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Nancy Grace
Peruvian Appeals Court to Rule on Van Der Sloot Objections
Aired August 23, 2010 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight in the disappearance of Alabama beauty Natalee Holloway, missing from her high school senior trip, Aruba. Aruban police refused to make a case against judge`s son Joran Van Der Sloot even after he admits he hid the body. Now Van Der Sloot kills another girl who meets him at a resort casino. She`s found beaten, bloody, neck broken, partially clothed on his hotel room floor. Spine-chilling video of Van Der Sloot with 21-year-old Stephany just before she`s found dead.
Bloody clothes from the murder found with Van Der Sloot on the run. After beating her to a pulp and breaking her neck, he kicks back with a cup of coffee and Danish, inches from the dead body. Blood drenching the crime scene, the bedroom floor, the bathroom floor, the bed, the hallway. DNA under the dead girl`s nails proving a death match with the hulking Dutchman.
Bombshell tonight. Even though two girls already dead at the hands of the judge`s son, including an American, with Van Der Sloot suspected in the disappearance of women in Thailand, Colombia, tonight, believe it or not, is judge`s son Joran Van Der Sloot set to walk free?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "I was really scared during the interrogations. I was confused and just wanted it to end."
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Joran Van Der Sloot is fighting his murder confession.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "Coerced. I was tricked. I`ll explain later how it happened."
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: -- graphic testimony about the death of Stephany Flores Ramirez...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "I only hit her once, on top of the nose with my right elbow."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... very dramatic confession...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... confession...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "I think she started to faint. It affected me so that I grabbed her from the neck and strangled her for a minute."
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The mattress on the bed was totally off its box spring.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "So I took my shirt and put it on her face, pressing hard, until I killed Stephany."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Joran Van Der Sloot broke down in tears when he made the confession.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "I thought about what I was doing. What am I going to do now?"
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "In my blind panic, I signed everything but never knew what was written on them."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And tonight, live, Orlando. A security guard, 1:00 AM, gated apartment complex, sees a 4-year-old little boy wandering all alone in a desolate parking lot. When the guard takes the baby back to his apartment, inside, four other children, all home alone. Where`s Mommy? Nearly 4:00 AM, of course, she`s out partying! Mommy gone wild, leaves five babies home alone.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: An Orlando mother has been arrested after she allegedly left her five children home alone to go clubbing. Twenty-nine- year-old Formica Sanders (ph) has been charged with child neglect after police say she left her 12-year-old son in charge of the four other children, who are all under 11 years old. Authorities arrived at the apartment complex early this morning after Sanders`s 4-year-old was found wandering the complex alone. When Sanders returned from the nightclub hours later, not only did she allegedly admit to leaving the kids alone, but she said she does that approximately once a week. DCFS has taken temporary custody of all of Sanders`s children.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Bombshell tonight. Even though two girls already dead at the hands of Joran Van Der Sloot, including one American, with Van Der Sloot suspected in the disappearance of women in Thailand and Colombia, tonight, believe it or not, is judge`s son Joran Van Der Sloot set to walk free?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "I was framed."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He will fight his murder confession.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "I was very scared and confused during the interrogations and wanted to get away."
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: His attorney says, though, he has instructed Van Der Sloot to say his confession to killing 21-year-old Stephany Flores Ramirez was coerced.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "I was confused and just wanted it to end."
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: His due process rights have been violated...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "They kept telling me, If you sign these papers, you`ll be extradited to the Netherlands."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And I believe that confession is a total lie, as well.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "I think I wanted to kill her because I wasn`t thinking."
GRACE: By his own admission to authorities, Joran Van Der Sloot...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... he admitted to killing 21-year-old Stephany Flores Ramirez.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... confessed to the killing of 21-year-old Stephany Flores Ramirez...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... said he took his right elbow and he hit her on the face real hard.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... suffocating her with his own shirt...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There was blood everywhere.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Joran Van Der Sloot potentially set to walk free? We are awaiting word right now to determine whether judge`s son Joran Van Der Sloot, with blood on his hands from two young women, including an American, is set to walk free?
Out to legal correspondent from "In Session" Jean Casarez. Jean, please tell me I`m wrong.
JEAN CASAREZ, "IN SESSION": You`re right. You`re very right. Joran Van Der Sloot is in his cell tonight at Castro Castro prison in Lima, waiting for the superior court to issue its ruling. He hopes that they will say he is being illegally detained under Peruvian law, he will be set free, Nancy.
GRACE: Jean, Jean, Jean! It`s all BS, Jean, everything he`s arguing. He`s arguing, one, he was framed, blah, blah. We hear that a million times out of every jail in America. I was framed, the cops did it, wah-wah, eh- eh! OK. He`s claiming he was framed. He`s claiming his lawyer was sleeping with a cop. He`s claiming the interpreter wasn`t bona fide. He`s got one other claim. What is it, Jean?
