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Imam Speaks Out about Ground Zero Mosque; No Single Factor Caused Gulf Oil Spill; Big Help Coming for Small Businesses; Lifeguard Bot in Testing; Angelina Jolie Heads to Pakistan; CNN Election Express in Ohio and Kentucky; Bill Clinton Does Some Political Thumping for Dems; Geothermal Energy Can Provide 50% Cut in Your Energy Bill

Aired September 08, 2010 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

DREW GRIFFIN, CNN ANCHOR: And the CNN NEWSROOM continues right now with Ali Velshi.

ALI VELSHI, CNN ANCHOR: Drew, thanks very much. Have a good afternoon.

I'm Ali Velshi, as Drew said. Here's what I've got on the rundown.

Dr. Sanjay Gupta has an exclusive conversation with Angelina Jolie, who's on a U.N. mission to flood-ravaged Pakistan. She's witnessing stories of horror, along with stories of true inspiration, and she's going to share them with Sanjay. We'll share them with you.

Plus, BP is out with its explanation of the Gulf oil disaster. If you're looking for a flat-out apology or an outright admission of responsibility, you're not going to get it. There's plenty of blame, however, to go around. We'll tell you where the fingers are being pointed.

And it's clean. It's efficient, and it could cut your energy bill in half. I'm talking about geothermal energy. I'm going to introduce you to a company that's taking it into the big leagues here in the United States.

But first, a big development in the Islamic center controversy in New York. The imam behind the controversy, Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf, will speak out on TV for the first time today, right here on CNN. He will talk with CNN's Soledad O'Brien at 9 p.m. Eastern tonight.

Let me just give you some background again as to what the story is about. It is an Islamic center that is being built on a commercial site, two blocks from Ground Zero. You can sort of see it here. The World Trade Center is this area at the bottom. The proposed mosque site is a couple of blocks north of that. And by the way, an existing mosque is two blocks north of that. That is the mosque that will be relocating to this area.

But it's -- as part of a larger Islamic center with prayer areas, as we have just learned today from an op-Ed in the "New York Times" will actually involve prayer spaces for Christianity -- for Christians, and for Jews, as well.

Let's talk a little bit about what this imam has said in his op- Ed. He says, and I quote, "Cordoba House" -- which is the name of the -- the mosque to be built -- "Cordoba House will be built on the two fundamental commandments common to Judaism, Christianity and Islam: to love the Lord, our creator, with all of our hearts, minds, souls and strength; and to love our neighbors as we love ourselves. We want to foster a culture of worship authentic to each religious tradition and a culture of forging personal bonds across religious tradition."

So this is what Imam Feisal Abdu Rauf, who has just returned from weeks overseas has had to say about this. He did say, by the way, that he did not want to comment on this growing controversy while he was overseas. He wanted to be in the United States to do it.

Now, the name that he is using, Cordoba House, he explains, again, in his "New York Times" op-Ed: "Our name, Cordoba, was inspired by the city in Spain where Muslims, Christians and Jews coexisted in the middle ages during a period of great cultural enrichment created by Muslims.

And, of course, there is nothing in this entire discussion that is free of controversy. Even that statement is challenged by some people to say things weren't as good in Cordoba, Spain, in the 1500s and 1400s, as this imam would have you believe.

But you're going to be able to hear it from him, himself, tonight on "LARRY KING LIVE." Soledad O'Brien will be interviewing Imam Feisal Rauf for the first time on television tonight.

Deborah Feyerick, as well, has been following this story with great detail. If we want to know more about who this man is, why and how he got to the center of this controversy, you can hear it best from Deborah. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): You have never heard him speak. This is what Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf has to say.

IMAM FEISAL ABDUL RAUF, CORDOVA HOUSE PROJECT: The major theme in Islam is the oneness of God. And that we should worship one God, love and adore the one God.

FEYERICK: People who know Imam Feisal say he's a voice of moderation. The State Department.

P.J. CROWLEY, STATE DEPARTMENT SPOKESMAN: His work on tolerance and religious diversity is well-known.

FEYERICK: The developer of the controversial Islamic center near Ground Zero.

SHARIF EL-GAMAL, CEO, SOHO PROPERTIES: He is somebody who has sacrificed his life to building bridges within communities.

FEYERICK: Islamic scholar and university professor John Esposito.

(on camera) How would you describe him? Is he a threat?

JOHN ESPOSITO, ISLAMIC SCHOLAR/GEORGETOWN UNIVERSITY PROFESSOR: Feisal is -- from my point of view, he is Mr. Mellow.

FEYERICK: Imam Feisal is a Sufi Muslim, at the other end of the Islamic spectrum from the radical theology that feeds groups like al Qaeda.

