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Interview With Donald Trump; Interview With Phil McGraw

Aired September 13, 2010 - 21:00   ET


LARRY KING, HOST: Tonight, Donald Trump. So opposed to the planned Islamic center near Ground Zero, he's offered to buy the site. Now that his bid's been rejected, what if anything will the mogul do to stop the mosque?

Plus, Dr. Phil. He wants to end once and for all two problems tearing society apart. Bullying and domestic violence. And he'll let us in on what he's told Oprah as her TV show comes to an end.


It's always great to welcome back Dr. Phil McGraw to LARRY KING LIVE, the psychologist, number one "New York Times" best-selling author and the host of "Dr. Phil."

As he begins his ninth season of the syndicated show, Oprah begins her 25th and final year of her iconic television show.

Here's a sample of today's Oprah excitement. Watch.


OPRAH WINFREY, TV HOST: Wonderful. Don, how are you?


WINFREY: You're going to Australia.


KING: She helped make you famous. How do you feel about her leaving?


KING: She's not leaving, she's going top her own network, though.

MCGRAW: That's right. And -- but I can certainly answer the first question. She is one of my dearest and most valued friends.

You know, I spent five years on the "Oprah Show" and then nine years on the show that she created and launched. And I knew her for two years before that. So I mean --

KING: You testified for her, right?

MCGRAW: Well, I did the trial strategy for her case up in Amarillo with the mad cow case. And so I got to know Oprah away from television, just as a person. And I confess to say I had never seen an "Oprah Winfrey" show when I started working with her.

I mean, anybody on the planet knows who she is, I'd see a minute here or there, but I was always working that time of day, so I'd never seen the show. And so I got to know her in a very different way than most people.

And just immediately, our whole family fell in love with her and embraced her and she remains a great friend today.

KING: How do you explain her longevity?

MCGRAW: Well, first, she is one of a kind. You know, there are many of us that do things on television, but Oprah told me one time, she said, you know what, I'm like a viewer with a microphone. I ask the questions that I think everybody wants to know the answers to.

And people have asked me so often, is she as real and warm as she appears on television? And my answer is, no, she's more real, she's more warm. I mean you spend time with her. She is the most unassuming person you'd ever want to meet, and I feel so blessed to have had her in my life.

KING: Now we understand one of the series planned for her new network is a six-part documentary she's going to show next year called "Finding Sarah," involving Sarah Ferguson trying to rebuild her life and you're going to have a role in that, right?

MCGRAW: Yes, I am.

KING: What is your role?

MCGRAW: Well, I think everybody knows that she has had some really difficult times in her life. And Oprah has asked me to kind of help her find her way back to being who she is and using the gifts and skills and talents that she has.

And, you know, I suppose someone from British royalty and me could not be more different. And we're going to have some very candid sit-down conversations and I'm going to tell her what I think she needs to do to be everything that she can be and offer everything that she has to offer.

KING: Haven't done it yet, though?

MCGRAW: Have not done it yet. We're getting ready to start very soon. And I'm looking forward to it and I'm proud that they've asked me to do it.

KING: Your new season kicks off now, right?

MCGRAW: It does. I mean today. We actually launched the new season today. It's our ninth season, and I have to say, I have never seen my staff -- and I know you're proud of your staff, but I'm proud of mine. I think I've got the best staff in television.

And I have never seen them more focused and more passionate than they are this year. Because, Larry, right now --

KING: You gave them raises?


MCGRAW: You didn't have to ask that.



MCGRAW: I think the thing is, they realized that what we do is so much more relevant, even than when we started. Because there's so much stress, so much pressure in people's lives right now with the economy, just the pace of our lives.

KING: By the way, your 60th birthday is Friday, right?


MCGRAW: We're celebrating that on the show on Friday.

KING: I may -- I taped an appearance.

MCGRAW: You did. And a great one. Everybody got a kick out of it. We had a big birthday party. And let me tell you, I'm hard to surprise and it's hard to render me speechless, but my wife gave me a present at that party that shocked me in a way that I have never been shocked before.

I'm not going to tell you what it is. I'm not going to tell you what it is, because it will be on the show Friday, but it was astounding. It was just amazing.

