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Father Confronts Bullies; Lady Gaga vs. "Don`t Ask, Don`t Tell

Aired September 21, 2010 - 21:00:00   ET


JOY BEHAR, HOST: Octo-mom`s back in the news. And even though she`s in financial trouble she refuses to do porn. She says nobody gets to see her girly parts except her eight doctors, 12 fertility clinic workers and 14 children. What can I say? The girl`s just shy.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Coming up on The Joy Behar Show, a father storms on to his daughter`s school bus and threatens the kids he says was bullying his daughter. What this dad did was illegal, but he`s getting loads of support from parents nationwide. How far is too far when it comes to protecting your kids?

Then Bristol Palin makes her big debut on with the "Dancing with the Stars". Did her Kate Gosselin apprenticeship pay off?

Outspoken director Oliver Stone stops by to talk Tea Party, Palin and, of course, his new "Wall Street" sequel.

That and more starting right now.

BEHAR: A Florida father has apologized for storming on to his daughter`s school bus and confronting her bullies in a loud expletive- filled rant. Watch.


JAMES WILLIE JONES, CONFRONTED DAUGHTER`S BULLIES: Now everybody sit down. Everybody sit down. Show me which one. Show me which one. This is my daughter and I will kill a (EXPLETIVE DELETED) to back her. If anything happens to my daughter I`m going to (EXPLETIVE DELETED) you up and everybody on this (EXPLETIVE DELETED).


BEHAR: James Willie Jones was arrested after the incident but has been released after posting $2,000 bail. Despite his legal troubles, many across America are calling him a hero for protecting his daughter who has cerebral palsy. He said he`s sorry for his actions. But should he be?

Here with me now, Steve Wilkos, talk show host and former police officer; Sirdeaner Walker, whose 11-year-old son sadly took his own life after being bullied; Natalie Jackson, the attorney for James Jones; and with us by phone, the man himself.

James, let me start with you. Why did you decide to apologize?

JONES (via telephone): Well, I tried to apologize. I knew my actions were wrong. At the time I felt like a father and a protector of my daughter and my daughter was needing that protection that I think I would definitely not have --

BEHAR: Well, a lot of people agree with that, that they -- they`re calling you a hero. Do you think you`re a hero?

JONES: No. No. Not by a long shot. I mean, we -- as a father and mother and a parent, single parent, even in broken homes we have to still stand up for our kids and stuff. Unfortunately my daughter`s a little more special and stuff to me in my heart, but everybody has their own opinion about their own kids.

No, I`m not a hero. I`m just a plain dad trying to make a living and trying to love my kids the way I want them to love me.

BEHAR: You know, it`s interesting that heroes always say that. I`m not a hero. I`m just doing what I did.

Natalie, James is charged with two misdemeanors. Are you going to argue for the charges to be dropped?

NATALIE JACKSON, ATTORNEY FOR JAMES JONES: Joy, we`re going to argue for the charges to be dropped because we are criminal defense lawyers, so, yes. However, I`ve spoken to James about that and he feels that, you know, whatever is just, he`ll take it.

BEHAR: Uh-huh.

JACKSON: And that`s what makes him my hero, Joy.

BEHAR: James, let me ask you something. What led you to the breaking point that you came to in that incident?

JONES: Well, I really -- you know, really my intention was not even to go that far. I didn`t even have an intention. Back up. My intention was to get my daughter on the bus, get her to school, get her to go to school and come back home safely. Like -- we entrust our bus drivers and everybody that, you know, take them back and forth. That`s what we entrust the bus drivers to do.

When I got out there and it was just a lot of chaos, people -- I mean, a lot of -- people hanging out the window. Leading up when she started telling me about everything that had been going on with her. I sat there and waited on the bus for so long. And it was like that 20-minute wait that was late felt like an eternity to me.

Then when I -- I don`t know. When I looked back and she was crying -- it was -- I don`t know.

BEHAR: It did it. It was your breaking point I think.

I`d like to thank you for coming on the phone with us, James. Good luck with the legal problems that you`re having now. We`re rooting for you.

JONES: Thank you very much. Thank you very much. You have a nice evening. Thank you.

BEHAR: Thank you so much.

All right. Now, I want to turn to the rest of my panel. But Natalie, why wasn`t somebody else on the bus other than the driver? When I was a teacher they always protested against team teaching for some reason, for budget cuts. Seemed to me they should have had an air marshal on the bus, you have a handicapped child with other children. Why isn`t that right?


BEHAR: Go ahead.

JACKSON: Well, Joy, I think that the school board would tell you it`s funding; it always comes down to funding. But at some point we have to choose our children over funding. We have to choose our children over taxes and whether or not we pay it. But that`s a whole different story so I won`t get into that.

BEHAR: Right. It`s just that I find that appalling that that happened and they`re relying on the bus driver to be able to get up from his driver`s seat and go back in the bus. It`s outrageous, really, to me.

JACKSON: Yes. It`s hard.

BEHAR: Let me start to Sirdeaner for a minute. When a parent finds out that his or her children are being bullied, what`s the first thing they should do?

SIRDEANER WALKER, SON KILLED HIMSELF AFTER BEING BULLIED: The first thing a parent should do is to contact the school administrators immediately. They should contact the school administrators. They should contact their child`s teacher. They should let everyone know that deals with their child during the school day that their child is being bullied.