ESPOSITO: He approaches Islam spiritually. He is a Sufi in background, which means one perceives, if you will, a more kind of spiritual, mystical path. He's somebody who would find terrorism and religious extremism as abhorrent. He's run a mosque in this area for years and years and years.

FEYERICK: That mosque, the Majid al-Fara (ph), is ten blocks from Ground Zero, and has coexisted peacefully in the Tribeca neighborhood for 28 years.

ESPOSITO: He has integrated himself into the community.

FEYERICK: According to his biography, Feisal Abdul Rauf was born in Kuwait in 1948, into an Egyptian family steeped in religious scholarship.

In 1997, he founded the nonprofit American Society for Muslim Advancement. Its mission, described on its Web site as "strengthening an authentic expression of Islam based on cultural and religious harmony through interfaith collaboration, youth and women's empowerment."

Several years later, Rauf founded the Cordoba Institute to improve relations between the Muslim world and the west, writing how American Muslims can help bridge the divide. The State Department noticed, sending him as a cultural ambassador on four trips to the Middle East, most recently this summer.

GRAEME BANNERMAN, FORMER STATE DEPARTMENT OFFICIAL: They try to get people who reflect the best aspects of American society.

FEYERICK: Rauf is often asked to speak at meetings like the World Economic Forum in Davos.

He was criticized after 9/11 for saying U.S. support of repressive regimes was partly responsible for the attacks but maintained his remarks on "60 Minutes" had been taken out of context.

Rauf supports Israel's rights to exist but says as a bridge- builder, he can't condemn radical Palestinian group Hamas as terrorists.

As for the proposed Islamic center and mosque near Ground Zero, he says that, too, is about bridges.

RAUF: This is also our expression of the 99.999 percent of Muslims all over the world, including in America, who have condemned and continue to condemn terrorism. This is about our stand as the Muslim community has been part of this community.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VELSHI: Deborah Feyerick joins me now from New York.

You have been fully involved in this story, and obviously, as we saw in your story, you've spoken to Imam Rauf in the past. Does your impression of him square with the impression that -- of those people you talked to, that this is a man who does not seem to be harboring some inner sympathy for terrorism or extremism or fundamentalism?

FEYERICK: You know, it's interesting. I have actually not met him personally, but I have spoken to a number of people who know him, who have met with him, who have spoken with him, and they really say the one thing is that he is a moderate. He is mainstream. He practices a very peaceful, loving Islam.

You know, I've been reading through his book, and it's really fascinating. One of the things he does is, he just shows how many similarities there are between the Judeo-Christian profits, how they're mentioned multiple times in the Koran. That it's sort of an extension. And so he's really trying to find commonalities, trying to show similarities, and what makes us really similar as opposed to different.

So he is a bridge builder. And look, the State Department just doesn't send anybody --

VELSHI: Right.

FEYERICK: -- you know, out to serve as a voice and as a representative for the government. And they thought that he was the best choice.

VELSHI: All right. I don't think he knew that he was going to step into it so much with this whole issue. But he seems prepared to discuss it, and he's going to talk about it tonight right here on CNN. Deb Feyerick, thanks very much. And he will be on CNN tonight.

Listen, Deborah was just saying that in his book, he talks about Islam and its similarities to the Judeo-Christian tradition. In fact, historically and theologically, these religious are thought of as major western religious traditions that have a lot more in common than not.

But there are five basic principles of Islam. And I just want to tell you about those right now. These are -- these are the five basic principles that all Muslims should subscribe to.

The first one is the oath. That is the Arabic script for the shahada, which is basically the oath that Muslims must take to say that there is only one God, and Mohammed is God's profit. That is the belief. In Islam, the Prophet Mohammed is not a divine being. He is a man through whom God sent his message to -- to the people. No. 2 is prayer. You will -- you will have heard that Muslims are compelled to pray five times a day. Certain sects in Islam interpret that differently. But the bottom line is regular daily prayer at set times is a major tenet of Islam.

The third one is giving of alms. It is called zakat. Something very common to major religious traditions. A certain amount of your income is to be given back to -- to the community, and distributed as charity. Some people interpret that, by the way, to mean direct giving to charity, and not going through the religious institutions.

The idea of fasting. Right now we are in the month of Ramadan, where Muslims fast from sun-up until sundown for the entire month. The end of Ramadan, the breaking of that fast, finally, will take place on Saturday, September the 11th.

And finally, this one is most common to some people, because of the images you see of it on TV. The Hajj, the pilgrimage to Mecca, which is something that is called upon for all healthy Muslims to do at one point during their life.

