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Nancy Grace
10-Year-Old Cancer Survivor Kidnapped?
Aired October 11, 2010 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight, Live, North Carolina. A 10-year-old little girl snatched from her own bedroom in the dark of night, the little girl, Zahra, completely dependent on two hearing aids and can only walk by using a prosthetic leg after losing her left leg to childhood bone cancer. This little girl, facing so much hardship, now vanishes into thin air, her bedroom empty, her prosthetic leg missing, hearing aids left behind. Last person to see Zahra alive, stepmommy.
Bombshell tonight. Investigators zero in on a ransom note found. But tonight, cops say K9s reportedly hit on two family cars as search teams scouring densely wooded areas and combing grainy surveillance video from nearby businesses. At this hour, investigators say no one -- repeat, no one -- is ruled out as a suspect.
And tonight, in a stunning twist, stepmommy arrested on bad checks, as Zahra`s dad says he`s learning his whole marriage has been a lie. And as we go to air right now, I`m reading a report, a wire, investigators in the last hour seizing items from the Baker home, gas cans, burn (ph) samples, drug paraphernalia. The warrants say two samples of possible blood taken from the family car? Where is 10-year-old Zahra?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: An Amber Alert.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Amber Alert.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Amber Alert.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Has been issued for a missing 10-year-old girl in North Carolina.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Zahra Baker.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Who fought cancer.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Zahra Claire Baker.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Lost her leg.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Zahra.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Zahra.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Zahra.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And her hearing.
ZAHRA BAKER, MISSING 10-YEAR-OLD: I can actually hear most things without my hearing aid.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She was last seen sleeping in her bedroom.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s a safe...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Safe.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Safe.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... neighborhood.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Her dad reported her missing 12 hours later.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I just hope I can get my daughter back!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re trying to establish the timeline.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: According to the search warrant.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There was a small fire at the home.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: K9s gave positive alert for the presence of human remains in both cars at the Bakers` home.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There was a note.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A ransom note.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Doused in gasoline.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: At the house, yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It said, "Mr. Coffey, you like being in control. Now who`s in control? We have your daughter."
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police arrested her stepmom.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Elise Baker.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: On unrelated charges.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Zahra Baker`s stepmother.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They also say the woman`s account.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Inconsistencies in her statement.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Has been inconsistent.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Has led us to believe that she has not been truthful.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Truthful.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Truthful.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Truthful with us.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The longer that we go without knowing where she is.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The less of a chance that she is going to have to survive.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And tonight, live, Idaho, paramedics racing to a Post Falls neighborhood after a 911 call for a 3-year-old toddler boy unresponsive. The baby-sitter says while changing the toddler`s wet diaper, he goes limp. An emergency CT scan confirms a bleeding skull fracture. All we know right now, the baby wets himself and wets the baby-sitter`s sofa, and then somehow, he lands in intensive care? It doesn`t fit together!
Breaking now, 3-year-old baby Cohen taken off life support. Shortly after the baby passes away, in the last hours, baby-sitter facing murder one charges. Skull fracture, bleeding to the brain over wet pants? No! We want answers!
BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Three-year-old Cohen Johnson has passed away as a result of the injuries he sustained from his care provider.
GRACE: Bleeding skull fracture.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Twenty-five-year-old baby-sitter.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Amanda Scoggin (ph) arrested.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: For first degree murder.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The baby-sitter told police she got frustrated.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The child had urinated on her and also the couch. She reacted by pushing the child.
GRACE: Over wet pants?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The care provider could hear a crack, which was the child`s head.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It had carpeted floor, but a concrete foundation. It`s a very thin, very hard surface, even though it had carpeting on it.
GRACE: Skull fracture, bleeding to the brain.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Detectives have arrested 25-year-old Amanda Scoggin for first degree murder.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Bombshell tonight, live, North Carolina. A 2-year-old little girl snatched from her own bedroom in the dark of night, the little girl, 10-year-old Zahra, was completely dependent on two hearing aids and she can only walk by use of a prosthetic leg. She lost her hearing and her left leg to child bone cancer. This little girl facing so much hardship, now vanishes into thin air.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are running out of time.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She`s 10 years old.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The longer this thing goes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The girl is hearing impaired and also has a prosthetic leg.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The likelihood that this outcome will not be positive.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Zahra Baker.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Missing Zahra Baker.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Zahra Baker.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Was last seen.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) her bedroom.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Her bed.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Anything.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Anything.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Anything is a possibility at this time.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Reports that police search warrants revealed.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Small fire at the home.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Surveillance video.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Dogs alerted to the presence of human remains.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Presence of human remains.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: On both cars.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: On both cars.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: At the home.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Stepmother.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Elise Baker.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Was arrested on several charges unrelated to the disappearance.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Inconsistencies in her statement. She has not been truthful with us.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police are not ruling her out as a person of interest.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you think your wife could have something to do with Zahra`s disappearance?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I wouldn`t like to think so, but (INAUDIBLE) what I`ve heard so far, it could be possible.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: You`re hearing some of that off of "GMA" today. Take a look at this little girl, 10-year-old Zahra. In her short life, she has faced more than most of us will ever battle in a whole lifetime, fighting child bone cancer, losing her hearing in both ears, losing her left leg, had to be amputated from the knee down, made her way around with hearing aids and a prosthetic. But she was surviving. And now this 10-year-old girl, so defenseless, so innocent, vanishes from her own home in the middle of the night? I don`t like it!
