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Nancy Grace
Son Accused of Murdering Parents on Oregon Farm
Aired September 01, 2010 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight, live, Oregon. An aerospace engineer leaves Silicon Valley with his wife to raise three sons in the Oregon countryside, starting over with his own organic farm. But in a bizarre twist, his attempt to escape the rat race ends in a bloody backfire, Mommy and Daddy found beaten to a pulp there on the grounds of the home they`d titled Abundant Life Farm. Police combing the area.
Bombshell tonight. Police hone in on suspect number one. It`s the couple`s youngest son. At 20 years old, he and his 46-year-old live-in girlfriend hated his parents desperately for disapproving of their son`s much older love match. Well, he won`t have to worry about that now. Mommy and Daddy are dead.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My name is Scott Jondle. And my family, which consists of Marilyn, my wife, and our youngest son, Andrew, who`s almost 19, own and operate Abundant Life Farm.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Polk County sheriff`s office says the couple`s youngest son, Andrew, beat them to death.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There`s always something new.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... his father`s body found in the garage...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s just so peaceful and nice out here.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... his mother in their house.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There`s always something different that comes up.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We got information from family and friends that there had been some relations strained between the father and the son.
GRACE: Twenty-year-old Andrew Jondle arrived home at 2:0 AM with his 46-year-old girlfriend, Cindy Lou Beck.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He sat right here, and he basically curled up a little bit...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s just fun to be able to be part of it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Life never gets dull here.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And tonight, a California man pulls out of his church parking lot in his convertible Mercedes, when suddenly, he`s attacked from behind. Lurking in the back seat, an assailant who stabs him repeatedly in the head, the shoulders, the face. Weapon, an ice pick. Perp, his girlfriend!
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is the woman police say hid in the back seat of her ex-boyfriend`s car. Forty-seven-year-old Elizabeth Cuevas Villanueva (ph) then allegedly used an ice pick like this one to stab her ex repeatedly.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I had no idea she was in the car.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It all happened here at this parking lot of the Messiah Lutheran church in Yorba Linda. The 48-year-old victim had just left a church meeting. As he approached his Mercedes convertible, Villanueva was, according to police, hiding inside, ready to attack. As the victim drove away, Villanueva, police say, stabbed him over and over again with the ice pick in the head and shoulders. It caused the driver to then crash into this tree.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I heard a big commotion.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Shawn Osbourne (ph), who lives across the street from the church, tells me he was at the scene within seconds.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Came out here and we saw the car right here, emergency flashers on, up against this -- I think, against the tree. And we came over here (INAUDIBLE) from across the street. I saw a person lying here.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And that was the guy.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Bombshell tonight. An aerospace engineer leaves Silicon Valley with his wife to raise three sons in the Oregon countryside, starting over with their own organic farm. But then in a bizarre twist, Mommy and Daddy found beaten to a pulp there on the grounds of the home they titled Abundant Life Farm. Suspect number one, the couple`s youngest son, 20 years old, and his 46-year-old live-in girlfriend.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He was shaking really bad.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Scott and Marilyn Jondle...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... and our youngest son, Andrew.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... a 210-acre refuge they called the Abundant Life Farm.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We`ve been out here since 2000.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... beat them to death...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was working in a cubicle. I was kind of ready for a change.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... body found in a garage...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I just thank God every day that I get to be out here and enjoying his creation.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: David Powell (ph) lives two doors away from that apartment searched by police.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... curled up a little bit and had a hoodie on.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, this time of the year is kind of a fun time of the year.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Authorities decided to charge Andrew`s girlfriend.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Forty-six-year-old girlfriend, Cindy Lou Beck.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... with hindering (ph) prosecution.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... the son, who was located at his apartment in South Salem...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) try it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are taking your calls live, but right now, live to Portland, Lacey Evans with KXL Newsradio. Lacey, it`s very hard to take in. This guy was brilliant, an aerospace engineer. He leaves the rat race, leaves a very lucrative job raking in the money in Silicon Valley to start all over, founding an organic farm out in Oregon. What the hey went wrong?
LACEY EVANS, KXL NEWSRADIO (via telephone): Yes, it`s a very shocking case, Nancy. What we know is that police say Andrew Jondle went to his parents` farm sometime very late Monday night, early Tuesday morning. He waited there and he hid on the property. He allegedly beat his father -- excuse me, stabbed his father to death and then beat his mother to death and stole some credit cards and some jewelry from them. Apparently, they were fighting over...
GRACE: Whoa! Wait! Wait! Wait!
EVANS: ... his relationship with a much older woman.