KING: Now, you see, you know how to clue a show, right?

MCGRAW: That's the -- but it's the truth. I was -- for once in my life, I was speechless.

KING: Now we understand you're devoting a lot of this to bullying and violence. Are they hooked?

MCGRAW: You know, Larry, I remember the first interview I did about the "Dr. Phil" show nine years ago before we went on the air, and he said, what are you going to do? And I said, one of the things I'm going to do is talk about the silent epidemics in America.

Those things that are so important, but don't get a lot of airtime. And one of those things is domestic violence. It's one of the most underreported phenomenons in America. And we are launching a campaign called "End the Silence on Domestic Violence," and I'm taking the fight to all fronts.

I'm testifying before Congress about this, for some reauthorization of some key legislation. I've been asked to come there and speak on that.

We're creating curriculums for the schools so these boys can be taught that this is not OK. That you don't do this. And what abuse is. It's not just physical. It's mental, emotional. It's isolation, it's control.

We're taking it to our platform and asking our viewers to help out and join us. It's what I call Silencebreakers. So when something comes and I need -- I'll be able to send one e-mail and have millions of people that write their congressmen.

KING: Today's debut program, as we understand it, was entitled "The End of Silence," right, that begins all this?

MCGRAW: "End of Silence on Domestic Violence."

KING: Let's take a look at what you're going to see.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He struck me in the head four times, and then he threw gasoline at me, grabbed a candle, and tossed the candle at me. And I went up in flames. And then I began to pray, god, just let me live, just let me live.

I spun up, open the garage, and I ran out. And this neighbor ran to me, as I was rolling in the grass, and hit me with her son's jacket. That was it. He'll never take away my future. He'll never take away my happiness. He'll never take away my character.

You wanted the beauty? Take it. You can have it.

MCGRAW: Now Audrey is brave enough to be here today. She's showing her face for the first time on television.

Audrey, come on out.


KING: Has this problem increased? If it's silent, are there figures on it?

MCGRAW: That's -- you're exactly right, it has increased. Larry, because of the economic stress that are on people right now, it trickles down into their marriages. And we are seeing upticks in people that are turning to shelters and turning to hotlines, going to, which is a great resource site, and the National Hotline on Domestic Violence.

In some communities, we're seeing upticks of 300, 400 percent. I mean, because there's so much stress, they're turning on one another and it's breaking down into violence. And as I say, I want people to understand, it's not just physical violence.

I mean, if you degrade someone, you isolate them, you control them, you call them names, you demean them. That's a horrible existence for people. And what we're trying to do is help women understand what is abuse and how to handle it in a safe and secure way.

The number one time that women in abusive situations get killed is when they separate from their abuser. It's called separation assault. So we have to be very careful on how they get out, so we're giving them an exit plan on how to do this safely and securely. You do not want to confront your abuser.

KING: Dr. Phil, by the way, is answering your questions. Send them to or

More with the good doctor right after this.



UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I just don't have it anymore in me. I don't know what happened. I lost it and it's just safer and easier just for me to just stay in my bed. I don't -- I feel very secure right there in that spot.

MCGRAW: So you feeling safe and secure is more important to you than raising your children?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, I feel so guilty. I feel horrible.

MCGRAW: Look at these girls.


MCGRAW: If that's not enough to get you out of bed, something's seriously wrong.



KING: If it is silent, why do these people come forward?

MCGRAW: Well, you know, I think that one of the things that I've been so proud about in my years on television is I wanted to open up the dialogue about mental health in America.

And when we do shows on domestic violence, I think we open that dialogue. We give people permission to reach out and ask.

The clip that you just saw is from what I think is the most compelling series we've ever done. It's the "Dr. Phil Housewives." And I have six women that I am going to work with all season long. And I sit down with them. And interestingly, you know how much research we do for our show, just as you do here. For every show, I get a notebook that's 200, 250 pages thick. With these six women, I didn't know one thing about them until I sat down with them.

I'm going to unfold this with the viewer. I'm learning about them the same time the viewer is. And we're going to react to what comes up during that time. And these are some of the most interesting and courageous women that I think I've ever met.

KING: Why do you think they're coming forward?

