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CNN Larry King Live

Last Miner Rescued in Chile

Aired October 13, 2010 - 21:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

LARRY KING, HOST: Thank you, Eliot. Thank you, Kathleen, Candy Crowley.

We're looking at the president of Chile welcoming the last miner, Luis Urzua, the foreman of that crew, who has arrived.

We have no simultaneous interpretation, but let's just watch.

PRES. SEBASTIAN PINERA, CHILE (through translator): And their families and the rescue workers and the engineers and the medical team and those who are still underground because we are going to bring them up as well. I want us to sing with helmets on our heart, our national song, in honor of all Chileans.

(CHANTING AND SINGING)

LUIS URZUA, FINAL RESCUED MINER (through translator): Now, I have to hug all of you. Mr. Minister. Thank you. You, you have been -- thank you, on behalf of our families.

I know this was difficult. The first couple of days were very difficult. We were thinking about our families. We hope never again.

We spoke, always talking with the truth, always speaking with the truth. I hope that we can --- we can keep this going. People like you are worth a lot speaking the truth. We can get a long way. We can go a long way.

(APPLAUSE)

URZUA: Thank you. Thank you for everything. You have been excellent. You, as therapist and psychologist, everything, everything that they say.

It was hard. It was a shift of 70 days. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, on behalf of all of our families. Thank you for everything.

Congratulations for everything. On behalf of everyone, thank you.

We have done an excellent job. We have done what the entire world was waiting for. The 70 days that we fought so hard were not in vain.

I think the first several days, I can't even explain it. But we had strength. We had spirit. We wanted to fight. We wanted to fight for our families. That was the greatest thing.

These workers, I didn't know them much, but I learned how -- I began to know them.

What was the most difficult moment? The most difficult moment was that -- there were very difficult moments but was when the air cleared and we saw the rock. When I saw the rock, it just made me -- I just thought I was in a movie and many thought it would be a day or two days.

KING: We're watching just another special edition of LARRY KING LIVE.

Listening to an interview of Luis Urzua, the 33rd miner, last one brought to freedom. He was the shift supervisor. You're looking at him.

He and his leadership credited, by the way, with keeping the men alive. He volunteered, by the way, to stay in the mine until all of the other men were out.

He is 54 years old, and except for the five rescuers now still down there, this ordeal, what many are now calling a miracle, it's over. It is certainly a happy ending. You couldn't write fiction like this.

Let's listen to a little more. We'll check in with Gary Tuchman and meet our special guest tonight, a man whoever you agree or disagree with, certainly stood up for the little man, Michael Moore.

Let's listen to a little more of Luis Urzua.

URZUA (through translator): Colleagues were able to get out or not.

We -- we made several attempts.

We didn't know what was going on. We couldn't see.

PINERA (through translator): How long did it take for the dust to settle?

URZUA: About three hours.

Then we were able to see really what happened. Then we realized. We tried to start looking for the other miners.

PINERA: You have no idea how all of the Chileans shared the anguish, the hope, and the happiness.

URZUA: I think the first five days we were sure there was work being done on the mine but we thought it was just going to be difficult -- then, in my experience I knew it was going to be difficult, the way things were.

PINERA: At the beginning, we didn't know where you were, we didn't know if you were dead or alive, until this arrived.

We cried. In all of the homes in Chile, we cried with happiness, with emotion. That must have been around 6:00 a.m.

URZUA: We had a protocol, we knew -- forget about the protocol. We forgot about the protocol. Everybody wanted to hug the hammer. They had several little papers, notes, I'm hungry. Send a message to the family.

I believe the ones that had to arrive, arrived.

PINERA: It was so -- the emotion, underground and up here, we'll never forget this, the anguish and the anxiety and the happiness, when the last one came out, the captain, the boss. We were all so happy.

Morale would fall but we had strength. We had strength for the workers, we tell them what happened, your son was here, your family was here, they never lost hope.

Every time I came to the mine, they said, they're alive, they're alive, they're alive.

URZUA: I think I believe those of us had faith that held on to hope, that someday we'll be rescued. We thank God that the first 17 days, the first 17 days you almost didn't eat. We had very little food. But when you had to administer it, then the last, the last day we're eating very little because we want to leave something for later.

