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Nancy Grace
Croslin`s Attorney Says She Hid While Haleigh Was Taken
Aired August 18, 2010 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight, Satsuma, Florida. A 5- year-old girl tucked into bed, five hours later, she`s gone. Daddy comes home from the night shift to find not a trace of little Haleigh. The last person to see her alive, new stepmother Misty Croslin, who goes on to flunk four polygraphs. Haleigh`s father, Ronald Cummings, and stepmother Croslin both booked on drug trafficking. Search times, cadaver dogs, scuba divers all combing the St. John`s River as the search for the entire body and the murder weapon goes on.
Bombshell tonight. Did Croslin finally crack? Her attorney, in the halls of the courthouse itself, just reveals explosive allegations, insisting the last night Haleigh is seen alive, the little girl is assaulted, screaming, then kidnapped, carried away in a black bag. A van door slides open, slams shut, drives away. But can Croslin and even her attorney be believed? Do we finally have our answers? What happened to 5- year-old Haleigh?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: At this point, I`m going to call it a homicide.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The attorney says Croslin was hiding under a blanket but could hear the 5-year-old girl screaming.
HANK CROSLIN, MISTY`S FATHER: What ever you know, you can tell.
MISTY CROSLIN, HALEIGH`S BABY-SITTER: Daddy, I have. It`s not my fault they don`t listen.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How can you be under the covers and also see her in the bag?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... and saw Overstreet put Haleigh in a black bag.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: None if it makes sense.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She heard Haleigh in there crying. She grabbed Junior and got into bed and they covered up their heads completely. And when she took the covers off of her head, Haleigh was gone.
RONALD CUMMINGS, HALEIGH`S FATHER: I just want my daughter back!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re hoping to make an arrest this case.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When she first told the story about the night Haleigh went missing, she said the back door was propped open with a cinderblock.
911 OPERATOR: You said your back door was wide open?
MISTY CROSLIN: Yes. It was brick -- like, a brick on the floor.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: First thing that I was told was that Joe had killed her.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There`s so many people talking.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don`t even know whether she was dead when she hit the water or not.
CRYSTAL SHEFFIELD, HALEIGH`S MOTHER: Nobody knows the pain that I go through. Nobody!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And tonight, a little girl vanishes from a birthday party just two blocks from her own home. Tonight, where is 13-year-old Karina (ph)?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A 13-year-old girl, missing Karina Valencia, was at a friend`s birthday party around 6:30 PM Saturday night.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Very extensive investigation is going on.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Los Angeles police are desperately searching.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Her frequent points of contact would be at the library in Sylmar. She also frequents a park on Polk Street and Brandon Avenue.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police stay it`s possible Karina may have left party to meet up with an unidentified male she met on the Internet via MySpace.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She was in contact with a person, apparently, on MySpace.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That was the last time anyone saw her. Police are very concerned for her safety.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now, she`s been missing since Saturday?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Karina has not had any contact with her family since Saturday night -- missing 13-year-old girl, who may have been headed to meet a man she met on MySpace. Police are searching the area for any sign of Karina and have asked the public`s help in locating her.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She weighs about 90 pounds and she`s about 5-foot, 3.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Last seen wearing a white Madonna (ph) shirt and black shorts.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to think you for being with us. bombshell tonight. Did Croslin, Misty Croslin, finally crack? Her attorney there in the halls of courthouse just reveals explosive allegations that the last night Haleigh alive, the little girl is assaulted, screaming, then carried away in a van in a black bag.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MISTY CROSLIN: They need to move on, get away from me, get off from me. They need to move on.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Misty Croslin`s lawyer says Croslin was hiding under a blanket but could hear the 5-year-old girl screaming...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t believe anything that Misty says.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... and saw Overstreet put Haleigh in a black bag.
SHEFFIELD: Deep in my heart, I know she`s out there.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She`s told so many stories. Whatever it is, it needs to be proven.
TOMMY CROSLIN, MISTY`S BROTHER: I don`t know why she`s making up (EXPLETIVE DELETED). She probably knows something.
MISTY CROSLIN: I don`t have the answer. I`m not the key in what (INAUDIBLE) It`s not me.
SHEFFIELD: Do I believe my daughter`s dead? No.
MISTY CROSLIN: People keep saying, this person, this person, so you know, in your mind, you`re, like, Well, hey, that`s that person. So you actually start to believe it.
CUMMINGS: If I find whoever has my daughter before y`all do, I`m killing him.
SHEFFIELD: I just want whoever took her to let her go!
CUMMINGS: I know somebody took my little girl!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight out to investigative journalist Art Harris. Art, the attorney there in the courthouse halls reveals a startling theory, allegation -- it`s more than a theory. It`s allegations about what happened that night, that Haleigh was assaulted, was screaming, then stuffed into a black bag and taken away in the night in a van. What happened?
ART HARRIS, INVESTIGATIVE JOURNALIST: Nancy, Robert Fields is saying for the first time publicly that Misty Croslin has told police from the beginning that cousin Joe -- cousin Joe came to the trailer looking for a machine gun, got mad, couldn`t find it, grabbed Haleigh...
