Return to Transcripts main page
American Morning
Open Enrollment for Health Insurance; Walking to School in a "Kill Zone"; Taliban Conducting Secret Talks to End War in Afghanistan; O'Donnell's Stumble over the Constitution; Study Links Hormone Replacement to Breast Cancer
Aired October 20, 2010 - 07:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JOHN ROBERTS, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, and thanks so much for joining us on this Wednesday, the 20th of October. I'm John Roberts.
KIRAN CHETRY, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Kiran Chetry. Glad you're with us this morning. Here's a look at the top stories.
There's a bizarre twist nearly 20 years later in the Clarence Thomas Supreme Court nomination testimony from Anita Hill. Clarence Thomas' wife is asking for an apology from Hill for accusing her husband of sexual harassment in front of the nation. And the timing of the call may not be a mistake.
ROBERTS: A security supervisor at one of the nation's busiest airports, Newark Liberty, is under arrest this morning. He allegedly stole cash from passengers' bags while the passengers were being searched. Oh-oh. Prosecutors say women were most often targeted. More than one worker was involved, as well.
CHETRY: Also, a troubling new study that hits home for millions of women linking hormone replacement therapy to more aggressive and deadlier forms of breast cancer. And that as many doctors questioning whether the treatments are doing a lot more harm than good.
ROBERTS: But first this morning, a real blast from the past causing quite a stir this Wednesday morning. The wife of Supreme Court justice, Clarence Thomas, has reached out to Anita Hill, and she would like an apology. You may remember Hill's testimony almost sank Thomas' Supreme Court nomination. That was back in 1991. Kate Bolduan is following the story for us from Washington this morning. And this to say the least is a little unusual, Kate.
KATE BOLDUAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It sure is, raising quite a few questions, John. As you mentioned, almost 20 years later, the wife of Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas is asking for an apology from Anita Hill, the woman who accused him of sexual harassment during his confirmation hearings in the early '90s.
Virginia Thomas, a conservative activist, left Hill, a law professor, a voicemail at Hill's office recently. Here's the message. She said "Good morning, Anita Hill, it's Ginny Thomas. I just wanted to reach across the air waves and the years and ask you to consider something. I would love you to consider an apology some time and some full explanation of why you did what you did with my husband." Thomas goes on to say, "So give it some thought and certainly pray about this and come to understand why you did what you did."
So Thomas says she was extending an olive branch of sorts after all these years and that no offense was intended in the message. But it seems Anita Hill doesn't see it that way. She turned the message over to campus security, which then turned it over to the FBI, John.
ROBERTS: What's Anita Hill saying of this idea of an apology?
BOLDUAN: She said very clearly in a statement to CNN that, she says, quote "I certainly thought the call was inappropriate and I have no intention," she says, "of apologizing, because I testified truthfully about my experience and I stand by that testimony."
You mentioned it at the top, of course you all remember these allegations and hill's testimony almost derailed Thomas' nomination. And it also sparked a nationwide debate over harassment in the workplace. But why, oh, why, people are asking why is this coming 20 years later?
ROBERTS: So why is this coming 20 years later?
BOLDUAN: It's a good question. And so far Ms. Thomas has not indicated why the timing is what it is. We'll have to see.
ROBERTS: Kate Bolduan for us in Washington, thanks.
CHETRY: Other stories new this morning, a federal judge denies an administration request and reaffirms her ruling that the Military's "don't ask, don't tell" policy is unconstitutional. It comes as the Pentagon does an about face, accepting openly gay recruits for the first time.
ROBERTS: The father of a cub scout says he's been forced out of a leadership role in his son's troop because he's gay. John Lambert says he was told not to wear the uniform while attending functions with his nine-year-old son. Officials say Lambert was never formally registered as a leader and can still volunteer.
KIRAN CHETRY, CNN ANCHOR: The NFL handing out fines to three players for illegal hits during last weekend's game, but stopped short of any suspension. The league fined Pittsburgh Steelers' linebacker James Harrison $75,000, New England patriots' safety Brandon Meriwether was also fined as well as Atlanta Falcons' quarterback Dunta Robinson. Both of them fined $50,000 each.