BEHAR: Ok. Steve, if a parent -- yes, go ahead. Then I`ll get you in.

JACKSON: I was going to say that that information has to be made available to parents. That`s the problem, Joy, is that, you know, we -- there are things that everyone should do in retrospect, but we need to make it so that people know before something like this happens.


JACKSON: Most people don`t know to do that.

BEHAR: But Steve, if a parent does know, should he step in?

STEVE WILKOS, TALK SHOW HOST: I mean I certainly would if I saw my kids being bullied. I wouldn`t just sit on the sidelines. I definitely would interject. I would hope that I would be in a little more control of my emotion than James.

And I`m not faulting James. He has a special needs daughter. He sees his daughter being bullied, seeing his daughter cry. That`s -- that`s a pretty tough thing for a father or mother to see. And I probably would be just as mad as James.

Like I said, I think I would handle it a little different way. My son, himself, he`s a little younger, but he was -- he had a situation where a boy was constantly on him, cracked him in the head with a block. When I went into that school and saw my son with this big egg on his head, I was furious. I`m like, I was answers.

I talked to the teachers. We started going through steps with the principal. I sit down with the other parents. One thing James, and I hope when he watches this and realizes the situation, he took it to a level where he might be incarcerated. It`s possible he could, probably not.

BEHAR: He was so passionate I think.

WILKOS: I would hope that he wouldn`t. But you have to think if that would happen then he wouldn`t be there to protect his daughter. And that`s what you have to kind of keep in mind.

BEHAR: That`s true. He was not really --

WILKOS: The thing I`m really mad about this story is that, what kind of kids are we raising here that they`re picking on a special needs --

BEHAR: Little brats. Little brats.

WILKOS: Exactly. We`re not teaching any of our kids to say, stand up for somebody when you see this. There`s a bus full of kids and nobody`s standing up.


BEHAR: Well, that`s something they should teach children. If someone`s being bullied you speak up and say, excuse me, and I don`t like that.

Let me go to you Sirdeaner. Your son unfortunately committed suicide. Did you have any signs that he was in such agony and such pain?

WALKER: I didn`t have signs, but my son did tell me he was being bullied at school, and I did approach the administrators. I`d also like to comment to say we have been working on federal legislation, the Safe Schools Improvement Act. If the Safe Schools Improvement Act were enacted, it would have protections. It would be preventative instead of being reactionary.

BEHAR: Are you working for that? You`re working toward that?

WALKER: Yes, we are. And the Safe Schools Improvement Act would have enumerated categories of protection for children that are disabled, for children that are gender identity or gender expression --

BEHAR: Right.

WALKER: -- race and religion. It also would make schools accountable. They would be mandated reporters, bus drivers. Everyone that is involved with your children would have to report when they see an incident of bullying.

What`s happening now is our children have a right to go to school in a safe environment. But unfortunately, our children are being attacked and victimized, and there are bystanders that know this is wrong but they won`t stand up because they`re in fear that they will be attacked next.

BEHAR: That`s what we were just saying basically. People are afraid or they`re just --

WILKOS: Well, it`s a situation that I think is really getting out of hand. And we try to address it on our show. You read in the paper, constantly, we see kids being bullied. And unfortunately --

BEHAR: What would you do if your kid`s the bully? What if you`re raising a little brat?

WILKOS: You know what? I`ll tell you what. I would do whatever I could, and I would be sickened if my kid grew up to be a bully. I try to be involved with my kids` lives.

And maybe that`s the problem, with all these kids on the bus, their parents aren`t involved and they`re not showing them from right and wrong and they`re acting like this.

BEHAR: Most kids who are bullies were bullied themselves --

WALKER: That`s right.

BEHAR: -- probably by their own parents.

I ran out of time. Thanks everyone, very much. We`ll be back in a minute.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Coming up a little later on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW, Bristol Palin makes her "Dancing with the Stars" debut. We`ll tell you what Sarah Palin had to say about Bristol`s performance.

And director Oliver Stone drops by to talk about his new sequel to "Wall Street".

Now back to Joy.

BEHAR: The actor Randy Quaid and his wife Evi are in trouble with the law. They were arrested after the owner of their former home in Santa Barbara called police to say they were squatting there and apparently wrecking the joint.

With me to discuss this and other stories are comedian Michele Balan; Mark Blankenship, editor of; and actress Carly Craig.

Welcome, guys.


BEHAR: Now, a lot of people go back to their old schools to visit. But these two went back to their old house and squatted there. I guess they felt that it was never legal to basically sell that house, but there are papers that say it was.

So let`s take a look at some of the claims while they were there. They broke a $7,000 mirror. And they hung a self-portrait over the fireplace in its place. I love that.

They carved initials in the mailbox. I don`t know what that`s about.

They left dirty dishes in the sink, footprints in the house. And they hung -- and they hung clothes in the closet. They really took over the place.

MICHELE BALAN, COMEDIAN: Well, first of all, it`s funny that they say footprints. It`s like, who lived there "Lochness Monster?" Footprint and the $7,000 mirror, they just replaced it with their wanted poster probably.