I want to discuss a little bit more about why this is not the image you have or many people have of Islam, but in fact they have a very different image of Islam. And to do that, I want to bring in Michael Cromartie. He's the vice president of ethics and -- at the Ethics and Public Policy Center. He is a senior adviser to the Pew Forum on Religious and Public Life, and he's a professor of religion.

Michael, thank you for being with us. Tell me this. Why is Islam, certainly in America, not regarded by the mainstream as a religion that is a cousin to Christianity or Judaism and has so much more in common with them than not?

PROF. MICHAEL CROMARTIE, VICE PRESIDENT, ETHICS AND PUBLIC POLICY CENTER (via telephone): Well, I think the reason for that is simply that modern Islam in America has a PR problem. Clearly, from, you know, your own show, you can see here that Americans have many diverse views of what Islam is.

The reason for that is simply this. Islam is a very diverse faith. I mean, it is about as diverse as Protestant Christianity. Because Islam does the not, like -- like Catholicism, have a pope, it's never really clear who's speaking for Islam. And so as a result, you have many, many, many different interpretations of how to understand the Koran, and what real Islam is.

So as a result, you -- out of the diversity of Islam, you have all these different conflicting views of what Islam is.

Now, right now, the problem for modern Islam is that you've got a small, very small percentage of Muslims who have become violent, and have used violence to advance their cause. And they get all the publicity. Meanwhile, all the moderates, who are the largest percentage of Muslims everywhere, don't get the attention they should. And so people have this view that Islam is a violent religion. And that's a misperception. VELSHI: You know, the holy books of the major religious traditions in the west have a whole lot of violence in them. There were incidents of violence, historical violence. And yet many of our own viewers have the impression that Islam somehow is violent as part of its nature.

CROMARTIE: Well, that's right. And, I mean, look, let's be frank. It was people who called themselves Muslims who crashed airplanes into buildings. And so while the Bible and the Old Testament has violent scenes, there are not many people around the world who are flying airplanes into buildings, and doing it in the aim of the God of Abraham, Jacob, Isaac and Jesus. And so that's where the problem is. People are -- people are doing this in the name of a faith, and they're misrepresenting faith itself.

VELSHI: Well, how, then, do you deal with the fact that this Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf I think legitimately believes he was being a bridge builder? He was doing the right thing. But he cannot get out from under the impression that so many people have about Islam. So something that seems like a step in the right direction, the motives of that are suspect.

So if Islam, as you said, in America has a PR problem and possibly around the world, how do -- how do people who want to change that -- that message get it done?

CROMARTIE: Well, ironically, I think this whole debate is actually helping us in that area. It's really -- with your program and other programs, causing us to rethink our perceptions of each other. And so people of different faiths are now having to revisit what the real core essence of Judaism or Christianity or Islam is. And that's all to the good.

And while this controversy is very intense and emotional, it does cause us to do what we're doing now, which is to try to get at the core of what each of these faiths are about. And I think that's actually healthy. And I think the imam would do his cause well if he continually was out front with editorials and appearances, explaining who he is, as opposed to what the misperceptions are.

VELSHI: Michael, I suspect now that he's back in the United States, you're going to see a lot more of that. Thanks very much for sharing your insights with us. We really appreciate it.

CROMARTIE: Thank you.

VELSHI: Michael Cromartie is the vice president at the Ethics and Public Policy Center.

All right. Don't forget: Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf is going to give his first U.S. TV interview tonight on "LARRY KING LIVE," hosted by Soledad O'Brien, 9 p.m. Eastern.

We also want to make an announcement about CNN. We want to announce that Piers Morgan will be taking over Larry King's prime-time hour starting in January. You might know Piers as a judge on NBC's "America's Got Talent." He most recently hosted "Piers Morgan's Life Stories" in the United Kingdom. Piers has an extensive newspaper background, and he's coming to us with a candid in-depth interview show. Pleased to welcome him to the CNN team.

All right. Big finger pointing going on, this time coming from BP. It's out with its own report from the Gulf oil disaster. If you're looking for major acknowledgments of blame, you are not going to get it. We've gone over it with detail, with a fine-toothed comb, and we're going to bring it to you on the other side.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELSHI: All right. It is full speed ahead in the Gulf oil disaster blame game. BP posted its internal report on the massive oil spill on its Web site this morning.

The bottom line, quote, "A sequence of failures involving a number of different parties," end quote, was to blame. BP does take some responsibility, but for the most part, it points its fingers at others.

You'll recall, the worst oil spill in U.S. history started on April the 20th with the explosion and fire on the Deepwater Horizon oil rig. Eleven workers were killed. Nearly 5 million barrels of oil flowed into the Gulf of Mexico. And it wasn't until July 15 that the well was finally capped.