Out to John Miller, Hickory, of the -- editor of "The Hickory Daily Record." John, what do you know?
JOHN MILLER, "HICKORY DAILY RECORD": Well, we know that this community is still trying to find her. I mean, I was walking up and down the block before I went on air here, and the neighbors are concerned. People walking up to me are concerned. They see the lights. They see the cameras.
GRACE: John...
MILLER: They want action.
GRACE: ... John, John...
MILLER: They want to find out where Zahra is.
GRACE: John...
MILLER: Yes?
GRACE: Tell me something I don`t know! I know everybody`s concerned. I`m happy people...
MILLER: Well, at this point...
GRACE: ... walk up to you and said...
MILLER: OK...
GRACE: ... Hey, I`m concerned. I want to hear the facts. Can you tell me the facts?
MILLER: Well, part of it is that, as you well know, when you`re dealing with police, one day the facts are one thing, the next day the facts are something else. For instance, day one, we were not told that the police dogs alerted to the vehicles. Today we find out they were alerted to the vehicles. Search warrant -- there were search warrants performed. They weren`t told to us as far as the media`s concerned.
So we are trying -- we just got the search warrant. We`re digging to try to find out what investigators know because right now, they are very tight-lipped. They`re not used to this kind of a situation, which is unheard of in a lot of small communities. So what people are trying to find is solace, for one, and trying to find some protection for their own children. But they`re trying to get to the truth. And I think because of the familial situation with the stepmother, the family, people are really concerned about what`s going on.
GRACE: With us is John Miller, the editor of "The Hickory Daily Record." And he`s right. The story is emerging minute by minute. In fact, as we go to air right now, I have just gotten in my hands a copy of portions of the search warrant that John Miller`s talking about. We`re just getting little bits and pieces of it. And it`s a very, very unusual circumstance.
In fact, to you, Ellie Jostad, our chief editorial producer. Cops can`t even nail down a timeline.
Everybody, please look at this girl, tip line 828-328-5551. That`s Hickory Police Department. Look at Zahra. According to her stepmother, she`s asleep. She checks on Zahra, hears her coughing around 2:30 AM. But then she says she finds out the next day at 2:30 PM the girl`s not in her room.
OK, Ellie, right there, how do you go 12 hours -- what 10-year-old girl sleeps until 2:30 in the afternoon? Right there, I don`t like it, Ellie!
ELLIE JOSTAD, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Right, Nancy. And the other disturbing part of this story, too, is that we learned that the father hasn`t seen Zahra since Thursday night. And even more, Nancy, at this press conference, it became pretty clear that cops cannot find anybody other than the dad or stepmom that has seen her recently. They`re asking anybody who`s seen her in the last month to come forward.
GRACE: You know, Marc Klaas is with us, president and founder of Klaas Kids Foundation. Marc, we have really missed you the last couple of weeks. Thank you for being back with us. Marc, listen, you know this story like the back of your own hand. You lived it when Polly went missing.
Now, when we say -- let me see Marc Klaas. I can`t see him. When we say the father hasn`t seen her since Thursday -- look, there`s an explanation for that. The father does landscaping. He gets up at, like, 5:00 o`clock, 6:00 o`clock in the morning and takes off to cut somebody`s grass, all right? Then he gets in late at night, well after her bedtime. He sees her on Thursday, is my understanding. Everything`s fine. When he gets up Friday morning, she`s still asleep. When he gets in Friday night, she`s already to bed.
But things get -- let me just say curiouser and curiouser. The more we hear about it, the more odd it becomes, Marc.
