Return to Transcripts main page
Nancy Grace
Zahra`s Dad Says She May Still Be Alive; Young Woman Missing After Receiving Threats; Witness Saw Missing Zahra Sept. 25
Aired October 18, 2010 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight, live, North Carolina. A 10- year-old little girl snatched from her own bedroom in the dark of night. The little girl, Zahra, completely dependent on two hearing aids, can only walk using a prosthetic leg after losing her left leg to childhood bone cancer. This little girl, facing so much hardship now, vanishing into thin air, her bedroom empty, her prosthetic leg missing, hearing aids left behind. The last person to see Zahra alive, stepmommy. Investigators zero in on a ransom note. K9s hit on Daddy`s industrial wood chipper.
In a stunning twist, stepmommy arrested on bad chucks as Zahra`s dad says his whole marriage has been a lie. Did Mommy confess to that phony million-dollar ransom note? Police say no one has seen the 10-year-old for weeks. And now a day late, a dollar short, friends, relatives come forward to say the stepmom made this little girl`s life hell.
Cops, cadaver dogs hone in on a wood and mulch pile, sifting through debris literally on hands and knees, investigators searching into the wee hours, draining a pond, scouring an area adjacent -- next to -- Daddy`s former job site. Sheriff says Daddy not cooperating. Photos of Zahra emerge with a black eye. Family now claiming they called child services many times, but nothing happened to protect the little girl.
Bombshell tonight. The disturbing 911 calls from stepmommy and Daddy just released. We have the 911 calls. And an incredible sighting, a sighting of little Zahra places Zahra alive three weeks ago at a local furniture store. The timeline narrows, the manager of that store possibly one of the last to see Zahra alive, with us tonight. Police backtracking to a series of apartments and homes where the little girl lived, including once being locked in a tiny attic. We now learn one of the family cars goes missing the same time Zahra disappears. Tonight, where is Zahra?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A frantic search is on to find Zahra Baker.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: New sighting reported of Zahra.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was Saturday afternoon.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No bush that they didn`t look under.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Probably 11:00, 12:00.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: At a furniture store and with her stepmother, Elisa Baker.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Zahra Baker shopping with her stepmom here on September 25th.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Establishing a true timeline.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s a race against the clock for Hickory police.
GRACE: The last person to see Zahra alive.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Would you state your name, please?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I didn`t even know they had a little girl.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Cadaver dogs found blood and human remains.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Positive hits for human remains.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She says that she is not a killer.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You came here specifically to hunt for remains?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They`re looking for her body.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They are searching for a body.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You think your wife might have had some involvement in all of this?
ADAM BAKER, FATHER: I don`t know.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My husband works for a tree maintenance company and our back yard`s on fire.
911 OPERATOR: Your what`s on fire?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The back yard. We`ve got big mulch piles and wood piles -- firewood.
911 OPERATOR: Catawba County 911.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey, how you doing?
911 OPERATOR: I`m good.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I need police.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And tonight, live to Wisconsin, and the suspicious disappearance of a beautiful young girl, 22-year-old Stephanie Lowe (ph). Cops say she is now in extreme danger.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Twenty-two-year-old Stephanie Lowe is missing, and police have reason to believe she could be in danger.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We want to find her as fast as we can.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The last time Stephanie`s family heard from her was early Sunday morning.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She was afraid. Somebody was threatening her. She didn`t want to be alone.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Her father says she indicated someone was threatening her. Then the call just abruptly ended.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: At this point, we are keeping all options open as to where she may be.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Lowe lived with her boyfriend in Wausa (ph). He was arrested Thursday for violating his probation.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police went to Lowe`s apartment. They say they found suspicious evidence that they sent to their crime lab.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There were some things that we found in the apartment that were unusual, that would lead us to believe there, you know, possibly has been some harm done to her.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I do not know what happened to my daughter.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Don`t be afraid. I know a lot`s going on, and you`re probably overwhelmed. Don`t be. Just call.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Bombshell tonight, live, North Carolina. A 10-year-old little girl completely dependent on hearing aids, losing her left leg to childhood bone cancer, snatched from her own bedroom in the dark of night. The disturbing 911 calls from stepmommy and Daddy just released as we go to air.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What do you think happened to Zahra?
BAKER: I don`t know.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We need somebody outside the immediate family.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She was standing in the aisleway.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m talking store clerk.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A possible sighting at that furniture store.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Someone outside of the family who saw Zahra.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It would suggest that Zahra Baker was alive three weeks ago.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Has seen Zahra.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I haven`t seen her for over a year.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Two weeks before her parents reported the 10- year-old missing.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I just touched her on the shoulder and I said, Excuse me, sweetheart.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That timeline is a very important piece leading up to her disappearance.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And she just looked up at me and smiled.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Bags of evidence.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Drained a pond.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Removed a mattress set and then what appeared to be bed rails.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Cadaver dogs.
