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Rick's List
Dr. Laura's Racial Rant; Same-Sex Marriage Ban Lifted
Aired August 12, 2010 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
RICK SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR: Dr. Laura Schlessinger has used the "N" word 11 times in 5 minutes. Going off on what appears to be a racist rant, according to many who've listened to it, with a woman who had called in how to get advice on how to get along with her husband who's have a different race. Dr. Laura has now issued an apology. We're going to let you hear this. We'll be covering it for you. That's just some of what we're going to have for you tonight on RICK'S LIST.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ (voice-over): Here's what is making the list in primetime.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I call upon all of to us do our jobs for the sake of America.
SANCHEZ: Alan Grayson vs. Robert Gibbs. Grayson on Gibbs. If he wanted right-wing talking points, he'd put on Fox News. He says Gibbs should be fired. What else does he say? Hear it live.
Why Sarah Palin needs defending, and I will defend her.
An exclusive interview with a passenger who details exactly what this flight attendant actually did.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Person of interest was taken into custody.
SANCHEZ: Police say this man is a serial killer who may have targeted black men. Why is he going to Israel? And so what if he's being investigated? It's time to shake a leg. Go, Charlie! Go, Charlie!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ (on-camera): Hey, everybody. I'm Rick Sanchez. I want to take you through this as carefully and as fairly as I possibly can because it involves a very famous person, most would consider them certainly a national celebrity. We're talking about a radio personality. In fact, as I was getting ready to do this show tonight, it came across as a bit of a bombshell with everyone reacting to it on the internet.
It seems to be a tirade of sorts of what some are describing as either bigotry or insensitivity. Aimed at an African-American caller. All of it coming from one of America's best-known radio personalities. I told you just a little while ago, this is about Dr. Laura Schlessinger. I should tell you that she has already apologized for her comments made on her nationally syndicated program Tuesday. We're just now starting to get the tapes together, and we should be able to get some folks to talk to on this.
So, let me just take you through some of the information as it's come across so far. If you could help me over here, Mark, let's -- we'll take you through the beginning of this transcript that we've been able to pull from dr. Laura's program. The caller says I'm having an issue with my husband where I'm starting to grow resentful. I'm black, he's white. We've been around some of his friends and family members, and the woman goes to say that her husband ignores the comments when other friends come over to the house and then make comments, and she's feeling uncomfortable.
She's asking advice on what to do. Dr. Laura, as you can see down here, goes on to tell the woman that perhaps she's just too sensitive. She says, well, give me an example of a racist comment, because sometimes, people are just hypersensitive. So, tell me what's -- give me two good examples of racist comments. After that, it turns into an argument where Dr. Laura starts saying that it's OK to use the "N" word because many quote "black guys."
You want me to put this down? Is this better if I put this down for you, Mark? Is that better? Black guys use it all the time. Turn on HBO. Listen to a black comic, and all you hear is and she says it, one, two, three times. In fact, as we go through there, you see that dr. Laura continues in part of this. She tries to make the point to the woman that there's no one who can really be racist now, because we have a black president.
She talks about President Obama. I'm giving you the gist of exactly what she says. She comes back to use the "N" word again here. She uses it here again, a fifth, a sixth, a seventh time. When the woman says -- starts arguing with her and says I can't believe that I called you simply so that you could give me some advice about my situation and instead I've listened to you use the "N" word repeatedly on the air and you shouldn't be using it.
The woman now seems to be very upset at Dr. Laura for what she says. Dr. Laura comes back and says, all right, thank you very much, thank you very much, can't have this argument. You know what? If you're that hypersensitive about color and don't have a sense of humor, then don't marry out of your race. She tells the woman don't marry out of your race implying that the woman is simply too sensitive in this case. And then she goes on to continue to use the word.
She comes back after a commercial, continues the conversation with the woman, hangs up on the woman, somewhat -- with somewhat of disgust. I think both women at that point were angry at each other. Then Dr. Laura comes back and continues talking about the case and uses the "N" word again, saying how it's often used on HBO, and she says watching HBO, listening to black comics, all you hear is and then she comes back and says "N" number eight, nine, ten, and number 11.
We counted 11 times that she went on to talk about this. And finally, here is the comments that she made that a lot of people are now talking about on the internet where Dr. Laura says, I really thought that once we had a black president, the attempt to demonize whites hating blacks would stop. But it seems to have grown, and I don't get it. At times, it was a political tirade. At times it was sounded racist. Let me see if I can find now -- because this came to us just moments ago, but she did have an apology that was sent to us moments ago.
