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Tea Party Tide Rising?; Interview With New York Gubernatorial Candidate Carl Paladino; Civil Rights Spy; Republican Infighting
Aired September 15, 2010 - 14:59 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
RICK SANCHEZ, HOST: Hey, thanks so much, T.J. All right. Here we go.
Politics, politics, politics. And topping right now, believe it or not, it's Democrats today who are celebrating. How can that be? Well, you're about to understand this, because we're going to take you through it.
What's going on is, there's a lot of infighting today between the GOP and the Tea Party. Now, I'm about to talk to one of those Tea Party victors from last night.
First, though, let me take you through what happened, all right? Delaware, where Republican Mike Castle was taken out by Tea Party favorite Chris O'Donnell. Castle says there is zero chance that he will in any way endorse O'Donnell in the fall, and he ain't the only one saying something like this.
Remember what happened as well in Florida. All right, last night, Karl Rove, among others, lambastes O'Donnell, which has created a huge fight within the party itself amongst Republicans. Republicans are left with an energized group of voters, voters who may have hurt themselves by elevating and nominating Tea Party candidates.
And it gets even more tricky. But the trick now is to try and harness the Tea Party energy into results for the fall. That's what Republicans are trying to do, and that's what Democrats are obviously going to try and keep them from doing. That's the way the game is played.
One of those who will try to do just that is joining me now. His name is Carl Paladino. And he defeated Rick Lazio for the Republican New York gubernatorial primary. He will now face Democrat Andrew Cuomo, who is the son of former Governor Mario Cuomo, in the fall.
Mr. Paladino, congratulations, sir. You have done well last night.
CARL PALADINO (R), NEW YORK GUBERNATORIAL CANDIDATE: Well, thank you very much.
SANCHEZ: Hey, let me ask you about a couple of things that I'm reading, because I think it's important now for us to get to know who Carl Paladino is. Now you're front and center on the national stage. You sent out a memo last week where you said about the mosque in New York City, you said the mosque is meant to be a monument to those who attacked America. Do you stand by that?
PALADINO: Yes, I do.
SANCHEZ: But --
PALADINO: The simple
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: Go ahead. I'm sorry, sir.
PALADINO: The simple use of the word Cordoba says it all for me. When they used the word Cordoba, they were referring to the mosque, the grand mosque, which was converted from a Catholic cathedral. And it's a symbol --
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: But Cordoba is a city in Spain where many people who are Islamic live with people who are Catholic and others from throughout Europe.
I mean, that's -- in fact, let me do this. Let me have Imam Rauf explain his position, and then you respond to what you believe he's saying despite what he's saying. Let's do this that way. Here is Imam Rauf. He was on CNN, the first interview he did after he came back.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
IMAM FEISAL ABDUL RAUF, FOUNDER & CHAIRMAN, CORDOBA INITIATIVE: Let there be no mistake, ladies and gentlemen, Islam categorically rejects the killing of innocent people. Terrorists violate the sanctity of human life and corrupt the meaning of our faith. In no way do they represent our religion, and we must not let them define us.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: So he's saying terrorists don't represent him, they don't represent the mosque. He was chosen by George W. Bush to go around the world and try and get moderate Muslims to understand and appreciate our culture.
And you're here sending this to people all over New York, saying, the mosque is meant to be a monument to those who attacked America, which is the exact opposite of what this man just said. Then you go on in here and you say, "This proposed mosque is an insult to those murdered by a hateful ideology" -- quote -- you say, "an ideology the developers of this mosque refused to denounce or distance themselves from."
With all due respect, you're saying just the opposite of what Imam Rauf is saying. So, I guess you're saying he's just a big liar?
PALADINO: No. I guess it comes down to credibility, doesn't it, mine vs. his.
SANCHEZ: What is yours?
PALADINO: Yes, I think that you have a developer there behind the imam who has illustrated in many different ways that he does support the radical Islamic movement.
You have a guy there that was a dishwasher and all of a sudden he's a multimillionaire. There's something wrong in that picture.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: Well, what gives you the right to be a multimillionaire -- and, by the way, he's not a multimillionaire, but a guy who is trying to build a mosque --
(CROSSTALK)
PALADINO: Well, we would like to know -- we would like to -- I think the American people can form their own judgment about the intent of this.
What is -- what is so, so wrong with them relocating that mosque someplace else? What is so wrong with that?
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: Well, no, and that's a perfectly fine argument, sir. And that's an argument that's been raised by people on both of this. But you're going beyond that. You're --
(CROSSTALK)
PALADINO: Right. I'm going well beyond it in the sense that I'm talking about an imam who made prior statements about bringing Sharia law to America and having the Muslim community practice under the American Constitution their Sharia law.
That's not kosher for us. It's not something that we can buy into.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: But the question is, though --
(CROSSTALK)
PALADINO: No. You want to talk about his credibility. You're talking about his credibility. All right?
SANCHEZ: No, sir. My job is to be correct. My job is to try and get the information from both sides. PALADINO: And I'm being very correct, because you're making an interpretation, and I'm making an interpretation. We're entitled under American --
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: Well, but this is not about interpretations. This is about facts. And there's a big difference between interpretations and facts.
Let me lead you to another point here. "You say those who propose this mosque belong to a sect of Islam" -- you wrote this to the people of New York whose votes you're seeking. And it almost sounds like a scare tactic. "Those who propose this mosque belong to a sect of Islam which requires all who don't subscribe to this religion be killed."
Where in the hell did you get that?
PALADINO: From his writings.
SANCHEZ: From Rauf's writings?
PALADINO: His writings support Sharia law.
SANCHEZ: He says anybody who doesn't believe in what he believes, he wants killed?
(CROSSTALK)
PALADINO: You know, it's a little bit difficult to talk to you when you want to talk over somebody.
