no doubt. No doubt.
ROBINSON: OK thank you very much, Stephen. Now, as Tiger continues to struggle on the course, there is a new series that chronicles a struggle of an entirely different kind. "TOO FAT FOR FIFTEEN: FIGHTING BACK" on the Style Network follows a group of obese teens as they battle their weight. Let`s take a look. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s an addiction. Like we just never can stop eating. And if we try to, we just eat again.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I eat things I like. When I like something, I eat a lot of it.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Whenever I had something like on my mind, I wouldn`t talk to my mom or anybody. I would eat.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And I ate so much of it -- it just got out of control.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROBINSON: Wow now here with me is Susan Borgman, clinical director of Wellspring Academy and joining me are two teens featured on "TOO FAT FOR 15." You just saw 14-year-old Scott Basso who is loving the camera right now and 17 year old, Tanisha Mitchell. Thank you for joining us. Susan, tell us about wellspring academy and how did the show come to be?
SUSAN BORGMAN, CLINICAL DIRECTOR, WELLSPRING ACADEMY: Wellspring Academy is a private boarding school that focuses on weight loss but also is all about how to learn about how to think, how to change your thinking and how to reach your goals. The show came about because we`re really concerned about all the kids that are out there that don`t know how to deal with their weight issues. We wanted them to see.
ROBINSON: Because kids have so many other issues than adults do when they`re battling their weight. And Scott, I saw you, you were so emotional on that tape. Tell me, what was it like for you when you first started at this Academy? I know that there were a lot of things going on in your personal life. Like kids teasing you and having all kinds of hardships.
SCOTT BASSO, FEATURED ON "TOO FAT FOR 15: FIGHTING BACK": It was really hard. There were a lot of kids that just -- they tease me all the time. And it got to the point where it was a constant fight with my mom to just not to go to school.
ROBINSON: Really, what kinds of things would they say?
BASSO: They would just tease me about it, about my weight and everything and just make fun of me about it. And I mean I don`t know if a lot of kids don`t really understand what that does to people, but it`s -- it hurts.
ROBINSON: Right.
BASSO: Because a lot of people it hurts them pretty bad.
ROBINSON: Tough for you to concentrate on your school work and everything.
BASSO: Exactly.
ROBINSON: What was your top weight, Scott? Do you mind telling me?
BASSO: I was around 366 pounds when I got there.
ROBINSON: And how much have you lost so far?
BASSO: I`ve lost over 60 pounds.
ROBINSON: Great. Great job, Scott. Great job. Tanisha, how are you doing, hon? I could see you on the videotape. I can see you lost a lot of weight. What was your top weight?
TANISHA MITCHELL, FEATURED ON "TOO FAT FOR 15: FIGHTING BACK": I weighed in at wellspring at 510 pounds.
ROBINSON: Five hundred ten. And I understand you didn`t even know how much you weighed at first, right?
MITCHELL: Right.
ROBINSON: Because no scales at home at all?
MITCHELL: No.
ROBINSON: And how much have you lost so far?
MITCHELL: Over 150.
ROBINSON: Wow. Great job. Great job. Tell me, Tanisha, what is it like for a young person like yourself to go to school -- before this you were going to school with kids who didn`t really understand what you were struggling with. What was it like for you?
MITCHELL: I was home schooled before Wellspring.
ROBINSON: Were you home schooled because of your weight, that you didn`t want to go to school?
MITCHELL: Oh, no. I have been homebound because of surgeries I`ve been having on my legs. There`s something I have called Blount`s disease. So most of my school career was spent at home. So I didn`t have the element of social -- socializing with kids my age.
ROBINSON: Right, right. I bet you can understand what Scott was going through, right?
MITCHELL: Oh, yes.
ROBINSON: Most definitely. When they come into the school, what is the first thing that you do?
BORGMAN: Well it`s a total immerse program. The first thing we do is get them up really early in the morning.
ROBINSON: How early is early, guys?
MITCHELL: 6:30.
ROBINSON: 6:30 oh, my goodness. Rise and shine.
BORGMAN: We have three simple changes. They start taking 10,000 steps a day. They start eating very low fat. And they start journaling everything that they`re doing.
ROBINSON: Uh huh.