CASAREZ: Well, the claims are that the translator was not an official translator...
GRACE: Right.
CASAREZ: ... as he purported to be, and that the lawyer was not a lawyer representing his interests. Those are the two major claims. Also suing the prosecutor and the chief of police.
GRACE: He`s suing the police? Out to Victoria Macchi, freelance journalist joining us out of Lima, live tonight via Skype. Victoria, so he really believes -- and actually has got a leg to stand on. He really believes that his whole confession, the case is going to be thrown out because his then defense attorney, who`s not his lawyer anymore, was sleeping with a cop, so they`re going to throw the whole thing out?
VICTORIA MACCHI, FREELANCE JOURNALIST: Nancy, that`s what we`ve been hearing, and this is something that his current attorney, Maximo Altez Navarro, has been claiming since the very beginning, the two items that have come up over and over again, that his first attorney in those first few days, the one that was present during the confession, was not representing his interests. And second, that the translator was not official.
GRACE: OK. We are taking your calls live. We are getting word. We`re waiting on a ruling right now. If Van Der Sloot wins this, he is set to walk free. This is after the disappearance of American girl Natalee Holloway, blood on his hands -- he even brags he hid the body -- and Stephany Tatiana, the young woman he met as a casino.
Liz, A, welcome back. And B, roll the casino video of Van Der Sloot with Stephany Tatiana in the hours before she died. She was found beaten to a pulp, her eyeball hanging out of the socket, her neck broken. Evidence existing he kicks back and has coffee and a Danish, staring down at her dead body. And tonight, he is set to walk free.
And Jean, can you help me out with this photo that I have obtained? This is Joran Van Der Sloot and a known killer, one of them -- hold on -- I don`t want to catch that blinding light -- one of them an American who killed his Peruvian wife. And they`re all partying? They`re partying behind bars? (INAUDIBLE) "get down" sign? I don`t understand this, Jean. What is this? How does this happen behind bars?
CASAREZ: It`s an amazing photo. It`s from the "Tron (ph)" newspaper there in Lima. And you are right, they are in solitary confinement, each in their own individual cells. We knew they went into the living quarters...
GRACE: Jean! Jean! Jean!
CASAREZ: ... to watch TV together, but there`s a picture -- what?
GRACE: Jean, they`re not in confinement! They`re at some kind of a party. And Joran Van Der Sloot`s posing with them and they`re giving the "rock on" sign!
CASAREZ: That`s because there`s a living room they all go to to watch TV together. We knew that from the very beginning. There used to be two of them, now there`s three of them.
GRACE: And Jean, what more you can tell me about an alleged prison escape masterminded by the judge`s son, Joran Van Der Sloot?
CASAREZ: False.
GRACE: We turn our backs for about three week weeks and all this happens?
CASAREZ: False. We called the public information office for Castro Castro. He laughed at us when we told him this, that this was what was going around. And "The National Enquirer" has been reporting this. You know, since I was at Castro Castro, it would have to be an inside job, Nancy. There`s fence after fence after fence, barbed wire after barbed wire to even get in the facility. So to get out, it would be pretty difficult.
GRACE: Out to the lines. Sue in Illinois. Hi, Sue.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. It`s very nice to speak with you again. Your twins are gorgeous!
GRACE: Likewise. And thank you for the compliment, dear.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My question is, what kind of power does Judge Van Der Sloot from the grave over these people that just kind of keep turning their heads?
GRACE: You know, I don`t understand it, either, Sue. And Sue, let me tell you another action tidbit I`ve just discovered. Remember the Aruban prosecutors were set to fly to Peru to investigate and question Joran Van Der Sloot again about Natalee? Guess what they said? I`m not -- I`m not even embellishing this. They decided that they don`t think Joran Van Der Sloot is in the right mood to be questioned. Go ahead, Jean, explain.
CASAREZ: Well, Maximo Altez told us -- and that`s the lawyer for Joran Van Der Sloot. He told us that he wouldn`t allow any Aruban officials to talk to his client, so that may be the truth.
GRACE: OK, what about it, Rupa Mikkilineni? What you can tell me about what the Aruban prosecutors themselves said?
RUPA MIKKILINENI, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Nancy, they made a request, a little over a month ago, to officially come down to Peru and to interrogate Joran Van Der Sloot. What they have been doing is meeting, going over the evidence in Aruba and trying to strategize as to exactly when is the right timing to go down there and interview him. And this is very crucial. The reason they`re doing this is strategy, Nancy. You know that they need to go town there and speak to him at a time when...
