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American Morning

New Terror Threats in Europe; Where in the World in Bin Laden?; Obama 2.0: Change in Works for Next Two Years; Divorce Without Separation; Black Churches Across America Facing Foreclosure

Aired October 18, 2010 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

KIRAN CHETRY, CNN ANCHOR: Happy Monday. Glad you're with us on this AMERICAN MORNING. It's 7:00 here in New York on this October 18th. I'm Kiran Chetry.

JOHN ROBERTS, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning to you. I'm John Roberts. Well, a pretty incredible what Eric Larsen did. If you ask anybody out there, how did you spend your last year? You wouldn't expect anybody to say, well, I skied to the North Pole, skied to the South Pole, and I climbed Mt. Everest in October.

CHETRY: Yes, amazing. And the scariest part that he's doing is he's an adventurer and explorer and environmentalist, he wanted to raise awareness about marked changes he's seen in the last great frozen places even over the past few years. It's amazing. He said when you're climbing Everest, you can see areas where glaciers once were.

ROBERTS: The personal accomplishment is pretty incredible, let alone the science aspect on it.

CHETRY: It is.

ROBERTS: Let's get you caught up. Two major terror stories developing this morning. Europe on high alert after Saudi officials say Al Qaeda is targeting the continent, especially France.

Also, there's new information about where Osama bin Laden may be hiding. Our Barbara Starr is live in Afghanistan this morning with more on the hunt for the most wanted man in the world.

CHETRY: Well, if you use Facebook, and millions of you do, listen up to this one, a breach of privacy being reported this morning. Tens of millions of users on the social networking site are reportedly affected. We're going to tell you who may have gotten information about you and your Facebook friends in just a moment.

ROBERTS: Living together when the marriage is over -- the economic downturn places major stresses on divorced couples who can't afford to move out of the family home. Our Christine Romans explains why breaking up is hard to do these days.

CHETRY: Up first, an "A.M." security watch for you. And two major terrorist stories on the radar this morning, first, target Europe. France is on high alert right now after Saudi officials specifically named that country in a new terror threat warning from Al Qaeda.

There's also new information on where Osama bin Laden may be hiding. A senior NATO official spoke to our Barbara Starr about the hunt for the terror leader and his number two and says they actually may not be too far apart.

First, though, we go to Nic, who is having more now on Europe and how they are responding to this latest threat. And Nic, specifically, France -- we heard about, of course, the two warnings for the Eiffel tower, two times over the past month the Eiffel tower's been shut down. What are the new concerns this morning?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, the new concern is this active or about to be active terror threat that France's interior minister announced on the radio in France yesterday.

This information, he says, comes from Saudi authorities. They say that they're not raising the terror threat level in right now yet per se. But he says that France is vigilant. But what he does say is that this means that the terror threat is very real. Those were his words.

And the fact that the interior minister went on French radio to talk about this, he said it was information that had come in just recently in the last hours or days from Saudi officials. So this does seem to highlight concern, real concern that the French have right now.

But not at the moment, Kiran, raising their threat level higher. It's at the second highest level. They're not putting it at the maximum level yet, Kiran.

CHETRY: So there are concerns there and in the broader picture in Europe for the past month we've been talking about concerns, as well, after information came from a German detained in Afghanistan, as well, about a possible terror threat.

So all of this taken together, is there any actionable intelligence at this point? Or is it just an overall heightened vigilance that they're calling for?

ROBERTSON: You know, I think on the German side the actual intelligence was actioned on because some of that group were killed in a drone group in Pakistan. And in fact, the leader of the group, a former very close confidant of some of the 9/11 plotters, was killed along with others from that group in Afghanistan.

The Germans have another got another lead on another person they have being questioned right now. But what this shows us in the big picture here, Kiran, is what we've always known about Al Qaeda, that they want to target in the west, they'd like to target the United States, but Europe seems to be an easier target for them right now. U.S. nationals inside Europe could also be part of that easier option for them.

