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Nancy Grace
Remains Found in Arizona Believed to Be Missing 2-Year-Old
Aired August 10, 2010 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight. Live, rural Arizona. A 2- year-old baby boy wearing nothing but a diaper, asleep in a tent with his mother, vanishes without a trace, Beaver Creek campground. The search for Sylar turns criminal. Cops administer polygraphs.
We discover adoptive mommy under police investigation for a dope pipe and drugs stashed in the missing boy`s backpack. FBI, sheriffs, forensic specialists combing over 200 tons of trash near the campground. The K-9 search mysteriously goes cold right in the middle of the campsite. It doesn`t make sense. How does a 2-year-old just vanish in the middle of the night, sleeping in the tent with Mommy?
Bombshell tonight. Just as we go to air, the search for 2-year-old Sylar ends. It is believed the body of little Sylar has just been discovered less than two miles from the campground, cause of death undetermined in these early hours. Was the baby boy buried and a sudden flash flood uncovers him?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Remains have just been found two miles outside the Beaver Creek campground in Arizona. Cops are investigating right now to determine if that body is the body of this child here, 2-year-old Sylar Newton.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... Sylar Newton...
911 OPERATOR: 911. Where`s the emergency?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... 2-year-old Sylar Newton...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We need to have a sheriff out here. We got a little boy missing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... 2-year-old child by the name of Sylar Newton.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The investigation has become criminal in nature.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... now a criminal investigation...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They`ve been looking nonstop. Nothing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... helicopters, ground crews, dogs, and divers...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... bloodhounds...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... all sorts of specialty teams with swift water...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... underwater cameras...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... searched over 200 tons of garbage.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... garbage for evidence of his body.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Bombshell tonight. Just as we go to air, in the last moments, we learn the search for 2-year-old Sylar comes to an end. It is now believed the body of little Sylar has just been discovered less than two miles from Beaver Creek campground.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Breaking news. They say the remains are believed to be that of Sylar Newton, but final confirmation is still pending.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... little Sylar Newton...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sylar Newton was last seen in his tent on a camping outing.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sylar went camping with a woman who identified herself as his custodial mother.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Doing horrible! My baby`s gone!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The other night I cried for a good two hours just wanting him back.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... was in the process of adopting the boy from his biological mother.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... long-time friends...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There`s just so many intricacies here.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... digging into that relationship...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... the bio mother...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... custodial mother...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The bio mother says she and the custodial mother had regular conversations.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The remains were located at the bottom of a wash.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is a criminal investigation.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are taking your calls live, but now live to Phoenix, Arizona. Christina Estes joining us, Newstalk 550 KFYI. Christina, what happened?
CHRISTINA ESTES, NEWSTALK 550 KFYI (via telephone): Well, we just heard this afternoon the remains found, as you mentioned, less than two miles from the campground where little Sylar Newton was last reported alive -- they were found in a wash, which is a shallow stream. Most of the year, that wash is empty, but when we get hard, fast rains like the area has seen since Sylar disappeared, the wash really fills up. And we`re told the remains may have been swept to the bottom of the wash by flash flooding.
GRACE: Everyone, we are showing you live aerial video of the search that`s going down right now. Moments before we go to air, we get the word that the body of little Sylar is believed to have been found at the foot of a wash.
To Christina Estes, joining us out of Phoenix, Arizona. Christina, explain that again what -- about the wash and exactly where we believe his body was found?
ESTES: Not far from the campground where he was last reported alive. A wash is -- kind of looks like a ditch. And most of the (INAUDIBLE) in the area is empty. But when we get these really hard, fast rains that are notorious for parts of Arizona in the summertime, the washes just fill up and that water flows through very quickly. And the remains were found at the bottom of the wash.
And right now, forensic experts, FBI, everybody involved working very hard to determine if the remains are that of 2-year-old Sylar. They think so, but they obviously need to make sure.
GRACE: And to Natisha Lance, our producer on the story. Natisha, was it raining? Was there a flash flood the night little Sylar went missing?
NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: No flash floods that we know of the night Sylar went missing. But over the weekend, Nancy, Friday and Saturday, there were very heavy rains that were in the area.
GRACE: And he went missing on what day and date, Natisha?
LANCE: He went missing the early morning hours of July 25th. He was last seen by other people at the campground at about 9:00 PM. And then it was 12:45 when the custodial mother said that they went to bed. And then about an hour later, she says she woke up and Sylar was nowhere to be seen.
