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Nancy Grace

Teen Couple Duct-Tapes Toddler to Wall

Aired October 04, 2010 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight, live, Nebraska. Most mothers love to show off family photos, school pictures, baby with Santa, birthdays. Not this Nebraska mom, who shot off her baby`s photos, too, a Mommy and her doper boyfriend torturing the baby, the photos immortalized on Mommy`s digital camera. And no, duct-taping the 22-month-old to the wall, making him jump and cry for his sippy cup, shutting him in a closet with no light and barricading the door from the outside -- none of it was punishment. It was all just, quote, "for fun," said Mommy. I wonder how much fun Mommy will have when female inmates do the same thing to her. Hey, Mommy, can you say GP, general population?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We want to warn you...

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The details are sick, they`re cruel...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: These images are disturbing.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A 22-month-old toddler in Lincoln, Nebraska...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Duct-taped...

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Duct-taped...

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Duct-taped...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Was duct-taped to a wall, then photographed by his own mother.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Eighteen-year-old teen mom Jayla Hamm (ph) and her 19-year-old boyfriend, Corde Honea, charged with child abuse.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Authorities say that these two thought it was funny.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Imagine this baby`s (INAUDIBLE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Tormented.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Bound his little wrists.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Humiliated.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Legs.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Tortured.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And body.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The child becoming visibly distraught.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Just when you think you`ve seen everything.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Cops say the couple was high after a night of partying. Who would do this to an innocent baby?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: And tonight live, Colorado. Police alerted to an extremely disturbing Craigslist ad listed by a couple desperate to get rid of their newborn baby, promising the infant will die in a dumpster if someone doesn`t rescue the baby, even posting shots of the baby just born, still covered in placenta. Where -- where -- is the Craigslist baby?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Law enforcement is frantic, trying to find a couple who allegedly posted an ad on Craigslist offering to give their newborn baby away to the first person who wants it. Colorado Springs police immediately tried to track down the newborn and the desperate couple, the post threatening the desperate (ph) baby will die if someone doesn`t come and pick it up, the desperate couple who claimed in the ad that the baby would be in a dumpster on University Drive. Police and fire searched the dumpsters and ditches in the area. Colorado Springs police now scouring the area, looking for how the Web site was accessed, trying to track down the sender of the ad and the baby.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We were here for a half an hour or 45 minutes or so and looking through trash cans.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And the IP address used belongs to someone who reportedly has nothing to do with the post. The person who posted the ad hopped on an unsecured Internet connection and now could be anywhere. Who tried to give away their newborn baby on Craigslist like a piece of used furniture?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Bombshell tonight, live, Nebraska. Most moms love to show off family photos, school pictures, baby with Santa, birthdays. Not this Nebraska mother, who showed off her baby`s photos, too, of Mommy and her doper boyfriend torturing the baby.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Shocking and disturbing photos have emerged.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Partying (ph) and thought it was all a joke.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The small toddler can be seen duct-taped to the wall.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Cops weren`t laughing when they slapped both of them with abuse charges.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police say an 18-year-old Nebraska mom and her boyfriend -- this is just unbelievable! -- duct-taped her 22-month-old son to the wall.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Neon green duct tape even pinning the child down by his waist and legs.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: These images are disturbing.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He`s not even 2 years old. You can tell he`s still in diapers.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Cops say the couple was high.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Drug paraphernalia and guns were also found in the home.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What on earth? This is unbelievable!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The little boy, wearing a red Nebraska Cornhuskers outfit, also tries to reach for a sippy cup that`s taped too high for him to reach. He quickly becomes visibly frustrated and cries.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: "Tape tot," not even 2 years old. Straight out to Jean Casarez, legal correspondent, "In Session." Jean, what do we know?

JEAN CASAREZ, "IN SESSION": The judge is calling it cruel and sadistic, as the birth mother pinned that child to the wall while the birth father taped him with duct tape from almost head to toe.

GRACE: You know, I`m taking a look at these photos, and in some of them, Ellie, the little boy -- and we`re not naming his name. He`s just going to be "tape tot" to us. He`s just standing there like he`s stunned about what`s happening. Describe the photos, Ellie. We`re not showing all of them. But Ellie, isn`t this the birth mother, the natural mother, and her doper boyfriend?