MCGRAW: I think they want something out of their life that they're not getting. You know, think about it. Larry, when -- as the clock's ticking, you know, we were just talking about me just turning 60 -- thanks for bringing that up -- we realize that the clock is ticking.

And I think some people are realizing, look, my life is passing me by, my family is passing me by, and I want some help with this. I want to do something different and I think they want to talk to somebody that put words in their sentence, and that's me.

KING: You also deal with a different kind of domestic violence, kind of a psychological -- they don't hit you, they bully you.

MCGRAW: Well, you know, we see our kids so much today. You know, when you and I grew up, there were schoolyard bullies, right? I mean there was always some kid that was bigger than the rest or he was just more obnoxious.

But I think in this day and time, the bullies are not just on the schoolyards. They're on the Internet. And we've seen it with the Phoebe story that took her life, and so many others that we've all covered and talked about.

And remember the commercials where they used to say, Bing, it's 10:00, do you know where your children are?

KING: Yes.

Internet They were talking about, are they out in the yard, are they down at the corner, are they out in the mall? Do you know where your kids are?

Now we have to know where they are in cyberspace. Because you've got a child back in the bedroom and you think they're back there doing their homework or watching TV. They could be in a social networking site or in a chat room getting bullied, getting called names, getting -- having people tell them that they wished they were dead.

So the schoolyard's gotten a whole lot bigger. It now includes the Internet. And -- used to be you could say, all right, we're going to change schools and get a fresh start. But the Internet goes with you now. So there are some unique challenges --

KING: How do you solve that?

MCGRAW: Well, the problem is, you've got to -- you've got to stay on top of what your children are doing. Know where they are at 10:00 in cyberspace. Know what chatrooms they're going to. Know what people are saying to them and about them.

This is not just kids being kids. Lives are being lost, Larry.

KING: Spy on them?

MCGRAW: You've got to spy on them. And look, it's not -- even if it's a child you trust, you always give them more rope than you do a child that has taught you not to trust them. But you have to be careful that they're not back there isolated. They won't come and tell you they're being bullied because of shame and guilt.

I testified before Congress in August about this because we're wanting to expand some of the legislation to include cyber bullying. We've got to change with the times. We've got to fund the education system so we can -- we can prepare teachers to teach kids how to handle this thing.

KING: Is it a crime to bully on the --

MCGRAW: You know, the problem is --


MCGRAW: The problem is we have such great protection in America under the First Amendment, and people's right to this freedom of speech that you have a very difficult time in prosecuting it.

But my question is, where are the parents of the bullies? How do you not know that your child is a bully? How do you not know that your child is telling somebody that you hope they die? How do you not know that they're taking their lunch money or being mean?

Parents need to dial in and know what their kids are doing.

KING: Dr. Phil is our guest, he's always terrific. And he'll stay with us, but when we come back, Donald Trump will be here. We'll discuss the Islamic community center controversy, next.


KING: Donald Trump is the famed real estate developer, entrepreneur, Emmy-nominated star and co-producer of NBC's "The Apprentice" and "Celebrity Apprentice."

The new season of "The Apprentice" kicks off Thursday night.

Dr. Phil remains with us, and later in our interview with Donald Trump, we'll have Dr. Phil join us to talk about his thoughts on "The Apprentice."

But right now, we want --- Donald, thanks for being with us. DONALD TRUMP, REAL ESTATE MOGUL, PRODUCER: Well, thank you very much, Larry. Your show with Phil is fantastic, by the way.

KING: Thank you. Let's get over -- let's start with the debate over the location. Where do we stand with that? You wanted to buy it -- give us a little history of what you wanted to do and where it is now.

TRUMP: Well, there's tremendous bedlam and tremendous angst going on amid downtown Manhattan. I mean you see people, thousands and thousands of people, and they're literally close to rioting. It's really a terrible thing that's happening.

And I'm a very big believer in freedom of religion and I think people should have the right to build mosques or temples or churches or whatever they want to build, but this is in the shadow of the World Trade Center. It's one block from the World Trade Center. And people are really visibly shaken by it.

And I read an article about three or four days ago where the developer's bragging about what a great deal he made. This is the developer. And he's saying what an unbelievable deal, et cetera, et cetera. And that it's worth $18 million or $20 million and he paid $4.8 million.

