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Secret Talks with Taliban: Meeting Aimed at Ending War; Chilean Miner Rescue Imminent; Foreclosure Freeze in 23 States; Gitmo Detainee Trial; Obama-Clinton Ticket in 2012?; IVF Kids Smarter?
Aired October 06, 2010 - 06:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JOHN ROBERTS, CNN ANCHOR: Good Wednesday morning to you. And thanks so much for joining us. It's October the 6th. I'm John Roberts.
KIRAN CHETRY, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Kiran Chetry. We want to get you caught up on what happened overnight.
Talking to the Taliban. Reports this morning saying that secret high- level negotiations are underway between the Taliban and the Hamid Karzai government in Afghanistan to end the war. We're live in Kabul with the latest.
ROBERTS: The buzz is building. Will President Obama bounce Vice President Joe Biden from the ticket in 2012 and replace him with Secretary of State Hillary Clinton? Reporter Bob Woodward says it's a possibility that's, quote, "on the table."
Remember the 33 trapped Chilean miners? Well, they could soon be rescued. Drilling crews could reach the underground chamber by the weekend. And Chile's president is calling the miners' rescue, quote, "imminent." We're live at the scene with more details on just how this will happen in just a moment.
ROBERTS: Wouldn't that be a great October surprise for them?
CHETRY: Absolutely.
ROBERTS: Up first, talking with the enemy. This morning, the "Washington Post" is reporting that secret high-level meetings are underway between the Afghan government and the Taliban.
CHETRY: Sources are telling the paper the Taliban is very serious about finding a, quote, "way out" and ending the war and that the people at the table speak for the Afghan Taliban's leader, Mohammed Omar.
Ivan Watson is live for us in Kabul this morning. How likely is it that the Afghan government could indeed make any progress in talks with the Taliban?
IVAN WATSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kiran, things are always very murky here in Afghanistan when it comes to Afghanistan and Pakistan, and especially the Taliban, which bridges both the border. High-level Afghan officials denying that this is an Afghan government initiative. They're describing this as talks between certain Afghan and Pakistani political figures. And they're also denying that the Taliban is anywhere involved in these talks. However, some of the figures that we've talked to, Afghan sources say that a former Taliban official who has reconciled with the Afghan government years ago, Mullah Zaeef (ph), he is one of the people that has been active in these conversations taking place.
It seems like whatever is going on, whatever these negotiations are, they're very much a preliminary negotiations. Perhaps you could describe them as one analyst here did, as talks about talks. Certainly a good sign given the amount of bloodshed we've seen in this country over the last nine years, though, Kiran.
ROBERTS: Yesterday, Ivan, at the Pentagon press conference at the daily briefing, it was mentioned that General Petraeus has admitted that the Taliban has been negotiating with the government. Let's listen to what spokesman Geoff Morrell said in response to that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEOFF MORRELL, PENTAGON PRESS SECRETARY: The fact that General Petraeus has been speaking to this issue, perhaps he and/or his spokesman would want to elaborate on it. I think what we have seen, Michael, and you travel with us, you heard this firsthand from General Petraeus when you all spoke with him then is we have seen a high level outreach by some members of the Taliban to the Afghan government.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERTS: Ivan, military planners aware that this is happening. That would be a natural, certainly if the diplomats did. But what's it going to mean to our military mission there?
WATSON: Well, I think there's broad agreement that there is not a purely military solution to this conflict now going very soon into its tenth year, the bloodiest year yet for U.S. troops on the ground.
I checked with the U.S. embassy here, their conditions for any kind of settlement, possible settlement with the Taliban. They say they haven't changed. They are that the U.S. wants an Afghan-led process of reconciliation. They want the Taliban to break ties with Al Qaeda and to live under the Afghan constitution that includes equal rights for Afghan men and women.
Last week, the Taliban, we reached out to them. They rejected General Petraeus' claims that a high-level Taliban official had reached out to the Afghan government. They said there is no negotiation process underway. And they said that their standards for any kind of negotiated process would be the removal of all, quote unquote, "foreign-occupying forces from Afghanistan."
That said, we have heard over the years about efforts at negotiation between key insurgent leaders like Gulbuddin Hetmatyar (ph) in the past. This is not a new thing. Negotiations of some sort taking place. But, again, very early stages. And this war is more violent than ever right now. John, I just came down from the south. Afghan NATO forces dying every day as a result of IEDs and Taliban commanders being targeted by U.S. and NATO forces day after day. This war is raging across the south and east of this country, John.
ROBERTS: No question, a lot of difficulties remain there. Ivan Watson for us this morning in Kabul. Ivan, thanks.