GRACE: Wait! Wait! Wait, Lacey! The picture you`re seeing right now is not the mother or the grandmother in this case. That is the live-in lover there on the left. Oh, yes, that`s 46-year-old Cindy Lou Beck! I don`t know what she`s got, people, but she`s got something that helped drive this 20-year-old boy to murder! Back to you, Lacey Evans. Go ahead.
EVANS: Yes, we do know that they were living together, but apparently, they were having money troubles and that is why -- part of the reason he was fighting with his parents, and he allegedly stole some jewelry and some credit cards from them.
GRACE: OK, Lacey, I`m just having a hard time taking it in. Ellie Jostad, this the right picture, right? That`s the guy. That`s the young 20-year-old man, Andrew Jondle...
ELLIE JOSTAD, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Right.
GRACE: ... the couple`s youngest son.
JOSTAD: Right.
GRACE: And let me see Cindy Lou Beck, the 46-year-old -- there. Yes. OK. Ellie...
JOSTAD: Right.
GRACE: ... Ellie, Ellie, do I have the right picture?
JOSTAD: You`ve got the right picture.
GRACE: The 20-year-old is shacked up with this?
JOSTAD: That`s right, Nancy. And this is actually...
GRACE: And he killed for this?
JOSTAD: Yes. Well, as soon as this happened, as soon as the bodies were discovered -- it was a delivery man delivering water to the farm that actually found the father lying there dead. Later, the mother was found in the kitchen. Both of them dead.
Apparently, as soon as police talking to family and friends, they said there was an ongoing dispute between the parents, especially the father, and son over money, and they believe that was the motive here, that this couple had a lot of back rent, they had money trouble and that they...
GRACE: Hold on! Ellie! Ellie!
JOSTAD: Yes?
GRACE: I want the viewers to know -- Liz, roll that back for me. You are seeing the boy`s mom. You are seeing Marilyn Zhondle (SIC). There`s the father, Scott.
JOSTAD: Yondle.
GRACE: Yondle? OK, thank you. There they are. They left Silicon Valley to raise their three boys in a more bucolic rural setting, starting a pretty successful organic farm that they named Abundant Life. In the last hours, their bodies have been found beaten to a pulp. What was the murder weapon, Ellie Jostad?
JOSTAD: Well, Nancy, we were originally told that it was some type of galvanized metal pipe. Now, just right before the show, we learned that Scott Jondle, the father, was also stabbed multiple times with a scythe.
GRACE: OK, I want to welcome back to the show my very brave friend, Dr. Caryn Stark, psychologist, joining us out of New York.
CARYN STARK, PSYCHOLOGIST: Hi, Nancy.
GRACE: Caryn, I can honestly say I don`t think that I`ve been so happy in a long, long time.
STARK: Thanks, Nancy. It`s good to see you, too.
GRACE: Welcome back. OK, Caryn, did you see this love match? What does she have that drove this 20-year-old so crazy, he would kill his own parents? And it`s not shooting from a distance, Caryn Stark, like you`re 30 feet away, you`re shoot. You`re very antiseptic. It`s a laboratory condition. He stabbed his father in a frenzy. He beat his mother with that pipe. Show me the pipe, Liz. He beat her about the face and head there in their own home. Why, Caryn Stark?
STARK: Nancy, first of all, an answer to your question about what would be the appeal of an older woman, it`s not unusual...
GRACE: I didn`t say older. I did not say older. You know, I`m thinking of Demi -- excuse me, Demi Moore. You know, there are plenty of wonderful older women. You know, hey, I`m an older woman. I`m putting it out there. But I don`t understand. You kill your parents for this?
STARK: Well, I`m sure that he did not kill his parents for this that something much more than this was going on, especially if you take a look, Nancy -- I mean, we`re not talking about fact that he stood at a distance and he shot them. This is physical contact, true aggression. So he wanted to watch them suffer and be in pain. It had to be more than the fact that they disapproved of this older woman. It had to be.
GRACE: They also stole from them.
Out to the lines. Tammy in Georgia. And everyone, the livestock and the farming scene that you`re seeing is, in fact, the farm where police (INAUDIBLE) police investigators find two dead bodies. They are Scott and Marilyn Jondle. There you are seeing the farm itself. There is the couple who intentionally leave Silicon Valley, leave a high-paying job to go start all over on an organic farm, only to be beaten to death in their own home by their own son!
Tammy in Georgia, what`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, ma`am. First, I want to tell you your twins are beautiful!
GRACE: Thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you think -- you`re welcome. Do you think that this son killed the parents for the insurance policy?
GRACE: I think it`s a good -- a good bet, Tammy in Georgia. And I also know that -- and I`m going to go back to you, Ellie, on this -- that jewelry and items from the home were found in the son`s apartment. So he also...
JOSTAD: That`s right.
