Return to Transcripts main page
Jane Velez-Mitchell
Indiana Motorcyclist Speeding Down Highway; Woman Attacked by Handyman; Duct Tape Debate Reignited in Casey Anthony Case
Aired September 30, 2010 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST (voice-over): Tonight, handyman horror. A woman viciously attacked by a day laborer inside her home. She was hit in the head with a hammer and left to die in a pool of her own blood. Tonight the hunt is on for this mystery monster. Is he also connected to a child rape?
And what killed Caylee Anthony? Tonight`s shocking new developments in the Casey Anthony case. Was the duct tape found on Caylee`s mouth actually the murder weapon? Or was that tape there for a completely different reason?
Also, outrage on campus. A hidden sex tape leads to suicide. Tonight, a college freshman secretly videotaped having sex in his dorm room. Now he`s dead. He jumped off a bridge. Was this young man targeted because he was gay?
Plus, a bizarre ruling in the Anna Nicole Smith case. A judge has thrown out most of the charges. Apparently lawyers couldn`t prove Anna Nicole was addicted to drugs? Are you kidding me? She was prescribed 1,500 pills in a single month. If she`s not an addict, who is?
ISSUES starts now.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: We have got a wild motorcycle chase going on right now in Indiana. We`re going to bring it to you momentarily. You will not believe it, a guy going at breakneck speed on his motorcycle with no helmet. Take a look at this.
Now, my understanding is that this began with a routine traffic stop. Authorities don`t even know why the heck he is on this high-speed chase because they don`t think that he really did anything bad. It was going so fast, look -- oh, there he is. He`s running for it right now. As you see, he wasn`t wearing a helmet. It`s possible that they just wanted to pull him over because he didn`t have a helmet.
But he might know that he is responsible for something else and that once they find him, well, then it`s another matter. You see the cops tackling him there in the trees.
An unbelievable high-speed chase through rural areas of Indiana. He was going -- he had to have been going -- it`s just a guess, but well over 100 miles an hour, passing big rigs like they were standing still. Unbelievable story. As you see right there, they got this guy.
I don`t understand, Mike Brooks, why anybody runs, because they always get them 100 percent of the time.
MIKE BROOKS, HLN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Jane, we see it all the time on HLN, these chases during the day, and sometimes in prime-time like this one here. You can`t escape that eye in the sky.
But this guy, no helmet on, on one of these I call them, because I have a Harley-Davidson, co I call these my crotch rockets. Going down the interstate highway the wrong way.
And you saw him. He slowed down a little bit, Jane, before he bailed off the bike. You know, it almost looked like the officer was just going to try to just do a little tap -- you can`t really do a pit maneuver on a motorcycle, but he came close to it. Then he took off on foot. But you can`t escape that eye in the sky, Jane. And the officer was right on his heels and had him down in that heavy brush right off the interstate. So good work by the police.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, we see so many of these. Great work by the police. We see so many of these chases, and the fact is that they`re dangerous enough in a car. But on a motorcycle?
Take a look at this guy. They`re bringing him out now. So it`s amazing that nobody was hurt. It`s amazing that he wasn`t hurt, going at the wild speed that he was going at on this motorcycle with no helmet, dodging in and out of these huge big rigs that are on this freeway.
And look, it seems like the cops are having a hard time getting over that fence, and he`s giving them -- is he giving them a hard time? No, he`s not. I guess it seemed like that just getting him over the fence.
BROOKS: It`s kind of -- it`s hard to get somebody who`s handcuffed over the fence. That`s a little wobbly. It`s not a real good support. But they got him. Got him over the guardrail, and looks like you`ve got local and the highway patrol, Indiana state police.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes.
BROOKS: So they`re going to search him and take him into custody.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: It was just wild when he was going at the rate he was going. Mike Brooks, I would have to say he was going over 100 miles an hour.
BROOKS: Well over 100 miles an hour, Jane. As Vinnie was finishing up, I was watching the chase, and he was doing well over 100 miles an hour. You know, a lot of times they -- these little crotch rockets like this can outrun the police cars. But one thing they can`t outrun, the helicopter.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, well, they`re more maneuverable.
BROOKS: Oh, yes.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I mean, a lot of times the cars get caught because they`re not as maneuverable. But a little motorcycle like that? Wow, you can weave in and out of traffic.
But still you can run, but you cannot hide. All people involved in high-speed chases will be caught. There is absolutely no reason to run, because they`ll get you. And they got this guy.