So I said, you know, this sounds more like a real estate transaction, and with all this trouble, maybe what I'll do is call up, offer him a nice profit, buy it -- I don't even want it, I don't even like the location. It's not a great location, as far as I'm concerned.

So I called him and he started bragging to me about what a great deal he made. I said, well, why don't you sell it, I'll give you your money back. I'll give you -- as a smalltime developer, I'll give you your money back, I'll give you a 25 percent increase, I'll pay your costs, I'll pay everything, and we'll end this whole fiasco.

And he said, no, no, no, I wouldn't do that. This is worth $18 or $20 million. I said, well, are the people that sold it stupid? Because I know the people that sold it and they're not stupid. I said you mean the real estate market in less than a year is four or five times what you paid?

Well, they didn't know what they were doing. That's really -- that's great. So the bottom line is, I view it more as a real estate transaction for this guy than a mosque, frankly. And --

KING: So where does it stand right now?

TRUMP: Well, it stands that he thinks --

KING: They're going ahead with it, huh?

TRUMP: He at least tells me that he thinks it's worth much more than he paid for it. I don't believe it is worth much more than he paid for it. I offered him a 25 percent profit and -- in order to end this. Not in order to buy this piece of real estate, which I need like a hole in the head. I offered him a 25 percent profit.

KING: All right.

TRUMP: I guess he turned it down, but something should be done, because I'll tell you what, it's only going to get worse.

KING: The attorney for Hisham Elzanaty, who's part of the investment group, he called your offer a cheap attempt to get publicity and get into the limelight.

TRUMP: I don't need to get into the limelight, Larry. I have one of the top shows on television. I'm on Thursday nights and I don't need to be in the limelight with this.

If anything, they're looking to be in the limelight because they're proposing something that really has caused problems in downtown Manhattan, all over New York, and all over the country. And probably beyond. And it's getting worse and worse.

And, honestly, if they did something, if they made a move, if they moved it a little bit further away, they would do such good. So I don't know who this attorney is. I did speak to the developer and he's a small timer. Believe me, he's a small timer, and what he's doing is not right.

KING: All right, the Imam Rauf who appeared on this program that start all this said he never would have proposed this site if he'd realized the controversy it would create. Now he fears moving it. Is he between a rock and a hard place?

TRUMP: No, I think he'd do tremendous goodwill. He'd show tremendous goodwill if he did it. And there's ill will if he doesn't move. And this isn't going to go away, Larry. I see the people down there, hundreds and hundreds of people, they're not going anywhere.

These are people that lost their husbands, their wives, their sons, their daughters in the World Trade Center.

KING: All right. We'll be right back with more of Donald Trump and then in a little while, we'll have Dr. Phil join the conversation too about the new season of "The Apprentice." Don't go away.


KING: Before we talk about the new season of "The Apprentice," a couple of other things on this controversy.

What are your thoughts about that pastor in Florida who was going to burn the Koran?

TRUMP: Well, I think he's probably insane and I think he's a disgrace. And I can't believe that this guy with a congregation of like 35 or 38 people can be allowed to become such a big force.

And you know, frankly, the press should be ashamed of themselves. They created this man overnight. The press loves it. They talk, but they love it. They created this monster. And you know, he's a disgrace. He shouldn't be allowed.

KING: You think there's a danger, Donald, in all of this, that we're becoming a little bit Islamophobic in this country?

TRUMP: Well, I think that's probably so, and I think it's very sad and I think it's a shame. And you know, I know so many people, Muslim people that are such fabulous people, but there is no question about it. You talk about exactly what you just said, it's happening.

KING: All right. There's a man, who you know very well, who is bucking public opinion on this. And he's the mayor of your city.

TRUMP: Right.

KING: What do you make of how Bloomberg is doing?

TRUMP: Well, first of all, he's a great mayor and he's a great friend of mine and he feels that -- you know, he feels very strongly about freedom of religion, and I understand that. I just think at this particular case, if they moved a little bit further away, it would be a great gesture, and I think it would go a long way towards solving some of the problems.