GRACE: K9s.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Cadaver dogs.
GRACE: Hit on Daddy`s industrial wood chipper.
BAKER: Everybody know more than I do.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My husband works for a tree maintenance company, and our back yard`s on fire.
911 OPERATOR: Your what`s on fire?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The back yard. We`ve got big mulch piles and wood piles because we sell firewood.
911 OPERATOR: Catawba County 911.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey, how you doing?
911 OPERATOR: I`m good.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I need police.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight out to Natisha Lance, our producer there at Hickory, North Carolina, at the furniture store. First of all, Natisha, what have we learned about this sighting?
NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, Nancy, what we`ve learned about this sighting is that it happened on September 25th, which is much sooner than we had thought before. Police had initially thought that no one outside the family had seen Zahra for a month, but now we are learning September 25th is the last time that someone outside of the family saw her.
They came to this furniture store, which is right behind me, Zahra Baker with her stepmother, Elisa Baker. They were shopping around the store. Apparently, Elisa Baker was looking for living room furniture, and Zahra was in -- was right in front of the children`s display. She was watching television. And that`s when a manager in the store saw her.
GRACE: Everybody, we`re taking you live there to Hickory, North Carolina, at the furniture store, In Your Home Furnishings, where we`re going to talk to Pat Adams, who saw Zahra there September 25. How much is this going to help police? I don`t know because this is still several weeks before she`s reported missing. But we now know police don`t have to go back to all of these old apartments and homes where they have been searching. We know she was alive September 25.
But right now, I`m hearing we`re getting that 911 call, both of them, in, in full. Liz, play it all.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My husband works for a tree maintenance company, and our back yard`s on fire.
911 OPERATOR: Your what`s on fire?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The back yard. We`ve got big mulch piles and wood piles because we sell firewood.
911 OPERATOR: OK.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
911 OPERATOR: Catawba County 911.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey, how you doing?
911 OPERATOR: I`m good.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I need police.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
GRACE: Wait a minute. Liz, you played the whole thing? He said, How you doing?
OK, Caryn Stark, psychologist. "How you doing?" Wait a minute. Queue it back up, Liz. I want to hear the whole thing, not about the phony fire they probably started themselves in their yard that night, but I want to hear the one where they report -- you got it ready? Let`s listen.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
911 OPERATOR: Catawba County 911.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey, how you doing?
911 OPERATOR: I`m good.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I need police.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
GRACE: That`s all he says to 911. Then they transfer him to police. "How are you doing," Caryn Stark. He said, "How are you doing"?
CARYN STARK, PSYCHOLOGIST: Yes, it`s very clear. Nancy, there`s no emotion going on here. That`s as cold as you can possibly be, considering that you`re calling the police. It`s like he doesn`t know what else to say. The next thing that you expect him to say is, you know, And how`s your family?
GRACE: Unleash the lawyers. We are taking your calls. John Burris, famed defense attorney out of San Francisco, Randy Kessler, defense attorney, Atlanta.
Put `em up! Burris, so far that night, he`s got a million-dollar ransom note stuck on his car. His yard`s caught on fire due to an arsonist. And he finds out his daughter is gone. "Hey, how you doing?" Burris, uh-uh!
JOHN BURRIS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, I don`t think you can read too much into that itself.
GRACE: Oh, really?
BURRIS: I mean, obviously, there are lot of circumstances...
GRACE: "How you doing"?
BURRIS: ... around -- well, you know, he`s -- that`s just a greeting. I don`t think...
GRACE: Really?
BURRIS: ... that suggests guilt or innocence or...
GRACE: Really?
BURRIS: ... any other kind of information. I don`t think so. No, I don`t.
GRACE: Did you hear -- did you hear Haleigh Cummings`s father? He sounded like a wild animal on the phone when he realizes his daughter`s gone.
BURRIS: But everyone -- but everyone -- but every -- but everyone`s different. I mean, there are people...
GRACE: Yes!
BURRIS: ... who react differently...
GRACE: You can say that!
BURRIS: ... to different situations.
GRACE: Some people are guilty...
BURRIS: That doesn`t mean...
GRACE: ... and some people aren`t!
BURRIS: ... he`s not guilty of anything. It doesn`t mean he`s not guilty...
GRACE: OK, Kessler...
BURRIS: ... of anything, or not. It`s just...
GRACE: Go ahead. Hit me.
BURRIS: ... that I don`t think you can read into...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: I`m ready.