Our Ed Lavandera has been poring over BP's 190-page report. He joins us now from Dallas.

Ed, anybody going to be happy with this report?

ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, I haven't heard much positive reaction to it so far. There's been a number of environmental groups, legal groups. We're still waiting -- you know, we've got a wide net cast out there to kind of get response and reaction to what has been -- we imagine it's a lengthy report, incredibly involved and detailed.

So imagine a lot of people are still poring through it, trying to understand exactly what BP has included in this.

But you know, you really kind of hit on the major points that essentially what they're saying is that the -- several companies should shoulder the blame for this disaster, including Transocean, which owned the Deepwater Horizon rig; as well as Halliburton, which was the company that was responsible for cementing the well.

And in those findings, the company also released a 30-minute video, having included on an animation describing what they say they believe happened leading up to this disaster. Listen to a little bit of it to get a sense of what BP is putting out there today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We believe that BP and Halliburton, working together, should have better identified and address the issues underlying the cement job. Improved technical assurance, risk management and management of change by BP personnel could have raised awareness and led to better decisions regarding acceptance and implementation of the cement proposal.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LAVANDERA: You heard there a little bit of the way BP kind of criticized itself. Some people have been saying it's essentially just kind of a slap on the wrist.

So, you know, there are other investigations that are going on, which will pore much deeper and drill much deeper into the technicalities of what went on in the days leading up to this oil rig disaster.

But Ali, it's clear that many people are believing that the way BP has presented this has much more to do with public relations and kind of setting up their own legal -- legal defense here in the months and years ahead.

VELSHI: Ed, you've done a lot of coverage on this, and it's not over yet. We'll continue to cover this. Ed Lavandera in Dallas for us. Thanks very much, Ed.

All right. Coming up next, President Obama announcing plans to help small businesses. We're going to tell you just what he plans to do when I come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELSHI: Hi. We all know times are tough and a lot of businesses are not doing so well, except that businesses, particularly small businesses in America, are the heart of job growth, whether times are good or times are bad. Right now, that growth isn't happening.

Next hour, the president announces big plans to help businesses, particularly small businesses, to the tune of billions. Actually, hundreds of billions of dollars.

Let me break it down for you. So far, the president this week has already announced $150 billion worth of -- you can call it stimulus or tax cuts, or tax credits. A hundred and fifty dollar -- billion dollars worth of stuff going into the economy.

Another $200 billion about to be announced. These are tax cuts for businesses. Let me break down exactly how those tax cuts work for you.

First of all, there will be the tax cut -- the tax credit can be taken if you invest in physical plant, if you build buildings or you buy equipment. And if you do that, you get 100 percent tax credit. A hundred percent. So this is meant to stimulate businesses to actually invest in things.

Now, how many businesses does this affect? According to the government, the White House, 1.5 million businesses will be able to take advantage of this particular tax cut.

Now, we're expecting more details, obviously, when the president speaks. Here's what we don't know just yet. We don't know if this gets past Congress. We have not too many weeks left in Congress. Congress is very edgy about passing things that have to do with money right now. So it may not get passed at all.

How many people it affects? We know it affects 1.5 million businesses, but what does that mean in terms of the number of people expected to get jobs as a result of this?

We don't know the economic impact of it. We don't know the budget impact. While the president has come up with $350 billion worth of stuff this week, they -- the White House has said it will be offset by some other things. So we don't know what the budget impact of this is.

We also don't know what the political impact of it is. We'll talk to our political correspondents later in the show about that.

If you want more information on your money, tune in to "YOUR $$$$$," Saturdays at 1 p.m. Eastern on CNN, Sundays at 3 p.m. Eastern.

All right, a new type of lifeguard is watching your back at the beach. EMILY may not be buff enough for "Baywatch," but she is every bit as effective. We'll introduce you to EMILY when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELSHI: Next time you are at a beach, a new lifeguard could be on duty. Now, she does not run in slow motion, on the sand, wearing a red bikini, but she can definitely keep you safe. Gary Tuchman takes us to the "Edge of Discovery."

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GARY TUCHMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This lifeguard might be the best on the beach. Her name? EMILY, which stands for Emergency Integrated Lifesaving Lanyard.

BOB LAUTRUP, HYDRONALIX: It doesn't replace the lifeguard, but may enable the lifeguards to get to an individual that they would not have been able to get to in the past.

TUCHMAN: EMILY speeds through high waves and rip tides in seconds, directed from shore by a remote control. When she reaches swimmers in distress, they can hold on to her until more help arrives.