BROGMAN: So first thing in the morning they`re out there doing an activity, then they have a healthy breakfast. Their day is planned out so they`re in to healthy habits from the get-go.
ROBINSON: Wow OK, we are going to take a short break and talk more about the show, "TOO FAT FOR 15."
Stay with us and when hen we come back, David Hasselhoff`s daughter, Hayley, will join us in the conversation.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, my god. What in the world have I gotten myself into. I couldn`t be in and play for a whole minute. I definitely felt angry with myself.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROBINSON: Wow. That was another look at the new series "TOO FAT FOR 15: FIGHTING BACK." I`m back with our panel talking about obesity and children. And joining our conversation is actress Hayley Hasselhoff currently starring in ABC Family`s hit series "HUGE." And Hayley thanks so much for joining us right now.
HAYLEY HASSELHOFF, ACTRESS: Thank you.
ROBINSON: You star on a show about a weight loss camp. It is a fiction version of what these teens are going through. Why do you think it`s important to have a show like this?
HASSELHOFF: Because it`s something to be relatable. I think that there`s a lot of kids out there that need to look at the television and see that it`s OK to be voluptuous and that there`s so many other kids out there that are going through the exact same problems as them so they don`t feel alone. I think that`s the biggest thing, is that kids feel alone and a lot of teenage problems that go on. So to have somebody on the television that`s going through the exact same problems as them will help them, definitely.
ROBINSON: Right. Now have you struggled with your own self-esteem throughout the years? I think I`ve heard you talk about this before as it relates to your weight and how other people weren`t accepting of you?
HASSELHOFF: Yes, no, definitely. I think every boy and girl just growing into themselves struggles with understanding why they don`t look like the person next to them.
ROBINSON: Right.
HASSELHOFF: But I definitely think I struggled with my weight growing. It always fluctuated. I had the privilege of being a plus-sized model at such a young age. So I got the recognition that understanding being a curvy girl was OK and that`s beautiful. And it is truly about the person you are on the inside not the outside. I was very privileged to realize that from the beginning.
ROBINSON: Right.
HASSLEHOFF: But you know, I think that everybody`s beautiful no matter what size they are.
ROBINSON: Now Susan, let me bring you back into this discussion. The Wellspring Academy, I`m sure there are a lot of parents who would want their children to attend the academy. But it`s not cheap, right? It`s like what, $25,000?
BORGMAN: It`s about $6,000 a month.
ROBINSON: Six thousand a month, OK, so, you know Scott, you were just saying that your family isn`t a wealthy family at all. And to be able -- how are you able to be a part of this academy?
BASSO: Our community was really supportive. While I was actually at Wellspring, my family had a benefit, and we raised money for that through that and a lot of people have just donated a lot of money. Like my church donated around $5,000.
ROBINSON: Really?
BASSO: When we first started. Air they`re still donating. Every week at church more people donate.
ROBINSON: After going through the Academy Tanisha, what type of habits have you now gotten rid of? And I know you can eat a lot healthier today than you were able to back then when you were first starting off.
MITCHELL: Yes, definitely. I just -- it was all mental for me.
ROBINSON: Yes.
MITCHELL: The biggest changes I had to make were mental.
ROBINSON: Uh huh, like what?
MITCHELL: My problem was that I looked too far into the future. And that I overanalyzed every single thing. And I would panic myself that way. And getting to Wellspring and realizing how long of a journey I had in front of me would have become completely overwhelmed if I hadn`t looked at it one day at a time. So coming home and still having a ways to go before I reach my healthy weight range, I think I`ve definitely gotten out of the habit of overanalyzing. I`ve taken it one day and one step at a time.
ROBINSON: Right, one step at a time. One step at a time. That is great. Susan, a lot of people watching this may say that the parents are at fault. That why would a person allow their children to get to the point where they are so overweight? Is it always the parents` fault?
BORGMAN: No. I have a lot of empathy for the parents. They don`t know what to do. And there`s not a lot of information out there. One of the goals that Wellspring has is to make people more aware. And we`re starting with the kids here and developing their self-awareness. And we`re reaching out to doctors and to families to help them become more aware.
ROBINSON: Is it because a lot of times the parents don`t have these healthy eating habits themselves?
BORGMAN: Because they`ve never been taught. So they don`t have that going for them. Right.