RANDY KESSLER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: They got a problem. You know, if he doesn`t testify...
GRACE: Yes, they got...
KESSLER: -- then they`re...
GRACE: ... a problem!
KESSLER: They got a problem. The defense has a problem if he starts off with, "Hey, how you doing," sounds like the next thing is, Let me tell you the story I made up. They now may have to put him on the witness stand to explain what his state of mind was.
GRACE: Hold on!
KESSLER: And that`s never good for a defense counsel.
GRACE: You`re right. At least you`re honest about it. Did you hear that, Burris? I want to hear it again, Liz. There`s not very much to it. I want to hear it. Roll it back for me.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
911 OPERATOR: Catawba County 911.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey, how you doing?
911 OPERATOR: I`m good.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I need police.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My husband works for a tree maintenance company, and our back yard`s on fire.
911 OPERATOR: Your what`s on fire?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The back yard. We`ve got big mulch piles and wood piles because we sell firewood.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
GRACE: To Mark Klaas, president and founder of Klaas Kids Foundation. We know mommy, stepmommy, has now confessed to the phony ransom know. Now they`re calling -- this is while they know Zahra`s gone, Marc. They`ve got to know Zahra`s gone. I mean, how can you have a fire outside and you don`t check on your children, OK? And that is the way they talk to the dispatcher?
MARC KLAAS, KLAAS KIDS FOUNDATION: Well, there was a lack of urgency in both of those calls.
GRACE: That`s putting it mildly.
KLAAS: Well, to put it mildly, but particularly in the second one. His daughter had been missing for quite some time now, and he seems very lackadaisical about it. Quite frankly, Nancy, this man is becoming more and more diminished in my eyes every time he shows up on the screen, or every time he`s even referenced as far as this case goes. He seems like an invisible man.
GRACE: We are live tonight in North Carolina. Standing by, one of the last people possibly to have seen little Zahra alive. With us from In Your Home Furnishings is Pat Adams, placing Zahra alive September 25th. Look at this girl. Where is Zahra?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Investigators` biggest problem, no Zahra Baker.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Will you state your name, please.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Elisa (INAUDIBLE) Baker.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She was reported missing Saturday afternoon. She may have been missing much longer.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police thought the stepmom`s story didn`t add up from the beginning.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I believe that they may have kept her in the attic.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My husband works for a tree maintenance company, and our back yard`s on fire.
911 OPERATOR: Your what`s on fire?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The back yard. We`ve got big mulch piles and wood piles because we sell firewood.
911 OPERATOR: OK.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Concerned about Zahra spreads.
BAKER: Just keep looking to try and find my baby.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Cadaver dogs searched Zahra`s house.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is the house where 10-year-old Zahra Baker was reported missing.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A dozen investigators who were on the scene. Adam Baker was with them.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What about what they removed from the home just now? Is that anything, Adam?
BAKER: (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Two bags of potential evidence, a mattress, a bed frame, and a box spring.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Was the little girl actually locked in a tiny attic?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We would hear noises up in the attic.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think she was sleeping up there on a piece of sheetrock laid out across the rafters.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: New sighting reported at a furniture store.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It would suggest that Zahra Baker was alive two weeks before her parents reported the 10-year-old missing.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My husband works for a tree maintenance company, and our back yard`s on fire.
911 OPERATOR: Your what`s on fire?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The back yard. We`ve got big mulch piles and wood piles because we sell firewood.
911 OPERATOR: OK.
911 OPERATOR: Catawba County 911.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey, how you doing?
911 OPERATOR: I`m good.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I need police.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: "How you doing?" That`s what Zahra`s father says in a completely conversational tone when he discovers that his little girl is gone. Can you imagine? Now, he says he hadn`t seen her since Thursday.
And Ellie, how long had this been? When he was he calling?
ELLIE JOSTAD, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: This is on Saturday afternoon about 2:00 o`clock.
GRACE: All right. So he says he, you know, leaves early in the morning, gets home late at night, doesn`t go in to look at her. That`s Thursday. Friday, same thing. Saturday, 2:30 PM, they finally go in to check on the little girl? He says he`s not seen his daughter, not laid eyes on her, since Thursday, and that is what he says when he calls 911.
This -- to Jean Casarez -- as reports emerge she was kept in an attic?
JEAN CASAREZ, "IN SESSION": The reports are that the manager of the previous apartment complex believes that`s where the little girl slept. You know, Nancy, you got this 911 call minutes before we went on air. I`ve been matching it with the probable cause affidavit. Police intentionally have only released a small portion of that 911 call.
GRACE: We are showing you the diagram that Jean was referring to, Jean Casarez joining us from "In Session."