SANCHEZ: I apologize for that. Let me ask you the question again.
(CROSSTALK)
PALADINO: You want your opportunity to talk; you want to give me an opportunity to talk?
SANCHEZ: Where do you get the information that says that he wants everyone killed who doesn't believe the way he believes?
PALADINO: I have read reports of his prior writings which talk about introduction of Sharia law. That's what Sharia law says, sir.
SANCHEZ: Why would George W. Bush choose this man to go around the world representing to moderate Islamic believers what the United States believes in, if he is --
(CROSSTALK)
PALADINO: Oh, now we're going to lay this on Bush?
SANCHEZ: I'm sorry? PALADINO: Now we're going to lay this on Bush's credibility?
SANCHEZ: Oh, no, no.
(CROSSTALK)
PALADINO: Everybody is human. But President Bush is human. We all make mistakes.
SANCHEZ: So you believe the president of the United States made a mistake in this case?
PALADINO: Of course he did.
SANCHEZ: It's interesting. Well, it just seems interesting, because you use this term, as I read your letter, and with all due respect. You accuse your opponent, Democrat candidate for governor Andrew Cuomo, of taking the politically correct view in the case of the Islamic center being built in New York City.
That's an interesting choice of words, politically correct, because is it really politically correct, is that what you choose, which will ingratiate with a majority of people? A majority of people in the United States -- I mean, the easiest thing in the world right now is to beat up Muslims, which is what you're doing. That is politically correct, is it not?
PALADINO: Are you teaching me now?
SANCHEZ: No. I'm asking why you choose --
(CROSSTALK)
PALADINO: Are you teaching me what political correctness is?
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: Why do you accuse your opponent, who is taking a minority view in this case, which most people would actually consider brazen to take a view like this -- it's not easy in the United States these days to defend people who are either Muslim or, for example, Hispanic.
But you're saying he's taking the politically correct view. Couldn't it be argued that you're taking the politically correct view?
PALADINO: No, I'm not politically correct. I never wanted to be, and I never will be.
SANCHEZ: To what do you attribute --
PALADINO: Mr. Cuomo --
SANCHEZ: I'm sorry. Go ahead.
PALADINO: Mr. Cuomo has chosen to call it freedom of religion. I call it -- I call it an ideological question. It has nothing to do with freedom of religion. This is an affront to the American people. And I stand behind my remark. My remark was that, on January 1, 2011, no matter what state --
SANCHEZ: Mm-hmm.
PALADINO: -- this project is in, I will stop it, and I will use all legal means to stop it.
SANCHEZ: You say that you will use -- here, let me read from your letter once again. You're right. This is the point that you're making. And you're correct, you have been very consistent on this.
"The governor," you write, "has a legal power to use the state's right of eminent domain to seize this site and make it a memorial of which we can be proud. That is exactly what I will do if I am elected governor."
So, as governor, you will go in there and take this property away from this people and turn it into a memorial, because they want to use it as an Islamic cultural center?
PALADINO: No, let me -- let me -- let me correct on that, OK?
That was -- that was a partial misstatement on my part. We will go in there and we will put a restrictive covenant on the property and all of the property in the Ground Zero site.
Ground Zero, for me, is the extended site over which the dust cloud containing human remains traveled. That Ground Zero site will be protected in the memory of -- of -- of those who fell at -- at the World Trade Center, as well as the memory of the thousands and thousands of soldiers of American and allied soldiers that fell in the ensuing wars, and the 150,000 troops we still have over there defending our right to speak like this today.
SANCHEZ: Well, let --
PALADINO: And I will defend -- I will defend the principle of those principles. And I will defend them as an elected leader of the American people, of -- of certain American people, in this case --
(CROSSTALK)
PALADINO: -- the people of the state of New York.
SANCHEZ: OK. But you just said the property for which the dust clouds --
PALADINO: Oh, I'm sorry. I missed the point.
Yes, let me explain -- let me explain That. Eminent domain is a very broad term. You can actually take property or you can just put a restriction on property. In this case, it would be a restriction on the use of a property that a zoning board would consider the issue when proposed use is introduced for any property within the district.
SANCHEZ: So --
PALADINO: And -- and if it -- if -- if that zoning board determines that it is an affront in any way to the American people or those memories, then -- then it would be rejected.
SANCHEZ: So, you believe that a government --
PALADINO: The use would be rejected.
SANCHEZ: -- a government has a right to make a decision, a property-rights decision, based on its own sensibilities, how it's affected? How -- how would that stop in the future someone from --
PALADINO: We do it every day in zoning -- we do it every day in zoning law.
SANCHEZ: But what -- how -- but, in this case, you're --
(CROSSTALK)
PALADINO: Zoning laws --
SANCHEZ: But this case, it's a First Amendment argument that you're -- that you're deciding.
PALADINO: No, we're not.
SANCHEZ: Aside from sensibilities, if the Constitution says --
PALADINO: No.
SANCHEZ: -- we have a right to worship as we please where we please, how can you go in and say, I don't want you worshipping --
PALADINO: We're doing --
SANCHEZ: -- that way there because it affects my sensibilities?
PALADINO: I have -- I have clearly said to you that it is my opinion this is not a question of freedom of religion.
SANCHEZ: I'm -- I'm sorry. My producer was talking as you were answering that question.
PALADINO: I'm sorry.
SANCHEZ: So, let me hear that last answer again.
PALADINO: I have clearly -- I have clearly stated that it is my opinion that this is not a question of freedom of religion. It's a question of ideology.
And -- and -- and the people --
SANCHEZ: The --
PALADINO: -- that are proposing this are -- are -- are -- the people that are proposing this are trying to hide behind a -- a sacred right of the American people, the -- the right to freely enjoy their religions.
