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Nancy Grace
Van Der Sloot in Jail Break Attempt?
Aired October 01, 2010 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight in the disappearance of Alabama beauty Natalee Holloway, missing from her high school senior trip, Aruba. Aruban police refuse to make a case against judge`s son Joran Van Der Sloot, even after he admits he hid the body. Van Der Sloot kill again. Another girl meets him at a resort casino, found bloody, beaten, neck broken, partially clothed on his hotel room floor. Spine-chilling video of Van Der Sloot with 21-year-old Stephany just before she`s found dead. Bloody clothes from the murder found with Van Der Sloot on the run. After beating her to a pulp, he kicks back with coffee and Danish inches from the dead body, blood drenching the crime scene, the floor, the bathroom, the hallway.
Bombshell tonight. Immediately after Natalee`s mother, Beth Holloway, confronts Van Der Sloot there behind bars in a Peruvian jailhouse, Van Der Sloot nuts (ph) up (ph), violently assaulting a prison guard and trying to escape. And tonight, is Van Der Sloot getting special treatment behind bars? Reports Van Der Sloot pays for special gourmet meals, conjugal visits with women, sporting designer clothes, even paying other inmates to keep his cell clean and tidy up.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did Joran Van Der Sloot try to escape from a Peruvian jail?
GRACE: Not so fast, Van Der Sloot!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Reports say he allegedly made an attempt after attacking a prison guard.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "I didn`t want to do it."
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "Joran is sick in his head."
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m concerned he will escape.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Meanwhile, another report says Van Der Sloot is allegedly using $50,000 he got from a Dutch TV interview to pay for special privileges in prison.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We`re talking about a guy who is totally cold- blooded, totally narcissistic and totally un-empathetic.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "I was explaining to her that five years ago, I was accused in the case of a missing girl."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Van Der Sloot`s mother, Anita, says he`s mentally ill.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "All of a sudden, she hit me."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She says her son was supposed to be committed to psych hospital but fled instead to Peru.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "Then I threw her to the floor, but she was still breathing. So I took the shirt I was still wearing and put it on her face, pressing. I can`t remember how much time, but she stopped breathing, and I think that`s how I killed her.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Van Der Sloot`s attorney says he`s being moved into general population.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And tonight, to South Carolina, a 3-year-old little girl found alone, crying near an empty parking lot 3:30 AM. Where`s Mommy? Police say Mommy`s out dancing. Well, Mommy, I`m sure you could bust a move to little transistor radio behind bars!
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A 3-year-old child.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This little girl comes outside, like 2 or 3.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: At 3:30 in the morning.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Left home alone while Mom parties?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And she was just upset.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police say 27-year-old Ashley Rivers left her 3- year-old daughter home alone so that she could go out dancing.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Twenty-seven-year-old Ashley Rivers says she`s a good mother.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why would you leave your 3-year-old at home alone to go to a club?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That`s a question some people can`t answer.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are you OK? She shakes her head no.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: According to authorities, Rivers tried to sneak in the back door of her home after a night out at a local club.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Rivers says her 3-year-old was asleep in her bed when she left to go to the bar. She didn`t expect her daughter to wake up in the middle of the night.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Being that she is smart little girl like she is, you know, she got up, got on her little chair, unlocked the door, looking for me.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Rivers told police that the toddler`s father was watching her, but the police say that was a lie.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Like I said, it was bad judgment. It`s something that I should have thought about before I did it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Bombshell tonight. Immediately after Beth Holloway, Natalee Holloway`s mother, confronts Joran Van Der Sloot behind prison walls there in Peru, Van Der Sloot nuts up, allegedly becoming violent, trying to assault a prison guard and then escape.
And tonight, is Van Der Sloot getting special treatment behind bars, paying for gourmet meals, conjugal visits, sporting designer clothes and actually paying other inmates to keep his cell clean and tidy up?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Van Der Sloot allegedly attacked a guard and tried to escape.
GRACE: I was so worried that he was going to get good time for cooperating and be out in seven years. I should have known Van Der Sloot would screw it up for himself.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That`s on the heels of another report saying Joran Van Der Sloot is allegedly living in luxury in a Peruvian prison.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "I was confused and just wanted it to end."
GRACE: Oh, boo-hoo!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "He should have gone for treatment in a closed clinic. He already needed psychiatric help back then."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "So I took my shirt and put it on her face, pressing hard until I killed Stephany."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think the psychopathic poker player is coming out in him.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Reports say he`s using money he received from a Dutch TV interview to pay for special privileges.