GRACE: I asked you -- I asked you what prosecutors said. So you know what? I`ll have to Q&A with myself. The Aruban prosecutors said they don`t believe Joran Van Der Sloot is in a talking mood. They think he`s in a defensive mood, not a truth-telling mood.
You know what? That`s not the way it works, Steve Stephens, former Alabama state trooper, joining us out of the capital there in Montgomery. You don`t wait until a suspected killer is in a truth-telling mood because they`re never in a truth-telling mood, Steve.
STEVE STEPHENS, RETIRED ALABAMA STATE TROOPER: Most of the time, they`re not going to be, Nancy. In a case like this, the question now has come up about his confession, but what about all the physical evidence you`ve got to hold him on that alone, without the confession? The confession...
GRACE: You`re right, Steve. I don`t know what the Alabama -- Aruban prosecutors are waiting on. This guy`s never going to tell the truth! At least give it a stab, Aruba!
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Prosecutors in Peru are putting together their case against Joran Van Der Sloot.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "I remember what I was doing but not the motive."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Premeditation can be made in the blink of an eye.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He knew he had to flee. He knew he had to leave.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "I feared that she would go to the police and they would detain me for what was an impulsive act."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "I didn`t want to do it. The girl intruded into my private life."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... the Joran Van Der Sloot case...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "I was framed. In my blind panic, I signed everything, but never knew what was written on them."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He`s going to fight this all the way.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They`re not, repeat not, going to need his confession to convict him.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "They kept telling me, If you sign these papers, you`ll be extradited to the Netherlands."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He`s already confessed.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "I think she started to faint. It affected me so that I grabbed her from the neck and strangled her for a minute."
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They already have enough evidence.
JORAN VAN DER SLOOT, (through translator): And one time, Patrick, it was just like in the movies! This is what she did.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was a horrible death for this young lady.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "I was very scared and confused during the interrogations."
GRACE: Oh, boo-hoo!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If he tries to overturn this confession, it`s going to be viewed as obstructive.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are taking your calls live. We are waiting at this moment to hear whether Joran Van Der Sloot is set to walk free. He is now claiming not only that he was framed, but with a list of reasons his case should be thrown out. And believe it or not, the court is actually considering it.
Out to the lines. Portia, in Pennsylvania. Hi, Portia.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. I love the show.
GRACE: Well, thank you, dear. And thank you for calling in. What is your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I actually have two quick questions.
GRACE: OK.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do they actually really need a confession to convict him, even though they found her body in his hotel room, when the only ones that were in there from the cameras being shown were Joran and Stephany?
GRACE: Well, that`s was what Alabama state trooper Steve Stephens was just saying. He`s basically saying, to heck with the confession, they don`t need it. And my point is, why are you waiting for a killer -- a serial killer -- to tell the truth? Because that`s never going to happen. So what`s your part two, Portia?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And my second question is, if from some oddball reason he walks free from this murder, another murder, can America get him on extortion charges, for extorting money?
GRACE: You`re right, Portia. Let`s unleash the lawyers. Joining us out of New York, family law attorney Sue Moss. Miami, international law attorney Hugo Rodriguez. Jason Oshins in New York, defense attorney in multiple jurisdictions.
Weigh in, Sue Moss.
SUSAN MOSS, FAMILY LAW ATTORNEY: This guy is a serial killer! Nobody`s letting Van Der Manson go! But the good news is, he`ll probably confess again the next time he gets into a van. This is somebody who is so dangerous that if we don`t lock him up now, if we don`t make sure that is he is convicted and that there are no procedural loopholes that can get him out, he`s just going to do it again!
GRACE: What about it, Jason Oshins?
JASON OSHINS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Listen, the Constitution of any jurisdiction is not a loophole, and an appellate court is going to look focusedly at particular areas, very different than a trial court. So it`s possible -- however much we hate it, it`s possible that they`re going to let him go.
GRACE: Rodriguez, please...
HUGO RODRIGUEZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: No, he`s not -- he`s not going to...
GRACE: You`re the international law attorney.
RODRIGUEZ: Yes. He`s not going to be...
GRACE: Please tell me Oshins is just doing his usual song and dance, he should walk free thing.
RODRIGUEZ: Love to support him -- love to support him, he`s not going to be set free. First of all, let`s look at the confessions. There were three separate declarations. He was given a court-appointed lawyer. I don`t know who she -- whether -- I`m not getting into the issue of who she sleeps with. But there were three separate -- and they`re smart enough. They were probably recorded. He was also pre-interviewed for 17 hours coming up. So we have all kinds of multiple witnesses.
GRACE: So wait a minute...
RODRIGUEZ: Worst case scenario...