ELLIE JOSTAD, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Yes, that`s right, Nancy. This is the boy`s teen mom. She says that she actually held the boy down while her boyfriend applied the duct tape to him.

GRACE: We are taking your calls. Out to Jessica in Maryland. Hi, Jessica.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. I love your show! Do we know how long this was going on for?

GRACE: Well, here`s my theory on it, Jessica. And I`m basing this on prosecuting I don`t even know how many hundreds of child molestation and child abuse cases. If this is what she takes pictures of, Jessica, what do you think they do to this baby that they don`t immortalize on the digital camera and show off to their friends?

With me right now is a special guest, Randall Ritnour, Gage County attorney, joining us from Beatrice, Nebraska. Randall, thank you for being with us. You know, there`s no way that this or other abuse has not happened in the home before. You just don`t suddenly start taking the pictures on day one, Randall.

RANDALL RITNOUR, GAGE COUNTY ATTORNEY (via telephone): I`m sorry, I didn`t catch all of that. What did you say about the pictures?

GRACE: I do not believe this was the first time this child had ever been abused. What do you think?

RITNOUR: Well, I can tell you that the -- we -- our investigation basically showed that for the most part, it was the boyfriend who was involved in most of the abuse. The young girl was 17 years old. She hadn`t had any contact with us before. And our investigation -- our discussion with the officers pretty much pinned an awful lot of this particular incident on the boyfriend. Now, I would agree with you that in most cases, you know, you see one thing, you haven`t seen probably 99 percent of what`s gone on in the home.

GRACE: With us is Randall Ritnour, the Gage County attorney, joining us from Beatrice, Nebraska.

Let`s go to C.W. Jensen, retired Portland police captain. Captain Jensen, it`s so great to have you with us tonight. Captain, I`m thinking back on those 10 years I prosecuted felonies, and now I`m realizing it was up in the thousands of child abuse and molestations that I handled by trial or by plea. And let me tell you something, Jensen. You don`t take pictures your very first time at the rodeo, all right? This child has been abused before.

In fact, the mom almost brags about barricading the little boy in a dark closet, no lights, shutting the door, and then barricading it with those 5 and 20-pound water bottles while the baby screams and cries to get out of the dark closet. And she almost brags about that, Captain. This is not -- this is the tip of the iceberg, what we`re seeing right here, Jensen.

C.W. JENSEN, RETIRED PORTLAND POLICE CAPTAIN: Well, based on my experience as a detective, I would say you`re absolutely right. This is the tip of the iceberg. Taking a small child and putting them in a closet, in a dark closet -- I mean, we know as human beings, that`s one of our primal fears is the dark. And then to tape him up against a wall so he can`t move his arms or his legs -- he`s crying. I mean, this had to make everybody sick when they saw this. If you saw someone doing this to a dog, you`d be infuriated. But to do this to a 22-month-old toddler? It`s horrific.

GRACE: Jean Casarez, what did the mom have to say when she was finally arrested for this?

CASAREZ: Well, she -- in all the pictures, she smiled and looked upon it in a light-hearted manner, that it was funny and they were having a good time at doing it.

GRACE: Well, they were both high.

CASAREZ: But that is not a defense, as you well know.

GRACE: I know.

CASAREZ: It doesn`t serve any purpose.

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: You`d think anything was funny when you`re high, when you`re on dope.

CASAREZ: But it shows the state of mind, the laughter, the enjoyment, the intentional act.

GRACE: Out to the lines. Arlene, California. Hi, Arlene.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. I`m a grandma who lived in Lincoln, Nebraska, for 50 years. And my question is, is this considered felony charges? The same was done to me when I was 3 under foster care in Omaha, Nebraska, putting in dark closet. And that hadn`t come out when I first called you. So I`m really traumatized about this, being a grandma with a grandson there. But I want to know if the felony charges on both of those people -- and that they should be locked away because this`ll cause this little child psychiatric for the rest of his life!

GRACE: Hey, Arlene, how old were you when you were locked in a dark closet?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Three.

