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Joy Behar Page
Oprah`s Finale; Interview With Nancy Grace
Aired September 13, 2010 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Coming up on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW -- Oprah Winfrey, the queen of daytime talk kicked off her final season today with big stars and big surprises. But can she win with her next project? And who will take her place.
Then from Lindsay Lohan`s tongue-in-cheek sketch to Lady Gaga`s meat suit to the Kanye-Taylor feud, Joy will have all the dirt from last night`s MTV Awards.
Plus, HLN`s Nancy Grace stops by to talk about her new show, "SWIFT JUSTICE", and update us on some of the day`s biggest crime stories.
That and more starting right now.
JOY BEHAR, HLN HOST: After 25 years, Oprah launched the final season of her hit show today with the ultimate audience surprise. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OPRAH WINFREY, TALK SHOW HOST: Maybe I should take all of you with me to the other side of the world. We are going to Australia. We are going to Australia. You and you and you and you, you -- Australia.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Well, you know, I`m a giver, too. Ok, guys? In fact, for our first anniversary, I`m going to take all of you to Brooklyn on the F-train. And guess who is coming with us?
He`s here tonight; another talk TV heavyweight who today debuted the 13th season of his show, "Maury", Maury Povich.
MAURY POVICH, HOST, "MAURY": How are you Joy? Nice to see you. I can be the guy because I have been on that train.
BEHAR: Exactly.
POVICH: I know exactly where it goes to.
BEHAR: She is something. Isn`t she? Oprah Winfrey.
POVICH: She is -- I mean, I tell you. She -- I have been trying 25 years to kick her of the air. She has been -- she has been too big. So finally she`s leaving on her own.
BEHAR: Yes. But how does it help you that she is leaving?
POVICH: Well, I don`t know if it helps me. I know one thing. She took my director years ago. She took my personal assistants years ago. She took one of my producers years ago. So there.
BEHAR: She must pay more money than you do.
POVICH: Yes, she does.
BEHAR: That`s the whole key.
POVICH: And she takes everybody to Australia.
BEHAR: I know. Where were you going to take your audience?
POVICH: Come on now. My audience is just happy to come to Stamford, Connecticut, during the week to watch me tape.
BEHAR: You know, you are all heart. You are too good. You have been -- no. You have also been in syndication for 25 years.
POVICH: Yes.
BEHAR: But you have had three different shows. Right?
POVICH: I had a starter with "A Current Affair", that kind of crazy show that started all the tabloid news magazines. Then I did a show called the "Maury Povich Show" for Paramount for seven years and now with NBC Universal for 13. So it`s --
BEHAR: That`s an incredible track record, Maury.
POVICH: You know, it is incredible, Joy, you know this business because in syndication, it is the most cut-throat --
BEHAR: Very difficult.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: -- end of the business because you are starting on your own. You have to sell your show to individual stations. You have to get a rating that justifies you staying on the air.
BEHAR: In the right markets, too.
POVICH: In the right markets, yes.
BEHAR: The big cities -- otherwise you are dead.
POVICH: And I saw it the other day, somebody told me, there are 70 -- since Oprah and I started, there are 75 talk shows in the graveyard that have failed.
BEHAR: Wow.
POVICH: Since we have been on the air.
BEHAR: Yes, yes. What`s the secret to your success?
POVICH: You know, I think -- I think the secret to my success is probably no different than Oprah`s because I believe when you get right down to it, this is headline news. I think it is like running a campaign. I think it is like running a political campaign. You have knock on somebody`s door. They have to open the door, invite you into their living room and be comfortable enough that they would like you and enough of them like you so that they turn their sound every day.
BEHAR: It`s all about likeability.
POVICH: I think so.
BEHAR: It is not necessarily competence that drove you to this point.
POVICH: Not me. Not me. I mean I was in the news business most of my life.
BEHAR: No, I`m just teasing you. I think that likeability is probably the primary factor.
(CROSSTALK)
POVICH: I think so and I think that you probably -- show a lot of the same kind of characteristics and traits and feelings that the viewers show. You are really an extension of the viewer. That`s all you are.
BEHAR: You have to be.
POVICH: I think so.
BEHAR: They like to identify.
You know, her show has had an impact on the industry.
POVICH: No question. No question.
BEHAR: She was originally tabloid and then became spiritual. But she metamorphosizes -- if that`s a word.
POVICH: Yes, but I think we`ve all done that. When I first started out in talk 20 years ago, I was more informational, let`s say, than I am now. I mean, we weren`t doing -- I wasn`t doing DNA tests and finding the fathers of babies.
BEHAR: Do you do that every single show?
POVICH: No. I have other -- I have other things. Come on, Joy.
BEHAR: What are some of your things? Tell me some of them.
POVICH: Well, we have lie-detector tests.
BEHAR: Ok. What else?
POVICH: We have 13-year-olds who are out of control and are out on the streets and being promiscuous at that age and so --
BEHAR: Well, that`s the way Oprah`s show --
POVICH: She`s doing -- that`s in her lot. I started out doing boot camps and we kind of do it in house. We have -- like I had Jack Hanna the animal guy, who goes on Letterman all the time, "Good Morning America". I had him on.
BEHAR: So it is not who is the baby`s daddy every day?