But Al Qaeda in some parts senses it can't carry out another 9/11, but it is getting more organized to try to carry out the attacks it would like to carry out. But, again, French interior minister said two threats thwarted this past year.

CHETRY: Nic Robertson for this morning from London with the latest on this, thanks so much.

ROBERTS: And our Barbara Starr also talked with NATO officials who were tracking the potential whereabouts of Osama bin Laden. We'll be talking to her later on this hour, as well.

Also new this morning, a privacy breach at Facebook impacting tens of millions of users. The "Wall Street Journal" reports most of the popular apps on the social networking site -- listen to this -- have been transmitting profile names to advertising and Internet tracking companies. In some cases according to the report, the names of a user's friends are being transmitted.

A spokesperson for Facebook tells us that immediate steps are being taken. So far there's no evidence the personal information was misused.

CHETRY: About a dozen rescued Chilean miners returned to the scene of their long ordeal Sunday for a private mass. They gathered with family members. The miners are not talking. One of them says they've made a pact to keep quiet amid reports of a pending book deal.

ROBERTS: And actor Sean Connery has rejected a judge's request to testify in a tax evasion and money laundering in Spain. The case involves a vacation property that Connery used to own. The 80 year old actor citing his age and unspecified health issues said those are the reasons he could not attend.

Well, now to Barbara Starr, who's in Afghanistan, talking with senior NATO officials about information regarding the potential whereabouts of Osama bin Laden pointing to northwest Pakistan. She's on the phone with us this morning. Barbara, what are you learning today?

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, John, good morning. It's funny, when you come here, most of the time people will tell you, oh, with don't know anything about where bin Laden is. That's not the answer I got when I spoke to a senior NATO official who said the best assessment right now indeed is he is very much alive, living in relative comfort, and he is in northwest Pakistan.

As this official said, nobody in the Al Qaeda leadership is out living in a cave right now. But they are in homes, living in relative comfort, and the belief is that Osama bin Laden is, in fact, probably living nearby his number two Dr. Ayman al-Zawahiri. Together, that would be a security risk. And that he may have arranged at some point over some wide area over northwest Pakistan. He could've gone as far north as an area near the Chinese border.

But he may very well be in an interesting area called the Kurram Valley of Pakistan, which basically is right across the border from where Tora Bora where he fled Afghanistan in late 2001 when the U.S. military was bombing that area, John.

ROBERTS: So it sounds like he never got too far in the fall of 2001. But what's the sense there in Afghanistan? I mean, obviously, it might have some impact on terror threats because it's believed that bin Laden signed off on this latest terror threat against targets in Europe. But if he's caught, killed, whatever, is it going to make a difference there in Afghanistan?

STARR: Well, you know, that's the thing. The overwhelming feeling is it will not make a difference on the ground here in Afghanistan. The question remains, is there progress or isn't there?

Now, General David Petraeus is very adamant that there is progress, that they are moving forward here, and that they are making -- he will be able to report to president Obama right during the election season later this year that they are making progress.

But this top NATO official I spoke to had somewhat of a more nuanced view. Listen to this. He says right now there is the ability of the insurgency to still muster upwards of 30,000 fighters both in Afghanistan and Pakistan, and that there perhaps as many as a million disaffected young men in this area aged 15 to 25.

And unless the Afghan government of Hamid Karzai can begin to deal with those challenges, there is no way this is all going to work out. John?

ROBERTS: Yes, it continues to be a major problem. Barbara Starr for us on the ground in Afghanistan, thanks.

CHETRY: All right, it's nine minutes past the hour right now.

(WEATHER BREAK)

ROBERTS: President Obama facing the potential for major losses at the polls in a couple of weeks. It's been a difficult first couple of years in office. What about the second two years? Is the White House preparing to reboot? We talked to Peter Baker of the "New York Times" coming right up. It's 11 minutes after the hour.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ROBERTS: It's 14 minutes after the hour now.

This morning, new details about President Obama's plan for his second two years in office being called by some people in the administration "Obama 2.0." It all comes as the new AP polls say 63 percent of Obama supporters who wanted change now think it's never going to happen.