GRACE: Now, you`re saying July 25th. That would have been a Sunday morning. Correct?
LANCE: Yes. That`s correct.
GRACE: Back to you, Christina Estes, Newstalk 550 KFYI. Christina, what can you tell me about the weather conditions on that Sunday?
ESTES: Well, that Sunday, it was hot and it felt pretty humid for folks here in Arizona. During some of the periods of the search, they did have some heavy rains overnight, and that certainly was one of the concerns with a little 2-year-old out there, they thought possibly wandering out all alone, was to find this kid as quickly as possible because bad enough to have a small, little child out in the heat, but to have that child out there when it`s raining really hard, with the mud and that rugged terrain, that really, really set them into gear and really had them working just around the clock. These were, you know, 400 people almost searching, spent more than 4,000 hours looking for little Sylar.
GRACE: Christina, what do we know about the condition of that wash during the search? Was it full of water or was it flat and dry?
ESTES: You know, I don`t know because I haven`t seen that exact area. But typically, it`s pretty dry for a lot of the year. But it looks like there was some flash flooding, meaning that we had several heavy rains, so that rain would have filled up that wash. And instead of looking like a dry ditch, it would have filled up with water. But those are typically fairly shallow. But the water can move very, very quickly. And so most people around here, adults anyway, know to stay away from those washes because the water, while it may be pretty shallow, can really move quickly.
GRACE: Joining us, Marc Klaas, president and founder of Klaas Kids Foundation. Marc Klaas, the possibilities are very disturbing.
Hold on, Marc. Before I come to you, let me go to Jean Casarez, now just joining us out of Atlanta, legal correspondent, "In Session." Jean, what`s going to matter is cause of death. That is what is going to matter because right now, the cause of death could be anything from asphyxiation to stumbling down this wash. But the water apparently was not there when he went missing from the tent that night. Now people are wondering, was he buried and then sudden rains uncovered his body?
JEAN CASAREZ, "IN SESSION": Right. That`s all going to be important. This is a designated crime scene. Investigators are there right now, getting every piece of evidence they can. Law enforcement has been pretty forthcoming in this case, though, and they said really early on that this was a criminal investigation. They did not believe this little boy wandered away from the campsite. They believed he was taken away. They didn`t know if he was dead or alive when he was taken away. The dogs were there at the campsite. They got a scent, but it led them nowhere.
GRACE: Joining us right now, C.W. Jensen -- we are taking your calls live -- retired Portland police captain. Captain, thank you for being with us. The police were very clear that they thought the child was taken from the tent. They were also very clear that they did not necessarily believe he was alive when he was taken from that tent. So this is not necessarily a case of him falling down the side of a slope and going into a wash. That is not necessarily the case.
C.W. JENSEN, RETIRED PORTLAND POLICE CAPTAIN: Right. Officers have said that this has been a criminal investigation. They didn`t believe the custodial mother`s story that he just wandered off. And as an investigator, you find a body, two miles, of a 2-year-old, two miles from where he was sleeping? He didn`t wander there by himself. So clearly, he was taken there by someone.
GRACE: Everyone, for those of you that are just joining us, moments before we go to air, we get the confirmation that a tiny body has been discovered there in Arizona, just a few miles from the Beaver Creek campground. This is where 2-year-old little Sylar was last seen alive by his soon-to-be adoptive mother around 12:45 AM. It was around 3:00 AM that she says she wakes up and discovers he`s gone. Someone else within the campsite, possibly the camp manager, calls 911.
Since that time, we have learned that would-be adoptive mom under investigation for stashing dope, drugs, in the little boy`s backpack. It doesn`t end there. Here is a shot of 36-year-old Christina Priem. What do we know about her response, Christina Estes?
ESTES: We have not been able to talk with her about the discovery of the remains this afternoon. But you mentioned that most recent case in January of this year, when a babysitter was watching little Sylar and some other children, and she went to Sylar`s backpack to grab a diaper to change him, and that`s when she found a glass pipe in there, thought it was used for drugs, but she called the cops. They came out and said, Hey, there`s burnt marijuana at the end of this pipe. And they went to visit Christina Priem where she works, and she said she didn`t know anything about it.