GRACE: Oh! Oh! Oh! Oh! Wa-wait! Wait! A machine gun? A machine gun?
HARRIS: Yes, that`s...
GRACE: Before that, it was some other gun. Now it`s a machine gun?
HARRIS: No, no, no. Nancy, it`s always been...
GRACE: Because if I find a crack...
HARRIS: ... a machine gun.
GRACE: ... in this story, Croslin`s just lying again!
HARRIS: No, Nancy. Let me...
GRACE: But Art, if the attorney says it, he must believe it.
HARRIS: The attorney says he came there looking for a machine gun that Ronald had showed off a week or so before. It wasn`t there. He got mad and grabbed Haleigh. Misty is frightened after Joe gropes her, gropes her sexually, roughs her up. She grabs Junior, dives sunder the covers, is cringing as she hears Haleigh screaming, and finally lifts her blanket up a little bit to peek out and sees him toss her in a black bag. And then she pulls the covers back, hears the van door outside slam.
Tommy Croslin was there at the beginning. She said he looked stunned as Joe went crazy. Now, Joe has denied any involvement. But suddenly, Tommy picks up the story and has told his lawyer that he rode down to the river, where he sat in the van. He was high on Xanax. And he looked out and saw Joe take Haleigh to the edge of the dock. But he didn`t see him drop her in.
GRACE: OK, Jean Casarez, why is it at that crucial moment, suddenly, he can`t see anymore? You want to tell me that at the moment this child, most likely still alive, is thrown into the St. John River, he averts his gaze? I don`t believe that for one minute!
JEAN CASAREZ, "IN SESSION": I think that`s someone that doesn`t have legal knowledge that thinks that will make them not guilty of any crime. You know, Nancy...
GRACE: Well, actually, Jean, I`ve seen that many, many times. A co- defendant will verify a story as to what happened up until the very moment when the gun is fired or the car takes off or the bank is robbed. Then somehow, they didn`t see exactly what happened at the crucial moment. This is not the first time I have seen this scenario. Go ahead.
CASAREZ: Nancy, when I read this story, heard about it, I immediately went to Florida law. Do you know how many crimes that I believe that there is probable cause that they could be arrested on? May I start with child neglect? But here`s the reality. No one has been charged with anything.
GRACE: And that`s what I don`t understand. To you, Marlaina Schiavo. What more can you tell us?
MARLAINA SCHIAVO, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, it`s really bizarre that she said that she peeked out from underneath the cover at the last minute and saw this black bag, Nancy, because if she was underneath the covers -- we`ve seen the layout of the trailer -- where would Joe, the cousin, have to be standing while all of this was happening? So...
GRACE: OK. Great. Thank you, Dana. That`s just what I want to see. Marlaina, look at your screen. What are we seeing?
SCHIAVO: That`s the bedroom. And so she said she was in the larger bed with Junior. Now, you see the doorway is right there. Where would Joe have to be -- cousin Joe have to be doing all of these things she`s saying when it was happening, that she could just peek out? Did she see through the wall? And then she said she heard several doors slamming, but we know that she also said that that back door was propped open with a cinderblock. So again, a lot of inconsistencies.
GRACE: Well, another thing -- back to you, Art Harris. What is giving this credence is that the attorney is saying this. Look, even defense attorneys have some modicum of honor. They`re not going to put out some crazy story, also a story that they may be stuck with when they go back court. They`ll be stuck with that story. They can`t change their minds midstream. The attorney is saying this there in the courthouse halls!
HARRIS: Nancy, what he is saying is that Misty told police right after she was investigated -- arrested back in January and has not really wavered from this story for all these months.
GRACE: Another issue is, it`s my understanding that Croslin says that she saw Haleigh stuffed in a black bag, either a bag, a trash bag or a suitcase. Now, right there, Art, anybody -- my great grandma Clotilde (ph) can see the difference between a suitcase and a trash bag. How can you not know?
HARRIS: Nancy, it was very quick. I don`t know. I can`t explain it. I`m just telling you what Misty has told her attorney. And I reported on Artharris.com that she saw one of the above. It looked like a black bag and was not sure what kind. I can tell you, though, that the next day, Tommy -- I mean, Joe wanted to get that suitcase and was too nervous to go to the house, according to a person who drove him to a convenience store.
GRACE: Well, I think they should all be charged because she was there when it happened. She did nothing to help. And the -- Tommy Croslin in the car -- he did nothing to help. Do they think that`s going to save their skin at trial?
Out to the lines. Ann in Louisiana. Hi, Ann.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. It`s nice to talk with you again.
GRACE: Likewise.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I have a quick question, which really is about this case but could apply to so many you`re covering (INAUDIBLE) I know that they can triangulate a person`s phone and find out where they were at a particular time. But I`m wondering, does technology allow them to somehow use the tower and just check what other phones were at that place at that time so they could maybe find out who else was in the area? Is that technically possible, do you know?
GRACE: Now, that is a good question. Let us go to Marc Harrold, former officer, APD, attorney, author of "Observations of White Noise," joining us out of D.C. Marc Harrold, what about it, Marc? Is that possible?