OK. Here we go. Thank you, Angie (ph). This is Dr. Laura, moments ago, she has issued this apology, quote, "yesterday morning, I messed up. I used the "N" word on air, and I regretted it as soon as the call was over. While it was in the context of making a point about the unfortunate use of that term by others who deem it unacceptable or funny, it is a word that is hateful, hurtful, and I should not have used it even to prove a point. After the call, I was terribly upset about it. And after that hour of the program concluded, pulled myself off the air for the rest of the show." Stop quote.
Now, I should tell you that there's more to this as we move forward. There's more to the apology, by the way. We only read you a little part of it. I have it here, and I'll be sharing more of that with you. We're going to be playing the tape. We're going to let you listen to what Dr. Laura said, so it's in context, you hear the woman arguing with her, you hear Dr. Laura saying things to the woman. It gets -- it becomes quite contentious at times.
Joining me now is Jane Velez-Mitchel. Jane, you and I were going to be talking about something else, but now that you're here, you know, this is the kind of story that suddenly you look at the internet and you check things like Twitter and Google, and you everyone is either talking or tweeting. Social media is obviously going crazy with this. First of all, have you had a chance to hear this exchange between Dr. Laura and this woman who called in and asking for advice about her relationship with her husband?
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST, ISSUES WITH JANE-VELEZ-MITCHELL: No, but is it doesn't surprise me, Rick, whatsoever. This woman, Dr. Laura, has a history of being hateful to various groups, particularly gays. If I remember when I worked at a studio in Los Angeles, driving through the protests every morning, because people wanted her off the air and that was years ago. So, she got a track record, and when you are filled with hate, it will bleed over from one subject to another.
It's not always going to be contained to the particular group you're attacking at that moment, and I think this woman has psychological problems. You know they say, with medicine, the first thing, do no harm. First, do no harm. Maybe she should realize that with the position of power that she has, she should first do no harm, and what she said was absolutely just uncalled for, and she needs to go away.
She says I realized I made a big mistake. Yes, my dear, you did. And you need to say goodbye and go and get therapy yourself and figure out why you are so angry. SANCHEZ: What do you make -- you know, there are people sometimes who will do this that, you know, they make the point and they're right, by the way, that if you do turn on certain channels and you see certain black comedians, some Hispanic comedians, there's a lot of self-deprecation. You know, you hear black comedians will use the "N" word, for example, and then there are people who make the argument. If they're using the "N" when referring to themselves, then why shouldn't I be able to use the "N" word when referring to them? What do you make of that?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I totally agree with that. And if she limited herself to that comment, I would say -- I'd applaud that. Yes, as a Latina, I feel that it's terrible when other people who are Latino say things that are derogatory towards Latinos, because it opens the door for everybody else to join in. And I think many African-Americans feel the same way. If she had limited herself to that specific comment, it think she would have been well within her bounds.
But she used the "N" word. She went on to talk about, well, you know, don't marry outside your race. Here's the thing. The truth will come out. When you're on television, you know this, Rick, we're both on television. If you have a feeling bubbling up inside you, an ugly feeling, we're on the air talking so much, it will eventually spill out.
It's like in vino veritas, in wine, there is truth, in television, there is truth. If you're on the TV all the time, your real feelings will ultimately, or the radio, they'll spill out. And this is what happened.
SANCHEZ: We also -- you know what, we want to make sure we give her the benefit of the doubt as well, and I just want to be on the record as saying that as we report this story, we are inviting Dr. Laura to come on. We're reaching out to her people right now. We're trying to see if we can make contact with her. We want her to be able to explain this. You know, we take her at her word that she feels -- she said even when she was finished with the show, she felt horrible and took herself off the air.
And we want to give her a chance to come on. You know, she's been on CNN many times in the past, and we want her to come on and explain exactly what it is that she's feeling, and maybe, she can put this in the proper context for us. By the way, a little bit more of her apology now as we get ready to go to the tape. It's up there, Mark, if we can go ahead. And I always -- I'll just go to this from the very top now. This is Dr. Laura. We're putting a blog up so you can see it.
She says, "I always tell my listeners when I mess up. They need to follow the four "Rs," take responsibility, have true remorse, try to repair it, don't repeat it. Yesterday, I messed up. I used the "N" word on the air, and I regret it. And as soon as the call was over while it was in the context of making the point about the unfortunate use of that term by others who deem it unacceptable or funny, it is a word that is hateful, hurtful, and I should not have used it, even to prove a point." And then she goes on to say that "after the call, I was terribly upset about it. After the hour of the program concluded, pulled myself off for the rest of the show. Today, at the very top of my program, I will apologize to listeners." Let's do this. Let's do this.
Let's take a quick break right now. We thought that we would be able to have the tape. We apologize. We don't have it just yet. It happened just as we're getting ready to go on the air. So, we're going to turn this around for you here in just a little bit. We're going to take a quick break. Hopefully, when we come back in just a couple of minutes, we'll have the tape.