POVICH: No. But during sweeps, let me count the ways.
BEHAR: People loved it. They can`t get enough of that can they?
POVICH: You know why?
BEHAR: Why?
POVICH: Because it is a ten-minute soap opera. You have all this drama. You have all this conflict and a result. You know exactly whether the guy is the father or isn`t the father and therefore you get all that reaction. And so, therefore, you have the beginning, middle and end --
BEHAR: I see.
POVICH: -- to a drama.
BEHAR: But not for nothing. A lot of that kind of show, your kind of show drove Phil Donahue off the air, I think.
POVICH: You think so?
BEHAR: Yes. I think it did. Because he --
POVICH: Well, was it that or was it Phil dressing up?
BEHAR: Well, the dressing up was an attempt to be more tabloid, to be more accessible and people will like it better. And it didn`t work for him. It was against -- I think it went against his grain.
He used to -- I always TIVO`d his show. I always taped it because he always had something smart. He would have Madeleine Albright on for an hour, for example.
POVICH: I think that might have been why --
BEHAR: Well, maybe she is a bad example.
POVICH: Ok.
BEHAR: But -- somebody -- in other words, he would have a politician, you know. I don`t know --
POVICH: He would have debates. He would have things --
BEHAR: It was very smart bright, very smart show. And I`m not --
POVICH: He was also the first guy to have a show with an audience. This is before Oprah. In other words, he had the live audience. No other talk show had that live audience in terms of single topics.
BEHAR: Right.
POVICH: I mean you might have Mike Douglas and all these variety shows.
BEHAR: Do you think that still works? Can someone else pull that off?
POVICH: Well, I mean, I think single topics, I mean, that is a rare breed these days. I mean, you have shows like Ellen who need several topics.
BEHAR: Right. My show. We go from one to --
POVICH: Your show. You pack it in.
BEHAR: Pack it in -- 12 guests in an hour sometimes. I think that people have less tolerance for a long drawn-out show; too many things to watch, too much remoting going on, you know.
POVICH: I`ll tell you if you do DNA, you will beat Nancy Grace.
BEHAR: You are fascinated by that.
Ok. You know it is interesting that we are talking about, you know, all of this type of shows. Oprah endorsed Obama when he was running. And that was the first time, I think, she ever took a political stand. How much influence do you think she had on the election? Did it work for her to do that?
POVICH: You know, I`m not -- look, I was in the news business a long time. I don`t think celebrities have impact on political campaigns. I think there is a lot --
BEHAR: She`s not just any celebrity.
POVICH: I understand.
BEHAR: She is Queen Oprah.
POVICH: I think -- let me ask you.
BEHAR: She`s in -- she is in -- reaches 7 million people.
POVICH: Yes.
BEHAR: She`s in 145 countries.
POVICH: Right.
BEHAR: Ok.
POVICH: But at the same time, I would almost be willing to say that - - Obama was going to get those people anyway.
BEHAR: You think so?
POVICH: Sure. Her viewers, a lot of her viewers were Obama people. But she might have -- she might have brought out a bigger -- bigger electorate.
BEHAR: Maybe she should start working now for him because he is having difficulty.
POVICH: I`d say.
BEHAR: Your show is number two after Oprah and number one in the demo. You beat her in the demographics -- for people who don`t know what that means, explain what the demographic is.
POVICH: There are three basic demographics. There`s an 18 to 34 demographic, there`s 18 to 49 demographic and there`s a 25 to 54. Ever since I went to these topics that you just alluded to, my audience has gotten younger and younger. And I keep getting older and older.
BEHAR: That doesn`t seem to matter.
POVICH: It defies every single thing in television research. I`m serious.
BEHAR: They don`t care if you are old. They just don`t want the audience to be old. Because once they decide on the toilet paper when they are 22, they`re never going to change the brand. That`s the philosophy behind all of that.
POVICH: I will give you a little known nugget about the secret to my early success. You know who my research consultant when I first started at Paramount?
BEHAR: Connie Chung.
POVICH: No, she was the overall -- no. She was the father and mother of everything. But Roger Ailes is my consultant.
BEHAR: Oh, yes. He is very good.
POVICH: Roger and I, thankfully, were on the same page that as I explained before, it is a campaign. You have to go out there --
BEHAR: Yes. And he knows what he`s doing. I mean I don`t happen to agree with Fox`s philosophy but Roger Ailes knows what he`s doing.
POVICH: Knows TV.
BEHAR: Yes, he does.
All right, Maury. Thanks so much for dropping by.
POVICH: Oh you`re the best Joy. It`s always good to see you.
BEHAR: I loved it.
Speaking of powerful women in TV, HLN`s Nancy Grace joins me next with some crime updates and to tell us about her new show, "SWIFT JUSTICE".
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Coming up a little later on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW. From Lady Gaga`s dress made of raw meat to Lindsey Lohan surprise cameo we`ll have all the latest dirt from last night`s MTV Video Music Awards.
Now back to Joy.
BEHAR: Well, she is known as a tough-talking former prosecutor who isn`t afraid to tell it like it is. And now she has a new show where she is the judge and jury. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NANCY GRACE, HLN`S HOST, "SWIFT JUSTICE WITH NANCY GRACE": You are trying to suggest I shouldn`t be angry? That you victimize people that are less strong or less cunning than you?