BEHAR: But it was all -- Mark, if you`re going to squat, shouldn`t you be a little less obvious than this?

BLANKENSHIP: Yes. You should probably also not leave evidence of who you are hanging over the fireplace when you leave the house so that the cops can be like, oh, it`s probably these two --


BLANKENSHIP: -- let`s look for them.

BEHAR: Exactly. You know Carly, you`re a movie star.

CARLY CRAIG, ACTRESS: Oh thank you. Yes.

BEHAR: Isn`t this odd for movie stars to be acting in this way?

CRAIG: I`m just waiting for their, like, Joaquin Phoenix movie to come out because everything they do is so bizarre. That I didn`t know --

BEHAR: This way --

CRAIG: -- yes, it`s like -- it`s like that they`re both going so crazy at the same time that I`m like, when is this going to come out that this is all fake and they are just messing with us?


CRAIG: Do you know what I mean?

BALAN: Working on a new reality show it`s been to flip this house, steal this house.


CRAIG: I like that.

BLANKENSHIP: I kind of wish that it were like a big act. But I have friends -- because I`m from the theater community. And I have friends who have worked on projects with them and they say that it`s really not an acting by the end of it.

CRAIG: Are they crazy?

BLANKENSHIP: And like their nickname on a project they worked on was Al-Qaeda. So it`s kind of probably not a joke. It`s a sad thing.

BEHAR: So they are like Bonnie and Clyde.


BEHAR: They do it always together.

CRAIG: They are like the cheap version of Bonnie and Clyde.


BEHAR: I think Bonnie and Clyde we`re the cheap version --

BALAN: A little Amish looking. But you know the wife also produced - -

BEHAR: Who`s Amish looking?

BALAN: The Randy Quaid he looks -- I mean, yes doesn`t he?

BEHAR: They`re Amish looking?

BALAN: I`m going to say, they look nuts. But you know the wife -- the wife was also a producer of a movie called "The Debtors." Did you know that?

BEHAR: No I didn`t know that.

BALAN: "The Debtors" --

BLANKENSHIP: Are you serious?

BALAN: And also another one called "The Curse of the Starving Family" or something. I swear. I looked it up.



BEHAR: Well, she`s pretty. The wife is very attractive.


BEHAR: Ok, Let`s change to another story. Believe it or not, Victoria and David Beckham`s 8-year-old son, Romeo, has inked a deal to design sunglasses. I say it`s fabulous. It`s the perfect complement to his new fragrance, "booger".

Now, what 8-year-old, Michele, has the fashion sense to design anything, or do they?

BALAN: You know what, maybe he`s making them out of play dough. I have no idea, but you know what is amazing, an 8-year-old, does he even have working papers?

BEHAR: Yes --

BALAN: He could have -- who`s his CEO, his nanny? I mean that`s why this --

BEHAR: But there was -- there was some gay kids you`ll talk to, gay boys --


BEHAR: And they were designers at the age of 5.

BALAN: Right, right.

BEHAR: I mean, so it`s not that weird for a kid to design these. But the fact that he has like --

BALAN: A deal.

BEHAR: He has a deal.

CRAIG: Designers -- yes designers at the age of 5. What does that mean? Like do they have deals and they`re -- and they`re actually selling them and everything?



BLANKENSHIP: Well, I designed a flying car when I was 5, but nobody, like -- I`m not famous enough I guess.

CRAIG: Nobody`s flying in your car.

BLANKENSHIP: Nobody wanted -- nobody made a prototype.

BALAN: Somebody in that family`s making money.


BALAN: Thank God.

BEHAR: Beckham is making a fortune. She has a clothing line.

BALAN: I know.

BEHAR: He`s a -- he`s a soccer player. That -- he`s very, very famous and very talented. They make a lot of money. But you know, he`s not the only kid. There`s also Lourdes --

BALAN: Right.


BEHAR: Madonna`s 13-year-old daughter has her own clothing line.



CRAIG: I kind of want to buy her stuff, though. Because I`ve seen her in the magazine --


CRAIG: And I kind of like the way she dresses.

BEHAR: She`s good.

CRAIG: Madonna is her mom --


CRAIG: Who`s been setting trends forever. She`s 13 I know but still --

BALAN: But here`s the problem with the unemployment. All the jobs are going to 10 and 13-year-olds. Maybe -- maybe we try -- and we can`t hire you, you`re not 8.

BEHAR: I know. I know.

BALAN: I mean, well and the other thing, too, and a 10-year-old opera singer. What`s happening --


BLANKESHIP: And with kids like this? With my fashion line, like Will Smith`s daughter has a rap single out now --

CRAIG: Yes, yes.

BLANKENSHIP: -- about whipping her hair around.

BEHAR: Her name is Will, she`s 9 years old.

BALAN: Ok, compared to them, Justin Bieber seems old now.

BLANKENSHIP: I know. And the other thing is it like at least Justin Bieber, like, worked. It just seems like, oh, my mom is famous and my dad is famous, let`s not even hide the nepotism.

BALAN: Yes, yes, yes.

BLANKENSHIP: It`s like yes.


BEHAR: I know but that`s the way the business operates. It`s mostly nepotism I think at this point.