Her creators are also working on a setup that would let lifeguards talk to swimmers through an on-board P.A. system.

LAUTRUP: We have worked on having a radio to send EMILY out to say, "Stand away from this. You're in danger of going into a rip tide."

TUCHMAN: And that's not all this bay-watching bot might do. Her designers say EMILY could be equipped with sonar and cameras to monitor erosion, study pollution in remote areas, or be used for military surveillance.

EMILY is still being tested, so it could be a while before you can check her out at a beach near you.

Gary Tuchman, CNN.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VELSHI: That is excellent. I'm enjoying EMILY.

All right. She's one of Hollywood's biggest stars. Angelina Jolie is also a personal envoy of the United Nations High Commission for Refugees. She is now touring flood-ravaged Pakistan and appealing to the rest of the world for help. Her exclusive interview right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELSHI: All right. I want to go back to the CNN Express, which is in Covington, Kentucky. Gloria Borger is there, our senior political analyst, with the Buckeye State right behind you, where you were earlier today.

Gloria, you were talking to a first-term Democrat, who is now being challenged by the man he defeated last time around.

Tell us a bit about this.

GLORIA BORGER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes, it's a little bit of a grudge match here. And Steve Driehaus came in the Obama wave in 2008. And the man he beat is trying to get back his seat in the anti-Obama wave. And so it was interesting because I talked to Congressman Driehaus, asked him about the tax cut question, which is, of course, topic A today, with the president's speech coming up.

He's with the president on everything, on stimulus, on health care. But when you ask him specifically whether he supports a repeal of the tax cuts for wealthy, he is kind of hard to pin down.

Take a listen to this, Ali.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BORGER: Would you keep the tax cuts for the middle class and have the tax cuts for the wealthy?

REP. STEVE DRIEHAUS (D), OHIO: I'm going to support the middle class. I'm going support small business and --

BORGER: What would you do, how would you vote?

DRIEHAUS: Well, tell me what the bill is. This hypothetical of the Bush tax cuts as one big package. That's not the way this is going to work. BORGER: But the president is going to come out and say today that he wants the tax cuts for the wealthy to expire. And he wants to keep the tax cuts for the middle class.

DRIEHAUS: If it is on earned income for people above a certain level, I will certainly consider it. But if it's going to penalize in any way - small businesses

BORGER: You're not giving me an answer on this.

DRIEHAUS: No, I'm telling you what it is, and I'm not going to engage in a hypothetical.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BORGER: So there you have it, Ali. He calls it a hypothetical. And there are lots of Democrats in swing districts who they're going to have to give a bye on this if it comes to a vote, because the tax issue is very, very delicate for Democrats.

VELSHI: Well, it's particularly tough at this point to be a Democrat on this one. Hopefully it'll become clearer later today after the president speaks. And we'll talk about that in a minute.

But it is a little easier to be a Republican on this particular issue. They seem to have a more consistent take on it. What is Driehaus' opponent, the man who used to be in the district, got to say about this?

BORGER: Right. Steve Chabot has a very clear answer on this, which is no, no, no, no. No tax increases.

Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BORGER: He's going to talk about keeping the tax cuts for the middle class, but getting rid of the tax cuts for the wealthy.

What do you think about that?

STEVE CHABOT (R), OHIO CONGRESSIONAL CANDIDATE: They're using the typical liberal class warfare. That's what this is all about. They're trying to pit groups of people against each other. And that's just the wrong way to do it. What we ought to do is reduce the level of taxation on all Americans. And also those that are creating jobs.

BORGER: Can we afford that? Can we afford that, though, given the deficit the country faces?

CHABOT: We can't afford not to do it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BORGER: So this, of course, Ali, leads into the deficit argument, right? And the deficit argument -- the Democrats are going to say, well, excuse me, how can you be for extending tax cuts, which will cost $3 trillion if you want to reduce the deficit? That doesn't make any sense. That's really the key argument we're going to have going into this entire fall campaign.

VELSHI: I thought that was a great answer by Steve Chabot when you said, can we afford to do this? And he said we can't afford not to do it. In other words, another non-answer to, wait a second if you don't cut - I mean, look, we are ultimately all going to learn that we can't have it both ways.

What do we expect the president is going to contribute to this discussion this afternoon when he speaks?

BORGER: Well, he's going to talk about more stimulus, although they're not going to call it a "stimulus package." He's going to talk about helping small business, which is something that you would assume the Democrats and Republicans might be able to agree on. And he's going to really talk about the fact that he wants to extend the tax cuts for those earning less than $250,000 a year, those families.