The league says starting with this week's game, they'll be more vigilant about rejecting, fining, and suspending players for violent hits.
ROBERTS: An airline pilot taking a stand against airport full body scanners. Michael Roberts refused to body scan and pat down at the Memphis airport last week. Roberts is a pilot for express jet airlines based in Houston. He said there should be a better system in place to keep passengers safe, one that doesn't violate a person's privacy or civil rights.
And coming up at 8:10 Eastern, we're going to talk with Michael Roberts about whether his body scan protest could cost him his job.
CHETRY: Meanwhile, a security supervisor at one of the nation's busiest airports, Newark Liberty, is under arrest this morning for allegedly stealing from passengers while they were being searched. Homeland Security Correspondent Jeanne Meserve is live in Washington. Tell us measure about this disturbing case, Jeanne.
JEANNE MESERVE, CNN HOMELAND SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Kiran, this was brazen, and if the charges are true, quite lucrative. Michael Arato was a TSA supervisor at the Newark Liberty check point leading to Air India gates.
According to court documents, he and one of his employees targeted non-English speaking Indian women returning home, stealing cash from their carryon bags as they went through security, sometimes pocketing as much as $400 to $700 during each shift.
The government alleges Arato accepted $3,100 in bribes just between September 13th and October 5th of this year. Sometimes Arato took the money, the affidavit says, sometimes the employee did but gave half the money to Arato so Arato wouldn't turn him in.
According to the affidavit on one occasion the two men went into the office to split their take, about $1,000, and after Arato took his share of the money and stuffed it in his pocket, he turned and displayed his middle finger to the security camera.
CHETRY: How did they find out about this? Did one of the passengers say this was happening? And how much trouble could he be in?
MESERVE: Well, there were numerous complaints from passengers which led them to investigate this. The charges include one count of accepting bribes, one count of conspiring to commit theft, three counts of theft by a government employee. If convicted, he does face significant fines and prison time.
His co-worker, by the way, not charged at this point because he has been cooperating with authorities since September. According to a law enforcement official, Arato was expected to surrender to authorities yesterday morning, but he didn't. He was arrested last evening at Newark's Penn Station. He's scheduled to appear in federal court today.
The TSA says it will work swiftly to terminate any employee engaging in illegal activity and that the unfortunate choice of one individual shouldn't reflect on other screeners who conduct themselves with they say professionalism and integrity. Kiran?
CHETRY: It's true, though. These charges, you know, are proven it's disturbing, flagrant, preying on people who are trusting you for security.
MESERVE: And someone that's supposed to be keeping you safe and secure.
CHETRY: Jeanne Meserve for us this morning, thanks so much.
ROBERTS: Well, if you were a witness yesterday, you heard Rob Marciano talking about the friendly gators in Louisiana. Well, next door in Mississippi, not so friendly. Two massive hungry gators made themselves at home in a Mississippi neighborhood.
Residents near Biloxi say the 10-foot reptiles showed up on the streets yesterday, got stuck in a drainage hole. Two trappers --
CHETRY: They look friendly.
ROBERTS: They look harmless in the position they're in. It took trappers about three hours to capture them. They are not going to be released into a safe environment.
CHETRY: Safe for who? The gator?
ROBERTS: Rob Marciano's backyard.
(LAUGHTER)
CHETRY: Yes, right.
More heavy rain and strong winds expected today across southern parts of California. Several interstates shut down near Palm Springs. Roads covered with debris and sand and as much as 18 inches of mud in some spots. The storm's being blamed on at least one death.
(WEATHER BREAK)
ROBERTS: If you're logging on this morning and noticing a lot of purple people on Facebook this morning, that's because today has been dubbed "spirit day." The Gay and Lesbian Alliance against Defamation is asking everyone to wear purple and turn their Facebook and Twitter profiles to purple to show support for gay and lesbian youth and honor teens who have taken their lives in recent weeks.
For more information, you can visit glad.org/spirit day.
CHETRY: Still to come, it's that time of year we all love. Open enrollment, you know, if you have benefits for your employer, you know what I'm talking about. As you sit there and say what should I choose? What should I do?
ROBERTS: How much is this going to cost me?