PINERA: You haven't seen your daughter, Noella (ph). We love you. You deserve to celebrate.

I think this is a moment in history. There's a reason why God does things. I hope this will be for the best.

Maybe this will be an example. You're not the same. And the country is not the same after this. You are an inspiration. Go hug your wife and your daughter.

KING: That was President Sebastian Pinera talking with last miner, Luis Urzua, commenting about the president, he can make a pretty good interview host. A pretty good questioning. He somewhat reminded me maybe of Bill Clinton, in a way.

Anyway, quite a scene. You will never see anything like this again.

Michael Moore is an Academy Award-winning documentary filmmaker, a best-selling author and a recipient of this year's John Steinbeck Award. That would be given to him tomorrow from Steinbeck Studies at San Jose University in San Jose, California. I had the honor, as I told him before we went on the air, of interviewing the great John Steinbeck once.

Congratulations.

MICHAEL MOORE, FILMMAKER: Thank you very much. KING: What do you make of this story?

MOORE: Well, it's very emotional. I mean, it's really an amazing feat.

You know, in time when there's not a lot of good news, for something like this to happen I think is -- makes people feel really good.

I was thinking, sitting here, watching this, that the next time we have hole in the Gulf of Mexico, we need to call in the Chilean government.

(LAUGHTER)

MOORE: I mean, it took -- they did this in, what? How many months were they down there? It was like two --

KING: Three.

MOORE: They were down there three months.

KING: Two.

MOORE: Two months, and so, the hole in the Gulf was just a few days short of three months. So, it took us three months to plug seven-inch diameter hole. All there was was oil, there weren't human beings down there. It was just oil gushing out. But it was just seven inches wide.

And they got these guys out -- this is amazing that they did this. It shows what can be done when your priorities are straight. Unfortunately, the priorities with the BP disaster --

KING: You never (INAUDIBLE). You can't just let it set.

(CROSSTALK)

MOORE: I just think why can't we -- we're the United States of America. We're capable of so much. And I think back, and you did shows on this back in April, whether we had our mining disaster at the Upper Big Branch in West Virginia, 29 miners died.

And it -- you know, when I see breaking news come on, whether it's CNN or any of these other networks, the words -- the words have sort of been cheapened in a way because, you know, we put it up for everything now. You put it up for Paris Hilton going to jail, breaking news -- you know, everything is breaking news.

And I would love to see our networks do breaking news when big coal and big mining interests are testifying in front of Congress like they were.

KING: We will get back to that.

MOORE: I mean, this is -- I mean, this is really -- this is an issue that our miners are in jeopardy. That mine where we lost 29 miners, Massey Energy owns it. They had 1,100 -- 1,100 safety violations in three years leading up to that.

KING: Before we get back to Michael Moore, let's go back down to the San Jose mine and Karl Penhaul is there, and has been reporting tremendously on all of this for so many days.

Karl, what's the scene like?

KARL PENHAUL, CNN CORRESPONDEN: Absolutely tremendous scenes there, Larry, the last miner out of the hole, Luis Urzua.

Now, there is a man that understands his duty. There's a man who understands his responsibility. On August the 5th when that mine collapsed, he was the shift foreman, and he had told the rescue workers that he wanted to make sure that all of the men on his shift were up to the surface safely before he boarded the Phoenix rescue capsule. And that is exactly what happened.

Throughout this crisis, throughout this ordeal, when the miners have sent videos to the surface, we have seen Luis Urzua playing the role of a silent giant -- a giant not because of his size, but because of what he was doing. Everywhere in those videos, you saw him surrounded by diagrams and plans, mapping out a survival strategy for these 33 miners, mapping out how they would survive on four cans of tuna per man for 17 days, mapping out how they would divide the 33 men in three work shifts to keep them occupied and to keep their minds off of what could have been impending death.

And now, he has sent his 32 colleagues to the surface, he boarded the Phoenix capsule and he rode to the surface as well. His ride took him about 10 minutes.

And when he got to the surface, he was greeted like all of the other miners by the Chilean president, President Sebastian Pinera, and the words from the president said it all. He said, "Mr. Urzua, your shift is over."

