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American Morning
E-mails Reveal Rush to Judgment in Sherrod Case; Delaware Senate Candidate O'Donnell Grants Interview to National Media; The Lennon Legacy; Toxic Sludge Spreading; The Consequences of Coal Ash
Aired October 08, 2010 - 06:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JOHN ROBERTS, CNN ANCHOR: Good Friday morning to you. Thanks so much for joining us. It's the 8th of October. I'm John Roberts.
KIRAN CHETRY, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Kiran Chetry. Glad you're with us. We want to get you caught up on what happened overnight.
We have a CNN election exclusive for you. Catching up with the most talked about candidate of the midterm election who doesn't do a lot of talking herself, at least to the national media. Delaware GOP Senate nominee Christine O'Donnell saying that she wouldn't do any more national interviews, but our Jim Acosta did get her to answer a few questions.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHRISTINE O'DONNELL (R), DELAWARE SENATE CANDIDATE: The U.N. right now is considering some massive reforms, massive policies that will severely restrict our Second Amendment right. When I go to Washington, D.C., whether it's on the Second Amendment or any other issue, I will fight to make sure that we don't continue to cede more of our sovereignty over to the United Nations.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHETRY: Well, he will have much more of that exclusive interview just ahead.
ROBERTS: I guess he called Dave, and Dave came through.
The latest on that mystery on Falcon Lake. A dangerous area that straddles the U.S./Mexico border. The woman who reported her husband was shot in the head by Mexican pirates is denying that she had anything to do with it. Tiffany Hartley telling CNN she might agree to take a lie detector test. What police are saying today about her story and what the Mexican government is doing.
CHETRY: And the toxic red sludge is spreading. It's the spill that's killed four people and hit at least seven towns in Hungary, and now making its way down Europe's second largest river, the Danube. Officials calling it an ecological disaster. We're live in Hungary with the desperate effort to stop it.
ROBERTS: But first, new e-mails are shedding light on why the Department of Agriculture threw Shirley Sherrod under the bus so quickly. You remember Sherrod was working for the U.S. Department of Agriculture in Georgia when a portion of a speech that she gave was posted on a blogger's Web site, a blogger who took her words out of context.
CHETRY: Our Ed Henry is live at the White House this morning. And, Ed, it looks like initially the Department of Agriculture wanted to be careful with how they handled this. Now that these documents are out, we're getting more of a look at exactly the timeline and what happened.
ED HENRY, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Kiran. We got these documents late last night. We've been poring through them overnight. And what's interesting and really fascinating is this is our first look inside the Department of Agriculture in those first desperate hours when they learned about the speech and they, you know, sort of were very worried, panicked at first that this was going to be some sort of a major scandal.
But you're right, there are e-mails that we've obtained. We've got these through Freedom of Information Act. CNN and other news organizations petitioned for these a couple months back. They finally came in late yesterday. And there are some e-mails between Agriculture Department officials suggesting that while they were worried about this story blowing up, they did exercise caution at first saying, look, you can't just take a snippet of this video of Shirley Sherrod. You've got to see it in its full context.
Take a look at this one. 3:06 p.m., shortly after this first started breaking, one USDA official e-mailed, quote, "We need to make sure someone has seen the video. I am quick to jump to conclusions but want to be certain it is what it is said to before I tell the secretary." Secretary Tom Vilsack at agriculture, of course. So you can see right there, there was a lot of caution being exercised. Nobody was trying to force Shirley Sherrod out right away. They wanted to see the entire video, but something turned rather quickly late in the afternoon, John.
ROBERTS: So what was it that happened over the course of the afternoon? And suddenly this became an urgent, urgent matter to get her resignation?
HENRY: Yes, and what's fascinating is this is an incomplete picture. We're getting more of the picture what was going on behind the scenes. But, for example, there's still a lot left out about what kind of contact there may have been with the White House. Was there political pressure to force Shirley Sherrod out? Because take a look at this e- mail exchange, you know, about 3:06 p.m. where agriculture officials, one of them said, quote, "We need to take immediate action." Another person said "The S is in the secretary absolutely sick and mad over the S Sherrod issue. He wants her immediately on administrative leave. Another person e-mails shortly thereafter. "Concur, she should be fired."
What turned in there? Was there pressure from the White House? We don't know. There's a lot of documents that we did obtain from the Agriculture Department that are simply redacted, blacked out. Maybe for privacy issues, we don't get the full picture. But there is a little hint when there's one document showing about 8:30 on that first night when the story broke, it says Rahm is about to talk on the phone with Secretary Vilsack, as in then-White House Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel.
What did they say in that phone call? We still don't know. And was there other contact between this White House and the Agriculture Department that might have pushed Shirley Sherrod out? Very fascinating story still unfolding, John.