Out to Pat Adams, the manager of In Your Home Furnishings, who may unwittingly have become one of the state`s main witnesses, establishing the timeline that they`ve got so far. Pat, thank you for being with us.
PAT ADAMS, FURNITURE STORE MANAGER: You`re welcome.
GRACE: Pat, it was September 25th that you`re certain Zahra and her stepmother came into your store In Your Home there in Hickory. What happened?
ADAMS: They came in on that Saturday morning, September the 25th. And Elisa was -- said she was just -- wanted to look around, so we let her look around. I was going down the aisle, and I saw Zahra standing in the middle of the aisle. And as I walked past her, I put my hand on her shoulder and I said, Excuse me, sweetheart. And she looked at me and smiled, and I went on down the aisle.
I went back to customer service, and the ladies up there were talking about the little girl with the prosthetic leg. And I remember thinking that how sad it was, a child that young having a hearing aid and a prosthetic leg. I had gone back through the store to check on the lady, and she said she was just looking. And later, one of the salespeople said she heard a lady call, Zahra, come on. And the little girl left the store.
GRACE: Ms. Adams...
ADAMS: They left the store.
GRACE: Ms. Adams, how are you certain that it was Zahra?
ADAMS: I recognized her picture on the computer, on all the news media.
GRACE: And do you recall that she had the prosthetic leg?
ADAMS: Yes, ma`am.
GRACE: With us is...
ADAMS: And I saw the hearing...
GRACE: You saw the what, dear?
ADAMS: I saw the hearing aid as I walked past her.
GRACE: Everyone, Pat Adams singlehandedly may have turned this case around. Now police are finally establishing a timeline, Zahra alive September 25.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We`re following the search for 10-year-old Zahra Baker.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Homicide investigation.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Investigators spent hours draining a back yard pond.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Officers conducted a massive search for Zahra, a property where police say her father had access to a wood chipper.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Their search for the body of a 10-year-old girl.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Cadaver dogs found blood and human remains there, as well.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We`ve smelled it since Sunday. It was real bad last night.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Investigators suspect Zahra is dead.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My husband works for a tree maintenance company, and our back yard`s on fire.
911 OPERATOR: Your what`s on fire?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The back yard. We`ve got big mulch piles and wood piles because we sell firewood.
911 OPERATOR: Catawba County 911.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey, how you doing?
911 OPERATOR: I`m good.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I need police.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: The case changing by the minute. Literally, as we go to air, we get these 911 calls, where the parents don`t seem very concerned their daughter is missing. But now, has the case turned around? One witness -- her name is Pat Adams, extremely believable, extremely reliable -- says she sees Zahra, she has no doubt in her mind, as late as September 25.
Back to Ms. Adams, the manager of In Your Home Furnishings there in Hickory, North Carolina. Pat, I know this is redundant, but tell me one more time exactly what you saw. Don`t leave anything out. What was Zahra looking at? What was the stepmother looking at? Did they interact? Do you remember how they were dressed, how she appeared? Was she clean? Did she look well nourished? Anything you can tell me.
ADAMS: OK. They came in, and Elisa went one way, and I noticed Zahra standing in the aisle. And I had to go down that aisle, and as I walked by, I said, Excuse me, sweetheart, because I didn`t want her to turn and go in the room. She was watching "Spongebob" on a cartoon that we have playing in the TV room. And I went on around. And Elisa was in the back of the store looking at living room suites that can be bought and sold off the floor, not have to be ordered. And she said she was just looking. I went back to...
GRACE: Go ahead.
ADAMS: Oh. I went back down the aisle, and I heard the customer service talking about the little girl with the prosthetic leg. All I remember, she had stretchy pants on and a T-shirt. She was clean. She didn`t look like an abused child. And after all the interviews and things, I`ve wondered how a girl could look at me and smile the way she did.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: An extremely long time frame where she went unseen.
JEAN CASAREZ, LEGAL CORRESPONDENT, "IN SESSION": They have said she`s dead.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: We really don`t know when she turned up missing.
CASAREZ: They`re trying to find out where she was murdered.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: In my mind, it wouldn`t tell us what cadaver dogs found inside.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Police searching the home again. They removed a mattress and railings, and other places connected to the Baker family.
NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Police are draining this pond.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The 60-acre site, they are trying to eliminate this as a possible site where the body might be found.
CHIEF TOM ATKINS, HICKORY POLICE: This investigation will turn into a homicide investigation.
SHIRLEY MIMS, BAKERS` FORMER NEIGHBORS, BELIEVE MISSING 10-YEAR-OLD ZAHRA KEPT IN ATTIC: I never saw her but the one time when they moved in. I believe that they may have kept her in the attic.