CHETRY: Exactly. But we have an expert here who is going to help break it down for you, things to look out for so you make the right choices when it comes to health insurance for your family.
ROBERTS: And the troubling link between hormone replacement therapy and breast cancer. Many doctors now concluding the therapy does a lot more harm than good. What millions of menopausal women need to know now. Stay with us. It's ten minutes after the hour. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHETRY: There's a new study linking hormone replacement therapies to more aggressive and deadlier forms of breast cancer. The study showing women that are on a combined estrogen progesterone regimen are 25 percent more likely to get invasive breast cancer.
ROBERTS: And here's the big part of that study, too. Those cancers are resulting in fatalities twice as often. Earlier on "AMERICAN MORNING" I spoke to Dr. Freya Schnabel. She is the director of breast cancer surgery at the NYU medical center. I asked her if hormone replacement therapy is still viable for women.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. FREYA SCHNABEL, DIRECTOR OF BREAST SURGERY, NYU LANGONE MEDICAL CENTER: This changes the dialogue about hormone replacement therapy because it increases the sense of risk associated with the treatment. Existing evidence had suggested that when women had breast cancer after hormone replacement therapy that the cancers may have been early detected when they were very small, not aggressive cancers, possibility of successful treatment, et cetera.
But this study now shows that those women even though they were having good health care still had a greater chance of dying from their breast cancers. And this now increasing our sense of the risks of HRT.
The real culprit in increasing the risk for breast cancer is women who are taking some form of estrogen with some form of progesterone because they have not had a hysterectomy. The risks for breast cancer are less in women who have had hysterectomies and are only taking estrogen without the progesterone.
ROBERTS: Because the progesterone is protective against uterine cancer, correct?
SCHNABEL: Correct.
ROBERTS: So what's the discussion then? A woman already in menopause and considering hormone replacement therapy, a woman who is about to go into it, what's the conversation to have with their doctor?
SCHNABEL: I think the conversation has to come around back to the idea of hormone-replacing therapy as real drug therapy, with indications, risks, and benefits. There may genuinely be a small population of women who have severe and life-altering menopausal systems who may elect to continue to take hormone therapy or begin it even knowing full well what the risks may be. But what the conversation has changed is that those risks are now much more clarified.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERTS: There's also talk about timing. How long could a woman be on hormone replacement therapy and have a relatively safe window? Dr. Freya Schnabel was saying, you know, maybe two years. Some people have said as much as five, but she takes the lower end of that.
CHETRY: It's a very difficult discussion because for people who are suffering from the -- the side effects --
ROBERTS: Sure.
CHETRY: -- and the way that it feels to be going through menopause say it's not just I'm uncomfortable, so it's really life-altering.
ROBERTS: Yes.
CHETRY: And as they do more and more studies and start to see this link, there's a lot of concern. I mean, are you going to put your health at risk because of those symptoms?
ROBERTS: She also made a special point, though, of talking about pre- menopausal women because it brought up the idea because when women go through IVF, they get all kinds of estrogen and progesterone.
CHETRY: Absolutely.
ROBERTS: She says it's not a concern for women who are pre-menopausal women. It's also for post-menopausal or menopausal women.
CHETRY: And they are going to be studying that more, as well, with the increased use of in vitro fertilization.
All right. Well, we are going to have more about that on our Web site, as well. And also, major sticking point in a Delaware Senate debate. What exactly is in the First Amendment? Why Christine O'Donnell is taking some more heat coming up in Our Political Ticker.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHETRY: Nineteen minutes past the hour. We're "Minding Your Business" this morning. And if you're like many Americans, you get once chance every year to choose your health care benefits if you get them from your employer. And that time is now. It's open enrollment season across the country.
So we're going to try to break down, help make it a little easier for you as you sift through all that paperwork and try to figure out how to make the best choice for you and your family. "Money Magazine" writer, Amanda Gengler, joins me now with more on this.
Thanks for being with us this morning.
AMANDA GENGLER, WRITER, "MONEY MAGAZINE": Great to be here.
CHETRY: Everybody should be aware that there are changes. If you didn't see them last year, you'll probably see them this year. And the reason is why?