CRAIG: They`re going to grow up very entitled, you know what I mean? Like thinking they know everything from at a young age and they are going to grow up and to be really kind of like horrible people.

BEHAR: And you, did you have any help with your career in your --

CRAIG: In my family?

BEHAR: Yes. Nobody?


BEHAR: Did you?


BEHAR: Did you?

BALAN: Yes, my family.



CRAIG: I don`t think there`s anything wrong with that. But at that age it`s like no childhood at all.


CRAIG: If you look at -- at most of the history of people like that, they end up kind of like Lindsay Lohans.

BALAN: Yes, exactly.

BEHAR: Right.


BEHAR: Ok, let`s -- let`s try to get through this one. Moving on with the third story if we can get it in, with the threat of foreclosure on the horizon, Octomom, Nadya Suleman says she`ll do whatever it takes to keep her home except get naked.

Really, even for the cover of breeders digest? Ok, those are the jokes, ladies and gentlemen. But you know she`s been offered $500,000 to do, you know, to appear in just one scene. She`s turning them down. Why don`t these people just donate the money?

CRAIG: I say thank God that she said no. I really don`t want to see her vagina after what`s come out of it. You know what I mean?

BEHAR: But maybe some of my crew would like to see it, ok?

CRAIG: Do you want to see her vagina? Because she`s got like 85 babies it`s just like --

BALAN: Putting down a hallway --

BEHAR: Maybe she should consider -- should she consider the offer? I mean, she`s desperate.

BLANKENSHIP: Well, look, first of all, if you gave me $30, I would take my shirt off. So I don`t know but --

CRAIG: Do we have $30?

BLANKENSHIP: Yes. Seriously. The other thing -- what I don`t understand is, it`s not like she`s been a paragon of class until right now. So why is this the line? You know, why is this the place where she stops. Maybe she`s waiting for more money. I don`t know.

BALAN: I think she`s consistent. She won`t do anything for money.

BEHAR: Exactly. I said yesterday and I`ll say it again, some of these rich pro lifers should just throw her some money.

BALAN: She wants a sitcom, eight is more than enough.

BEHAR: Ok guys. When we come back, Lady Gaga takes a stand against "don`t ask, don`t tell". We`ll tell.


BEHAR: I`m back with my panel. Lady Gaga spoke out against "don`t ask, don`t tell" at a rally in Maine yesterday saying the real problem in the military is homophobic soldiers. Take a look.


LADY GAGA, SINGER: I would like to propose a new law. A law that sends home the soldier that has the problem. Our new law is called "if you don`t like it, go home".

BEHAR: I`ll tell you, I find it offensive that she would say that about soldiers. I mean, you`re attacking people who are defending you. Whether you agree with the war, whether you don`t, these guys are out there. I think it`s obnoxious. What do you think?

BLANKENSHIP: I feel like, is the solution to a law that`s built in hate even to playfully suggest more intolerance from the other side?

BEHAR: That`s a good point. That`s a very good point. I mean, she suggested that she -- you know, I mean, it`s amazing in a way, but today the senate killed a bill that included a provision for "don`t ask, don`t tell". Do you think that she had anything to do with it? Did she influence them with his crazy talk?

BLANKENSHIP: I can`t imagine that Lady Gaga is the kind of person --

BEHAR: She`s a big star.

BLANKENSHIP: The thing I think that she maybe did. Every time she`s appeared about this issue, she`s had herself surrounded with soldiers who were discharged under the law. Maybe there`s an impact to be had if she`s got -- real human beings are affected by the law. I can`t imagine that she, herself, could have that much of an impact. But maybe seeing real people who were affected by it would.

CRAIG: The thing I think that`s good about Lady Gaga speaking out about it, she has a lot of young fans that they don`t pay attention to politics yet and stuff like that, that may now learn what this is and maybe go educate themselves on it and make their own decisions on it. I don`t think it`s a bad thing that she`s speaking out because she has so many fans.

BEHAR: I know. But to take a shot at the soldiers who are there already, it`s a crazy position, I think. Do you disagree with me?

BALAN: Like you said about one or the other, the whole thing about being gay in the military from the beginning, you know, it all started with men didn`t want to share a locker room with gay men, afraid of harassment. That`s how it all began.

I`m thinking, I`m a woman, you know, we`ve been harassed forever.

BEHAR: That`s true.

BALAN: You know what I mean? That`s what they were worried about.

BEHAR: They were worried.

BALAN: They also (INAUDIBLE) in the shower.

BEHAR: Other countries don`t worry about it. Israel has --


BALAN: Israel have gay kids. They don`t -- anybody could fight.

BEHAR: Later in the fight she had this to say. Watch.


LADY GAGA: Equality is the prime rib of America, but because I`m gay I don`t get to enjoy the greatest cut of meat my country has to offer.


BEHAR: What is she speaking of? What is her obsession with meat? First she wears a meat dress.

CRAIG: In the meat dress she was like on Ellen or something talking about how the meat dress she wore it for the gays. Everything`s for the gays. I like her. I think she`s very talented but I don`t really understand.


BALAN: How can you make a policy change if it`s someone who wears beef?

BEHAR: What do you think of her in this case Mark?

BLANKENSHIP: You mean in relationship to the meat metaphor? I just feel like -- I feel like that this is a case of someone who`s got great intentions and great ideas but who maybe is trying a little too hard to make poetry out of something.