MARC HARROLD, FMR. ATLANTA POLICE OFFICER AND ATTORNEY: Yes, it`s technically possible, but you`d really have to -- I mean, to make it even practical to do, you`d have to have the phones you were looking for to see if they had pinged off those towers. Technically, you could backtrack, like a reverse directory with phone numbers, and work up what phones had pinged off that tower. But we`re talking about, you know, even in a rural area, it`d be almost impractical to do. It`d be very expensive to do if you were just looking generally to see which phones had pinged off that tower. But if you had a collection of, say, 10, 20 phones, you may be able to do that and figure out which ones had pinged off that tower and triangulate to find out...
GRACE: So you`re saying...
HARROLD: ... which phones were in the area.
GRACE: ... you can reverse ping.
Let`s unleash the lawyers. Joining us tonight, renowned attorney out of LA, Gloria Allred, Raymond Giudice, defense attorney, Atlanta, Randy Kessler, defense attorney, Atlanta.
First to you, Gloria. What do you think of this? It`s not just Croslin. It`s now her attorney giving this story right there in the halls of the courthouse!
GLORIA ALLRED, VICTIMS` RIGHTS ATTORNEY: Interesting, Nancy. And the question is, why is he disclosing this to the press? Obviously, the sheriff is very, very upset that these kinds of details are being provided to the public by the attorney because the sheriff feels that it could in some way impede his investigation. So what`s the motive? What`s the agenda of the defense attorney? How does he think this is going to help his client?
GRACE: Ray Giudice?
RAYMOND GIUDICE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I think he may be just be trying to force the sheriff`s office hand. If this story...
GRACE: Oh, please!
GIUDICE: ... has been in existence for a year-and-a-half...
GRACE: That`s not working.
GIUDICE: ... the problem is that the state`s attorney doesn`t want to go to trial with Misty Croslin as his star witness. They want to corroborate either by physical evidence or another witness. The problem is, in the last year-and-a-half, she`s become a worse witness for them.
GRACE: Kessler?
RANDY KESSLER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I think he`s saying, Enough is enough. My client`s been accused of being the murderer in the whole public eye. Everyone thinks she did it. She didn`t do it. She might have done something bad, but not what everybody thinks.
GRACE: Well, you know what? Even by her own words, if I were prosecuting this case, they would all stew in the same pot. I`d put all four of them, all three of them on trial together.
Everybody, quick break. We are taking your calls. But as we go to break, I want to thank you so much for supporting our new book "Death on the D-List." You made it a "New York Times`" best seller. We just found out before I went on the air tonight. My proceeds going to a Methodist home for the handicapped. I can`t thank you enough. Thank you.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MISTY CROSLIN: I didn`t do anything with that little girl!
JOE OVERSTREET, MISTY`S COUSIN: I didn`t do it.
TOMMY CROSLIN: And I had nothing to do with none of that crap.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: New information from the last known person to see Haleigh Cummings.
MISTY CROSLIN: I woke up, she was gone!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The woman baby-sitting Haleigh Cummings the night she disappeared changing her story.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Misty Croslin believes that Joe Overstreet, her cousin, was looking for a gun...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... a machine gun...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... that belonged to Haleigh`s father, but he couldn`t find it that night.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When Overstreet couldn`t find it, she claims he took Haleigh instead.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... according to Misty Croslin`s attorney...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Croslin says she heard Haleigh scream, cry and struggle. And then Croslin says she saw her cousin, Joe Overstreet, put Haleigh into a black bag.
SHEFFIELD: This is a 5-year-old baby!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why would you hide and let a little 5-year-old scream like that? You know, how can the neighbors hot hear her?
MISTY CROSLIN: They`re going to know.
I just got to wait until I can -- my lawyer is ready.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are taking your calls. Right now, out to Leonard Padilla, bounty hunter, who was working a deal to get Croslin out from behind bars, bail her out. Leonard, what do you make of this, the fact that the attorney has committed to this story, to these allegations, right there in the courthouse halls? That`s big deal.
LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER: Well, he`s a defense attorney. You were always a prosecutor. And defense attorneys -- basically, he`s got -- he`s trying to get her down to a youthful offender situation. And there`s nothing wrong in him repeating what she states. He`s not lying about what she`s stating. He might be, you know, over-emphasizing certain issues and points. But what he`s trying to do is get her down to a youthful offender level and not 30 years in prison.
But the thing about Misty is that every time she`s told a story, it doesn`t make that much sense. The one thing that missing in this whole jigsaw puzzle is Timmy. That van came from Timmy`s house. Everybody has said, OK, the van was there. It came from Timmy`s house. But yet they throw Joe in the van. I don`t think Joe ever was at that trailer that night.
The thing about a gun begin stolen and all that -- that had taken place when Joe Overstreet first came to Satsuma. That was about a month before. And they recovered that gun. And that had nothing to do with this particular situation.
I don`t think he was looking for a gun. I don`t think he was there. He was asleep at Tim`s house. I`d be looking to Tim and saying, Wait a minute, you`re the guy that moved to Massachusetts right away. And also, I`ve talked extensively to Jennifer (ph), who drove with Joe to Tennessee.
That`s not to say that I believe everything that these folks say, but there was nothing awkward in anything that he said to her along the way. They stopped at a gas station, emptied some stuff out of the car. FBI got ahold of that shortly thereafter.