You have -- permanently scarred your child.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes --
GRACE: All right? And yes, I`m mad about it. Whether you are or whether you are not somebody in this room should be mad. Case closed.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Here with me now is the host of "SWIFT JUSTICE WITH NANCY GRACE". She also has a show right here on HLN, the one and only Miss Nancy Grace. Hello, Nancy.
GRACE: Hey, Joy.
BEHAR: So that guy was scared.
GRACE: He was like -- what?
BEHAR: He was scared of you.
GRACE: Well, you know what, I don`t like bullies. And he was a bully.
BEHAR: Right.
GRACE: And he got busted. He was cold-busted.
BEHAR: You notice how when somebody is bullied, they then bully the next one. And kick the dog, you know. I noticed that. People do that.
GRACE: And what surprised me is the wife just stood by and let it happen. Well, then you know what?
BEHAR: Yes.
GRACE: It`s not ok.
BEHAR: No.
GRACE: Yes, they can be afraid of the bully themselves. But once you have children, it`s your duty to protect them.
BEHAR: A lot of times children who are abused by their father are just as angry with their mother for standing and not doing anything.
GRACE: Exactly --
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: And I -- and I think --
GRACE: -- in fact a lot of times --
BEHAR: Yes.
GRACE: -- they blame the mother as much as they blame the father.
BEHAR: That`s right. You have to protect your children.
Now, just to start off, another topic, Oprah Winfrey, she`s -- she`s wrapping up 25 years on television. And this is her final year. And she is going over to her own network. I mean, are you going to become the new queen of talk show?
GRACE: I`m refusing to accept that Oprah is leaving. I don`t think it`s going to happen. Not in my world. I`m going to just keep watching her reruns that I`ve recorded. I can`t take it in that Oprah is going to leave. It`s not happening.
BEHAR: Well, it is happening, Nancy. Let`s get real here, ok? It`s happening and she`s going to be gone.
GRACE: Well, I think it`s going to wait and see Joy, but I don`t think anybody --
BEHAR: And it`s -- there`s going to be an opening. I`m trying to push you in that slot.
GRACE: I don`t think anybody can really fill that.
BEHAR: The "SWIFT JUSTICE."
GRACE: And they are looking for the next Oprah. They are looking for the new Oprah. The Hispanic Oprah, the Asian Oprah, there`s not going to be another Oprah, period.
BEHAR: Yes, she was a singular sensation. That`s true. But you have a new show, this "SWIFT JUSTICE" show which sounds very interesting.
GRACE: I love it.
BEHAR: It`s going to get you in the courtroom again without having to commit a crime. It`s a good thing, isn`t it?
GRACE: Well, you know what? It`s very similar to the days that I was in the courtroom. I love it. And what`s so great about it, Joy, is when they first approached me about a court show I could not imagine what could be different than Judge Judy -- the gold standard?
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Yes all of the other judges. There`s a million of them.
GRACE: Yes, there are a lot but she`s the one.
BEHAR: Yes.
GRACE: She is the queen of the courtroom. And -- and she deserves that title. So how can we do this without trying to pretend to be Judge Judy?
BEHAR: Right.
GRACE: You know what? We`re doing our own thing. There`s no fake robe, fake gavel, pretend sheriff sitting there with a fake background like its books. No. It`s the real thing. And we go beyond the litigants -- we don`t sit with just them. They bring on witnesses.
We`ve got, Joy -- you would love this. You`ve to come see the set. We`ve got these giant monitors that turn into electronic witness stands.
And we beam in witnesses from all over the country.
BEHAR: So they won`t be -- the witnesses won`t be there. They`ll be on these monitors.
GRACE: A lot of them are there.
BEHAR: But you can satellite them in or whatever it is.
GRACE: That`s right and we do. Witnesses, experts, blood spatter, DNA, handwriting -- let me see those notes. I might need them for a case against you in the future -- handwriting analysis, body language and my personal favorite, the lie detector.
There are cases that I stop right in the middle of hearing it and say, you know what, I think you`re both lying. So let`s just strap everybody up to the old polygraph lie detector.
BEHAR: Strap them up.
GRACE: And we decide --
BEHAR: But isn`t -- that`s not admissible in court. A lie detector - -
GRACE: Jury`s -- lie detectors are admissible in court if both parties stipulate in advance that they will agree to them coming in.
So --
BEHAR: Oh. Well, why would someone do that if he`s a liar?
GRACE: Exactly. That`s why nobody ever stipulates. They know they`re lying.
BEHAR: Exactly.
GRACE: But at "Swift", you know, that`s the deal.
BEHAR: Yes.
GRACE: If you are --
BEHAR: It sounds interesting. Because it sounds like you really there to solve the mystery of the crime instead of just people yelling and --
GRACE: It really is.
BEHAR: Yes.
GRACE: And not only that, I mean Joy --
BEHAR: Yes.
GRACE: -- the other thing is, I had a guy the other day he created a whole new identity in another state. Not for another woman. Not for drugs. Because he was an addicted gambler and he took a job -- he`s really highly intelligent.
BEHAR: So put himself in his own witness protection program.