CHETRY: And speaking to that issue yet again, we're talking about NATO supply trucks being torched. Dozens more being torched this morning. It happened on the Pakistani side of the border. Thousands of gallons of fuel burning out of control after gunmen fired on the convoy. This is the third major attack on supplies in the past week. These trucks have been sitting ducks as it's been described to us because they have nowhere to go since Pakistan closed vital supply lines to coalition troops last week to protest a NATO air strike that killed three of its soldiers according to reports. The initial report from NATO on that attack is due out today.
ROBERTS: Now to the Most Politics in the Morning. The rumors are swirling that Secretary of State Hillary Clinton will join President Obama on the ballot in 2012. Appearing on "JOHN KING USA" last night, "Washington Post" reporter Bob Woodward was asked about the possibility of Vice President Biden switching positions with the secretary of state.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: You know the talk in town. A lot of people think if the president's a little weak going into 2012, he'll have to do a switch there and run with Hillary Clinton as his running mate. In all of these conversations, in all of the political conversations and the asides that you have when you're doing serious research, sometimes you have political asides. Things like that come up?
BOB WOODWARD, ASSOCIATE EDITOR, "WASHINGTON POST": It's on the table. And some of Hillary Clinton's advisers see as a real possibility in 2012, President Obama needs some of the women, Latinos, retirees that she did so well with during the 2008 primaries. And so they switched jobs --
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERTS: The White House senior adviser David Axelrod is quoted in the "Washington Post" as saying, "There's absolutely nothing to it. Ed Henry is going to join us later on in the hour to talk more about this.
CHETRY: It'll be interesting though, because, you know, for the past two years of this administration, she's been able to look very, you know, in command, in charge, been out of the political fray. And so she looks like a really, really appealing figure right now for Democrats.
ROBERTS: And in a recent poll, 37 percent of Democrats said they would vote for her over President Obama if they were going head-to- head in 2012.
CHETRY: All right. Well, we'll see what Ed knows about it a little later.
Meantime, President Obama kept his cool during a speech at "Fortune" magazine's Most Powerful Women Summit. This was in Washington. Check out what happened. The presidential seal became unsealed.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Engineering -- we cannot sustain -- whoops. Was that my -- oh, goodness. That's all right. All of you know who I am. But I'm sure there's somebody back there that's really nervous right now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHETRY: Probably that's a safe bet. There you go. Maybe it was him. The seal was retrieved after the president's speech. And by the way, men aren't usually invited to speak at the event. Organizers though say that the president earned the spot considering his cabinet and Supreme Court nominations.
ROBERTS: You think John Boehner had anything to do with that suggesting powers fleeting in Washington?
Also this morning, a police manhunt underway for a gunman after a deadly shooting spree in Illinois and Indiana. One person was killed. Three others injured. The suspect described as mentally unstable. Police say he stopped his pickup truck in rural out-of-the-way spots in both states randomly asking people questions about honeybees before opening fire.
CHETRY: Extreme weather pounding a city of Phoenix for a second straight day. We have a reporter Mike Watkis of CNN affiliate KTVK. He's forced to take cover when a fast-moving storm gets in the way of his reporting.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MIKE WATKIS, CNN AFFILIATE KTVK: You know, it's hailing. Yes, look at this, James. We've got hail here. Wind is blowing, knocking down road signs.
This is something James. You get underneath there. Just let me just talk while we're -- you just stay there.
Look at this. Look at this. Those pellets of hail are falling like bullets now. This is painful to be out here. And you can see -- look at all the water. That's just in a matter of minutes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERTS: Oh, my goodness.
CHETRY: I don't know who's going to have more fun with that. The late night shows or -- we'll see.
Powerful heavy winds, though, and the hail damaging homes, knocking down power lines, paralyzing operations at Phoenix Sky Harbor Airport. And, of course, everybody always writes in and says the same thing.
We get it. Why are you guys standing out there when you told everybody else to get the heck out? Stay inside. And you guys are out there.
ROBERTS: Perhaps we have new daily show foil.
Let's get a quick check of this morning's weather headlines. Rob Marciano in the extreme weather center for us this morning. And, Rob, you never do anything like that, would you?
ROB MARCIANO, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Never, never. Listen --
CHETRY: Told his cameraman, just go hide. I'll just keep talking.
ROBERTS: While I stand up the hail.
MARCIANO: I'm the biggest chicken out there. I tell you about that.
ROBERTS: You're not a chicken, you just have a lot of good sense.
MARCIANO: I appreciate that, John. But, you know, in his defense, nothing illustrates the weather like somebody getting beaten up by it. And if you're a reporter in Phoenix, you certainly don't have much an opportunity to do any hurricane coverage. That was his opportunity to get out in the element. And it was an impressive storm, I'll say that about it. And we'll probably see more thunderstorms today across that area.