GRACE: And you still remember it, right?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes! I`m totally fearful of dark places, fearful of crowds. I`ve had psychiatric since this happened to me as a little child. So I just want to know that, you know, they`re put away for a while because that child will suffer with this abuse. In the back of his mind, it`ll always be there for the rest of his life, even only being almost 2. It doesn`t go away. You`re fearful of closed places, paranoid of other people, especially Mommy`s strange boyfriends, you know, because I was in foster care with strangers.

GRACE: Well, you know what, Arlene? I`m going to answer that question by going to Dr. Lillian Glass, psychologist, body language expert, author. Dr. Lillian, the other night when I got home from the show, John David and Lucy were still up, all right, which they were supposed to be asleep. But they were still up, and I got Lucy to sleep and I was trying to get John David to sleep. And he was sitting in his crib (INAUDIBLE) I said, What`s wrong, baby? He said, Mommy, I scared. I scared. I said, What are you scared of? You`re not afraid. He said, Of the dark. He`s afraid of the dark. And you know, so I opened up the door and all the light came in from the hall, and I went and dug up a really bright light, a night light, and plugged it in.

Long story short, I didn`t realize how traumatic what Arlene in California is describing. This kid is going to remember all this, isn`t he, Lillian.

LILLIAN GLASS, PSYCHOLOGIST: Absolutely. And you know, you`re obviously a beautiful, loving mother, Nancy. This woman isn`t. There`s sadism involved here with her. And when your caller called in, it`s heartbreaking because these traumatic incidences last forever!

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... Jane (ph), believe that, Oh, little kids don`t remember. They cry. It`s not going to hurt them. But the truth is, at this early pre-verbal stage, memories are stored in our body as feelings. And how we behave for the rest of our life is related to those feelings. This child was abused, terrorized. Look at the pictures! How unsafe is that environment!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A helpless toddler duct-taped to a wall.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police say for entertainment.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Unbelievable photos.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Neon green duct tape pinning the child down by his waist and legs.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This boy was being tormented and humiliated.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Her live-in boyfriend bound his little wrists.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The child becoming visibly distraught.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Very sadistic. It`s very cruel.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Authorities say that these two thought it was funny.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Cops say the couple was high on dope.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Charged with child abuse.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The mom got 10 days in jail. She has the child back.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: These images are disturbing.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s heartbreaking to try to save children because the everlasting effects from this incident -- we don`t know what`s going to happen to this child. Nebraska has very light laws when it relates to neglect, and that`s what she was charged with and convicted of. It`s a misdemeanor offense, so she was not going to get much time in jail.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: We are getting word right now about two little children, Tristan (ph) and Trinity (ph), that have gone missing. Right now, we are hearing straight out of Shreveport, police searching for 2 and 4-year-old little boy. Police say the children`s mother, Tammy Goins (ph), went to the home, Linwood (ph) Avenue, two children, 4 and 6 years old. Amber Alert now issued. We`re bringing you the latest out of Shreveport as soon as we get more word on missing Tristan and Trinity, ages 4 and 6 years old.

But right now, straight back to the story that we are bringing you. Out to the lines. Sharon in Arizona. Hi, Sharon.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. How are you tonight?

GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s your question?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, that looks like some pretty heavy tape they have on that child. And I am just wondering if he has any scars where they ripped that tape off of his skin. I`m sure they didn`t do it with any care.

GRACE: What about it? To you, Ellie Jostad. What do we know about scarring from this duct tape?

JOSTAD: Well, Nancy, that`s actually the miraculous thing here. We`re told that the boy did not have any serious injuries and they didn`t see visible marks from where that tape was, even though in some of the pictures, you see the tape across the boy`s bare legs.

GRACE: Out to the lines. Sharon, Alabama. Hi, Sharon. To Beverly in Colorado. Hi, Beverly.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. It`s so good to talk to you!

GRACE: Likewise.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I am sickened by this case! Number one -- and I have a few things to say. Number one, this mother has less blame because she is an alcoholic or on drugs? She should have more blame! She`s a mother, for God`s sake! And the other thing I have to say is I understand this mother has this child on the weekends because the law, the legal authorities, don`t want to disrupt the maternal-child relationship. Why -- Nancy, why do they hide her identity? She`s of age. Show her face!