GRACE: Out to the lines. Debbie in Kentucky. Hi, Debbie.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. First of all, I don`t think this little guy had a chance. I don`t think anyone even loved him. God bless you and Marc Klaas for what you do. And my question is, do you think it would be possible that they buried that little boy underneath the tent and then they moved him later?
GRACE: I think that it is entirely possible, Debbie in Kentucky, because I`ve got to keep going back. I mean, if this is the child, God forbid it -- but if this is the child, I would like to believe it was a quick, painless and accidental death. But I know what police said, Debbie in Kentucky. They said that they don`t necessarily believe the child was alive when he was taken from that tent. So now the possibilities are endless as to the cause of death and how this 2-year-old little boy ended up two miles away at the foot of a wash.
We are taking your calls live as we wait for confirmation on the identification of this tiny body. You are seeing live aerial coverage right now we are bringing you from Arizona. The body of 2-year-old Sylar may have been discovered. We are waiting for identification. The search ends tonight.
Everyone, as we go to break, "Death on the D-List" hits the shelves today. You can go to CNN.com/nancygrace. My proceeds go to Wesley Glenn, a Methodist home providing a loving home for the mentally handicapped who need one.
And tonight, you get to pick the star that plays the role of heroine Haley Dean (ph). Go to CNN.com/nancygrace and vote. Win an autographed copy of "Death on the D-List" and come meet us all right here on the set.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: The search for 2-year-old Sylar ends. It is believed the body of little Sylar has just been discovered less than two miles from the campground.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... a tragic turn in the case of missing 2-year- old Sylar Newton.
GRACE: This is the custodial mother of the missing boy, Christina Priem.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... one of the last to see the boy alive...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My daughter has known her for five years. From the time that I`ve known her, she seemed nice enough. She offered to help out.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She failed miserably in terms of custodial obligations of protecting this child.
GRACE: The would-be adoptive mom has a previous arrest.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I want to know the contents of that tent. Were drugs involved?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We absolutely believe we will find out exactly what happened to Sylar.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There`s some details that we don`t want to get into at this point because of the investigation that`s ongoing. But we do feel it`s fairly safe to assume that he did not leave that campground of his own volition.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Out to the lines. Marcia in Arizona. Hi, Marcia.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi.
GRACE: Hi, dear. What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. My question -- I`ve been following this from the beginning.
GRACE: OK.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And the very first story that came out was that the little boy was in the tent with the two big 14-year-old boys. And then it changed to him being in the tent with the mother and the grandmother and the daughter. And I was wondering if maybe the first story wasn`t the true story, and they changed it to cover up. Maybe perhaps if he had been in the tent with the two 14-year-old boys, maybe they weren`t happy about him -- the 2-year-old boy being in the tent with them, or maybe the 14-year-old boys were just horsing around and being goofy and there was some kind of an accident that killed the 2-year-old boy. And then they changed the story to him being in the mother`s tent to cover up what might have happened even, you know, accidentally.
And you know, they went out and buried him and whatever, and then changed the story to him being in the tent. I mean, the character of the mother is questionable now with the marijuana pipe and what have you. I mean, who`s to say the character of the children isn`t questionable, too?
GRACE: Marcia in Arizona, you`re right, the story did change. Unleash the lawyers. Joining us Alex Sanchez, defense attorney, New York, Mickey Sherman, criminal defense attorney, author of "How Can You Defend Those People?" also joining us out of New York.
Mickey Sherman, I expect for stories to become embellished, for someone to add facts as it goes along. As you question them, more comes out. But to change facts? To me, that`s a problem. Response?
MICKEY SHERMAN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: You know, and I`ve got to believe that the police would have broken that down very quickly. That`s a radical change in story. What about bloodhounds? Have bloodhounds been (INAUDIBLE)
GRACE: Yes, they were used. Alex Sanchez, as a matter of fact, he brings up a good point. The scent of this little boy goes dead right there in the campground, which is extremely unusual. Now, here is the query. Was that a tracker for a live scent that goes dead right there in the campground? That would tell us a lot, Alex.
ALEX SANCHEZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, you know, the police say that, you know, they don`t think the child left on his own volition, and I can understand that. But for the police to then say they think the child was dead before he even left the tent, you know, I don`t know how they`re jumping to that conclusion. They`re also pointing fingers at the grandmother and mother in this case, so they seem...