And some of -- you know, the impure thoughts that are out there, Larry, and that's all there is to it. I'm a big fan of Michael, a great friend of mine, a great mayor, but I disagree. I think that -- I think that they should move to a different location.

KING: How do you think the president's handled it?

TRUMP: Well, I think he should have not mentioned anything, because frankly he put himself right into a hot seat, and it's probably a no-win for the president. But he put himself into a pretty precarious position.

KING: OK. Let's go to the new season of "The Apprentice," which will debut this Thursday night. I know you were talking with -- let's bring Dr. Phil back into this. You were talking with Dr. Phil during our conversation before you came on the air. Will you briefly explain how the new season is different?

TRUMP: Well, first of all, I'm a big fan of Phil. He's a friend of mine. He's a great guy. He's got a great show. And really, even though it's on sort of at odd times for a person like me that works long hours, when I'm around, I like to watch that show. You learn.

I will say that the reason "Celebrity Apprentice" is doing phenomenally in the ratings. And when we put "The Apprentice" on, we were the number one show on television many weeks. But we decided, because of what happened with the economy, that we'd bring regular "Apprentice" back and "Celebrity's" coming back in the spring, but we'd bring regular "Apprentice" back with 16 people. And they are really down and out people. They've lost their jobs. They've lost their money. Many of them have lost their families, their wives, their husbands. And it's just representative of what's going on with the economy. KING: How did you find them?

TRUMP: Well, we -- literally, tens of thousands of people applied to be on. And so many people -- the hardest job I have -- I was saying it tonight to somebody -- is taking literally tens of thousands of people that apply from all over the country and breaking that down into 16 people. But we did. We have 16 unbelievable people. We have a beautiful woman, graduated from Stanford law school. She's selling cupcakes.

We have another man, he has five children and a wife who's leaving him, and he's got no job. And two years ago, he had a great job. You know, when the regular "Apprentice" came on, it was go-go time. Everybody was doing great. The world was doing great. The Omarosa's of the world could act any way they wanted and get away with it.

Today, times are very different. And that's why we wanted -- we had so many requests to bring back a regular "Apprentice," and that's what we did. And NBC likes it so much, they put it on their prime prime night, which is Thursday night.

KING: Dr. Phil, what do you make of this?

MCGRAW: Well, I'm -- Donald is a really good friend of mine, and I don't say this because we're friends. But I think what he's doing here is genius. And Donald, I think not only because I think it will make for compelling television, but these people are not out of a job, Larry, because of something they've done wrong.

TRUMP: That's right.

MCGRAW: This is a system -- has put people that want to work -- they want to get out there and do something, but it has closed so many options to them. And when you get in that situation, you kind of go into a little bit of shock. And when you're in shock, you have some inertia.

What we're going to have here are 16 people that are so relatable -- these are going to be some of the most relatable people on television. And people are going to see them working hard and fighting back, learning different skills, using their abilities, their commitments in new and inventive ways. And I think it's going to energize so many people in America. I think psychologically, this is some of the medicine that we need right now.

KING: Donald, though, how are you going to deal with firing some of them?

TRUMP: Well, it's very tough, because they're so low. I mean, they really have gone through a point this their lives that they never thought it could have happened.

KING: So what are you going to do?

TRUMP: It's sometimes very tough. But at the very beginning, I sat down with them and I said, look, life is tough, and we can't change our stance. If somebody's going to be fired, they're going to be fired and it won't be pleasant. It's a very tough situation.

MCGRAW: But Donald, think about this, they -- Larry, they have already won. Think about it. Out of 10,000 people, they made the cut. They did the interviews. They prepared the video submissions. All the things that they have done to draw attention to themselves, they've already been mobilized. And they've made it on to national television.

These are people that you would never see on television. And they're not on in some quirky, how weird can I be reality situation. They're on for good things, good work.

TRUMP: The most amazing thing is that they've suffered during the show. It's really tough. They're getting three, four hours sleep, and they're working so hard. People have no idea how hard these people work. And suffering -- yet two of them told me, it's so great to be doing something; it's so great to be working again. And I couldn't believe it. But they really meant it.