We've got two storms, kind of bookend in the U.S. or keeping things relatively locked up. And one of them is this one behind me. And if you live in the northeast you know what I'm talking about. Very unstable, unsettled weather, I should say, really over the past couple of days and it's going to continue for another day or two. That big red bell (ph) just over D.C. is kind of sitting and spinning and it's giving us problems, that's for sure, and will continue to do that as we go through time.
As far as what's going on in the tropics, we are looking at a subtropical depression. Basically it's going to be our next tropical depression, potentially tropical storm of the season. And I'm going to talk more about that in about 30 minutes. It's that big glob of clouds we showed you yesterday over the eastern Caribbean. We'll talk about its potential track over the next four to five days here in about 30 minutes.
John and Kiran, back up to you.
ROBERTS: Looking forward to it. Thanks, Rob.
MARCIANO: You bet. CHETRY: Well, this was just such a cute video that we had to show it. She's still golden at the age of 88, of course, Betty White. Well, her name is on everybody's lips these days including this adorable little toddler.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Betty White.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Who is that?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Betty White.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Betty White has blond hair.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She does, yes. What do you think about her?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She beautiful.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She is.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Betty White. Betty White. Betty White. Betty White.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHETRY: He's serenading her.
ROBERTS: So what do you think of the kid?
CHETRY: He's so adorable.
ROBERTS: Year and a half, two years old?
CHETRY: He's got to be about two. Yes.
ROBERTS: So there's an age difference of 87 years between the two of them. Give it a few more months, maybe she'll ask him out on a date.
CHETRY: I know.
ROBERTS: What do you think?
CHETRY: Oh, I mean, he's just so cute. He goes her hair is blond. He's obviously watching the red carpet, you know, where she's on. It's just cute.
ROBERTS: Wouldn't it be great if the two of them could actually meet one day?
CHETRY: Yes. We actually reached out to her. They hadn't seen the video yet, her people. But when I was little I was madly in love with George Burns. Remember, "Oh, God!"? "Oh, God!," book 2.
ROBERTS: Yes, of course.
CHETRY: I loved him. I thought he was going to stay the same age and I would eventually catch up. That didn't happen.
ROBERTS: It didn't happen, no, unfortunately. Oh well, life is like that.
The president of Chile declaring the rescue of 33 trapped miners to be imminent. Crews are now within a few hundred feet of breaking through their chamber, 2,000 feet underground. A live report with our Karl Penhaul on the scene straight ahead. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHETRY: Welcome back to the Most News in the Morning. Fourteen minutes past the hour.
It could just be a matter of days now before 33 trapped Chilean miners are rescued. Crews bore through the chamber where the men had been trapped for two months now.
ROBERTS: Three holes are being drilled to try to get them out. Tunnel B is now within a few hundred feet of the trapped miners. We're told that some of the miners have stepped up their exercise regime making sure that they're slim enough to fit into that rescue capsule and physically able to endure the strain of being in it. It's going to take an hour to get them out 2,300 feet.
Our Karl Penhaul is live in Copiapo, Chile for us this morning. And, Karl, does it look like they could at least bore through to the chamber where the miners are by this weekend?
KARL PENHAUL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It depends who you listen to, John, because the drills this week have run into technical problems. You can see the operation going on behind me there. It's around the clock operation. But they keep having to change drill bits. And that plan B has run into an area of very hard rocks. They had to change the drill bit. But by all the prognosis, they've only got about 500 feet to go now, and, if everything goes well, they can cover that distance in three days. But they just need three good days, John, so it certainly could be by this weekend.
CHETRY: You know, what -- some of the other questions that we had is just sort of how this logistically is going to work, Karl. First of all, it's amazing that they're at this point, anyway. I mean, you know, in the beginning, they just - they didn't even know if they'd get this far.
But now, how do they determine who gets out first? How do they, you know, determine logistically how they make this happen?
PENHAUL: Well, first of all, down underground, there's a whole hierarchy that has been established. This has been its own self- governing community, if you like, for the last two months. And so, they will almost certainly want to have a say in who goes first into the - into the rescue cage that's been dubbed "The Phoenix Capsule". But also, the medics on the surface are checking every of - every man's vital signs. They're checking his weight. And they will also have a say. We think that you're the healthiest.
Now, what they've said so far is that right now they think the healthiest men will be brought up first, that way they can get a quick start on the process, and then anybody who's maybe a little bit overweight, anybody who's a little bit nervous, they will bring those up towards the end of the line because they could then be a bump in the system. That could be a slowing down of the - of the whole process.
So it looks like the healthy ones first, and then the more nervous ones second.
ROBERTS: So speak, if you would, Karl, to those two issues that you just brought up. Several of the miners were overweight, and we know how small that little capsule is. Have they lost enough weight to be able to fit into it, all of them?
And then, it's a long ride, 2,300 feet. It should take about an hour to get to the surface, to be trapped in that - that small, little capsule, as they go toward the surface. What are they doing psychologically to make sure that they can withstand that isolation and potential claustrophobia?