We'll play it for you, and we'll get some perspective, and hopefully, fingers crossed, we'll be able to hear from either Dr. Laura or one of her representatives to get reaction from them as well to put this in context.
This is RICK'S LIST. I'm Rick Sanchez. We're going to be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Hey, welcome back. I'm Rick Sanchez. This is RICK'S LIST. We got a lot of stuff going on. It's one of those news casts when you get information on a story about 15, 20 minutes before you go on the air and you're hustling to make sure you can verify call the right amount of people before you go on the air. So, we've been hustling to get this Dr. Laura's story on the air for you. And as we do, we'll be sharing it with you.
We've already gotten a lot of folks who follow us, folks who are relevant to the stories that we cover who are tweeting us now and sharing their information. Here's one now. BaratundeThurston has tweeted us just a moment ago. To me, actually, he says, Rick Sanchez, I didn't know black people called in to Dr. Laura, but after her "N" word rant, I suspect she'll be hearing from many more."
That's just the tip of the iceberg, folks, on twitter, and on MySpace, Facebook, social media all the way around, a lot of people are commenting on this tonight because, you know, obviously, Dr. Laura has a lot of fans, and she is very popular and extremely noteworthy. She, once again, is apologizing tonight, and we're going to have that sound for you in just a little bit. Johnny Downstairs is working to put it together for us as we speak.
It's not quite time for wedding invitations to go out, but thousands of same-sex couples in California could legally tie the knot in California as soon as Wednesday. Unless, of course, an appeals court suddenly intervenes. That's because the judge who already ruled that state's Proposition 8 was unconstitutional just lifted the stay on his own order.
Today, couples were lined up at San Francisco City Hall, hoping that this ban would be lifted immediately so that they could marry right away. But despite the delay, couples are celebrating tonight. They're celebrating up to a point, actually. Watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PAUL KATAMI, PROPOSITION 8 LAWSUIT PLAINTIFF: We are very happy that the judicial system is working and that the truth is representing the law now, and the law is protecting us. So, we're on an emotional high, and we hope to keep riding that high all the way through to the end when we don't have to worry about finality, when we can just make sure that ever American is treated equally.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: So, they're happy as long as this latest ruling is not blocked and so is Evan Wolfson. He's the founder of Freedom to Marry. Evan you there, you ready to go?
EVAN WOLFSON, FREEDOM TO MARRY: Yes, I am.
SANCHEZ: I want you to watch something, all right? A little while ago, I had a chance to do an interview with someone. I don't know if you're familiar with Matthew Staver. Matthew Stave is with liberty council. Now, he's convinced that guys and lesbians, and he respectfully makes this point during our interview that gays and lesbians are not capable of being parents the way male and female parents can be.
He also thinks this judge has made a huge decision, and he thinks it's completely irresponsible to give gays and lesbians the right to marry. These are his points. Let's you and I watch this interview, and then I want to get your reaction on the other side. You cool with that?
WOLFSON: OK.
SANCHEZ: Here we go.
WOLFSON: That sounds good.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MATTHEW STAVER, FOR. & CHMN. LIBERTY COUNCIL: Creation, obviously, only occurs between a man and a woman, whether artificially or naturally. And also, there's a lot of research talking about the importance of fathers and mothers to the well-being of children. There is rationality. There is legitimate reason why marriage between a man and woman is valid and why the people of California and the rest of the people in the country would express it as the ideal human relationship.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Well, that's not exactly what I wanted you to hear. I thought we're going to see more of that interview, but he did make two points in those 10, 15 seconds. What do you make when someone says something akin to that? That look, bottom line is a man and a woman were meant to be parents, and two women or who two men should not be allowed to bring up children. Which was a major part of his point?
WOLFSON: Well, first of all, let's remember what just happened over the last several months. The anti-gay forces, including Mr. Staver, had a chance to come into court, to put on evidence, to call expert witnesses, to produce whatever body of argument they have to justify these talking points. And it turned out in the clear, cool, light of a courtroom, that they simply don't have any evidence to back it up. And the reason they don't have any evidence to back it up is that the truth is exactly the opposite of what they're saying. The truth is that gay people, many of us, are raising children.
Our children are doing well, and it's not just gay people and our kids who are reporting that, it's the American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Psychological Association, the American Psychiatric Association, and in fact, every leading child welfare organization, every professional organization in this country that consists of literally millions of people.
SANCHEZ: I get it, I get it.
WOLFSON: I've said that.
SANCHEZ: I know, and I've read many of those reports, and you're astute to bring those to our attention, but what do you say to people who say, look, I just grew up differently. I'm just really uncomfortable with this idea. I've always felt like marriage is something that should be between a man and a woman. It's part of our tradition. It's part of my faith. It's what's written in my bible, and I'm just really uncomfortable with this? What do you say to people who say that to you?