CHETRY: Yes. The other fascinating part is that Shirley Sherrod said, and she told us when she was here but she also indicated it in writing that she was being totally misrepresented. She referenced the Tea Party and she said that, you know, she's putting her resignation in but that she will fight to clear her name.
HENRY: Yes.
CHETRY: A little bit of a warning even in the resignation that she wasn't going to allow this, to allow her good name to be besmirched.
HENRY: Sure. And you're right because the context here, of course, Andrew Breitbart, the conservative blogger, was posting this video, a part of the video selectively edited and then it was going to maybe be on FOX News and other media organizations. And that's why there was pressure on the Agriculture Department to do something, do something quickly. But you're right, Shirley Sherrod was pleading with these Agriculture Department officials.
Look, this is just a snippet. You're not seeing the whole picture. This is something that happened a long time ago, not in the Obama administration, and she ended up helping, you'll remember, the white farmer and his family that she initially didn't want to help. And so there was a lot more to the story and that context was missed early on, John.
ROBERTS: As you said, a case unfolding this morning. Ed Henry at the White House. Thanks, Ed.
CHETRY: Meantime, the Texas woman who claims that her husband was shot in the head last week by Mexican pirates when they were jet skiing on a lake says that she might agree to take a lie detector test if people keep doubting her story. Tiffany Hartley insists that she and her husband David were jet skiing when they were approached by three boats. The incident taking place on Falcon Lake which straddles the Mexico/Texas border. It's a prime fishing spot that's become a hot spot, gaining a dangerous reputation for its pirate-infested waters on the Mexican side. So dangerous, in fact, that Mexican law enforcement actually refuse to patrol it at night. Tiffany Hartley telling CNN's Anderson Cooper last night, she understands that she may have to prove something to those who think she's lying.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: We heard a sheriff say that if you wanted to take a polygraph test to back up the story that he'd support that. Is that something you'd want to do?
TIFFANY HARTLEY, WIFE OF DAVID HARTLEY: Possibly. But I don't really think I need to because I know my story and I know what I -- you know, what the story is. But if, you know, that's what the authorities think I need to do, then that might be an option.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHETRY: Mexican authorities are searching for Hartley's body despite fears of a possible ambush. Tiffany Hartley says she believes that her husband's attackers took his body after he was shot in the head and may have dragged it to shore.
ROBERTS: Also new this morning, a jailed Chinese dissident is awarded this year's Nobel Peace Prize. The Nobel Committee honoring Liu Xiaobo for his, quote, "long and non-violent struggle" for fundamental human rights in China. He is the first Chinese citizen to receive the Nobel Peace Prize. Liu Xiaobo who is 54 years old is in prison for trying to bring about political reform in China.
CHETRY: In Chile, one of the drills bored into the earth could reach 33 trapped miners, is expected to break through by tomorrow. And once that happens, it will be another 10 days they're estimating before all of the men are actually brought to the surface. Engineers need to figure out if a two-foot-wide rescue shaft is stable or if it needs to be lined with a steel casing to prevent a collapse.
ROBERTS: The FCC taking aim at cell phone bill shock. This week Verizon Wireless admitted charging some 15 million customers for data services that they did not want. The "Washington Post" reporting the agency will unveil a proposal next week to protect consumers. Cell phone carriers will have to notify users by text message of sudden spikes in their bills.
Let's get a quick check of this morning's weather headlines. Let's text over to our Rob Marciano who is in the weather center in Atlanta this morning. Hey, Rob.
ROB MARCIANO, AMS METEOROLOGIST: What have you got going up there? You've got a little Peter Brady thing going.
ROBERTS: A little what?
CHETRY: He said Peter Brady.
MARCIANO: When it's time to change, you've got to rearrange. It sounds like you've got a cold in your voice.
ROBERTS: Yes, I do. I think I'm going through puberty again. My voice keeps going from low to high, and low to high. I don't know.
MARCIANO: Well, it's a fun time.
ROBERTS: Oh, yes. You know, if I could get the years back, I'd certainly, you know, appreciate the opportunity.
MARCIANO: Wouldn't we all? One more time around.
Good morning, guys. Hey, it's Friday. We have finally changed the weather pattern somewhat. And we're looking at a drastic improvement for folks who live east of the Mississippi, especially where comfortably cooler and drier air is expected to roll into the northeast today with some sunshine. And warm air on the backside of this high will be rolling up the central part of the country with record-breaking high temperatures, probably. In Kansas City, 87 in mid-October. Yes, that's toasty. More on that plus what's going on with tropical storm Otto a little bit later on in the program.
John, Kiran, back up to you.
ROBERTS: All right. Thanks, Rob.
CHETRY: We'll pay attention. Thanks, Rob.
Well, catching up with Christine O'Donnell. We got Jim Acosta who yesterday she promised that she would talk.
ROBERTS: Yes. She said call Dave, and he did.