GRACE: No, he started a whole new bank account, credit cards, everything so he wouldn`t have a line credit, his wife and child would not find out about.
BEHAR: That`s nice --
GRACE: At the end of the show he admitted he loved gambling more than his wife or his little girl.
BEHAR: Well, all addictions take --
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: He could (INAUDIBLE) gambling addictions.
BEHAR: -- you know, all addictions take precedence over all relationships.
GRACE: They do.
BEHAR: That`s what a drug counselor a friend of mine told me that.
GRACE: It`s true.
BEHAR: And it`s a fact.
And now, I saw a clip from the show where you`re hugging someone. Are you getting soft or were you giving them the Heimlich maneuver?
GRACE: No, not getting soft. They deserved it.
BEHAR: They deserved the hug?
GRACE: They deserved the hug.
BEHAR: So you`re going to have those moments of hugging?
GRACE: Well, it`s just like everything in a real court room. You know, no case is cut and dry. And --
BEHAR: But the judge doesn`t hug the litigants.
GRACE: Well, that`s their problem.
BEHAR: Well, I`ve never heard of that. But I think that you`re just going to be your own original thing.
GRACE: It is original. And you know what? I don`t think I would ever have embarked on it if it were not original. And real and new and stood for something.
BEHAR: So you`ll hug but you`ll also not literally but figuratively slap.
GRACE: Slap -- there`s a lot of justice being handed down, Joy.
BEHAR: Ok, all right.
GRACE: A lot of justices going down in that court and it`s "Swift".
BEHAR: Ok.
We`ll be back with more from Nancy Grace in just a minute.
I`m not scared of you.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: I`m back with the indomitable Nancy Grace. When I say the name --
GRACE: I can`t believe this is the chair Carol Burnett sat in. You know.
BEHAR: It is. It is.
GRACE: I watched that show. We played it back three times -- huge.
BEHAR: That was a fun interview for me too. I enjoy her. She is so great. She is one of a kind, too. All the originals that come on this show.
GRACE: Yes.
BEHAR: Now, when I say the name Joran Van Der Sloot what comes to your mind?
GRACE: Did you say Urine Van Der Sloot? Did you say urine? Ok. I try to avoid that tiny pit fall. I say Joran. I know that`s also wrong but it is not urine.
BEHAR: But I think it`s Joran.
GRACE: It`s something like that.
BEHAR: So what do you -- what words come to mind when you hear his name?
GRACE: Well, obviously killer.
BEHAR: Killer.
GRACE: But not only that, a miscarriage of justice because Natalee Holloway`s mother, an American girl, an innocent American girl, an honor student, a good girl, was murdered, brutally, alone. She had nobody to help her.
In Aruba, the government of Aruba has done nothing but obfuscate the law. And this is their fault -- Joran Van Der Sloot is their fault.
BEHAR: The Aruba government you blame also.
GRACE: The government -- everyone there.
BEHAR: So you are sure he killed her?
GRACE: I have no doubt in my mind. He also killed Stephany Tatiana (ph), the Peruvian girl that he murdered.
BEHAR: Flores. Isn`t her name Flores?
GRACE: Stephany Tatiana Flores. That`s her first and middle name --
BEHAR: So you think he killed her, too?
GRACE: I have no doubt in my mind that he killed her.
BEHAR: Why can`t they nail him? I mean he`s recently admitted to feeling guilty. Why doesn`t he say what he is guilty about?
GRACE: What he`s alluding to feeling guilty, like I care about his emotions, is that he tried to extort the Holloway family to the tune of a quarter million dollars. The only reason he`s admitting guilt or feeling guilty about it is he`s caught dead red-handed on audio, on video, witnesses. John Q. Kelly set the whole thing up -- he`s a great, great lawyer. And they busted him.
So when he finishes in Peru, if he ever does, he will come here for a little home cooking.
BEHAR: I see.
Now, let`s talk about this -- did you read that story about the bride who pretended she got cancer?
GRACE: I covered it.
BEHAR: Oh, you did.
GRACE: You probably did not see my show that day?
BEHAR: I must have been out with Carol Burnett that night.
GRACE: Ok. That I will completely forgive.
Ok. This woman pretended to have stage four cancer -- an extremely aggressive form of cancer so she could get donations for her wedding. She got a designer wedding dress. She got all of the wedding photography, deluxe photography -- the whole kit and caboodle for free, an all-paid expense trip to the Caribbean on their honeymoon -- everything, the food, catering, everything.
BEHAR: Did she tell it to her husband, too?
GRACE: She lied to her husband. In fact, I brought with -- I have it here on the set somewhere -- I had been looking at the letter she wrote to herself pretending it was from the doctor. I counted up 11 grammatical errors. I thought, "Some doctor". She wrote this to try to convince her husband about her treatment. It was just --
BEHAR: What was she planning do when they found out that she did not have cancer?
GRACE: Oh, she`ll say she`s healed.
BEHAR: She`s in remission.
GRACE: She`s cured.
BEHAR: I love that.
GRACE: She said that eating right, drinking nothing but water and exercising cured her.
BEHAR: Oh, yes. Oh good. Let her tell that to some people who are suffering --
GRACE: That`s good news for all those cancer patients who are suffering for that.