SANCHEZ: Well, that's an interesting argument.
PALADINO: And -- and they're trying to --
SANCHEZ: But -- but that being --
PALADINO: They're trying to hide behind that, and I reject that.
SANCHEZ: They may very well be, sir. And I understand your perspective.
But what you can't get away from -- and I guess what I would like to ask you, because we have got to get a break in, and we will continue, but maybe it gives us a chance to think about this a little bit -- how do you get away from the fact that there is a constitutional argument here that seems to say that you can't deny someone --
(CROSSTALK)
PALADINO: There is no constitutional argument, because it's not freedom of religion.
SANCHEZ: It's not? OK.
PALADINO: If it was freedom of religion, they would put their mosque someplace else --
SANCHEZ: OK. Let's -- let's continue that part --
PALADINO: -- and enjoy their religious experience.
SANCHEZ: Let's continue that part of the argument.
But we're just going to sneak a break in here real quick to pay our bills. We're talking to the man who won the governor's primary yesterday in New York City. Carl Paladino is kind enough to join us today to take us through who he is and some of his arguments.
And, as he does, you will hear it right here on RICK'S LIST.
Stay with us. We will be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: All right.
We're back with Carl Paladino, who was the victor last night in the Republican gubernatorial race. He's kind enough to join us.
And we are -- we have congratulated him for -- for this win, which takes him on to the general now in November.
You -- you said something interesting a while ago that caught my attention, because I was there during 9/11. I witnessed the second tower falling down. And I remember what you were explaining a little while -- when you said the dust cloud.
You said the dust -- you said you want to respect that whole area anywhere in the dust cloud that carried the human remains of the victims who died there that day. So, I -- I -- I believe what I hear you saying is, then, that you wouldn't want any mosque or Islamic center built anywhere in that area where the dust cloud was?
Because that was a vast -- if you recall, I mean, it stretched all the way to Weehawken, to parts of Hoboken, to, you know, all -- block -- miles from where this thing happened, right?
PALADINO: No, I don't think it went out that far. It went out about a quarter-of-a-mile, I think.
SANCHEZ: You would -- OK. So, is that what you're saying?
PALADINO: Yes.
SANCHEZ: Within a quarter-mile radius of Ground Zero, you do not want any --
PALADINO: Well, I -- I don't know the -- I don't know the exact distance. I don't mean to make out that I know the exact distance.
But wherever it went, wherever that dust is caught in the crevices of buildings or in the crevices of sidewalks, that's human remains, and it should be treated that way.
SANCHEZ: What -- under what legal ground would you be able to postulate that position?
PALADINO: As I said, I don't treat it as a First Amendment right under freedom of religion. I treat as a First Amendment right the right of American people to speak out on this issue --
SANCHEZ: Oh, no, I get that. I -- I --
PALADINO: -- and to say what's on their minds.
SANCHEZ: No, sir --
(CROSSTALK)
PALADINO: And I -- I -- I also --
SANCHEZ: We -- we -- we understand that.
PALADINO: I understand that -- I -- Rick, I understand. You have some -- some very liberal, progressive views on this thing, OK? You believe in political -- the political correctness of those views.
I don't. All right? I'm different. And I have a right to speak as I feel.
SANCHEZ: Well, no, no, no. I -- my -- my job -- my job is to question you on the words that you have on this document that you sent to the people.
PALADINO: No, you're doing more than that. You're --
SANCHEZ: I'm asking a question. Here's what you --
PALADINO: You're advocating.
SANCHEZ: Here's what you say.
I am not advocating anything.
Here's what you say. "As governor of the state of New York, I will have the legal power to use the state's right of eminent domain to seize this site and make it a memorial of which we can all be proud. That is exactly what I will do if I am elected governor."
So, as a journalist, then I ask you, if you're so sure you can do this, and this is what you have promised to the people who voted for you last night, how is it that you will be able to do this? Under what legal grounds will you be able to take that property away from those people?
PALADINO: Well, we will -- we will declare it, under the law, to be a property -- a right for -- which is within the definition of public use, and as long as it is within the definition of public use, which -- which comes -- which includes the zoning restrictions, then we would have a right to use eminent domain to place such a restriction over all the properties in that area.
Obviously, it could not -- it could not cover the present use of properties. If the properties are presently legally used for a different purpose, they would be nonconforming uses.
But any future use that might be proposed, where there's a change of use or a new use to a new building, say, then -- then, in that case, they would have to go before a zoning board. And the zoning board would have to consider whether or not it is -- it is an affront to that memory of those people.
SANCHEZ: Have you thought through, though, the possibilities of what this could lead to in the future? I mean, today, we're arguing about Muslims, and it's a perfectly viable argument in that part of New York.
But, tomorrow, we could be arguing about Jews or Catholics or whatever the controversy of the day is. And --
PALADINO: And that's -- that's why you have to take every --
SANCHEZ: -- if you start setting precedent -- I'm sorry. Go ahead. I think you get the gist of my question.
PALADINO: That's why -- that's why you have to take every question on its facts. And that's what we learn in law school.
We learn to take the facts of a specific case, outline the facts, figure out what the issues are, come out with our feeling on it, and give our rationale.
SANCHEZ: Well --
PALADINO: And, when we give the rationale on this, it's -- it's not that difficult to comprehend.
(CROSSTALK)
PALADINO: This mosque is an affront, and we -- I will stand and I will always stand --
SANCHEZ: OK.
PALADINO: -- for the American people.
SANCHEZ: I under -- I understand that, sir.
PALADINO: And I'm not --
SANCHEZ: But, by the way, when you say you will stand for the American people, I think you're saying you will stand for a certain sector of the American people who you believe agree with you, just -- just for the record.
Let me ask you some questions about your positions that people would want to know about.