The shift that began on August 5th is over. Thirty-three miners, back on the surface. Thirty-three miners back safe and sound, Larry.

KING: Well said, Karl. And we'll be back with more of this special edition of LARRY KING LIVE right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(CHEERS)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: That's a lot.

What you're watching is the scene took place about 22, 23 minutes ago, when Luis Urzua, the last miner, arrived. There are still five rescuers down there. He was the foreman of this operation and conducted a lengthy interview with the president of Chile, very informative interview, which I'm sure will be repeated frequently over the next 24 to 48 hours.

And happiness of the Chilean people and the singing of the Chilean national anthem, also took place shortly after. There's the president of Chile.

Let's check in with Gary Tuchman, our CNN correspondent. He's been on the scene covering this incredible operation.

How come, Gary, last night when we spoke, you thought it might take until Thursday night or Friday? How did it speed up?

GARY TUCHMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's funny, Larry. We were talking 24 hours ago. It was the beginning of the process. We were all very nervous because we weren't sure, 100 percent sure, this would work. And we were also told that it would likely take 33 to 36 hours.

But what happened was this: first of all, it's a great, amazing story. We're exuberant.

(CROSSTALK)

KING: Addressing the crowd, President Pinera. Let's listen to President Pinera. We'll come back to you.

PINERA (through translator): He gave us words of encouragement and he was the last one to leave the mine who was like a foreman who respects and the ones that worked with him. And also would like to thank the families of all of the miners who kept their faith, their unwavering faith, the faith that moved mountains.

The rescue workers that gave themselves completely to Minister Golborne and Minister Manalich and Andres Sougarett and Rene Aguilar and so many others that just gave themselves in body and soul, and they gave everything throughout the 69 days, and to the Chileans, all of the Chileans through our entire country that always gave words of encouragement. They gave a gesture, a smile. We filled your support of all of the Chileans.

And today, Chile is not the same country that we had 69 days ago. The miners are not the same that were trapped on August 5th. They came back stronger.

They had given us a lesson but Chile's not the same. I think Chile's more unified and stronger than ever. And Chile today is more respected and valued in the world.

What has ended as a true blessing from God started as a possible tragedy but unity, the faith, commitment, loyalty, solidarity that the Chileans expressed during this 69 days just fills us with pride. And I would like to thank, especially God, who was with us and tell him that today I feel that Chile's ready for great things. We are ready to face whatever the future brings and I am sure that I am saying -- I'm saying this for all of the Chileans to say from the bottom of my heart -- Viva Chile!

There are moments that emotions just go inside and you feel it and you cannot express it, and there's moment that it just comes right out. And when I saw the face of Luis Urzua, the last miner to come out of the mine, I was -- I was -- just felt these feelings, as I feel them today, and as every Chilean is feeling them. And I would like to thank and I would like to tell them that I feel so proud to have the privilege and the responsibility to be the president of all of the Chileans.

There's -- there will be celebrations in all of the centers, all the cities of Chile. But the most important one of all is the one that we're celebrating in our hearts and in our conscience and in all of Chileans. I know that the church bells went off on all of the churches throughout the country and then again with happiness, with gratitude, with emotion, when the last one, last miner came out.

We told you the first day, we said at the first day, this will not remain -- those who are responsible for this will have to assume responsibility, but it also has been a big lesson for all Chileans, for our government. We need to improve our systems, our attitudes, our procedures so that we can take better care of the lives, the integrity and the dignity of our workers, and not only in mining but also in farming and construction and transportation and fishing. This is something that we owe to all of the Chileans. And I hope that in some days, I can announce a new treaty with the workers, all of the workers in Chile.

Listen, it's been just very important to receive all these words of admiration, these feelings, the encouragement and gratitude because other presidents would tell me, I would like to thank the Chileans for the lessons they have shown us.

I was able to speak with President Lula from Brazil, with President Calderon from Mexico, from President Chavez from Venezuela, President Santos of Colombia, President Correa of Ecuador, President Garcia of Peru, President Fernando of Argentina, President Mujica of Uruguay, President Lugo of Paraguay, First (ph) Minister of England, David Cameron, Prime Minister of Israel, Benjamin Netanyahu, and many others -- many others, which shows Chile was notice heart not only of the Chileans and people in Latin America, but we were in the hearts of the world.