The speech he gave while accepting the Democratic nomination back in June of 2008 seems a world away now. Have a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, (D) PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: We will be able to look back and tell our children that this was the moment when we began to provide care for the sick and good jobs to the jobless. This was the moment when the rise of the ocean began to slow and our planet began to heal. This was the moment when we ended a war and secured our nation and restored our image as the last best hope on earth.

(APPLAUSE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERTS: Our next guest talked to the president about that very speech and what he thinks of it all now. He also asked what the next two years are going to look like.

Peter Baker is the White House correspondent for the "New York Times." Reported the cover story in the "Times" magazine this weekend, "The Education of a President: What Barack Obama Has Done and Hasn't and What Being President Has Done to Him."

Peter, great to see you this morning. Thanks so much for being with us.

PETER BAKER, WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, "NEW YORK TIMES": Hey, thanks for having me. Appreciate it.

ROBERTS: You know, you also -- the president also said, you know, describing that speech that the journey is going to be difficult, the road will be long. It has by any accounts been a long and difficult couple of years. What's gone right? What's gone wrong for the president?

BAKER: Well, obviously, he's managed to push through Congress one of the most, you know, ambitious domestic agendas of any president really in a generation. He's also managed to make big changes in Iraq and Afghanistan in terms of our troop presence there. Going down in one and up in the other. But for all that, there's a lot obviously disillusionment among his own supporters and a lot of anger among people who didn't support him in the first place.

Now, I got a chance to ask him about that very speech you showed right there because I thought it was really emblematic as one of the moments in his campaign where he manages to sort of inspire and capture the hopes of a lot of Americans and where we are today two years later.

He acknowledges, look, that sounds ambitious today. But you know, he swiped at the old Mario Cuomo line. You campaign in poetry, you govern in prose. And, you know, the prose is a lot harder. It's just not nearly as easy to keep the public behind you when you're going through the nitty-gritty of all these difficult projects and programs in a down economy.

ROBERTS: You mentioned how White House staff is feeling. And, you know, to some degree, I guess they're exhausted. You described them as being bruised and dejected. You say, quote, "Many officials worry they say that the best days of the Obama presidency are behind them." I mean, at this point, they should just be hitting their stride. BAKER: Well, certainly they should, obviously. But they're feeling pretty exhausted. They feel like they did get through a lot of important things. Financial regulation, obviously. Stimulus, health care, education reform. And if they look at the next two years and see an environment ahead of them in which looks a lot less likely that they're going to be able to do the big transformative things.

These next two years might be a lot more about implementation of the things that they've already done and defending them against what will no doubt be counterattacks by Republicans in Congress who will be emboldened in one fashion and challenges in the court where he's going to have to defend why he's done what he's done in terms of health care. So that's a lot less exciting, I think, to a lot of people who work at the White House than have a chance to, you know, push through a lot of transformative initiatives.

ROBERTS: You know, our David Gergen a few weeks back was describing this White House and he's somewhat puzzled by what's going on. He says usually administrations get more competent over time, not less competent. He's looking at what's going on there in Washington and really scratching his head. So you talked to President Obama about what the next two years are going to be like. Kind of this idea of a reboot, bringing out Obama 2.0. What's that going to look like?

BAKER: Right. Well, you know, we talked for an hour in the Oval Office, kind of chewing over these sorts of lessons and so forth. He doesn't have any regrets about the big ideas, the big things he's done. But he does have a number of tactical lessons that he thinks he sees that he's trying to adjust for in terms of the next two years.

One of the big things that he says he didn't do enough to rally public opinion behind him. He didn't do enough to win public support that he felt like he didn't have to do that. It was more important to focus on what was right about policy. To some extent, that's self justifying, obviously. But on the other hand, it is part of the president's duty to bring the public behind his policy otherwise they're not going to succeed. He's going to have to do that in these next two years.