GRACE: Out to Jean Casarez. Please tell me I`m wrong that the judge in this case only gave the mother 10 days.

CASAREZ: Yes, 10 days to be served on the weekends, so she could have supervised visitations during the week. She is with the child right now.

GRACE: I`m referring to Judge Paul Korslund. He`s 61 years old. He graduated from Georgetown University, got his law degree -- can we see a shot of Paul Korslund, Liz? That`s what we`re talking about right now -- appointed district court judge in 1998, received the distinguished judge`s service to the community award in 2008. And he gave this mother 10 days behind bars!

With us, Randall Ritnour, the Gage County attorney. Randall, do you believe that that was a tiny bit lenient?

RITNOUR: Well, you have to understand the entire case. In fact, Judge Korslund is one of the favorite judges of both the attorney general`s office and my office. I`ve prosecuted for 15 years with four jurisdictions. I know what child abuse looks like. In this particular case, the real perpetrator, the real culprit was the man who got three to five years in prison for the child abuse case.

GRACE: And this...

RITNOUR: This girl actually was sort of led along by him for about a four-week period, and it seems to be somewhat of an aberration in her life.

GRACE: To Dr. Lillian...

RITNOUR: Now, that seems surprising, but I`ll tell you, I`ve seen a lot of these and I know what I`m looking at.

GRACE: To Dr. Lillian Glass. How can a mom stand by and let this happen to her baby?

GLASS: She`s with a toxic man that`s influenced her, and she`s toxic herself. She`s got some major problems.

GRACE: You know what? I`m not buying -- I`m not buying it`s somebody else`s fault. She`s the mommy!

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Duct-taped to a wall and photographed by his own mother.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is unbelievable! He`s not even 2 years old. You can tell he`s still in diapers.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police have charged the child`s mother and her boyfriend with child abuse.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Cops say the couple was high and had been partying and thought it was all a joke.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There he is, reaching up, trying to get his sippy cup, but he can`t reach it because it`s duct-taped too high.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why did Mommy only get 10 days in jail, and why is the baby boy back in her care?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: We are taking your calls. Out to Jean Casarez. You know, I`m not buying anybody`s argument that the mom was talked into this. When the mom was sentenced to her 10 days, she was 18 years old. Tell me about the boyfriend`s rap sheet, the doper boyfriend.

CASAREZ: Oh, all right. I was going to talk about the judge`s order. But the boyfriend`s rap sheet -- first of all, it`s extensive. And here -- she was originally charged with a felony, but she worked with prosecutors so it went down to a misdemeanor because there were loose guns, Nancy, that were found all over the home. And the boyfriend was charged and convicted for the illegal gun possession.

GRACE: Wa-wait! Wa-wait! Wa-wait! Why are we not showing his face? Well, I guess because we don`t want to identify the child.

CASAREZ: That is what I hear.

GRACE: But this is the boyfriend. I don`t get it. Go ahead. Tell me the boyfriend`s rap sheet.

CASAREZ: OK. The boyfriend`s rap sheet -- loose guns all through the home. He had been charged with burglary and also possession of firearms. They...

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: Corde Honea is the boyfriend.

CASAREZ: Yes.

GRACE: And so they found guns in the home...

CASAREZ: Loose!

GRACE: ... where the baby could get them?

CASAREZ: Loose guns, that`s right. That`s right. And also, they found pot in the home and pot-making materials in the home, all of that...

GRACE: And isn`t it true that all the guns that were found in the home were taken out of a burglary?

CASAREZ: That`s right. He had already been charged with it. They found their evidence. They found him. She helped prosecutors in his conviction, so she got a deal. She got a misdemeanor negligent child abuse.

GRACE: She got a deal. And what is his sentence, Jean Casarez?

CASAREZ: Three to five years.

GRACE: He`ll be out in about what, six months, maybe?

CASAREZ: Maybe.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) case. What we did was, when we found all this and we found out that there was pot that night, the child was taken away. The young man was incarcerated again. The mother was charged, as well, and she was originally charged with felony child abuse.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Law enforcement is frantic.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: A post that showed up on Craigslist.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s a sick thing.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Launched several calls to police. Trying to a find a couple who allegedly posted an ad on Craigslist not a hoax, offering to give their newborn baby away to the first person who wants it.