BEHAR: You know what? I have a good feeling about your new show. I think it`s going to be fabulous. Thanks.
GRACE: You know what? You kicked it off in a lot of good light.
BEHAR: And I`m thrilled that you`re here today. So thanks for doing that.
GRACE: Thank you Miss Joy.
BEHAR: You can catch Nancy Grace right here on HLN every night at 8:00 p.m. And her new show "SWIFT JUSTICE" airs Monday through Friday. You have to check your local listings for that.
GRACE: That`s syndicated.
BEHAR: It is syndicated. We`ll be back in a minute.
Oh, syndicated.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: The NFL`s investigating allegations that some of the New York Jets sexually harassed sports reporter Inez Sainz. Jets head coach Rex Ryan allegedly engaged in weird on field antics with Sainz during practice on Saturday. And others hit her with cat calls and suggestive comments when she entered the locker room afterwards. With me now to talk about the ordeal in prime time exclusive is Inez Sainz. Ines, what type of bad behavior and comments were you subjected to at practice on Saturday?
INES SAINZ, SPORTS NEWS REPORTER, TV AZTECA: Hi, hello, nice to be with you. Well, what I tried to explain is that on Saturday when I arrived to the locker rooms, what I pretend to do is not hear anything and go straight to my job with my interview with Mark Sanchez. But obviously in the environment we feel that everybody is starting to make noises and expressions about myself. But I have eight years working in this kind of place in Mexico and Europe and earned my part. So I decided that it is better to go to focus on my job and don`t pay attention. What really happened next is that one of my colleagues, one of the media workers, also a female, came with me and told me I really sorry, it doesn`t -- must not happen. And I very, very feel bad for you. So I -- I responded to her it doesn`t matter. Don`t worry. I not pay attention. I only want to make my job and that`s it.
BEHAR: Yes.
SAINZ: But I really think that she hear and the rest of the media hear a lot of things that I didn`t hear.
BEHAR: They did. You tweeted you were dying of embarrassment but never felt attacked. So let me ask you something else. Now were you encouraged to call yourself the hottest reporter in Mexico? Did you give yourself that name? Or did your employers tell you to do that?
SAINZ: Well, actually in Mexico, it is not asked us to get to the locker rooms. When I say I am embarrassed -- I feel uncomfortable here, it is because I was, in a -- obviously, in a very complicated situation because it is a lot of men around and one of those are naked. So my camera men say, don`t turn around here. Don`t turn around there. So I didn`t. But that`s not the important point. The important point is what they are saying in the media that I was in the locker room. So I must say that but I tried or I pretend to not hear anything. I pretend to not move and not to try to be --
BEHAR: Yes what I`m -- Ines, what I`m driving at is that some people are saying that when you call yourself the hottest reporter in Mexico, and you are wearing tight jeans, et cetera, that people say that you shouldn`t be shocked if the men respond to you with cat calls. How do you respond to that?
SAINZ: No, absolutely, no. I think -- I have one style. I make like -- I don`t know, over 250 interviews. One-on-one with the best players in the world for the different sports. And it is my style. I only use for the -- for one kind of thing, I use the jeans and I use -- a regular shirt. And I make the joke. When I immediate to do another kind of cover, I dress different. But I don`t believe that my dress is the point of the dispute here. Because I do not anything to provoke and it the team -- or the players. I believe that I only go to work, my job. And if the jeans are not in the way they like it or not, that`s not my problem.
BEHAR: OK, thanks very much, Ines, for checking in with us on this.
SAINZ: No thank you.
BEHAR: OK, good luck.
SAINZ: Thank you and I want to -- yes. If you let me, I want to thanks to the NFL because they are very concerned about the subject and make the investigation. And also that the Jets owner because he -- he called me on Sunday and made -- bring me apologies for all the team. And he said he`s going to be very sure to respect everything.
BEHAR: OK. OK. Very good. Thanks, Ines. Last night`s video music awards on MTV created more than a couple of controversies. Lady Gaga gave new term to skirt steak. And Will I Am showed up in black face. He`s black, isn`t that redundant. It`s like Sarah Palin wearing a dump cap. And fresh out of rehab, Lindsay Lohan opened the show with host Chelsea Handler, take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LINDSAY LOHAN, ACTRESS: Hello, Chelsea.
CHELSEA HANDLER: Hey, Lindsay.
LOHAN: Have you been drinking?
HAMLET: No.
LOHAN: Really? Then where is your ankle bracelet going off?
HANDLER: Oh that just means my table is ready at the Cheesecake Factory.
LOHAN: Wake up, Handler. Pull it together! You are a mess! Do you think anyone wants to work with a drunk? Take it from me, they don`t.
HANDLER: OK, OK. You turned your life around. Maybe I can, too.
LOHAN: That`s the spirit, kid. Now go get them.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: With me to discuss this heartbreaking story is Robert Verdi, celebrity stylist and co-creator of firstcomesfashion.com or firstcamefashion --
ROBERT, VERDI, CELEBRITY STYLIST: firstcamefasion.com
BEHAR: firstcamefashion.com. Alison Rosen writer and pop culture analyst and Sheryl Lee Ralph, actress and founder of "Divas Simply Singing." Welcome to the show you guys.