ROBERTS: So how is he going to do that? What exactly is he going to do? You talk about defending health care legislation, but if you lose this control of Congress, if Democrats lose control of Congress in November, Republicans are going to spend the next year, at least, trying to undo health care reform.

BAKER: Well, that's right. And you see a lot of frustration among Democrats. The president hasn't been out there trying to sell what he's done more effectively. You know, he did promise when they passed it last spring I'm going to go out there and really explain to the country what we've done and make sure that they understand how good it's going to be for them.

In fact, he hasn't really done that very much. Poll numbers continue to show deal of skepticism of that program. And in fact, Democrats on the campaign trail sort of running away from it to some extent, at least not talking about it very much. So he's going to have to find a new way to explain that and defend that against Republicans. He's also going to -- he talked about whether or not he can work with Republicans after the elections. He said he does see some hope for that. That perhaps either, A, they're going to win and therefore feel some responsibility to govern, perhaps work with him more closely, or they'll fall short and perhaps they'll chase that their strategy didn't work.

ROBERTS: As we saw in the 1990s, Bill Clinton did manage to get some things done after Democrats lost Congress of Congress.

BAKER: That's exactly right. In fact, President Obama has been reading books about President Clinton lately, which is kind of ironic, of course, because he ran as the anti-Clinton to some extent in 2008. Right now, he's looking at President Clinton's example after the 1994 midterm elections that were so bad for the Democrats. And he's looking for possible, you know, clues to how President Clinton then came back two years later to win a pretty convincing reelection.

ROBERTS: Yes. He may need the history lesson. Peter Baker of the "New York Times," great to talk to you. Good article, recommended reading. Thanks so much.

BAKER: Hey, thanks so much. Good talking to you.

ROBERTS: Kiran?

CHETRY: Well, is this a sign of the economic times, John? Still ahead, people are divorcing, but they're not separating. They're still living together. Why the bad economy is making it impossible for some couples to move on.

Twenty minutes past the hour.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHETRY: Well, breaking up is hard to do when the economy is making life much more difficult for people who are getting divorced but are stuck with each other anyway.

ROBERTS: Yes, it's something that our Christine Romans is thinking about in her new book, "Smart is the New Rich." And she joins us now live.

You certainly are not thinking about it in your life.

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: My husband is like news alert, news alert.

ROBERTS: You just had a brand new baby.

ROMANS: Yes, number three in four years, so I'm too tired.

CHETRY: And nothing brings you closer together than a newborn.

ROMANS: Yes, because you don't ever talk to your spouse anymore because you're taking care of a newborn. Look, the recession is aftermath, something that has been tough for couples who have been trying to divorce. They're stuck in a house that they can't sell. That maybe a job loss means they can't afford to divorce. But divorce attorneys and financial planners, you guys, say the divorce freeze of the past couple of years is thawing and people are starting to move on again.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Good girl.

ROMANS (voice-over): We first introduced you to Sallie Gibson 18 months ago and found out breaking up really is hard to do. Sallie and her husband of 15 years were getting a divorce, but still living under one roof.

SALLIE GIBSON, DIVORCEE: My husband lives in the guest room. And he comes home on Wednesday nights early to have dinner with the kids. And the other nights he comes home late to give me my space. So it's -- it's not perfect. It's been difficult.

ROMANS: As legal bills for two divorce attorneys piled up, the couple switched to a less expensive mediator. But the situation with the house wasn't as simple.

GIBSON: Right now, there are 20 houses on the market in town that are in our price range. And there are no buyers. So my broker has pretty much prepared me that the house is going to sit for quite a while.

ROMANS: For Sallie, remaining financially sound meant remaining under the same roof as her ex-husband. But for some, getting a divorce isn't even an option. The American Academy of Matrimonial Lawyers says 57 percent of attorneys polled reported fewer divorces during the recession. The couple stayed in the home for a full year before deciding emotion trumped finances.

GIBSON: It was a very difficult time, a very emotional time. And we made the decision to sell the house and it could have easily sat on the market for a year and I didn't want to put my kids through that because it was tough enough. So I priced it to sell. And we sold the house right away. And I'm not going to lie, lost a lot of money, and that hurt.