The post claimed a baby, the desperate baby would die --

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Will die if someone doesn`t come and pick it up.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The desperate couple who claimed in the ad that the baby would be in a dumpster. Colorado Springs Police now scouring the area trying to track down the sender of the ad and the baby.

Who tried to give away their newborn baby on Craigslist? Like a piece of used furniture?

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: A post that showed up on Craigslist launched several calls to police. The post claimed a baby would die if someone didn`t pick it up. Colorado Springs Police immediately tried to track down the newborn and the desperate couple who claimed in the ad that the baby would be in a dumpster on University Drive.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

NANCY GRACE, HOST: We are taking your calls, out to Mark Goldberg, with KBOR Newsradio, joining us out of Colorado Springs.

Mark, posting your baby on Craigslist?

MARK GOLDBERG, KBOR NEWSRADIO: That`s what they say. They`re not sure if it`s legitimate or not, though.

GRACE: OK, to Rupa Mikkilineni. What does the ad say?

RUPA MIKKILINENI, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: It`s a shocking ad, really. It reads like this. "I`m a teenage mother who`s kicked out of my mom and dad`s house because I was pregnant nine months ago. I have just given birth and I don`t know what to do with the baby. My boyfriend will put it in the trash can right in front of the apartment so someone can give it up."

It gives an address where she`s located. And then it says, "I just don`t know what to do. Please help my baby."

GRACE: Out to Sergeant Steve Noblitt, PIO, Colorado Springs Police.

Sergeant, what do we know so far in the investigation?

SGT. STEVE NOBLITT, PIO, COLORADO SPRINGS POLICE (via phone): Well, we`ve done everything we can to try to track down the person or persons that placed the ad and so far, you know, we haven`t been successful. But what we did find -- we went to the location where the ad indicated, you know, the baby would be placed in the trash condition.

We went to there, searched dumpsters in the area. We also kind of tracked down the IP address of where the signal or the Internet was obtained. We interviewed the people in that home. Don`t have any reason to believe that they were involved. And didn`t know that tried to an unsecure wireless connection, though. So what we believe now is at some point someone had accessed their Internet connection and probably placed the ad from there. So we really --

GRACE: Everyone, take a look at this ad. An unidentified Craigslist advertiser advertises a newborn baby, even including a shot of the baby still covered in placenta.

We are taking your calls. Out to the lines, to Lisa in Mississippi. Hi, Lisa.

LISA, CALLER FROM MISSISSIPPI: Hi, Nancy. I have a question and a comment.

GRACE: OK.

LISA: First, my comment. We are a country where the punishment is supposed to fit the crime. I`m not seeing that, and I`m so thankful that you are bringing to light these stories. I`m hoping that maybe that will change some of the laws for these unborn children or these newborn children, or these even toddlers.

And second, if this is true about the Craigslist listing, what are the parents facing? What kind of charges are they facing?

GRACE: Unleash the lawyers. Joining us tonight, Sue Moss, family law attorney, child advocate, joining us out of New York. Out of Atlanta, veteran defense attorney, former prosecutor, Kirby Clemens. Out of New York, veteran trial lawyer Jason Oshins.

What about it, Sue Moss?

SUSAN MOSS, FAMILY LAW ATTORNEY & CHILD ADVOCATE: Craigslist, at least eBay raised the sellers. What they could possibly be charged with is, God forbid, murder in case this child is put in some sort of a garbage can and died. Assault. Certainly child endangerment. Felony child abuse and even worse, depending on what is -- what happens to this little child.

GRACE: What about it, Jason?

JASON OSHINS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Listen, you know, really what we have to go through here, if it is true, is finding that out. You know, where is this? Was this some sort of intent? Was there a ploy? Was it a joke? You know what was it? You know how did it narrow down? Who has done this? And just as Sue said, you know, any of those charges could be faced based upon what happens with that infant.

GRACE: Kirby Clemens?

KIRBY CLEMENS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I absolutely agree that it could be those charges, the endangerment, murder, anything of that nature. But I`ll go a step further and say if this ends up being a hoax, they`ll probably going to be on the hook for filing a false report or something of that nature because this is a bit ridiculous.