MCGRAW: That's what I mean, Donald and Larry, that somebody's going to be fired, of course. There's somebody fired every week, because it is a competition. But to have gotten to the point that they have, that's a huge achievement, that they can be proud -- they can look at their children and say, look what daddy did. Look what mommy did. You know, I fought my way through this huge crowd, I got on the national television, I got to meet Mr. Trump. I got to use my skills and abilities.

And I'll guarantee you people that see these folks on television, when they go in to apply for a job, that employer's going to know something about them that they don't know about the next guy.

TRUMP: The hardest thing to believe, Phil, is the spirit that some of them have. Not all -- I mean, some have been beaten down by life. It's amazing to see it. They've just been beaten. And these are people with great credentials, but they've been beaten by life. Others have this incredible spirit. And it's really, really great to see.

KING: It airs Thursday night. We'll be back with the Donald and Dr. Phil right after this.


KING: We're back with Donald Trump and also with us, of course, Dr. Phil. Dr. Phil will be back in our remaining two segments. The Donald remains through this one. Also is a thought I was mentioning to Dr. Phil, Donald; some of these people, when they're fired, are going to get job offers, right?

TRUMP: Well, we've have many people from "the Apprentice" that have just done well. Excuse me, how about Piers? I mean, Piers is a great guy and he's a great fan of yours, Larry. But he's taking your place because, sadly, you've decided to hang it up, at least temporarily, right?

KING: Right.

TRUMP: Piers, I chose him as the Apprentice. And he went on to go to "America's Got Talent," and also to do your show. And Joan is doing fantastically. And Brett Michaels -- you know, Trace Adkins is the number one country singer. When he went on "the Apprentice," no one ever heard of him.

KING: You think these people will get jobs out of this?

TRUMP: And the regular people do phenomenally well. One of the things we're doing with -- as people get fired -- we've never done this before, this is new -- we're introducing them to big CEOs, like Terry Lundgren of Macy's, who's a great guy and a great executive, and Russell Simmons and the folks at PBH, you know, the great shirt company and dye company. And many of these people, Kodak -- we have such great sponsors. And many of these people are going to be interviewed by these great companies.

KING: what do you think of that, Phil?

MCGRAW: That's what I was saying. Think about it. If you're an employer and you've got a guy sitting out in your lobby and you say, OK, here's what we know about this guy: he came through an army of tens of thousands of people and got into the final 16, distinguished himself enough to do that. That's a resume item that you don't have on 99.999 percent of the people you have out there. It says a lot that, you know, somebody that was really digging and looking for a certain type of industry, this person made it through.

I think it's a great opportunity for them. And I think being fired will be tough. But I think it, ultimately, in the long run, will be a huge plus for them.

TRUMP: Well, Phil is so right. And especially that first evening, Phil, when you fire the first person. But, you know, day got through over 10,000 people. Actually, it's far more than that. And, you know, when you think of it, they really are all winners. And I try to tell them that. But still, when you get fired, you get fired, Phil. It's never pleasant.

KING: A couple other things, Donald. Where's the economy going, do you think?

TRUMP: Well, it's not going up very rapidly. If they raise taxes, that's going to be a very bad thing for the economy. And you really -- you know, you really have some problems. And I always get back to the same subject. I mean, if you look at China, they're eating our lunch. What they're doing to this country is disgraceful, that we're not doing a job of negotiating. If you want to go in and do a deal with China, you can't. Yet they come here and they make everything we have.

And it's ridiculous that we're not taxing the hell out of them.

KING: If you're raising taxes, you're only raising it on people making 250,000 or more, which is less than two percent of America.

TRUMP: Well, we'll see what happens, Larry. I mean, it's going to be very interesting. But a lot of the other people create the jobs. And they're going to go elsewhere and create jobs.

The other thing you have to look at is OPEC. Every time -- I don't know if you notice this, Phil, but every time the market goes up a little bit, oil prices goes up. So it sucks the blood out of you. The market goes up, oil goes up. The market goes up, oil goes up. Something should be done about OPEC. They sit around the table; they set artificially high prices; and they suck the blood out of our country.

KING: So you're not optimistic?

TRUMP: Well, I'm not optimistic if this country is going to allow China, OPEC, some other countries, to a lesser extent, get away with what they're doing, because they're really, really hurting this country. And we don't have our best negotiators. We're using diplomats to negotiate with geniuses.