CHETRY: And he did and she delivered. This is the Republican Senate nominee from Delaware who said she was finished talking to the national media.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHRISTINE O'DONNELL (R), DELAWARE SENATE CANDIDATE: When I go to Washington, D.C., whether it's on the Second Amendment or any other issue, I will fight to make sure that we don't continue to cede more of our sovereignty over to the United Nations.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHETRY: So they talked about everything from gun rights, to health care, to the witch controversy. Jim will join us with more of the exclusive interview next. It's nine minutes past the hour.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHETRY: Welcome back to the Most Politics in the Morning now. For the first time since the morning after the primary, the Republican Senate nominee from Delaware, Christine O'Donnell was talking to us.
ROBERTS: She has told the national media, no more interviews, but our Jim Acosta undaunted caught up with her in Delaware yesterday and he joins us live from Washington now.
You're telling us yesterday, she said call Dave. Did you call Dave?
JIM ACOSTA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Exactly. I did call Dave. And just to set this up. As you know, yesterday morning on AMERICAN MORNING, we played our piece basically about this event that happened on Wednesday night in Newark, Delaware, where we caught up with Christine O'Donnell and reminded her that she had told CNN that she would continue to do interviews with us after her primary victory and she hasn't really done that. So we reminded her of that. And so she said call Dave, call my press guy, Dave, and we'll set it up. And she delivered.
So we went over to her headquarters yesterday and asked her about a variety of subjects. Obviously, we talked to her about those tapes that have appeared on "Real Time with Bill Maher" on HBO. But we also wanted to talk to her about the issues like health care reform and also we wanted to delve into some provocative comments that she made about gun control and whether or not the United Nations might be coming after your guns. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ACOSTA: Let me ask you about health care because you said you would vote to repeal Obamacare, as you call it and as everybody calls it. Let me ask you about the health care reform law because there are protections in there for consumers that a lot of people, even some Republicans say are very important. Such as, the law would ban insurance companies from denying coverage to children with pre- existing conditions. Would you scrap that, as well?
CHRISTINE O'DONNELL (R), DELAWARE SENATE CANDIDATE: What I want to do is create real health care reform. Things like that are absolutely crucial. We have to make sure that people with pre-existing conditions get the coverage and care that they need.
ACOSTA: So you would keep that?
O'DONNELL: But what this -- I want to scrap the bill and start over with real reform, piece by piece. Nobody's disputing that we need health care reform, but this bill is a massive government takeover of the health care system that gives the government way too much power. Uncle Sam has no business coming into the examination room, getting between you and your doctor. And that's what this bill does. We need to repeal it so that we can reenact real reform.
ACOSTA: Is that even realistic? Because I know the Republicans say we want to repeal the bill. But the president would have to sign any bill that you pass through the Congress. So isn't repealing health care reform really unrealistic?
O'DONNELL: That kind of throw in the towel mentality is what got us to this mess that we're in in the first place. Repealing Obamacare is absolutely realistic. I heard a statistic this morning that one out of four Democrats are for full repeal of Obamacare.
ACOSTA: So you think you can get Democrats to go onboard and perhaps override a veto? That's what you're saying.
O'DONNELL: Well, not even this -- here's why I think it's realistic. A couple things. Number one, a lot of Democrats are coming forward saying we want to start over. We want to scrap this bill. We all made a mistake. We didn't read it. We didn't know about the unintended consequences. As elected officials, our first priority needs to be taking care of the most vulnerable in our society. So we do need real health care reform. But, if the House and the Senate passes a bill to fully repeal Obamacare so that we can clear the way to start over with true reform that helps the most vulnerable and then the president goes and vetoes that bill when the will of the people has been made very clear, if Barack Obama vetoes that, the year before his reelection, he's setting himself up to be very vulnerable. And I've seen many Hillary for president ads running.
So if - if he chooses to thumb his nose at - at the will of the American people and ram this - this unrealistic, unconstitutional bill down America's throats, then there will be consequences politically for Obama.
ACOSTA: Let me ask you about gun control, because you ran an event today with a gun rights organization who endorsed you. And you said at the event, quote, "I will make sure the U.N. doesn't supersede our rights as well." Are you saying that the United Nations has the ability to supersede the laws of the United States, take gun rights away from people?
O'DONNELL: The United Nations does not have the ability unless our U.S. Senate cedes that sovereignty to the United Nations. There are -
ACOSTA: But that would never happen, right?
O'DONNELL: Well, there are - the U.N. right now is considering some massive reforms, massive policies that will severely restrict our second amendment right. When I go to Washington, D.C., whether it's on the second amendment or any other issue, I will fight to make sure that we don't continue cede more of our sovereignty over to the United Nations.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROBERTS: Where did that conversation come from, Jim?
ACOSTA: Yes. I mean, it's - it's kind of strange. She was at a - an event yesterday with a gun rights group in Delaware. It was at a gun range, as a matter of fact, and we were talking about that yesterday morning. I think John - John, you had said make sure you duck when you're there.