GRACE: ... not only pulverized the parents with an iron pipe, stabbing them, you know, frenetically, he also stole from them. But I`m telling you, there was a long-simmering dispute over his affair with his live-in, a 46-year-old -- and I`m telling you, if John David, my son, ever jumps up and says, Mom, I`m shacking up with a lady your age, you know what? I`m going to say, You know what, son? I`d be mad if you didn`t. You know what? Go. Go. I`ll buy you a set of towels for your new apartment. I`m not going to say no. I`m going to just -- go.
Go ahead, Ellie. What was stolen?
JOSTAD: OK, that`s right, Nancy. Police say that in the home that this young -- well, the son and his older girlfriend shared, they did find credit cards, cash, jewelry belonging to the parents. Now, we don`t know about insurance policy at this point. But police say they do believe money the motive here.
GRACE: For those of you just joining us, in a very bucolic rural setting there in Oregon, a high-profile engineer leaves the good life to start all over to raise his son in the countryside. They have been found dead, mother and father, in their own home, brutally beaten to death. Suspect number one, his own son!
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We got information from family and friends that there had been some relations strained between the father and the son. And that led us to the son, who was located at his apartment in South Salem.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s a place...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... about 210 acres...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We found this farm and sold our place in California and...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... called the Abundant Life Farm.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We`re going to try it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sometime Monday night, the Polk County sheriff`s office says the couple`s youngest son, Andrew...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... our youngest son, Andrew...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... seen here in a photograph with his parents -- beat them to death.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... which kind of makes life a challenge.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There had been some relations strained between the father and the son.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was kind of ready for a change.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What could have gone wrong between a son and parents who seemed so kind?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... and he basically curled up a little bit.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We`re looking for something to do different so that we could involve the family.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He was shaking really bad.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s just so peaceful and nice out here and...
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: The bodies found in the kitchen and garage there in the home of the Abundant Life Farm. After police comb the scene and investigate, they narrow it down to one murder suspect, the couple`s own son. In a bizarre twist, trying to raise their family in a rural countryside setting, they end up bludgeoned and stabbed to death in their own home by their 20- year-old son.
We are taking your calls live, but now unleash the lawyers -- Susan Moss, family law attorney, Anne Bremner, high-profile lawyer, Seattle, Randy Kessler, defense attorney, Atlanta. Hit me, Sue Moss.
SUSAN MOSS, FAMILY LAW ATTORNEY: What`s his excuse? His father was a curmudgeon so his family he then bludgeoned? This is a double homicide. It deserves nothing less than the full extent of the law! This is a death penalty state, and I think that`s exactly what this kid`s going to get!
GRACE: You are looking right now at Andrew Jondle, 20-year-old son, the youngest son of Scott and Marilyn Jondle, the parents of three adult sons, the owners of Abundant Life Farm who left the good life in Silicon Valley to chase the dream of a rural upbringing for their three boys.
OK, Anne Bremner, I`ve been waiting all day to hear you give me your defense.
(LAUGHTER)
ANNE BREMNER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, you know, we don`t have enough facts right now, Nancy -- I don`t -- to formulate what his best defense would be. Obviously, it`s not self-defense with something like this. I think the issue really here is, in Oregon, they have the death penalty. They`ve had it since `04 -- or 1904, and they`ve only had 60 such cases. So out here in my neck of the woods, you don`t see as many death penalty decisions and prosecutions. But because that`s really what he`s looking at, if, indeed, he`s the perp, and the one that they believe has done it and...
GRACE: Put Bremner up!
BREMNER: (INAUDIBLE) his girlfriend...
GRACE: Anne! Anne!
BREMNER: I`m here! I`m here!
GRACE: Their jewelry, their money, their possessions were found at his apartment.
BREMNER: It looks bad.
GRACE: They found the murder weapon, a pipe. He bludgeoned -- think about it, Anne, if you think can bring yourself to think about it.
BREMNER: I know.
GRACE: I know how close you are to your parents. Put up Bremner! Think about it.
BREMNER: I am.
GRACE: Make yourself...
BREMNER: Oh, my God, it`s just...
GRACE: ... think about a pipe hitting a mother`s face! Think about it.
BREMNER: It`s unthinkable. It`s unthinkable. It`s just completely unthinkable. And maybe...
GRACE: OK, Kessler.
BREMNER: ... that`s what this is all about.
RANDY KESSLER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: When you talk about faces, look at the face the girlfriend, and you got to transfer the anger of the jury to somebody else. Somebody made him do it and...
GRACE: Somebody that wasn`t even on the scene at the time?
KESSLER: Well, you know what...
GRACE: But, like, some kind of mind control, Kessler, is that what you`re saying, Stockholm syndrome?