PENHAUL: A number of good points there, and certainly on August the 5th, when that mine collapsed, many of these men were well overweight and would never have fitted into that capsule, which is 21 inches in diameter. Most of them is going to have to come up in this kind of rescue position, because it's going to be a pretty tight fit.
But, remember, in the first 17 days, they had no contact with the outside world, and each man had for those 17 days just four cans of tuna, so many of them lost, according to their families, up to 30 pounds. So that, obviously, has helped them fit in the capsule.
And, since then, since they were discovered, they've been having an exercise routine handed down to them by a personal trainer up here on the surface, so the personal trainer -- thanks to medical devices that have been passed down into the mine -- is keeping a check how fat these men are. He'll have them measured every day. He'll check their pulses, he'll check their heart rhythms, and on the basis of that will organize an exercise routine.
One of the men, we're told, is jogging an hour a day up through about mile and a half of tunnels. Some of the others are doing press-ups. They've also had elastic bands, these resistance bands sent down so they can strengthen arm and leg muscles. So the medics keeping a very close eye on that so that they will be in shape for the day.
And then, when they come up, of course, it's a claustrophobic space that they've been brought up - as I say, 21 inches across in that rescue capsule. But they are miners, so they're used to be in enclosed spaces. They're in - they're used to dark spaces. But what they're now saying is that that winch could bring the Phoenix Capsule up at a rate of about 40 miles an hour, and that would bring them from the mine up to the surface in about just 15 minutes. So that, of course, is good news. They'll have less time to endure.
But what the health minister said a few days ago is, he says we're working very hard to make this a comfortable ride for them.
CHETRY: That's - it's just amazing to think of how intricate this operation is and how many things they've thought of along the way and tried to plan for. And so, boy, we wish them the best. That's good news to hear that the rescue is imminent from the Chilean president.
Thanks so much, Karl.
ROBERTS: You know, when you consider the Cue Creek Mine in Pennsylvania where they brought all those miners up through one of those rescue cages, they were only 200 feet underground.
CHETRY: I know. Not only that, but -
ROBERTS: And you saw how traumatized they were.
CHETRY: And there were some who - well, they were also wet. Do you remember that?
ROBERTS: Yes.
CHETRY: They were wet from being underground, being huddled together. Obviously not under there for as long, but there were some who were heavy. I mean, it was a tight squeeze for a few of them.
ROBERTS: Yes. I can't imagine. You know, it's like the ultimate MRI machine, you know? Twenty-three hundred feet underground.
Wow. We do wish them a lot of luck in the next few days.
Coming up on the Most News in the Morning, the foreclosure freeze, some banks halting foreclosures after new questions about how the paperwork was handled. We've got details coming up, straight ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ROBERTS: Twenty-two and a half minutes after the hour now.
Were banks a little too eager to force some borrowers out of their homes? That's what lawmakers across the country want to know after Bank of America became the latest in a string of banks to freeze home foreclosures in 23 states to investigate whether there were flaws in its process.
CHETRY: Joining us now to talk about it is Michael Hudson. He covers business and finance for the Center for Public Integrity, which is a nonprofit journalism group.
Thanks for being here, and welcome. MICHAEL HUDSON, STAFF WRITER, CENTER FOR PUBLIC INTEGRITY: Thanks for having me.
CHETRY: So the banks announces that they're freezing their foreclosures in 23 states that require a judge's approval to move forward in the process.
HUDSON: Right.
CHETRY: So you've got JPMorgan, Allied, Bank of America. What exactly did they do that's leading to this freeze?
HUDSON: Well, you had a situation where you had - in a lot of states you had rocket dockets where - where the lenders were - were rushing to foreclose on people. And, in many cases, the paperwork wasn't - wasn't accurate. It wasn't done well.
You have a former employee of GMAC Ally - Ally Bank who's testified that he was signing off on 400 documents a day, swearing that - that the bank had the right to foreclose on families without reading documents or verifying the information in them. You've also had cases where it's been alleged that - that documents are being back dated.
ROBERTS: So is it - is this just a matter of mistakes being made on these documents or is there something really malicious going on?
HUDSON: Well, I don't know about malicious. But, you know - you know, this is shocking conduct, but it's not surprising for folks who've been following the mortgage industry closely the last few years. Just about every nook and cranny of the mortgage machine has had some significant level of fraud.
You had, you know, on the front end, for example, in the originating of mortgages, you had mortgage professionals using bait and switch salesmanship, forging borrowers' signatures on key documents, creating fake W-2 forms to qualified borrowers.
CHETRY: Right. I mean, giving people loans, knowing full well they would default -
HUDSON: Right.
CHETRY: -- because they just simply didn't have the income.
HUDSON: Right.