JORAN VAN DER SLOOT (through translator): So I was talking to her, talking to her, talking to her, and she didn`t say nothing.
BETH HOLLOWAY TWITTY, NATALEE`S MOTHER: You want to come through the TV and then kill I mean, I mean, and peel the skin off his face.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Meantime, his attorney says he`s being moved into general population.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight out to Jean Casarez, legal correspondent, "In Session," just back from Lima, Peru. Jean, what can you tell me about Joran Van Der Sloot? Here we have him mocking Natalee`s memory from behind bars, and not only that, a $50,000 jailhouse spending spree. Before I get to all the money he`s throwing around from behind bars, what about him losing it, nutting up after Natalee`s mother confronts him behind bars about Natalee`s murder? What happened?
JEAN CASAREZ, "IN SESSION": Well, Nancy, the reports are coming out of Castro Castro, outside of Lima right now, that Joran Van Der Sloot actually attacked one of the guards because he believed he was trying to serve him food to poison him to death. Now, Nancy, the director of prisons told me it was a very real concern. They were concerned that other inmates would try to poison Joran Van Der Sloot. When I was there, Nancy, he was getting specialized food because that was such an issue with staff at Castro Castro.
GRACE: Joining us tonight, in addition to our panel of lawyers -- Eleanor Odom, Renee Rockwell, Peter Odom -- also with us is Michael Griffin, international criminal defense attorney. Michael, you have handled cases in Peru. You have handled cases from within the walls of Castro Castro. What about this theory that Joran Van Der Sloot nutted up because he was afraid he was being poisoned and then tried to escape? Sounds like more an escape attempt to me.
MICHAEL GRIFFITH, INTERNATIONAL CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY (via telephone): Well, you know, Nancy -- - good evening, Nancy. You know, I have said on your show before more than once that there could be an attempted -- attempt at his life because of what he did and because of who the daughter was. The food there is cooked by prisoners, not by the commissary. And for this to happen to him, I`m really not surprised.
And if they`re going to send him -- and I don`t believe it was a real escape attempt because the security is around Castro Castro is -- is -- it`s very secure. But I believe -- I believe that if they do -- if he is punished, they`re probably going to send him into general population, which is absolutely terrible. That`s where the lowest of the low go. Because where he is right now, it is a fairly cushy section.
GRACE: Well, as you know right now from these and other headlines, Joran Van Der Sloot was sent to solitary confinement. Now, how did that come about, Jean Casarez?
CASAREZ: Well, after he punched the guard, he did run and he got through one cell door. And then he was surrounded by security. They got him to the ground, got him back in his cell. But they wanted to show him who`s boss at Castro Castro, so his protective custody status went to solitary confinement status for 24 hours in a darkened room with no food.
GRACE: To Rupa Mikkilineni, joining us out of New York. Rupa, the big question is, there are reports he attacked this prison guard. But what I want to know is, was it because Natalee`s mother confronted him? What was that all about? And where did it lead -- where did it lead to?
RUPA MIKKILINENI, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, Nancy, this is suspiciously close to the time period, just days after Natalee Holloway`s mother snuck into the prison, confronted Joran Van Der Sloot. And he was upset, visibly upset, according to witnesses, in this prison when she tried to talk to him. So then he gets thrown into some type of a solitary confinement. He isn`t given proper food. He, of course, has been paying guards to get him specially cooked meals. And this time, the guard refused to do that. He was given regular prison food, and got so scared and freaked out that he was being poisoned. And so he freaked out, attacked the guard, and got thrown back in the cell.
GRACE: We are taking your calls. Out to Ellie Jostad, our chief editorial producer. You know, this isn`t the first time we`ve heard that Van Der Sloot plotted an escape. Explain.
ELLIE JOSTAD, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Yes, that`s right, Nancy. About a month ago, we heard reports that Joran Van Der Sloot again was afraid he was going to get sent into general population, that there was a hit out on his life. So he apparently tried to make himself sick by not drinking anything, hoping that he would be sent to the medical ward. And from there, he hoped to disguise himself as an orderly and escape.
GRACE: We are taking your calls. I want to go back to you on this, Jean Casarez. Why do you believe that Beth Holloway went all the way to Lima, Peru, to confront Joran Van Der Sloot to start with?
CASAREZ: You know, Nancy, I think she wanted to stare into his eyes. I think she wants answers. I think she was pure of heart in seeing him. And yes, she wants to know what happened. Yes, she`s doing a story on this. But I think her motive is very much in good faith.