GENGLER: Well, these are changes that have been gradually taking place. So they're not all directly related to health care reform. Over the years, companies have been doing things like pushing more of the costs on to you. You might see co-insurance where you have to pay a percentage of the fee, where you have seen co-pays before. That flat fee that you used to pay when you go to the doctor.
We're seeing a lot of companies charge per dependent now instead of just sort of one overall family rate. This is definitely the year that you want to pay attention to how your benefits are going to be structured.
CHETRY: Exactly. Well, one of the first things that you say is don't just default to your current plan. Things are going to be different, so you have to be more informed.
GENGLER: Exactly, for all of the reasons I just said. Your current plan might look completely different next year. So you really want to start sort of from the beginning and compare the co-pays, co- insurance, deductibles, premiums across all of the plans. And that can be hard to do, but more insurers are giving you tools where you can play around. OK, well, let's say if I need the same care last year I did this year, this is how much I will spend in each plan.
CHETRY: And sometimes, you know, you're within your own workplace or company, they'll have seminars. You know, we went to one last year, or we took the advice of one person who went to one. And now we're all like, we should have listened. We should have actually gone to it because you don't know what works for you and what works for you individually. So if they have that, you should really try to take your employers up on that.
GENGLER: You absolutely should go. Particularly because so many employers offer tools that you don't even know about. Wellness is a big trend this year. They might offer classes for you to help lower your cholesterol or your blood pressure. They might ask you to fill out a health risk questionnaire so then --
CHETRY: And you say do this? You say don't not do it because you think it's somehow going to affect your privacy when it comes to your health?
GENGLER: Absolutely. I mean, in many cases the companies will actually pay you to fill them out. And generally speaking, look, they're not going to share. They don't want to share your information with other people. What they want to do is for you to get healthy. So this is actually one place where your interests and your company's interests are sort of aligned. Where they want you to get healthy and you should want to get healthy. So they're providing you a lot of tools to do that.
CHETRY: Right. You also say take them up on the flexible spending. This is money that you can take out pre-tax dollars, put it away and then you can use it to pay for your health care. One of the things that makes people nervous is how do I know how much I'm going to use in a given year. So if I take out $1,000, I don't use it, I just lose it. GENGLER: Exactly. Most companies have extended the date that you have to use all the funds by into the first quarter of next year, so it's not going to be the mad rush on December 31st to go use all of your FSA (ph) money. But the bottom line is only 22 percent of workers who have access to these types of accounts actually use them.
Well, if you deposit $1,000 into the account, you can save $350 a year in taxes. I should mention there's also something called a health savings account that's becoming much more popular this year and they're linked to high-deductible plans, a new type of plans that many people may see as an option this year. And the same thing. If you sign up for a high-deductible plan, absolutely sign up for that health savings account, as well.
CHETRY: And so what is that? You put money you're your paycheck directly into this account?
GENGLER: Exactly. What it is is it comes linked to a plan where you have a bigger deductible up front and then you pay lower premiums. So there's more risk with that plan. So to encourage people to sign up, you can actually save money in a health savings account tax-free, just like you can with an FSA (ph), but the great thing is you don't lose it at the end of the year. The money can carry over from year to year.
CHETRY: All right. And also, if you have a lot of prescription drugs on your -- that you take or your family takes, make sure that you figure out exactly what your plan says about that because that can make a huge difference.
GENGLER: Absolutely.
CHETRY: Amanda Gengler for us, writer for "Money Magazine," thanks for being us this morning.
GENGLER: Thanks, Kiran.
CHETRY: John?
ROBERTS: Well, if there's any question as to whether or not some of our urban streets are like war zones, consider this. There were 150 coalition troops killed in Iraq last year. On the streets of Chicago, more than 370 people died. Our T.J. Holmes takes us the dangerous two-mile walk to school with one teenager in one of the city's toughest and poorest areas.
It's 24 minutes after the hour.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHETRY: Twenty-seven minutes past the hour. Time for an "A.M. Original," something you'll only on AMERICAN MORNING.