MARC KLAAS, KLAAS KIDS FOUNDATION: Well, I think what the father really needs to do is go in and get a polygraph by law enforcement to clear up his involvement in this. I think his story sounds credible. The stepmother, on the other hand -- nothing really makes sense. And I want to be very clear here, Nancy. Children -- middle class children are not kidnapped for ransom in the United States in the 21st century. That just doesn`t happen.
GRACE: Well, I tell you -- everybody, you`re seeing a photo of Zahra`s father, Adam Baker, from ABC`s "Good Morning America." And he is suddenly saying that he`s finding out his whole marriage has been a lie, and that is after we, and I`m sure others, uncover a rap sheet on the stepmother as long as your arm. I got to tell you, there`s got to be over 20 entries, most of them bad checks and fraudulent incidents.
Out to the lines. Jesse, Nevada. Hi, Jesse.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. It sounds to me like they better make this mother have a polygraph. And it sounds like she got rid of this poor child because she didn`t want to take care her anymore. It`s a sin what happens to children in this world today.
GRACE: Jesse, hold on. Let me tell you something. This is the stepmother. To make matters just a little bit worse, her mother, her biological mother, has not seen her since she was about 8 months old. She lives in Australia. She doesn`t know where her own daughter is, if she`s dead or alive. And tonight, neither do we.
Everybody, we are talking about a 10-year-old little girl. We`re going to go back to Jesse in Nevada`s her question. Zahra goes missing, allegedly, in the dead of night, the wee morning hours. This 10-year-old little girl has been battling child bone cancer. Now reports sifting in from the neighborhood that the stepmother would make her walk long distances on her prosthetic leg, and then punish her when she could walk no longer.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The hearing aids not being with her is a pretty good indication that she did not run away.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police said there was a small fire at the home the morning Zahra went missing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re running out of time, folks. The longer this thing goes, the likelihood that this outcome will not be positive.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ZAHRA BAKER: I can actually hear most things without my hearing aids.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: For a missing 10-year-old girl in North Carolina.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Zahra was last seen sleeping in her bed early Saturday morning.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sleeping in her bedroom around 2:00 AM.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She`s missing (INAUDIBLE) an Amber Alert (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: An Amber Alert was issued at the time of her disappearance because possible danger.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Her dad reported her missing 12 hours later.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Zahra is hearing-impaired and she has a prosthetic leg.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She`s 10 years old. She`s scared. She has these disabilities.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is Zahra`s stepmother still considered a person of interest?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Anything`s a possibility at this time.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Stepmother Elise Baker was arrested on several charges unrelated to the disappearance.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Inconsistencies developed over the course of this investigation has not eliminated her as a person of interest.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you suspect foul play?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Anything`s a possibility right now.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "Mr. Coffey, you like being in control. Now who`s in control? We have your daughter, and your pot-smoking redhead son is next unless you do what is asked, $1 million unmarked. We`ll be in touch."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: I have just gotten the ransom note, a copy of it, right here in my hands. "Mr. Coffey, you like being in control. Now who`s in control? We have your daughter, and your pot-smoking redhead son is next unless you do what is asked, $1 million unmarked. We`ll be in touch soon." Sounds like an adult writing -- no, sounds like a 5th grader writing a novel. This is bogus! You know, I`m not a cop and I`m not a professional at analyzing ransom notes, but this note is bogus. This is not real. You know, Marc Klaas just brought that up.
We are taking your calls. Back to Jesse in Nevada. Jesse, what was your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did they give the stepmother a lie detector test, Nancy?
GRACE: I`m willing to bet no because you don`t have to submit to them. To Ellie Jostad, what do we know? Did the stepmother or the father take a lie detector?
JOSTAD: Well, police aren`t talking about polygraphs at this point, but cops did come right out and say -- and we hear every once in a while that somebody isn`t cooperating. But police went a step further today and said that the stepmother was inconsistent in her statements and that she is being not truthful.
GRACE: Out to the lines. Brenda, Pennsylvania. Hi, Brenda.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hello, Nancy. How are you?
GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) it says on -- or I heard on the show that the mother was using. And I want to know how the father not knew that. Just looking at this lady, she looks like a monster.
GRACE: Using drugs? Are you saying that the stepmother`s using drugs and how father did not know it?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Isn`t that what I heard? Yes.
GRACE: What about it, John Miller? What do we know? John joining us from "The "Hickory Daily Record" there outside the home in Hickory, in North Carolina. What do we know?
MILLER: Well, Nancy, as far as her drug use is concerned, we have no indication of that yet, even though we know some items were taken from the home. But we also know that she has a FaceBook page. And on our Web site, we`re going to link to that FaceBook page eventually. But we wanted to make sure that we had enough information about her in order to make sure that we weren`t putting her in a position of having her being found guilty in the public mind.