ROBERTS: Well, I just said be careful.
ACOSTA: Yes. Exactly. That's right.
She - she basically was talking about something that you hear on the far right of the gun right movement, which is that in some future scenario the United Nations could somehow supersede the authority of the United States and impose its will on the American people and take away their second amendment rights.
That is never going to happen in this country, but she was obviously trying to talk to those concerns in that community to try to go after a few more votes among gun rights enthusiasts. It's obviously not realistic.
CHETRY: Well, it's interesting that you got a chance to talk to her. That's one of the issues, but she talked much more, and so we're going to play a little bit of it later.
Jim, thanks so much.
ROBERTS: Good one, Jim (ph).
CHETRY: Another question that Jim asked her was about another Tea Party candidate that's in a little bit of hot water with Todd Palin.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ACOSTA: Is - is Sarah Palin qualified to be president?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHETRY: That was the question that was asked of Rick Scott, and his answer is what got her - got him into hot water.
How did Christine O'Donnell answer? Well, we'll find out, coming up in the next hour of AMERICAN MORNING.
ROBERTS: And don't forget, next Wednesday Delaware Senate candidates Chris Coons and Christine O'Donnell are going to face off in a debate moderated by our own Wolf Blitzer. You can see it live, right here on CNN.
Plus, complete coverage from Delaware right here on AMERICAN MORNING.
CHETRY: A housing crisis turns terrifying for one woman after her bank hired someone to literally break into her house and change the locks. They say it was a misunderstanding, but she says, wait a minute. My home wasn't even in foreclosure.
So how did this happen? We're going to talk to her next.
It's 18 minutes past the hour.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHETRY: Twenty-one minutes past the hour right now.
You're not going to believe this next story. Nancy Jacobini was home alone in Florida when she heard what she thought was an intruder at the front door. There was no knock, she wasn't expecting anyone, and so she grabbed her cell phone, locked herself in the bathroom and called 911.
Let's listen.
(BEGIN AUDIO TAPE)
NANCY JACOBINI, BANK HIRED SOMEONE TO BREAK INTO HOME: My alarm is going off. My alarm is going off. DISPATCH 1: Ma'am, I've got deputies coming.
JACOBINI: Thank you.
DISPATCH 2: OK. So there's a male outside and inside? Is that -
DISPATCH 1: They've gotten in.
JACOBINI: I don't know. I don't know. I'm locked in my bathroom. I don't know.
I just know somebody is breaking - somebody broke into my house.
(END AUDIO TAPE)
CHETRY: Well, as it turns out, the man who broke the lock on her front door was actually a contractor hired by her bank. It's a procedure typically used to secure a foreclosed home. The thing is, is Nancy's home wasn't foreclosed.
Joining us now is Nancy Jacobini, along with her attorney, Matt Weidner. Thanks to both of you for being with us this morning.
JACOBINI: Thank you.
MATT WEIDNER, NANCY JACOBINI'S ATTORNEY: Good morning.
JACOBINI: Good morning.
CHETRY: Nancy, you could hear your voice shaking. I mean, I can't imagine how terrifying that must have been, thinking that somebody was breaking into your house.
After the police got there, what did you find out? What -what happened after that 911 call?
JACOBINI: Well, when the police arrived, of course, they had to search the house to make certain that nobody else was in it. And then, one thing led to another, and then we basically found out that the gentleman was there to change the locks on my home.
CHETRY: And who was he sent by?
JACOBINI: He was sent by the bank, Chase - Chase Bank, to change the locks without my permission.
CHETRY: You say that you were about three to four months behind on your mortgage payments, but you had been working diligently with the bank to actually get a mortgage modification. And you -
JACOBINI: Yes. Absolutely.
CHETRY: And you didn't receive any notifications about any impending foreclosure?
JACOBINI: I did not. I did not receive any information at all in reference to a foreclosure.
CHETRY: So basically you're sitting there and you have no idea if somebody's breaking into your home to attack you at this point?
JACOBINI: Exactly. I knew that the aggressiveness was getting very severe. I - I was very much afraid. It was a rainy day at the time and I thought that the person was taking advantage of the weather. There were going to be no witnesses.
And this person may have a gun, a knife. I - I had no idea what was going to happen. I didn't know if there was one person. I didn't know if there were two people. All I knew is that my life was in danger.
CHETRY: It must have just been simply terrifying. How the bank explains this is away is quite interesting.
We're going to take a quick break. When we come back, we're going to hear from you and also from your attorney about what the bank is saying to defend itself after this happened.
It's 24 minutes after the hour. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHETRY: Welcome back to the Most News in the Morning.
Now, before the break, we were talking to Nancy Jacobini and her attorney, Matt Weidner. They join us now again.