All this week we've been taking a look at gun violence in the country. It's plagued Chicago's South Side as well as its schools. ROBERTS: Many students there aren't as worried about homework as they are about making it home alive. Our T.J. Holmes took the walk to school with one of them for our series, "The Life of a Gun."
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You come around. You better have a bullet proof car, a bulletproof vest or something, bulletproof hat, bulletproof everything.
T.J. HOLMES, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): His name is Kendall. He asked that we only use his first name.
(on camera): If I gave you money right now and said go get me a gun, how long would it take for you to come back with one?
KENDALL: I can't answer that question. I couldn't answer that.
HOLMES: You couldn't answer that or you don't want to answer it?
KENDALL: I can't. But that will be quicker than what you think.
HOLMES (voice-over): He's a 16-year-old high school sophomore who says in his world, the illegal gun culture is everywhere.
(on camera): How prevalent are guns in your neighborhood? We're only a block from your house. How easy is it to get a gun?
KENDALL: To get a gun?
HOLMES: Yes.
KENDALL: Like for a baby to get a pacifier. That easy.
HOLMES: That easy.
KENDALL: I mean, you know somebody who knows somebody that knows somebody that got a gun. We go this way.
HOLMES (voice-over): Kendall shared his impressions on his two-mile walk to school one morning through one of Chicago's toughest neighborhoods, Englewood.
(on camera): And you describe Englewood as what?
KENDALL: I mean, a war zone. A kill zone.
HOLMES: It's that bad?
KENDALL: It's that bad.
HOLMES: How often do you hear gunfire?
KENDALL: Out of a week?
HOLMES: Yes. KENDALL: About probably three times. People get killed going to school, man.
HOLMES (voice-over): In fact, 373 people were killed by guns last year in Chicago alone. One of the highest murder rates by guns per capita.
KENDALL: Some you adapt like animals, man. Used to it.
HOLMES: Kendall says he's been offered the chance to buy a gun and refused. He says he's never owned one but had had close brushes with gun violence.
(on camera): You're 16 years old.
KENDALL: Yes.
HOLMES: You told me you've been shot at before? Does that sound normal to you? A 16-year-old that has been shot at before?
KENDALL: I mean, does it sound normal to you an 11-year-old getting shot in the head?
HOLMES: Not at all.
KENDALL: I mean, it's reality now.
HOLMES: Most of the issues with violence and guns, is it a gang issue?
KENDALL: Majority of the time, not really.
HOLMES: Not really?
KENDALL: Just a bunch of kids with nothing to do.
HOLMES: If somebody came and asked you, the mayor came in and ask you how you would solve the problem, how would you answer him?
KENDALL: I mean, for one, I'd get these kids my age some jobs, man.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I know some people have for summer.
HOLMES (voice-over): For now, the mayor's office and Chicago schools hope special mentoring programs in the classroom help keep teens like Kendall on the right track.
KENDALL: It's just the point, man. I don't want this forever, man. I don't want this for the rest of my life. I want something different. I want nice things.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HOLMES: And John, Kiran, we talked so much about the violence in Chicago and oftentimes it is related to gun violence. But to a person in Chicago, whether it's the people who are running the mentoring programs, the people in charge of the schools, or the young people themselves, they say guns are not the problem.
They say if you took every single gun away in Chicago, one mentoring program leader said it this way. The kids would brick each other to death. They would find other ways to lash out, to channel that anger. They would kill each other in other ways. So the problem really is the violence itself and the lack of opportunity for young people.
John, Kiran, it was heart breaking and I swear to you, nearly brought tears to my eyes at the end of that shoot. Kendall stopped us, he said, "thank you guys for coming out. But before you go, you all know of any job opportunities around here for somebody my age?" That kind of summed up the entire shoot and some would say the entire problem. Young people like Kendall just need opportunities.
CHETRY: I mean, there really isn't anything else you can say. I mean, you just see this kid who has so much promise and the situation he's stuck in just sort of leads him with not many options.
HOLMES: That is the case for so many. He has been able unlike so many others to stay out of trouble. He does have a mom at home. And even Kendall has a young child at home, as well. He wants to do the right thing, he wants to stay above the fray. Sometimes he gets sucked into it. But he is like so many others.