GRACE: Well, let me ask you this...
PADILLA: I have a lot of faith in law enforcement.
GRACE: Leonard, why is it that she goes missing and he hightails it out of town the very next day?
PADILLA: It was a scheduled trip. Jennifer was going back to Tennessee, and it was scheduled. He stuck around the next morning and hung fliers. He didn`t leave that night, or you know, early in the morning. He was out hanging fliers with Misty. When we got into town, there was no suspicion.
GRACE: Out to the lines. Leslie, South Carolina. Hi, Leslie.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. I just wanted to say I am not impressed with the law enforcement down there. And I`m not blaming them for this. Misty Croslin may be young, but I think she`s extremely street smart. Four polygraphs -- I believe she knows they`re not admissible in court. Also, if she has been charged with these drug charges, then -- and she committed this crime, what`s to make her confess?
GRACE: You know, you`re absolutely right. Gloria Allred, does she have law enforcement over the barrel?
ALLRED: Well, she certainly cannot be compelled to say anything more than she`s already said, and she has in some ways given inconsistent statements. So in a way, yes, law enforcement has to figure out how to extract from her any other evidence that they have not already extracted.
GRACE: What about it, Marc Klaas?
MARC KLAAS, KLAAS KIDS FOUNDATION: She`s got everybody over the barrel! She is -- she has Van der Slooted this story to the point where she has absolutely no credibility whatsoever and any story that she says will have to have verification and/or proof in order to be believed.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HANK CROSLIN: Don`t be holding nothing back from nobody. Just...
MISTY CROSLIN: Daddy, I`m not!
HANK CROSLIN: ... get it out there. Let it out, Man. Tell the truth.
GRACE: ... the St. Johns River...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All along, she`s saying she didn`t know anything.
MISTY CROSLIN: I don`t know where she is!
I`m not hiding anything.
I don`t!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Misty Croslin`s lawyer told local media...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... Joe Overstreet...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... and another man came to the house...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And he was looking for a machine gun.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When Overstreet couldn`t find it, she claims, he took Haleigh.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He took his frustrations out on Misty Croslin and then moved on to Haleigh.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Things just don`t ad up.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Croslin says she and Haleigh`s little brother hid under the covers.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why would you hide...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She heard Haleigh scream.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How could the neighbors not hear her?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Her cousin, Joe Overstreet, put Haleigh into a black bag.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... black bag...
OVERSTREET: I didn`t do it!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Back to Art Harris, investigative journalist on the case from the very gang. Art, what prompted the lawyer to reveal this allegation there in the halls of the courthouse?
HARRIS: Nancy, I think it was a surprise, combination of being surprised by the reporters but also frustration that this was a story...
GRACE: Wait, wait, wait. Art, surprised by the reporters? Reporters are all over this story! How could he be surprised by reporters?
HARRIS: Well, Nancy...
GRACE: It`s not like they jumped out from behind the trees in a courthouse hall!
HARRIS: Well, let`s just say it happened. Beyond that, this was a story that he knew she had been telling to police from the beginning. So from his point of view, she has been consistent and has told me she`s been squeezed...
GRACE: Now, wait a minute! Wait a minute! Wait a minute! Dana, pull up the 911 call. Basically! This is not what she told the police at the beginning. Remember, it was only when the daddy, Ronald Cummings, gets home that he finds out the child`s not there. Then they call police. So at the beginning, she wasn`t telling police this story!
HARRIS: Nancy, I meant in the beginning of the arrest phase, after she was popped for drugs, this is the story she`s told since January.
GRACE: Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait!
HARRIS: Story number two -- I`m not advocating. I`m saying this is his consistent story. He`s saying (INAUDIBLE)
GRACE: Let`s take it back. Hold on, Art. Hold on. This is what she said at the very beginning. Take a listen.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
911 OPERATOR: OK, sir, let me talk to your wife. Let me get some information from her.
CUMMINGS: (INAUDIBLE)
911 OPERATOR: Can I talk to her?
CUMMINGS: (INAUDIBLE)
911 OPERATOR: OK.
CUMMINGS: How the (EXPLETIVE DELETED) can you let my daughter get stolen (EXPLETIVE DELETED)?
(END AUDIO CLIP)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
911 OPERATOR: 911. What`s your emergency?
MISTY CROSLIN: Hi. I just woke up and our back door was wide open, and we can`t find our daughter.
911 OPERATOR: You can`t find what?
MISTY CROSLIN: Our daughter.
911 OPERATOR: OK, when did you last see her?
MISTY CROSLIN: We was just, like -- you know, it was about 10:00 o`clock. She was sleeping.
911 OPERATOR: You said your back door was wide open?
MISTY CROSLIN: Yes. It was brick -- like, a brick on the floor. Like, when I went to sleep, the door was not like that.
911 OPERATOR: OK, the back door -- listen to me. Your back door was wide open? What are you talking about a brick?
MISTY CROSLIN: Yes.
911 OPERATOR: What -- what is the brick?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FLORA HOLLARS, MISTY CROSLIN AND JOE OVERSTREET`S GRANDMOTHER: Those three grandkids of mine is involved in this. And I don`t know why.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: A horrifying new story emerges about Haleigh Cummings.