GRACE: You know, and in American prisons here in the U.S., when you attempt an escape, your sentence is greatly enhanced. Out to Renee Rockwell. For an escape attempt, what`s the normal sentence, in addition to what you`re already serving here in the U.S.?
RENEE ROCKWELL, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, Nancy, of course, that would depend on the state, but you could add another 10 -- 5, 10, 15 years. I don`t see, Nancy, that this was an escape attempt. I think he`s spoiled. I think he`s a brat. He`s living the cushy life, and I think that upset Beth Twitty to no end.
Nancy, he`s buying -- playing poker with guards, buying clothes for other prisoners, buying gourmet meals, buying perfume, jewelry for other prisoners that are supposed to be protecting him. Imagine that. You know, Nancy, anything that you can get on the street, you can get in the penitentiary. So I don`t think that`s any place he wants to really escape from right this second.
GRACE: Peter Odom, what`s the normal sentence for an attempt to escape?
PETER ODOM, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: The maximum, in Georgia at least, is 10 years. And in Peru, I just don`t know, but they would certainly add something to his sentence. And I would disagree with Renee to this respect. I think that he probably was attempting to escape, and he`d be smart to escape. When his money runs out and when the -- when any good will from publicity runs out, he`s going to be in danger from prisoners. He came to Peru...
GRACE: I don`t know what good will he`s getting publicity-wise...
PETER ODOM: His fame.
GRACE: ... for the murder of Stephany Tatiana.
PETER ODOM: Fame is probably a better word. As a Dutchman...
GRACE: Yes. I agree with that.
PETER ODOM: ... he came to Peru -- came to Peru and killed a Peruvian national. He`s not going to be very popular there when the money runs out, and his life may well be in danger.
GRACE: Eleanor Odom, Renee Rockwell says he`s just a spoiled brat, that he wasn`t really trying to escape. This is his second attempt.
ELEANOR ODOM, PROSECUTOR: Of course he`s trying to escape, Nancy. Why else is he doing all this? But I love how they just threw him into solitary and just gave him a little taste of what could happen if he keeps it up.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There is videotape surveillance of him committing so many of these crimes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They`ve got him in and out of the room.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is he going to walk free from this?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There`s no way he`s walking. This is too high- profile a case for this jurisdiction to let him go.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ain`t no way, nohow they`re going to let this guy out.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did Joran Van Der Sloot try to escape from a Peruvian jail?
GRACE: Goes berserk!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: After he punched the guard, he did run.
GRACE: Was it because Natalee`s mother confronted him?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was done in a violent and ferocious manner.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Reports say he allegedly made an attempt after attacking a prison guard. And Van Der Sloot`s attorney says he`s being moved into general population.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He is able to be held responsible for his crimes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Tonight we learn that behind bars, Joran Van Der Sloot apparently goes berserk, attacking a guard and then trying to escape, this immediately following a confrontation with Natalee Holloway`s mother, Beth Holloway, who travels all the way from the U.S. to Lima, Peru, gets behind prison walls to confront Joran Van Der Sloot regarding the murder of her girl, Natalee Holloway, there on her high school senior trip, Aruba.
We are taking your calls. Out to Alice in Utah. Hi, Alice.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. Allison. Thank you. I just have a quick question. I know some people don`t believe in this, but in the Van Der Sloot case or any of the others, if they used a medium, a psychic medium, where they get a piece of article (ph) or something from one of the people, they can -- I`ve seen police departments use this before.
GRACE: OK, let`s talk about the use of psychics. They have been used, especially in the investigation phase, when the case goes cold. What about it, Michael Griffith? Have you ever seen one used in a case or admitted into evidence? Now, that`s the problem.
GRIFFITH: Never, Nancy. I`ve never heard of that. Have you heard of it in your experience as a prosecutor? As a defense lawyer I`ve never, ever seen that kind of testimony elicited or given in a courtroom.
GRACE: Yes, I`ve heard of it. I`ve never done it. It`s not accepted in our evidentiary code. And also, you know, if you put up a psychic to show the jury and help solve your case or catch a killer, that could reflect very, very badly if you`ve got one person on the jury that disbelieves psychics, that believes it`s all hocus-pocus and quackery. Then it could ruin the state`s case. You`d better stick with hard, cold evidence.
However, in a lot of cold cases, we have heard of psychics being brought in, psychics volunteering their services to help, for instance, find a body. Again, we`re taking your calls. Thank you, Allison.