KESSLER: No, this is -- maybe there`s some psychological issues for sure. You know, and he`s 20 years old. He`s impressionable. When he was 10, this lady was 36. So you know what? He did something for her for whatever reason, some sort of weird psychological...
GRACE: Wait! Wa-wa-wa-wa-wa-wait! So his defense is he was dating, he was shacked up with a married woman...
KESSLER: No, I think that`s...
GRACE: ... excuse me, an older woman?
KESSLER: I think that`s proof that he might have been crazy, not that she was older, but look at her. And what kind of influence did she have on him?
GRACE: Put him up! Put him up, Kessler -- put Kessler up.
KESSLER: I`m here.
GRACE: You know, Randy, not all of us are lucky enough to be born as handsome as you are.
KESSLER: Thank you.
GRACE: So you know, let`s try not to cast stones at those that you perceive to be not as attractive as others, OK? That has absolutely nothing to do with this.
KESSLER: It`s -- it`s not...
GRACE: And if the defense attorney tries to boil it down to something so trite...
KESSLER: It wasn`t...
GRACE: ... he or she`s going to be in a heap of trouble. Back to the lines. Tracey in Tennessee.
KESSLER: OK.
GRACE: Hi, Tracey.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. How are you doing?
GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: First I want to tell you that I think the world of you and your twins. And my question is, I`m wanting to know if maybe he has any kind of mental problems in his past, like in his childhood, and also if he has any drug addictions.
GRACE: Good question. To Lacey Evans, reporter with KXL Newsradio joining us tonight out of Portland. What do we know about this guy? He`s not a kid. He`s 20 years old. What do we know, Lacey?
EVANS: We don`t know a lot, unfortunately. We know he moved here with his parents when he was 10. We don`t know when he started dating this older woman, but we do know that they`ve been dating for at least a few months. That`s how long they lived together. And we do know that they were having money troubles, which police (ph) was possibly the motive for these murders.
GRACE: Yes, dating is putting it euphemistically, Lacey Evans. She had been working her charms on him for some time, shacked up together. This is the face of a woman now charged with conspiracy to commit murder, her 20-year-old boyfriend charged two counts murder one.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He sat right here, and he basically curled up a little bit and had a hoodie on and just -- he was shaking really bad.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I would look out the window at work and say, Boy, I`d love to be outside, especially on a nice summer day.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We raise cattle.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... beat them to death...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We raise pigs.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... relations strained...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We raise lamb.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... between the father and the son...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My name is Scott Jondle.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Twenty-year-old Andrew Jondle...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s always nice to get out here in the sunshine.
GRACE: ... forty-six-year-old girlfriend Cindy Lou Beck.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We`re looking for something to do different.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s something that we look forward to each day.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... his father`s body found in a garage, his mother in their house.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We try to mimic what nature dictates.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: You are just seeing footage of the murder victims. That would be Scott and Marilyn Jondle. They left the good life in Silicon Valley, raking in tons of money, to raise their boys in a more bucolic setting. It all ended in a deadly backfire when their two bodies were found in the kitchen and garage of their own home, brutally beaten with a pipe, stabbed to death. And now suspect one, their youngest son.
Nate Rafn, executive producer of "Living Culture" -- it`s an Oregon TV show. He interviewed the Jondles. Nate, thank you so much for being with us. Tell us what you know about them and their family.
NATE RAFN, EXECUTIVE PRODUCER OF "LIVING CULTURE" (via telephone): I`ve known the Jondles for a few years now. Scott and Marilyn are very -- were very kind, generous people. They were honest. They were hard- working. And they were living out their dream in coming here to raise livestock and to live a life of self-sufficiency.
GRACE: They just seem like such good people, and their lives almost seem like a dream. I don`t understand. And some these shots that you provided us tonight have the suspect, Andrew Jondle, in the shots with his parents.
RAFN: Well, and that`s one of the most shocking things about this, is that they lived on a very peaceful and beautiful farm, and for something like this to happen, it`s just so baffling.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAVID JONDLE, FOUND MURDERED IN HOME: My name is Scott Jondle. And my family, which consists of Marilyn, my wife, and our youngest son, Andrew, who`s almost 19, own and operate Abundant Life Farm.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Polk County Sheriff`s Office says the couple`s youngest son Andrew beat them to death.
D. JONDLE: There`s always something new.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: His father`s body found in a garage.
MARILYN JONDLE, FOUND MURDERED IN HOME: It`s just so peaceful and nice out here.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: His mother in their house.
D. JONDLE: There`s always something different that comes up.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`ve got information from family and friends that there had been some relations strained between the father and the son.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Twenty-year-old Andrew Jondle arrived home at 2:00 a.m. with his 46-year-old girlfriend, Cindy Lou Beck.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She sat right here and he basically curled up a little bit.