Same-sex marriage, where do you stand on that?
PALADINO: No.
SANCHEZ: Man -- how do you feel about unions between same-sex couples?
PALADINO: It's fine. I think the -- well, if the definition of unions is what we have right now --
SANCHEZ: Uh-huh.
PALADINO: -- I'm fine with that. I have no -- no anxiety over it.
SANCHEZ: Abortion.
PALADINO: But --
(CROSSTALK)
PALADINO: -- carry it further into -- no.
SANCHEZ: How do you feel -- what is your position on abortion?
PALADINO: No.
SANCHEZ: Should a woman have a right to have an abortion if she's -- if she's been raped?
PALADINO: No.
SANCHEZ: She should not? She should have to have the baby?
PALADINO: And the baby can be adopted, yes.
SANCHEZ: What if it's -- what if it's a case of incest?
PALADINO: The baby can be adopted, yes.
SANCHEZ: To what do you attribute, finally, your victory last night, which was, by the way, according to a lot of people who have been watching this, a huge surprise?
PALADINO: It's a clear, definitive message.
We put out a clear, definitive message of who we are and what we intend to do. I'm not -- I'm not a person looking for money. I have no political ambitions whatsoever. I don't seek power. I don't seek any kind of praise. I have no ego to fulfill.
I'm going to -- I'm going to Albany to take out a government, to take out a culture, to bring that culture down once and for all, and to -- and to restore a government of right size to -- to tend to the issues and the desires of the taxpayers who pay for that government.
And we're -- in -- in doing that, I have illustrated, I believe, an intestinal fortitude to take on the demons. I'm not afraid. I'm not -- I'm not intimidatable (ph). I'm certainly not politically correct.
SANCHEZ: Mm-hmm.
PALADINO: I'm an outsider. I have -- I have a life of my own right now I totally enjoy.
(CROSSTALK)
PALADINO: And I will enjoy this task of going there and -- and doing the right thing for the people of the state of New York.
SANCHEZ: Mr. Carl Paladino --
PALADINO: The people listened to my message. They accepted it.
(CROSSTALK)
PALADINO: Mr. Carl Paladino, my thanks to you for taking the time. It's -- it's been a good interview. I know you took exception to some of my questions when I challenged you. I was only trying to do the best I can to get people the perspective on where you stand.
PALADINO: Well, thank you, Rick.
SANCHEZ: My --
(CROSSTALK)
PALADINO: I appreciate the opportunity. And -- and I will come on any time you would like.
SANCHEZ: Thank you, sir.
PALADINO: Thank you.
SANCHEZ: Carl Paladino, the big winner last night in the New York gubernatorial race.
When we come back, have you heard the story about the guy who was actually spying on the reverend Martin Luther King, despite the fact that the Reverend Martin Luther King thought he was working for him as a photographer? It's a story that's got a lot of people thinking today. It's part of our history.
So, I'm going to be joined by Andrew Young, who was part of that civil rights movement, who was side by side with the Reverend Martin Luther King. He's going to be here to take some of my questions.
We will be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Hey, welcome back. I'm Rick Sanchez.
I want to tell you a story now of what most people would believe is betrayal. But let me take you through it, because it has to do with one of the most important figures in our history. This person was a highly regarded freelance photographer who documented key moments in the civil rights movement.
His name was Ernest C. Withers. And he was allowed to get closer to Reverend Martin Luther King Jr. than just about any other photographer ever. Mr. King trusted him because he says that, you know, they grew up together. He had known him all his life.
But now we find out, and I know, history being what it is, that Withers was an informant for the FBI. He was spying on Dr. King while he was his very good friend and his photographer.
A Memphis newspaper, "The Commercial Appeal," has divulged this information, made this revelation after digging through tons of documents that were suddenly released.
Now, I want to show you some different shots here. This is video of Withers during a 1999 interview with CNN's Gary Tuchman. He was there when King when he was killed by an assassin in Memphis and crossed police tape, when no other photographer was allowed to have kind of access. He was. All right, we're going to have reaction now from a civil rights legend, Andrew Young. And he's going to be joining us in just a moment.
You were there.
ANDREW YOUNG, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO THE UNITED NATIONS: Yes.
SANCHEZ: You obviously were very close to Dr. King. But you were also close to Mr. Withers, right?
YOUNG: Yes. We thought of him as a good friend, and still do.
SANCHEZ: This is what's interesting about this.
So, I want to take a moment real quick to show folks some of his work.
YOUNG: Yes.
SANCHEZ: Some of -- these -- these are iconic photographs.
YOUNG: Yes.
SANCHEZ: Let me take you through them.
Remember this picture? You see that? You remember this, right? This was taken by Withers in 1966.
YOUNG: Oh, yes.
SANCHEZ: Ironically, this is the Lorraine Motel in Memphis, Tennessee. That's the same motel where the doctor was -- Dr. Martin Luther King was murdered by an assassin's bullet just two years later.
King was there to participate in a black voter registration drive. We also got a hold of this picture right there, a photo that was -- that also made Withers famous. Remember this? More than 5,000 Memphis sanitation workers lined up for this picture carrying signs that read, "I Am a Man." This photo was taken just before the strike that King led.
King was killed just days after this strike on April 4, 1968.
Now, members of Withers' family are surprised by this report that their patriarch was a spy for the FBI. Daughter Rosalind Withers was quoted as saying: "This is the first time I have heard of this in my life. My father is not here to defend himself. That is a very, very strong, strong accusation."
Be that what it may, it's part of history. Rosalind, by the way, is now the trustee of her father's photo collection.
Let me bring you back in now.
It's hard for people at home not to see this and be upset. And they feel like, maybe this man betrayed the confidence of one of the most iconic figures in our history. How do you disagree with that?