BROOKS: And they are dangerous, Jane. They are dangerous. They`re dangerous to the people, to the innocent bystanders who are driving in the vehicles. They`re dangerous to the police officers, and because you`re driving, basically, a weapon. And so far this year, Jane, there have been a number. I think two officers that have been killed during pursuits in the United States. So this is dangerous stuff. People think it`s just fun and games, but it`s not.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: It`s absolutely not. And this guy, again, wasn`t wearing a helmet. That might have been the reason why cops tried to pull him over. But we`re going to find out if he`s wanted for something far more serious.
Why did he run? The cops said there was no reason. They weren`t pulling him over for anything serious. So maybe he has some kind of rap sheet. Maybe he`s on parole and he`s violated parole. We`ll find out for you later in this show. We`ll bring you the information.
All right. Our other big story tonight, breaking news in the war with on women. A hunt on for a violent predator who used a hammer to beat a 52- year-old woman nearly to death. Police discovered this sicko may also be a child rapist. The hammer attack happened back in July inside the woman`s home.
Now, this is video, surveillance video, of the suspect and the victim together inside a Home Depot in Hempstead, New York, which is on Long Island. That`s where the two first met. Right there.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DET. LT. RAY COTE, NASSAU COUNTY POLICE: Before she gets in -- before she gets in the door, she encounters a young man who asked her, do you need any work done around your house? And coincidentally, she did, because she needed this leak fixed.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. So the victim allegedly hires the man on the spot and drives him back to her home. He works on her leaky toilet for about half hour and says, "I`m all done."
Then she complains, "Hey, you haven`t fixed that leak." The man completely snaps.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COTE: She says, "What`s going on?" And with that, inexplicably, he becomes enraged and starts banging her over the head with a hammer repeatedly. It was quite a gruesome scene.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, police collected the suspect`s DNA from the home. Guess what? It matches DNA collected from a child rape last year in Laredo, Texas. The victim in that case? Just 2 years old. The investigation had hit a dead end until now.
We need to get this psycho off the streets before he strikes again. You can call me: 1-877-JVM-SAYS.
Straight out to my fantastic expert panel but first to Mona Rivera, reporter for 1010 WINS.
Mona, what is the very latest on this manhunt?
MONA RIVERA, REPORTER, 1010 WINS (via phone): Well, I just spoke with the commander of the investigation into this hammer attack. You saw on this videotape Detective Lieutenant Gray Cote (ph).
And he released this videotape on Tuesday. And he told me that, since then, since the release of this video surveillance tape on Tuesday, he has gotten a numerous amount of calls but still no clues as to where the suspect is.
This guy is still on the loose. He`s known as Marvin. He`s an immigrant from Honduras. He`s been working as a day laborer, and he`s suspected in this brutal hammer attack here on Long Island in July.
He approached this woman, shopping at a Home Depot in Hempstead. She hired him to fix her toilet. And when she brought him back to her home, he attacked her with a hammer, police say, beating her over her head with -- and he left her brain damaged.
Now, the DNA from that hammer attack was submitted to the national data bank, and that is how authorities got to the link on this 2-year-old attack in Texas. And police are telling me that they believe this guy is still here on Long Island, in the Hempstead area, that he was seen as recently as Saturday. And they`re hoping that all the attention on this case will lead to his arrest.
Now, Stacey Honowitz, this guy is distinctive. He walks with a limp. You see him right there. He`s got dark hair. They say he`s from Honduras. He has an injured left hand that he covers up with a glove. And he may very well be transient, because he apparently didn`t even have a car. Does that make him harder to find?
STACEY HONOWITZ, FLORIDA PROSECUTOR`S OFFICE: I think this guy is -- it`s like finding a needle in the haystack, unfortunately. I mean, the one good thing is when they do get him they`ll have him on the sexual assault in the Texas case.
But it`s like everything else, everybody keeps watching. Everybody keeps seeing the videotape. The more people that see it, the easier it is to pinpoint him. But certainly having -- I mean, having these other issues -- the limp, you know, certain things that -- characteristics that do stand out -- could certainly help.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Here`s my big issue. Sadly, we all have to be alert to the danger of strangers. This is a cautionary tale. I certainly do not want to blame the victim. She`s a trusting soul who`s just trying to take care of business.
Let`s face it: it`s pretty common to see day laborers looking for work outside home improvement stores. The victim thought this guy seemed trustworthy. She allowed him into her car, into her home.
Brian Russell, we`re taught to trust our gut, but trusting your gut might have been what got this woman into trouble in the first place, right?
BRIAN RUSSELL, FORENSIC PSYCHOLOGIST: Yes. I`m with you, Jane. You don`t ever want to blame the victim. It`s nobody`s fault but the guy who did it. But you do want to take a lesson away. If it`s the only good that can come from a story like this.