GRACE: Put Sanchez up!
SANCHEZ: ... to be eliminating every other possibility there.
GRACE: Alex, of course, everybody knows the last person to have been with the victim immediately is suspect.
SANCHEZ: Yes, but they`re saying the child was dead in the tent...
GRACE: No, that`s not what they said!
SANCHEZ: ... even before they left? That`s one of the theories they seem to be propounding.
GRACE: They are following that theory, along with others.
Hold on. Let`s go to Pat Brown criminal profiler. What about it, Pat?
PAT BROWN, CRIMINAL PROFILER (via telephone): Well, I do think that the two most important things the police said was that it`s a criminal investigation and that they thought the child was dead. But they`re not looking for a child abductor because if they were looking at that, they would have no way to believe the child was dead, even if they thought it, you know, was highly possible. They would never jump to those -- you know, that conclusion and depress the family like that by saying, Oh, yes, we`re sure that abductor killed your child already.
So clearly, when they said that, they were pointing fingers right back at the camp. But what to me is real important is, which way did that wash go? Does it wash towards the camp? Does it wash away? What kind of intervening roads and things do we have with that wash, where somebody could have driven up and put the child at some other location?
GRACE: Well, I`m concerned about cause of death. Was the child drowned or was he asphyxiated, smothered or strangled before he was ever outside of that tent? That`s where police are headed tonight.
The search for 2-year-old Sylar has come to an end. We are waiting for 100 percent confirmation that this is the tiny body. It was found about two miles from the campground at the bottom of a wash.
Very quickly, to tonight`s "Case Alert." New details emerge in the mystery surrounding the disappearance of a beautiful woman, four months pregnant, Cape Cod. Investigators scouring a heavily wooded area, West Barnstable. Reports 23-year-old Trudie Hall was set to meet with a divorce attorney the day after she was reported missing. She never made it, Hall leaving home July 27th to a doctor`s appointment, her Toyota Avalon abandoned at a roadside rest stop. Blood evidence and casings reportedly found inside the Avalon. Investigators also searching a two-story house on the Cape, reportedly seizing an SUV, motorcycle, and more.
If you have information, please help. Massachusetts State Police, 508-790-0032.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Remains have just been found two miles outside the Beaver Creek campground in Arizona.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We got a little boy missing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He is presumably dead.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: For them to say he`s presumably dead leads me back to the fact that they`re looking at what happened right at the campground.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Cops say it is now a criminal investigation. Sylar`s custodial mom says she last saw him sleeping inside the tent they had shared. When she woke up in the middle of the night, he was not there.
911 OPERATOR: It`s a 2-year-old little boy?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And the bloodhounds constantly came back to that campsite area. They didn`t want to leave.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are quite confident that we are able to say that Sylar is not within our search area. Doesn`t mean that we`re not going to continue to expand out as we receive new clues and go and answer those clues and search those new areas.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are taking your calls live. Out to Shari in Pennsylvania. Hi, Shari.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. God bless your twins.
GRACE: Thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And we need to pray for our children out there. I want to cut to the chase here. One, I was not (ph) the biological mother for a precious baby girl from the time she was 4 months to 4 years old. If that baby took a nap, I was -- that baby was either in eyesight or earshot of me. These women who are calling themselves mothers have no motherly instincts, and I think they should be charged with negligence!
GRACE: You know, Shari, you`re bringing up an interesting point. Unleash the lawyers, Alex Sanchez, Mickey Sherman. Alex Sanchez, the reality is, if the mom, the custodial mom, didn`t have anything to do with the disappearance, she was still in charge of the baby when it wandered off.
SANCHEZ: Yes. And she may have engaged in some form of negligent conduct because if you`re in charge of an infant, you have to take proper steps to watch that child.
GRACE: What about it, Mickey?
SHERMAN: There`s a risk of injury to a minor. No question about it. But I think the primary goal is to find the killer.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re missing a little 2-year-old boy out here at Beaver Creek.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: A 2-year-old child at a camp site.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: Do you know how long he`s been missing?