CHETRY: And in this situation, is part of it the confusion of - of - as we talked about, these mortgage backed securities were sliced and diced to the point where you wouldn't know - I mean, it would be very hard to unwind even who the originating bank was?
I mean, is part of it just the hassle? They just want to get it - get it over with?
HUDSON: Right. I mean, and part of is it is - is you had this - you know, you go back a generation or two, you had a system where you got a loan from your local bank. You went by every month. You dropped all the payments.
But then, they started, you know, selling and - and trading these - these mortgages like properties and - and a game of Monopoly, and it was sort of like a who's on first? Who actually owns the - owns the mortgage?
CHETRY: Right.
HUDSON: And - and, you know, this actually allowed the players in the system to say if - if a borrower said, oh, I was a victim of predatory lending, it allowed them to say, oh, well not me. That was somebody else. That was that little mortgage broker that's no longer in business.
So now, the same system has - has kind of left us in a situation where there's massive confusion and there's still more incentives to cut corners and break the law.
ROBERTS: And is - is there any recourse for people who have been foreclosed on unfairly? You know, if this - yes, maybe the house has been sold. Somebody else is living in it?
HUDSON: Right. That's the question. I mean, lawyers are going to - going to, you know, be going into court, trying to reverse some of these foreclosures. But it is hard to undo something that's already been done. You know, once the oil's in the water, it's - it's hard to get it out.
I think there'll be some pressure on government officials to come up with some sort of legislation or regulatory actions to reverse some of these already completed foreclosures, or at least pay reparations to - to the families that have been wrongfully foreclosed on.
ROBERTS: Michael Hudson for the Center for Public Integrity. Good to see you this morning.
HUDSON: Great.
ROBERTS: Thanks so much for coming in.
HUDSON: Thanks so much.
CHETRY: Thanks for being with us.
Well, coming up, just a day after would be Times Square Bomber Faisal Shahzad gets life in prison, now another accused terrorist is set to go on trial. This case is seen as a test of the Obama administration's plan to try Guantanamo Bay detainees in civilian courts.
It's 26 minutes past the hour.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(MUSIC) ROBERTS: The trial of a former Gitmo detainee set to begin today. Ahmed Ghailani is the first Gitmo detainee to be tried in a U.S. civilian court.
CHETRY: And he's accused of participating in the bombings of two American embassies in Africa back in 1998. Those attacks killed 224 people.
Deb Feyerick is live at the courthouse in Lower Manhattan with more on how this case may play out.
What is -- first of all, Deb, good to have you with us this morning. What are the specific charges he's accused of?
DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know, it's interesting Ghailani is described as Osama bin Laden's cook, his bodyguard, someone who rose up to the ranks to become a key player in the attack on the U.S. embassy in Darussalam, Tanzania. Specifically, he bought the truck that was used in the bombing as well as bomb components. So, that is what he's being accused of. And prosecutors say they have good evidence, evidence really which they compiled almost 12 years ago when they first tried this case against other people who they successfully convicted.
ROBERTS: So, there's been this running argument as to where these people should be tried. Should they be tried in the military court? Should they be tried in a civilian court? So, this is a real test case for the Obama administration about how it goes forward with these prosecutions.
FEYERICK: You know, absolutely. And this is going to be the first Guantanamo detainee tried in a civilian court as opposed to in front of a military tribunal. And the reason the Obama administration is arguing it should be held in a civilian court is because the civilian court has a track record of successful prosecutions.
The military tribunals -- there's no sense that those convictions if they are convicted would hold up in front of the Supreme Court. That's why they're saying do it in a place where we know what to expect, where we know the rules of law, and where it can be done. Some have argued it's a threat to national security that these people shouldn't be brought here.
But even in a case of Faisal Shahzad yesterday, the White House sent out a statement saying that, in fact, it was a successful conviction, that in fact there was no propaganda for al Qaeda and that a civilian court really is the way to go in terms of these prosecutions. This is not a slam dunk case. Obviously, memories fade, new evidence has to be collected and old evidence has to be sort of reinvigorated. The prosecutors do feel comfortable that this case against Ghailani is a tight one.
CHETRY: All right. Deb Feyerick for us this morning -- thanks for your report. I know the sanitation trucks are out early this morning, as well. Thanks so much, Deb.
ROBERTS: A typically noisy Lower Manhattan this morning.
Crossing the half hour -- top stories this Wednesday morning.
Secret talks reportedly underway between the Afghan government and the Taliban. Even though it is very early on, "The Washington Post" is reporting that negotiations are taking place on a deal that would include some Taliban figures in the government and the withdrawal of U.S. and NATO forces.
CHETRY: Also, dozens more NATO supply trucks were torched this morning on the Pakistani side of the border. They closed the border in protest of a NATO air strike that allegedly killed three of its soldiers. The initial report from NATO on that attack is due out today. The Pakistani Taliban has claimed responsibility for those convoy attacks.