MISTY CROSLIN, FORMER STEPMOM/BABYSITTER OF HALEIGH CUMMINGS: They`re going to know. They`re going to know.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Misty Croslin, the last one to see the little girl, now claims the child was violently attacked.
M. CROSLIN: When I woke up, she was gone.
JOE OVERSTREET, MISTY CROSLIN`S COUSIN: I didn`t do (EXPLETIVE DELETED). My story and I`m sticking to it.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: And saw Overstreet put Haleigh in a black bag.
OVERSTREET: I didn`t do it.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: All three are pointing the finger at each other.
HOLLARS: And what Tommy told me.
TOMMY CROSLIN, MISTY CROSLIN`S BROTHER: They don`t want to listen to me.
HOLLARS: Says, Nanny, I have got to break down.
T. CROSLIN: I promise you, I`m done with all this stupid (EXPLETIVE DELETED).
HOLLARS: I got to tell somebody.
T. CROSLIN: And don`t be making stories.
M. CROSLIN: I was like, oh my god.
T. CROSLIN: Misty is going to get her little butt kicked.
HANK CROSLIN, MISTY CROSLIN`S FATHER: You tell them where Haleigh is, bring Haleigh home.
M. CROSLIN: I`m not -- I can`t just bring her home, you know?
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are taking your calls live. For those of you just joining us, explosive allegations, not from Croslin but actually from her attorney there in the halls of the courthouse.
As we go to air, we learned that he has stated little Haleigh taken out of the home that night, assaulted, then screaming -- taken out of the home in a black bag, thrown into a van. The doors slam, the van disappears.
To Dr. Patricia Saunders, clinical psychologist. You know what? Marc Klaas was right and Art Harris is right about Misty Croslin. Can we believe anything she says at this juncture? Because that`s where the lawyer is getting his information.
PATRICIA SAUNDERS, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: No, I -- we really can`t believe anything she says. She -- I think mixes little bits of reality in with fabrication. Let`s not forget, Nancy, this whole family are substance abusers so their sense of reality is fluid and so is their conscience. It`s easy for her to lie.
GRACE: Well, speaking of the family, take a listen to what some of the family has to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: I understand that you believe there is a scenario in which little Haleigh was molested before she was murdered?
HOLLARS: I feel like that.
GRACE: Why?
HOLLARS: I just don`t know but that`s what I think.
GRACE: Isn`t it true that there has been a scenario put out there and it had to come from behind bars that Misty Croslin heard the child in the next room screaming?
HOLLARS: Yes.
GRACE: Where did that come from?
HOLLARS: So did little Junior hear the couch bouncing.
GRACE: And my question is, where did that story come from?
HOLLARS: They came from Misty.
GRACE: What did she say?
HOLLARS: That she heard Haleigh in there crying.
GRACE: And who was in the courtroom with Haleigh?
HOLLARS: I`m going to say Joe or Tommy, one.
GRACE: Or both.
HOLLARS: Or both.
GRACE: What, if anything, did Misty Croslin do to take care of Haleigh?
HOLLARS: According to what she told me, when all this was going on, she had already been threatened by Joe and she grabbed Junior and got in the bed and they covered up their heads completely and when she took the covers off of her head, Haleigh was gone.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And back to the lawyers. Gloria Allred, L.A., Raymond Giudice, Atlanta, Randy Kessler, Atlanta.
Kessler, where does this leave Tommy Croslin if what the attorney says today at the courthouse is to be believed? He is basically saying I was just along for the ride. There is no along for the ride in a murder case. You are part and parcel of the whole thing.
RANDY KESSLER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, he is going to be along for the ride. It`s going to be a long ride sitting in jail for a long time. It`s going to be felony murder plus all the other things.
You`re right. You can`t bury your head and say I didn`t see it. That doesn`t count.
GRACE: And of course, to you, Gloria, in our jurisprudence system there is no duty to act. It`s not his duty to go save the child, but the fact that he rode along, and basically the kidnap van, and was there when the child was murdered, to my mind, makes him part and parcel of it.
GLORIA ALLRED, VICTIM`S RIGHTS ATTORNEY, CHILD ADVOCATE: Well, yes, and that`s what the defense attorney was just arguing and I think he`s right that if in fact there is a charge, it maybe that he`s going to be involved at least as a -- part of the felony murder if in fact that`s what there is evidence to support.
GRACE: And you know, Ray Giudice, I don`t buy into this whole "I was afraid of Joe Overstreet so I hid under the sheets". What`s hiding under the sheets? If you`re afraid, you`d run out the door. If you really are afraid, why would you hide under a sheet? That doesn`t make any sense?
RAY GIUDICE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, I don`t buy the story at all. And I think Putnam County Sheriff`s Department doesn`t either.
But let me just disagree with you. If her story is believed -- you just pointed out -- she has no obligation to stop a felony, meaning the kidnapping and the harm to that child. And in fact, she has an argument that she was protecting the other child in the bed by staying there with him.
GRACE: Really, Ray, is that so?
GIUDICE: She -- if her case --
GRACE: Then that -- does that theory extend to lying to police in the 911 call?