GRACE: Out to Ben Levitan, telecommunications expert. Joining us out of Raleigh, North Carolina.

Ben, it`s great to speak to you. Ben, how do you track down an ad like this?

BEN LEVITAN, TELECOMMUNICATIONS EXPERT (via phone): Well, if somebody wants to hide themselves, it`s not too difficult. But generally the way it works is every computer connected to the Internet has what`s the equivalency of a phone number. Just like your telephone number, but it`s called an IP address.

And that is structured in such a way that you can find out what country the computer was located. You can find out what network, say, for example, AT&T or Verizon or any other network.

And then from there, that network would assign an IP address to that computer in particular. So every computer you have has a worldwide unique number. And all you have to do is trace it back to who is plugged into that number.

However, with wireless Internet, you`re just assigning these phone numbers temporarily, just for the time that you`re on. And then when you release it, it`s assigned to someone else. So in this case it could be difficult.

GRACE: Here is what the ad says. I am a teenage mother kicked out of my mom and dad`s house because I was pregnant. Nine months ago. I`ve just given birth. And I don`t know what to do with the baby. My boyfriend will put it in the trash can right in front of the apartment. Someone can puck it up. I`m at 232 University Drive. I just don`t know what to do. Please help my baby.

And a photo of a newborn baby is attached.

I want to go back to the lines, but first I want to go to Sue Moss.

Sue, if this is true, every minute counts.

MOSS: Oh, absolutely. Every second counts. And luckily the authorities have been all around. Not only checking in the garbage can where it`s alleged the baby would be, but also all of the ditches. Also draining the local waters.

The police are on it. But what has to happen, somebody needs to know about this. Either parents or maybe somebody who actually delivered the child. It`s those people who need to come forward to give us more clues. Because if they don`t give us the clues this child is going to die.

GRACE: Mark Goldberg, with KBOR Newsradio, joining us out of Colorado Springs.

Mark, when was the ad on Craigslist placed?

GOLDBERG: It was Friday evening about 5:30, 6:00-ish.

GRACE: OK. To Dr. Howard Oliver, former deputy medical examiner, joining us out of L.A. Friday around 6:00. How long could a baby live without nourishment?

HOWARD OLIVER, FMR. DEPUTY MEDICAL EXAMINER, FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST: A baby that young would die within the first day without nourishment.

GRACE: After just one day the baby would die?

OLIVER: Yes.

GRACE: So we don`t know when the baby was placed in the dumpster, if it was that night. If it was the next day. There is a chance if this is true the baby is still alive.

On that Craigslist ad was a photo of the newborn baby still covered in placenta? Now, does that suggest the baby was born in or out of the hospital?

To Sgt. Steve Noblitt, PIO, Colorado Springs Police. I assume hospitals were checked for newborns, correct?

NOBLITT: Certainly. You know, we did everything we could to track this person down. But absolutely.

GRACE: Now, you said everything. Tell us what you did.

NOBLITT: What we initially did was we obviously went to the address. We dispatched police there and they were on scene within minutes of us getting a call. And we searched the area of the dumpsters and then knocked on doors and started talking to everybody in the area, trying to establish who may have sent this ad.

In addition to that, we, through some investigative techniques, learned the IP address and ran that down. Made contact with the owner of the wireless network, interviewed those folks to determine that, you know, at least we didn`t have reason to believe they were involved. If it stood to reason.

GRACE: Everyone tonight, out of Colorado a baby posted on Craigslist. Is the baby, the Craigslist baby, still alive?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We were here for half an hour or 45 minutes or so. And they began walking up the street with their flashlights looking through trash cans. Either way, it`s a sick thing.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: A post that showed up on Craigslist launched several calls to police. The post on Craigslist was titled, "Desperate baby will die if someone doesn`t come pick it up."

Colorado Springs Police immediately trying to track down the newborn and the desperate couple who claimed in the ad that the baby would be in a dumpster on University Drive. Police are now frantically trying to track down the couple who allegedly posted it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And they began walking up the streets with their flashlights looking through trash cans.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The ad further states the poster is that teen who had just delivered and her boyfriend was going to put the baby in a trash can.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Either way, it`s a sick thing.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The ad concludes, "I just don`t know what to do, please help my baby."