And the lesson is, you just can`t be too careful with strangers, especially strangers that are trying to get into your place for some reason. It`s just -- even if that would be an expedient way to get some help, to thing to do is to get some references and to take a little bit more time and really screen people.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. Or call Roter-Rooter or whatever. Call a plumber out of the phone book, you know.
RUSSELL: Sure.
BROOKS: A licensed plumber.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. Mike Brooks, when they checked this guy on the DNA database, they found out that he was also wanted in a horrific rape of a 2-year-old. To me, this is why this national database of DNA is so absolutely crucial to solving crime.
BROOKS: It is. It is. It`s called CODA, the combined DNA index system, Jane, and it worked this time. You know, even in a small department like Laredo, I`m glad that they put the DNA that they had from the unsolved crime in there. And when they cross-reference it, boom, they came up with a hit.
And I think they will find this guy. Nassau County police, they do a great job. And there are certain places -- this guy has got to make -- this guy`s got to live, got to make some money. So most likely, he -- again, as the lieutenant said -- they`ll find him.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. And he`s got a limp. Watch out for him.
Fantastic guests, thank you so much.
Coming up, jaw-dropping new pictures of Anna Nicole Smith and her psychiatrist. Yes, they`re in a bathtub together. Is this what they call a doctor/patient relationship? You won`t believe it.
Plus, what killed Caylee Anthony? Shocking new details emerge from the Casey Anthony case. It`s all about the duct tape tonight, and we`re taking your calls on the shocking new developments: 1-877-JVM-SAYS.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CASEY ANTHONY, MURDER SUSPECT: Come on!
CINDY ANTHONY, CASEY`S MOM: Casey, hold on, sweetheart.
CASEY ANTHONY: Nobody`s letting me speak. You want me to talk, and...
CINDY ANTHONY: All right. I`ll listen.
CASEY ANTHONY: Give me three seconds to say something. I`m not in control.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: It`s the battle of the duct tape. It all boils down to this moment. Was her mother`s face the last thing little Caylee saw in the final moments of her life? Did Casey Anthony lean over little Caylee and put duct tape over her mouth to suffocate her? The prosecution says yes.
The defense is desperately trying to get that image out of our minds. At the very center of this debate, Dr. Jan Garavaglia, who -- Dr. G, that`s what they call her. I can`t pronounce it. They`ve got a phonetic spelling up here that`s more complicated than the original.
Dr. G conducted Caylee`s autopsy and is the star of her own TV show, "Dr. G, Medical Examiner." It premieres October 4 at 9 p.m. on Discovery Health. Check this out.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. JAN GARAVAGLIA, MEDICAL EXAMINER: He hasn`t been feeling well for the past week, and now he`s dead. What is going on?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Dr. G, you just saw her right there, she was grilled by the defense this week.
So has Casey, who faces the death penalty if convicted, come up with a lifesaving new story line? Her defense dream team now says the renowned medical examiner handed them a gift.
Straight out to Jayne Weintraub.
Jayne, what is the significance of the duct tape? If it wasn`t put over Caylee`s mouth, what could that do to help the defense?
JAYNE WEINTRAUB, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, it further the position that there is no cause of death. We still don`t know why it`s deemed a homicide because, without a cause of death or a manner of death, how did she die? They need to prove with specificity in order to prove up you their case and get the death penalty.
And they`re not going to be able to do it. The difference is, the medical examiner said that the duct tape was affixed to the lower part of the skull. Lower could be here or here. Remember, there`s no skin whatsoever. What does that mean? If there`s no skin and the skin decomposed and left the body, then imagine that the duct tape is not going to be exactly in the same place either.
So the prosecution is taking a huge leap in assuming that the lower part of the skull would have meant originally it was here. They`re guessing. They`re grabbing at straws. That`s not a way to go after a first-degree murder conviction.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I don`t know about that. The debate over exactly where the duct tape was found and whether it was the weapon used to kill little Caylee has reignited. And it all begins with Roy Kronk. Remember the meter reader?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROY KRONK, FOUND CAYLEE`S BODY: On Thursday, December 11, in the course of my duties as a county employee, I discovered and reported to my management and appropriate authorities the remains of a human body located in the wooded area close to the suburban drive in East Orange County.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK. Roy Kronk`s attorney says Roy is sure the tape was on the skull and over the mouth when he discovered the remains. But the defense is saying the tape was not adhered to any part of this child, just some of her hair.
Now, Dr. G says it was clearly placed prior to decomposition -- decomposition over the lower skull, but that there was no visible soft tissue on that tape.