ROBERTS: And could an Obama/Clinton ticket be in the cards for 2012? Reporter Bob Woodward told our John King yesterday that some of Secretary Clinton's advisers see it as a real possibility that she could swap jobs with Vice President Biden.
CHETRY: It's the dream ticket the political insiders have been talking about since '08.
ROBERTS: Our Ed Henry is live at the White House for us this morning.
And, Ed, it certainly got a lot of people talking. We saw a recent poll that showed Democrats' preferences for Hillary Clinton and President Obama. What's the likelihood that this could potentially happen?
ED HENRY, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, it seems very unlikely, John. And I have to tell you, people inside the White House are rolling their eyes at this kind of speculation. They believe it's idle speculation.
You know, first of all, they point out that President Obama has developed a pretty strong working partnership with Joe Biden as vice president, even though they didn't know each other very well back in 2008. But they also know that there are pieces and strands of this story that will just keep it alive in the months ahead.
I mean, first of all, we all know that Joe Biden really preferred to be secretary of state. He wanted to be secretary of state at the very beginning. He was skeptical of being vice president.
Now while no one ever suggested Hillary Clinton desperately wanted to be vice president with those polls you noted suggesting she's deeply popular still in some Democratic circles, could she be talked into this in 2012 to be number two and set her up to be at the top of the ticket potentially in 2016? Who knows?
And finally, a big factor that this is not just an idle reporter throwing out this speculation. It's Bob Woodward. He's got a strong track record. And the fact is this White House cooperated with his most recent book, "Obama's Wars," and has been pretty laudatory and private about how they think this book shows the president to be a strong commander-in-chief.
So, now, when Bob Woodward throws this out there, it's hard for them to completely run away from it. Here's how he put it to John King last night.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, FROM CNN'S JOHN KING, USA)
JOHN KING, "JOHN KING, USA" HOST: You know the talk in town. A lot of people think the president's a little weak going into 2012. He'll have to do a switch there and run with Hillary Clinton as his running mate. In all of these conversations, and all the political conversations, and the asides that you have when you're doing serious research, sometimes you have political asides. Things like that come up?
BOB WOODWARD, ASSOCIATE EDITOR, WASHINGTON POST: It's on the table. And some of Hillary Clinton's advisers see it as a real possibility in 2012. President Obama needs some of the women, Latinos, retirees, that she did so well with during the 2008 primaries. And so, they switch jobs.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HENRY: The key part of that sound bite, though, is Bob Woodward, if you notice, said, some of Hillary Clinton's advisers think it could be a good idea. He didn't say some of President Obama's advisers. That's ultimately what's going to determine, what the president wants, what -- you know, not what people close to Hillary Clinton may think. So, that's a big factor.
And then, finally, you also have to take a look at -- we've heard this speculation many, many times before of presidents. Back in '92, I remember the suggestion that then President Bush would throw Dan Quayle under the bus. And then in 2004, there was talk that George W. Bush would get rid of Dick Cheney. He'd never get reelected with Dick Cheney. Neither case did it happen. Neither case was there a change.
It's extremely rare for a president to change vice presidents in midstream. We've got to remember that, as well, John and Kiran.
CHETRY: Plus, what about -- where does Joe Biden stand? I mean, would he want that?
HENRY: Well -- I mean, at the beginning of the administration back in the campaign, he wanted to be secretary of state. He's always wanted to do that. You remember, he was the chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee back in the Senate. And so, that is in part what will keep the speculation alive, is that secretary of state was always Joe Biden's dream job.
However, things have changed. And you have to remember, now that you've been number two, now that you've got the big mansion there in northwest D.C., the Naval Observatory, do you want to go backwards and become secretary of state? I'm not so sure. ROBERTS: Yes. Ed Henry for us this morning with the speculation -- Ed, thanks so much.
HENRY: Thank you.
ROBERTS: Coming up on the Most News in the Morning: New research suggests that kids who were conceived through in vitro fertilization have an academic edge over their peers. We're digging deeper -- just ahead.
It's 37 minutes after the hour.
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ROBERTS: Nineteen minutes now until the top of the hour.
The man who pioneered in vitro fertilization more than 30 years ago is now a Nobel laureate. Because of Robert Edwards' work, millions of infertile couples have been able to have children over the years. A new research out suggests that kids conceived through in vitro fertilization score better than their peers on their intelligence tests.
Joining us now to talk about is Dr. James Grifo. He's the programs director of the NYU Fertility Center.
So, this was the University of Iowa that did this, took a look at 400 kids who were conceived through in vitro fertilization, scored them against other kids who weren't conceived through IVF in the same socioeconomic background, their peers basically, and found that the IVF kids scored better on intelligence tests. Do we know why?