Nancy was just sitting at home when somebody was breaking into her house. She called 911. It turns out it was a contractor hired by your bank even though you were not in foreclosure.
Have they apologized to the - to you, Nancy, for what you went through?
JACOBINI: No. Actually, I purposely retrieved both of my messages last night to really, really try to decipher every single word, you know, while I was in private just to see if I overlooked something. And no, there was no apology on either one of those messages.
CHETRY: What'd they say?
JACOBINI: It was basically an introduction of who the gentleman was, and he had mentioned that he was calling because he had received an escalation to his office and that he was calling about the mix-up in reference to the work preservation work order.
And then the other message was because Matt had returned his phone call in response to that particular phone call, and then the second message simply stated an introduction, of course, of who he was. And that they were basically, you know, playing phone tag and that he was just calling in reference to, you know, this situation. But -
CHETRY: But let me ask you, Nancy - JACOBINI: I do not hear an apology.
CHETRY: OK. So you're saying you did not get an apology on either one of those calls.
Matt, what's your take on what - what went on here and what should happen moving forward?
WEIDNER: This is an absolutely terrifying phenomenon. Unfortunately, what happened to Nancy is not at all unique. This is happening all across the country to people just like Nancy. It's so important to emphasize that she's not in foreclosure at all. So there was absolutely no warning.
Now, I've made contact with them several times and haven't gotten any credible apology at all. In fact, my last phone call yesterday, they were still trying to confirm whether power was in her name -
CHETRY: Right.
WEIDNER: -- totally irrelevant. But she's been in this house for 20 years and power has been in her name that entire time.
CHETRY: That's the unbelievable part is how long you - you were living in this house and, you know, the fact that you were not even in foreclosure.
But here's what JPMorgan Chase says, they say - they say on properties that are delinquent in payments that they can regularly visit to inspect them. And if the property's found to be opened, they can work to secure it even if it's not in foreclosure.
What do you think of that?
WEIDNER: I want to take exception to that. That's the big problem that's happening all across this country. These banks are running wild. It's the Wild West out there.
Here's a house that's perfectly secured. Her locks are secured. She's got an alarm system on it and power in. And so these banks all across the country are using that excuse as a justification for violating fundamental rights.
It's got to stop. America's got to wake up and say we're not going to take this anymore.
CHETRY: Are you suing?
WEIDNER: We are in negotiations right now. But, frankly, this is more than suing. This is about getting this issue in front of the American people so that the American people demand that this stops.
Ultimately, we do want this in front of a jury, because we want Americans all across this country to stand up and say what happened to Nancy can't happen again, and yet our banks are just bulldozing all across Americans, all across America, bulldozing over them. KIRAN CHETRY, CNN ANCHOR: It's really quite shocking this happened to you, Nancy. And we're certainly sorry. Please keep us posted on any more information that you get from the bank and how this turns out.
JACOBINI: Thank you very much.
CHETRY: Nancy, thanks so much. Matt Weidner, thanks for joining us, as well.
WEIDNER: Thank you.
JOHN ROBERTS, CNN ANCHOR: Crossing the half hour now. It's time for this morning's top stories.
New internal e-mails detailed a Department of Agriculture's rush to oust Shirley Sherrod after a conservative blogger posted an edited speech that falsely gave the impression the impression she discriminated against a white farmer. In one e-mail, an official travelling with Agriculture Secretary Tom Vilsack writes that the secretary is, quote, "absolutely sick and mad over the Sherrod issue and wants her on administrative leave immediately." Vilsack eventually apologized and Sherrod declined a new job with the government.
CHETRY: CNN exclusive now with a candidate who said that she wasn't going to be doing any more interviews with the national media. Delaware GOP Senate nominee Christine O'Donnell did decide to sit down and talk to our Jim Acosta. She said that she would scrap the health care law and President Obama would pay a political price if he vetoed the effort to do that.
In the next hour, we're going to hear what she thinks of Sarah Palin, whether or not she's qualified to be president.
ROBERTS: And it looks like the surface of mars. Red toxic mud is overtaking town after town in Hungary. Emergency officials say the chemical spill has killed four people now. One man told the "A.P." that it burned his uncle to the bone. And now, it has hit the second largest river on the continent, the Danube. It could endanger drinking water supplies in five countries downstream.
CHETRY: Nic Robertson is on the phone this morning from Hungary.
What is it like to be there? What are these people going through right now? The pictures are just devastating.
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (via telephone): You know, we talk about people who have burns all the way through to their bones, probably people caught in the initial sort of tidal surge of that toxic flood. But we've talked to people who are cleaning their homes -- just cleaning their homes. And when their hands get in contact with the sludge even for a short time, they're getting burns on their hands.
I'm standing here looking at a river now. This is the river that's speeding towards the Danube and it's still heavily contaminated. And the reason I can see that is there's a fresh water spring that flows into it at the site -- pure, clean water. And as soon as it enters the stream, it stays clear for a few inches and then it's engulfed by this sort of red, murky river.