ROMANS: Sally started over. Changing back to her maiden name, she downsized and started a small business as an interior designer out of her new home.

GIBSON: I've discovered a niche where I'm working with all of my clients right now who are divorced or separated. And so it's kind of nice to work with people that are in similar circumstances.

ROMANS: And if there's a silver lining for Sallie and her boys in their smaller home --

GIBSON: We spend a lot more time together as a family because there are fewer places for them to scurry away to. (END VIDEOTAPE)

ROMANS: She and her husband spent a year in the same home divorced. A lot of folks are going through this and they're trying to figure out how to move along.

If you have found yourself untying the knot, selling the house and moving on, some advice for you here. According to divorce financial planners, you need to prepared a net worth statement, a net worth assessment right away. You need to figure out who's going to pay for health care. This is something that divorce financial planners and attorneys are telling me is really important right now, because a lot of couples are trying to figure out who's going to handle health care costs until health care reform is -- and there's an open market to go buy health care on. Make contingencies in case one spouse loses a job, incredibly important.

And according to divorce financial planner, Gabrielle Clemens (ph), think not only five years ahead but 10 years and 20 years ahead. A lot of people are going back now to their divorce decree, the divorce agreements from a few years ago and they've realized a lot has changed.

So think ahead. Make sure you know. If your spouse, your ex-spouse loses a job, are you depending on that person for health care? Are you depending on that person's 401(k) still, or a pension or future benefits? You've got to really, you've got to plan far ahead.

CHETRY: It's depressing to think about.

ROMANS: It is, it is. And because it is depressing, I do want to bring along some other advice for you about people who are married today and the people who handle money well when they're married. Some advice for you about that.

Be honest about your finances if you're married today. Every study shows this is one of the most important things. You've got to talk openly about your finances. Spend less than you earn and pay down your debt. That sounds easy or maybe even a silly piece of advice, but there's a lot of research that shows that the thriftiest couples are the happiest across all incomes. Across all income categories, the families who live below --

ROBERTS: Yes. But you can reduce that stress that takes a big weight off your shoulders.

ROMANS: Absolutely. It's not everything that causes divorce, of course, but it's one important piece of the puzzle.

ROBERTS: I think couples fight about money more than anything else.

ROMANS: Oh, yes. I mean, and couples who fight more than once a week about money have a 30 percent higher chance of getting divorce.

CHETRY: Really?

ROBERTS: Thirty percent higher chance of living under the same roof.

ROMANS: Don't fight about money.

Yes, exactly. You thought it was bad married to that person. Now, you're divorced still living in the same house fighting about money.

ROBERTS: Thanks, Christine.

ROMANS: Sure.

ROBERTS: Well, coming up on the Most News in the Morning, the life of a handgun. How guns end up in the hands of criminals and what law enforcement officials are doing to get them back. Carol Costello's "A.M. Original" just ahead, as well. New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg joining us.

CHETRY: Good that you got that.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ROBERTS: Top stories as we cross the half hour. A new terror alert to tell you about this Monday morning. Saudi officials are warning that al Qaeda is targeting France. French police arrested a dozen suspects earlier this month with terrorist ties. The U.S. has already warned Americans to be careful traveling in Europe.

CHETRY: A privacy breach at Facebook. Most of the popular apps on the social networking site have been transmitting user names to advertising and Internet tracking companies. That's according to "The Wall Street Journal" today. Facebook says immediate steps are being taken to correct the problem and that there's no evidence any personal information was misused.

ROBERTS: And John McCain is promising to filibuster any attempt to repeal the military's "Don't ask, don't tell" policy that bans openly gay people from serving in the military. The Arizona senator tells a Phoenix television station he wants a thorough study conducted first on the effect that gay soldiers have on morale and battle effectiveness.

CHETRY: Time now for an "AM Original," something you'll see only on AMERICAN MORNING. Few things divide America more than the gun control debate.