So, Dr. Bill Manion, you`re the forensic pathologist and assistant medical examiner, is it possible the tape originally was over Caylee`s mouth but, because the remains were down there, buried possibly for months, under the water, that all the tissue is decomposed, and it moved a little bit?
DR. BILL MANION, FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST: To me, it`s hard to believe that there wouldn`t be some trace evidence, some he epithelial cells on that adherent part of the tape.
The other thing I remember from the case is that her body was apparently decomposing before it was disposed of. As a body decomposes, there could be a purging, and fluids could come out of the mouth. And someone may have panicked and put tape over the mouth to keep the body from purging. So that to me is another possibility.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Levi Page, you`ve been watching this so much and blogging about it. Do you buy this notion that there`s any other reason why that tape would be even near her skull, other than to wrap the child`s mouth?
LEVI PAGE, CRIME BLOGGER: No, Jane, I don`t. I think there`s no logical explanation to say that the tape was put on the mouth on this child postmortem after she died.
And that heart-shaped sticker that was on the tape is just so bratty and psychopathic. It just matches the character of Casey Anthony. She killed her daughter, first-degree murder. That`s what the evidence shows, and she put that heart-shaped sticker on there to show that she thought that Caylee was a doll. She was done with her. She killed her.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I know Jayne Weintraub is shaking her head. We`re going to get into this on the other side. Right on the other side. Stay right where you are. More on the duct tape. It`s an interesting defense. Will it stick?
And a college freshman secretly videotaped having sex with another man. Now he`s dead. Is his roommate responsible for his suicide?
Plus, another bombshell picture of Anna Nicole Smith. We got it.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CASEY ANTHONY, MURDER SUSPECT: Come on!
CINDY ANTHONY, CASEY`S MOM: Casey, hold on, sweetheart.
CASEY ANTHONY: Nobody`s letting me speak. You want me to talk, and...
CINDY ANTHONY: All right. I`ll listen.
CASEY ANTHONY: Give me three seconds to say something. I`m not in control.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: But now the defense team for Casey Anthony is talking, and we`re back talking about the duct tape debate in the Casey Anthony case. Was it placed over Caylee`s mouth, and was it the weapon used to kill little Caylee?
We just heard Levi Page says it`s common sense that obviously the duct tape that`s near the jaw was used to cover her mouth. Jayne Weintraub, you were shaking your head.
WEINTRAUB: And I was, because two things. One, the only person -- let`s remember what the evidence is and not what the flap is. The evidence is that the duct tape was not over her mouth. And, No. 2, there was no skin on it, which means there was -- it was not affixed to the skin before the skin decomposed.
But more importantly, remember in the case who had anything to do with duct tape? Roy Kronk.
PAGE: No. The Anthonys.
HONOWITZ: But he didn`t have duct tape in his house. The duct tape came from their house.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Let`s hear...
PAGE: But let`s remember, the flyers -- the flyers that were used to hang missing Caylee flyers, the duct tape that was used was matched to the duct tape that was over her mouth.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK.
WEINTRAUB: No, that`s not true.
PAGE: It is.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`ve got to go to Stacey Honowitz. Stacey Honowitz, former prosecutor.
PAGE: It it`s true. It`s the same brand.
WEINTRAUB: Same brand doesn`t mean it`s the same tape.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: If she was in the ground for months, if cops are right and she was in the ground or underwater from summer to Christmas, then obviously, the duct tape is going to move.
HONOWITZ: Jane, I can guarantee...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Go ahead.
HONOWITZ: I can guarantee you that in the deposition you got a little piece of the action today when Jose Baez said, she handed us a gem. I can guarantee you that when she takes that stand or even in deposition and a prosecutor says to her, "Isn`t it common sense or isn`t it true, not just common sense, but isn`t it scientifically true that, if this child was in the ground, that the duct tape could have moved? We don`t know how far off it was from the mouth. We don`t know what the movement was. We don`t know what kind of cells were there." So certainly, these are questions that a prosecutor is prepared to go forward with in court.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Rose, South Carolina, your question or thought, ma`am.
CALLER: Yes. I`ve been watching since the beginning, and I think Cindy and Casey had a big fight, where Cindy thought that Casey wasn`t being a good mother. So she took Casey to spite her mother, and the baby, Caylee, kept getting in her way. And she kept giving her chloroform. And I think she overdosed on it and Casey opened the trunk one day and...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK. Let me get (UNINTELLIGIBLE) in, because you raise a good point. Dr. Bill Manion, forensic pathologist, it -- there`s chloroform evidence here. They found a syringe inside a bottle that had traces of chloroform. Couldn`t the defense in some way try to point to, well, it was accidental? It was accidental?