I want to go back to Jean Casarez. Jean, what do we know about him living the good life behind bars on a $50,000 spending spree?
CASAREZ: This is really interesting. We know that he recently did an interview for Dutch television, and the report coming out of Castro Castro is that $50,000 got into his hands, being given to him, and he is buying presents and using that money to his benefit. But Nancy, do you realize that in that taped interview for Dutch television, he confesses to extortion? So for $50,000 that might give him the good life right now, federal prosecutors in Alabama -- they`re going to subpoena that tape.
GRACE: You know, it`s amazing to me -- I`m going to throw this to you again, Michael Griffith -- what we can get behind bars. Now, apparently, he`s gotten this money, $50,000 windfall from a Dutch TV service. What can he do with that behind bars?
GRIFFITH: Nancy, down in Peru, in Mexico and Colombia and Ecuador and countries that I`ve visited my clients, you can get anything in that prison. You can get drugs delivered any time of day or night, usually. You can get prisoners to cook your food. You can get guards to bring you in -- to bring you in different types of things. You can -- you can have women come in there. Money in these prisons talks. The guards all take them (ph), and in some of the prisons, it goes all the way up to the warden.
It`s a very serious problem, but that`s the way they run the prisons and it`s totally accepted in Peru and other countries.
GRACE: But how does he access it, Michael Griffith?
GRIFFITH: You mean how does he get the money?
GRACE: Yes.
GRIFFITH: Well, he has people who bring it in, who give it to them (ph). When you have -- when you have visitors come into these prisons, the guards don`t search you that closely when you go back to your cell.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A psychological exam that calls Van Der Sloot, quote, "emotionally immature."
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Emotionally immature.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Very immature, highly dangerous.
GRACE: Mommy insisting Van Der Sloot is mentally ill and depressed. Van Der Sloot`s new nickname behind bars, "Psychopath."
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Low tolerance toward frustration.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Poor impulse control.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Out of control.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Traits of an anti-social personality.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are taking your calls. Reports now that Joran Van Der Sloot goes berserk, attacking prison guards, making an escape attempt, this after Natalee Holloway`s mother confronts him behind bars there in Lima, Peru.
You know, I want to go to you, Dr. Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst, author of "Deal Breakers." Explain his behavior.
BETHANY MARSHALL PSYCHOANALYST: Well, he`s gone from -- he`s gone from the self-appointed ringleader of the circus of filth to feeling like he has turned into a quivering mass. And what I see with sociopaths is this is a very typical trend for them because they do so many bad things. They lack a conscience. They`re arrogant. They`re ruthless.
They start out feeling very satisfied and grandiose and as if they`re actually controlling the police investigation and all the victims. But then they do so many bad things that they actually start to become quite paranoid. And when you put that together with the fact that he has very poor behavioral controls, immature, low frustration tolerance, then you see this picture where he goes from grandiose to paranoid.
GRACE: But what must it mean to him, Andrew Scott, former chief of police, Boca Raton, president, AJS consulting, that Natalee`s mother, Beth Holloway -- you know, a lot of people just view her as a housewife from Alabama. They have no idea what kind of a powerhouse she`s been in this investigation, that she could breach security at Castro Castro and get all the way to him. He`s got to be able to translate that to future death threats.
ANDREW J. SCOTT, FMR. CHIEF OF POLICE, BOCA RATON: Oh, I think this is a huge psychological blow to him. And the fact that the mother had the courage to confront her daughter`s accused killer, and to be able to do it in what he perceives as perhaps a secure facility -- and there she is, confronting him -- that has taken his control away, which probably resulted in his additional behavior pattern of assaulting a guard and trying to escape. But I think it`s -- it was fabulous on the part of the mother. I give her a lot of credit for that.
GRACE: You know, Bethany, she traveled all the way to Lima after he complained publicly, whining that she, Natalee`s mother, was pestering him.
MARSHALL: And that`s what sociopaths do and that is what infuriated her is that he actually has implied that they have messed up his life, that Beth Twitty has messed up his life, rather than the other way around. And sociopaths are quite paranoid. This is a paranoid thought process, too. It`s her fault. It`s not his fault. And I wonder, did she just want to look him in the eye and hear something that might make the whole thing make sense to her?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Latest in the Joran Van Der Sloot case.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Joran Van Der Sloot is fighting.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Van Der Sloot allegedly attacked a guard and tried to escape.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Breaking news tonight in the Natalee Holloway case.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Holloway`s mom, Beth Twitty --
BETH HOLLOWAY TWITTY, NATALEE HOLLOWAY`S MOTHER: We can bring it full circle.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Got inside of Castro Castro prison.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Beth Holloway reportedly speaks to Van Der Sloot himself.