ROBERTS: And so far, nothing we have done has been able to stop some weapons from getting into the wrong hands. And finding them is more than a full-time job. Our Carol Costello live for us in Washington this morning taking a look at the life of a gun in America. And you got a chance to get an inside look at a very interesting place.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It was a fascinating place. The ATF is the federal agency responsible for tracing firearms used in crimes, with over 340,000 traces performed just last year. That's a whole lot of work, especially when each trace has to be done by using paper records, microfilm and telephones. There are no shortcuts. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(voice-over): It all looks so "The Office," but what goes on behind these nondescript cubicles at the ATF's tracing center in the tiny town of Martinsburg, West Virginia...

CHARLIE HAUSER, ATF: We've got special scanning machines...

COSTELLO: ... can save a life or solve a violent crime. Chief Charlie Hauser.

HAUSER: Most investigators get to work on 10, 20 investigations per year. I'm involved in 350,000 every year.

COSTELLO: That's almost 1,000 investigations involving a gun used in a crime every day. The goal here is to help local, state and international police track the life of a gun and how it ends up in the hands of a criminal. For example, last year the ATF helped Ohio police trace more than 10,000 guns. It helped California investigators track more than 32,000 guns. And the list goes on.

(on camera): So tell me what you're doing here.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, right now, I'm working on a subpoena for a trial we have coming up in North Carolina. This is regarding a case where a person got a gun who probably shouldn't have received a gun. And it's my job to go testify to the history of that gun.

COSTELLO (voice-over): Investigators do that by scouring the tracing center's huge data bank...

HAUSER: There could be five dealers on this thing.

COSTELLO: ... with its list of guns previously used in crimes and gun registration records from firearms dealers. If that makes it sound easy, it's not.

(on camera): Can't you just look at the serial number and say, Oh, I know where that gun came from?

HAUSER: No, you can't.

COSTELLO: Not as simple as that?

HAUSER: Not as simple as that. Serial numbers are not necessarily unique.

COSTELLO (voice-over): Or they've been altered or removed. And keep in mind most guns change hands at least once before they're used in a crime.

HAUSER: What is he? He's just a witness in the chain of distribution, nothing more than that. And he may be useful, depending on how close he is to handing that gun over to the suspect.

COSTELLO: But that person is still an important clue for detectives to find out how that gun ended up in the hands of a criminal.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

Despite all of this, the ATF has a pretty impressive track record, tracing the life of a gun accurately in 65 percent of its cases. They wish it could be 100 percent, but as you heard, it's not so easy. And remember, these are just registered guns. There's a whole lot of unregistered guns out there, which are much harder to trace.

ROBERTS: Pretty surprising that they can keep up with the workload that they've got.

COSTELLO: They make it sound so easy. And literally, there are millions of records in that little place in West Virginia. But they do it at lightning speed. It's amazing. It truly is.

CHETRY: Well, they need all the help they can get, certainly, because as we've been talking about, it still is a big problem, the guns obtained illegally and making their way across state lines. Carol, thanks so much.

We're going to be joined, actually, after the break by Mayor Michael Bloomberg. He's been leading the charge, a coalition of about 500 mayors across the nation that want to try to put a stop to it. They say that nearly half of the guns recovered at crimes crossed state lines and came from just 10 states in particular, some loopholes that still haven't been closed. We're going to join -- he's going to join us to talk just after the break. It's 36 minutes after the hour.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHETRY: Welcome back to the most news in the morning, 39 minutes past the hour right now. All this week, we're focusing on gun sales and gun violence in this country. According to the CDC, more than 30,000 people were killed by guns in 2007, 12,000 of those were murders. And illegal guns were to blame in many of those cases. There's a new report by New York mayor Michael Bloomberg's coalition, Mayors Against Illegal Guns, showing that cities are paying a severe price for weak laws in other states.

And Mayor Bloomberg joins us now. Thanks so much for being with us.

MAYOR MICHAEL BLOOMBERG (R), NEW YORK CITY: Thanks for having me.