And we showed the best of Chile -- the unity, the loyalty, the solidarity, the unbeatable faith and unbreakable faith, and it has been a night of great emotions, great happiness. It's a night that will forever remain in the bottoms of our heart.

The survivors of the Andes, the Uruguayans who fell of a plane in the Andes in the 1970s, they were an example, a lesson, that today remains and I believe the miners will have this -- present the same example, their attitude, their strength, their friendship, the miners would fight to be the last one to leave, to exit the mine. They didn't want the privilege of being the first one to exit the mine. They wanted to be the last ones. It's a show of solidarity, of love for their colleagues. Mr. Urzua told me one thing that I had forgotten -- the first thing that the miners said when they were able to communicate themselves with the rest of the world was anxious, anxious, anxious. Seventeen days, they wanted to know what had happened to their colleagues, the ones, the other miners. They had no idea what happened to them. Their first worry was for their colleague.

They didn't want something --

KING: You're watching an address by President Pinera who interviewed Luis Urzua, the last miner to come up. Our special guest for the evening has been curtailed somewhat by, I think, a story even he would admit is bigger than him, Michael Moore, the Academy Award- winning documentary filmmaker who will tomorrow night receive the coveted John Steinbeck Award. That award has been received by Arthur Miller, Bruce Springsteen, Garrison Keillar, Joan Baez, and Sean Penn.

Forgetting politics, he is impressive, this president, is he not?

MICHAEL MOORE, DOCUMENTARY FILMMAKER: Yes. He's got -- he seemed to have a lot of compassion and empathy for the workers when they came out. And he's got a full head of hair.

KING: Do you know if the miners -- if that's a private company in Chile? Or is that a -- he said we'll sign a treaty.

MOORE: I think they meant a contract with the union or -- it sounds like they've got other problems with other industries, as you know -- I think -- first of all, Chile has their own wind breaker. Look at that, I mean, that's pretty cool.

KING: That's your comment? They have their own wind breaker.

MOORE: I think we need our own wind breakers. Everything I've seen here I love, the fact that they saved these guys lives.

KING: They sing the national anthem. They have pride in their country.

MOORE: They're happy -- yes, why shouldn't they be? They're all --

KING: As we said earlier -- we didn't get a chance to elaborate -- you have always -- even people who oppose you vigorously know that you're a spokesman for the little guy.

MOORE: You know, I just think it -- I don't want to be the buzz kill here. This is such a wonderful event.

KING: Don't do that, Michael.

MOORE: No, I think when you look at their country -- if we can just keep referring to them for a few more minutes --, you know, nobody last month in Chile lost their home because they couldn't afford to pay a doctor. They have universal health care in their country. If a country like that can have that, why don't we have that?

In our country in just the month of August, we had something like -- I just heard it on CNN -- 400,000 people were foreclosed upon, their homes, 400,000 kicked out of their homes by banks who have committed what I think are criminal actions and need to be investigated. We allow this to go on. I just think -- I don't know. I -- I -- to go back to the miners, if you don't mind, that lost their lives in our country, back in April --

KING: That is a precarious occupation, is it not? Sure, there have been faults. And companies have committed some dastardly acts at times. But you know when you step in a mine, you're in a risky business.

MOORE: You also should expect by the 21st century to be able to live and not to have to worry about losing your life. The larger issue is that the coal that they're digging out of these mines --

KING: This is gold, I think.

MOORE: Yes. Or the United States -- is a finite resource. We will run out of that coal. We will run out of this oil. And that's even a larger discussion that's probably not for this show tonight to have. But what they were actually down there doing is something that ultimately, when burned, is melting our Polaris Caps, and is not an infinite resource.

KING: We said we would talk politics and we will, with Michael Moore, right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KING: Let's back to Gary Tuchman, our CNN correspondent at the scene. Everybody still hanging around, Gary?