M. JONDLE: It`s just fun to be able to be part of it.
D. JONDLE: Life never gets dull here.
M. JONDLE: We eat like kings. We enjoy wonderful, good food because we don`t give any antibiotics or hormones or anything to our animals. We don`t even vaccinate them. And they`re all doing, you know, marvelously on -- the grass that God made. So it`s just fun to be able to be part of it. And so we enjoy it.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
NANCY GRACE, HOST: We are going back to Nate Rafn, executive producer of "Living Culture." It`s an Oregon TV show. And he`s responsible for all this footage of the two murdered victims including the murdered suspect, their son, Andrew Jondle.
Nate, are you with me?
NATE RAFN, EXECUTIVE PRODUCER OF LIVING CULTURE, HAS INTERVIEWED MURDERED COUPLE: Yes, I`m here.
GRACE: Nate, explain to me why is it that they chose to leave this very lucrative lifestyle in Silicon Valley -- he`s an aerospace engineer. What do they hope to accomplish with their three sons out in the Oregon countryside?
RAFN: Well, what attracted them here was the scenery. It was the ability for them to work outdoors, to do something that they enjoyed doing, and to have a family business.
GRACE: Hmm. How do the sons strike you when you talked to him, when you interviewed him and the parents?
RAFN: Andrew has always come across to me as a very bright young man. He always had a smile on his face. And he was very polite. And whenever I would talk with Andrew about what he was doing on the farm, he was always very knowledgeable about the operation and he seemed to enjoy it.
GRACE: To Pat Brown, criminal profiler, author of "The Profiler." This is a shocker. These parents give their sons everything they can, the best possible upbringing. Raised them in an area far away from the rat race and crime statistics.
And yet they fall prey to violent crime themselves. Their son behind bars tonight for the murder of his mother and father.
Pat, could you see it coming?
PAT BROWN, CRIMINAL PROFILER, AUTHOR OF "THE PROFILER": Well, here`s what I guess happened. They thought they moved from hell to heaven but they brought the little demon with them.
In other words, he was 10 years old -- Andrew was 10 when he moved. He moved from a city area, probably didn`t have lots of responsibilities. And now he`s suddenly moved out into a farm where he has to do a lot of stuff.
And if he`s already psychopathic he`s going to resent that responsibility and that extra workload and that may be where his antagonism toward his family started against his parents. You made me do all these. You took me away from my friends, and you make me work and work and work, and he`s built that anger up over the time.
GRACE: But what about the way that he murdered them? Not only the way, but the fact that he did murder them, but the way he did it so intimately, beating them?
BROWN: That`s rage.
GRACE: Beating them about the face and head with a pipe and a sith.
BROWN: Exactly. That`s a lot of rage that has built up over time and I say he`s not -- he doesn`t have a normal personality. We`re talking about a personality disorder so it`s already been there for -- you know, for years but this where it finally expressed himself when he felt like he wanted to get back at them for all the things that they had done to him including saying he shouldn`t be with his rural girlfriend.
GRACE: OK. To Paul Penzone, VP at Prevention Programs at Childhelp.org, former sergeant, Phoenix PD.
Weigh in, Paul.
PAUL PENZONE, DIRECT OF PREVENTION PROGRAMS, CHILDHELP.ORG, FMR. SERGEANT, PHOENIX PD: You know I`m looking at the picture, Nancy, I`m not sure the time frame from when he was photographed on that show until now, but my gut feeling when you talk about how intimate this crime was is, I`m fearful there`s a substance issue because he looks very pique and very thin.
A lot older in that shot there. I don`t know where that picture came from. But it`s either emotional or substance abuse but that was a very violent, upclose and personal crime. And if it was about him, you know, being upset he would try to hide those other items that he stole because he wouldn`t want it to be tied to him.
Otherwise, this was about money which tells me there`s some other issues going on beyond him just struggling.
GRACE: And to Dr. Leigh Vinocur, University of Maryland School of Medicine.
Dr. Vinocur, it`s great to have you with us.
DR. LEIGH VINOCUR, M.D., UNIVERSITY OF MARYLAND SCHOOL OF MEDICINE: Thanks very having me.
GRACE: Dr. Vinocur, the time it would have taken for someone to die of a beating injury, it`s not a quick thing.
VINOCUR: Well, yes, it depends, you know how -- where the blows were first. A very big blow to the head. But you`re right, it`s depending on where it was in the brain. Would depend on that. But if he was beaten in other places first it could be very painful and take a while so --
GRACE: And from what I`m hearing about the injury, Dr. Vinocur, the father at least put up a fight.