BEHAR: I know. She needs to take a rest.

Thanks, everybody, very much. Be sure to catch Carly in the upcoming movie, "Full Pass" with moi.

All the details from Bristol Palin`s "Dancing with the Stars" debut up next.


BEHAR: In her debut on "DANCING WITH THE STARS" Bristol Palin did it all. She shimmied, she shook, danced, she dipped. The only thing she didn`t do was shoot a moose. Take a look.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Don`t turn off the lights because I don`t want to see mama told me not to come that ain`t the way to have fun that ain`t the way to have fun --


BEHAR: Honestly she wasn`t half as bad as, let`s say, David Hasselhoff who was leaping around like he had bed bugs in his shorts. Here now to discuss this further is Chris Jacobs, co-host of "THE INSIDER" who has the latest DANCING WITH THE STARS news. Hello, hello, how do you think Bristol did?



JACOBS: I think she did better than expected. You know first of all, before we start saying congratulations on your 3,000th VIEW show. You`ve been covering that on THE INSIDER as well, so congratulations.

BEHAR: Thank you. And we are -- this is our year anniversary on HLN, too. One year.

JACOBS: Well congratulations again. When are we going to see you on "DANCING WITH THE STARS," Joy

JACOBS: Don`t bet on it, Chris. OK? Don`t go there.

BEHAR: Don`t go there.

JACOBS: Well I think Bristol -- I think Bristol did better than expected. Of course she was nervous. But this is the first week of the show. This is when all the contestants are kind of, you know, shaking off the rust, feeling their nerves. I think she`ll get better as the weeks go by.

BEHAR: All right well you were backstage. How was she acting backstage? She seemed nervous to me.

JACOBS: She was nervous. I mean, you know, let`s be honest. She`s what, 19, 20 years old. She`s a young woman. So of course she`s going to be nervous with all this attention she`s been receiving. She keeps her answers short. I think she`s been, you know, advised by her family and their advisers to, you know, remain -- remain as smart as she can be in this. You know, I think she`s having fun with it, but she was definitely nervous.

BEHAR: Uh-huh. Where was her mother, miss Sarah Palin? Where was she? She was suppose to be there.


JACOBS: She was expected to be there last night, but Bristol told me that it was due to a scheduling conflict that --

BEHAR: Oh, really, the old scheduling conflict excuse.

JACOBS: It turns out she was twittering from a party she was having up in Alaska, but Bristol also told me that Sarah will be there next Monday. Hopefully Bristol will be, too.

BEHAR: Well we don`t know. I think the audience will keep her there. They want the continuing saga unfold with the Palins. Do you know --

JACOBS: I think there`s some easier marks out there who are going to be eliminated first.

BEHAR: Probably. Like who? Hasselhoff. Out.

JACOBS: You know, I think David is going to make it through just by virtue of his character. You know, I think Michael Bolton is in trouble.


JACOBS: And you know, although -- yes. Probably Michael Bolton.

BEHAR: How about "The Situation?" How about him?

JACOBS: No way. "The Situation" is going to make the final four, I guarantee you.


JACOBS: Just because people are caught up with the "JERSEY SHORE" phenomenon. He`s going to -- he`s going to get better as the weeks go by. This kid has got so much charisma. He`s going to make it through.

BEHAR: So it`s a popularity contest, it`s not a dance -- maybe in that case I should go on.

JACOBS: Well, that`s why -- Joy, you would make it to the finals, no question. But I think you`re right. It is a popularity contest. That`s why they weigh the, you know, how much say the judges has versus how much say America has when they vote. And America --

BEHAR: Will Florence Henderson make it?

JACOBS: She`s got my vote.

BEHAR: She`s got my vote.

JACOBS: I saw every episode of the Brady Bunch twice. I can quote you any episode you want to hear. Yes, I think she will make it to the final, you know, eight or six.

BEHAR: OK, thanks very much, Chris.

JACOBS: It`s nigh pleasure, Joy.

BEHAR: Turning now to a man who captured the greed and self-interest that seemed to define the 1980s with his award winning movie "Wall Street" he`s back with a timely sequel in "Wall Street: Money Never Sleeps," which opens this Friday, nationwide. Welcome three time Oscar winning director Oliver Stone. Oliver it is so nice to see you.


BEHAR: We did have dinner one night. So, I feel like I know you.

STONE: Did I pay for it?

BEHAR: Yes, you did, of course. Of course you did.

STONE: You`re great.


BEHAR: A three time Oscar winner, baby. You better pick up the check. Before you got here, I was talking to this reporter about "DANCING WITH THE STARS" and Bristol Palin, you know, Sarah`s daughter. And I just wanted to ask you about Sarah Palin. I mean what do you think of her? Is she going to be influential really in a real way or not?

STONE: Well I feel two ways about her. I mean I wouldn`t pay attention to her. I think the media`s made more of her. And I think it`s a shame. You`re empowering her by talk to her. But number two, if she runs, let her run. I think she`d lose because I think she`s not going to appeal to people who think at all. And I think --

BEHAR: Well that`s the -- that could possibly be not the majority of people though.