TUCHMAN: Larry, I can tell you in this area where they allowed members of the news media, we're the closest civilians to the rescue site. People are now starting to leave. And they leave happily. It's kind of like the end of a baseball game where your team wins and people are satisfied. That's kind of the feeling, that people are smiling. Members of the news media, the police who are here, everyone's in a really good mood.

I was telling you this before -- I wasn't sure if you heard this or not before the news conference started, but, you know, it's very rare that we get to cover good news stories that are breaking news stories. And we did this time. And we were worried, concerned when I was talking to you last night when this event started. We hoped it would be safe, but we didn't know. The first man that came up reassured us. Now that all 33 are up, it's really an amazing feeling.

KING: Five rescuers, are we reporting on their coming up? Has one come back up already?

TUCHMAN: Yes, I think it's very important that we don't forget about them. Right now, you can see one has come up. When that wheel turns counter-clockwise, like it's turning, it means it's going back down, the capsule, to pick up the second rescue official. So we expect in the next 15 minutes the second one will come up. And we expect within the next hour and 15 minutes, all five will be up.

And then that shaft, that 2,000 foot tunnel will be closed for eternity.

KING: What was the role of the rescuer who went down? Those five did what, Gary?

TUCHMAN: Yeah, it was important they go down, because we don't know anything about this. And frankly, a lot of people don't know much about this even in this industry, rescuing miners who were down there. But you couldn't have them do this on their own. What if they panicked? What if someone forgot to bring what they were supposed to bring with them. So these guys went down to make sure that everything was in order, that they had the right clothes on, that they were mentally prepares, that they were physically prepared, that there were no last-minute illnesses that was cause any problems. And they made sure that everything was done in an organized fashion and that everyone was calm. And it certainly worked out well.

KING: You say they are going to close off this mine now. Aren't they going to conduct an investigation as to what caused all this? If they do that, don't they have to leave it open? Won't they learn a lot by going down?

TUCHMAN: Yes, I should be very specific, as far as this entire copper and gold mine -- that's what this is, a copper and gold mine -- there's a good chance it will entirely close down. We don't know for sure about that yet. But that particular pit, that particular 2,300- foot pit where these gentlemen were trapped, that will be closed for eternity. That will never be mined in again, that particular area.

KING: Gary, are miners still working in other areas, in other pits, near there?

TUCHMAN: Well, northern Chile, in the deserts of northern Chile, are very popular mining areas. There are a lot of mines in Chile in this particular area. This particular mine, there's no work going on whatsoever. But there are miners all over this country in this area. And Chile has had its share of problems over the years, much more, for example, than the United States.

KING: A lot of mining problems in Chile?

TUCHMAN: Yeah. No, they've had disasters before. I mean, that's why this was so important to the Chilean people that these men were rescued, because they were so used to accidents that led to tragedies, that led to deaths. That was the initial fear here. It was 17 days that these men were missing. And most people, frankly, presumed them dead. These men were underground and may have presumed that people forgot about them, that maybe they would never be found.

So it was such a joyous celebration in this country when they found out all the men were alive. Now another joyous celebration that all men have been rescued and are home with their families and loves ones.

KING: When we come back, Gary, I'm going to ask you and Michael Moore the same thing. We who cover these things, comment on them, write about them, what do we wonder about why these men do what they do. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KING: Gary, before we let you get some rest -- and we'll ask Michael the same thing -- we cover these things, comment on them, report on them. Do you wonder why these men do what they do, Gary Tuchman?

TUCHMAN: I've actually done a story on that before, Larry. And why they do what they do is complex. But it comes down to this: mining in many communities -- leave this in the United States, because this is what I know. But mining in many communities is the best- paying job in the community. It pays relatively well. Mining is in many depresses areas in the United States, where there are not a lot of jobs.

But, perhaps more importantly, mining is a real generational occupation. Many people are third, fourth, fifth generation miners. So it's what they know. And it pays well. And that combination is irresistible to many people.

KING: And they don't want to break away and travel far from the scene and not be -- let's say, having to do what their father did or does?