And again, I know we talked about gun violence. It's prevalent there, it needs to be addressed. But at the same time, many there have been screaming for years the guns are not the real problem in Chicago.
ROBERTS: All right. T.J. Holmes for us, this morning, with an eye- opening look at the situation there in the windy city. T.J., great piece. Thanks so much.
Crossing the half hour now. It's time for this morning's top stories. Clarence Thomas' wife has a message for Anita Hill. It's never too late to say you're sorry. But Hill says, no way. It's her response to a voice mail from Virginia Thomas asking Hill to consider apologizing to Justice Clarence Thomas. Anita Hill, you'll recall, accused Thomas of sexual harassment during his Supreme Court confirmation hearings 19 years ago.
CHETRY: Taliban leaders reportedly taking part in face-to-face talks to end the war in Afghanistan. The "New York Times" reporting this morning that Taliban commanders are secretly leaving sanctuaries in Pakistan with the help of NATO troops. The meetings were said to involve President Hamid Karzai's inner circle as well as members of the leadership group overseeing the Taliban war effort inside Afghanistan.
ROBERTS: French President Sarkozy ordering police to break blockades at all fuel depots after more violent protests in France. The anger sparked by pension reforms that would raise the retirement age from 60 to 62. Hundreds of flights into and out of Paris have been canceled after airport workers walked off the job. A final vote in the reforms is expected either tomorrow or Friday.
CHETRY: 33 minutes past the hour to the most politics in the morning, crossing the political ticker. A back and forth about who knows the Constitution better, especially the First Amendment.
ROBERTS: Our senior political editor Mark Preston live at the cnnpolitics.com desk for us this morning. So what about the separation of church and state, Mark?
MARK PRESTON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL EDITOR: Hey, John, good morning. Good morning, Kiran. Well, I'll tell you what. You know Christine O'Donnell has said a lot of embarrassing things, has had to explain herself a lot. And yesterday during a debate, she stumbled over the Constitution. Specifically it was a discussion about creationism in public schools and how to teach it and whether to teach it. She didn't know that the First Amendment gave - allowed for the separation of church and state. In fact, let's listen to what she said during this debate, John and Kiran.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHRISTINE O'DONNELL, DELAWARE SENATE CANDIDATE: - the separation of church and state is not in the first amendment. Let me just clarify. You're telling me that the separation of church and state is found in the first amendment.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Government shall make no establishment of religion.
O'DONNELL: That's in the first amendment.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PRESTON: There you go. Christine O'Donnell asking not, you know, more than once, it's whether that language is actually in the Constitution, which is very important because she is a Tea Party candidate and this is a big issue for the Tea Party. In addition, she stumbled over the 14th amendment and the 16th amendment.
Of course, the 14th amendment grants citizenship to folks who are born here in the United States. Some tea party activists want to repeal that. And of course, the 16th amendment establishes the federal income tax. So Christine O'Donnell is trailing badly in the polls right now. Another stumble. Not good as we head into election day.
Out in Nevada, a very close contest between Sharron Angle, the Tea Party candidate out there and Senate majority leader Harry Reid. In fact, the polls show it's tied right now, and Univision is actually pulling an ad from its rotation. This ad is being ran by a Republican-backed group. The Republican-backed group is asking for Hispanic voters to actually not show up at the polls.
And why is this important? It's important because Hispanic voters are needed, Harry Reid needs them to win re-election. Univision initially had run the ad, but they decided to pull it back. They said that it is not in their civic duty to be trying to tell voters not to show up at the polls.
But in addition to that, let me just tell you, a disturbing or at least a mind boggling number is that last week alone in Nevada, this shows you how important this race is, more than 50 hours of television time was devoted just to television commercials. So again, a very expensive and a very divisive race out in Nevada. John, Kiran?
ROBERTS: Certainly local television managers love it, though.
CHETRY: (INAUDIBLE) blasting the air waves with this, there's so many undecided in that state. Really quickly though, Mark, back to the O'Donnell debate. Her campaign weighed in and they said that, according to Matt Moran, that she simply made the point that the phrase appears nowhere in the Constitution and then she went on to criticize Chris Coons for not knowing the five freedoms contained in the first amendment, odd because during the debate when she was asked about the 14th amendment, she said luckily senators don't have to memorize the Constitution. So some are asking, which one is it today?