YOUNG: Well, I -- I don't disagree with it, but you have to understand that our movement was designed to be totally transparent.
And we knew there were people -- I can remember being in a meeting in Selma when a Klan photographer came in and set up his photo -- his -- his thing, and everybody knew who he was. And Dr. King said: "No, don't put him out. We want them to get the story right."
SANCHEZ: Really?
YOUNG: Really.
SANCHEZ: You knew -- he knew he was photographed by a photographer for the -- for the KKK?
YOUNG: For the Klan, sure.
SANCHEZ: My goodness.
YOUNG: And -- and we did not -- we knew that everything we did was recorded. Our phones were tapped.
I just -- I put a -- fixed a fence outside my house just two months ago.
SANCHEZ: Mm-hmm.
YOUNG: And the guy from my church who was putting in the -- the telephone wire said, you have got five wires running into your house.
(LAUGHTER)
SANCHEZ: Really?
YOUNG: I said, I -- I don't know. I said, we don't have but four phones. We have two phones, a fax and an Internet. I don't know where the fifth one --
SANCHEZ: But what --
YOUNG: -- the fifth one was going to six houses down the street, which means that since I moved in there about 1966, there's been a bug in my house. But we could not --
SANCHEZ: Have you ever -- have you ever told anybody that before?
YOUNG: I just found it out.
SANCHEZ: That's amazing.
YOUNG: But I knew -- I knew that every phone call I made -- I knew that every hotel I stayed in, I knew that everything I said was being recorded.
SANCHEZ: You know, I experienced that when I went to Cuba as a reporter to interview Fidel Castro. But that's a communist totalitarian country, and Americans are sitting here saying, but you're now saying -- and this is -- this is our problem with what you're saying right now. This man had the confidence of you and Martin Luther King and all these leaders. It's not what he said. It's what he could have done.
YOUNG: Well, OK. But here's the thing. I remember another instance where a guy came to work for us. And I said, you know, this guy probably is being sent here by the CIA. So, this -- I mean, just a casual check of his background and I assumed that. Dr. King said, well, if he can help us get organized, so what?
SANCHEZ: There was that much going on that you just suspected and you knew that there were people who were doing this?
YOUNG: We knew it. We got calls for people telling us --
SANCHEZ: Well, let's talk --
YOUNG: -- believe it or not, we actually thought of the FBI as our friends.
SANCHEZ: Really?
YOUNG: We thought of Hoover as an enemy.
SANCHEZ: J. Edgar Hoover?
YOUNG: We felt that Hoover had a problem that we couldn't -- that was irrational that we couldn't deal with. But the average FBI agent was more reliable than the average Georgia patrolman or the GBI or the Mississippi State Patrol.
SANCHEZ: Well, let's get more -- let me -- let me make this --
YOUNG: Let me just say one thing about Withers.
SANCHEZ: OK. That's what I want to ask --
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: Yes, go ahead.
YOUNG: It's been my position that to pass on information, if it's true, is all right. And we would say, OK, sell your services but don't sell your soul. Don't lie on us. If you want to tell people the truth -- now, we also had instructions from --
SANCHEZ: But did you know that Withers was -- when did you find out?
YOUNG: Just when the story broke.
SANCHEZ: What was your reaction?
YOUNG: That he made a little extra money on the side.
SANCHEZ: Didn't bother you?
YOUNG: Didn't bother me.
SANCHEZ: How did you not feel betrayed when something does something like that, because it's a lie?
YOUNG: No. He was the one that was our contact with "Jet" and "Ebony." He was our voice to the world.
SANCHEZ: But if he was that much of a trusted friend, why wouldn't you expect him to say to you, by the way, guys, with a wink and a nod, Andy, you know what, I'm going to keep doing this but I'm working for the FBI? Why wouldn't you expect him to be straight with you and Dr. King?
YOUNG: Because it wasn't that important to us.
SANCHEZ: How could it not be important to you have, Andy?
YOUNG: I don't know why it needed to be. We knew we were trying to change America. We knew -- our instructions from our lawyers were for us to inform the FBI and the Justice Department of everything we did before we did it. We had no secrets. We wanted no secrets.
SANCHEZ: Well, how did you trust that he wouldn't take information and share it in such is a way that would have hurt your cause? Because you knew he was putting in the hands of J. Edgar Hoover who could have exaggerated or extrapolated --
YOUNG: Which he did -- which he did. And those are the people I'm angry with. I'm angry with the scholars that look at the J. Edgar Hoover files and think of them as fact.
SANCHEZ: So --
YOUNG: I don't worry about the informants on the street. The people who were doing their jobs, they were doing a job for us. The stories that he got around the world were important enough for us to give him access.
Now, I can't imagine him making up anything. I mean, he's a guy that I --
SANCHEZ: Well, I'll tell you specifically just one quick thing. You know, that sanitation strike that I showed a while ago, he turned in notes to the FBI on who attended those meetings, why they were there, what they were doing. What if there was somebody who wanted to protect the fact, they wanted to go to the meeting but didn't want to be discovered?
YOUNG: No, because we didn't like people like that.
SANCHEZ: I see.
YOUNG: We wanted people to be proud of what they were doing. We were standing up for the Constitution. We were trying to make America -- help America live out the true meaning of its creeds.
And I mean, when I was going -- after Dr. King died and I went down to the islands, there was a guy with us that we said, what's he doing with us? And I said he's probably an agent. And we said, let's make sure he gets invited everywhere we go. So he can write an accurate report.
SANCHEZ: I get it. You are a forgiving man.
YOUNG: No.
SANCHEZ: And a lot of people -- well, no, but your position is very forthright on this. I think it's -- it probably shocks some folks to hear you say you feel absolutely --
YOUNG: Well, we always say that you can report. You can -- you can be -- well, I say to people who are supporting my opponents in a political campaign: Take their money, but don't sell your vote. Sell your services, but don't sell your soul.