MANION: Absolutely. Absolutely. Yes. Some -- it`s been known that some parents, some babysitters, will use chloroform to anesthetize a child and keep them sleeping for hours while they either go out or goof off or do something.
I also want to emphasize, remember Dr. G hasn`t said that this child died from the tape across her mouth. Dr. G has said the death is from unknown origin. So to me, this is a big prosecution theory, but I don`t see Dr. G buying into it yet.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right.
MANION: And the chloroform defense is certainly viable.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Fabulous panel, thank you so much. We`re going to stay on top of that one obviously.
Coming up, a college freshman videotaped having sex with another man.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GREG BLIMLING, VP STUDENT AFFAIRS, RUTGERS UNIVERSITY: I think one of the things that has shocked people so much is how this allegation has really breached that trust that students develop among one another when they live together. So the university community has been shocked and we`re really saddened by what happened.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight -- breaking news. Prosecutors considering more charges in the shocking suicide of a Rutgers University student. We are getting this information just in -- just in as we speak. They are considering whether to bring bias charges in this case.
This poor young man, 18-year-old, star music student Tyler Clementi jumped to his death off of the George Washington Bridge. It`s believed he was distraught after his roommate allegedly set up a live web cast showing Clementi in a sexual encounter with another man.
Roommate Dharun Ravi and fellow Rutgers student Molly Wei are both charged with invading Clementi`s privacy and prosecutors are thinking of filing additional charges. And now we`re learning that when Clementi found out what his roommate had done, he was very upset. He contacted the dorm`s resident adviser. Other Rutgers students are shocked and disgusted over this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think it`s wrong that they would put that online or video it at all.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: To hear technology -- you know, to see how far you can go with technology and how easy it is to access that and stream it to a large amount of people, it`s unbelievable and it`s also pathetic.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Sadly, when Clementi complained about what had happened, he says he was disturbed to learn that his roommate was getting the pity for having to live with a gay man, not him for allegedly being spied on. Somebody believed to be Clementi wrote on a gay message board, "He was spying on me. Do they see nothing wrong with this?"
One day later, Clementi would jump off a bridge to his death.
So my question is, was this a horribly sick prank gone wrong or was this a hate crime? Taking your calls -- 1-877-JVM-SAYS.
Straight out to my fantastic expert panel, we begin with former federal prosecutor Fred Tecce. Should this be prosecuted as a hate crime, sir?
FRED TECCE, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: I`ll tell you what, Jane. It should be prosecuted as some crime. If a hate crime fits, then that`s one of the crimes that should be used.
I`ve got to tell you, when I read this story this morning, Jane, I was enraged. My heart was broken. As a prosecutor I want the New Jersey statutes. I looked at manslaughter. I looked at aggravated manslaughter, negligent homicide, trying to find one of them that would fit. So you know what? If hate crime fits then let`s use it.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. Well, you know being a teenager, it`s difficult enough. Add that to being gay and the odds can be sometimes stacked against you. Suicide is the second cause of death among college students. But gay kids are four times more likely than straight kids to commit suicides and nine out of ten gay kids report being bullied -- nine out of ten.
It`s a situation that gay columnist, Dan Savage knows all too well. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAN SAVAGE, EDITOR, "THE STRANGER": There were with no gay people in my family and no openly gay people at my school. But I was picked on because I liked musicals and I was obviously gay and some kids didn`t like that. And I did get harassed.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
V-M: Savage`s mantra, "It gets better." He now joins us via Skype. Dan thank you for joining us.
Ellen DeGeneres just coming out about this case, saying these teen suicides have to stop. Who do you think is to blame? Is it just this individual who allegedly recorded him having a sexual encounter with another man and broadcast it live? Or is it really society to blame?
SAVAGE: I think we need to find out more about what was going on for Tyler Clementi. It sounds like this was the last straw. What kind of support was he getting from his family? Was he harassed in his high school and was he in despair because he got to college and thought the harassment would stop and apparently it was going to continue.
In what faith was he raised? I don`t think someone who was -- whose privacy was violated in this way would just automatically go and jump off a bridge. There`s been lots of people who have made sex tapes that have wound up on xtube and other Web sites and very few of them commit suicide.
I believe that he reached the breaking point and this was the catalyst. I want to know how he was treated by his family, by his church, by his classmates in his high school because obviously there was more going on here than just this one incident for this young man.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I want to get back to my issue tonight: was this a hate crime? You know, it sounds like to me it could be. As the gay rights group Garden State Equality which stems from New Jersey -- Rutgers is in New Jersey -- believe it is a hate crime.