PRESTON: Yes, well, you know what, what was the spokesman going to say? It was such a stumble. She did it more than once and the fact is she stumbled over two more very important amendments to her candidacy. So, again, I think she tried to get out gracefully, but it is what it is.
ROBERTS: Yes, there's something we're going to talk with Jeff Toobin about coming up. Because the point has been made it doesn't say separation of church and state in the first amendment. Some people have suggested that there is no defined separation. Though Thomas Jefferson did articulate it in a letter that he wrote back in the 19th century.
So we'll talk more about this with Jeff Toobin. Find out was she just talking about language or does she really not know what she's talking about?
CHETRY: That is why I keep my handy Constitution on my iPod, OK, because you never know what comes up.
ROBERTS: You don't keep a copy of the little book in your pocket?
CHETRY: This is so much easier (INAUDIBLE).
ROBERTS: Openly gay men and women free to enlist in the military now that the courts have overturned don't ask, don't tell. But some advocates are warning gay recruits to keep it low-profile for now. CNN's senior legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin up next to sort that out for us and as well, to talk about Christine O'Donnell.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ROBERTS: 40 minutes after the hour now. Milestone this morning for gay men and women in the military. The Defense Department now allowing openly gay recruits to enlist. And while the courts may have overturned the 17-year-old policy, the White House is expected to appeal even though the president wants don't ask, don't tell to be tossed out.
People are wondering about that contradiction, as well. Here to make sense of it all, Jeffrey Toobin. So Jeff, for the moment, openly gay recruits can go into their local recruiting station and say I'm openly gay, I want to join the military and the recruiters have to take them in. But what happens to those folks if this law gets overturned on appeal?
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Well, they probably don't get to stay in the military. And the appeal is ongoing now. So when you say today, it's OK for gay and lesbians to enter the military, it may not be true tomorrow. That's how quickly this story is moving.
ROBERTS: So if a person comes in now and they're taken into the military, it's being appealed to the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals. What's the likelihood that they'll uphold or overturn?
TOOBIN: It's really hard to know because there's so many moving parts here. What I expect the courts will do is wait a little bit. Because right after the midterm elections, Congress is expected to take up don't ask, don't tell. And that's how the Obama administration wants to resolve this.
They want when the military budget is passed as it has to be passed in the next few weeks, they want the Congress to say don't ask, don't tell is over. That would remove the whole issue from the courts. That would be achieving this result through the Democratic process. That's what the Obama administration wants. But if they lose a lot of seats and conservatives gain them, they may not - that may not happen. So it may wind up in the courts, as well.
ROBERTS: All right. Let's go to Christine O'Donnell. We were talking about this with Mark Preston just a moment ago. In that debate with Chris Coons, she said yesterday, where is the separation of church and state in the first amendment. She was roundly laughed at and many people are saying this is a huge stumble on her part. Is it really?
TOOBIN: Well, certainly the larger point O'Donnell was making is one that is a perfectly legitimate conservative point, which is that the courts have imposed too many barriers to religious expression in public life. You know, conservatives think there should be prayer in schools, there should be prayers at football games. These sorts of controversies are perfectly legitimate things to argue about.
The problem was, she didn't seem to know that the basis of that controversy was the words of the first amendment. Whether that was just an awkward stumble or she really didn't know it is a little hard to tell.
ROBERTS: Well, the word separation of church and state are not in the first amendment -
TOOBIN: Certainly not.
ROBERTS: But widely interpreted to be that way. I think Thomas Jefferson articulated it.
TOOBIN: He was the first person to use the phrase wall of separation between church and state. But it is true that the Constitution doesn't use the word separate or separation. Although the courts have many times said that there should be separation between church and state.
ROBERTS: And what about the Anita Hill thing with Virginia Thomas? Calling her up, leaving a message on her telephone, asking her to apologize to Clarence Thomas for what happened 19 years ago. What's your read on that?