ROBINSON: Hayley you are in a business where, you know, the size 2 is the norm. And being a plus-sized model you were saying brought with it certain challenges. How have you been able to deal with that in your business?
HASSELFHOFF: You know, that never affected me. I had such a great family that brought me up to tell me that I was beautiful no matter what size I was. And you know, I think that healthy -- it`s not always about being healthy physically. It`s about emotionally and mentally. So I really had a great upbringing of my family to tell me that it was always the person I was on the inside not the outside. So it never affected me that it said that you had to be a size 2. Which is I think horrible that there`s so many different articles out there that says be a size zero, be a size 2. It should be -- be whatever you want to be.
ROBINSON: Right.
HASSELHOFF: We`re all supposed to be different shapes and sizes. We`re not all supposed to look the same and feel the same. That`s why dieting doesn`t work for everybody because everybody`s body is different. They process it differently.
ROBINSON: Certainly, certainly, that`s a great comment. And actors like yourself are under so much scrutiny. And then they gain five, ten pounds, and then they`re being talked about like they`re fat when they`re not. They`re a size 4 or size 6.
HASSELHOFF: Yes. It`s just -- it`s horrible.
ROBINSON: All right. Hayley, thank you very much. I think this is probably going to change a lot --
HASSELFHOFF: Can I say hi to them?
ROBINSON: Hayley, did you want to say something else?
HASSELFHOFF: Can I say hi to Scotty and Tanisha. Hi , guys? I`m really excited to watch your show.
ROBINSON: Oh, that`s so cool. That`s so cool that she says that. We`re going to take a break and come back and Hayley will stay with us. So will you guys. Stay with us we`ll be right back.
NANCY GRACE, HLN ANCHOR: Hello, hello? Stay with us friends, we are speaking justice.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ROBINSON: And I`m back with my panel, continuing our conversation about teens and weight loss. Susan, we were talking during the break. I`m wondering how is it different approaching weight loss in teenagers? Because you know, they don`t control what comes into the house. That`s a big problem.
BORGMAN: Well, we get the parents on board with family workshops and with contact every week with the parents, but for teenagers, you really have to give them an opportunity to experience it for themselves and then take it and run with it. They have to make it their own. Wellspring`s total immersion. They get to see it for themselves. They feel the energy level. They feel better when they get there. So they take it.
ROBINSON: OK you said they get up at 6:30, then what do you do right after that, Tanisha?
MITCHELL: Activity.
ROBINSON: OK and what is the activity?
MITCHELL: Usually team sports, whatever. Whatever sports we`re playing at the time.
ROBINSON: OK, like?
MITCHELL: Like soccer, football.
ROBINSON: Really? Mm-hmm.
MITCHELL: Basketball.
ROBINSON: What were you good at?
MITCHELL: If I do say so myself, I`m a good goalie. I love being the goalie.
ROBINSON: You`re a good goalie. That`s great. I love it. Scott is like, yes, she`s a good goalie. And Scott, for you, what are some of the sports? Are they different for the guys?
BASSO: No, everyone plays the same exact sports. So my personal favorite was dodgeball.
ROBINSON: Really, why do you like dodgeball?
BASSO: Because I get to hit people.
ROBINSON: Scott! OK. And OK. So after that, it`s just a day of activity and just learning how to eat right?
BORGMAN: Well, it`s really about what Tanisha was talking about, which is learning about your thinking and how to make your thinking healthy. That`s a big input. Like healthy emotions, all of that are really an important component of the program.
ROBINSON: OK, and Hayley, do you have a reality show with your family coming out?
HASSELHOFF: I do, yes. Me, my dad and my sister. It follows me and my sister`s band, "Belveda," and my dad, touring again in Austria. And it just kind of shows our family in the right light.
ROBINSON: OK and emphasize in the right light, right?
HASSELHOFF: In the true light.
ROBINSON: In the true light. OK, Hayley, thank you so much for joining us. And thank you, guys. We`ll be watching "TOO FAT FOR 15." and also - that airs Mondays at 8:00 p.m. on the Style Network. And "HUGE" also airs Monday nights at 9:00 -.m. on ABC Family.
BORGMAN: Thank you.
ROBINSON: And thank you so much for tuning in, I`ll see you back here. Bye, bye.
END