CASAREZ: Stepmother now behind bars on felony obstruction charges.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Do you think your wife might have had some involvement in all this stuff?
ADAM BAKER, FATHER OF MISSING 10-YEAR-OLD GIRL ZAHRA BAKER: I don`t know.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My husband works for a tree maintenance company and - -
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
NANCY GRACE, HOST: We are just getting those 911 calls in tonight as we go to air. And now I am learning that apparently a dumpster at a nearby restaurant has been searched.
Out to Natisha Lance, standing by on the scene.
Natisha, what restaurant? When was it searched? By dogs, by cadaver dogs? What, who, where, why, when?
LANCE: Well, reportedly, Nancy, this dumpster was searched. It is right up next to the Baker family home property. The back of the restaurant is right up next against it and the dumpster is in between the property and the restaurant.
Now this dumpster was reportedly searched at the same time that the search was executed on the Baker home last Friday. They did have cadaver dogs that were out in that area. They used fresh cadaver dogs that were new to this investigation, that they had not used before, searching around the property as well as inside the Baker home.
Now when police were asked whether or not the dogs hit on anything, they said nothing was hit upon outside of the house, but as far as inside the house, they would not comment on that.
GRACE: OK. So when people asked them, they said, the dogs didn`t hit on anything outside the home, and people go, what about inside? And they won`t answer? Is that what you`re saying?
LANCE: That`s right, Nancy.
GRACE: We are taking your calls. To Rhonda in North Carolina. Hey, Rhonda.
RHONDA, CALLER FROM NORTH CAROLINA: Hey, Nancy, how are you?
GRACE: I`m good dear, what`s your question?
RHONDA: I have a question. Did they, by chance, check Lisa`s people, like her father`s address and the surrounding area of his place?
GRACE: Good question. Out to Ellie Jostad, our chief editorial producer.
Ellie, what do we know?
ELLIE JOSTAD, NANCY GRACE CHIEF EDITORIAL PRODUCER: Well, police have been really tight-lipped about specific areas that they`ve been searching, but they have told us that --
GRACE: OK, Ellie, Ellie. Right now, edict. You say that every investigation, all right? And I`m not doubting you.
JOSTAD: Yes.
GRACE: I think that you`re telling me the truth.
JOSTAD: Right. Right. Yes.
GRACE: But you can just stop saying, "police are being tight-lipped."
JOSTAD: OK.
GRACE: I get it.
JOSTAD: Well, long story short, they won`t tell us.
GRACE: And you don`t have to tell us, "They`re playing it close to the vest." OK. Out. OK, go ahead.
JOSTAD: Yes. Yes. Well, we don`t know if they`ve searched her father`s house. They will not tell us specifically where they`re searching.
GRACE: But is it true, Ellie, that they`re backtracking? They`re starting to go back to old apartments and homes where they used to live?
JOSTAD: Yes. That`s right. Last week we saw them both at a trailer home in a town called Sawmill where the family used to live. Also at that apartment complex in Granite Falls.
GRACE: To Marc Klaas, now that we`ve got Pat Adams, who`s with us tonight, placing her alive September 25th. You know, at the get-go, we didn`t know if she ever even really moved to this location.
Now we know she did. She`s alive September 25. But I guess police thinking is they`re going back to all these locations to see if evidence or perhaps even a body is hidden there.
MARC KLAAS, PRESIDENT AND FOUNDER, KLAASKIDS FOUNDATION: Well, pardon me, now that law enforcement and everybody else knows that this little girl was alive on September 25, and that`s a very credible sighting, they can now consolidate their resources and focus on what happened.
They`ll start eliminating the various possibilities until they hone in on exactly what happened. But this is a huge break. I think the other thing that`s very significant this evening, that really hasn`t been touched on yet, is the fact that there was another vehicle that the family used that seemed to have disappeared around the time that the little girl supposedly disappeared.
That, too, is significant. And that`s something that definitely should not have been brought up by neighbors or friends. That`s something that the father should have said something about immediately.
GRACE: You know, Marc Klaas, you`re absolutely right about the car. I`ve only mentioned it one time.
Natisha Lance, you`re there on the scene in Hickory. What do you know about the car? It disappears the very same time Zahra disappears.
LANCE: Well, Nancy, this car is a 1970 Monte Carlo, and what someone is telling reporters is that this car disappeared along the same time that Zahra disappeared. They say that they moved from one location, that house -- that trailer down in Granite Falls. When they moved to the other location in Hickory, that is when that car disappeared.
And so they`re not able -- they have not been able to locate the car. At this point, police have been notified about the car, but they have not given us any additional information about where the whereabouts are of that car.