GIUDICE: Nancy, I`d roll her in and plead her to an obstruction tomorrow --
GRACE: Roll her in and --
(CROSSTALK)
GIUDICE: -- if we didn`t have to worry about a murder case. If we didn`t have to worry about a murder case.
GRACE: Yes, well --
GIUDICE: f her story is true, she will not be charged with murder.
GRACE: You`re making up in your mind.
GIUDICE: No.
GRACE: Because there is a murder case.
GIUDICE: I`m going --
GRACE: If we`re not dealing with murder -- we are dealing with murder of a 5-year-old girl.
GIUDICE: I`m going -- no. Nancy, I`m going with the story that the lawyers told in the courthouse. If that story is true --
GRACE: That`s murder.
GIUDICE: -- she will not be charged with murder. Write it down. She will not be charged with murder.
GRACE: OK. Yes, you know what, Ray? I am writing it down.
GIUDICE: OK, I`ll be back.
GRACE: To Dr. Leigh Vinocur, University of Maryland School of Medicine, joining us out of New York.
Dr. Vinocur, to prove a murder case it would help if we had the body.
DR. LEIGH VINOCUR, M.D., UNIVERSITY OF MARYLAND SCHOOL OF MEDICINE: True.
GRACE: If we find the body this much later, she`s just -- would have just turned 7 years old. What could you expect to find?
VINOCUR: Well, you wouldn`t have a lot of DNA evidence. It was like what happened with the other little girl in Florida. Sometimes, depending on the condition the body was kept in, whether you had bones and such. So it would be very hard to prove abuse in those types of thing if it was this far out.
GRACE: But, Art Harris, back to you. Where the body is found, the manner in which it is found, would add to a murder charge. And based on the story that you are reporting, how would she have been found?
ART HARRIS, INVESTIGATIVE JOURNALIST, ARTHARRIS.COM: That`s just it Nancy. The currents are swift. The gators are mean. And where are you going to find bones? And by then, of course, as you know -- and medical examiners have testified -- there is very little evidence that could be linked to even Joe`s knife that he was supposedly carrying.
GRACE: And to my mind, to my mind, Jean Casarez, if the decomposed body was found -- of course, by now it would just be skeletonized. Depending on how it was hidden if it were in fact in a black bag, that would go a long way to proving that the story is true.
Probably not her involvement or she would have told at the beginning if she were not involved in some way she would have picked up the phone and called 911.
JEAN CASAREZ, LEGAL CORRESPONDENT, "IN SESSION": Exactly. And that`s what I`ve been waiting to say. Because if we take the scenario as true, she did not call 911.
And, Nancy, am I missing something? She was the caregiver that night. That was her job. That`s why she was at the home that night. To take care of the children. And a caregiver does have a duty and does have responsibility. And by not calling 911 that aids to the neglect of the child.
GRACE: Well, you know, Jean, it`s not just not calling 911. She calls when the father comes home.
CASAREZ: She never called.
GRACE: And lie.
CASAREZ: The father called.
GRACE: Yes, you`re right.
CASAREZ: Ronald called.
GRACE: He dialed the number.
CASAREZ: Yes.
GRACE: Remember, the story she gives is a lie. It`s a lie.
CASAREZ: That`s right.
GRACE: So she, in effect, covered up for what happened. And Tommy Croslin saying he was high on Xanax that doesn`t impress me one bit as to his innocence.
Out to the lines, Diana, Washington. Hi, Diana.
DIANA, CALLER FROM WASHINGTON: Hi, it`s nice to talk to you again.
GRACE: Hi, dear.
DIANE: You guys have said pretty much everything I was going to ask except I have got another question. The first thing is if he was high on Xanax, he`d be asleep. You can`t get high on Xanax, it puts you to sleep.
But anyway, if he is in a black bag -- what I was going to say, why don`t they charge them all, but you`ve already touched on that a couple of times. So if she is in a black bag and she was in the river, OK, she`s probably gone. But if she`s in a black bag, have they even tried or thought about maybe digging up around the area?
GRACE: That`s good question.
DIANA: And I think she should be charged, too.
GRACE: I think she should, too. I think they are all part of it. They are all a party to the crime.
To Art Harris, didn`t they actually do some excavating there?
HARRIS: Yes, Nancy. Divers went down and they dug a bunch of things up including a bone. It turned out to be a Native American Indian bone and you find a lot of those in that area.
But to go back to the bag and the body, the story is that they dumped the body in, weigh it down with a cinder block, tied by a yellow rope, similar rope was found Tommy`s house the next day.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Who killed Haleigh Cummings?
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Divers removed two cinder blocks which are being examined.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He misses his baby. Good lord, his heart`s tore out.
RONALD CUMMINGS, FATHER OF HALEIGH CUMMINGS: Please, all I want is my child. That`s it.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CUMMINGS: I know somebody took my little girl.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m comfortable to go ahead and say that I`m going to call it a homicide.
CUMMINGS: Sorry piece of trash.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: He`s revealed to investigators that her cousin Joe Overstreet, he took Haleigh.
M. CROSLIN: People keep saying this person, this person, so you know in your mind, you`re, like, hey, it`s that person. So you actually start to believe it. Like the Joe thing.