SANCHEZ: In the end, it's what's in your heart.
Andrew Young, a legend in and of himself speaking to us right here -- my thanks for coming in and talking to us.
By the way, before we break, I want to remind you that we're going to bring you President Obama's live statement from the Rose Garden. He's expected to speak at 4:30. When he gets started we're going to bring it to you. And as we bring you that, we'll bring you the rest of the day's news. There's a whole lot of it.
THE LIST scrolls on.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: All right, here we go. Welcome back, everyone.
Now to a story of a different sort, a tropical triple threat. That's a lot of T's, alliteration, Shakespeare device. This has to do with the Atlantic. And let us go now to learn more about Julia and Igor and whoever else is out there from --
CHAD MYERS, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Karl.
SANCHEZ: Who?
MYERS: Karl.
SANCHEZ: Karl! That's right. Karl with a K.
MYERS: Julia and the peps.
(LAUGHTER)
MYERS: Do you know the Pep Boys? Do you know who they are?
SANCHEZ: It's car -- it's an automotive store, isn't it?
MYERS: Manny, Moe and Jack.
SANCHEZ: Right.
MYERS: Yes. I got Igor, Julia and Karl. I got better than the Pep Boys.
Julia way out here. There's Africa, OK? We're not worried about -- we're not worried about this storm. It's going to head up into the north Atlantic, get into cooler water and die.
Igor, now, that's a different story. Yes, it's still making that turn. And if you notice -- I'll draw that straight line like I did yesterday -- it is not still moving to the west. It is turning to the northwest and that will allow it to get sucked up when there's a high pressure here, the high pressure spins like this and that will get sucked up and around. Only problem is, it's hard to find -- somewhere right there is Bermuda.
And then, Karl -- Karl now coming across the southern -- you call it Caribbean, right?
SANCHEZ: Yes. Caribbean. Yes.
MYERS: Right.
SANCHEZ: Because of the Carib Indians.
MYERS: Yes. You put an E on the end of it? The Caribbean here, from the Yucatan Peninsula here, just to north of Belize, and it came across, it will go into the Bay of Campeche and then to probably south of Tampico, Mexico there, not making a threat to the U.S. at all.
And in fact, none of these making any threat to the U.S. except when this thing gets up into the north or mid-Atlantic, there will be gigantic waves. Look at this -- look at this, the storm is going to be 110 miles per hour --
SANCHEZ: Wow.
MYERS: -- as it gets very close there to Bermuda. Maybe 105. That's what we had yesterday, 105.
SANCHEZ: It's like Pacific surf or the folks in the Atlantic --
MYERS: Exactly right. You can hardly see it, but there's Bermuda right there.
So, as this thing continues to spin, all of this surf will be crashing onshore. Remember, the problems we had with the -- what do you call, the undertow?
SANCHEZ: Right.
MYERS: You know, the rip currents, we're going to have it again even though the storm is way offshore for this weekend coming up. And probably all through all of next week, there will be big time waves and big time undertow or rip currents.
SANCHEZ: And I get to be a bit of smarty pants. Are you ready of this?
MYERS: Yes. Go ahead.
SANCHEZ: Here's something a lot of folks don't know. Ready? The last time there were two category four hurricanes in the Atlantic --
MYERS: Yes.
SANCHEZ: -- was September 16th, 1926. Now, the only reason I know that has nothing to do with the fact that I'm smart. It has everything to do with the fact that that's a factoid --
MYERS: Don't sell yourself short. You're smart.
SANCHEZ: No, I'm giving credit where credit is due. This is a -- CNN weather center put this out. I saw it as a tweet and wanted to let our viewers know just how good you guys are.
Now, 1926 -- that's like the time Betsy came through Florida and caused as many deaths as any hurricane in the history of the United States.
MYERS: Think about this. How did they know? They didn't even have satellites. There may have been another category four out there they didn't even know about.
SANCHEZ: That's true.
MYERS: There could have been three or four.
SANCHEZ: That's true.
MYERS: So -- thank goodness for satellites.
SANCHEZ: Was Betsy in '26? I'm going to have to look it up. Something like that.
MYERS: That was before my time.
SANCHEZ: Oh, yes. Like it's my time? Thanks a lot, buddy.
All right. An Arizona doctor accused of unbelievable things and he's still on the loose. This is -- this is what makes the story so interesting. There's a national manhunt underway right now. He's on our list you don't want to be on.
Also, up next, it's "R&R" time. Roland Martin is here to pick apart the primaries for us. Stay with us. A lot going on.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BILL MAHER, COMEDIAN: The one thing they hate is when you call them racist. The other thing they hate is black people. Well, we're not dealing with them. What, I mean, because they're a Muslim country that has nuclear weapons?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: (INAUDIBLE). Bill Maher last night talking about the Tea Party movement on "LARRY KING LIVE." He happened to come on -- the timing was interesting. He came on just as O'Donnell had won in Delaware, and he made some comments like those. Some of them are going viral already. We're going to share some of those with you in just a little bit.
Also, are you ashamed of your accent? There's now a class for that. People who live in the United States who have a Hispanic accent or a -- whatever accent it is that they have --
BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Southern, northern, whatever it is.
SANCHEZ: You can get rid of it. And that's trending.
BALDWIN: It is trending. People need jobs.
SANCHEZ: Good hair day, by the way.
We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: By the way, we just checked the file. And I was right in part. 1926 was one of the deadliest hurricanes in the history of the United States. Actually, there were two that hit at the same time.
BALDWIN: That was Betsy what you were talking about?
SANCHEZ: No. That's where I was wrong.
BALDWIN: Aha!