STONE: If that`s the case then America deserves their leaders the way they pick them. If she is president of the United States, god forbid, you know, we`re in for a rocky road, even worse than Mr. Bush Jr. Who you share the same feelings I do. America will find out. We`ll go that way. Listen, we`re in too many wars. We`re way overreaching.

BEHAR: She can`t do that much damage maybe.

STONE: That`s sort of what I`m trying to say. We can only go so far. Can we blow ourselves up? Perhaps.

BEHAR: In your research, I was wondering --

STONE: I don`t say that lightly. I mean, Dick Cheney, as much of a threat to the idea of America using nuclear weapons as anybody.

BEHAR: That`s true.

STONE: So we`ve been there. We`ve been there.

BEHAR: That`s right. He`s dangerous, but you know, he`s getting older now and he`s not well.

STONE: He is dangerous, he was very dangerous. Very dangerous man.

BEHAR: agree with you.

STONE: The whole war on terror, created the aspect of fear. She does the same thing. America, if you look at the history, 12 parts for next year --

BEHAR: When`s that coming out?

STONE: Big deal. Working on it for three years. We have parties of no nothings. There`s been all kinds of rebellions. In 1923 in Washington I believe, like, 100,000 Ku Klux Klan people dressed in white sheets walked down main street, 100,000. Ku Klux Klan was popular after world war I.

BEHAR: In some parts of the country.

STONE: That`s why "The Birth Of The Nation" was such a popular film.

BEHAR: I see. In your research, who to you think was worse, Nixon or George W. Bush as president?

STONE: Bush. Bush.

BEHAR: Who was crazier? Bush was worse.

STONE: Bush was more dangerous. I mean he - I think -- our movie "Wall Street" kind of deals with the concept of 30 years of mismanagement. The deregulations that allowed Wall Street and the banks to get so out of hand started really with Reagan and carried through Clinton. Robert Ruben and Greenspan were there during the Clinton era and then they carry right into Bush Jr. Who did really - wasn`t interested in enforcement. None of the people he appointed, Christopher Cox at the SEC, none of these people did their job.

BEHAR: Right.

STONE: So the fox was not watching - the fox was watching the chicken coop. That was the problem.

BEHAR: Yes, yes. Let me talk to you -- before we get to your movie, because -- which I really enjoyed very much, I want to talk about President Obama. Some supporters are unhappy with him. Watch this clip from yesterday.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m one of your middle class Americans, and quite frankly I`m exhausted. I`m exhausted of defending you, defending your administration. Defending the change that I voted for. And deeply disappointed where we are right now.


BEHAR: You know, I say she`s a plant. What do you say?

STONE: No, it reminds me of the Nixon -- Nixon when I did a movie about Nixon, he did a town hall meeting. He got killed because it was all supposed to be controlled and there`s one black man who got through and said, Mr. Nixon, why are you dividing this country? And Nixon didn`t know what to say. Sometimes people get in there. I don`t think you can do those things too easily. I`m glad he did it. I like Obama. I think he`s moderate and smart and he is trying to reform a system which is essentially glued up. And he`s got tremendous enemies. I`m trying to - I`m rooting for him. I mean it`s either him or Palin or Bush.

BEHAR: I agree with that. I mean imagine if McCain and Palin got in, what condition we`d be in.

STONE: It would be very rough right now. But you know what -

BEHAR: Oh my god.

STONE: I go back to my previous argument, if they`re there, maybe we`d learn our lesson. Maybe, if we didn`t learn it from Bush Jr., we`re never going to learn it.

BEHAR: Look, they want to go right back to it. They want to go back to the tax cuts --

STONE: Which is to see - succeed in California on the other side.

BEHAR: OK, we`ll be right back. Much more with Oliver Stone when we come back.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Say bulls make money, bears make money, and pigs they get slaughtered.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I thought this was a charity event, Gordon. Why don`t you go find some?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Tell you what, I`ll make you a deal. You stop telling lies about me, I`ll stop telling the truth about you.


BEHAR: I love that line. We`re back with Oliver Stone, the director of "Wall Street: Money Never Sleeps." your movie is about greed and selfishness basically.

STONE: No, it`s about love and trust, too.

BEHAR: Well there is some of that, too, but yes, a little bit. There`s a --

STONE: The whole movie does revolve around a relationship between Shia LaBeouf.


STONE: Don`t give it away completely.

BEHAR: Yes I`m not. I said it in French.


BEHAR: So, now you have said Goldman Sachs is evil. Evil, maybe.

STONE: I was not the only one, evil empire.

BEHAR: Why do you say maybe? Why maybe?

STONE: When did I say maybe?

BEHAR: That`s what it says here. "Goldman Sachs is evil, period. Maybe." Unquote.

STONE: I feel that they are, were an evil empire. Absolutely, you know, when the banks took over what gecko was doing in the 1980s, the geckos disappeared. Mike Mill went to jail.

BEHAR: Right.

STONE: It was an end of the era, the Buccaneers disappeared except for a few icons. So in the 1990s the hedge funders took over that job. They made big, big money, much bigger than gecko. In the 2000s, the bank said, the hedge fund is making so much dough, we have to get into the business.

BEHAR: Right.