So this -- the toxins are still flooding down towards the river. And we're hearing from Greenpeace, the activist group, says that they believe the government figures on how clean and pure the water is, they say the government figures are wrong. The situation is far worse than the government's admitting -- John, Kiran.
ROBERTS: Nic, what exactly is in this toxic sludge that's so deadly and so devastating to people that they get burned by it?
ROBERTSON: Well, it's got a high alkalinity level, a high pH level. That was one of the initial problems, but -- which has -- which causes this burning nature. Unlike an acid, it doesn't scold and burn you immediately. These burns will come up over a period of days. But it also has other poisons and other, what are known as heavy metals. These are poisons to the body, cadmium, chromium.
We're also been told by Greenpeace, again, these are their figures not the government figures, and they say, over all, in all these toxic materials, they're estimating over 50 tons of arsenic, which is a well-known poison even in tiny quantities. So, there are a lot of very damaging chemicals mixed up in this -- in this toxic, John.
CHETRY: You know, a lot people are wondering, Nic, just how in the heck this was able to happen. How was this allowed to happen?
ROBERTSON: Well, a lot of people who live locally to the aluminum plant say this was an accident waiting to happen, that the plant was built in the '70s during the socialist era. There was less concern about the community, more concern about making aluminum. And they say that this sludge pit was never strong enough, was always -- they felt it was always an accident waiting to happen.
Hungary for the past month has had an extraordinary amount of rain and that appears to have weakened the walls. The company themselves that produces the aluminum, they say they passed every safety check they've had. Even two weeks ago, they had a safety check and they say they passed it.
So, it's really a matter of context right now. The government, of course, has launched an investigation. The police are pursuing that right now -- John, Kiran.
CHETRY: Nic Robertson for us there in Hungary witnessing that firsthand -- thank you.
Well, thousands of Americans living near coal-fired power plants fear that their air and their water is contaminated by toxic ash. Now the EPA is considering cracking down, but there could be a backlash, lost jobs.
Carol Costello takes a look -- coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ROBERTS: Thirty-eight and a half minutes after the hour. Right now, the federal government is considering a crackdown on hundreds of coal- fired power plants around the country. That's welcome news to thousands of people who live near those facilities and claim that their air and water has been contaminated by toxic coal ash.
CHETRY: Yes. If officials decide to label coal ash hazardous, there could be unintended consequences, a backlash. It could put people out of business.
Carol Costello is back with us this morning with an A.M. original. It's a story you'll see only on AMERICAN MORNING.
You would think, hey, if it's toxic, call it toxic. Why not?
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It's so much more complicated than that, unfortunately. The EPA is now deciding whether to qualify coal ash as hazardous waste. Some say that's a no-brainer, after all, coal ash contains potentially cancer-causing substance like arsenic and cadmium.
But to others, it's not that simple. If coal ash is classified as hazardous, you'll notice it right in your electricity bill.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CHUCK NEWELL, NATIONAL GYPSUM PLANT: See, this (INAUDIBLE) is coming out of the dryer or the kiln.
COSTELLO: Chuck Newell runs the National Gypsum Plant in Shippingport, Pennsylvania. His company makes dry wall. In fact, National Gypsum's dry wall could be in your home right now.
(on camera): So, how fast is this moving? How much product can it make in a certain amount of time?
NEWELL: This is running at about 475 feet a minute.
COSTELLO (voice-over): National Gypsum is proudly green. All of the dry wall manufactured here is made of synthetic gypsum, a substance recycled from material taken directly from First Energy Corporation's nearby plant after it burns coal to make electricity.
NEWELL: In a good year, we'll use an excess of 800,000 tons of material.
COSTELLO (on camera): Every year?
NEWELL: Every year.
COSTELLO (voice-over): But Newell says that may change. His green company may go bust because EPA is deciding whether to label all waste from coal-burning power plants hazardous.
NEWELL: Our biggest concern is that if we are classified along with the rest of the material that comes from the power plant as hazardous, our product may be tainted.
COSTELLO: And here's why. This is where tons of coal waste from First Energy ends up, Little Blue Run, the company's 976-acre retention pond. This waste is toxic. It contains arsenic, cadmium, and lead, substances that can cause cancer.
National Gypsum doesn't get any of its raw materials from Little Blue. But that doesn't matter to Tyra Collins and Marcy Carpenter, who live near Little Blue. They want the EPA to slap a big old hazardous label on everything that comes out of First Energy because they say coal waste is dangerous.
(on camera): They told us that the stuff in there is completely harmless.
MARCY CARPENTER, CONCERNED ABOUT COAL ASH: Well, why did we see dead trees? Why is everything dead around it?
COSTELLO (voice-over): Neighbors fear the stuff is seeping into the ground water and into their underground wells.
(on camera): Have you noticed anything with your water?