I believe this tweet allegedly sent by suspect Dharum Ravi shows that he may have been relishing in the fact that he caught Tyler with a guy. Quote, "Roommate asked for the room until midnight. I went into Molly`s room and turned on my webcam. I saw him making out with a dude. Yay." End quote.
Brian Russell, forensic psychologist, what does that tell you about the suspect`s motivation in broadcasting this interaction, this encounter, with his roommate and another man?
BRIAN RUSSELL, FORENSIC PSYCHOLOGIST: Great question, Jane. Two levels of psychology in this case. When the defendants were just watching the victim, it was for their own voyeuristic, stupid, twisted pleasure but when they -- and that was wrong because it was an invasion of his privacy. But when they kicked it up a notch to broadcasting it on the Internet that was intentionally I believe to hurt this guy by publicly humiliating him. That`s sociopathic. That`s why they belong in prison for five years.
I worry sometimes about the hate crime designation because it says to me that somehow if there is not a hate motive we should punish it less. I feel that if the crime is there we should give the max whether there`s a hate motive or not. Because if you don`t come down hard early in the lives of a sociopathic person, they they`re going to continue to find ways to victimize people until you do.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: To me, it all boils down to one question -- was this just a stupid juvenile prank, which happens sometimes in high school and even college? Or was this person who allegedly saw him roommate -- this guy you`re looking at here -- in a sexual encounter with another man and decided to broadcast it live, was he acting based on his bias toward the victim`s sexual orientation?
I think that is the key determinant as to whether or not it is a hate crime. Dan Savage, what`s your best guess on that?
SAVAGE: I don`t think it matters one way or the other. The young man is dead. But I think we can`t as a society just point the finger at these two teenagers who victimized Tyler Clementi in this way and pushed him over the edge.
I guarantee you that Tyler Clementi was not -- this was not the first time he experienced anti-gay harassment and bullying. We need to look at his entire history and hold everyone who played a role in making him so despairing and so -- feel so hopeless and unvalued that he ended his life like this.
It`s easy now to point the finger at these two kids. How was he treated in his schools? How was he treated by his counselors? How was he treated by his parents? How was he treated in the churches that he was tied to as a young man if indeed his family was religious?
We need answers to all of those questions because our entire society is culpable, not just these two kids.
(CROSSTALK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Anita, Alabama, your question or thought, ma`am. Anita, Alabama
ANITA, ALABAMA (via telephone): yes. I was wondering if the jerk that filmed Tyler, being his roommate, he should have known his state of mind somewhat. And I wonder if that guy could be charged with either cyber-bullying or maybe even assisting a suicide?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Fred Tecce, he is charged with invasion of privacy and they`re considering now additional charges including bias. I understand that he hypothetically could get five years in prison.
TECCE: He could, Jane. But, unfortunately, for invasion of privacy crimes it`s almost invariably a misdemeanor -- not a misdemeanor but invariably a probation case. You know, you mentioned a point earlier about was this a prank gone wrong? This is a perfectly good example.
You know, it`s one thing when we were kids if we put a sign on the back of somebody if we wanted to be mean that said you`re fat, we don`t like you for some reason. But you when you start putting it, when you stream it live on the Internet, the damage that you can do is so much worse.
These tools that kids have, the technology, has now made what was a prank quite frankly a bias crime, quite frankly -- I disagree with your other viewer, I think it was reasonably foreseeable that it led to the suicide of this poor sweet young man and it has to stop.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: It does have to stop and unfortunately I feel like we`re covering these stories more and more lately, and I wonder why.
I want to have all of you back. We`re going to stay on top of this. We`re out of time.
SAVAGE: I`ll tell you why.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: But come back Dan. Come back, rest of the panel.
Coming up, racy new pictures of Anna Nicole Smith; she`s in a bathtub naked, hugging another woman. But this isn`t her lover. This is her psychiatrist.
We`re taking your call on this, 1-877-JVM-SAYS.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is this a mushroom trip?
ANNA NICOLE SMITH, ACTRESS: Huh?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is this a mushroom trip?
SMITH: Huh?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is this a mushroom trip?
SMITH: Maybe.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight -- from glamorous playboy playmate to incoherent mess. On her deathbed, a hazy Anna Nicole Smith was in such bad shape, she was -- I hate to even have to say this -- defecating in her bed. That`s right, defecating in her bed and sipping liquid drugs out of a baby bottle.
Tonight, bombshell never-before-seen photos are released in court as evidence: Anna Nicole in a naked embrace in the tub with her psychiatrist, Christine Eroshevich. The shrink is now on trial for allegedly feeding the model drugs. What could these bizarre images mean for the case? That is bizarre.
