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Nancy Grace
Zahra Searchers Focus on Landfill Mattresses
Aired October 21, 2010 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight, live, North Carolina. A 10-year-old little girl snatched from her own bedroom in the dark of night. The little girl, Zahra, completely dependent on two hearing aids, can only walk using a prosthetic leg after losing her left leg to childhood bone cancer. The girl vanishes into thin air, her bedroom empty, prosthetic leg missing, hearing aids left behind. Last person to see her alive, stepmommy. And did stepmommy confess to writing phony million-dollar ransom note? We obtain the entire 911 call from stepmommy and Daddy the night Zahra goes missing. You judge them for yourself.
At this hour, investigators scouring a local landfill for a specific piece of evidence. Is it Zahra`s prosthetic leg? Investigators subpoena the make, model and serial number of that prosthetic leg. Stepmommy in court. Her demand for lower bond backfires. The judge raises it.
Bombshell tonight. Search teams sifting through tons of debris zero in on two mattresses, searching them over and over before seizing them as evidence. In the last hours, dogs called in to yet another location cops will not reveal. Tonight, where is 10-year-old Zahra?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A new search is under way.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re running a homicide investigation.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: North Carolina landfill.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re looking for a piece of evidence.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Bed mattress.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Key piece of evidence.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mattress set.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: For one specific piece of evidence.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A mattress.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Searching for a piece of evidence.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: About 20 miles away from the Baker home.
911 OPERATOR: How long has she been missing?
GRACE: Police say no one has seen the 10-year-old.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Has seen Zahra.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Since late September.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Within the last month.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We checked in there last night about 2:30.
GRACE: Vanishing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And she was there.
GRACE: Into thin air.
ADAM BAKER, FATHER: I appreciate everyone -- everyone doing what they`re doing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He seems concerned.
ADAM: I just hope they just keep looking.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t know how sincere his concern is.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There`s no desperation in his voice.
BAKER: My name is Adam Baker.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There`s no urgency.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It appears they may have taken my daughter.
GRACE: Did you hear the father laugh?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She`s hitting that broody stage.
GRACE: Did you hear the father laugh?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Brooding stage.
GRACE: You judge them for yourself!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. Thank you, ma`am.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And tonight, Live, Colorado. A gorgeous psychic goes missing without a trace. Tonight, where is Kathy Adams?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Fifty-seven-year-old Kathy Adams has vanished.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A missing psychic.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And police believe foul play is involved.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Detectives.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Lab technicians.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are working to solve the case.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Law enforcement responds to the home of psychic Kathy Adams and her spouse, John Marks (ph), Jr., for a welfare check.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And he has a criminal background.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When cops arrive, they find that no one is home, but do find suspicious circumstances.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They say she planned to leave her husband. She`d even booked a plane ticket to Atlanta, but she never got on the plane.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Leading them to suspect foul play.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Her husband, John Marks, has also vanished.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: One day later, police find the couple`s car at a motel 30 miles from the couple`s home. Both are missing tonight.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Also tonight, LAPD racing to the Hollywood home of a "Playboy" Playmate of the Year after reports her husband shot at close range in cold blood.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A former "Playboy" Playmate has been arrested on attempted murder charges. Former Playmate of the Year Angela Dorian (ph) was arrested in Hollywood after she allegedly shot her husband inside their home. According to reports, police believe Dorian and her husband were having an argument that turned physical, and that`s when Dorian allegedly grabbed a handgun and shot her husband at least once in the upper body. Reports emerge that when cops first arrived on scene, Dorian allegedly told them that her husband was shot by a drug dealer. The now 66-year-old Dorian appeared in court, where she pled not guilty. She remains behind bars on $1.5 million bond and faces up to life in prison if convicted.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening, I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Bombshell tonight. A 10-year-old little girl, completely dependent on hearing aids, losing her left leg to childhood bone cancer, snatched from her own bedroom in the dark of night. Search teams sifting through tons of debris zero in on two mattresses, in the last hours, searching the mattresses over and over before seizing them as evidence.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s a race against the clock for Hickory police.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Cadaver dogs.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A massive search.
GRACE: K9s.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Searching through tons of trash.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A mattress.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A prosthetic leg.
GRACE: A day late, a dollar short.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re still keeping every option open.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Elisa Baker.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She had nothing to do with this.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re not focusing on one person.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Adam, can we talk to you?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Anything`s a possibility.
911 OPERATOR: 911. Where`s your emergency?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did she ever do anything, Adam?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My daughter`s missing.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: From her own bedroom.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t know.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In the middle of the night.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He cannot answer these questions.