JEAN CASAREZ, LEGAL CORRESPONDENT, "IN SESSION": Right there at the prison.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Immediately after Van Der Sloot nuts up, allegedly becoming violent, trying to assault a prison guard, and then escape.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You never get a second chance to make a first impression.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Joran Van Der Sloot is a confessed killer.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He`s psychotic.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Joran Van Der Sloot is allegedly living in luxury in a Peruvian prison.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There`s no emotional connection.
CASAREZ: Joran Van Der Sloot is mounting complaints.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Joran is sick in the head, but wanted no help.
CASAREZ: Saying that he`s actually the victim in all of this.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: And Van Der Sloot`s attorneys says he`s being moved into general population.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are taking your calls. Back to Ellie Jostad. You know when Beth Twitty travels all the way to Lima, Peru, to confront Joran Van Der Sloot, I`m sure she expected to find him in a hell hole, rat infested, all types of roaches and vermin.
That`s not what she found at all. Number one, how did he get a $50,000 paycheck? And number two, exactly what amenities do we know he`s enjoying?
ELLIE JOSTAD, NANCY GRACE CHIEF EDITORIAL PRODUCER: Well, Nancy, we know that first and foremost he`s getting special meals prepared for him, local delicacies he`s enjoying. Not the food that the rest of the prisoners eat.
And he thinks that this will keep him from being poisoned. That`s part of it. We also hear that he`s getting clothes delivered to him. He`s also buying clothing for his prison pals including that guy, the clown, that alleged hit-man that he`s apparently become friends with in jail.
And we also here that he is getting visits from a blond woman who brings him books, comes to see him in jail. And this is all because he`s able to grease the wheels, so to speak, with this money he got from an interview.
GRACE: Jean Casarez, an interview fee of $50,000? How did that happen?
CASAREZ: Well, you know, when I was there, Nancy, the bidding was about $1 million you could do an interview with him. So 50,000 is far less than a million.
GRACE: To Rupa Mikkilineni, how did Beth Holloway get hooked up with Peter Vandries, the reporter, the Dutch reporter?
RUPA MIKKILINENI, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Right, Nancy. Beth Holloway met Peter De Vries a couple of years ago. You may recall that this is the guy that got Joran Van Der Sloot on tape confessing to being with Natalee the night he died. And this is one of the series -- the first series of confession.
And what`s also interesting, I just wanted to mention, is that guards at this prison in Peru say that when they ask Van Der Sloot what can they tell -- what he tell them about Natalee Holloway, he actually had the audacity to say, what does that matter? She`s dead anyway.
GRACE: You know, Rupa, what did Van Der Sloot`s lawyer tell you about his client being moved to general population?
MIKKILINENI: Right. When I asked him, is that a good thing? Are you worried about your client? The danger of his health, you know, maybe death threats. And he said, no, this is a wonderful thing. He`ll have access to a courtyard. He`ll be able to jog and run and workout and exercise and see the sun.
GRACE: You know, it`s my understanding that he is basically become the jailhouse Santa Claus.
Why, Michael Griffith? Why is he giving everything away to fellow inmates?
MICHAEL GRIFFITH, INTERNATIONAL CRIMINAL DEFENSE LAWYER (via phone): Well, he`s looking for favors because these are local people who have access to relatives who bring in food and books and other things into the prison.
And Nancy, I just like to say, too, when you and I hooked each other kind of last time because I was against the fact that Beth Holloway went into the prison. Because, remember, she`s a chief witness in the extortion case in Alabama.
You were a prosecutor. I think you`d be pretty annoyed to know that your chief witness, you know, snuck into the jail to be a defendant on the case that you were prosecuting. I was concerned about that.
GRACE: Yes, you were concerned about it, but long story short, I don`t think we`ve got any problem with the Aruban authorities prosecuting. And in the U.S. we`re not going to get a hold of him until he gets out of Peru.
And what would his sentence be on a murder conviction, Michael Griffith?
GRIFFITH: Well, I didn`t hear your question, Nancy.
GRACE: What would his sentence be if he`s convicted of murder?
GRIFFITH: Oh, down in Peru, Nancy, it`s probably going to be somewhere around 20 maybe to 25 years. But he`s eligible for parole after serving only one-third. And it`s possible that he could be transferred back to the U.S.