GRACE: Well, hold on. John...
MILLER: But we want to make sure people have enough information about her.
GRACE: What did you find on the FaceBook page?
MILLER: Well, we just found some musings by her, some pictures and some other...
GRACE: Musings...
MILLER: ... pieces of information.
GRACE: ... musings, musings -- about what?
MILLER: Well, about her life, about things that are happening before she...
GRACE: Could you be a little more specific...
MILLER: ... came to Hickory...
GRACE: ... about what was of interest on her Web site?
MILLER: OK. The only thing of interest concerning this specific case was that she called her daughter a "dark child." And the only instance on the Web site where she mentioned her daughter, she called her a dark child. And so everything was really not of much concern to us. We were interested in finding out what was on her FaceBook page about her.
GRACE: You know, that`s a very interesting observation -- John Miller joining us from "The Hickory Daily Record."
You know, Ellie Jostad, another thing, a fire in the middle of all this, a fire gets started in the home?
JOSTAD: Right. Well, and that`s the other weird thing about this, Nancy. At 5:00 AM, approximately, there`s a fire in the yard. Apparently, someone had poured gasoline over the family cars and tried to start them on fire.
GRACE: You know, Marc Klaas, come on! Arson, a ransom note and a kidnapping all in 24 hours?
KLAAS: It`s a woman who seems to be completely out of control and desperately trying to cover up crimes that she has committed.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Zahra Claire (ph) Baker.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She is hearing-impaired, also has a prosthetic leg.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: An Amber Alert was issued.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police in Hickory.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Not ruling anything out in the disappearance of a 10-year-old girl.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s very unlikely that she ran away.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She`s 10 years old. She`s scared.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Last seen sleeping in her bedroom. Her dad reported her missing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Elise Baker, Zahra Baker`s stepmother.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police arrested her stepmother on unrelated charges.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This investigation has not eliminated her as a person of interest.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Zahra is hearing-impaired.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Inconsistencies in her statement have led us to believe that she has not been truthful with us.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Is there a chance this 10-year-old little girl, who has braved child bone cancer, has two hearing aids, can only walk with a prosthetic leg, her leg amputated, fighting bone cancer -- and now she`s missing? Too many coincidences. They don`t fit together.
Unleash the lawyers. We are taking your calls live. Ken Hodges, former prosecutor, Atlanta, Anne Bremner, high-profile defense attorney, Seattle, Peter Ellikan (ph), defense attorney and author of "Super Predators," Boston.
OK, Anne, hit me. This lady`s got a lot of explaining to do.
ANNE BREMNER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, yes, but I love the statement, She can`t be eliminated as a person of interest. I mean, that says all of it, right, Nancy, right now. And the thing is, I`m thinking East Coast/West Coast. What about the Kyron Horman case. You know, Teri Horman, the stepmom, is not...
GRACE: Hey, hey! Anne!
BREMNER: ... in custody at this time, but...
GRACE: Keep it in the middle of the road!
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Middle of the road! Focus on this case!
BREMNER: Well, these are -- well, I`m telling you that this case is very similar in a lot of ways. We`ve got inconsistencies. You`ve got evidence that looks like she may be involved. You`ve got the public ready to lynch her. But the fact is, you don`t have a lot of evidence right now. I`d love to see that search warrant affidavit, if there`s something more there. But right now, there`s just a lot of things here and there that don`t lead up to her being a suspect...
GRACE: Ellie...
BREMNER: ... with a probable cause...
GRACE: ... what was the...
BREMNER: ... to arrest her for murder.
GRACE: ... drug paraphernalia taken out of the home?
JOSTAD: Yes, we don`t know, Nancy, just drug paraphernalia. I don`t have the part of the warrant that specifies it.
GRACE: So Ken Hodges, you don`t think it`s a little bit odd -- put Hodges up. Don`t you have children, Hodges?
KEN HODGES, FORMER PROSECUTOR: I`ve got two, yes.
GRACE: All right...
HODGES: I`ve got a little girl and a little boy.
GRACE: ... don`t you think it`s very unusual that she says she hears the daughter cough at 2:30 AM but she doesn`t poke her head in again until 2:30 PM? Can you even imagine that?
HODGES: Not any way to imagine. All of her inconsistencies, her background with her criminal history, all these things are very troubling, Nancy, and I think the police...
GRACE: Well, that`s...
HODGES: ... have got the right person.
GRACE: ... certainly putting perfume on the pig. Peter Ellikan, it`s more than troubling. We`re talking about a possible child homicide, Ellikan!