Reports say a picture of the newborn still covered in blood is also in the ad. The person who posted the ad could be anywhere.

Who is behind the post on Craigslist, and is there a baby in danger?

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Police and fire searched the dumpsters and the ditches in the area. But found nothing. And the IP address used belongs to someone who reportedly has nothing to do with the post, which leads investigators to believe the person who posted the ad popped on an unsecured Internet connection and now could be anywhere.

A similar post appeared on Craigslist this June claiming to be giving away a 10-month-old baby girl. Spring Police determined that post was a hoax, but they say the one that turned up this weekend is not a hoax. And the investigation is still ongoing. Searching for a couple who claimed to be desperate.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: OK. That`s not making any sense to me. Rupa, to first suggest they thought it was a hoax. Then say, no, it`s not a hoax. This is for real. How did they come to that deduction?

MIKKILINENI: Well, Nancy, the investigation is open. They haven`t ruled out whether it`s a hoax or not a hoax. But they`re taking this very seriously because they`ve not been able to prove it is a hoax.

GRACE: Rupa. Rupa. Rupa. They just said, it`s not a hoax.

Everyone, what we are talking about is an ad on Craigslist. You go there normally to look for used computers and workout exercise bikes and weight machines. Not this time.

"I am a teenage mother kicked out of my mom and dad`s house because I was pregnant nine months ago. I have just given birth and don`t know what to do with the baby. My boyfriend will put it the trash can right in front of the apartment so someone can pick it up. I`m at 232 University Drive. I just don`t know what to do. Please help my baby."

Out to the line. Let`s go out to Serena in Pennsylvania. Hi, Serena. Serena, are you with me? Let me try Jean in Canada. Hi, Jean.

JEAN, CALLER FROM CANADA: Hi. It`s Jean.

GRACE: Hi, Jean. Hi, dear. What`s your question?

JEAN: I watch you show every night. You`re really big on important issues and I think it`s very good.

GRACE: Thank you, Jean. And thanks to all the friends in Canada for watching. What is your question, dear?

JEAN: I love your show. But I wanted to tell you that you can take babies to hospitals and somebody will be willing to adopt. There`s a lot of people who want to adopt babies, so that would be a good thing to put out there if there`s other people in that situation.

GRACE: Man, you`re telling me, Jean in Canada. People all over this country would pay an arm and a leg to have this baby, will go through anything, all sorts of torturous medical procedures to get pregnant and have a baby. All the people standing in line to adopt.

And now this. Put your baby on Craigslist? You know, I thought I had seen it all until out tonight.

Out to CW Jensen, Captain Jensen, retired Portland Police captain. Weigh in, captain.

CW JENSEN, RETIRED PORTLAND POLICE CAPTAIN: Well, you know, whether this is real or whether it`s a hoax, your last caller brought up a very good point. In all 50 states in the United States there are what`s called Safe Haven laws.

So if a kid gets in trouble like this, and doesn`t know what to do with their baby, they can take it to hospitals, fire stations, and turn those children over. So whatever happens with this case, and I`m hoping it is a hoax, that there`s not a baby in danger, I hope that the message gets out to people --

GRACE: Well, Captain Jensen --

JENSEN: -- that there is another option.

GRACE: Police are saying they have no evidence to confirm that this is a hoax. No evidence to confirm this is a hoax.

Now I know you can get all sorts of pictures and just post them. But a baby still covered in placenta. That photo was placed along with a Craigslist ad for a baby.

We are taking your calls. Out to Edith in Delaware. Hi, Edith.

EDITH, CALLER FROM DELAWARE: Hello, Nancy.

GRACE: Hello, dear. What is your question?

EDITH: My question is what if someone gets the baby and doesn`t report it? What would happen to them?

GRACE: That is entirely possible. And have you noticed lately how many cases we`re covering where moms give away the baby? We don`t know if they really gave the baby away or if they killed the baby or if they sold the baby, which would be illegal.

We don`t know the answers to any of these questions. And all of these cases are just hanging there because we can`t confirm what happened to the baby. Is this another one?

Let`s unleash the lawyers, with Edith`s question from Delaware. Susan Moss, Kirby Clemens, Jason Oshins.