GRACE: If you`ll look, Hugo, each one of those statements that he gave, those confessions, he`s hitting them separately. One, he`s saying, The defense lawyer was forced on me and she was really just a moll for a cop. Another time he says, I signed everything they gave me, but I didn`t know what I was signing. Come on! Sue Moss, if I had a quarter for every time a defendant said, I didn`t know what I was signing, when they signed their confession, I`d be a multi-millionaire, Moss!
RODRIGUEZ: It`s not going to work.
MOSS: Well, that`s absolutely true, but the good news is that there`s also DNA evidence, which are under her fingernails! There`s also a camera right outside his room that saw him going in, her going in, and her never leaving! And there`s...
GRACE: OK, hold on. That`s a good point, Sue Moss. Liz, roll the, let me say, "deer in the headlights" look when he comes out of this room. Look. He`s looking around. There you go. Huh? What, me? He looks right up. And then he tries to go back in with the coffee. Roll that one also, Elizabeth.
OK, Jason Oshins, your turn.
OSHINS: Listen, Nancy, you know, we`re focused in on this statement, and procedurally, whether he has reason to suppress that. But like the officer said, from Alabama, there`s a sufficient amount of evidence, one would think from a prosecutorial perspective, to be able to convict him. That`s what I think.
RODRIGUEZ: He won`t be released. He won`t be released, guys.
GRACE: Go ahead, Rodriguez.
RODRIGUEZ: He won`t be released. And I doubt very seriously that any of these declarations will be suppressed. And then on top of that, they don`t need them. They have enough circumstantial evidence.
OSHINS: Well, that`s the key...
RODRIGUEZ: His only defense -- his only defense would be to testify in his own behalf. And if he did, all the confessions would come in anyway.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sociopaths are manipulative. They can tell you what they want. They can be charming.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... a homicidal maniac...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Total disregard for anyone else except for himself.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He thought he was off the hook. He considered himself as a winner.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He`s not just a liar, he`s a braggart.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Joran Van Der Sloot is fighting his murder confession.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): How do you know she`s dead, Joran?
VAN DER SLOOT (through translator): I just know.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... retracting that confession...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nobody cares about the confession because they`ve got the video, the statement from the hotel clerk.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Stephany he may have killed.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "So I took my shirt and put it on her face, pressing hard, until I killed Stephany."
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is he going to give a different confession and then recant that?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He`s a veteran liar.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You never get a second chance to make a first impression.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That`s going to be his defense, I lied about this because I lie about everything.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: For those of you just joining us, we are waiting word from Peru regarding the release of judge`s son Joran Van Der Sloot. We are taking your calls.
But out to psychologist Dr. Kathryn Smerling, joining us out of New York. What must this be like for the families, specifically the American family of Natalee Holloway? They thought justice was this close, and now it looks like the judge`s son could walk free.
KATHRYN SMERLING, PSYCHOLOGIST: I think that the Holloways and the Flores family are well deserving in their -- in doing whatever they have to do to get -- to get this man behind bars and to pay for all of the -- all of the murders that he has done.
GRACE: Doctor? Doctor?
SMERLING: He cannot...
GRACE: I appreciate that. I agree with you. But what I`m asking you is, what are they going through right now?
(CROSSTALK)
SMERLING: They`re going through torture.
GRACE: ... he could walk -- if he walks in Peru, he`s lost again.
SMERLING: They`re going through...
GRACE: He`ll be gone!
SMERLING: Nancy, I don`t mean to interrupt you. They`re going through their own torture, their own -- their own torture. They`re reliving the death of their girls. They`re reliving the pain that they are feeling on every minute of the day. To lose a child is something which you do not leave behind. It is with you for the rest of your life. It is a daily pain. And I`m sure that this is excruciating for them, and I only wish them -- my heart is with them, I just want to let you know, and I`m sure that most of the world is with them, as well.
GRACE: I agree with you, Dr. Kathryn.
Out to the lines. Nancy in Pennsylvania. Hi, Nancy.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. How are you?
GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I have a question and three observations I think...
GRACE: OK.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... that they should look at. Number one is, how can anyone possibly think that they would throw out the confessions? Because he was legally represented. It was my understanding that there was legal representation there when he made his so-called confession.
GRACE: OK.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And the observations that I would like looked into is, if you look at his eyes, his eyes are absolutely hollow. There is no expression, no feeling, almost like he doesn`t even have a soul. The other thing is the tattoo on his chest. I wonder what that represents. And I`ve forgotten by now what the third one is, but...
GRACE: Well, hold. Hold. We`re going to commercial break, and we`ll address each one of your claims. For those of you just joining us, Joran Van Der Sloot is set to walk free again.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Peruvian authorities may not necessarily believe that Joran Van Der Sloot acted in a moment of rage.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: "I didn`t want to do it. The girl intruded in to my private life".