SANCHEZ: Betsy came along later. You grow up in Florida, you always remember Betsy. You think of Betsy.
OK. Tell me what you have because I'm very interested in some of your conversations.
BALDWIN: This story doesn't go around. Right. We talked to Ines Sainz Monday. It's unbelievable. And I wanted to just tell you sort of where it is today. Right.
She's that (INAUDIBLE), Azteca TV sports reporter. And I want to tell you, you know, we talked to her on Monday. She said she felt uncomfortable, right? This all goes back to what happened on the Jets sidelines and then in the locker room.
Now, the NFL, the Jets are investigating. The Association for Women in Sports Media,, they have called attention to this whole thing. She was talking to us about how, you know, some of the guys in there were hooting and hollering at her. And perhaps she didn't think it was as big a deal as others have.
Well, since the story broke, people seem to be taking sides. Some people saying, look, she asked for it because of what she was wearing.
Guys, pan on over. This is the TwitPic she actually added to her Twitter page.
SANCHEZ: Oh, my goodness.
BALDWIN: You can see -- you can see what she was wearing that day when all this happened. So, that's one of part of the story, you be the judge there. Or is this harassment?
Look, this is a bunch of football players in testosterone- filled environment. Was this harassment? The Redskins running back Clinton Portis, it's totally unrelated to the Jets, right? But in NFL's perspective, he weighed in this whole thing on a D.C. radio show. Listen to what he said.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
CLINTON PORTIS, WASHINGTON REDSKINS: You put a woman and give her a choice of 53 athletes, somebody got to be appealing to her. You know, somebody's got to spark her interest, so she's going to want somebody. I don't know what kind of woman want, if you get to go and look at 53 men's packages.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Oh, my God.
BALDWIN: Yes. I read that and heard that this morning.
SANCHEZ: He didn't really go there, did he?
BALDWIN: He really went there. And afterwards, you know he said mea culpa. He apologized.
SANCHEZ: So, somebody wrote a mea culpa for him.
BALDWIN: Yes. This is what was written, whether it was him or someone else. "I was wrong to make the comments I did, and I apologize. I respect the job that all reporters do. It is a tough job and we all have to work and act in a professional manner."
Redskins even coming forward today. They're apologizing. "The Washington Redskins have a clear and unambiguous policy about being professional on these issues and we will take the necessary steps to remind everyone about it."
Bottom line: people are still talking. So many people keep tweeting me and saying, why do we have women in these men's locker rooms to begin with? But, you know, some of these women, they want the sports reporter jobs. So, look, you know -- how does it go? Which way does it go? How should we feel?
SANCHEZ: It comes with the turf.
BALDWIN: Gosh, it kind of does.
SANCHEZ: It's interesting, though, because -- you know what? Clinton Portis is a young man. He plays football for a living. I don't think we could call him, you know, a highly-trained intellectual by any stretch of the imagination.
BALDWIN: I never met him.
SANCHEZ: Goes on -- you know, he's a good guy. He went to the University of Miami. But, you know, what he expressed was locker room talk. And the sports guy on the radio who's egging him on and laughing at his comments isn't doing him any favors by trying to get that kind of conversation out of him.
BALDWIN: It's not, one perspective.
SANCHEZ: Right.
BALDWIN: Story number two: looking for a job? Look, it's not a great economy. Many of us are. So, it may not be what you're saying. It may be how you're saying it that's keeping you out of work.
What am I talking about? Accents -- southern, northern, Spanish-speaking, all represented at this particular course's video from this college down in Fort Myers, Florida. And actually, these courses are apparently trending across the country, given the economy, given the unemployment rate.
They're calling these classes accent reduction. So they're learning American intonation. In fact, this one woman in this piece, she apparently had been looking for work for three years. Now, her accent isn't entirely gone. You're about to hear from her. But it's improved and she got a job. Here she is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CLEMENCIA, STUDENT: I saw that I think it was my accent that was keeping me out of any position.
ALVARO DUFFLAR, STUDENT: There is a lot of people looking for jobs and it's not only the way that you present your resume or your experience, but also the way that you express yourself.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So, you are in the workforce already. Why take a class now?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: To continue my education and to be able to -- people to understand me better.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: So, they were saying, look, it's more about not just your experienced resume but it's about how you sound. But at the same time, you don't want to lose your heritage. You dealt with that.
SANCHEZ: English is my second language.
BALDWIN: Yes.
SANCHEZ: I mean, I speak Spanish fluently because that's what I speak and then I had to learn to speak English. Obviously, I came at a younger age. But that's a fantastic idea.
BALDWIN: It just this whole trend, I have no idea.
SANCHEZ: Well, it's fantastic -- anyone who wants to improve themselves and how they appear, how they write, how they present --
BALDWIN: Can take courses, get a job.
SANCHEZ: Absolutely. I can't see any controversy here.
BALDWIN: Yes.
SANCHEZ: It's a good thing, right?
BALDWIN: Good.
SANCHEZ: Roland Martin is coming up next. Expect fireworks given the type of show we've had so far. Roland is going to join us here in just a little bit.
You're watching RICK'S LIST. I'm Rick Sanchez. And there's the man. "R&R" -- next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: And we welcome you back.
Next up on THE LIST: believe it or not, it's Dems today who are celebrating the Tea Party victories from last night. Why? Well, because infighting between the GOP and the Tea Party is now taking place. And it's time for "R&R."
Roland Martin is joining us now from D.C.
Roland, Republicans, they're in a bit of a quandary today. There's these huge fights going on between Karl Rove and other long- time Republicans. There are arguments about whether or not they should have embraced to begin with, or should now embrace some of these Tea Party victories from last night. What's your perspective on this?
ROLAND MARTIN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: This is the ultimate nightmare for Republicans and that is that you have these grassroots folks who are going against the establishment. And clearly, grassroots, they are winning.