PETER ELLIKAN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, that`s correct. It is looking really bad for the circumstantial evidence that`s coming against the stepmother. But it`s all coming in now, so we really don`t know enough at this point to say whether she`s guilty or not. It just doesn`t look good.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We need teachers, we need doctors, we need store clerks, we need anyone that has seen this girl in the last week, the last month.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: She was reported missing Saturday afternoon. But it`s starting to appear like she may have been missing much longer.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: When was the last time somebody actually saw this 10-year-old?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That`s what we`re asking. That is what we need to know.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Her parents said they last saw her at 2:30 Saturday morning. According to a search warrant there was a fire in the backyard three hours later.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We gathered some evidence at the fire scene.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The police chief would not elaborate, but the search warrant does.
Police found a ransom note on a windshield of a car doused in gasoline. It said, Mr. Coffey, you like being in control. Now who`s in control? We have your daughter. And your pot-smoking redhead son is next unless you do what is asked.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Liz, let me see a picture -- there you go -- of the little girl. This little 10-year-old girl Zahra has been fighting child bone cancer, has lost part of her left leg, has to wear a prosthetic to walk.
And according to neighbors, the stepmother would have her walk long distances and when the girl could not keep up, she would be punished. She also cannot hear. She lost her hearing in her battle against cancer. And now just to top it all off, the little girl goes missing.
What I don`t get, Ellie Jostad, is why cops are saying, hey, can anybody say they`ve seen her in the last month? I thought we were talking about the weekend? What do you mean the last month?
Not a neighbor, not anybody at church, not anybody -- well, she`s home schooled. The grocery store? Nobody?
ELLIE JOSTAD, NANCY GRACE CHIEF EDITORIAL PRODUCER: Right. Well, that`s what one of the many disturbing things about this story. She`s home schooled. Her step mom was home schooling her so nobody at school can verify her whereabouts.
They also say that they had just moved to this neighborhood and in fact they moved around a lot. So none of these neighbors in the neighborhood even knew her. They can`t find anybody who`s seen her recently.
GRACE: We`re taking your calls. To Lakisha, Indiana. Hi, Lakisha.
LAKISHA, CALLER FROM INDIANA: Hi, Nancy, it`s always nice to talk to you.
GRACE: Likewise.
LAKISHA: I got a comment and a question.
GRACE: OK.
LAKISHA: I was wanting you to put my family in your prayers. My little girl`s father, he`s got the Guillain-Barre disease. And he`s is temporarily paralyzed where he can`t use none of his limbs or anything like that.
GRACE: Lakisha, what is his name?
LAKISHA: Timothy Hurt.
GRACE: I certainly will.
LAKISHA: It just breaks my heart. These cases break my heart also too. I mean, I don`t know how people could just hurt a child. You know --
GRACE: I don`t either. I don`t either, Lakisha. And when I think about what the little girl has already gone through, and look at her in all of these pictures. She`s smiling.
LAKISHA: She`s beautiful. Yes.
GRACE: She`s just smiling so big. And what is really crazy, Lakisha in Indiana, is that the cops are saying, look, forget about this weekend. Has anybody seen her in the last month? They don`t even know where to start, Lakisha in Indiana --
LAKISHA: That is crazy.
GRACE: Because they don`t have a time line. What is your question?
LAKISHA: My question was, if the little girl was not found, what is - - what kind of charges is this lady going to face? And --
GRACE: Well, first of all, Lakisha, a murder case can be brought to a jury without a body. And the fact that these dogs are hitting on the family cars, that`s a big deal, and remember, this is just how tot mom happened. The dogs hitting on the cars. The mother -- the mother, figure here, the stepmother, being the last one with her, lie upon lie upon lie.
Ellie Jostad, what is the mother being held for tonight? The stepmother.
JOSTAD: Yes. Well, right now she is facing a bunch of charges, Nancy. She`s written bad checks, driving without a license, also forgery charges, making threats. She`s held on over $30,000 bond right now.
GRACE: OK. Let me see the picture of her with the earring stuck in her eyebrow and the red hair and the black hair. Yes, I think that`s going to be much more of a recent shot if I can -- no, no, I`ve got another one. You`ve got another one, Liz.
There you go. All right. Here she is. This is the most recent picture we`ve got. Has anybody out there seen this woman with the little girl? This is who we`re going to have home school our child?
Tip line, 828-328-3551. If you haven`t seen the little girl, have you seen her? And what about this father? He`s saying he saw her on Thursday. But now cops cannot confirm her being seen for the last month.