JEAN CASAREZ, LEGAL CORRESPONDENT, "IN SESSION": Was it premeditated? Was it something that he planned ahead of time? Or was it something that happened at the spur of the moment?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He did confess, but the lawyer would say well, it`s a coerced confession, you can`t believe it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t think they believe it, that`s why they`re going to corroborate everything he said.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Peruvian media are speculating, quote, "His killing was premeditated because it happened on the fifth anniversary of Natalee Holloway`s disappearance".
CASAREZ: We`ve seen pictures of him without his shirt on.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Nothing that suggests that Flores assaulted him.
CASAREZ: When he was getting medical exam, and if you look all over him, there`s really not a scratch on him.
PAT BROWN, CRIMINAL PROFILER, AUTHOR OF "THE PROFILER": He`s a psychopath and he`s going to play the game to the best of his ability so he can get away with as much as he can get away with.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
NANCY GRACE, HOST: We are taking your calls live. We`ve gotten word out of Peru, we are awaiting a decision as to whether the case against judge`s son Joran Van Der Sloot in the murder -- the brutal murder of a Peruvian girl, Stephany Tatiana, is going to be thrown out.
That`s right. Judge`s son Joran Van Der Sloot may be set to walk free yet again.
To Jean Casarez. Let`s go through some of Nancy in Pennsylvania`s questions. Number one, the part about the tattoo on his chest. What does that say? What do those tattoos --
CASAREZ: Don`t ask me that, I don`t know. I was studying it.
GRACE: I don`t either.
CASAREZ: I think it`s in Dutch.
GRACE: OK.
CASAREZ: It`s not something I can read.
GRACE: I couldn`t read it either. OK, Liz, while you can -- there you go. I`ve looked -- what, Ellie? No words. It`s not words. Oh, no worries. It says "no worries".
You know, hakuna matata? No worries.
CASAREZ: That reminds me of another tattoo, Nancy.
GRACE: OK. Yes. Casey Anthony. And Jean, before we answer the rest of Nancy in Pennsylvania`s question, I want to talk about the particulars of the confession that`s on the verge of being tossed by Peruvian judges.
CASAREZ: And that was --
GRACE: Which could leave him walking.
CASAREZ: And Nancy`s questions was one of those. About the confession. He had an appointed attorney. It was an appointed attorney. And he said during an interrogation, no, I want a private attorney, and that is when (INAUDIBLE), the private attorney, came on board.
Listen to this, Nancy. She met with Van Der Sloot alone before the interrogation went forward and she said, look, I got to get paid. I`m a private lawyer. I need money. He said don`t worry, my mother will pay you. Then the interrogation went forward and then the confession.
Nancy, that`s an important little conversation right there.
GRACE: Jean, in the confession, I mean, what are we going to lose? What exactly does he say in the confession?
CASAREZ: Nancy, he gains from the confession. The confession is where he spells it out. Detail by horrible detail of what he does. And we can do into that. But what the confession does for him is a true confession is a mitigator in Lima, Peru and it actually can give him the minimum sentence.
GRACE: "I grabbed her from the neck and strangled her. I had blood on my shirt." In fact, the room was drenched with blood. "I took my shirt and put it on her face pressing hard until I killed Stephany."
At this juncture, the Peruvian president is now seeking the reinstatement of the death penalty in Peru largely because Joran Van Der Sloot, but it`s too late for his case.
Back to Nancy in Pennsylvania`s question. Nancy, what was the rest of your question?
NANCY, CALLER FROM PENNSYLVANIA: The last part of my question is, I`m wondering, he used the phrase mongoloid and I don`t know if anyone ever called him that, but I`m thinking maybe that`s how he sees himself.
GRACE: What about that, Dr. Kathryn Smerling?
KATHRYN SMERLING, PH.D., PSYCHOLOGIST: I say who cares how he sees himself. I think that he was a monster.
GRACE: Yes, you know what? I agree with you.
SMERLING: I mean it`s not important. He was a monster. He acted with impulsivity, with compulsivity. He didn`t think about what he was doing. I don`t believe for a second it was premeditated.
I believe that once he started, he just couldn`t stop. And the hit in the elbow, the whatever else he was doing, this was not premeditated. This was just his rage. He`s a monster.
GRACE: To Dr. Evelyn Minaya, women`s health expert joining us out of New York. Dr. Minaya, thank you for being with us.
Dr. Minaya, you have very carefully reviewed the brutality inflicted on Stephany Tatiana by the judge`s son. Remind us of that. This is what they are on the verge of throwing out of court.
DR. EVELYN MINAYA, M.D., WOMEN`S HEALTH EXPERT: Well, without getting too gory because this is not -- you know, a rated R, but her eye was gouging out. This woman was strangled. Her windpipe was crushed. There was blood everywhere.
Do you know what you have to do in order for you to have blood everywhere all over in the room? That is an arterial bleed, OK? So you can just imagine the brutality of it all. She was bruised from top to bottom.