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Vanishing in the middle of the night.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They don`t have any idea how long he`s been gone.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Can he wander off?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t have any idea what he`s wearing.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Can he be subject to abduction?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re all looking for him right now.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: No evidence or indication of where this child is. This is highly suspicious.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He got up during the night time and walked away I guess.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Very, very suspicious.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think somebody took him. I really think.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don`t know what to think anymore. Just wanting him back.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Still no sign of a 2-year-old who vanished from an Arizona campground just wearing a diaper.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The sheriff`s office believes that Sylar did not wander from the campground and he is presumably dead. The search -- the search effort is now in a recovery mode and the investigation has become criminal in nature.
It is a criminal investigation at this point because of a variety of interviews that we`ve done and the investigation that we have completed to this point in time.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Out to Christina Estes joining us from News Talk 550 KFYI.
Christina, how did they find him?
CHRISTINA ESTES, REPORTER, NEWSTALK 550 KFYI: The sheriff`s office got a call this afternoon from someone reporting the remains found in that wash, again, about two miles from the campground where Sylar was last reported alive.
The remains found in a wash which for people who aren`t familiar with Arizona is a shallow stream. Part of the year it`s dry and part of the year it`s filled with water from some of the rains we get.
And there have been some heavy rains in that area since Sylar disappeared. So that wash fills up. And we`re told the remains may have been swept to the bottom of the wash by some flash flooding.
GRACE: Jean Casarez, this is what you first reported on. Remember? The sheriff said that they interviewed family members and after those interviews they were confident the little boy did not leave the campsite on his own.
For those of you just joining us, we believe the body of little Sylar has been found. We are waiting for confirmation on that. In the moments before we go to air we learned the 2-year-old skeletonized body was found at the foot of a wash about two miles from the campsite where he disappeared from inside the tent with his own mother.
Remember that, Jean Casarez, what you reported?
JEAN CASAREZ, CORRESPONDENT, "IN SESSION": I definitely remember that. And something else that I remember, you know, the little boy last seen 12:30 in the morning on July 25th and then about 1:45, 2:00, a 911 call was originally made not by members of the family but by the 14-year- old friend of the brother of the custodial mother`s. He made the original 911 call.
GRACE: We are taking your calls live. Out to Dr. Titus Duncan, general surgeon, Atlanta Medical Center.
Dr. Duncan, again, thank you for being with us. Dr. Duncan, it`s all going to boil down to the cause of death, but -- now the child went missing July 25. It hasn`t even been a month yet.
Is it possible from the reports that we are getting -- our sources are saying -- that the little body is skeletonized already?
DR. TITUS DUNCAN, M.D., GENERAL SURGERY, ATLANTA MEDICAL CENTER: That`s a little quick but again it depends on the environment. Once you`re in a dry environment --
GRACE: It`s hot.
DUNCAN: Yes. Hot and it`s actually in a dry environment and usually exposed to animals and insects and so the decomposition is going to occur much more rapidly. If the body was found in water it would be preserved a little bit longer. Actually buried down deep within the ground.
It even preserved even further but actually being exposed to the environment, it`s going to be decomposed pretty quickly. So skeletal remains at this particular point in time is not all that unlikely.
GRACE: Man, that`s hard to take in. He`s only been missing for less than a month and the problem is with that, of course, Doctor, is that if the child`s remains are completely skeletonized, if there was an asphyxiation or a strangulation, unless the hyoidal bone was somehow damaged, we`re not going to be able to tell cause of death, Doctor.
DUNCAN: Not at all. Not -- not with those two causes, with strangulation or asphyxiation. If there was some sort of blunt trauma, something -- some sort of injury to the skull, you might be able to find something. But with just asphyxiation, and if you just have skeletal remains, no, you`re not going to be able to determine that.
GRACE: No. Hold on. Dr. Duncan, there`s one thing that I know. The police were on to something before this body was found. Remember? They were on to something before the body was found but the whole problem goes back further than that.
To Dr. Leslie Austin, psychotherapist joining us out of Manhattan.
Dr. Austin. How is it, Dr. Leslie? This was not a formal adoption. No papers have been filed at the courthouse. Nothing. How do you just hand your baby over --
DR. LESLIE AUSTIN, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: Well --
GRACE: How do you just hand it over to a lady that you know already has had problems with the law?
AUSTIN: Well, his birth mother Charity apparently had had four children in six years and gave them all away so she doesn`t have exactly a good track record as a mother. And in Arizona apparently private adoptions don`t have to be documented.
So she could have just handed him over and then the custodial mother might have wanted to legalize it and make him her child.