The mother and father found dead in their own home in the garage and the kitchen. Now chief suspect, their own son, their youngest son who had been for months shacked up with a 46-year-old woman. It was a relationship the parents disapproved of vehemently.
So Dr. Vinocur, it seems like the father put up more of a fight.
VINOCUR: Well, yes, I`m sure, you know, he was struggling. I mean, unless you give a huge blow to the back of the head from behind and a person doesn`t know what hits them, I`m sure it was a struggle and a fight so --
GRACE: We are --
VINOCUR: But they`ll find all that on --
GRACE: We are taking your calls live, everybody. But right now we`re switching. I want to take you live out to L.A. A man gets in his car, into his Mercedes convertible -- that`s important. And as he drives out of church parking lot, he is attacked from behind.
Weapon? An ice pick. Can you imagine that? Did you ever see "Fatal Attraction"? The perpetrator, his girlfriend.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: It all happened here in this parking lot of the Messiah Lutheran Church in Yorba Linda.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: A man got into his car after having attended a Lutheran church and was attacked by his ex-girlfriend.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Forty-seven-year-old Elizabeth Cuevas Villanueva then allegedly used an ice pick like this one to stab her ex repeatedly. The 48-year-old victim had just left the church meeting. As he approached his Mercedes convertible Villanueva was, according to police, hiding inside, ready to attack.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: She stabbed him in the back, the neck and the back of the head.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: As the victim drove away Villanueva, police say, stabbed him over and over again with the ice pick. It caused the driver to then crash into this tree.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Authorities aren`t saying what the motive was. Obviously, we can speculate that she was some kind of lover who had been scorned.
SEAN OSBOURNE, EYEWITNESS TO ATTACK: Before the police got here, I was in my house watching television. And I heard a big commotion.
I came out here we saw that car right here. The emergency flashers on up against this -- I think against the tree. And we came over here --
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Why is it the man always say it was a woman scorned. We don`t know what happened.
To Debra Mark, anchor of Talkradio 790 KABC. What did happen, Debra Mark? He gets into his car. I don`t know how she could hide in the backseat in a Mercedes convertible without being spotted but she managed to. And then started stabbing him in the face, the neck, and the head with an ice pick?
DEBRA MARK, ANCHOR, TALKRADIO 790 KABC: That`s right. He didn`t see it coming. He got into his car. She allegedly jumped out from the backseat. Started stabbing him. He crashed into that tree.
They both jumped out of the car. They ran in different directions. She allegedly dropped the ice pick close by. And then ran away a few blocks away and that`s where she was arrested.
GRACE: To Dennis Romero, staff writer, "L.A. Weekly," what more can you tell me, Dennis?
DENNIS ROMERO, STAFF WRITER, L.A. WEEKLY: Well, the suspect Elizabeth Villanueva is being held in Orange County jail on $1 million bail. What I`m told is they lived in a pretty nice upper middle-class neighborhood. They still live together although they had broken up four months ago.
GRACE: So they were still living together even though they were split, Dennis?
ROMERO: Yes. It sounds like if -- you know she`s the suspect who did it that maybe he made a mistake in not making a clean break.
GRACE: Yes -- yes, I think that was a little mistake. Quick break, everybody. We`re taking your calls. Could you imagine getting into your car and being attacked from behind in the night with an ice pick? That`s what happened. Perpetrator, his girlfriend.
Very quickly, to tonight`s case alert. A hostage situation at the HQ of Discovery Channel. Just ended. After suspect James Lee shot dead by authorities. Silver Spring, Maryland.
Lee enters the building early in the afternoon, wearing what appeared to be an explosive device. Brandishing a handgun. Three hostages rescued. Suspect, killed by cops after pointing his gun at a hostage.
Lee had been linked to detailed manifestos taking issue into Discovery Channel and during negotiations was demanding to meet with the executives.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: This is the woman, police say, hid in the backseat of her ex-boyfriend`s car. Forty-seven-year-old Elizabeth Cuevas Villanueva then allegedly used an ice pick, like this one, to stab her ex repeatedly.
We`re told Villanueva ran from the vehicle, police eventually catching her down the street. Her ex-boyfriend transported to a local hospital.
It all happened here in this parking lot of the Messiah Lutheran Church in Yorba Linda. The 48-year-old victim had just left a church meeting. As he approached his Mercedes convertible, Villanueva was, according to police, hiding inside ready to attack.
As the victim drove away, Villanueva, police say, stabbed him over and over again with the ice pick in the head and shoulders. It caused the driver to then crash into this tree.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are taking your calls. Out to Kimberly in Arizona. Hi, Kimberly.
KIMBERLY, CALLER FROM ARIZONA: Hi, how are you?
GRACE: I`m good, dear, what`s your question?