GRACE: What do you mean arterial bleed?
MINAYA: The arterial, it means that -- that`s the thing that really pumps. So in other words, if it`s slashed, it sprays everywhere as opposed to a vein which is much slower. And that usually is the puddle that you see underneath a body. And remember there was blood everywhere.
GRACE: If Joran Van Der Sloot has his way, he will be free again. Aruban prosecutors making no moves whatsoever to even question him, much less have him extradited to Aruba.
Lynette in Florida -- Linetta in Florida, hi, Linetta.
LINETTA, CALLER FROM FLORIDA: Hi, Nancy. I`d like -- hope you well with your ankle and your two young beautiful boys.
GRACE: Thank you. Thank you very much. It was kind of tough today taking them to gym class with a broken foot, but we all sloughed through.
Go ahead, dear.
LINETTA: I have a two-part question for you. One is, does Peru do any kind of bonding like to bond out? And the other part is, since they have so much DNA evidence, let`s say, you know, he pulls a Van Der Sloot and gets let go because of his ridiculous claims, can`t they re-arrest him for the physical evidence anyway?
GRACE: Good question. First of all, to the first part of her question -- to Hugo Rodriguez, joining us out of Miami, international law attorney. They do have a bonding system, do they not, in Peru?
HUGO RODRIGUEZ, INTERNATIONAL LAW ATTORNEY, FORMER FBI AGENT: They do, but for this charge, it is a non-bondable offense. It`s considered -- same as we would have as a capital offense. He`s not going to make bond.
GRACE: Good to know. What about it, Oshins?
JASON OSHINS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, you know, even if they had bond or not, I mean I don`t think there`s any likelihood that they will release him. I think he`s going to hinge on whether -- on this technicality of the appellate court of whether or not he can get out or not. Otherwise I think he`s facing a long time in jail.
GRACE: And let`s see, that second question from Linetta was -- back to you. What you said, Steve Stephens, retired Alabama state trooper, you`ve seen plenty of cases where you have a confession plus physical evidence. And the confession does get thrown out.
So actually -- to address Linetta in Florida`s question -- they wouldn`t have to re-arrest him if they did throw out the confession. Maybe they could find the physical evidence was strong enough to hold him anyway.
STEVE STEPHENS, RETIRED ALABAMA STATE TROOPER: Well, from what it sounds like from all the newspaper stories that we`re hearing, there`s a ton of physical evidence against him. If they have this case we simply lose the confession, you still go with the physical evidence.
You only lose one part of the leg of the case itself. And it sounds like the physical evidence is very, very strong in this case.
GRACE: Back to Victoria Macchi, journalist joining us via Skype out of Lima, Peru. Certainly Peru must be up in arms at the possibility that he would walk.
VICTORIA MACCHI, FREELANCE JOURNALIST, FROM LIMA PERU, COVERING VAN DER SLOOT STORY: Nancy, obviously no one here actually wants to see this guy out. They -- people have faith in the system. They think that he is actually going to get convicted. Nobody wants to see this guy out.
GRACE: And also back to you, Victoria Macchi, joining us out of Lima. What you can tell me about this photo of Joran Van Der Sloot partying with inmates behind bars? I didn`t know that it was so lax in the prisons there that they could actually have a party.
MACCHI: Right. There is some debate as to whether this is a party or not. What the media down here is reporting, Nancy, is that this was a little get-together when they brought William Trickett Smith, the Pennsylvania man accused of --
GRACE: Victoria, Victoria.
MACCHI: -- killing his wife.
GRACE: I say party, you say get-together. I say tomato, you say tomato. Big deal. How can they have a get-together behind bars when they`re taking photos and having a good time and doing the rock-on symbol and posing for shots? How does that happen?
MACCHI: Right. These three guys are all in their own murder charges and I spoke with Joran`s attorney earlier today. He doesn`t know who took the picture. They`re trying to find out right now who leaked this out and who actually got this on their camera.
GRACE: Well, whoever took it, doesn`t matter now because I`ve got it.
Quick break, everybody. But I want to thank you. You made "Death on the D-List" a "New York Times" best seller. I`m overwhelmed. My proceeds going to a Methodist home for the handicapped.
And on their behalf, we cannot thank you enough. Thank you.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Police say a 29-year-old Florida mom left her five kids home alone so she could go out to the club with her boyfriend. Police were called to an apartment complex in Orlando after a security guard found a 4-year-old boy wandering outside alone.
When police went to the apartment itself, they found four more children all under 13 years old home alone.
The mother Formica Sanders returned a few hours later and was arrested soon after arriving.