SHERYL LEE RALPH, ACTRESS: Thank you.
BEHAR: Did you think that was funny?
VERDI: I didn`t think it was that funny at all, no.
RALPH: It wasn`t funny because Lindsay Lohan, believe it or not, is still in the middle of her own personal mess. Trust me, she -- too soon -
VERDI: Too soon.
RALPH: Too soon and if it is not true, and she`s OK, then she is the greatest actress in the whole world. Give her an award.
VERDI: Takes a long time to come out on the other side.
BEHAR: But - now is she doing her comeback with some of this?
ALISON ROSEN, WRITER: Well, I do think it is too soon to believe this is a real comeback. Like I would not place money on the fact she turned over a new leaf. I hope she has. But it is just she sticks - or problems stick to her. I thought it was funny, though. I didn`t fall out of my chair or anything. Like the ankle bracelet thing was classy --
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: To the cheesecake reference.
VERDI: I think what you want to see when a celebrity who has been in prison and has done all of these --
RALPH: She wasn`t in prison long enough.
VERDI: She wasn`t in prison long enough but -
RALPH: Thank you -
BEHAR: But she was there for a little while.
VERDI: Is sync up with something great they are doing. Rather than just be patronizing and saying I`m out and I`m OK. If she had a movie released that was critically acclaim. Like she did something great.
BEHAR: Why wouldn`t she do something like this? That would be smart.
ROSEN: This is sad this is the juiciest thing she`s been offered right now.
BEHAR: What the VMA awards -
ROSEN: I think making fun of herself.
BEHAR: Let`s move on to Lady Gaga, as usual, she had several crazy costume changes. When Cher presented her the award for video of the year. She wore a dress made of raw meat. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHER, SINGER: Lady Gaga.
LADY GAGA, SINGER: I never thought I would be asking Cher to hold my meat purse.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RALPH: Wow.
BEHAR: How does she get past the bomb-sniffing dogs? Wouldn`t they have eaten her outfit?
ROSEN: That`s what I was wondering.
(CROSSTALK)
RALPH: It is kind of scary. The vegan in me says wow, that stink. That really spells, decomp --
VERDI: I`m vegetarian and gay. So imagine what that looks like to me. Wow.
BEHAR: Did she go too far this time do you think or what?
ROSEN: I don`t think so. I think this is what we expect of her. I mean, I think this is the most talked about thing that came out -
BEHAR: That`s true.
ROSEN: Of a boring awards show, was this dress. I do think that - I know you guys, as vegans and vegetarians are sort outraged over this dress.
VERDI: I was kidding, I didn`t mean it.
ROSEN: Oh OK.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: The whole thing -
ROSEN: This is an amazing ruse. But PETA is upset about the dress.
BEHAR: They are.
ROSEN: I don`t really understand that because I think if she were to have come out in like a satin dress or something - that doesn`t send a message. If anything this is sort of an anti-animal -
BEHAR: Yes.
ROSEN: Or anti-meat statement. Because I don`t think she is saying this is what everyone should be wearing. It`s - she is saying - that fashion is brutal
BEHAR: Like it is treated like a piece of meat.
ROSEN: Yes.
BEHAR: I mean Joan Rivers saying what were you wearing? Bore`s head.
(LAUGHTER)
ROSEN: And can you wear pork after Labor Day?
VERDI: I think that the pork chop dress would have been a better choice. And I think the prosciutto panties may have been itching.
RALPH: But I really thought it was sort of a marbleized silk. Who knew that it was really raw meat and it was marbleized for real.
BEHAR: But you have to give her credit. She gets attention all the time with these crazy outfits and she is a talented girl.
VERDI: Yes.
BEHAR: Now Will I Am, he appeared with what some people are calling black face. But look at this outfit. It is not really -- it is like a whole thing from head to toe.
VERDI: It is not black face. I feel like it is super futuristic. Superkalafragalistic - it is super futuristic espialodocious.
(LAUGHTER)
VERDI: I don`t think of that as black face at all. It doesn`t have the hallmarks of what we know to be --
BEHAR: It doesn`t have the other parts --
RALPH: Because he is black. The question is am I black enough for you? Why yes, you are now. With all of that makeup that he has on.
BEHAR: Do you think that`s what he is trying to say?
RALPH: It has to be something like that because it is artistic black. I mean, if you notice the black in his jacket matches the black he put on his face.
BEHAR: Yes.
RALPH: So maybe he was just trying to match the whole thing. But it definitely wasn`t like the racial black face where we are used to. It wasn`t that.
BEHAR: right, that`s true -
(CROSSTALK)
ROSEN: It wasn`t minstrel.
RALPH: It was not minstrel at all.
ROSEN: Right. But it is ridiculous, if putting black makeup on your face is black face, then when I -- I put eyeliner on I`m putting black face on my eyes.
RALPH: Well no, if you came out in the makeup that you had on - we might say something, that`s black face. But what he had on was I think more of an artistic choice of black.