But for the top two percent of wage earners, he's going to say, you know what, it's time to bring the tax rates down, let those expire. Raise those tax rates, I'm sorry. Let those expire back to where they were when Bill Clinton was president because we have to start attacking this deficit problem. And he's going to say that it is, in fact, the responsible thing to do.

But it is going to be one of the central arguments of this campaign. And you're going to -- it's very dangerous, I might add, for Democrats, Ali, because they're playing in the Republican wheelhouse here. Tax cuts is a Republican issue. So it's hard for Democrats to talk about raising taxes.

VELSHI: Yes.

BORGER: Sometimes people don't distinguish between the rich and the middle class.

VELSHI: And we're looking on the right side of the screen, by the way, at the president in Cleveland, Ohio. He is there talking to some people. You know, we're going to bring you that speech when he makes it a little later on.

And Gloria, we'll keep talking about this. I have to say, while you're still in the shadow of Cincinnati, you know, like New York has its bagels and Philly has its Cheesesteaks; Cincinnati chili has got to be one of my favorite foods.

BORGER: You know, we passed a Cincinnati chili place and we stopped because a little bit of the diet. But maybe we'll get back there later tonight.

VELSHI: Yes, I like the idea of two of my favorite foods being put together, chili and spaghetti and tomatoes.

Gloria, good to see you. We will talk a little later on in the show.

Gloria Borger, our senior political analyst, coming to Kentucky, right across the river from Cincinnati.

Angelina Jolie, you all know her. She is touring the flood- ravaged Pakistan. Her exclusive interview with Dr. Sanjay Gupta, coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELSHI: All right. It's time now to go Globe Trekking. We are going back to flood-ravaged Pakistan. Actress Angelina Jolie is there on a mission, urging the international community to do more to help the millions of flood victims.

She is there as a special envoy from the United Nations High Commission for Refugees. Nearly 21 million people have been affected by the worst flooding to hit Pakistan in 80 years. The death toll now stands at 1,738, but it is expected to climb much higher as more people fall victim to the waterborne diseases they have been affected by.

Angelina Jolie says she decided to go to Pakistan after seeing reports from there by our chief medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta. She spoke to Sanjay in an exclusive interview.

He began by asking her why she thinks people haven't paid enough attention to this disaster.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANGELINA JOLIE, U.N. GOODWILL AMBASSADOR: I think people have a fatigue, in general when it comes to disaster relief. But if I can say that the thing I have learned the most in being here is that we tend to focus on one issue at a time because that seems to be what people can absorb and care for. But Pakistan is so complex because it has not just the people being affected now but the 1.7 million Afghan people who are here. And they have been displaced from the flood.

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Often -- you may have found this as well in your travels, we tend to think of these places as over there. Somewhere else. Not here. But when you go and I was there as well, I mean, you meet people. They are real faces and stories behind these crazy high numbers. Raymond and Zarugagul (ph) are two people that you met.

Tell me about him. How did you meet them? What did they tell you?

JOLIE: As you, we go to these places and you always say the same things to the viewer which is that they would be so moved if they were here. And it is so true. If they met all these children who are so resilient and are still children and so full of life and love and hope. And it is always so moving. And this is a very unique for me because I met this beautiful older couple who are in their 70s. And they worked their whole lives. And the man had been in the Pakistani military twice and he had been lived off of a pension. And with that small pension he built this home and his family and for his grandchildren. And it was very modest to begin with. But he had something. And now they are both dealing with a lot of sickness and as you see, I believe in the tape, the woman was -- is so embarrassed with her situation.

She -- and the man spoke to the fact that he never felt in his lifetime he is ever going to be able to recuperate what he has lost. That he would never have again nice things. That he would never have a nice bed, a nice house. And she -- they lived in this place since 1972 and raised their children and their grandchildren there. In a moment, in a few hours, it was completely gone. And they are really good people, and really just kind, wonderful, hard-working older people who will pass away most likely in this mud-covered area. Which is so covered with dirt and there's feces in the river nearby. It is covered in flies. It doesn't have the dignity that they deserve to live in, that anyone deserves to live in.

GUPTA: And it is more heartbreaking to hear that. And I think it's almost more heartbreaking to hear that they are embarrassed to tell you about it. I don't know -- you know, how that should make somebody feel. I traveled through these camps, Angelina where I saw these kids in their tents. In the situations you are describing, having done the homework, and being a father as well. I don't know. It really got at me because they have dreams and aspirations and hopes and those things are spread throughout the world evenly.

What -- are you optimistic about the next generation of Pakistan? It is a young country. It has been devastated so many times now as you just mentioned.