GRACE: To Jean Casarez, legal correspondent, "In Session."
Jean, you`ve been on the story from the very beginning. What can you tell me, what do you know about the car? And if daddy`s cooperating, can you tell me, has he taken a polygraph?
CASAREZ: All right. We don`t know of any polygraph at all that he`s taken. As far as the cars, there were two cars found at the home when police responded on October 9th. A Chevy Tahoe and a maroon Toyota Camry.
But it is the Monte Carlo, a 1970s version, that the family friend is saying was in the family and then disappeared about the middle of September.
GRACE: Jean, let me tell you something. If that father had taken a polygraph and passed, we would all know about it. The very first time he had a chance, when a microphone got close to him, he would say, look, I took a polygraph and I passed.
Has he said that, Jean?
CASAREZ: No, what he said when he asked, does your wife have any involvement in this disappearance, he says, he doesn`t know.
GRACE: Well, I`ll tell you this, Jean. A father just sit by and let his daughter get treated the way this child was treated her life, a living hell, you know what, in my mind, if he saw what was going on, he`s just as part of it as she is.
And another thing, what father doesn`t see their child, doesn`t at least open the door and look in all those many days? Thursday, Friday, Saturday. Really, Wednesday. OK, all those days, doesn`t even poke his head in to see her? I mean, the whole story doesn`t fit.
And now, Ellie Jostad, now we`re finally hearing from DFACS, Family and Child Services. What are they saying, Ellie?
JOSTAD: Well, Nancy, they say that they will not comment specifically on any of these allegations. They can`t -- they`re bound by law. They can`t talk about whether or not they`ve investigated this family.
But, Nancy, the attorney for the stepmother claims that DFACS has investigated them. He wouldn`t -- he just says that they couldn`t substantiate any abuse.
GRACE: Ellie, isn`t it true that in North Carolina in the last -- let me see -- couple of years alone, 137, I believe --
JOSTAD: Right.
GRACE: -- children that Family and Children Services who are monitoring died -- 137 children, the most innocent, the most defenseless, died. They`re murdered. They`re dead. While DFACS is "helping"?
JOSTAD: You`re right, Nancy. This is a "Charlotte Observer" investigation, 37 deaths -- 137 deaths in the last five years, and these were re families that DFS had contact with. Twenty-six of those homicides, Nancy.
GRACE: To Dr. Charles Sophie. He`s the medical director out in L.A. of Department of Family Children Services. He`s the author of "Side by Side."
And you know what, Dr. Sophie, I`ve got to hand it to you. You`re being very kind to come back with us, and I don`t mean to take this out on you. You`re out in L.A. this is happening in North Carolina.
But, I mean, the girl is dead. All right? We haven`t found her body, but she`s dead. All right? Dogs are hitting on a wood chipper. The parents are lying in their 911 calls. What does DFACS need to take a child away before the child is dead?
DR. CHARLES SOPHY, MD, MEDICAL DIRECTOR, L.A. CO. DEPT. OF CHILDREN & FAMILY SERVICES: Well, you know, as was said earlier, these are legal things and you have to have certain criteria to be able to take a child out of a home.
GRACE: How about a black eye?
(CROSSTALK)
SOPHY: And that has been cleared -- in hindsight, it seems OK. And you have better vision. But look at the difficulty we`re having now to even locate this child or --
GRACE: Yes, well, that`s DFACS` fault. That`s DFACS`s fault. They were getting all of these phone calls. The child has black eyes. The mother mistreats her, makes her life a living hell.
Family, relatives calling police so many times that police were getting fed up with going to the home over and over and over.
Now the child is dead.
To Tom Shamshak, I mean, how can DFACS even say they did everything by the book?
TOM SHAMSHAK, FMR. POLICE CHIEF, PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR, INSTRUCTOR AT BOSTON UNIV.: Nancy, good evening. They do have some questions to answer. I don`t know if they`re going to be throwing out inexperienced workers or a heavy case load, but something is wrong with this situation.
GRACE: Oh, Tom, you`re so right. The same two tired defenses they always use.
SHAMSHAK: Yes, I agree.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: What happened to 10-year-old Zahra Baker?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is a very emotional time for law enforcement.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Police drained a pond looking for the possibility of finding a body.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Zahra`s stepmom has nod been truthful.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If you know her, nothing adds up.
BAKER: I appreciate everyone doing what they`re doing. I just hope they just keep looking to try and find my baby.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: What do you think happened to Zahra?
BAKER: I don`t know.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Well, do you think your wife might have had some involvement in all of it?
BAKER: I don`t know.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: You have no idea?