What about it, Susan?

MOSS: Oh, absolutely. That person would be in a lot of trouble. You know, go to a hospital. Go to a police. And on life this kid could have a new lease. If this mother, even if she just gives it away to somebody, that child will never be able to be properly be registered for school, never be properly registered if they have to go to a hospital.

There`ll be no official documentation and this kid still will be in a load of trouble.

GRACE: But Kirby Clemens, what about the person, the Good Samaritan, that goes and gets the baby and brings it up? What about that person? Are they facing criminal charges?

CLEMENS: Well, I don`t think they should face criminal charges.

GRACE: I didn`t ask you that.

CLEMENS: No.

GRACE: I`m asking you, could they?

CLEMENS: Could they? Yes. Because they could argue that that person was part of that endangerment process. But if that person says I rescued this child and I`m now bringing him to the authorities, then I think that person would not face criminal charges.

GRACE: Jason Oshins, what about it?

CLEMENS: It all depends on how the authorities look at it.

OSHINS: You know what, Nancy? I don`t think they would face charges if they -- if they went and secured the child and, you know, initially brought them to any of the safe harbors. But --

GRACE: No, no. No, no. No, no. If they took the baby and took it home to raise it. Would they face criminal charges?

OSHINS: Nancy, you mean took it, by finding it somewhere after it was discarded or just --

GRACE: Yes.

OSHINS: -- simply being part of the process? I don`t -- I think if they raised the child as their own, they could face an endangerment charge knowing that the child wasn`t their own.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The ad further states the poster is a teen who had just delivered and her boyfriend was going to put the baby in a trash can. The ad concludes, quote, "I just don`t know what to do. Please help my baby."

Reports say a picture of the newborn still covered in blood also in the ad.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The post on Craigslist was titled, quote, "Desperate baby will die if someone doesn`t come pick it up." And police are now frantically trying to track down the couple who allegedly posted it.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The IP address used belongs to someone who reportedly has nothing to do with the post, which leads investigators to believe the person who posted --

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Posting an ad for a newborn baby along with a photo of the child still covered in placenta? The ad is desperate. "I am a teen aged mom kicked out of my mom and dad`s house. I`ve just given birth. I don`t know what to do with the baby. My boyfriend will put it in the trash can. I`m at 232 University Drive. Please help my baby."

To Jenny in Minnesota, hi, Jenny.

JENNY, CALLER FROM MINNESOTA: Hi, Nancy. What I`m wondering is, why isn`t there more information given out about the Safe Haven laws to all pregnant women. I didn`t personally lean about this law until watching your show. So I think we need to give more information and pass it from the doctors.

GRACE: You know what? That`s a great idea. I don`t see why it`s not posted just like drinking and smoking is hazardous to the baby. That`s posted everywhere. What about Safe Haven?

Everyone, this story is out of Beatrice, Nebraska. We don`t know any of the answers. Excuse me, Colorado Springs, Colorado. And tonight police say they have no evidence that this ad is a hoax.

Let`s stop and remember Army Specialist Travis Anderson, 28, St. Louis Valley, Colorado, killed Iraq. Awarded the Purple Heart, two Army Achievement medals, National Defense Service medal, Combat Infantryman Badge.

Loved hunting, fishing, Colorado Mountains, time with friends, nicknamed Lucy. Leaves behind grieving mother Barb, grandmother Violet, sister Tasha, Izzie, Amanda, brother Buddy.

Travis Anderson, American hero.

Thanks to our guests but especially to you and a special good night tonight from California friend, Josh. Now isn`t he a handsome one?

And happy birthday to Indiana friend, mother of four, grandmother of eight, Gloria Bridges. Isn`t she beautiful?

Also, lung cancer, number one killer cancer in the world. You don`t have to smoke to get lung cancer. Sunday, October 10, 8:30 a.m. the Bonnie Jay Addario Run/Walk, Atlanta, Georgia. Go to lungcancerfoundation.org.

Also this week marks National 4-H Week, the largest youth development program in the country. Everyone working together for head, heart, hands and health.

Everyone, I`ll see you tomorrow night 8:00 sharp. And until then, good night, friend.

END