TUCHMAN: Well, some certainly do, you know, try to get another job or move away. But it's what people know. And there's also -- I must emphasize this -- a lot of pride in it. They know they're helping America with its energy situation. And their father did it and their grandfather did it and their great-grandfather did it. So there's a lot of pride. It pays well. It's generational. And it's what they know.

KING: Thanks, Gary. Hang tough. We might come back. Michael Moore, I remember John L. Lewis and the United Mine Workers, the trouble he had with Harry Truman, because they could stop America, the mine workers, at least in a time of conflict.

MOORE: Back in that era, over a third of the workforce -- a third of all workers were part of a union. And unions had real power and real strength. Beginning in 1981, under Ronald Reagan, when he fired the air traffic controllers and he destroyed that union that set a real tone and unions have been on the downside ever since.

KING: Have you ever investigated the mines as a subject?

MOORE: No, I haven't. No. And I think what Gary said is true. I think people -- I grew up in a factory town, Flint, Michigan. And people -- you know, your grandfather worked in the factory, your dad worked in the factory, you were supposed to work in the factory. And that's pretty much how -- I'm sure it's very similar in West Virginia like that. Nobody in Sherman Oaks is high school right now thinking, I can't wait to grow up and be a miner.

KING: No one travels to get a job in the mines. But it is generally well-paying, isn't it?

MOORE: It's a good-paying union job.

KING: Yeah.

MOORE: But it is dangerous. And since -- during the Bush years, when mining safety was regulated and safety standards were relaxed, that's when you started having all these incidents increasing, again this Massey Energy, which owns that mine where the workers were killed back in April. Nobody was really investigating this. I mean, really, including the media wasn't doing their job.

We're on these mine stories when there's a story like this. But when these safety violations are building up -- the month before those miners died, Massey had 50 violations cited, 50 violations in the very month before the workers were killed. There wasn't breaking news. There wasn't everybody -- journalism doing it's job. And this is why I just think, you know, we should think about that in times like this, a night like this, good news. And there's ways to avoid the bad news, if we -- if we have strong regulations in place that protect our workers. But those have been --

KING: Don't we learn from things like this?

MOORE: Do we learn? Are you serious? What you mean, what the United States? We as Americans learn?

KING: Any society?

MOORE: What do we learn from this? That we need safer --

KING: Hopefully that we strengthen the rules concerning safety. And it's a precarious job, but we try to make it as safe as -- hopefully we're human beings we --

MOORE: We don't make it as safe as possible. In fact, the mining companies have done everything they can do get away with murder. And literally it has resulted in murder. And it's forgotten. I wonder just when I brought it up a half hour ago, I wonder how many people listening to the show right now were even thinking, as we're watching this, that we didn't have this happy result.

KING: Michael, we want to experience joy for a little while.

MOORE: We want to experience joy because there isn't a lot of joy. People in this country right now are living from pay check to pay check. I live in a state, Michigan, where official unemployment rate has been 15 percent, It's really closer to 20 and 25 percent. The foreclosures I discussed. One out of five people -- five homes now either in foreclosure or facing foreclosure in just that one month.

KING: I want to ask you -- MOORE: Can I say this, though? People watching this, the reason why there's this -- a sense of joy over this is that the American people watching this feel trapped. There's a sense of really being trapped, and there's a lot -- not a lot of good news these days.

So this is a nice thing. This is a good thing. Makes us feel good. But hopefully, you know, tomorrow maybe we can think about how we treat our miners.

KING: Are we going to affect political change? We'll ask your opinion of that right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KING: There was a debate early tonight narrated -- moderated by our own Wolf Blitzer, between Chris Coons, the Democrat, and the Republican, Christine O'Donnell running for a now focused on Senate race in Delaware. And Ms. O'Donnell was asked her opinion on evolution. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: In a television appearance back in 1998 on Bill Maher's show, you said evolution is a myth. Do you believe evolution is a myth?

CHRISTINE O'DONNELL (R), CANDIDATE FOR SENATE FROM DELAWARE: I believe that the local -- I was talking about what a local school taught, and that should be taught -- that should be decided on the local community. But please let me respond to what he just said.

BLITZER: We'll let you respond, but answer the question. Do you believe evolution is a myth?

O'DONNELL: Local schools should make that decision, I made that remark based on --

BLITZER: What do you believe?