Unleash the lawyers, Ken Hodges, Anne Bremmer, Peter Elikan. You know they`ve got the stepmother behind bars to crack her and make her talk about the little girl. They don`t care about a forgery that happened five years ago?
KEN HODGES, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: No, they don`t. But they don`t have the evidence to charge her with murder yet. So they need to develop the evidence, and so they`re using just to hold her there which is a great police investigative technique.
GRACE: What about it, Peter?
PETER ELIKAN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes, I assume that somebody doing bad checks and driving without a license, and not returning rental property, that doesn`t make you a murderer. But it certainly gives them a good reason to hold her for a while, so she can`t just be running off. And they`ve got her where they want her. So it`s a standard technique and they seem to be using it to the max here.
GRACE: Anne Bremmer?
ANNE BREMNER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes. What if she doesn`t crack? And then what? There`s no evidence right now and there may never be any evidence --
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Well, actually, John Miller -- John Miller, Anne Bremmer is pointing out saying there`s no evidence. But as you`re saying -- John Miller joining us from the family home there in Hickory, North Carolina. We don`t know what all the evidence is yet?
JOHN MILLER, THE HICKORY DAILY RECORD: We clearly don`t know what all the evidence yet. Because as I said earlier on Saturday, they told us the dogs did not hit on any of the vehicles or in the home or the crawl space under the home. That they -- they said the dogs did hit on two of the vehicles which had been burned.
So there`s this drip, drip, drip of information that`s coming out.
GRACE: Yes.
MILLER: Probably because investigators are trying to figure out what`s verifiable and what`s not. But I think what`s going to happen, we`re going to hear that drip, drip, drip over the next several days, and with the community`s interest in finding this child and with the help coming from the other investigators, we`ll get to the bottom of this relatively soon.
GRACE: OK, you know what? You know what? John, just completely stick with the facts, OK? I know the community`s interested, all right? And I know the police are playing it close to the vest. I got it. I want to hear the facts.
What can you tell me? Facts only. Just the facts. About that ransom note. Where was it found?
MILLER: The ransom note was found on a vehicle that was burned in one of the -- in the backyard. But that information again wasn`t told to us until day three of the investigation.
GRACE: OK, listen, John.
MILLER: That`s my --
GRACE: John. John. I don`t care when the information came out. I`m just trying to ascertain the facts, all right? Let`s talk about that.
MILLER: Gotcha.
GRACE: Marc Klaas, president and founder, KlassKids Foundation. John Miller with the "Hickory Daily Record" just cleared something up for me. That ransom note. Why would you leave a ransom note sitting out on somebody`s car? If you go in to get the little girl -- that doesn`t make sense.
MARC KLAAS, PRESIDENT AND FOUNDER, KLAASKIDS FOUNDATION: Well, nothing about a ransom note for a middle class family makes sense. These are not people that are going to be able to come up with $1 million under any circumstances. And who in the world would want to be burdened with this poor little child who can`t walk, who has to depend upon hearing aids?
If you`re going to steal a child, you`re going to steal a healthy child. At least in my estimation that`s what you would do.
This is a woman who -- listen, the dogs have hit on human remains, there are possible blood stains, there`s no credibility sightings of this little girl. There`s an apparent history of cruelty toward this little girl by the stepmother. There`s a ridiculous ransom note.
I think it`s really important here for the father to come forth and do whatever he can to clear himself up. That way they can start putting a time line together. Was she there Thursday? That`s very easy to determine, it seems to me. And then they have to start looking for her. They have to start backtracking.
And I would suggest, Nancy, that they start looking at any storage lockers that this family might have. Because if they do move around a lot, there`s no doubt in my mind that there are probably one or more storage locker where`s they hold some of their property.
GRACE: You know, I want to talk about something you just mentioned, Marc Klass.
Ellie, what do we know about allegations the stepmother had been cruel to the little girl?
JOSTAD: Right, Nancy. Well, apparently neighbors have said that this mother was short tempered, that she quickly and easily got frustrated with the little girl. And as you mentioned, there are neighbors that are saying she would make the little girl walk long distances on that prosthetic leg and that she would ground her when she was lagging behind and wasn`t keeping up.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ZAHRA BAKER, MISSING 10-YEAR-OLD: I can actually hear more than without my hearing aids.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: For a missing 10-year-old girl in North Carolina.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Zahra was last seen sleeping in her bed early Saturday morning.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Sleeping in her bed right around 2:00 a.m.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She`s missing. An Amber alert went out.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: An Amber alert was issued at the time of her disappearance because of possible danger.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Hickory police officers pounding the pavement in search of a missing girl. They knock on dozens of doors, near where Zahra Baker was last seen.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Anything is a possibility at this time.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: What police have figured out is that Zahra was last seen sleeping in her bed early Saturday morning. The house belongs to Zahra`s father and stepmother who reported her missing 12 hours later. Police believe Zahra may still be close to home.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She`s 10 years old, she`s scared, she has this disability.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: According to the search warrant, canines gave positive alert for the presence of human remains in both cars at the Baker`s home.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are taking your calls, but one other note that just jumped out at me about this stepmother is, isn`t it true -- out to you, John Miller with "The Hickory Daily Record" -- that the stepmother says that she writes songs for "American Idol" contestant Daughtry? Did she say that?