BAKER: Appears everybody knows more than I do at the moment.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Because the answers could be devastating.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There was a bruise under her eye.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: History of cruelty.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They may have kept her in the attic.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Every move these people make...
BAKER: I don`t know.
I don`t know.
I don`t know.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Incriminates them more.
911 OPERATOR: 911. What`s the address of your emergency?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, ma`am. My husband works for a tree maintenance company, and my back yard`s on fire.
911 OPERATOR: Your what`s on fire?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Back yard. We`ve got big mulch piles and wood piles...
(CROSSTALK)
911 OPERATOR: OK. What`s your address, ma`am?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: 21 21 Avenue Northwest, Hickory.
911 OPERATOR: 21 21st Avenue Northwest?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
911 OPERATOR: OK. Is it (INAUDIBLE) behind?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are taking your calls. Straight out to John Miller. He`s there at the Baker home, editor of "The Hickory Daily Record." John, I understand that out of tons of debris, in the last hours cops have zeroed in on two mattresses, mattresses that they hauled out, looked at over and over and over, and went away with the covers.
JOHN MILLER, "HICKORY DAILY RECORD": That`s exactly what happened, Nancy. They found the mattresses right after -- one after another this afternoon while they were at the landfill site. They examined them for a few minutes, turned them over and over. They cut off the covers and then took those covers under tents in which they were working.
At the site, they were just digging and digging, and the investigators were pretty much just standing by watching until those mattresses came out. And then they surged towards those and examined those very closely. Those were the only two things really that came out that we saw them examine in that fashion.
GRACE: What about it, Natisha?
NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, Nancy, John Miller is absolutely right. These covers were taken under a tent, where police told me today that they have a lab pretty much set up out there where they are examining these materials and doing testing on them under those tents.
Now, just last Friday, Nancy, at the home, the Baker home behind me, there were cadaver dogs who were out here who went inside the home. What we did see was a mattress that was taken out of the home, as well as a bedframe as well as a boxspring. Now, police would not comment on whether or not the cadaver dogs made a hit inside the Baker home. But as far as outside the home, they said that there was no hit.
Now, cadaver dogs are not out at the landfill doing this search out there. There are 20 searchers who are out there working during the hours - - around the clock, trying to find this particular piece of evidence that could help them solve this case for Zahra Baker.
GRACE: Police continue to tell us they are searching for a specific piece of evidence. Is that piece of evidence the 10-year-old little girl`s prosthetic leg? As far as dump or landfill searches go, two of them that we covered -- they are extremely difficult searches. They very often go through the night. You have to grid it off and go down like an archaeological dig, day by day by day by day, to determine what day specifically you want to search the trash for that day from all over the surrounding area. Two that come to mind, the search for Lori Hacking and the search for evidence in the Natalee Holloway case.
First the Lori Hacking case. With us, Roger Winkler, retired captain, Salt Lake City Police department. He headed up that landfill search in the Lori Hacking case.
Roger thank you for being with us. What are cops up against in this landfill search?
ROGER WINKLER, RET. CAPT., SALT LAKE CITY POLICE (via telephone): Well, it sounds like to be pretty much like any landfill search, where you get all the debris mixed together, although in a general area. Being mixed together will change, actually, the visual cues that you`ll get while looking for that debris. So you really have to go get all items almost individually picked out of the debris field, make a thorough visual inspection of them, and then have a way to separate them from where you`ve already dug, which turned out to be quite time-consuming.
GRACE: And in the Lori Hacking case, there were tons and tons of trash that you guys waded through. In the end, as I recall, you came up with hair and other bodily tissue to identify Lori Hacking?
WINKLER: Yes, ma`am. We actually recovered almost the entire body. But that body, because of the time that it had been left there, under the conditions that it was in, was almost unrecognizable. We actually had to get a scientific evaluation of the -- what we had found to make sure that it was, indeed, the person we was looking for.
GRACE: You are seeing video of a landfill search that is going on. We know now police have taken away parts of two mattresses they found.
We`re taking your calls live. Out to Anna in Indiana. Hi, Anna.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. My question is, have the police ever revealed how the supposed kidnapper got in and out of that house with that child? And he said last night the dog barked because of the fire. Why didn`t the dog bark when there was a stranger in the house?
GRACE: To Jean Casarez, legal correspondent, "In Session." Weigh in, Jean.