Plus, truly shocking new developments: the judge tosses out two felony charges against Anna Nicole`s former companion Howard K. Stern saying the prosecution failed to prove the "Playboy" model was, in fact, an addict. What? If Anna Nicole Smith wasn`t an addict, who the heck is?
We all remember this disturbing video.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She thinks she did.
ANNA NICOLE SMITH, ACTRESS: I didn`t.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is this a mushroom trip?
SMITH: Huh?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is this a mushroom trip?
SMITH: Huh?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is this a mushroom trip?
SMITH: Maybe.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And that`s not the only time the busty blonde siren was caught on tape looking higher than a kite. Check out this bizarre brand new video which shows an out of it Anna Nicole again naked in the tub manically splashing water on her newborn baby.
She awkwardly balances the tiny little girl between her breasts.
Straight out to my fantastic expert panel, we have to begin with CNN producer Alan Duke. Alan the shocking photos of Anna Nicole in the tub with her psychiatrist, where do they come from? What do they mean to the case?
ALAN DUKE, CNN PRODUCER: Well, the prosecution showed them hoping to suggest or convince the jury that Dr. Eroshevich had an unhealthy relationship with Anna Nicole, that she crossed ethical boundaries, had an expert witness to talk about that --
VELEZ-MITCHELL: You think?
DUKE: Well, but what -- the -- the defense`s position on that is that she was in the tub to cheer her up. And it was not alleged that they had a sexual relationship. Everybody -- all the witnesses throughout said that they felt that the Dr. Eroshevich cared about Anna Nicole and would do anything for her.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Apparently.
DUKE: And that she did have a very personal relationship with her.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, yes she`s giving her a foot rub in one of the photos I understand that part that`s etched out. Look, I -- I don`t care what two people -- consenting adults do in a tub, but when one is your psychiatrist, I mean, give me a break.
Jennifer Giminez, former house manager of VH1 "Sober House" is that how an addict is going to learn boundaries and sober behavior?
JENNIFER GIMINEZ, FORMER STAR HV1`S SOBER HOUSE: No, absolutely not. That is not how an addict is going to have boundaries or know boundaries. You know and to say that this girl is -- is not addicted, like she treat -- she checked herself into treatment. And therefore, she was admitting that she had a problem.
I mean, the doctor -- if you`re like you having Dr. Drew or Dr. Sophie come into my bathtub like just because I was having a bad day. I mean, come on. That`s disgusting. I mean, no offense, but --
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I mean, it`s -- it`s bizarre. I can`t imagine it. I`ve seen a psychiatrist in my lifetime. Anybody on this panel hasn`t been to a shrink once in their life? Please, raise your hand. Hello?
GIMINEZ: All the time.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let me see, everybody, nobody is. Ok. Nobody is raising their hand.
GIMINEZ: I`ve been there a million times.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Ok. So you know, I think it`s very healthy to get treatment. But I can`t imagine me and my psychiatrist in the tub together. Doctor Larry Seidlin?
GIMINEZ: Oh my God it would be awful.
JUDGE LARRY SEIDLIN, PRESIDED OVER ANNA NICOLE BODY CUSTODY HEARING: Well, Jane, I heard of home visits --
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Judge Seidlin.
SEIDLIN: -- I heard of home visits by a doctor but I never heard of such intimacy. And Anna was a known addict. She checked herself into the Betty Ford clinic. You didn`t have to be Sherlock Holmes to know that she has a drug problem.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, you know, I`ve got to get back to Alan Duke on this. Was she in fact in treatment ever? Did she ever check herself into rehab?
DUKE: She was at the Betty Ford Clinic for dependency to Vicodin, is our understanding. Not a whole lot was said about that in the trial. The judge really didn`t allow them to get much into it. There was never a finding that she was a drug addict under California law, the definition.
And by the way I might add that that clown video, the jury never saw that.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: What? How is that possible?
DUKE: No.
Well, because there`s a back story to it. And I could get into it, but it`s -- it was at a kid`s birthday party and the judge didn`t allow it. He allowed it to be shown during the preliminary hearing at the very end, but he was the one who made the decision then and said he didn`t think it made a difference.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: So in other words, overly prejudicial? Judge Seidlin?
SEIDLIN: Well, the judge in this case has been very kind to the three defendants, and -- and the state attorney is having a tough time in this case. They`ve got a big mountain to climb. But I was glad that the judge only threw out two charges. Stern is still facing nine felonies and the two doctors are facing six felonies each.