I participated in the transfer of an American prisoner who was transferred to a U.S. prison.
GRACE: To Michael Hunter, chief medical examiner from Panama City. He is joining us tonight via Skype.
Dr. Hunter, thank you for being with us. Doctor, what would be the most likely scenario of Van Der Sloot being poisoned behind bars? That`s his big fear.
DR. MICHAEL HUNTER, M.D., CHIEF MEDICAL EXAMINER, PANAMA CITY, FL., FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST: Yes. You know, Nancy, poisoning is an extraordinarily unusual form of homicide. Very, very rare.
In order for you to actually commit a homicide with poisoning, it has to be kind of an exotic agent. One agent that comes to mind is cyanide.
I think what he needs to be more concerned about is watching his back. Blunt force trauma, stabbing, sharp force injury. I think that`s where his concern really needs to lie.
GRACE: You know, Jean, I`m not getting a clear picture of where his jail cell is in relation to everybody else. How protected is he?
CASAREZ: Well, I can tell you because I was there. It is a wing that has individual cells that have no windows at all, but a door of bars that you can see out. It`s very close to the entrance, but it`s behind many, many barbed wire gates.
And when you see him in the orange outfit as he`s walking -- we were standing right there waiting to go into his cell and they`re taking him to a joining office building.
GRACE: Eleanor Odom, long story short. How long will he wait for trial? And will he make it that far?
ELEANOR ODOM, PROSECUTOR: I don`t know. Depends what that prison population will do, but he should go to trial fairly quickly in Peru. And they`ve got the evidence all lined up against him.
GRACE: And what about it, Jean? Is that true? Is he headed to trial?
CASAREZ: It`s a slow process. And Nancy, it`s as little as seven years for Joran Van Der Sloot. If they find it was an honest, true confession, that will help him. If they bring psychological in, he could get only seven years.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Joran Van Der Sloot.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: He wants control over the opposite sex.
CASAREZ: He reflects certain domination over the opposite sex.
GRACE: Breaking her neck.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We need a psychologist to know that this was a male chauvinist pig?
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: We start with breaking news.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Very tense, very chaotic situation.
GRACE: Beth Holloway confronts Van Der Sloot.
TWITTY: The not knowing is the sheer hell.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Natalee Holloway`s mom Beth Holloway has reportedly spoken to Joran Van Der Sloot in person. Inside the high- security Castro Castro jail.
GRACE: Van Der Sloot nuts up, violently assaulting a prison guard, and trying to escape.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Did Joran Van Der Sloot try to escape from a Peruvian jail?
GRACE: Not so fast, Van Der Sloot.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Reports say he allegedly made an attempt after attacking a prison guard.
JORAN VAN DER SLOOT, SUSPECT IN THE DISAPPEARANCE OF NATALEE HOLLOWAY CASE: I didn`t want to do it.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Joran is sick in his head.
GRACE: I`m concerned he will escape.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Meanwhile another report says Van Der Sloot is allegedly using $50,000 he got from a Dutch TV interview to pay for special privileges in prison.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We`re talking about a guy who is totally cold- blooded, totally narcissistic and totally unempathetic.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Police say a South Carolina mom leaves her 3- year-old daughter home alone while she goes out dancing.
ASHLEY RIVERS, MOTHER OF 3-YEAR-OLD GIRL LEFT HOME ALONE: Like I said, it was bad judgment.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Mary Jones (ph), a neighbor, says she saw a little girl walking towards the parking lot alone in the middle of the night.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was a little girl, and she was all upset.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: When she went to return the child, she discovered no one was home.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Police say the little girl`s mother finally admitted she left her daughter home alone to dance.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: According to police, Rivers told them that the father had the child, but that was not the case. Police say she finally admitted that she left the child home alone and was charged with child neglect.
RIVERS: It`s something that I should have thought about before I did it.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Easy to say now. We are taking your calls. And, you know, mommy is out dancing at 3:30 a.m. Her little girl, her 3-year-old, sitting crying alone in a parking lot. When police take her home nobody is home. Then they catch mommy sneaking in the back door.
You know you want to bust the moves, lady, you can do that behind bars to a little transistor radio.
Faye Alexander, news director, Newstalk 1320 WIS, joining us out of Columbia. Faye, what happened?
FAYE ALEXANDER, NEWS DIRECTOR, NEWSTALK 1320 WIS: Mom left. Mom is changing her story, but the bottom line is she admitted and was caught leaving a 3-year-old completely unattended in an apartment.