JEAN CASAREZ, "IN SESSION": ... all if there was forced entry into the house, nothing about that at all. And as far as the fire that was behind the home, that really started everything with law enforcement and firefighters going out there, we do know they took samples of that burn area for testing. No results.
GRACE: You are seeing an aerial video of the search that has been going on for hours. We now know -- there you can see it, cops digging up - - a special team digging up two mattresses, looking at them over and over and over on both sides before taking them away.
To Dr. Robert Kaufmann, Atlanta, doctor of internal medicine. If her body has been in this minefield for this long, what would you expect to find under the crush of tons of debris?
DR. ROBERT KAUFMANN, INTERNAL MEDICINE: Just what happened in that other case you discussed. The body would be decomposed. There`s animals, rats, raccoons all crawling through there. There`s acid. The body would be very decomposed, and it would take multiple tests to figure out exactly who it is.
GRACE: You are seeing video, aerial video of the ongoing search for any clue in the case of 10-year-old Zahra Baker. While cops will not reveal to us what it is exactly they`re looking for, many criminologists agree they are looking for Zahra`s prosthetic leg.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A mattress is pulled from one of the piles.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Inconsistencies developed over the course of this investigation.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They resumed the search.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Authorities are hoping to uncover new clues in the whereabouts of missing 10-year-old girl Zahra Baker.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) concerned about their own daughter.
911 OPERATOR: Catawba County 911.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey, how you doing?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My daughter`s missing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He`s too calm for that call.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The mattress is pulled from one of the piles and moved with a track (ph) hoe (ph).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey, how you doing?
911 OPERATOR: I`m good.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I need police.
GRACE: How you doing? That`s what Zahra`s father says...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hi, how you doing?
GRACE: ... when he discovers his little girl is gone.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Investigators back at a North Carolina landfill.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Remove a mattress set.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We were led to the landfill.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What happened to her?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Investigators interviewed several different people involved in this case.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Looking for a piece of evidence.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Searching for a piece of evidence in a landfill.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A piece of evidence.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That could be the prosthetic leg in the landfill?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re looking for a piece of evidence.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She has a prosthetic leg which, apparently, they`ve taken with her.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Looking for a, quote, unquote, "piece of evidence" in the case of little Zahra Baker.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They`ll dig down layer by layer.
911 OPERATOR: She has one -- one...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: One leg, yes, ma`am.
911 OPERATOR: ... that`s partially amputated?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are taking your calls. Out to Dessie in Virginia. Hi, Dessie.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi. How are you?
GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. My question is, is it possible that they`ve dug enough holes to put Zahra`s body in the holes in their back yard, put a cover and then dump gasoline? Remember the truck and the gasoline? And then put fire. Would the dog find out the scent of the child...
GRACE: The dog would absolutely find it. In fact, Dessie, dogs can find cadavers under water. And I learned this from prosecuting arson cases. Accelerant dogs or fire dogs can actually smell accelerant under water. For instance, when a car is torched and then sunk into a lake or a river or off a pier, dogs can smell the accelerant through the water. So yes, they would be able to smell that.
And also, Dr. Robert Kaufmann, very quickly -- Dr. Kaufmann joining us out of Atlanta -- to burn a body is quite difficult. As I recall, in a case we covered about three years ago, some perv killed a young lady and put her body through an incinerator, and her bones still were not totally burned. They could still be identified. Is that true, Dr. Kaufmann?
KAUFMANN: Yes. Now, just think about what it takes to cremate a body. The heat is, like, 500 degrees to cremate a body. So just a normal fire or even an incinerator is not enough to totally decompose a body so it`s unidentifiable.
GRACE: And in a word, Jean Casarez, has the husband, Zahra`s father, visited the stepmother one time since the arrest?
CASAREZ: No, he has not. Not once. Nancy, I`ve got to change subject matter. I`m watching this video of the mattress that was taken out of the home last Friday. It`s wrapped in plastic. We see that. We assume -- at least I did -- that investigators wrapped it before they brought it out. But what if, Nancy, that was a brand-new mattress that was in the home, that didn`t have the plastic off of it yet?
GRACE: To the attorneys. Unleash the lawyers. Renee Rockwell and Peter Odom, both joining us out of Atlanta. Renee Rockwell, that`s a fine "how do you do" that the husband, Zahra`s father, has not visited the stepmommy one time since she`s been behind bars on bad checks. That`s a vote of confidence.
RENEE ROCKWELL, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, Nancy, what does that tell you? Is he being smart...
GRACE: It tells me he thinks she`s guilty?