TYRA COLLINS, CONCERNED ABOUT COAL ASH: Every once in a while, I notice a smell. But we don't drink the tap water.
COSTELLO: You don't drink tap water?
COLLINS: No, not from my well. We drink bottled water. I give my dog bottled water.
COSTELLO (voice-over): Newell is sympathetic, but says not all waste from the burning of coal is hazardous. Synthetic gypsum is not coal ash. It's produced in a completely different way. It does contain arsenic and lead, but in such tiny amounts the EPA says it poses no health risks.
NEWELL: There's nothing hazardous about it. It's the equivalent of natural gypsum that you mine and quarry.
COSTELLO (on camera): And this is even in the offices of the EPA in Washington, D.C.
NEWELL: Yes, it is. Yes.
COSTELLO (voice-over): The Pennsylvania Department of Environmental Protection agrees with that assessment, plus it closely monitors Little Blue and says it's not endangering the public either. It also says the EPA's pending decision is causing unnecessary fear.
JOHN HANGER, PA DEPT. OF ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION: We don't dismiss the possibility of a problem. That's why we have 69 monitoring wells. At the same time, it's -- also, I think, irresponsible to sort of just fan people's concerns.
COSTELLO: The EPA pa isn't budging, though. It should make a final decision on whether to label coal waste hazardous next year.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COSTELLO: As for the cost of changing the status of coal ash to hazardous, that will cost the industry, the utility industry, about $1.5 billion a year. But the EPA says those costs will be offset by other benefits. Of course, utility companies say those costs will be offset by you. You'll see it in your electricity bill.
CHETRY: Yes. And what happens if it gets labeled hazardous and you, let's say, have this dry wall or something?
COSTELLO: Well, that's what they're concerned about. They say, you know, the dry wall is not hazardous, perfectly safe to have in your home. But they don't want to be lumped in with coal waste as a hazardous material because it's different from coal waste. It's made in a different way. It's a different substance. And if so if they lump it in, they fear it'll be tainted with that brush and people won't want it to be put in their house.
CHETRY: Right. I guess people at home saying, despite the cost -- I mean, the human toll seems enormous if it, indeed, is making people sick.
COSTELLO: Right. But we have to -- you have to separate it out. So, coal ash, you know, the neighbors say definitely that's making them sick, and they think it's seeping into their ground water, even though the Pennsylvania Department of Environmental Protection says it's not. But then, by the same token, the stuff that some people homes' dry wall is perfectly safe. It's a complicated issue. And, hopefully, it'll be sorted out next year.
CHETRY: Hopefully. Thanks so much.
ROBERTS: Thanks, Carol.
Still to come on the Most News in the Morning: Rob's got this morning's travel forecast. He's coming up right after the break.
And then at the top of the hour, we're going to be talking with Julian Lennon -- John Lennon's son, a significant anniversary tomorrow. Do you know what it is?
CHETRY: The anniversary of John Lennon's passing.
ROBERTS: No, that's December 8th. Tomorrow would have been John Lennon's -- tomorrow would have been John Lennon's 70th birthday.
CHETRY: Wow. Time flies.
ROBERTS: And an interesting reunion there around Julian Lennon's new photographic exhibit. So, we'll talk to him about all of that -- coming right up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) ROB MARCIANO, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Welcome back to the Most News in the Morning. I'm Rob Marciano. The weather pattern beginning to shake up a just a little bit and the dreary conditions that you've been dealing within the northeast, pretty much gone. It looks like a pretty good weekend. Cool, not terribly cool, but certainly cool and dry for the weekend and then warm to the backside of this thing, and then the storms that have been rolling through the west coast.
A couple of tornadoes touching down in Idaho yesterday. Here it is, higher elevation snows expected in parts of the Rocky Mountains and a decent storm rolling to the northwest this weekend, but that really is about 87 degrees. We're going to see records, I think, fall across the heartland today. Eighty-four degrees as far north as Minneapolis. It will be 72 degrees in New York City and 82 degrees in Atlanta.
Let's talk about tropical storm Otto. Winds of 75 miles an hour. Boy, they're still getting heavy rain across Puerto Rico. That's been the big characteristic with this storm. Flooding rains across Puerto Rico, and the U.S. and Virgin Islands. This thing is moving to the northeast pretty rapidly at about 14 miles an hour. Take a look at the forecast track. We think it'll continue on that track.
This time of year, we have strong jet stream south. Further north, these things go. The more they head to the east and I think Portugal, maybe even Northern Africa might get this thing before anybody else. You're up to date weather wise. AMERICAN MORNING is coming right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
JOHN ROBERTS, CNN ANCHOR: Coming up now eight minutes till the top of the hour. It's time for an "A.M. original," something that you'll see only on AMERICAN MORNING. It's hard to imagine John Lennon as a senior citizen. But had he lived, he would have turned 70 years old tomorrow. The music and the memories live on, of course. Recently, Lennon's oldest son, Julian, made his debut as a professional photographer with an exhibit here in New York City.