JOLIE: I think - I think we have no choice but to be optimistic and have hope without that we are just lost and things deteriorate. I think it is - you know, this part of the world, they are - they are resilient people. Think of all that they have been hit with. They continue to move on, to rebuild. To trade, to educate, to learn to, you know, they are really trying. And they have fought through a lot and will continue to fight through. And that goes for the Afghani people as well. So you know, we have to. We have to support them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELSHI: The flooding in Pakistan started back in July. The U.N. issued an appeal for $460 million in emergency funds on August the 11. So far, only $294 million has been received. Donations have basically dried up in recent days.

John McCain's daughter driven to tears. Your "CNN Equals Politics" update is next live from the CNN Election Express.

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VELSHI: Time for "CNN Equals Politics." Right now, CNN national political correspondent Jessica Yellin on Election Express in Covington, Kentucky, right across the bridge from Cincinnati, Ohio. So she is going to tell us what is crossing the ticker right now. Five dollars extra if you work Skyline Chili into your report.

JESSICA YELLIN, CNN NATIONAL POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Oh, Ali, OK.

All right, first of all, it's a big day today for former President Bill Clinton. He is out stumping. Well, first I told you yesterday he was stumping for Florida's senate democratic candidate Kendrick Meek, he raised $175,000 in an afternoon for the candidate who will need a lot more than that. And today he is headed down south to Arkansas, where he will join Senate democratic candidate Blanch Lincoln.

He has stumped for Lincoln before, Ali, you might remember. That was a closely-watched Senate runoff between two democratic contenders, and Bill Clinton helped clinch a win for her in the primary, but even the Clinton magic might not be enough to pull Blanch Lincoln through. Privately, Democrats are conceding that her senate seat is one they realize they may likely lose come November.

Well, it's hard to talk about one Clinton as another as it is to mention, what was it, chili on the skyline without French fries? Also, yes, so big day today also for Secretary of State Hillary Clinton. She gave an important speech to the Council on Foreign Relations where she talked about her view of the U.S.'s role and the world in the future. And she said the U.S. will retain its role as a dominant leader in the world, but more through partnerships, strategic partnerships, and not just through overwhelming military and economic might.

She also used the opportunity to criticize plans by a Florida church to burn a Koran on the anniversary of 9/11. She says she wishes that weren't getting as much attention as it is, but, quote, "that's the world we're living in today."

And, Ali, I don't know what makes you cry, but if you're Megan McCain, well, she is telling talk show host Jay Leno what her cry is her dad's choice of Sarah Palin to be his running mate on the ticket. She says it's because she was so shocked. She had never heard of her didn't know or didn't really know who she was when the announcement came. And she says, politics, you don't like surprises in politics.

All this, you won't be surprised to hear, is as she is promoting -- what? -- a book, "Dirty Sexy Politics." I'm sure you can buy it in stores everywhere. Megan McCain, I'm sure, would like everyone to do that -- Ali.

VELSHI: You know, you and I have work together a lot, but we haven't shared a lot of food. We don't have the same thing -- so you're probably not much of a Cincinnati chili aficionado where they put chili on spaghetti and there's some cocoa in the chili.

YELLIN: No -- wait, on spaghetti? Why would they put cocoa -- no, yes, no. I mean, I'm all for Cincinnati local delicacies, but yes, too starch heavy. VELSHI: Jessica, always a pleasure to see you. Thanks very much. You got yourself your five bucks out of that, we'll have to give you something more challenging sometime.

Jessica Yellin with our political ticker. We'll be bringing that up to you very regularly. Be sure to stay with CNN for complete coverage of the key races and the key issues heading into this critical midterm election. Your next "CNN Equals Politics" update is just one hour away.

All right, energy bills for your home cut in half. How do you do that? I'm going to tell you about geothermal energy, it's out "Big 'I'" after a quick break and I'll show you a company that is taking geothermal energy to a whole new level.

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VELSHI: Time for the "Big 'I'," big idea that could change the way we do things. And I want to talk to you about something -- I feel bad that I don't talk about this more, because it is truly one of the most fascinating forms of energy and could actually answer a lot of our problems.

I'm talking about geothermal energy, the heat that we can extract from the ground, largely for free. You can't get it for free, you've got to set up a few things to make sure you can extract it, but it's truly fascinating.

I want to give you a big picture. Let me take you back to 1973 and give you a sense of what our energy consumption looked like back in 1973. Not what it looked like, but basically a pie of where we got our energy from.

Back then, more than half of our energy came from oil, about almost a quarter came from coal, about 19 percent from gas. And then if you look over there, nuclear, hydro, which is hydroelectricity from water, and other were altogether less than 5 percent of our energy. Look at "Other" in 1973, 0.2 percent. There was no other.