WOLFSON: Right. The first thing I would say, I do understand that many good people are wrestling with this and trying to figure out how to get over their discomfort or their unfamiliarity or the concerns they might have, and what I encourage people to do is to talk to gay people, to look at the same kind of stories and evidence that this judge saw in the courtroom and to go on the same journey that people like Bill Clinton and Laura Bush, who used to oppose the freedom to marry but now support it have gone on because they've open their heart and mind to the truth instead of clinging to fears and stereotypes that some of the groups, like Mr. Staver's run around trying to imprint on people.
SANCHEZ: Evan Wolfson, you've been a good guest. Many thanks for taking time out to talk to us tonight to make sure that we have both sides represented on this story. We appreciate it.
WOLFSON: Thank you.
SANCHEZ: You know, it's no secret that President Obama is getting a lot of heat lately from his own party, but there's one Democrat in particular who's really been calling him out lately and also one Democrat that's been getting a lot of heat. That's the president's spokesperson. In fact, one Democrat, Alan Grayson of South Florida, this congressman has gone as far as to call him bozo. Alan Grayson is going to join me here in a little bit to talk about Robert Gibbs, and also, before I say anything else, let me let you know that we are working diligently to turn that sound around. We want you to be able to hear it for yourself, not my interpretation, not anyone else's interpretation, of what Dr. Laura Schlessinger said on her radio show yesterday, that she's apologized for tonight. We should have that ready to go real soon. Hang tight, and we'll have that for you. Stay right there. You're watching RICK'S LIST," and yes, I'm reading all of your tweets as they come in during the commercial.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: OK. We got the Laura Schlessinger sound ready to go and welcome back. This is RICK'S LIST, and I'm Rick Sanchez. Tonight, as we were getting ready to do this program, my producers came across this audiotape, and we saw it as a bit of a bombshell once we all started listening to it. We asked ourselves a question, I mean, is it news worthy? Most certainly, it is, because of who she is.
It seems to be a tirade of pseudo bigotry/political insensitivity, aimed at an African-American caller who's asking for advice when she reached out to Dr. Laura Schlessinger. The woman is married. The woman is black, but she's married to a white man, and she's asking Dr. Laura Schlessinger, help me deal with this.
When my husband's friends come over to the house, sometimes they say things that almost sound to me like they're saying it just because I'm black like to say about what blacks do or blacks don't do, and she's are looking for Dr. Laura Schlessinger to give her a way of a coping mechanism, a way of dealing with this, if you would. And this is how Dr. Laura Schlessinger responds.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How about the "N" word? The "N" word's been thrown around.
DR. LAURA SCHLESSINGER, RADIO HOST: Black guys use it all the time. Turn on HBO, listen to a black comment, and all you hear is (EXPLETIVE DELETED). I don't get it. If anybody without enough melanin (ph) says it is a horrible thing, but when black people say it, it's affectionate. It's very confusing. Don't hang up. I want to talk to you some more. Don't go away. I'm Dr. Laura Schlesinger. I'll be right back.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: We promised we'd let you hear more than that. Angie, I hope we got more, right? That's all we got right now? OK. OK. Well, I apologize for telling you we would make sure we'd put this in context and then give you something that was completely out of context, but now, I'll try and put it in context for you. That particular sound was way into the conversation. By then, the two women had already discussed the husband and the problems in the house and why it was that she wasn't able to get along, and it was Dr. Schlessinger who had said to her that it's not really of -- suggested it's not really a problem of racism, the problem is she's just too sensitive, and then she goes on to say, allude or suggest that black people are just too sensitive in general, and then she brings in the president of the United States and the fact that he's black.
And then she goes on to make her fourth point, which is that people who listen to HBO, she points out HBO many times, and black comedians would realize that they're always using the black word. So, that's the context of how the conversation went along and that's just according to my recollection.
Here's one of the bloggers that's tweeting about this right now. Here we go. Go to the board, if you could there, Mark. Thanks. After listening to Dr. Laura clip twice, the "N" word is literally the least offensive thing about it. That's blogger elonjames. The least offensive thing about it. You really got to listen to it for yourself to know what he's making references to. What it is that he's talking about.
So, we'll try and get it so that you can listen to it. This is what Dr. Laura wrote the next morning, all right? Quote, "yesterday, I messed up. I used the "N" word on the air, and I regretted it as soon as the call was made -- as soon as the call was over. While it was in context of making a point about the unfortunate use of what term by others who deem it unacceptable or funny, it is a word that is hateful, hurtful, and I should not have used it even to prove a point."