I know the great business people. If I pick business people, I'll put ourselves against China. I'll put ourselves against OPEC. I'll put ourselves against anyone you want any day of the week. But we're using guys that are diplomats. We're using politicians that have no business doing it whatsoever; and it's a shame.

By the way, I have friends in China. I have friends on OPEC. They laugh at the stupidity of our country with what they can get away with. They laugh. They tell me behind other people's backs, Donald, we don't believe we're getting away with it. Your leaders are stupid.

KING: Donald, the next time you come on, will you try to have some opinions, be a little forthright, stop this wishy-washy.

TRUMP: Maybe Dr. Phil can straighten me out.

MCGRAW: Quit mealy mouthy around. Take a position.

TRUMP: Phil will straighten me out.

KING: Thanks, Donald.

TRUMP: Have a good time. So long, Phil.

MGRAW: So long, Donald. See you soon.

KING: We'll be back with Dr. Phil and his thoughts on lots of things, next.



KING: One reminder, Bill Maher is with us tomorrow night. Tomorrow morning, he gets his star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame. I'm going to sort of introduce Bill there. And Wednesday night -- here's a first -- Judge Stephen Breyer, justice of the United States Supreme Court, will be our special guest right here.

We're back with Dr. Phil. What do you make of -- we mentioned reality shows. What do you make of this whole reality show phenomenon?

MGRAW: You know, I think we've gotten into a generation that is so hungry, has such a need for attention, and, you know, with the advent of Youtube and some of these other sites, I mean, we've got people that think they need an audience when they're brushing their teeth, for God's sake. I mean, come on.

I think a lot of it is fun. I see some things on there -- and I contribute, to it because I look. I see some things on there that are really creative and fun, and I get a -- I love watching animals on Youtube, just people's pets and stuff doing crazy stuff. But I do think we've taught our kids, with all this the technology, that they got to be the center of attention. So they start pushing the envelope and doing more and more reckless things.

I worry about that. I think we are just so focused on people paying attention to us that it's going to -- where's it stop, I guess, is the point?

KING: What did you make of the whole Dr. Laura thing?

MGRAW: Well, you know, I don't know Dr. Laura. It's interesting that we're kind of both in the same space in terms of giving advice. But my sense is that whether you like or don't like her style, and the way she goes about things, I've always thought that, for the most part, she seemed to have her heart in the right place, really trying to help people. And I think has helped a lot of people.

I think that was poor judgment, to do what she was saying. I think she could have delivered the same message without those particular demonstrations. I think she could have philosophically talked about it. And I think it was a -- I think she said she probably made a bad judgment. But I don't think that that means that she's a bad person.

KING: Do you understand why race is such a tender subject? All you're dealing with is skin pigment.

MGRAW: Well, we're doing a show Wednesday of this week, day after tomorrow, that is entitled, -- or maybe it's Thursday, but it's this week -- "Are We Too Sensitive?" And we devoted the whole show to -- it's on Thursday. We devoted the whole show to that very issue. Have we gotten to the point of being so focused on being politically correct that we've lost all common sense?

We talk about it. We have some of "the Real Housewives of New Jersey" on, because there's been all this controversy about how we're characterizing Italian Americans. We talk about -- I have an African- American producer on the show that was stopped by the police at Burbank Airport, and they wanted to go through all of her luggage. She thinks it's because she's African-American. When she told them she worked for the "Dr. Phil" show, they said, oh, well, never mind, just go on. I don't know if it's because they like me or they thought, I don't want to see this on the show. Well, too late, because she is on the show talking about it.

But there is a point where I think we are too sensitive. That doesn't mean that the pendulum needs to swing all the other way, where we just don't take a moment to think about the impact of the things we say and the things we do. I mean, people can make bald jokes and it doesn't bother me. But that's not the same thing as talking about race. Race -- there is a history here. Racism is still alive in America.

KING: Saddest part of American history.

MGRAW: And it's not American history just, it is still a big part of our society today. Have we made advances? I think we have. But don't ever kid that racism is over and done with.

KING: What do you make of profiling?