GRACE: Back to Pat Brown, criminal profiler. No matter how you look at it, Pat, it`s not good. It`s just not good. No matter which way you turn it.
PAT BROWN, CRIMINAL PROFILER, AUTHOR OF "THE PROFILER: MY LIFE HUNTING SERIAL KILLER AND PSYCHOPATHS": Well, I mean, I`m certainly looking back at the custodial family`s involvement but the problem we`re going to have now, like you say, is how they`re going to prove exactly how the child died.
And even if they do, let`s say it`s blunt trauma. Let`s say it`s strangulation, asphyxiation, whatever. Let`s say they come up with something. Really, who`s going to prove who did it at this point?
GRACE: OK.
BROWN: And they`re really going to have to go back to, can they get the family to give up stories and finally confess to something?
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Look. With all those people there --
BROWN: There is a car perhaps driving to another location and then --
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: With all those people there, Pat Brown, somebody is going to talk on behalf of this little boy.
Now we are hooked up to Marc Klaas, president and founder of KlaasKids Foundation. He`s been on this case from the very, very beginning.
Marc Klaas, you know the developments. In the last hour we have learned that we are waiting on a positive confirmation on the identification of a tiny skeleton found in the bottom of a wash there in Arizona less than two miles from the campground itself.
What do you make of it, Marc?
MARC KLAAS, PRESIDENT AND FOUNDER, KLAASKIDS FOUNDATION: Well, first, I`d like to offer my condolence to those who knew and loved Sylar. They must be going through an incredibly difficult time right now.
I think this really points to the difficulty that search-and-rescue teams have in finding a tiny body in a large world. Oftentimes they have to crisscross the grids numerous times and still they can miss things. And I think that that`s what happened in this case.
Now you were just speaking about strangling a child and not leaving any evidence behind. I can tell you that in Polly`s case they found the ligature and it was where her neck would have been.
GRACE: Joining us, Marc Klaas, president and founder of KlaasKids Foundation. When we come back we are taking your calls live and we are going to be joined by retired Portland police captain C.W. Jensen.
Everybody, as I told you, my brand new book "Death on the D-List" hits the shelves today. You can order at CNN.com/NancyGrace. My proceeds is going to Wesley Glenn Methodist home for the mentally handicapped who need a loving home.
And tonight, which star should play the role of Hailey Dean? Go to CNN.com/NancyGrace and vote. Win an autographed copy of "Death on the D- List" and come meet us all right here on the set.
Winners tonight, South Dakota friend Diane. Her vote? Jody Foster.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: I wrote the prologue to "Death on the D-List" before I finished "Eleventh Victim." It was an idea I had and I know this is crazy, but a lot of the ideas I have for "Death on the D-List" came to me in my sleep.
The title for "Death on the D-List" -- I was racking my mind for just the right title -- came to me one night in the complete dark. And I got it, "Death on the d-List." And that was it.
There are carryover characters to be looking for from "Eleventh Victim" that pop up again in "Death on the D-List." First of all of course, Hailey Dean herself. Her doorman in New York, Ricky.
Also Lieutenant Caulker, who stalked Hailey Dean and wrongfully arrested her for the murder of two of her patients in "Eleventh Victim", reappears in a very dynamic manner.
And, of course, what book would be complete without a drunk photographer? Frank LaGrange Haddon III reappears in "Death on the D-List" in a big way.
There`s a talk show in the book. It`s a daytime talk show. And the star of the talk show is named Harry Dodd. And he is actually modeled after Fred Willard`s role in "For Your Consideration."
Hailey Dean, the star of "Death on the D-List", is not autobiographical. She is a much better person and a much braver person than I could ever be.
I always wanted to name a little girl Hailey after Haleigh Cummings. I never thought I could have a little girl. So instead I became this wonderful brave person that grew into Hailey Dean.
I`m thinking back to all those years that I practiced law and prosecuted violent felonies. A lot of those characters that I met in that 10-year parade in the courthouse come to life on the pages of this book.
For a summer read, I would pick a book that I stayed up until about 2:00 or 3:00 in the morning so I could read it. So I could find out what happened at the end. To me that`s a great summer read.
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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Sylar Newton.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: 911. Where`s the emergency?
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Remains have just been found two miles outside the Beaver Creek campground in Arizona.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Child by the name of Sylar Newton.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: He is presumed dead.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The search effort is now in a recovery mode. And the investigation has become criminal in nature.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Now a criminal investigation.