Cops say Sanders admitted to leaving the 12-year-old in charge and says she does that about once a week. DCSF has taken custody of the children.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: A little baby wandering along after midnight in a desolate parking lot? The security guard walks the baby home only to find four more children all alone, home alone? Mommy gone wild. Revealing to police she does it every week. Not dragging in until nearly 4:00 a.m.
Out to Drew Petrimoulx, WDBO Radio. She needs to be behind bars in the big doll house. Why is she walking free?
DREW PETRIMOULX, REPORTER, WDBO RADIO: Well, the child -- the charges of child neglect are, you know, the most serious of charges so she was able to bond out. The thing that some people might say is that she has a long criminal history, including grand theft, petty theft, aggravated battery and another grand theft.
No to the mention she`s also been investigated by the DCF before for leaving her kids with -- two of her kids with one of their fathers and then that father left them alone to go off on a burglary spree.
Another time she left her children with one of their fathers and one of the children almost drowned in a pool. So this is not the first time that she`s been in trouble.
GRACE: Whoa. Whoa. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Did you say one of the fathers? How many fathers are we talking about? This sounds like the dating game.
PETRIMOULX: There`s five different fathers for six children. At this point the judge has ordered a DNA test on one of the children to try to see if he does in fact belong to this woman.
GRACE: Wait a minute. You`re saying there`s six children? Because I thought there was the baby wandering alone in the parking lot. What time is the baby in the parking lot?
PETRIMOULX: It was about 1:45 when he was finally found by a security guard who happened to be walking through the parking lot. That`s when he alerted police. They came, went back to the apartment and found four other children in there.
GRACE: That`s only five. Four plus one equals five. You just said six.
PETRIMOULX: There was apparently another child that was with the father at a different location, not staying with the other children at this apartment.
GRACE: Marlaina Schiavo, our producer on the story. Marlaina, what was her excuse? Man, she`s pretty.
MARLAINA SCHIAVO, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER, COVERING STORY: Her excuse is that she left her kids with the older son who was 12 years old and she thought that that was -- that son was old enough to take care of the other children.
GRACE: OK. So her defense is she left all the babies with the 12- year-old. Isn`t it true, Marlaina, she said she does this every week? Where do they go? Out to a night club? Gambling? What?
SCHIAVO: She goes out to nightclubs. She said she went out to a nightclub to meet her boyfriend at about 12:30 in the morning. And she left all the kids with the 12-year-old. But the interesting part is that when the police asked the child -- the 12-year-old -- how would he was, the first couple of times he said he was 15. It sounds like he was a little coached. And then he finally he came clean and said he was 12.
GRACE: So he was trying to lie on behalf of mommy?
SCHIAVO: You got it.
GRACE: Out to the lines. Linda in Maryland, hi.
LINDA, CALLER FROM MARYLAND: Hi, Nancy. I`m just sitting here and my mouth is just -- I`m just --
GRACE: When I think of what could have happened to those children out in a parking lot.
LINDA: I`m telling you --
GRACE: And who`s going to be wheeling up at 1:00 in the morning? Probably somebody drunk.
LINDA: Exactly.
GRACE: Who doesn`t expect to see a baby out in the parking lot. How old was the baby, Drew Petrimoulx, the one in the parking lot?
PETRIMOULX: Four years old. And another thing that I`ll add is this was a pretty rough neighborhood. So to have a 4-year-old child walking around in this neighborhood definitely dangerous.
GRACE: You know, I`ve looked at her. I`ve studied her on the stand and in court. She`s like tossing her hair around like Casey Anthony was doing. Remember how she was pruning and putting on her makeup and getting all fixed up before the cops came into interview her about her daughter`s murder?
What does that suggest to you, Dr. Kathryn Smerling? I noticed in court she`s like adjusting herself, and looking her best. Her five children are alone while she`s out with some boyfriend, I guess, to say euphemistically.
SMERLING: This is clearly a case of child abuse. Child abuse is something more than just bloody eyes and broken bones. This is child abuse. And it should be treated as a serious child abuse case.
She is not -- she has six children, she`s 29, and she can`t take care of -- most adults can`t take care of six children by themselves. And she`s out at night clubs? It`s outrageous and something should be done so the children are in safe homes and they do not have to live in her home anymore because she`s a neglectful parent and to me that`s child abuse.
GRACE: To Drew Petrimoulx, where are the children tonight. Even though she`s bonded out. I wonder what judge allowed that to happen.
But, Drew, where are the children?
PETRIMOULX: The children are in DCF custody right now. They will have to go through some of the relatives want to come in and claim -- take care of some of the children, but obviously DCF is going to have to interview them, meet with the fathers and see if these children can actually be released to --
GRACE: She`s not even upset. We`re showing video of her right now. She`s smiling. Whoa. Whoa. Whoa.