KIMBERLY: really quick, congratulations on the success of your book.
GRACE: Thank you.
KIMBERLY: And do we know of any reports, past or present, regarding either one of them on mental or physical abuse?
GRACE: Good question. To Sergeant Bill Smyser with the Brea Police Department joining us in California.
Sergeant, thank you for being with us. What do we know about their history? Had there been any domestic calls or any other disturbances that we know of?
SGT. BILL SMYSER, BREA POLICE DEPARTMENT: No other disturbances from either of them and no prior history of any violence on either subject.
GRACE: You know that`s pretty radical, Sergeant Smyser. It reminds me "Fatal Attraction." You know with Glen Close and Michael Douglas.
And -- for most of you just joining us, a guy gets in his car, a Mercedes convertible. He`s leaving the church parking lot when an assailant jumps from behind who`s been hiding down in the backseat, crouched down, to attack him with an ice pick.
Caryn Stark, psychologist, relationships are your expertise. Help me out, Caryn. An ice pick.
CARYN STARK, PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, but you know, Nancy, what`s interesting is that she didn`t take a knife. She took an ice pick. It`s as though she wanted to hurt him but she wasn`t really invested in it because an ice pick -- unless you really know what you`re doing would enter a person but wouldn`t necessarily kill them.
GRACE: You know what, Caryn Stark, an ice pick doesn`t strike me that way. I think that they look vicious. I think they look evil. I hate ice picks.
How could you even say that? How could you say to slash somebody, to stab somebody in the head with an ice pick? They`re not invested in the outcome?
STARK: Well, I`m not sure. I mean, she clearly is not a normal person. There`s something that`s psychopathic about her.
GRACE: OK. You know what, Caryn Stark?
STARK: Yes, Nancy.
GRACE: I know that I gave you a little vacation there but you`re going to do a little bit better than she`s not normal. I know she`s not normal.
Hold on. Sue Moss, Anne Bremner, Randy Kessler.
OK, Anne Bremner, there you go. What do you think was running through her mind as she`s crouched down in the backseat for a couple of hours while her boyfriend`s in church, of all places? So she gets stab him in the head, in the face with an ice pick.
Think about it, Bremner. What`s your defense?
ANNE BREMNER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: It`s unbelievable. It`s -- you know, it`s unbelievable. The only -- you know, that is --
GRACE: It happened, Anne. It happened.
(CROSSTALK)
BREMNER: She`s mad. She`s mad but I`ll tell you one thing. If it was a knife, she wouldn`t be held on $1 million bail and she wouldn`t be on THE NANCY GRACE SHOW.
So the ice pick, creepy, we see it in the screen, that`s what`s really getting this out there. But really what she did is she got mad at her boyfriend and started to stab him. Did she intend to kill him?
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Wait a minute. You know, Kessler, Kessler.
RANDY KESSLER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes.
GRACE: Whatever happened to egging the front door and slashing the tires? What happened to that? When did stabbing the boyfriend in the head with an ice pick come in vogue?
KESSLER: You know what, this isn`t new --
GRACE: Why can`t she just like throw some paint on his door? What happened to that?
KESSLER: It went out of the door a long time ago with Lorena Bobbitt who did, you know, even worse than this. So, you know, there are going to be a lot of guys who dump girlfriends who are going to be looking in their backseats tonight when they get in their cars.
GRACE: Sue Moss, weigh in.
SUSAN MOSS, FAMILY LAW ATTORNEY & CHILD ADVOCATE: She didn`t want to be alone so she became a clone of Sharon Stone. An ice pick. Really? That`s so `80s.
GRACE: OK, Dr. Vinocur. When Caryn Stark says she wasn`t invested in the outcome of this attack, an ice pick is lethal. What could have happened?
VINOCUR: Yes, it can be. He was actually pretty lucky. I mean if it penetrated his skull --
GRACE: He`s alive.
VINOCUR: If it -- right. If she was stabbing him in the neck and it hit his carotid arteries, you could do a significant amount of damage with an ice pick. And it`s easier to handle than a knife, actually, because it`s just, you know, one simple motion. The knife has a blade and an angle, and -- he`s lucky that he didn`t get --
GRACE: He`s lucky to be alive.
Caryn Stark, what`s really creeping me out is take a look at this woman, Caryn. I mean, under the right circumstances, she`s going to look normal, attractive. I can see her dressed up, going out. Have the hair, the makeup, the jewelry.
STARK: That`s not unusual.
GRACE: You know, looking absolutely normal.
STARK: But that`s -- isn`t that always the case?
GRACE: Yes. And --
STARK: You know the person next door. The normal-looking person. The one you would never expect.
GRACE: Explain to me how your emotions get so out of whack that you think the answer is stabbing someone in the face with an ice pick?