MILLER: Apparently she said that to one of her former neighbors. And that neighbor also said she couldn`t be trusted. Because she was a person known to tell lies.
GRACE: Ellie.
MILLER: But that is one of the lies apparently she told.
GRACE: Did she tell people she wrote songs for Daughtry?
JOSTAD: Yes. We --
GRACE: "It`s Not Over", "Home", "What I Want", "Over You", "Crashed". You`re kidding me, right? Yes, she needs to go to jail right now because that`s a big fat lie.
JOSTAD: She told one of our producers -- one of our producers told us that the stepmom allegedly said yes, she wrote songs for Daughtry and she also told everybody that she was a cop which they later found out wasn`t true.
GRACE: OK. We`re -- quickly switching gears, we`re headed to Idaho in a story I told you about last week. A little boy wets his pants, the babysitter says she pushes him over and he fractures his skull. The baby`s dead. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The 3-year-old boy --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Cohen Johnson.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is in the care of his 25-year-old babysitter.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Amanda Skogen.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Amanda Lynn Skogen.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The babysitter told police she got frustrated.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The child had urinated on her.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Admitted to pushing the boy.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Pushing him to the ground after he wet his pants.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: He hit the back of his head on the floor.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The care provider could hear a crack.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Cohen was unresponsive.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Which was the child`s head.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Fracturing his skull.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Has pretty traumatic head injuries.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Three-year-old Cohen Johnson has passed away as a result of the injuries he sustained from his care provider.
Post Falls Police officers responded to the 500 block of North Elm Road for the report of a 3-year-old male who was breathing but unresponsive.
When officers arrived on scene they were told by the babysitter that she was attempting to remove urine soaked clothes from the 3-year-old, when the -- when he became limp and unresponsive.
Medical personnel arrived on the scene and transported the child to (INAUDIBLE) Medical Center in Cordalaine. Initially it was believed that the child might have ingested something that caused him to slip into an unresponsive state. Officers were later advised that a CT scan revealed that the child was -- had a --
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: In the last hours we have learned the little boy was taken off life support and he died. The story this babysitter has told just does not ring true to me.
Out to you, Meghann Cuniff, with the "Spokesman-Review" joining us out of Washington.
Meghann, what do we know?
MEGHANN CUNIFF, REPORTER, THE SPOKESMAN-REVIEW: Well, just a tragic turn up here, Nancy. Little Cohen has died just after he was taken of life support. His babysitter Amanda Skogen was arrested for his murder. She`s currently being held without bail tonight at a jail near Post Falls.
Post Falls is where police say she shoved little Cohen after he wet his pants, and the boy hit his -- the back of his head on the concrete floor. Police say she shoved him so hard he basically flew across the room. He lives for just a few more days after that.
GRACE: To Dr. Panchali Dhar, doctor of internal medicine, author of "Before the Scalpel," joining us out of New York.
Dr. Panchali Dhar, this is -- well, there`s no other way to put it. It`s BS. You cannot shove a child down from a standing position. The little boy can`t be over three feet tall. And he fractures -- he`s got a skull fracture, bleeding to the brain and he dies from falling over three feet? No, that`s not true.
DR. PANCHALI DHAR, M.D., INTERNAL MEDICINE, AUTHOR OF "BEFORE THE SCALPEL": Well, yes, the impact is much greater than that. You know what this is called? This is called abusive head trauma. That`s the head term for this.
I think the child was so frightened from the abuse, he urinated on himself. And things got progressively worse, and she threw the child, which caused I`m sure a scalp laceration.
The scalp bleeds profusely, cracked the bones of the skull, pieces of bone may have been lodged in his brain. The brain was bleeding inside. The pressure increased. And of course he`s unconscious. That`s a bad prognosis and it`s a surgical emergency.
So they took him to the OR. The way to relieve the pressure in the brain is to open the head. You have to open the head.
GRACE: With a shunt?