"After the call, I was terribly upset about it, and after that hour of the program concluded, pulled myself off the air for the rest of the show," stop quote. Jane Velez-Mitchell joining us once again. I really -- I hope that just in a little bit here, we're able to play the conversation in context because it's important in this business that we give Dr. Laura in this case a chance to be heard and how she said it, not how Rick Sanchez interprets it, not how Jane Velez- Mitchell interprets it, but actually how the conversation went on.
And this is what I think a lot of these bloggers are referring to that she immediately turned the conversation into accusing the woman of simply being too sensitive for not being able to deal with what the woman was referring to was either a racism or being uncomfortable. Here's a little longer portion. Let me let you hear this, Jane, and then you and I will figure it up on this. You're ready to go? Here we go.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SCHLESSINGER: Yes, I think you have too much sensitivity.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So, basically (EXPLETIVE DELETED)
SCHLESSINGER: And not enough sense of humor. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's OK to say that word?
SCHLESSINGER: It depends how it's said.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is it OK to say that word? Is it ever OK to say that word?
SCHLESSINGER: It depends how it's said. Black guys talking to each other seem to think it's OK.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But they're not black. They're not black.
SCHLESSINGER: Oh, I see. So, a word is restricted to race. Got it. Can't do much about that.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I can't believe someone like you is on the radio spewing out the (EXPLETIVE DELETED), and I hope everybody heard it.
SCHLESSINGER: I didn't spew out the (EXPLETIVE DELETED) word. (EXPLETIVE DELETED). Right. I said that's what you hear.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Everybody heard it.
SCHLESSINGER: Yes, they did.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I hope everybody heard it.
SCHLESSINGER: They did, and I'll say it again. (EXPLETIVE DELETED) is what you hear on HB -- why don't you let me finish a sentence?
Don't take things out of context. Don't NAACP me. Leave them in context.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And I know it came from a white person, and I know the white person said made that.
SCHLESSINGER: All right. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. Can't have this argument. You know what, if you're that hypersensitive about color and don't have a sense of humor, don't marry out of your race.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: When she said that, if you're that insensitive, don't marry out of your race there, was, and I'll admit, a collective gasp across the CNN newsroom tonight when we were listening to that, preparing it for the broadcast. Of all the things she said, that may have been -- and I'll let you talk here, I'm sorry, Jane, but that may have been the thing that could possibly get her in the most amount of trouble, would you say?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes because what would Freud say? Maybe Freud would say, hey, maybe she doesn't want people to marry outside of their race. This is not the first time that Dr. Laura has put her foot in her mouth big time. Some of the things that she said about gays have become a source of huge controversy. Here are some of her greatest hits, quote, "a huge portion of the male homosexual populous is predatory on young boys."
Quote, "if you're gay or lesbian, it's a biological error. Quote "I call homosexual practices deviant." In the past, when there were protests after she said these inflammatory things, she also apologized. In fact, she put a full page out in a magazine. So, she apparently thinks that she could say anything she wants and then there's going to be enough for her, and she thinks to say I'm sorry, it is going to go away, but I don't think it's going to happen this time around. I don't think she can put this genie back in the bottle.
SANCHEZ: Roland Martin is joining us now. He's just called in to our show. Roland, in that last exchange, we did hear her say a couple of things. She said, yes, I said it, I'll go to Jane, and then hopefully when Roland joins us, he can share his perspective on this.
But she says, yes, I said it, and I'll say it again. And then she goes on to say the "n" word I guess several times. I have the transcript here somewhere. She also said something that was interesting, and I didn't quite catch the meaning of it. But I think Roland, maybe -- Roland, are you there now?
ROLAND MARTIN, CNN CONTRIBUTOR (via telephone): Yes, I'm here, Rick.
SANCHEZ: When she says don't you NAACP me, what was she trying to say -- NAACP. What is that? Suddenly I'm talking football here instead of something else. What did you make of that, Roland?
MARTIN: Well, first of all, the entire conversation is an illogical one, because when she starts saying, hey, get over the chip on your shoulder, she clearly is being totally insensitive to this woman's concern. Now, Dr. Laura, to my understanding, is Jewish. How would Dr. Laura like it if somebody used a derogatory word that folks use against Jews consistently around her and her husband allowed it or said nothing? And so, then, when I went on -- as I read the transcript, and trust me, I understand when she makes this point about well, comedians use this word all the time.
When I ran "The Chicago Defender," Rick, I actually put in huge bold face -- and I'll say it only because this was a headline -- I put the word "nigger" on the front page on one of the most historic black newspapers in the history of America because I want African-Americans to stop using it. And so I get it when people say, well, comedians use it on stage so what is your problem? But the reality is comedians on stage say things about African-Americans, Hispanics, gays, white men, white women, Asians, you name it. But we all know in every day life, we know the difference between the stage and the real world.