CUMMINGS: If I find whoever has my daughter before you all do I`m killing them.
TERESA NEVES, HALEIGH CUMMINGS` MATERNAL GRANDMOTHER: Just want whoever took her to let her go.
CUMMINGS: I don`t care. I will spend the rest of my life in prison. I`m telling you. You can put it on recording. I don`t care.
CRYSTAL SHEFFIELD, BIOLOGICAL MOTHER OF HALEIGH CUMMINGS: I just want my baby home.
T. CROSLIN: If I knew something you`d know a long time ago. Leave me alone.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Joe Overstreet has been a person who Misty Croslin. And it appears he`ll --
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are taking your calls. The attorney for Croslin gives the story as to what happened to little Haleigh the night she was last seen alive. The story that she was heard screaming in the next room, thrown in a black bag, then placed in a van and disappeared into the night.
Is it finally for real?
Out to the lines, Missy in Indiana. Hi, Missy.
MISSY, CALLER FROM INDIANA: Hi, Nancy.
GRACE: Hi, dear. What`s your question?
MISSY: Question is, I -- I don`t think it`s ever been asked that why in the world was Ronald even with Misty after he filed for divorce? I mean they got arrested together. But no one, I don`t think, has ever asked the question why were they together?
GRACE: To Leonard Padilla, bounty hunter who`s offered to bail Croslin out, intimately involved in this case. Why did they get back together? Do you believe the story he was trying to get information about Haleigh?
LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER, OFFERED TO BAIL MISTY CROSLIN OUT OF JAIL: No, absolutely not. He likes young girls and she happened to be the young girl of the day. And even the divorce thing, the marriage, all of that stuff was all concocted by thinking that somehow they needed protection.
But in Florida, it doesn`t give you the wife/husband privilege. And why go out and look for another young girl when you have got one handy anyhow? And it`s all drug-related. And --
GRACE: You know, you`re right.
PADILLA: And the whole thing was a scam as far as what happened to that child.
GRACE: You`re right about Florida law. When it comes to the victimization of a child, the husband/wife privilege does not apply.
Back to Marc Klaas, president and founder of KlaasKids Foundation, what do you think?
MARC KLAAS, PRESIDENT AND FOUNDER, KLAASKIDS FOUNDATION: Well, I think that Leonard`s absolutely correct about Misty being the young girl of the moment and the young girl that was there.
I think that this is -- and I have said this before. This comes back to a small circle of individuals. This was not a stranger-generated attack on a little girl. This was about people that like young girls, people that like drugs, people that like guns, people that have no moral compass.
And basically, whatever happened that night -- and we`ll only know if it`s ever proven -- goes back to a very, very few people, many of whom we have been talking about this evening.
GRACE: Marc Klaas, this is your expertise. I think you are right.
Everybody, we`re taking your calls. But we`re switching gears. I want to her -- I want you to hear about a little who goes missing from a birthday party just two blocks from her own house. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: A missing 13-year-old girl. Police say Karina Valencia was seen at a friend`s birthday party in the area around 6:30 p.m. Saturday night.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A little bit more to it than just the average kid that gets in a little tick with mom or dad and walks away for a few hours.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: MySpace. Cops say it`s possible Karina left the party to meet up with an unidentified make she met on MySpace.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Young girl is radical, I think, on the Web site MySpace and things like that.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: She has not been seen or had any contact with her family. Police are searching the area for any sign of Karina.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You should ask a simple question, would you leave with somebody that you don`t know?
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Karina stands five foot tall, 90 pounds, long brown hair and brown eyes, last seen wearing a white Madonna shirt and black shorts.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You don`t know him and leave with nobody that I don`t know.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: California authorities are concerned for the welfare of a missing 13-year-old girl. Police are searching the area and have asked the public`s help in locating her.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight out to Sebastian Kunz, anchor with Green 960 AM joining out of San Francisco via Skype.
Sebastian, how do you disappear? How does a little girl disappear from a birthday party?
SEBASTIAN KUNZ, REPORTER, GREEN 960 AM, COVERING STORY: It`s unclear, Nancy. And we`re still awaiting information from the police regarding specifics. In fact, we understand in the next 13 minutes or so there is a news conference or police will be giving us some more information.
But you know, it all started Saturday night, a party, not far, just blocks away apparently from the family`s home. And family and friends were in fact in attendance at the party and young Karina also reportedly had no history of running away, which is why they are continuing to look a little more with concern. And obviously it`s been a few days since Saturday.
GRACE: You`re right, Sebastian Kunz. Sebastian, joining us from Green 960 AM.
To "L.A. Weekly" staff writer Dennis Romero, I don`t get it. At the birthday party there`s family, there`s friends, she`s a little girl. How could you lose a child at a birthday party a couple of blocks from your home?
DENNIS ROMERO, STAFF WRITER, LA WEEKLY, COVERING STORY: Well, it seems possible that she might have been in contact with some older boys or men that she had met on MySpace.
It`s also possible now that there was another party that she might have attended that night in which there was a shooting. Six people were injured at that party. And the LAPD is going to have a us in news conference to release some information about a possible connection between her case and the party.