And the judge announces in court that he has faith in the jury system and he`ll let the jury decide their guilt or innocence next week.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, here is my big issue tonight: only Anna Nicole to blame. At the end of the day, who is really responsible for this blonde bombshell`s tragic death? I mean, posing nude in the tub with your patient? That`s surely unethical, but is it illegal?
Anna Nicole Smith was an adult and I believe unless they can prove that she was actually forced, physically forced, to take these drugs by the defendants, there is a good chance that they`re going to get off.
Hope in Texas, your question or thought.
HOPE, TEXAS (via telephone): Hi, Jane. How are you?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hi, fine, thanks.
HOPE: Good. You know, looking at these pictures, it reminds me of dope pushers on the street in that they will trade sex for drugs, you know? And I think that Anna Nicole is an addict. There`s no doubt about it in my mind. And I`m surprised that the judge seeing these pictures and other film of Anna Nicole would ever come up with a different theory other than that. Obviously --
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, you know Jennifer Giminez, the caller makes an excellent point. Anna Nicole Smith was known to flirt her way into situations when she wanted something done. It happened over and over again in the Bahamas with officials where -- where she was caught behind closed doors with them and then they would rule in her favor on something, Jennifer.
GIMINEZ: Yes, you know, this is a girl who`s far gone before her death. She was gone. There was no talking to an Anna Nicole Smith. You`re talking to the disease and a drug addict. And I just think that this is a typical case of the co-dependent assisting and enabling another drug addict --
(CROSSTALK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: On another shot --
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: How do you feel as a New Yorker that they`re allegedly taking pigeons from big cities and shooting them in Pennsylvania?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t think that`s a good idea. Why?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: That`s a good question. Why? They`re not eating them apparently.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right. Why, why shoot them? You share the planet with other animals.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Just one reaction to an upcoming pigeon shoot in Pennsylvania this Sunday. In tonight`s "Animal Case Files", protests and legal battles erupt over pigeon shoots in Pennsylvania. The Humane Society of the United States says many birds released from traps with mechanical launches are not killed instantly but flap around wounded and suffering, and there`s one of them.
The Humane Society also claims many pigeons are snatched from big cities like New York, the pigeon capital of the world. Some Pennsylvania lawmakers now want to outlaw these shoots. I say yes, the sooner the better. Go to pashame.com, that`s pashame.com and check it out.
That`s tonight`s "Animal Case Files".
Also tonight, shocking new photos released of Anna Nicole Smith naked in the tub hugging her doctor, the very same doctor who`s trial for supplying the "Playboy" model with the drugs that killed her.
What do these bizarre sexy photos -- there they are -- mean for this case.
Jennifer Giminez, former house manager of VH1`s "Sober House". We just heard from our producer that Anna Nicole Smith had been in rehab at the Betty Ford Clinic. Now as a recovering alcoholic and you as a recovering addict, we both know, once an addict always an addict. So how come the prosecution can`t seem to prove that she`s an addict?
GIMINEZ: I don`t know. I mean I`m really -- I`m shocked. If these people -- three people get acquitted, then we`re sending the wrong message out. They`re sending the wrong message out. They`ll think that it`s ok to pill seek and prescription seek. And you know, I can go get medication written up for me by any doctor of different names. It`s appalling to me.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, look, an autopsy on Anna Nicole`s body showed she had more than ten different drugs in her system. Anna`s boyfriend and two personal doctors are accused of feeding Anna`s addiction by keeping the drugs flowing, getting prescriptions for Anna filed under a slew of fake names.
But the defense argues, you know, Anna Nicole was not an addict, she just suffered from chronic pain from rib injuries in childbirth. I have to go back to Jennifer Giminez. You know they`re not exclusive, you can be suffering emotional and physical pain and be an addict.
GIMINEZ: Absolutely. You know, I`m just -- I`m just shocked. I really am shocked. And I`m shocked that these people are getting away with it, and you know, like I said earlier, this is the simple -- another case of a co dependent assisting and enabling a person in their disease to their death. And it`s the --
(CROSSTALK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Judge Seidlin, the distinction is she may be an addict but she`s an adult and ultimately isn`t she responsible for her behavior?
SEIDLIN: She`s responsible for her own actions but people around her have a fiduciary relationship. The doctors and her attorney/boyfriend also have a high standard of care. And it`s very tough now to prove this case to the jury, to prove it on behalf of the state attorney. Because the defense says, she`s in pain, and I want these drugs. I want these prescription drugs.
But it`s way beyond that. It was duffle bags of drugs being brought into a hospital room where Anna Nicole was trying to get off of drugs.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, look, nobody`s been convicted of anything. And we`re getting down to the wire with closing arguments coming up. We`re going to bring you all of that here on ISSUES.
END