SANCHEZ: But it's not really so much about the word, is it? I mean, look, anybody can mess up. I couldn't say NAACP a little while ago while I was talking to you.
MARTIN: Right, right, right. SANCHEZ: Anybody can make a mistake. It's what these bloggers are telling us tonight is, that they've listened to the entirety of what she says, and the "n" word is the least of their problem with what she says. She makes comments about the fact that because we have a black president, we can't have racism, or suggesting that there can't be racism out there. She's telling a woman who's married to a black man that he's too -- a black woman who's married to a white man that he's too sensitive.
I mean, these are the parts of the conversation that people are taking part.
MARTIN: Oh, absolutely.
SANCHEZ: And really having very serious questions about. And I'm going to ask both you and Jane about this, because I think this is an important national conversation. That's what we do on this show. And I think these are the kind of things that, you know, Hispanics and whites and blacks should be talking about. It's these insensitivities that we sometimes dance around because we're too fearful of it.
We're going to be right back. This is RICK'S LIST. I'm Rick Sanchez. Stay right there.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: You know, I apologize. We're trying to turn the sound around from Dr. Laura as fast as we can, but it's turned out that as we've presented it to you, we've kind of presented it to you out of order. The first one came at the end of the conversation, then the one you heard last time was in the middle. And this one, we've got another one now. I want to play for you.
This one is from the very beginning of the conversation, where the woman had just called in, saying could you give me some advice to deal with my husband? The conversation begins very amicably, by the way, and then it gets very tense.
Go ahead. Take that.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE CALLER: Hi, Dr. Laura.
SCHLESSINGER (via telephone): Hi.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE CALLER: I'm having an issue with my husband, where I'm starting to grow very resentful of him. I am black and he's white. We've been around some of his friends and family members who start making racist -- start making racist comments, as if I'm not there or if I'm not black. And my husband ignores those comments and it hurts my feelings. And then he just acts like he's --
SCHLESSINGER: Can you give me an example of a racist comment? Because sometimes people are hypersensitive. So, tell me -- give me two good examples of racist comments. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. Last night, good example, we had a neighbor come over, and this neighbor, every time he comes over, it's always a black comment. It's oh, how do you black people like doing this? And do black people really like doing that? And for a long time I would ignore it, but last night I got to the point --
SCHLESSINGER: I don't think that's racist.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, the stereotype --
SCHLESSINGER: I don't think that's racist. No, I think that's -- no, no, no. I think that's -- well, listen. Without giving it much thought, a lot of blacks voted for Obama simply because he was half black. Didn't matter what he was going to do in office, it was a black thing. You got to know that. That's not a surprise.
Not everything that somebody says -- we had friends over the other day. Got about 35 people here. The guys were going to start playing basketball. I was going to go out and play basketball. My bodyguard and my dear friend is a black man. And I said white men can't jump. I want you on my team. That was racist? That was funny.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How about the "n" word? The "n" word has been thrown around.
SCHLESSINGER: Black guys use it all the time. Turn on HBO. Listen to a black comic and all you hear is (EXPLETIVE DELETED). I don't get it. If anybody -- if anybody without enough melanin says it, it's a horrible thing. But when black people say it --
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ: Roland Martin is joining us as well as Congressman Alan Grayson who we had on to talk about the situation as President Obama and the White House. But we're going to pick up with this conversation as well.
Gentlemen, think about what you just heard right there from Dr. Laura Schlessinger. I'm very interested in getting your response to it and your take and we're going to do that in just a moment.
Congressman Alan Grayson, Roland martin, right here on RICK'S LIST after listening to Dr. Laura's rant. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Welcome back. As I mentioned a little while ago, the rant, as it's being called by Dr. Laura Schlessinger on her radio show is now the subject of African-American blogs all over the country, as well as others who, you know, follow what is often deemed as insensitivity. Here's another. We've been trying to share some of these because we connect to, not just bloggers, but folks on Twitter, or Twitter accounts et cetera, et cetera, specifically on this show.
This is doctor -- Professor Blair Kelly. She blogs tonight and tweets tonight, pardon me. "Dr. Laura screamed "n" word over and over on the radio while explaining to a black woman that she was too sensitive."
Now, many of you had a chance to hear this. For those who haven't, I'm going to put in on my blog. All right? My blog is CNN.com/ricksanchez.
It's been too fast and we haven't been able to play the entire thing from top to bottom but you've gotten pretty much the gist of what Dr. Laura has said. Two guests that I have right now. I want to end talking about these two things. I have Roland Martin and Congressman Alan Grayson. Both of them joining us now.
Roland, let me start with you.