I sat down with Julian to talk about his pictures. Many of them of his half brother Shawn with whom he has had a terrific relationship over the years. His two families, and his father's enduring legacy.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ROBERTS (voice-over): It was photographing his brother, but seeing his father that gave him the inspiration.
JULIAN LENNON, PHOTOGRAPHER: It's one of my favorite shots of him. I mean, if -- he looks to me, nose and mouth with the glasses looks more like Lennon than Lennon. I mean, that's why it's Lennon by Lennon.
ROBERTS: After spending his music career in the shadow of his famous father, Julian Lennon wanted something all his own. So, in the city his father loved, he premiered his first photography exhibit.
ROBERTS (on-camera): How did you get the bug to get behind the lens? LENNON: I think it was only probably three or four years ago when Shawn was on tour in Eastern Europe, and I decided to surprise him on the road. And I brought a camera along. And it was only after I got home and started editing through those pictures that I sort of went, oh, I kind of like this. And one thing led to another.
ROBERTS: It had just been a hobby until that point?
LENNON: Until that point, yes, yes, absolutely.
ROBERTS (voice-over): It led Lennon to capture intimate moments through a series of landscapes and portraits with subjects like Kate Hudson and the band U2.
ROBERTS (on-camera): This is one I wanted to ask you about because it's a picture of Bono beneath the picture of your father.
LENNON: Sure. You know, I mean, we've -- we did discuss this. I think it's very much, you know, a very special picture for me because he looked up to dad and I look up to him and dad. So it's -- it's, you know. That was goose bumps for me when I took that shot.
ROBERTS (voice-over): Goose bumps that surely returned for Lennon the night of his opening. After decades of disagreements and infighting, the entire Lennon family, including his mother Cynthia and Yoko Ono came together for the first time.
ROBERTS (on-camera): How did that make you feel when everybody was together in the same place after so many years?
LENNON: I mean, the one thing I didn't want to do was overshadow the show. Being a little, you know, selfish in that regard, but the fact that we all ended up in the same room together, you know, hugging and kissing was pretty phenomenal.
ROBERTS: I could imagine.
LENNON: I don't think many people thought that would happen.
ROBERTS (voice-over): The reunion, bittersweet. A stark reminder of John's absence. And more reminders are coming.
ROBERTS (on-camera): Very significant date coming up in just a few --
LENNON: Apparently so. Yes.
ROBERTS: What would have been your dad's 70th birthday.
LENNON: Yes.
ROBERTS: Where do your thoughts run when you think about that significant anniversary?
LENNON: First and foremost, I think what age am I and what age he would have been and how weird is that just to begin with. But, you know, these days, I look back with a fondness and with respect and with, you know, in many respects of the achievements that he gained throughout his life.
ROBERTS: You know, this is a question I've asked people over the years. Mark David Chapman came up for parole again just a couple of weeks ago. He was denied for the sixth time.
LENNON: Yes.
ROBERTS: Should he ever be released?
LENNON: I can't answer that. You know, there's supposed to be room in our hearts in all of our hearts for forgiveness. My own thoughts are personal on that and my own and will remain that way. That's for me and my own thoughts and my own quiet time.
ROBERTS: Do you think his life would be in danger if he were ever --
LENNON: Oh, absolutely. No question about it. You know, I don't wish harm on anybody, but I think that if he did get out someone would try and hurt him. That's for sure.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROBERTS: That's something that I've -- a sentiment that I've heard from so many people over the last couple of months as we've been shooting this documentary that's coming up in early December. But another part of this whole thing that's really tragic is John Lennon didn't give Julian Lennon much during his childhood. He rarely saw him. It'd be years sometimes between visits whereas he doted on Shawn.
He took five years off to raise him, and John had said not long before he was shot that he missed having that with Julian Lennon, wanted to take some time in the future to try to reconnect with him. And I said to Julian, do you feel cheated by Nark David Chapman that you didn't get that opportunity? And he said, yes, that part of it really, really hurts.
KIRAN CHETRY, CNN ANCHOR: I can't imagine. And so, you grow up with this name and this legacy looming over you, yet you didn't have the inner personal relationship with that father when the entire world adored that man. It's very strange. It must be very strange.
ROBERTS: Your dad is some famous person floating around --
CHETRY: Right.
ROBERTS: But didn't float home very often.
Programming note, our CNN documentary, losing Lennon countdown to murder premiers Saturday and Sunday, December 4th and 5th at 8:00 and 11:00 p.m. eastern. You'll be very interested to see how much people remember what happened 30 years ago. It's pretty (INAUDIBLE).
CHETRY: We'll look forward to seeing it. We're going to take a quick break and your top story's coming up in just a moment.
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