Let's take it to 2009, the latest year for which we have complete statistics cause we're still in 2010. We've gone from 52.5 percent dependence on oil to 37.2 percent. Natural gas has increased to 24.2 percent. That is a domestically available source of energy, so there's been a lot of emphasis on using natural gas. Coal down from 22.6 percent to 19 percent. Nuclear was 1.3 percent, now it's 11 percent of what we do. We generate electricity. Hydro, exactly the same as where it was back in 1973.

But we're getting 4.4 percent of our energy from combustible renewals and waste, which is fantastic. That other category has gone from 0.2 percent to 1.1 percent. Within other falls geothermal. Bottom line, not too many people are using geothermal.

Now what's the issue with geothermal? The thing about geothermal that's neat is that you go into the ground and the temperature even 10 feet under the ground is much more consistent than it is above ground. So think about it like your fridge. Basically, you run water through pipes that go into the ground. In winter, you're taking your cooler water from your house, running it through the ground. It warms up and then comes back up and warms your house. In summer, the temperature of the water in your house is going to be hotter than it is in the ground. So you run that same water through the earth and it cools it down. It's the same way a refrigerator works, you're just using the earth.

Now, this is being used, a lot of people are using it. Some people are using it in their homes, some companies are using it. One company that I often think of at the cutting edge of new ways of consuming energy is IKEA. This is a company that has been thinking ahead for a long time. Some of it is because of their European sensibilities, European companies tend to be further ahead in this than American companies are. But some of it is just because IKEA is an interesting company.

Joseph Roth is joining me from Philadelphia, he's with IKEA because they are taking a 415,000-square-foot building in Denver that they're building, I guess a year from now it'll be finished, and it is the first geothermal IKEA in the United States.

Joseph, tell me about it.

JOSEPH ROTH, IKEA SPOKESMAN: Hi, Ali.

We're very excited about the product we're building in Centennial, Colorado. It'll open next fall in 2011, as you said, 415,000 square feet and the first IKEA store in the U.S. that will be built as a geothermal component.

VELSHI: What do you do? What makes that building different? How do you get the geothermal? I guess you're putting holes into the ground?

ROTH: Absolutely. Actually, we are -- 135 holes have been dug 500 feet deep into the ground, roughly 5.5 inches wide. And pipes will be put in them, actually have been put in. It serves as a continuous or closed loop.

And then there's a fluid or a liquid that will circulate throughout these tubes absorbing heat or coolness from the ground and taking it up into the store and adding it into our heating and cooling system.

VELSHI: I described it as water, but it's a fluid that will conduct that heat. I described -- I'm oversimplifying this, but it kind of does work like a fridge.

Can it work I houses the same way it works? Because you've done an IKEA like this before. This is the first one in the U.S., but it's not the first one in the world.

ROTH: Absolutely. Worldwide, we have about 15 other locations, mostly in Europe that do have geothermal and we're very excited. Obviously, there are certain site-specific attributes which makes this ideal in the situation in Colorado. Obviously, if you have a very high water table, it's not as doable to drill down really deep into the ground. But in Colorado, great soil, great ground, great opportunity.

And 415,000 square feet is a big building. It's 13.5 acres. It's a great opportunity for us and we're also going to use it to help melt the snow in the winter.

VELSHI: Sounds expensive to be drilling 130 holes in the ground. Obviously, if you're a household, you don't have to drill a 130 holes. Do you really make up the money that you save by using geothermal?

ROTH: Absolutely. We would not be making this sizable of an investment if we were not confident of the result. And we're expecting very quick payback and we're expecting actually between 40 percent and 50 percent reduction in our energy cost and in our consumption, so we're very thrilled with this prospect.

VELSHI: So your payback will be over how many years?

ROTH: Very shortly after opening.

VELSHI: Oh, very good. All right.

Joseph, thanks for joining with us. Great ideas. We love the fact that IKEA continues to come up with great ways to just keep the Earth a little bit greener.

Joseph Roth of IKEA, live from Philadelphia.

All right, let's talk a little bit about geothermal energy in your house. It's going to cost you two to three times as much as replacing your current heating and cooling system, but you are going to make that money back two ways.

First of all, the federal government offers a 30 percent uncapped federal tax credit for installing a geothermal system. There is no cap on that, that is something worth remembering.

Secondly, you're going to cut your heating and cooling bill in half. So your initial investment could be paid back within four to five years.

Again, as Joseph just said, it's got to do with where you live, doesn't work for everybody and you have to have somebody around who knows how to do it, but give geothermal a thought.

All right, we're going to take a quick break. On the other side, I'll bring you up to speed with what we're following.

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