MARTIN: Sure.
SANCHEZ: That last part of the speech that you heard, where you heard her make several references to President Obama and several other things, what was it about what she said that you think we should pay particular attention to?
MARTIN: Sure. First of all, we need to deconstruct what she said. First of all, Dr. Laura is absolutely correct when she says that people can sometimes be hypersensitive.
SANCHEZ: Of course.
MARTIN: That's very true. But here's what's interesting. And she said that she wasn't even listening to what the woman even said. Remember later in the conversation she said that I had a bodyguard who's black?
SANCHEZ: Yes.
MARTIN: Who's a really good friend of mine? I made a comment to him about white men can't jump, I want you on my team, and it's funny? Well, she's friends with him. The woman said at the outset, my husband's friends and his family members. So she didn't have a comfort level with these people where they can make comments around her and she simply excused them. The second thing is here, Dr. Laura moves all the way to that's not racist when the woman never said initially what was racist. She simply said they use -- they make comments --
SANCHEZ: She said she was uncomfortable and she wanted advice on how to deal with it.
MARTIN: They start making racist comments. Right. So what the woman is saying is I am perceiving this, it makes me uncomfortable. I'm not friends with this people. And then Dr. Laura says that's not racist. Well, you can't be in that woman's shoes. A man can make a comment to a woman and he might say to Rick, well, Rick, I don't see the big deal. But the woman says, wait a minute, I'm a woman dude. I saw that as sexist. You can't dismiss that. You have to own up to it. So she was way over the line with her analogy that she used and was totally disrespectful to this woman. SANCHEZ: Roland, my thanks to you. Let me bring in Alan Grayson just to button this up because he and I have other business to attend to in just a little bit. And that is having to do with the comments that he has made about Robert Gibbs. But before we do, Congressman Grayson, if you'd like to, you know, go ahead and get into this since we've been discussing it throughout the show, have you heard would like to go ahead and get into this. Have you heard Dr. Laura Schlessinger's comments? And what do you make of them, sir?
REP. ALAN GRAYSON (D), FLORIDA: I did. I think it reflects a fundamental choice that we all make in every day life, which is are we going to say any stupid thing that comes into our heads or you're going to give some consideration to the feelings of others? I think we need to give some consideration to the feelings of others, and she failed to do that. I am particularly incensed that she would say to somebody maybe you shouldn't marry outside of your race. Who is she to say something like that? I married outside of my race. So, by the way, did Moses. Moses married an Ethiopian woman. Isn't it time that we just moved on? Isn't it time that we just minded our own business?
SANCHEZ: Let's leave it at that. We're going to come right back with Alan Grayson in just a little bit. He has some choice words for how Robert Gibbs has handled his position of late and some of the comments that he's made about liberals.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Wow. I'm not sure I've seen the Twitter board light up like this in a while. So many of you are making comments about this Dr. Laura story that we're doing tonight. Thousands of tweets have been coming in with people who are commenting on Dr. Laura's situation, and we will continue to bring you the very latest as it comes in.
And once again, let me just be as clear as I possibly can on this. We have reached out to Dr. Laura. We've reached out to as many people on her staff. We would welcome them on the show at any time so that they can give us perspective on what it is that happened during that show. And we have now on several occasions, three I believe, read Dr. Laura's apology. She has officially apologized for what she said to that woman, to that woman on the air yesterday.
Meanwhile, tonight, some Democrats are forming sort of a circular firing squad around one of the top guys at the White House. Remember last month, that's when Press Secretary Robert Gibbs predicted that the president's party could lose control of the House. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi at the time reportedly went off. They say that she called Gibbs inept. Well, now, Gibbs says pick the fight with the president's face. What Robert Gibbs called the professional left. Professional left. Folks who think that Mr. Obama isn't progressive enough.
Well, here's Mr. Gibbs' quote. He says, "I hear these people saying he's like George Bush. Those people ought to be drug tested. They wouldn't be satisfied if Dennis Kucinich was president." Of course, the lefty blogs went crazy with this. A Democrat in Congress said that Mr. Gibbs should resign. And now Gibbs is getting asked about it daily. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERT GIBBS, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: I don't plan on leaving so -- and there's no truth to the rumor that I've added an inflatable exit to my office, so --
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: I am guessing that Congressman Alan Grayson is not seeing the humor of this. He is a Democrat from Florida, as many of you know. We've had him on the show before. And he's good enough to join us once again.
Congressman, thanks again for being with us. When Gibbs was -- when Gibbs was talking about professional lefties, would that be you?
GRAYSON: I think Gibbs was talking about the people who knock on doors, the people who made phone calls, the people who contributed to Barack Obama's campaign. He's talking about the people who gave him his job and made it possible for Barack Obama to be president. And he was denigrating us. I think that's unfortunate.