DHAR: No, you just leave the head open and the brain exposed and you suction the blood out and control the bleeding vessel.
This is a bad prognosis to begin with. To happen in a 3-year-old child. Of course he`s on a life support which means he was on a ventilator. He probably needed medications to sustain his blood pressure. And --
GRACE: Well, Dr. Panchali Dhar, what I was trying to find out is, do you think it`s possible -- and not possible. Do you think it`s probable that you can push a child over from a standing position? The child`s only three feet tall, OK?
He`s 3 years old. And the child gets this kind of a brain and skull injury? I don`t believe it. I think this child was beaten mercilessly.
DHAR: Yes, I think there was repeated impact against the wall or against the floor. It`s not just a light push or a shove. Children do fall down, let`s realize that. So this was more than that.
GRACE: To Detective Lt. Steven Rogers, Nutley, New Jersey Police Department, former member FBI.
Steven, how do we prove it? She`s the only one there. She and the little boy, and now without life support, the little 3-year-old boy is dead.
DET. LT. STEVE ROGERS, NUTLEY, NEW JERSEY, POLICE DEPARTMENT: Well, here`s how you prove it. As soon as the doctors notified law enforcement that there was a fractured skull, there`s no doubt in my mind, Nancy, that that house became a crime scene. Forensics experts went in there. They`re looking for blood, they`re looking for hair fibers in wood or concrete. The forensic evidence is going to nail this coffin shut on this individual.
GRACE: To Wendy Walsh, psychologist and expert on momlogic.com.
Wendy, you know, every time I`ve ever had a child murder case -- everybody, you`re seeing the babysitter`s photos for the first time. Last week they were keeping her identity, Amanda Lynn Skogen, 25. They were keeping her identity a big secret.
I didn`t get it. But there she is in all of her splendor and glory. This is the babysitter in charge of this 3-year-ld child now dead.
What do you make of it, Wendy?
WENDY WALSH, PH.D., PSYCHOLOGIST, EXPERT ON MOMLOGIC.COM: I make of it the fact that she has clear anger management problem, a big impulse control, and she went into a rage and she lost it with this kid.
Now she is a murderer in that sense. But let`s remember, Nancy, she deserves the consequences. She is a murderer but a maternal instinct is not natural. We parent the way we were parented. So I wonder how she was treated when she urinated on herself when she was young. When happened to her to cause this kind of rage in her body. But she`s definitely a murderer.
GRACE: And tonight the story itself is even changing. Now she says with just one shove, the little boy flew across the room hitting his head on a cement-based floor. And she was angry because he urinated on her sofa.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Initially it was believed that the child might have ingested something that caused him to slip into an unresponsive state.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: They say that he underwent surgery. He was rushed by helicopter to a hospital over here in Spokane, which is about 20, 25 miles away from where he was injured.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Officers were later advised that a CT scan revealed that the child was -- had a bleeding skull fracture.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And so you believe, Detective Lieutenant Steve Rogers, that they will find forensic evidence in the home to disprove her story?
ROGERS: No doubt about it. With the technology we have today. First of all, she lied when the police responded, when the emergency personnel responded. So that in itself is -- clearly shows she tried to cover something up.
But the forensics, Nancy, is very important. And I really believe that it`s going to wrap this case up pretty quickly.
GRACE: You know what? We are talking about wrapping cases up with forensic evidence. Take a look at this little boy, Cohen Johnson. He was just taken off life support, and he has now gone to heaven. The babysitter said she shoved him because he urinated on his clothes and on her sofa.
Let`s stop and remember Army Master Sergeant Robert Horrigan, 40, Austin, Texas, killed Iraq. From an Air Force family served Special Forces on a fifth tour. Also served Afghanistan three times.
Highly decorated with a Bronze Star, Purple Heart, Legion of Merit, Defense Meritorious Service medal, Joint Service Commendation med. An accomplished bladesmith, loved the outdoor, hunting, fishing. Dreamed of retiring to Texas with his family after Iraq.
Leaves behind grieving mother Mary, sister Lisa, brother Daniel, twin brother John, widow Denise, daughter Courtney.
Robert Horrigan, American hero.
Thanks to our guests but especially to you. And a special good night from friends of the show, Ashley, Anita, Mitchell, Robin and Phyllis. Aren`t they beautiful?
And everyone tonight one of our show stars, Dee Emmerson, is a hero. After trying to save the life of a man trapped in a burning car. She saw the car on the side of the interstate, leaped out, ran into a building to get a fire extinguisher. And tried to save the man`s life. The last she saw he was on his way to the hospital.
Tonight we learn he is alive. What a hero.
I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.
END