GRACE: Not a good sign.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: An extensive search effort.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: They`ve been looking nonstop. Nothing.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Helicopters, ground crews, dogs, and divers.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Bloodhounds.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Officers investigating right now to determine if that body is the body of this child here, 2-year-old Sylar Newton.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s heart breaking. Absolutely heart breaking. And I received an e-mail from one of my incident command leaders who said, you know, we fell in love with Sylar even though we never met him.
And that`s really how it goes. I have four kids of my own at home. And you go home and you just hug your kids for a while. When you go out there and you look at these flyers, you see your own children. Nobody wanted to stop. And that`s why we`re continuing.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are taking your calls live. For those that are just joining us, as we went to air tonight we learned that a tiny body has been found there in Arizona less than two miles from the Beaver Creek campgrounds.
Our reports are that the body is already skeletonized but it is believed to be the body of little 2-year-old Sylar.
We are taking your calls. Out to Sherry in Pennsylvania. Hi, Sherry.
TAMMY, CALLER FROM GEORGIA: Sherry on this thing.
GRACE: Oh, Tammy. Thank you. What`s your question, dear?
TAMMY: What I want to know is, you`ve got two children that disappeared within --
GRACE: Tammy, are you still with me?
TAMMY: Yes. I`m sorry. You`ve got two children that disappeared in like a 10-mile or 12-mile radius. Both were found face down in the mud. Could there be a perpetrator that has done this because they lost both children`s footprints for a little while?
GRACE: You know, you`re right about that, Tammy. And, also -- to Pat Brown, our criminal profiler joining us tonight out of D.C. -- both children looked very similar, Sylar and Emmett, both 2-year-old little boys, both wearing diapers, no shoes, when they went missing.
What about it, Pat Brown?
BROWN: Well, really, I don`t think they`re connected. It`s just one of those situations where it`s like if you flip a coin sometimes it going to come up tails a whole bunch of times.
I think it was actually more like 40 miles between the two of them. We have definitely two different stories from two different custodial families. Neither one of them really has said that -- you know, there`s really no evidence in either one that has --
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: I don`t know, Pat Brown. You may be right.
BROWN: -- went into the home and took those children away.
GRACE: You may be right.
BROWN: So I`m not leaning toward that at all.
GRACE: But I don`t believe that there is any coincidence in criminal law. The only way that that possibility could be completely removed from the table is that if we learned they both are absolutely dead from accidental reasons. That`s the only way I -- it`s just so much of a coincidence.
Out to you, Marla in West Virginia. Hi, Marla.
MARLA, CALLER FROM WEST VIRGINIA: Hi, Nancy. How are you?
GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s your question?
MARLA: Listen. I was just wondering, has the mother, grandmother, and the older boys, have they had a polygraph? And if so, do we know the results? Because it seemed like early on the police were very confident the baby Sylar was dead, even watching the detective or the policeman talk, he was so upset when he did the interviews with the family members. He just seemed very confident the baby Sylar was dead.
GRACE: Everyone, you are seeing live aerial footage of the location where we believe baby Sylar`s body has just been found as we go to air. We are waiting to hear details and a positive identification.
If the little tiny baby skeleton is -- body is in fact skeletonized it`s going to be a while before we get that I.D.
To Jean Casarez, you have the answer to that question. She`s right. They seemed so sure right at the outset.
CASAREZ: Marla is exactly right, yes. Lie detector tests were given to the custodial mother and her mother. No, we don`t know the results. Yes, the FBI is involved. And yes, law enforcement must know a lot of information to have made so many conclusions even before today when the remains of this little boy were found.
GRACE: To C.W. Jensen, retired Portland police captain, joining us out of Portland.
Captain, do you believe that if they had passed the polygraph -- the polygraphs we would have heard about it?
C.W. JENSEN, RETIRED PORTLAND POLICE CAPTAIN: No, I think they`re keeping the details of this quite quiet. What they are saying is pretty strong, that they thought he was not alive when he left the campground.
What we have to remember is they have this intensive, intensive search and at the same time they were interviewing people -- just as intensively and getting stories and listening to what everybody said and asking things and other campers and people around, so, clearly, they got information that pointed to this child being dead when he was taken away.
GRACE: Captain Jensen, I want to hear your theory. I think I`ve got Captain Jensen still with me. Are you there, Captain?