She can`t decide if she went dancing or went to pick up keys from the child`s father. She can`t make up her mind or clearly recall what she was doing.
GRACE: You know, Marlaina Schiavo, you spoke to the mom. What did you learn?
MARLAINA SCHIAVO, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER, COVERING STORY: Well, Nancy, she`s denying what the police are saying. The police say that she went out dancing. She says she was only gone for 25 minutes.
But the police report clearly states that they were called to the home at 3:30 in the morning. And she told me herself that she left at 1:00 a.m. She said she went to go get keys. She wasn`t dancing. And all she could say was that, yes, I admit it was bad judgment. But I didn`t think that she would wake up.
GRACE: OK. Run that by me again. She admitted what, Marlaina?
SCHIAVO: She admitted that she left at 1:00 a.m. when her child went to sleep. But she claims she was only gone for 25 minutes and says that she didn`t think that her child would wake up during that time.
GRACE: To go get keys to what?
SCHIAVO: I`m sorry. Her boyfriend, the father of the child, was working at this nightclub, and she said she was going to get keys from him.
GRACE: OK. How far away from the apartment was the little girl, Faye Alexander? We`re talking 3:30 a.m. a 3-year-old little girl out in a parking lot alone crying.
ALEXANDER: Well, it`s not entirely clear what floor she lived on, but we know she was in a parking lot. So she clearly left the front door of the apartment, or a door at the apartment, and made her way out to a parking lot where she was just wandering around.
GRACE: But wait a minute. I`ve got the police report here in my hand, Marlaina. It says nothing about getting some keys. As a matter of fact, it says she says she went dancing at the Sidelines Club.
SCHIAVO: That`s correct.
GRACE: Between 1:00 a.m. and 3:57 a.m. She returned home when the officer was still on the scene.
SCHIAVO: That`s right. And now when I spoke to her today, she`s denying that she ever said that she went dancing to police and is saying that she didn`t come home at 4:00 a.m. But the police report clearly states that they were on the scene at 3:30 and she wasn`t there. And that`s when she came in the backdoor and tried to hide her daughter, saying that the father had taken the child.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Not only that, but they say there was a huge number of empty beer bottles in the apartment.
Thanks, Mommy.
Unleash the lawyers. Eleanor Odom, Renee Rockwell, Peter Odom.
Weigh in, Eleanor.
E. ODOM: Nancy, sad to say this happens all the time. We see parents who go off for whatever reason, to the store, clubbing, leave the kids home alone and they wander out. This child could have been hit by a car. She could have been snatched. The consequences could have been very deadly.
GRACE: Renee Rockwell?
RENEE ROCKWELL, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: It`s only a misdemeanor, Nancy. And she`s not going to see any jail time. I say she`s out on a $5,000 bond right now. The time that she did is all the time she`s going to do.
GRACE: Always good tidings from Renee Rockwell. What about it, Peter?
PETER ODOM, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, a lot of the cases that are seen are ones where the mother has to go to work and can`t get daycare for the kids. This is a little more serious. While it is a misdemeanor, a judge might make a point with her since she was actually out dancing rather than out working or earning for the family or buying groceries.
So she might do some time. More likely she`s going to get parenting classes. She`s going to have to pay a fine. And they`re going to make sure that this is a safer home in the future.
GRACE: To Dr. Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst, author of "Dealbreakers". Bethany, what do you make of it?
BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST, AUTHOR OF "DEALBREAKERS": Well, I wonder how many other acts of neglect led up to this? Was she feeding the child? Was she bathing the child? Was she clothing the child? Did she have a substance abuse problem?
If there were beer bottles all over the house, was she drinking and getting intoxicated in front of the child? Which would tell me that she was mal-attuned and not thinking about the child. Was she anxious about her boyfriend, the baby daddy, being in a nightclub without her and she gravitated to him to check up on him? And valued her relationship with him over that of the child?.
And that is what we see with mothers who neglect and abuse their children. They cling to the love object or they substance abuse and they do not think about the child. The child is disposable.
GRACE: I`ve got an additional narrative on the police report that says on Saturday the results of this investigation presented to Judge James Tally, at which time he issues an arrest warrant for unlawful neglect to child.
Way to go, Judge James Tally.
What I want to find out, Faye Alexander with Newstalk 1320 WIS, where is the baby tonight?
ALEXANDER: As far as we know baby is still with mom and dad.
GRACE: Oh, so the mommy is out, and the baby is back with mommy?