CHETRY: We talked to you last April. Since then, your group has released a new report. And one of the key findings -- this is interesting -- is that states with weak gun laws are the top sources of guns recovered in out-of-state crimes. What are these states doing differently or not doing enough of that makes them a target here for illegal gun sales?

BLOOMBERG: Well, you shouldn't be surprised people go to buy guns where they can, in states that allow you to sell guns without a lot of background checks, or in some cases with none, this gun show loophole. That's where the buyers go. What do the buyers do with them? They take them to the places where criminals are. They take them to the places where young people want to buy guns. They go from those states that it's easy to sell, with no gun laws, to those states that have tough gun laws, like New York, for example. New York state, 85 percent of the guns recovered in crimes come from out of state.

CHETRY: Right.

BLOOMBERG: You go to a state where it's easy to buy guns, it'll be 80 percent or 90 percent were bought locally. So gun laws, the bottom line is, do have a big impact on this country. One of the problems is that no state can be totally in charge of their own destiny because it's too easy to carry guns.

Last night, I went to Kings County Hospital. A cop, Richard Rodriguez (ph), 29-year-old guy, four years on the job -- they chase some perp, runs into a building, and the guy turns, pulls a gun and shoots at the three cops. Fortunately, only hits this cop two or three -- twice in the leg. And the three cops shoot back, and they shoot the guy in the leg so that he'll probably survive, as well.

But it's an illegal gun. This one happened to be an old gun. I saw the gun. These guns haven't been made in a long time. But you can go and buy them on the streets.

CHETRY: Right. So let me ask you this. Do the states where they have weaker laws -- do they see more crime?

BLOOMBERG: There's no argument about that. They also see more crime. And so the bottom line is, if you want to be safe, if you want your kids to be safe, you've got to get the guns off the streets. Cops face it even more because people with guns would tend to turn and shoot at a cop if they're getting chased. Your danger is probably a random shot. And it happens every day.

In the United States, we have a Virginia Tech every single day. There were 32 kids killed at Virginia Tech, terrible tragedy, enormous coverage on CNN, wall to wall Virginia Tech. It happens every day, and you don't mention it. Why? Because the 32 every day are spread across the country.

CHETRY: You know, the NRA does not agree, not surprising, with the assessment. They make the case on their Web site today that gun ownership is at an all-time high, yet we've seen a decrease in gun violence. They say that crime has fallen 6 percent between 2008 and 2009, despite the surge in gun purchases. And what they say is that what you're doing is punishing law-abiding citizens who own handguns and who do it the right way.

BLOOMBERG: Nobody's trying to take away your 2nd Amendment right to own a gun. But there's federal laws that say you can't sell guns to kids, federal laws that say you can't sell guns to felons. And yet that happens all the time, and the NRA fights the ability for police to get the data they need to keep guns out of the hands of kids and out of the hands of criminals. That's all our organization, Mayors Coalition Against Illegal Guns, is trying to do. And we have 550 mayors we're up to, Republican, Democrat, independent, north, south, east, west, urban, rural, big cities. The bottom line is, the NRA is totally unreasonable. They will not allow any -- or not tolerate any restrictions whatsoever. But for example, states that have laws that say you have to take a background check -- they have this gun show loophole where you can walk in and buy a gun, and you do that with...

CHETRY: Right. And explain that. How is that still able -- I mean, you guys have been fighting against this for a very long time. But how is it that the gun show loophole still is able to exist?

BLOOMBERG: Lack of courage. Plain and simple. The legislators in this country don't have the guts to stand up and do what their constituents, all the polls show, clearly want, get guns out of the hands of criminals and kids. And you do that by doing simple background checks.

Most states -- not all, most states have a law that says if you want to go into a gun store and buy a gun, you have to go into a background check. Most dealers are honest. They follow the law. But if a dealer takes some guns or an individual takes some guns, goes to a gun show, you don't have a background check.