STONE: So with the deregulations we talked about earlier, they really had license now. The banking there used to be investment banks and commercial banks. You know, there was a difference. Now they collapsed them. There`s no firewall. And a bank, what is a bank? Goldman doesn`t take deposits. They get cheap government money. You can`t go - and what is it you do with your money? Do you put it in the bank? You get one percent? Think about that.

BEHAR: I get 1percent.

STONE: That sucks.

BEHAR: I`m an idiot?

STONE: In the old days.


STONE: You weren`t old enough to remember, you get three four percent, maybe in the good days you got six percent.

BEHAR: I remember even higher than that.

STONE: What if you`re an older person and don`t want to play the stock market. You don`t want to bet. What do you do? You have a 401? A lot of that was sold out. And they get trashed by these banks because they were selling junk to the American -- toxic.

BEHAR: Yes and the Bernie Madoff of the world. Who were just even worse.

STONE: Well that was much worse -

BEHAR: Criminal -

STONE: He never, he was just - I tell you these are legitimate banks.

BEHAR: Legit.

STONE: This is the central, institutional, aspect of our society. Without good banks how do we survive as a country?

BEHAR: Do you think they`re correcting it at all?

STONE: They`re trading for themselves, Joy. If the facts are what I hear, Goldman at one year was making 70 percent of its profit trading for itself. Proprietary trading. This is what Paul Volcker was saying is they got to get rid of these - they got to pass rules that split the banks back up.

BEHAR: Uh-huh. You know, I was reading Paul Krugman the other day in the "Times."

STONE: Yes he`s good.

BEHAR: The title was that the angry rich. He feels a lot of these billionaires, multimillionaires and billionaires are furious they have to get a tax increase which is really not a tax increase at all. It`s just going back to what it was when, I believe when Clinton was in office.

STONE: Yes, yes.

BEHAR: Why are they so pissed off about these people? They have so much money.

STONE: You know, it`s not about - I don`t think it is about that. I mean I pay 50 percent at the end of the day. You probably do.

BEHAR: I do.

STONE: It`s a lot of dough, yes. We work very hard. But we try to create things. We try to produce things. I think the production. Now here`s the key, I think producers should be encouraged. But if you`re a speculator and don`t produce anything, you should be taxed differently. I think there should be a bank tax.

BEHAR: Uh huh.

STONE: I always felt that. I think there should be a speculation tax. Much higher. And there`s been proposals to that effect. They get defeated by the Republicans in Congress.

BEHAR: Of course.

STONE: I would put a tax on speculations as much as I could. Because if you roll over stuff and you`re making money with money, bet -- like a casino, that`s when you should really be taxed. A real casino tax. But I don`t think that really taxing productivity is wise beyond a certain point. I`ll pay 50 percent, I think when you get to the 60 percent mark you`re really dying. Because you give jobs, I don`t know.

BEHAR: That`s right, you produce something. You manufacture something.

STONE: That`s what I think is the key. We have to -- my dad used to say, who`s a stockbroker, you know, no profit without production.

BEHAR: He was a smart man. It was interesting, also, the Susan Sarandon part of the movie. Where she plays a realtor who basically is also taken in by the dream and the real estate deals and everything. So how much do ordinary Americans, how much are they at fault would you say?

STONE: Quite a bit. They fell into the trap. You know, anybody who has a character he believes he can borrow money eternally and not pay it back does not have good character. Your parents are suppose to tell you, hey, don`t borrow, pay back, right?

BEHAR: People want a house. They want a house.

STONE: Well that stuff, it doesn`t work that way. You can`t get a house if you can`t really afford one.

BEHAR: But no one has -- a lot of people don`t have the down payment is the problem. So they said, OK, you don`t need a down payment. You know?

STONE: That`s right. They were encouraged. So what. Don`t you read a contract? They have balloon payments. You get the house for nothing and pay much more later. It was disgusting what they did.


STONE: The bankers were greedy. They misled the public. But the public has an obligation to read the contract you know.

BEHAR: Uh huh.

STONE: No I think Susan Sarandon was a great character because she was a nurse in the film.

BEHAR: That`s right.

STONE: Makes the point, you were a great nurse, you were productive and you decided along the line that you could flip houses and make more money, which she does, but she had good years. But now she`s having a down turn.

BEHAR: Then she got in trouble.

STONE: Then she got wiped out.

BEHAR: You know Michael Douglas is in the movie. He was quite wonderful, as usual. He plays gecko coming out of jail. I`ve seen the -- they have the trailer. I`m not giving anything away here. He`s getting treated for throat cancer now. Was he ill during the filming of the movie?

STONE: Apparently he was. We saw no sign of it.

BEHAR: Did he know?


BEHAR: He didn`t know he was sick?

STONE: No. I mean, I don`t think he found out until midsummer. I think it was missed. I think it was looked at by specialists and it was missed.

BEHAR: Oh. And the other thing that you said was interesting about him, you said Michael played the role as if it were his life. That is very interesting. I presume you`re talking about it when he`s talking about his son who was a drug addict and --

STONE: I think I`m not quite sure the context. But I was trying to say that Michael in 23 years since the first film, in which he played -- I loved the role, but he was a shallow man, really, a superficial man who was interested in money. In this new movie he`s an older man, he`s been through life, he`s been through divorces and tragedies, as many of us have, and he`s deepened. And I think, I sense the role is much deeper and he`s more mature and he`s more interesting as an actor to me.