ALEXANDER: Correct. Baby has just been handed to mommy for her to potentially neglect again. Maybe -- who knows? Give her some cold medicine, make sure she sleeps through the night this time.
GRACE: What about it, Eleanor?
E. ODOM: Well, she could possibly be right. And what makes me curious is why there wasn`t a juvenile court hearing to determine whether that was the proper placement for the child.
GRACE: You know, to Dr. Michael Hunter, chief medical examiner, Panama City, joining us via Skype. You know we just have seen out of Florida the tot mom case. A mom who wants to party, who wants to be single again. Who allegedly used homemade chloroform to knock her child out, put her in the car trunk, bind her while she goes partying and has spend the nights over with various guys.
What more will it take? Here we`ve got basically the beginnings of a scenario like that.
HUNTER: Right. Right. And you know, Nancy, it`s absolutely terrible. To leave a child in that type of environment. There are beer bottles there. Who knows what`s actually going on.
What needs to occur is a child protection team needs to investigate along with law enforcement to determine what is best for that child.
GRACE: Right now "CNN Heroes."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MIRA SORVINO, ACTRESS: Hi, I`m Mira Sovino. In 2007 I had the honor of presenting at the first annual "CNN Heroes, All-Star Tribute."
As a U.N. goodwill ambassador to combat human trafficking, I`m committed to raising awareness about trafficking and ending the suffering caused by it.
When I hear the heart-wrenching personal stories of the victims of this heinous crime, I see just how much this world needs heroes.
Now I am thrilled to help CNN introduce one of this year`s top 10 honorees.
ANURADHA KOIRATA, CNN HERO: If someone comes and says I want to make your child a prostitute, they would shoot them. But here, families, they are tricked all the time.
The border between India and Nepal is the conduit point of trafficking. Once they are here, there is no way to escape.
I am Anuradha Koirata, and it is my strong hope to stop every Nepali girl from being trafficked.
When we go to the border, we are intercepting four girls per day. After the rescue the girl is taken to Maiti, Nepal.
They are totally psychologically broken. We give them whatever work they want to do, whatever training they want to do. There is always a small scar, but today I am something new in my life. They are my strength.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: What a week in America`s courtrooms. Take a look at the stories and, more important, the people who touched our lives.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: She was a trusted nurse-practitioner.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Shock and disbelief.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: 53-year-old Kimberly Alter --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Patients certainly can`t believe it. I can`t believe it.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: -- tried to hire a hit-man to kill her husband.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Idaho police arrested a Boise couple after the 4-year-old they were watching allegedly ate a Rice Krispie treat laced with marijuana.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: You can see the trail of blood on her driveway as she ran for help.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Leiah Jackson, a 27-year-old, was in the prime of her life. Elementary school nurse`s aid. She was in night school to get her master`s degree and would soon become a mother. 8 1/2 months pregnant with a baby boy, stabbed more than 20 times here at her home. The unborn child did not survive.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Retired pastor.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Arthur Schirmer, pastor at Readers United Methodist Church.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Charged with murder.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Arrested by state police.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Who say he killed his wife and then faked a car accident to try and cover it up.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: A Tennessee mother who allegedly gave her baby away to a total stranger.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Stranger.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Stranger. Stranger. Stranger.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Didn`t report it to police for eight days.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: While the search for 10-month-old Lauryn Dickens continues, her mother Shakara Dickens faced a judge.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: He was just 9 when his little sister JonBenet Ramsey was killed.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do not jump to conclusions.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Now an expert on the infamous murder case say police want to talk to the brother about what he remembers.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Investigators want to meet with Burke but haven`t yet.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Paris Hilton.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: And her boyfriend Cy Waits were reportedly involved in a hit-and-run accident. Waits allegedly hits a photographer with his Bentley.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Tonight, let`s stop and remember Marine Lance Corporal Eric Heldt, 26, Herman, Missouri, killed Iraq. On a second tour, awarded several medals including the Purple Heart, National Defense Service medal.
Loved football, hunting, and fishing, spending time with family. Volunteered coaching middle school football. Dreamed of becoming a diesel mechanic and football coach. Leaves behind parents Patty and Gary, brothers Matt and Chris, wife Crystal, daughter Taylor.
Erik Heldt, American hero.
Thank you to all of our guests, but especially to you for being with us tonight. And tonight a special good night from the New York control room.
Good night, Brett, Liz, Rosie.
Everyone, I`ll see you tomorrow night 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.
END