MGRAW: Well, I think that if you're in law enforcement, you've got the toughest job in America, because the statistics are -- you look at what the terrorist background has been and it's a pretty one- dimensional background in many respects. And I think so people get sensitized to that and are aware of it. They're going to look closer at someone of that background than they are someone from Sweden or someone that's blond hair and blue-eyed. Is it right and is it fair?

KING: Not fair.

MGRAW: Of course it's not. I think it's terrible. I have some wonderful friends from the Mideast that are as red, white and blue as anybody you know, that have been harassed, and I think it's a terrible, terrible thing. What I don't have is the answer. I don't know how we're going to get through this.

KING: Do they feel offended?

MGRAW: They do feel offended. There's no question about it. They feel like, look, you're doing this because I'm dark complected (ph) with black hair, and my name isn't something that is common to the neighborhoods? They do feel offended by that. I think they should. I think it's terribly unfair. But the truth is we have some history there that's scary.

KING: I'm going to ask Dr. Phil when we come back something I've never talked to hi about, 9/11 in the sense of will we ever recover? Don't go away.



MGRAW: Behind these doors are six different women that are here for six different reasons. They've never met each other until just a few minutes ago. Usually when people come on the show, I know a lot about them before they get here. But not this time. This time, I'm going to learn about them right along with you. One thing I know for sure is that you're going to find yourself in these six stories.


KING: Dr. Phil, some fascinating programming coming ahead. Will we ever recover from 9/11?

MGRAW: Larry, I think that there is a national consciousness and then you have your individual consciousness. And I think because that violence was on American shores, it changes who you are. I mean, you go through some things and you shake them off. You heal across time, of course. But I think when certain things happen it's not a phase. It's not like a psychological phase or infection. It changes who you are at the core.

And 9/11 Changed who I was. I mean, it's kind of like the death of innocence. You just never think that people would ever come on to American soil and attack us. And that was probably naive on my part, but it's changed who I am. I have never gotten over seeing one of those images. And every time you look at it -- we just had the anniversary. Looking at those pictures, it took me back there in a second.

And I'm not sure that's a bad thing. I'm not sure I had a bad thing to remember that. We needed that ceremony that we had on the 9th. I needed -- I sat and watched that that morning and I needed to see that. It was -- it helped me focus some, because you get busy and you forget about the lives that were lost. It was a good reminder for me.

KING: And we didn't have live television at Pearl Harbor.

MGRAW: Right. That was a good reminder for me. I don't want to forget that. I don't want to forget those lives that were lost. I don't want to forget the men and women who got sick down there working. We kind of have ADD in America. Sometimes I need someone to remind me what took place so I don't forget it.

KING: And they haven't been as well-compensated add you would have thought.

MGRAW: No, they apparently have not. I have had some of the people on the show that have contracted diseases that they attribute to that, and it's been a tough road for them.

KING: We only have about a minute and a half left. Have you ever had a problem come up that stumped you?

MGRAW: Larry, I have a 20-person advisory board of the top minds in psychology and medicine from all around the country. So I have a great resource that I go to. So have I had things that have stumped me? You bet. For example, when you have a 18 or 19-year-old kid that makes hugely stupid decisions, and as a parent you can't tell them what to do anymore. You only influence them. You can't dictate to them anymore. What do you do about that? How do you deal with those situations?

And I have people from Stanford University, UCLA, Harvard, all the great learning centers in America that are on the advisory board. So I'm able to send them the stories that we're going to do and get them all to weigh in and give me their wisdom. It makes me look smart, of course. But I have such great people surrounding me that I'm very proud to have.

KING: You ever get tired of doing it?

MGRAW: Not at all. I mean, it's like cat nip for me. I just am so passionate about what I do. What a privilege it is to get to do this, to get to deal with something that I think matters, and to get to advance the dialogue of mental health and mental illness, for that matter, in America.

KING: As always, thanks. We'll be having you back.

MGRAW: I look forward to it.

KING: Dr. Phil, one of our favorite people. Don't forget, Bill Maher is here tomorrow night. He gets his star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame tomorrow. And on Wednesday night, Judge Steven Breyer, justice of the United States Supreme Court.

Right now, it's Anderson Cooper time, "AC 360" in New York. Here's Anderson.