SANCHEZ: He says at some point and I didn't read this part of the quote, but I'm recalling now that he also said, he says folks like you are not going to be happy until we have Canadian-style health care. In fact, that was the very first part of his quote. What do you make of that?
GRAYSON: I make of it that he actually is on the other side. The reason why he's having so much difficulty in promoting the president's agenda and making progress is because it appears that secretly or actually no longer secretly, it turns out that he actually knows FOX's talking points and little else. The fact is that Canadians, living in some of the harshest conditions on this planet, live three years longer than Americans do on the average.
Do you think that might have something to do with their health care system? He is listening too much to FOX. If people want to listen to FOX, they can turn on FOX. They shouldn't have to watch the same talking points spewed by the president's own spokesman.
I want the president to succeed. I want us to make progress as a country. I want to solve unemployment. I want to solve the health care problems, and we can't do it if somebody like that is speaking for the president.
SANCHEZ: Let me ask you a question because, you know, here's what interesting. If you listen to Republicans, they'll tell you that this president, and Gibbs, and everybody who is around him in this administration are all complete lefties. I keep hearing this every day. The most liberal president and administration in the history of the United States. Some go as far as to call him communist. So here you are on the left, saying that the president's administration, certainly his front man, is too far to the right and the right is saying that the president is not only a lefty, but a communist, no less?
GRAYSON: That's not the point.
SANCHEZ: How do you reconcile both of these things?
GRAYSON: That's not the point.
SANCHEZ: OK.
GRAYSON: The point is he's a failure. I don't care left, right, center, that doesn't matter in that job. What matters is he has failed to promote the president's program and explain to the public what's going on. He's been Outfoxed by FOX over and over again.
FOX sets the agenda now in this country, not the president. That's why we hear so much about the birthers, even today. That's why we hear about mosques. That's why we hear about repealing the 14th Amendment and why we don't hear about what the president has done and what Congress has done in order to deal with the problems that face us. He's a failure. That's why he has to go.
SANCHEZ: But Congressman, if he was here, he'd probably say you don't understand. Having this job requires a certain level of diplomacy where you have to play it both sides. What would you say if he said that?
GRAYSON: I think he simply hasn't done the job. It's that simple. The president has done all sorts of great things and he keeps slipping in the polls. Why is that? Could it possibly have something to do with his spokesman? Is that conceivable?
SANCHEZ: All right. We'll have to leave it at that. Congressman Grayson, thank you once again, sir, for coming on and sharing your perspective with us here on RICK'S LIST.
GRAYSON: Thank you too.
SANCHEZ: Up next, defending Sarah Palin. Yes, defending Sarah Palin. Someone's got to do it. I will.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Just to let you know that as soon as I come back, I'm going to be defending Sarah Palin from some bullies. Seriously, bullies. That's next.
But as we go to break, we keep lists of a lot of people, among those, some who are watching tonight, as a matter of fact. Like my wife's favorite, Suze Orman.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Welcome back. I'm Rick Sanchez. It's time to defend Sarah Palin. You know why? Because what is wrong is wrong, and civility needs to be defended. Time now for "The List U Don't Want 2 Be On."
I want you to meet Keith Halloran. He's running for public office in New Hampshire, a spot in the statehouse no less. He has said something that is not excusable. All right. It is not funny. It is not right and it certainly isn't civil.
Plane crashes, first of all, are not something to joke about. Not any plane crash, period. Certainly not this plane crash, the one that killed this former U.S. senator, not to mention a 16-year-old girl, among others. Halloran could not resist throwing Sarah Palin's name into that mix, that plane crash.
Here's what he wrote on Facebook about the crash. Quote, "Just wish Sarah and Levi were on board. Levi Johnston, of course, is the father of Palin's grandson. All right. In an e-mail to CNN, Halloran has now apologized. What this aspiring politician did, stinks of hateful opportunism.
I mean, politics is important. It's the lifeblood of our democracy. But it's not nor should it be a partisan blood sport. It matters not what you think of Sarah Palin, the politician, or Sarah Palin, the speaker, or Sarah Palin, the celebrity. It only matters that Sarah Palin should be considered Sarah Palin, the mom, the wife, the person, just like the people who matter in your life. Just like the people who matter in my life.
Bottom line, you just don't do people like that. You don't wish for anyone to die, period. You don't do people like that. That's plain and simple. It's wrong. And that's why today this Democrat, Keith Halloran, is on the top of "The List U that Don't Want 2 Be On."
I'm Rick Sanchez. I'm taking the day off tomorrow, but I've got Max filling in for me. He's going to do RICK'S LIST. And right now, here's Larry King with "LARRY KING LIVE."