O'DONNELL: What I believe is irrelevant.

BLITZER: Why is it irrelevant? Voters want to know.

O'DONNELL: What I will support in Washington, D.C., is the ability for the local school system to decide what is taught in their classrooms. And what I was talking about on that show was a classroom that was not allowed to teach creationism as an equal theory as evolution. That is against their constitutional rights. And that is an over-reaching arm of the government.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: I don't know, is it a constitutional right to teach evolution or non-evolution in the public schools? I don't mean to laugh, because she has a point, does she not? Shouldn't a school district be entitled to teach what it wishes? MOORE: Our schools are required to teach the truth. And the truth is -- is that we evolved over literally millions of years.

KING: Still called a theory, though.

MOORE: Who calls it a theory?

KING: It's called the theory of evolution, isn't it?

MOORE: Well, I don't know. I think of it as the truth.

KING: OK.

MOORE: I guess I -- and, frankly, what I don't understand about the Christian right is you would think they would want to claim evolution as one of God's most genius acts, that all of this came about in the way that science has shown us that it has come about.

KING: Some religions do.

MOORE: Yes. Well -- but the people that are running this year, are on this year's ballot in November -- I mean, this is the biggest box of Fruit Loops I've seen in quite some time.

KING: Fruit Loops?

MOORE: Yes. Or if you want to give Cracker Jacks a plug, that too. These -- I've just never seen a weirder bunch, from I'm not a witch to Carl Paladino in New York and his whole weird thing, and the guy in the Nazi uniform, likes to play a Nazi. I mean, this is -- usually it's -- at election time, you want to think about throwing the bums out. The Republicans seem to have a policy this year of wanting to throw the bums in.

This makes absolutely no sense. So I'm -- I'm feeling better every day, frankly, because I have a lot of faith in the American people's sense of judgment, sense of humor, and understanding, you know, what's wacko and what isn't.

KING: -- they see this pay off in the polls?

MOORE: I don't know that, because every day the Democrats get together in the morning and try and figure out, geez, how can we -- I think we're not going to lose this by a big enough margin. What can we do today? So you have -- after all these people calling for a moratorium on these foreclosures, Axelrod on this past Sunday on the morning talk shows and then President Obama saying, no, no, we have to protect the banks, and we can't do that, and we're not going to put a --

You would think of all the issues right now, they would just snatch this thing and go, you know what, my fellow Americans? We're not going to kick you out of your home for the next few months until we get this figured out, because it seems that the banks of America have committed fraud, or something is going on here, because they can't seem to find the paperwork. And as I pointed out in my film last year -- when I was on this show, we showed this clip of Congresswoman Marcy Kaptur, from Toledo, who points out that these banks, Larry, don't actually have the mortgage papers they're trying to use to throw you out of the house. That mortgage was divided up a thousand ways, bundled, and sold to somebody in China. And people should not leave their homes was her point.

If they're trying to foreclosure, do not leave your home. You have standing in the court. You just walk into the court and say, produce the mortgage. They can't produce the mortgage.

KING: Let me get a break and we'll come back with some more of Michael Moore. And as we always say with him, we keep trying to get an opinion out of him, to try to draw him out, the man is just status quo. Don't go away.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KING: George Clooney is tomorrow night's guest. What's going to happen in November? We have less than a minute.

MOORE: What's going to happen tomorrow night with George Clooney? I think that's what America's asking right now, Larry. We've got, what, 40 seconds? What's going to happen in November? Let me look into my crystal ball. Democrats have got three weeks, what, from today. Get a spine. If you're a Democratic politician, stand up and come out swinging for the working people of this country. And maybe you'll inspire them to get to the polls.

People have got to vote. We cannot go back to what we had during the eight years under Bush and Cheney. That was a catastrophe that we're living through now. Obama inherited it. Unfortunately, he didn't really go for it. But we'll give him a couple more years to do that.

KING: Out of time.

MOORE: And Anderson Cooper, if you could just take it away right now and just continue my thought, I'd appreciate it.

KING: Thank you. You're watching Michael Moore Live, and we turn it over to Anderson Cooper and "AC 360."