BAKER: I`m going to get these guys in here.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: I know you`ve got to go. Just -- what can you tell us about Zahra. Why she`s so special?
BAKER: Always smiled, nothing ever upset her. Wanted to do everything for everyone else before her.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Adam, did you have any involvement in her disappearance?
BAKER: No. Everyone knows more than I do at the moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: A massive search.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: No bush that they didn`t look under.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Going over this area over and over again.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: No piece of wood they didn`t look under.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: A frantic search is on to find Zahra Baker.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I haven`t seen her for over a year.
GRACE: The last person to see Zahra alive --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can you state your name please?
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Elisa Baker.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Elisa Baker.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She had nothing to do with this.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She would make fun of the child for not walking right.
KLAAS: She`s living on one leg.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She says that she is not a killer.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She would slap her.
KLAAS: She`s had cancer all of her life.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She would put her hair.
KLAAS: She`s gone deaf.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Elisa Baker would taunt her, cuss at her.
KLAAS: This woman was somehow home-schooling this little girl.
GRACE: They never registered Zahra for homeschooling.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She loves her daughter.
KLAAS: Just downright evil.
BAKER: I came back from looking at a job and started working the yard and her mother came out and started screaming that Zahra was missing.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: What did she tell you? Where`d she say it happened? What did she know?
BAKER: She didn`t know very much. She came out crying and panicking, just telling me Zahra was gone. And so I went in and searched the house, started a search around the block and called the police.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: That is Zahra Baker`s father on ABC`s "Good Morning America." We are taking your calls.
Out to Rachel in Arkansas. Hi, Rachel.
RACHEL, CALLER FROM ARKANSAS: Hi, Nancy. You`re a great role model for people like me that didn`t grow up with one and your twins are awesome. They`re lucky little angels.
This case is so horrifying. I`m just wondering how the dad could not be involved if the child, if the poor child went through the wood chipper. How did the stepwoman have access to that without him -- I mean, wasn`t it his business?
GRACE: You know, Rachel, we don`t know that that is what happened to her, but you`re absolutely right. All of this can`t be going on in your own home and you know absolutely nothing about it.
But speaking of the father, Rachel, I`m glad you brought that up, Rachel in Arkansas. Because now the father is saying, he thinks Zahra is alive.
Out to Natisha Lance. When did the father say Zahra is alive?
LANCE: Well, Nancy, this was on Friday when the search was executed at the Baker home. Adam Baker was there for that search. While investigators are coming out the front door, Adam Baker was coming out the back door.
Media did have an opportunity to speak with him. He did say that he believes that Zahra is alive and he said that when and if she is found, he would like to return her to Australia, if that is what she would like to do.
GRACE: Out to Dr. Glenn Kolansky, board-certified physician, joining us out of New York tonight.
Thank you, Dr. Kolansky. You know, we know that Zahra had survived bone cancer and lung cancer. What was her life like dealing with this recovery?
DR. GLENN KOLANSKY, M.D., BOARD CERTIFIED PHYSICIAN: I mean, this girl has had a very difficult life. Chances are she`s deaf, she may have undergone chemotherapy and that`s the reason she`s deaf, you know, after losing her leg.
I think this girl`s had a very difficult life. If you -- if the reports indicate that her mother would actually make her walk uphill, you know, with one prosthetic leg and basically -- which was very difficult and painful for her.
I think it`s just very unusual that the father could stand by and just watch this all happening to her and not do anything. And if you -- I think -- I have to comment, he has like no emotion in his mannerisms.
So I think something`s awry with him as well. And these don`t stand to be upstanding citizens. I really feel sorry for this girl and I hope she`s found, although it`s very doubtful.
GRACE: Well, Dr. Kolansky, what do you make of investigators now taking furniture including a mattress and box springs from Zahra`s home? What kind of evidence would you expect that they`re looking for on a box mattress and -- excuse me, mattress and box spring?
KOLANSKY: Well, clearly, they could be looking for any kind of blood specimen, hair, blood, any kind of DNA evidence that could be linked to a body that they may find.
GRACE: Right.
KOLANSKY: They can also use it for the cadaver dogs as a scent. I mean a scent can last anywhere from a few days to a week. So chances are that they actually -- you know, they brought new dogs in and they need, you know, a scent for the dogs to trace.
GRACE: To John Burris, Randy Kessler -- unleash the lawyers.
Randy Kessler, now the father is saying -- he`s now announcing this far into it that he thinks Zahra is alive. What, to distance himself from what`s going on? The possibility -- the strong possibility that she`s dead?
RANDY KESSLER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, he shouldn`t say anything. Why does he think that? Sure, he`s got hope. He`s -- but he`s not saying he hopes. He`s saying he thinks. And anything he thinks has got to be based on knowledge.