BEHAR: Yes. He has a scene where he`s talking about a son that has gone awry. He has a son like that.

STONE: But we wrote that scene before his son was arrested, unfortunately. I didn`t want to do it.

BEHAR: But he struggled with drugs -

STONE: And I didn`t know what to do. Then we talked about possibly changing it but, no, we need it for the script point. In the movie his older son commits suicide.

BEHAR: That`s right.

STONE: You see the issue of the film is he`s an older man, gets out of jail, no one is there at the prison to meet him. His daughter, Carrie Mulligan, will not talk to him. She hates Wall Street. Doesn`t want to have anything to do with it.

BEHAR: Right. Before I go to the break, I understand you cut out Donald Trump from the movie. Are you scared now?

STONE: Yes. I`m not staying in the hotel. No, I like Donald very much. He did a great job. He`s a fun guy to have on the set.

BEHAR: Just didn`t work in the script?

STONE: No, it was late in the movie. It became distracting. You heard the last ten minutes of the movie, want to move it and here`s Donald in the middle of the picture. He`s larger than life, frankly. And if you think about it, I wanted to get to the resolution of the movie. I should have put him in earlier.

BEHAR: You should have put him in earlier.


BEHAR: Well, next movie.

STONE: He`s in the deleted scenes.

BEHAR: OK don`t go anywhere -- stay right there. We`ll be back with more from Oliver Stone in just a minute. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What`s the matter Jake, you do you like her?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I never talk about money as a she.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She lies in bed at night with you, looking at you.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You don`t realize how hilarious Oliver is, you know.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oliver Stone, so famous it isn`t even real. I was shocked that he was real and I loved him.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He is a loving, caring, intelligent and sensitive director.


BEHAR: That was some of the cast of Oliver Stone`s new movie sharing their love for the man next to me. Ah, that`s sweet. I have twitter questions. You know what twitter is, right?


BEHAR: Do you tweet?


BEHAR: You don`t tweet. OK so people want to know certain things. Would you do a comedy or does he consider "W" a comedy?


STONE: Listen, there was funny stuff if "W." You said that. And I did "Natural Born Killers." that was funny. That was dark.

BEHAR: That was funny, yes that good.

STONE: "Black Humor."

BEHAR: Yes, you`ve done some comedy.

STONE: "U-Turn" has a lot of laughs. I love comedy. Actually Rodney who worked in Natural Borne Killers, wanted me, he asked me to direct several comedies with him.

BEHAR: Uh huh.

STONE: We were looking for the right material when unfortunately Rodney died.

BEHAR: Yes, he died. You know people do say, I`m one of them, that you were a little easy on "W" in that movie.

STONE: I don`t think so.

BEHAR: You made him look like a good old boy, that he`s sort of like a puppet.

STONE: Well he is like a puppet.

BEHAR: He`s a very good puppet. But he had more to do with it than Dick Cheney pulling the strings.

STONE: It would be hard to believe. I don`t think he had that intellect. I think he is what he is in the movie and went along. As long as Cheney didn`t take too much sun away from it. I think the movie makes a valid point that that is a mindset of that man who became president. We learn from his youth what he was like and see him running against his father.


STONE: I think that`s enough. Think about the movie in terms of later in time when people -- look at Palin now. I mean, that`s -- we elect that, that`s the price we pay.

BEHAR: They always say he was fun to have a beer with.

STONE: Bush is likable.

BEHAR: Why do you want to have a beer with the president?

STONE: Fifty percent of people who voted for him -- that`s the problem with popular reality show stuff. Everybody wants to be president now.

BEHAR: Yes. What film of yours did you most want to succeed?

STONE: "Alexander."

BEHAR: Oh. Did it?

STONE: Yes, it was an epic. No, it broke even commercially, but no.

BEHAR: Brad Pitt?

STONE: No, that was "Troy." It was Colin Ferrell.

BEHAR: Oh that`s "Troy."

STONE: Two thousand four.

BEHAR: Oh yes.

STONE: There`s another version I want you to see, 2007. It`s the best version. It`s the third version I did. And I went back two years later, three years later, and it`s 3 hours and 45 minutes with an intermission. I know you have time to watch it.

BEHAR: I don`t. But for you I`ll do it.

STONE: See a the lot of boys in skirts.

BEHAR: OK. I like that. I like that. One more question then I`ve got to go. How to you feel about the fact the original "Wall Street" movie plays on a loop at the New York Stock Exchange. Did you know that?

STONE: I don`t think -- nobody`s going to pay attention. It`s like, you know, it`s A.D.D. That`s great. I love the fact the first movie has grown into a bit of an icon. Yes.

BEHAR: It`s wonderful. The whole thing is fabulous. And I`m happy you`re successful at everything you do Oliver.

STONE: Thank you, Joy.

BEHAR: Because you`re a lovely person.

STONE: You`re a Joy.

BEHAR: Thank you.

STONE: I hope your husband tells you that every morning.

BEHAR: I`m not married.


STONE: Fooled me.

BEHAR: "Wall Street: Money Never Sleeps" is in theaters Friday. Good night, everybody. Great to have you.