Actually, I flew into D.C. about three hours ago. I ran into former congressman, Dick Armey, in the airport. Of course, he is the founder of FreedomWorks, and he was sitting here, you know, chomping on the hot dog, laughing at what's going on.
And he said, look what happens in Delaware. You have Mike Castle, $3 million, supposed to blow O'Donnell away. She has $400,000. He said, so, clearly, the establishment, they're not getting the message in terms of what's going on.
But here's the greatest problem, Rick. Independents talk about they want bipartisanship. They want people to work together.
Well, I can tell you right now -- in this environment, you're not going to be sending folks backed by the Tea Party who really want to work with the other side when it comes to legislation. And so, you're likely to see even more acrimony in Washington, D.C., if they win come November.
SANCHEZ: So -- well -- so, you believe this is a net loss to Republicans. Let me argue with you and say --
MARTIN: No, no. No, that's true. I believe it was a net loss to Republicans. What I'm saying is, it is a nightmare to Republicans because you have people who are uncomfortable supporting some of the views of Tea Party individuals and so, where are they going to get their money from. And so, what do you do, you have this whole infrastructure here, it's still a party infrastructure. The GOP, they don't want the party to get away from them, if you will, and that's the struggle that you see going on right now.
SANCHEZ: But it seems, from what we hear from some Republican leaders today, that they're going to have to swallow hard and --
MARTIN: Sure.
SANCHEZ: -- go ahead and anoint or follow or assist some of these folks. We heard Representative Cornyn (ph) just come out and say, you know what? We're going to give her the $42,000 to help her with her campaign, referring to O'Donnell who won last night in Delaware.
MARTIN: Sure.
SANCHEZ: Who they had said before they weren't going to help. So, look, the embracing -- the embracing part of this has begun, right?
MARTIN: This is real basic. As Dick Armey said -- and I think he's absolutely right -- you can't say open primary, anybody runs, whoever wins that's who you support. He used the analogy -- he said -- he said, Roland, you know, the Vikings, they were a little ticked off when they lost to the Saints. He said that's what happens when you lose, you are little angry.
So, the fact of the matter is, these folks ran as Republicans, they beat the establishment candidate and so, you typically are to support the party's nominee. And so, they really have no choice in doing so.
SANCHEZ: Here's the other part of this: folks who have lost, Jim Greer, for example, former chairman of the Florida Republican Party, former national mover and shaker, here's a text message Greer sent to reporters. Quote, "I've learned a great deal about the party so I deeply -- I so deeply loved and served. Unfortunately, I found that many within the GOP have racist views."
So, here's the guy -- this is the guy who tried to make sure that President Obama wouldn't be allowed to speak to school children because of the insinuations that he had raised. Now, after he kind of gets kicked out of the party, he's coming back and he's calling out Republicans. You expect we'll see more of this kind of thing?
MARTIN: Well, first of all, I think -- well, first of all, you're right. I actually debated Greer on "ANDERSON COOPER 360" on this very issue of the president speaking to some school children. Also, I believe I talked to him on the "CAMPBELL BROWN" show. So, he was all over the place.
But also, here's a guy who has been accused of stealing funds, angry with many Republicans in his state for throwing him out of the primary. Rick Scott attacked him viciously in the primary. Rick Scott is now the gubernatorial nominee in Florida. So, he certainly has nothing good to say about Republicans these days.
But I do believe, though, that we have to analyze his comments and really have him expound on that -- what does he mean the whole racist views? Is he actually saying that privately, he's had individuals talk about the president in a racist way and then is that driving this whole issue of he's a Muslim, driving the opposition to him.
SANCHEZ: You're right.
MARTIN: He has to answer those questions.
SANCHEZ: You're right on both counts. It may not represent any trends, and he does have his own skeletons he has to deal with, and he should be asked some of these questions and we'd invite him to come on and we'll ask him ourselves.
Roland Martin with "R&R" -- my thanks to you as usual. Appreciate it.
MARTIN: I appreciate it. Thanks so much.
SANCHEZ: All right. Here's Wolf Blitzer. He's going to be standing by with new information just in the -- just out on the world of politics. Stay right there.
I'm Rick Sanchez. This is RICK'S LIST. A lot going on. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Welcome back. I'm Rick Sanchez.
Time for a "CNN Equals Politics" update with Wolf Blitzer. He is among, if not the best of the best political team in television.
Wolf, tell them -- let us know what's going on right now.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Thanks very much, Rick. Very nice of you to say that.
We're talking here on the political ticker, lots of stories that we're following. A lot of Democrats almost euphoric about the Christine O'Donnell win in Delaware. My only caution to them is: don't necessarily start being all that euphoric. You never know what happens in politics.
She just beat one of the most popular, if not the most popular politician in the state of Delaware, Mike Castle. And she's got a lot of momentum. She's got a lot of enthusiasm among her conservative Tea Party base.
She's got Sarah Palin. She'll be formidable in the weeks ahead. This is by no means a done deal. We've got a story on that.
Mitt Romney, though, who probably wants to run for president once again in 2012, he's formally endorsed Christine O'Donnell, given her some money. Michael Steele, the chairman of the Republican Party, also has endorsed her. The Republicans are going to do the best they can.
This would have been a lot, there's no doubt about it, for the Republicans if Mike Castle had won. He was very popular. Now, they're going to have to fight. They still might win but we'll see what happens.
Nancy Pelosi is going after Michael Steele, by the way, on his bus tour that is just launched from Washington, there in Virginia right now -- Michael Steele taking that bus to 48 states in the coming weeks to generate support for Republican candidates across the country.
The political season, Rick, it's hot and heavy right now, especially here in Washington where we're watching all of it.