GRACE: To Marc Klaas, president and founder of KlaasKids Foundation. Cops are telling us she`s at a birthday party -- this little girl. You`re seeing her picture right now. She is Karina Valencia, 5`3", 90 pounds, brown hair, brown eyes, wearing a white Madonna shirt, black shorts.
She is at a party with her family. How do you vanish from a birthday party? Something`s not right, Marc.
KLAAS: Well, if in fact she had met somebody on MySpace and there`s a pervert thought who had spent some time grooming her, he could very easily have convinced her to meet him at a neutral location, a location where there wouldn`t be people present so that he could quickly control and overwhelm her.
That certainly is not an impossibility at all. It happened. It`s happened before. And until governments in this country get it together and understand that these threats exist online, it will continue to happen.
GRACE: To Dr. Saunders, clinical psychologist joining us out of New York, a child this young can be so trusting to somebody that they meet online. They don`t know anything about the person. But they believe they know them. They`ve got a false sense of security because they`ve been conversing online.
SAUNDERS: That`s right, Nancy. There was a study that was just published this past June about risky Internet behavior and teenagers and tweens, and what was really scary was that 46 percent of the kids share personal information to strangers.
Only a tenth of those kids give things like their address, description and photographs of themselves. But parents really have to watch what kids are doing on places like MySpace. Kids are trusting. It`s exciting. It`s romantic and it`s rebellious. And they`re likely to act on it.
GRACE: Two hundred, thirty-three registered sex offenders there in that area, just surrounding -- just the five miles surrounding where Karina was last seen.
Back to Sebastian Kunz from 960 AM. Sebastian, what have police done to try to find the little girl?
KUNZ: Well, Nancy, you heard the one police officer say right there she`s known for being prolific on MySpace. They`ve been taking a close look at the social networking aspect of this and trying to figure out exactly who she was in contact with prior to the party.
And, you know, if there was perhaps a rendezvous that occurred following the party that maybe they aren`t aware of yet.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Karina Valencia, a missing 13-year-old girl. She was at a friend`s birthday party around 6:30 p.m. Saturday night. That was the last time anyone saw her.
California authorities are concerned. She has not been or had any contact with her family. May have been headed to meet a man she met on MySpace.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Karina Valencia was at a friend`s birthday party around 6:30 p.m. Saturday night.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A very extensive investigation is going on.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Thirteen-year-old girl, she was last seen two blocks away from her Sylmar home.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Los Angeles Police are desperately searching.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Young girl is radical, I think, on the Web site MySpace and things like that.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Police say it`s possible Karina may have left the party to meet up with an unidentified male she met on the Internet via MySpace.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Through our investigation we`ve determined that she has in fact been in contact with several males much older than she is.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Dennis Romero, did she have a cell phone?
ROMERO: Yes, she did. In fact I talked to her sister today. And she told me that she was in constant contact with her older sister until she went missing on Saturday. And that`s one of the reasons they were quite concerned. There weren`t very many times where she was out of touch like this.
GRACE: Well, to Marc Harrold, if she`s in constant contact with people via cell phone, that she`s texting, certainly there are messages that they can investigate.
MARC HARROLD, FMR. OFFICER, ATLANTA PD & DIGITAL EVIDENCE EXPERT, AUTHOR OF "OBSERVATIONS OF WHITE NOISE": Yes. Sort of the same thing we talked about earlier. You know, you can go to the third party, the -- Internet service provider and hopefully get a lot of those texts.
GRACE: Exactly.
HARROLD: Depending on how the settings are on the phone that she has and how advanced the phone is. And again, like we`ve said, you want to triangulate that phone and see if it`s on if you can find her so -- you know, there are a lot of --
GRACE: Good point, Marc Harrold.
To Rhonda in Missouri, hi, Rhonda, what`s your question?
RHONDA, CALLER FROM MISSOURI: Hi, Nancy. I watch your show all the time.
GRACE: Thank you.
RHONDA: My question is -- she`s such a young girl, only 13 years old. And my question is why did her family let her out at such a young age?
GRACE: That`s what I don`t get. Marc Klaas, did they know she was leaving the party -- quickly?
KLAAS: I have no idea what they knew. But we have to understand that kids can access the Internet through a variety of devices. It`s not only the home computer.
GRACE: Everybody, tip line, 818-838-9800.
Let`s stop and remember Army Captain Ralph Jay Harting III, 28, Union Lake, Michigan, killed Iraq. West Point grad. Awarded Bronze Star, Purple Heart, Army Commendation, Army Achievement, National Defense Service.
Lived by the West Point motto -- duty, horn, country. Loved soccer. Leaves behind parents June and Ralph, brothers Lawrence and William, serving the Navy, sister, Sara, widow, Jennifer. Children Warren, Ralph IV, and Adeline.
Ralph Jay Harting, American Hero.
Thanks to our guests for especially to you for being with us. And a special goodnight from Florida friends, winners of the Angel Ball Auction, Tom and June. And Georgia friend, Carol. Now that`s a classy bunch.
And good luck to one of our stars, Marlaina. Competing tomorrow night in the "Funniest Reporter Contest", Gotham Comedy Club.
Everybody, I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.
END