You know, this is a circumstantial case right now and it`s on the edge. There`s a lot of good circumstantial evidence to the prosecution but there`s no body yet. He needs to clam up and he needs to lawyer up.
GRACE: John Burris, come on, look, I know you`re going to spout off your usual and you`re going to defend him and the stepmother, but the reality is he`s saying she`s alive, she`s alive, to suggest -- I mean you heard him in the 911 call. Not concerned.
Very calm, his daughter`s missing. To suggest he doesn`t think she`s dead, that he doesn`t know anything about it. That`s what this -- that`s where this is headed.
JOHN BURRIS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, you know, my feeling about it is he is a dad. He wants to be hopeful. There`s no evidence that he knows anything other than what everyone else knows.
GRACE: Put him up. Put him up.
BURRIS: And point of fact is --
GRACE: Put him up.
BURRIS: I disagree that his manner -- I disagree --
GRACE: Other than cadaver hitting on his wood chipper?
BURRIS: Well -- and you know I`ve had cases where dogs have bad noses.
GRACE: All around the family car?
BURRIS: So that`s not evidence to me. It`s not evidence yet. And even if there is, that doesn`t mean he did it.
GRACE: It is evidence.
BURRIS: It doesn`t mean he knows anything about it. It not evidence against him. It may be evidence that something bad has happened there, but that doesn`t mean he did it. And he doesn`t -- he may not have knowledge about it. And he may find out later.
GRACE: OK. OK. OK. That`s enough.
BURRIS: So --
GRACE: That`s enough.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: What happened to 10-year-old Zahra Baker?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Zahra Baker.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Who fought cancer.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Zahra Clara Baker.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Lost her leg.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Zahra. Zahra.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: And her hearing.
ZAHRA BAKER, MISSING 10-YEAR-OLD: I can actually hear more than without my hearing aid.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Police in Hickory, North Carolina believe she is dead.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I do not know what happened to my daughter.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She was afraid.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She was scared. Most definitely scared.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Somebody was threatening her.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The longer it goes on, the worse it`s going to be.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Don`t be afraid. Everyone wants you to come home.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If there`s somebody did something wrong, somebody needs to pay.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Stephanie Low, just 22, is missing. Out to Dan O`Donnell, WTMJ Newsradio 620.
Dan, what happened?
DAN O`DONNELL, REPORTER, WTMJ NEWSRADIO 620: This all started shortly before Saturday, October 9th, Nancy, when Stephanie began receiving threatening text messages from someone she may know, but I spoke with her mother Claudia Blake earlier today. And she wouldn`t say, because of the nature of this investigation.
Then on Saturday night, October 10th, the threats became so terrifying to her that she called her brother Daniel saying I don`t want to be alone tonight. Please come over, come with me.
Daniel said his car was out of gas. So he couldn`t come to her apartment. He said she should take a cab at 12:38 in the morning on Sunday morning, she calls back, reaches Daniel`s girlfriend Shelly, who is also Stephanie`s good friend. She tells her also to take a cab.
But at that point the phone just went dead. Shelly tried to reach her, but kept getting her voicemail. The next morning, Claudia says she got a call. Shelley was frantic. Claudia sent a friend over to check on Stephanie. No answer.
By Sunday afternoon, on October 10th, she, Shelly, went over to a friend`s -- she was able to gain access to the apartment. Found no sign of an overt struggle, but no sign of Stephanie.
GRACE: And she`s gone.
O`DONNELL: And her --
GRACE: With me is Daniel Blake, this is Stephanie`s brother.
Daniel, what more can you tell us? That`s quite a convoluted story. She was getting threats and now she`s gone?
DANIEL BLAKE, BROTHER OF MISSING WOMAN, STEPHANIE LOW: That`s all we know of. We don`t know much. I know we get together every day and we search for her. We don`t know -- we know there was threats.
GRACE: Threats from who? Who was leaving threats?
BLAKE: We don`t know. If we did know, we can`t comment on any names.
GRACE: Everyone, you are seeing a shot of Stephanie Low, just 22. The tip line 877-409-8777. Disappearing from Wausau, Wisconsin.
Let`s stop and remember Army Corporal Stanley Lapinski, 35, Las Vegas, killed Iraq. Awarded the Bronze Star, Purple Heart, a USS grad, loved music, sports, reading history.
Father Stan, a World War II vet, passed away last year. Leaves behind mother Danielle, brothers Rick and Russ, sister Tina.
Stanley Lapinski, American hero.
Thanks to our guests but especially to you for being with us. I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. And tonight, god bless Zahra. Until tomorrow night, good night, friend.
END