DR. JAMIE GRIFO, PROGRAM DIRECTOR AT NYU FERTILITY CENTER: Well, we don't. It's probably more environment than anything. And it's reassuring that IVF doesn't cause problems because there's always been those concerns.
ROBERTS: Because that's what initially what they were looking, right, was to see if they score as well, and they found they scored better.
GRIFO: Right. I mean, there's always been concern that these babies will have problems. And the reality is, the more we learn about IVF babies, we find very few problems with them. Most of them associated with multiple gestation and the complication of pregnancy.
But this intelligence thing, I mean, I don't think intelligence necessarily is a genetic thing. It's partly environmental. It's partly what happens in utero, what happens in the first few years of life. And I think parents who struggle to have a child have a newfound respect for what a privilege it is to be a parent. And I think they may take their job a little more seriously and, therefore, their children benefit. ROBERTS: Really, so after the child is born, maybe they pay a little more attention, they're a little more engaged than a child who was born conceived through natural processes?
GRIFO: That would be my theory to explain it because I don't think there's anything that unique about IVF that would make the babies, quote, "better."
ROBERTS: The researchers did point to other potential factors. The age of the parents, the educational level of the parents, lower divorce rates among couples who have IVF children. Could that potentially play into it, do you think?
GRIFO: Oh, sure. I mean, a more stable environment, a more loving environment, I think, is a fertile ground for a child to do well and develop intelligence.
ROBERTS: Fertile ground that's important.
GRIFO: Yes.
ROBERTS: You know, they also looked at whether or not there was a difference between using embryos that had been just created or embryos that have been frozen and stored and they found no difference.
GRIFO: No difference.
ROBERTS: So, for people who are -- there are a lot of people who store embryos for a number of years wondering, you know, when are we going to have a child? They don't have anything to worry about?
GRIFO: Apparently not, at least in terms of intelligence. I mean, all the data suggests that these techniques are very safe. There are some issues, but they're relatively minor. And there's over 4 million babies in the world now because of this technology. This is reassuring for parents who've gone through this.
ROBERTS: You mentioned multiples. And the study found that singletons, single children, scored higher in intelligence tests than twins or triplets did, but that all of those children, that entire group still scored higher than their non-IVF peers.
GRIFO: Right. Even IVF triplets did better than average. But there was not statistically significant, but this trend toward lesser intelligence. And that's because we weren't designed to have three children at once. We were designed to have a singleton and there are more risks with singletons, there are more risks with twins than -- there are more risks with triplets.
ROBERTS: But if it's environment, as you say, could it potentially be that if you have twins or triplets, parents can't pay that much attention to each child?
GRIFO: It could be that, as well. So, these are all good questions that need to be addressed. ROBERTS: So, this would seem to be a benefit, a side benefit of IVF. But we've heard other studies that show that potentially, there are some down sides, like a 42 percent increase risk for cancer over a lifetime. Is there a trade off when parents think about doing IVF?
GRIFO: Well, of course, there's always the concern about risks. But when you really look at all the body of evidence, the risks are very, very small. And I think most parents who choose to have a child using this technology want a child so badly they're willing to take some risk. And the reality is, I don't think they're taking that much risk at all.
ROBERTS: So, Robert Edwards, now a Nobel laureate. It's interesting departure for the Nobel Prize Committee because they went with somebody who is really involved in the clinical side as opposed to the research side.
But compare where we were back then just trying to create a baby to where we are now where we've got, you know, couples who are both infertile, using a donor egg, a donor sperm, and gestational carrier can have a child, same sex couples can have a child, you can freeze eggs. I mean, you were accused of playing God 30 years ago, where is this going now?
GRIFO: Well, we're daily accused of playing God, but we're just trying to help patients with clinical problems and solve them. And that's what Dr. Edwards was doing back then and highly criticized him and his colleague, Dr. Steptoe. It took 40 attempts before they had the first IVF pregnancy.
And the first 2 IVF pregnancies, one was a miscarriage and one was an ectopic. If that happen in today's environment, they never would have been able to keep going. It just shows that with a passion and the vision, you can make a difference in the world. And thankfully, they did. And thankfully, it's finally recognized, proudly about 25 years too late, but better late than never.
ROBERTS: Certainly, a lot of people in this world would not have children if it weren't for that process, but again, a lot of controversy.
GRIFO: It affects so many people. I mean, 4 million babies is not just 4 million people. There are families around those babies that those lives have changed because of this technology.
ROBERTS: A fascinating field also that remains controversial.
GRIFO: And always will.
ROBERTS: Always good to have you in. Thanks so much for coming in, James.
GRIFO: Thanks.
ROBERTS: Kiran.
KIRAN CHETRY, CNN ANCHOR: In 10 minutes, forget the traditional brick home, meet the couple that's building homes out of trash.