STARK: Well, you know, Nancy, she had all those months living with him. For this rage to be building up. And I don`t know what kind of feelings of abandonment she may had been coping with. She doesn`t feel to me like somebody who can handle anything --
GRACE: Caryn, Caryn, Caryn --
STARK: Yes, Nancy.
GRACE: Is there anybody on the show tonight that has never been dumped? I mean, broken up with, dumped, dumped, flat-out, canned. It`s happened to everybody on the face of the earth. You don`t see us wielding a knife -- an ice pick, Caryn Stark.
So please don`t come at me with "feelings of abandonment" thing. All right? That`s not working.
STARK: Well, but, Nancy, when you`re a psychopath, then you`re not -- it`s like sort of like saying, why don`t people don`t people get divorced instead of murdering your spouse?
GRACE: You`re right. You`re right. You`re right. You got me on that, Caryn Stark.
Sharon in Kentucky, hi, Sharon.
SHARON, CALLER FROM KENTUCKY: Hi, how are you, Nancy?
GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s your question?
SHARON: Well, first of all, we just -- my mom and I watch you every night. You`re just our angel. You know?
GRACE: You know what, Sharon, I want to thank you for watching and for calling in. And please pass that on to your mom.
SHARON: OK.
GRACE: Appreciate that. What`s your question, love?
SHARON: Well, my question would be, is there a child involved?
GRACE: Good question. Back out to Sergeant Bill Smyser. What about it, Sergeant?
SMYSER: No children involved.
GRACE: Man. OK. So all of this was over their relationship? There`s not any children involved. They probably don`t own joint property. They`re not fighting over custody.
So, Sergeant, what did she say when she was arrested?
SMYSER: You know, I wasn`t privy to any of that conversation, unfortunately.
GRACE: You are taking a look at Elizabeth Villanueva, the ex- girlfriend of the victim she nearly stabbed to death, lying in wait in the backseat of a Mercedes convertible for hours while he attended church. When he left that evening, out she sprang with nothing else but an ice pick.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: A man got into his car after having attended a Lutheran church and was attacked by his ex-girlfriend.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: As the victim drove away, Villanueva, police say, stabbed him over and over again.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: She stabbed him in the back, the neck, and the back of the head with an ice pick.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are taking your calls live out to Evahlina in Florida. Hi, dear.
EVAHLINA, CALLER FROM FLORIDA: Hi, Nancy.
GRACE: What`s your question?
EVAHLINA: My question is that, if she had succeeded in killing him, if that`s what her intentions were, which I believe they were, was there any money involved or anything or any -- like a will or anything like that?
GRACE: Good question. What do we know, Debra Mark?
MARK: They broke up four months ago. So they`re not boyfriend and girlfriend anymore. They`d been living together for some unknown reason, I guess as friends. But as far as I know, there isn`t any type of will or any other things that she would have wanted from him.
GRACE: Debra, did she give any statements? Do we know of anything she said or that the victim said?
MARK: Police have not released any of that information. In fact, when I spoke to a sergeant today, he said they have no clue why she did this. Again, no prior arrests. No domestic violence on either side. Neither one of them have been in any kind of trouble. It`s really bizarre.
GRACE: It is. Debra Mark, joining us from 790 KABC there in L.A.
To Cassandra in Iowa, hi, Cassandra. What`s your question?
CASSANDRA, CALLER FROM IOWA: Hi, Nancy.
GRACE: Hi, love.
CASSANDRA: Obviously listening to this case, it sounds like it`s a premeditated murder. I was just wondering if police are interviewing friends and family members about, you know, hearing anything about previous anger? If they heard anything prior to the accident.
GRACE: Paul Penzone, do you think anything like that would have cropped up during the police investigation?
PENZONE: I believe there`s a strong probability. I mean this -- it doesn`t take prior acts necessarily to lead to something as violent as this. It could be strictly emotional.
GRACE: You know what, you`re right, Paul. We always look at the history. And when there`s not one, we`re always puzzled. But these facts have left little to the imagination.
Let`s stop and remember Army Staff Sergeant Samuel Castle, 26, Naples, Texas, killed, Iraq, on a second tour. Awarded Bronze Star, Purple Heart, loved sports, fishing, remembered for a huge heart, protecting and providing for his family and love of all things Texas.
Leaves behind parents, Della and James, brother Antoine, sister Wankie (ph), widow, Nicole, son Sammy, daughter Samalia (ph).
Samuel Castle, American hero.
Thanks to our guests, but especially to you. And a special goodnight to Michigan friends, little crime fighter Mackenzie and her mother Jayle.
Everyone, I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern, and until then, goodnight, friend.
END