And we do this sting operation. We hired some undercover investigators with cameras to go in, go up to different booths at a gun show and say, You know, I can't pass a background check because of something I've done before, but will you sell me a gun? Oh, sure. Here. Here's some money. Here's the gun. Give me the cash. And that's exactly how people that go out in the streets, shoot our cops and randomly shoot our kids get their guns more than any other ways.

ROBERTS: Well, I know that you feel very passionately about this issue. Thanks for joining us this morning to talk about it. Mayor Michael Bloomberg, a pleasure, as always. Thanks -- John.

ROBERTS: There's another warning that terrorists may be planning attacks in Europe. Saudi officials say France could be al Qaeda's next target. The continent has already boosted security at popular tourist sites. We're live at the top of the hour with a look at stepped-up efforts across the continent.

Coming right up, though, a dry start to the work week. Rob's got this morning's travel forecast right after the break. It's now 45 minutes after the hour.

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ROBERTS: Fifty-three minutes after the hour. Churches across America are in crisis. According to the latest studies, 38 percent of them have seen a decline in donations. On the heels of a painful recession, it seems the faithful have little left to give and that has hundreds of churches facing foreclosure.

As Stephanie Elam reports, keeping those doors open could require a miracle.

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STEPHANIE ELAM, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Mt. Gillia Baptist Church knows a thing or two about going through the storm.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How many of you came in here expecting something great to happen today?

ELAM: A freak tornado devastated the Atlanta church in 2008.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When the storm came, it toppled that steeple over.

ELAM: After moving around for 18 months, the church finally reopened as the Higher Ground Empowerment Center.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was just horrible. But thank God we done came through it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I knew once we got back in the sanctuary, people would come.

ELAM: But the church did lose more members. Burdened with more debt, it faced another upheaval: possible foreclosure.

(on camera): Have you heard of a church heading into foreclosure before?

PASTOR DEXTER JOHNSON, HIGHER GROUND EMPOWERMENT CENTER: No, this year has been very shocking to me. I believe that the banks are in business to make money, and understandably so. But when it comes down to a church, I think they need to look at it and work with them to ensure that that church stays in that community.

ELAM (voice-over): Hundreds of churches have faced foreclosure in the last two years, something one unheard of.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I know many of you have been stretching yourselves right through here because you know what we're up against.

ELAM: With their members facing higher unemployment and home foreclosure rates than their white counterparts, black churches are being hit especially hard in their tithing baskets.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I will not withhold the tithe.

ELAM: So after 107 years, this church is finding it harder and harder to serve the community. The pastor has even taken a pay cut.

JOHNSON: The tithes and offerings, that's how we're able to do the ministry that we do. And when the people don't have, they can't give like they normally give or want to give. PROFESSOR JONATHAN WALTON, HARVARD DIVINITY SCHOOL: For congregations then to have to come to grips with the fact that their sincere investments in the faith and in God are now being seized by banks, that can become a point of spiritual crisis for many.

ELAM: Banks that are surviving the downturn say there's enough blame to go around.

DAN MIKES, EXECUTIVE VP, BANK OF THE WEST: There was a "build it and they will come" mentality that kind of set in, in the industry. And the reality is that a lot of these churches, perhaps in part due to the economic downturn, did not grow into the debt as they anticipated that they would.

ELAM: The bank that holds Higher Empowerment property said in a statement, quote, "We have worked closely with the church for more than two and a half years to reach a resolution that would allow the church to continue to occupy the property," end quote.

Pastor Johnson believes his church will remain a rock for his congregation.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I came here to say lord, I need you, and I need you right now.

ELAM: There for people to lean on when any storm comes their way.

Stephanie Elam, CNN, Atlanta.

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ROBERTS: And to the black churches fought for civil and human rights. Now it's waging a war on debt. "Almighty Debt," a Black in America special coming Thursday, 9:00 p.m. Eastern, only on CNN.

CHETRY: All right. We're going to take a quick break. When we come back we're going to have your top stories, including the latest on some new terror warnings out there and a possible privacy breach on Facebook.

We'll be right back.

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