First, though, still to come on the Most News in the Morning, Rob's going to be along with the travel forecast. We got some extreme weather yesterday. Is it shaping up to be a better day across the nation? He'll tell us. It's 46 minutes past the hour.
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CHETRY: It's 49 minutes past the hour. Time for us to get a check of this morning's weather headlines. We got Rob Marciano. He's in the Extreme Weather Center for us today. And you're back out in the Caribbean. We got a tropical depression.
ROB MARCIANO, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Yes, we do. This thing, we've been talking about it for a couple of days. Guys, good morning, again. Actually, they're naming this a subtropical depression, which means as, you know, we're getting towards the time of year and its location where it's not completely tropical basically. It's really long and the circulation is really wide, but nonetheless, you know, it'll probably become an official tropical depression and then possibly even a tropical storm.
It's about 200 miles north of Puerto Rico. There you see it on the satellite picture, the official forecast track. We don't really have to worry too much about it. They do think it'll become a tropical storm here with winds of about 50 miles an hour. Things are fairly well protected as far as what we're doing with the U.S.
We have 14 named storms, so far, seven hurricanes -- these are all above average and pretty close to where the forecast was, although a little bit below that. We've been very lucky as far as how many have come towards the U.S. Most have been steered out to sea or stayed below the south because of the strong jet stream and kind of a road block set up in the atmosphere. So, we'll take that and hopefully our luck will continue through the rest of this hurricane season.
All right. Showers across parts of the northeast continue to be unsettled weather from New York to Boston. Boston, it looks like Eastern New England is where most of the heavier rain is this morning as compared to yesterday. Still chilly across the south parts of Kentucky and Tennessee under frost advisories. Temperatures there close to the 30s, and, still, unsettled out west.
We showed you that video out of Phoenix. Let's show you some video out of the Sierras where, yes, it was coming down yesterday as far as some snow. Some of the higher elevations seeing a few inches of snow. There's El Dorado, California and looking too shabby out there. We're getting to the time of year where snow starts to pile up in the mountains, and hopefully, we can get rid of these tropical storms.
At least, we will officially over the next month and a half, but we still have to deal with them from time to time. This one doesn't look like it's going to bother us. John and Kiran, back up to you.
ROBERTS: We did pretty well this season.
MARCIANO: Yes.
ROBERTS: No hurricanes hit land in the United States, right?
MARCIANO: Very, very lucky considering how active it's been. So, we'll take it.
CHETRY: Thanks, Rob.
MARCIANO: All right, guys.
And we're following your top stories just minutes away, including eyewitness to a mauling. This couple happened to be rolling when they were at a circus show in the Ukraine and that lion went on the attack. Another one joined them. They're going to join us to tell us more about what it was like to be there.
ROBERTS: Yes. What's interesting too is that that was the second attack of that performance.
And more yapping less napping. Cell phones on planes becoming more of a reality this morning. Those stories and more coming up beginning at the top of the hour.
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CHETRY: Welcome back to the Most News in the Morning. If you went to as many yard sales as my mother went to when I was little, you know the phrase, one man's trash is another man's treasure. Holds true.
ROBERTS: Absolutely.
CHETRY: In this case, for one couple you're about to meet, they're taking it to a whole new level.
ROBERTS: Yes. They're turning things that you might normally throw away into new homes. Here's Ed Lavandera with today's "Edge of Discovery."
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ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): License plate roofs, picture frame ceilings, wine cork floors.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It feels really good. It's really cushy.
LAVANDERA: Those are a few of the corky in-home treasures Dan Phillips is designing from trash.
DAN PHILLIPS, FOUNDER, THE PHOENIX COMMOTION: I'd always suspected that one could build a house out of the whatever went into the landfill.
LAVANDERA: Now, Phillips is turning that hunch into a business. MARSHA PHILLIPS, WIFE OF DAN PHILLIPS: I think it's definitely worth trying.
LAVANDERA: His wife, Marsha, a retired art teacher lends a creative hand, but clients don't have much say. The designs grow primarily from the building materials. It's a creative equation that keeps costs way down. Phillips who has to have all his projects approved by state inspectors builds exclusively for artist, low-income families, and single moms, and he encourages many of his tenants to be to help construct their future homes.
PHILLIPS: You protect it because you know how many times you hit your thumb and how dirty and sweaty you got.
LAVANDERA: Christy Stevens and her two sons helped remodel this 900-square-foot home. Now, they're living in it paying $368 a month.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm very, very proud of this work. It's probably the hardest work I've ever done.
LAVANDERA: Ed Lavandera, CNN.
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ROBERTS: $368 a month, that's good.
CHETRY: That's amazing.
ROBERTS: For a whole house. Yes, cool stuff.
Top stories coming your way right after the break. Stay with us.
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