TOOBIN: This is why I love being in the news business, could there be a more surprising news story of the day? My version is that Virginia Thomas, a well-known political activist is just an outspoken person and she thinks Anita Hill lied and wants to settle this issue even 19 years later. I think it takes to use a legal term, a lot of chutzpah for her to ask. Because if you look at most independent investigations, whether it's the book "Strange Justice" by Jane Mayer and Jill Abramson, the consensus seems to be that Hill was telling the truth, not Thomas. But, you know, Ginny Thomas is out there advocating for her husband.
ROBERTS: It's fascinating. Chutzpah, one of my favorite legal terms -
(INAUDIBLE)
TOOBIN: Not in the constitution, but it's in the interpretation.
ROBERTS: Along with (INAUDIBLE) what our producers getting, urging me to wrap up. Jeff, great to see you this morning. Thanks. Kiran.
CHETRY: Thanks, guys.
Well, straight ahead, taking on subprime lenders. How jilted homeowners are trying to fight back. We're going to hear one family's story.
Also, the Tennessee area as well as Virginia getting some rain this morning. Rob will have the forecast coming up after the break.
44 minutes past the hour.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(WEATHER REPORT)
CHETRY: Forty-seven minutes past the hour. We get a check of this morning's weather headlines. Rob Marciano's in New Orleans for us this morning.
(WEATHER REPORT)
ROBERTS: Families fighting back against predatory lending. How they're helping tackle subprime mortgages. One family's story coming up next. Ten minutes now to the top of the hour.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) CHETRY: Fifty-three minutes past the hour right now. Welcome back to the Most News in the Morning. We've been talking a lot about subprime lenders, jilted homeowners. Well now they're getting to fight back with some high-powered help.
Stephanie Elam shows us one family's story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
STEPHANIE ELAM, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Linda Rhee (ph) and William Wilson believe they have limited time left in the home they've owned for five years.
WILL WILSON, HOMEOWNER: If I keep working, I probably can hold on a while. But I don't know how long my job is going to last now, you know.
ELAM: In 2006, the Wilsons took out a second mortgage to add bedrooms for their foster children. But those bedrooms came with a hefty price tag. A subprime loan with $12,000 in closing costs, $1,200 in monthly payments, and required lump sum payment of $100,000 in the final month to pay off the balance of the loan. When all is said and done, there will be no equity in the property.
LISA MADIGAN, ILLINOIS ATTORNEY GENERAL: We have communities who for years didn't have access to mortgages, didn't have access to credit, and suddenly they're being targeted.
ELAM: Illinois Attorney General Lisa Madigan is a leader in the fight against both predatory and discriminatory lending practices.
Earlier this year, she sued Countrywide, now under Bank of America, alleging they used discriminatory lending practices in violation of federal lending and civil rights laws. Bank of America denies that and vows to vigorously defend against the allegations.
Last year Madigan sued Wells Fargo for similar practices; That lawsuit is still pending and Wells Fargo released this statement to CNN: "With the overarching goal of doing what is right for our customers, Wells Fargo has a longstanding history of being a responsible leading lender to diverse populations."
Richard Thomas was a widower when he first moved into this middle class Chicago neighborhood. Also claiming to be a victim of subprime lending, he's now part of a class action lawsuit against Ameriquest.
RICHARD THOMAS, HOMEOWNER: I just want a comfortable, you know, a nice, comfortable place to live. And I don't mind paying for it but just don't rip me off.
ELAM: The Center for Responsible Lending estimates 11 percent of black homeowners have already lost their home to foreclosure or are now in imminent risk. And it gets worse. Even living near a foreclosed property in black and Latino communities can drop the value of a home.
The Wilsons believe they will ultimately lose their home to foreclosure.
WILSON: All I can say is, is I'll go as far as I can go. Once I do that, then --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's in the lord's hand.
ELAM: Stephanie Elam, CNN, Chicago.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CHETRY: Well tomorrow night, CNN's Soledad O'Brien is going to examine how some are fighting the financial crisis from the pulpit. "Almighty Debt," a Black in America special airs tomorrow 9:00 p.m., right here on CNN.
ROBERTS: We got four minutes to the top of the hour now and the top stories coming your way after a quick break. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