BEHAR: OK, OK, that`s true, now what would the VMAs do without some kind of drama between Kanye and Taylor Swift? Each of them debut a new song that confronted last year`s mike-grabbing incident. So let`s watch that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TAYLOR SWIFT, SINGER: Flames to embers you`ll have no September every one of us is messed up too -
KANYE WEST: The toast douche bags. Let`s have a toast for (EXPLICATIVE DELETED) toast for the scum bags
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: He has scum bags in there, douche bags and everything out. So eat your heart out Walt Whitman.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: Are they trying to make amends or are they milking it? Which is it?
VERDI: Milking it -
RALPH: I think they are milking it. Absolutely milking it and you know there is that fine line between famous and infamous. And certain people are just going towards the infamous behavior. And I think at some point we just have to get tired of it. When can we just be good people once again? Douche bags? Give me a break.
BEHAR: I know, it is not even fascinating or interesting -
RALPH: Come on --
VERDI: The meat dress was better.
RALPH: The meat dress was much better.
BEHAR: At least we know she is making a statement of some kind of I don`t know what this was. But thanks, everybody, very much. We will be back in a minute.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: Newt Gingrich said this weekend "That the only way to understand Obama is to understand his Kenyan anti-colonial behavior," quote, unquote. Can you drop it with the Kenya stuff already Newt? Enough is enough. And is he trying to appeal to the French and is it working? Here with me now is James Carville, Democratic strategist and CNN political reporter. And Kate Zernike author of "Boiling Mad." Welcome guys. James, I`m so thrilled to see you here. You know, I`m a huge fan of yours.
JAMES CARVILLE, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST AND CNN POLITICAL: Thank you, thank you. All right.
BEHAR: Yes. Now, this is his full statement, newt`s statement. Quote, "What if [Obama] is so outside of our comprehension, that only if you understand Kenyan, anti-colonial behavior, can you begin to piece together [his actions]?" Why does he have to put Obama and Kenyan in the same sentence? What is he up to?
CARVILLE: I don`t know, I guess, I don`t know. Where do pro colonial forces out there. Everywhere I go, the people that say I`m really for colonialism. We have to bring the Reich that back to India.
BEHAR: Bring the Reich back.
CARVILLE: I don`t know -- I`m not sure. This must be like -- must be pro-colonial sleepers out there. You know - BEHAR: Yes
CARVILLE: Maybe we can, you know -- Castro dies and get the Spanish back in Cuba or something.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: Yes, that would be a great day. Now --
CARVILLE: Perhaps the Portuguese can come back to Brazil.
BEHAR: Robert Gibbs responded -- let me just do this. Newt is trying to appeal to the friend of people that don`t think the president was born in this country. Do you think that it is kind -- not that much disguise, racist kind of thing to say?
CARVILLE: Well, you know, I -- I don`t believe that -- I don`t -- I know speaker Gingrich. He is a smart man that says stupid things. I think this is the instance --
BEHAR: I know. That`s right.
CARVILLE: I don`t want to ascribe by -- I will let him answer to that. But I have no idea where the pro-colonial forces are but I`m sure there are some.
BEHAR: We will try to look for them. He called Obama a con man. What`s the purpose of this bashing of Obama? Will it backfire on him, the Republicans?
CARVILLE: I think he`s -- angling a run for president. And I`m sure we will get into conversation. Sometimes he can`t say anything too crazy over there on the Right. And I think everybody is -- some kind of a poker game where there`s no stopping the ante on you know how many of crazy Obama things they can say. He`s raising somebody else`s ante out there. That`s the best I can determine.
BEHAR: Kate. Well also, Obama -- President Obama was saying that the other day -- he said treating me like a dog.
KATE ZERNIKE, AUTHOR, "BOILING MAD": Well absolutely. At this tea party rally over the weekend there was somebody carrying a picture of Obama with a dog ear saying woof, woof, sit, sit, stop spending. I mean some of the stuff is really crazy out there.
BEHAR: Is Newt Gingrich a tea party type of candidate?
ZERNIKE: No and I think that`s where he makes a mistake. He makes a mistake assuming that the fringe - yes, there`s fringe in every movement. The fringe doesn`t define the tea party. I think that`s where he makes his mistake in thinking he will get a bunch of people to his side by saying things like this. I don`t think that it is the mainstream.
BEHAR: You don`t.
ZERNIKE: No. Not remote.
BEHAR: I they are going to help the Republicans more than the Democrats.
ZERNIKE: Absolutely.
BEHAR: Right. Yes. James, do you -- go ahead. Go ahead.
CARVILLE: no. I guess -- we did the democracy call. We started it, the focus group in polls. It strikes me that one of the very few movements where the candidate actually are nuttier than the people in it. I mean if the you look at -- the people in it more mainstream than the candidates they have in Delaware, the one in Nevada, the one in Alaska, for that matter. It is kind of strange. Usually you have a movement that has a lot of energy and the sort of people at the top are trying to, like -- calm down the masses. Here, it is just the opposite.
BEHAR: Yes.
CARVILLE: I mean, the -- this in Delaware running against confess to the self-abuse. Wow.
BEHAR: Let`s talk about Palin and the tea party.
ZERNIKE: Yes.
BEHAR: Do they like her?