Liz, put it back up and take down the banner. I want to make sure -- no, in her mug shot, Liz. She was smiling. Yes. She`s smiling. OK, you know what? That`s sick.
Donna in Pennsylvania -- hi, Donna, what`s your question?
DONNA, CALLER FROM PENNSYLVANIA: First of all, I`d like to tell you that you`re just a courageous, wonderful woman in our society today. But I sit here today as a 42-year-old health care professional and I`m wondering where are these teachers, where are the physicians, where are the people in the community, someone has to know that these children are home alone?
Someone walking by at whatever time these children were found. No one wants to get involved anymore, Nancy. Everyone`s afraid of their own well- being. It`s our fault, too, as a community.
Someone knew. These fathers want to know where their children are now. Where were they then? Interview them and put them in jail, too. Their children were left with a woman who they knew -- they had to have known, Nancy. They have to have known.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: You know what, Donna in Pennsylvania. You`re right. You`re right. You cannot have everybody deaf, dumb and blind about this. They knew.
And here`s my next question. Unleash the lawyers. Susan Moss, Hugo Rodriguez, Jason Oshins.
To you, Oshins. Take a look between the mugshot and in court. Mommy got a makeover. Mommy has on makeup, has her hair fixed before she`s in court. You want to try and tell me that that`s not eyeliner on her face. So she`s not worried about the children, Oshins, she`s worried about her look.
OSHINS: Nancy, listen --
GRACE: I want to see Oshins.
OSHINS: Yes. I`m a defense attorney but I`m also a father. So obviously it tugs at your heart. But from a defense perspective --
GRACE: I asked you about the eyeliner, didn`t I?
OSHINS: Hey, you got to look good before you go to court, Nancy, you know that.
GRACE: Moss?
OSHINS: You got to look good.
SUSAN MOSS, FAMILY LAW ATTORNEY & CHILD ADVOCATE: I had to bawk when they let her walk. It`s outrageous.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: An Orlando mother has been arrested after she allegedly left her five children home alone to go clubbing. Twenty-nine- year-old Formica Sanders has been charged with child neglect after police say she left her 12-year-old son in charge of the four other children who are all under 11 years old.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are taking your calls live. But back to you, Rodriguez. Eyeliner.
RODRIGUEZ: It was the night after. She just was the morning after her going out clubbing.
GRACE: No, no, no. Because in her mug shot --
RODRIGUEZ: She didn`t get it at --
GRACE: She doesn`t look like that.
RODRIGUEZ: Well, then the girl --
GRACE: She got dolled up for court --
RODRIGUEZ: Then the girls dolled her up before she came in.
GRACE: -- middle of losing her children.
Out to the lines, Michelle in Georgia.
RODRIGUEZ: She got dolled up.
GRACE: Hi, Michelle, what`s your question?
MICHELLE, CALLER FROM GEORGIA: Hi, Nancy.
GRACE: Hi, dear.
MICHELLE: I`m calling -- OK, great. I love what you stand for. I watch your show every day. My question was, I want to know in this particular state, how old can a child be in order to watch children?
GRACE: Good question.
MICHELLE: And how many children can one child keep up with?
GRACE: OK, Sue Moss, what about it?
MOSS: At 12 years old. Maybe she thought if she added up all the children`s ages, it would two to 21. But you got to be at least 15 -- at least 14 or 15 to take care of one child. But when you`re talking about four siblings, it should be older than that.
GRACE: And very quickly, Steve Stephens, you`re a former Alabama trooper. What do you do when you walk into a scene like that? What`s the first thing you do?
STEPHENS: Well, you got a woman here who`s -- this is not careless action. This rises to the level of recklessness. And when you get a situation like that, what the officers have to do first is make sure that there`s not been a crime committed there at the scene itself. And they have to be --
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: And I guess take care of the children.
STEPHENS: And start following up. The kids have to come first.
GRACE: You are seeing a -- you`re right, you`re right, Steve Stephens. Joining us out of Montgomery.
You are seeing a shot of Formica Sanders. Left all her children alone. Mommy gone wild, out partying as her baby wanders a desolate parking lot.
Everybody, let`s stop and remember Army Staff Sergeant Donald Griffith Jr., 29, Mechanicsville, Iowa, killed Iraq. Awarded Bronze Star, Purple Heart, Army Commendation, National Defense Service medals.
Moments before he lost his life he managed to shoot off warning flares to save his whole unit. Remembered as Don Don. Loved family, country, Harleys, leaves behind parents Donald Sr. and Diane, brother Paul, sisters Amanda and Jamie. Widow Stacy.
Donald Griffith Jr., American hero.
Thanks to our guests but especially to you for being with us. And a special good night from Alabama friends, birthday girl and Facebook crime fighter, Mandee and Brooks.
Everybody, I`ll see you tomorrow night. 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.
END