JENSEN: Sorry. You know it`s interesting. It`s a very -- this poor kid got dealt a really bad hand in life. Two dysfunctional families tossing him back and forth. So it would be my feeling that those -- that dysfunction of those families, that someone in there is involved in this and I think that`s why they`re so confident that they know what happened to him.
And I think now, and clearly, this body is of the little boy. I think that at this point now we will probably see an arrest fairly quickly.
GRACE: Hey, look. Sanchez and Sherman -- put them up. You know when the FBI confiscates your cell phone, you got a problem, Sherman.
MICKEY SHERMAN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY, AUTHOR OF "HOW CAN YOU DEFEND THOSE PEOPLE?": I was going to ask about that. Text messages, when were they made, to whom, how soon after the child was missing, did they make or receive phone calls? They`ll have that evidence very quickly.
GRACE: What about it, Sanchez? When you look out your kitchen window and you see the feds picking through your trash or they come confiscate your cell phone, you got a problem.
ALEX SANCHEZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: That`s not a good sign.
GRACE: No.
SANCHEZ: And I think at this point it`s this woman`s interests to go get herself an attorney and to not make any more statements and not make any more statements to the police before consulting with an attorney. Otherwise, she may end up making a case against herself which at the present time may not exist.
GRACE: To Kim in Indiana, hi, Kim, what`s your question?
KIM, CALLER FROM INDIANA: Hi. My question is about the biological family members and biological grandmother because on one other talk show that I heard this biological grandmother talking, she acted like she didn`t care whether the kid was missing or alive or whatever.
But why don`t they step up more and intervene before they`re tossed around from friend to friend or family to family and not knowing what is going on with the kid?
GRACE: To Dr. Leslie Austin, do you think that the grandmother was just being defensive?
AUSTIN: I didn`t see the clip. I don`t know. But clearly this is a family who didn`t take care of the little boy and gave him away. So for them to be upset now is very dicey. I don`t know what their involvement was.
GRACE: You`re right. And they did hand the baby over --
AUSTIN: Yes.
GRACE: -- on a silver platter.
Everybody, quick break. We`re taking your calls live, but a very happy birthday to New York friend of the show, mother of three, and now, believe it or not, a grandmother. Beautiful Anita Torres. Just as beautiful on the inside as the outside.
Happy birthday, Anita.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Remains found less than two miles from the campground where little Sylar Newton was last reported alive.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: When they put bloodhounds out on the scene from that - from the Beaver Creek area where he went missing, they wanted to stay in that particular area which led them to believe that possibly the body was close by.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are taking your calls live. Out to Terri, West Virginia. Hi, Terri.
TERRI, CALLER FROM WEST VIRGINIA: Hi. I have a question and a comment.
GRACE: OK.
TERRI: My comment is if that were my child, I would have been the first one to call 911, not another camper.
GRACE: Tell it.
TERRI: And the question is they searched farther than two miles. Why did they not find him before this?
GRACE: That`s something I don`t understand. Marc Klaas, you`ve been involved in so many searches for so many children. What do you think?
KLAAS: Well, we, in fact, have our own expert search and rescue team. And like I said before, it`s a big, big world and it`s a small, small body. And oftentimes in very rugged terrain, as this is, they have to go over the search grids time and time again. Crisscross them and crisscross them and crisscross them and they still might not find the body.
If you even take it out a one-mile radius, Nancy, you`re dealing with an enormous amount of area. And this is not even area. There`s gullies, there`s mesas, there`s brush. It`s very difficult. So I`m not surprised, quite frankly.
GRACE: Everyone, the tip line, 928-771-3260. If you have any information on the disappearance and the death of little Sylar, please call.
Let`s stop and remember Marine Private 1st Class Robert Guy, 25, Willards, Maryland, killed Iraq. Awarded the Purple Heart. Inspired by his uncle who served Vietnam.
Remembered for a big heart, loved jokes, shooting pool, video games. Dreamed of a career in the military. Leaves behind parents Ann and James Sr., brother James Jr.
Robert Guy, American hero.
Thanks to our guests, but especially to you for being with us and inviting all of us into your homes.
And a special good night from Florida and New York friends of the show, Joe and Michael.
Now there`s a handsome bunch.
Everyone, I`ll see you tomorrow night. 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.
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