ZERNIKE: No. In fact, the reports that James was talking about, the (inaudible) core reports found the same things that we found in the poll that`s in my book, which is that tea partiers don`t necessarily think Sarah Palin`s qualified to be president. They are like a lot of Americans. You know they like her. She rallies up the crowd but they don`t want her to be president. They are looking at boring people. Not boring people but Mitch Daniels who is the governor of Indiana and a real fiscal guy. And they think Chris Christie is great because he`s come in and whacked the government in New Jersey.
BEHAR: Oh the Jersey governor -
ZERNIKE: Yes they think that is great. But Sarah Palin is like an entertainer to them. They love her but they don`t want her to be president.
BEHAR: You notice, James, Palin and Beck have gone religious now. They are about Jesus and god all of a sudden. Is this like another movement?
CARVILLE: Riding on up, but they do love Beck. They think he`s actually an educator.
ZERNIKE: They do.
CARVILLE: They love beck. They said he is a real educator. They think he is a scholar.
ZERNIKE: They call him the professor.
BEHAR: Really? He is going to implode -- I expect him to implode any minute now, frankly.
CARVILLE: But the tea party -- I think that we are both staying on the same page here. Their members are actually more pragmatic and practical than the candidate. Which I just find that kind of odd. I mean, Sharon Angle thinks the players don`t play black jerseys like the Saints. That`s a sign - I mean they get into really weird stuff.
ZERNIKE: Yes, they do.
CARVILLE: The candidates do. Not just the personality, you know.
BEHAR: Well let`s talk about John Boehner. I saw him on the Sunday morning show.
ZERNIKE: Right.
BEHAR: And he said he would support the Democrats` plan to let the Bush tax cuts lapse and for America`s richest people. Is he becoming more reasonable or is this just a strategy?
ZERNIKE: No. I think he left himself a good qualifier. Saying something like if it is the only thing I have to do. If it is the only course. But I think the Republicans are still going to object. They will find a way to object on this.
BEHAR: I want to talk more about him when we come back. So hang in there for a second. OK, James?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: I`m back with my political panel. OK we are talking about John Boehner. He`s saying -- James, he`s saying that he -- he wants to keep tax cuts for all. Right? Isn`t that what it said?
CARVILLE: Yes. Right.
BEHAR: But he also said -- if push comes to shove and -- he will go along with Obama`s idea to cut taxes for people who are -- only the people that make under $250,000. If he had to. What`s he up to? Because that makes it sound like he`s suddenly interested in poor people.
CARVILLE: I don`t know. Sometimes you can ascribe to a lot of --
BEHAR: Middle class.
CARVILLE: Maybe he is making something that came out of his mouth and I think they are trying to walk it back a little bit. But he`s a reasonable guy. He is -- couple of cigarettes, you know. Eleven handicap kind of guy. It is not like he`s out in -- that`s his kind of nature, human being. He`s being pushed pretty hard by members of his caucus, that if this election goes like it looks like it will go, it will get pushed a lot harder.
BEHAR: You know what do you think James, I don`t have a lot of time with you. And I want to drain you right now. What do you think that President Obama should do? I mean, we are at the -- we are on a tipping point, I think, for him. What should he do?
CARVILLE: well, I think that they got a little bit of change in strategy that`s true. They are coming out more and more middle class. I think he immediate to get away from the stuff what they are doing, you know, working and nobody believes that. And run very hard at the Republicans. The Republicans are still enormously unpopular out there. I tell people, you know, people coming in, I want to send a message to Washington. You are not going to send a me message. You will send a Republican to Washington. That`s -- you have to frame it more in those terms. But, you know, this is a -- you know, this is -- going to be a bad year for Democrats. And hopefully not going to be an awful year. But there`s campaigning left do. It seems the White House is getting a little sharp out there with the message in time.
BEHAR: How is it that people like Glenn Beck, people like him, can convince people who are middle class, lower middle, even poor people, to vote for Republicans? When they are not -- the Republicans are not there to help these people. How do they do it?
ZERNIKE: Well, look --
CARVILLE: They have been doing -- I`m sorry. Go ahead.
ZERNIKE: No, no, no -
BEHAR: You start.
ZERNIKE: I was just going to say I think that you know people are fed up. They see the -- Republicans were in power starting in 1994. And spending kept going up. Democrats in power now for four years.
BEHAR: Right.
ZERNIKE: People think OK, it is their fault. It is just -- you know, they are looking for someone to blame.
BEHAR: I know but it is not going to help them if republicans are in power. It is not going to help these people. Right?
ZERNIKE: But I don`t think they see it as --
BEHAR: Go ahead, James.
CARVILLE: Well there`s no doubt. All of the -- it will show people will do much better under the Democrats. There has been a lot of angst and a lot written about this. How many will be voting Democratic or Republican. But Glenn Beck has sort of given them a kind of a context in which to view. They don`t believe in god enough and they believe in government too much. And what we need is more god and less government here.
BEHAR: Uh huh, yes.
CARVILLE: And that gives them some kind of a - some kind of a context to say look, what`s happened in our lives is in comes -- income has gone down significantly in this country since 2001. And people lost the value of their houses and lost the value of their retirement and savings account and they got to blame somebody. Glenn Beck is convinced to blame government and not god.
BEHAR: OK. Thanks very much, James, Kate. James, come to New York and sit with me. OK? And thank you all for watching. Good night, everybody.
END