ROCKWELL: Is he being smart because he doesn`t want to communicate with her because it`s all being taped?
GRACE: What`s smart about that?
ROCKWELL: Or is he thinking -- well, what`s smart about that -- what about all the people that talk and make all these phone calls? And you well know that people sometimes are convicted on the jailhouse tapes alone.
GRACE: Look, Renee, uh-uh. Uh-uh! Odom, there`s a big, big hole in that theory. If he thought she was innocent, he would at least go to comfort her and support her. They don`t have to talk about the case. He hasn`t set one foot near that jail. She`s incarcerated for bad checks as of now.
PETER ODOM, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I think it`s the opposite. I think he`s trying to distance himself from her because he knows that she`s the guilty one. I mean, look, the suspicion`s falling much more heavily on her because of the ransom note.
GRACE: And as far as I`m concerned, if the stepmommy did do it and the father sat by and let it happen, they can all get a one-way ticket, first class even, to hell!
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Investigators` biggest problem, no Zahra Baker.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The search in a landfill.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She was reported missing Saturday afternoon.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) a little while ago, and it appears that they took my daughter instead of my boss`s daughter.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The search for 10-year-old Zahra Baker.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Homicide investigation.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police look closely at the mattress for about 15 minutes.
GRACE: We haven`t found her body.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ten-year-old Zahra Baker.
GRACE: But she`s dead.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Presumed murdered.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Homicide investigation.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There`s no body yet.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She was last seen sleeping in her bedroom.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The first 911 call made by Zahra`s stepmother.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Our back yard`s on fire!
911 OPERATOR: Your what`s on fire?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Our back yard.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Her dad reported her missing 12 hours later.
911 OPERATOR: No one has seen your daughter since 2:30 this morning?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No. My daughter`s, I think, coming to puberty, so she`s hitting that broody stage.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: The father actually laughs on the 911 call, referring to 10- year-old Zahra as going through puberty. He shares that with the 911 dispatcher and calls her "broody."
Back to John Miller, editor of "The Hickory Daily Record." What can you tell me about former neighbors that called the cops out to manholes in their neighborhood? They say they spot the stepmother and father there in their old neighborhood late at night, and then a foul odor emanates from a manhole.
MILLER: Yes, we were told the very same thing. What we were also told, though, that when the police examined the manhole cover, when they pulled the top off it and examined it by looking in, they found nothing. The police have been systematically going to every former residence that the Bakers have lived in and they`ve visited them numerous times.
GRACE: What about it, Natisha? What more can you tell me?
LANCE: Well, Nancy, this is the same neighborhood where the Bakers lived, where Zahra was seen by neighbors being abused by the hands of Elisa Baker. As John said, police did come out and examine this manhole, but the neighbors say that police did not thoroughly look inside of it, so they want police to come back again and take a closer look at these manholes in the area.
GRACE: There`s a shot of one of the manholes the neighbors were trying to alert police to.
Back to the lines. Terri in Tennessee. Hi, Terri.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. You`re my hero!
GRACE: You know what? I do not deserve that. But I want to thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, you do!
GRACE: I`m going to burn a DVD of this. I`m going to play it back to the twins when they turn into teenagers and hate Mommy.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I have a question. Has anybody ever -- did the truck actually catch on fire? They said that the gasoline was poured in the truck. But they also said that that`s where the kidnapper`s note was. And how many 10-year-olds do you know that would not be out there when the fire department comes to their house at 2:30 in the morning?
GRACE: Absolutely zero. And this is the kicker. They say that -- they call 911 -- that they`ve gotten a ransom note for their daughter, but they don`t go in and check on their daughter? What do we know Jean Casarez?
CASAREZ: ... deaf. She may not have heard the fire engines coming to the home. But second of all, the car did not catch on fire. Police took custody of it. They took swabs of that car for forensic testing.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What happened to 10-year-old Zahra Baker?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Zahra Baker.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Who fought cancer.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Zahra Clare Baker.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Lost her leg.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Zahra.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Zahra.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Zahra.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And her hearing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police in Hickory, North Carolina, believe she is dead.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The 10-year-old has not been seen in public since late September.
CHIEF TOM ATKINS, HICKORY POLICE: We have not found her body.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Dig for nearly two hours.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What are police expecting to find if not Zahra`s remains?
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: That digging came to a halt when a mattress is pulled from one of the piles.
ATKINS: We are not looking for her body at this time in the landfill, no.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: How old is your daughter?
ADAM BAKER, FATHER OF MISSING 10-YEAR-OLD GIRL ZAHRA BAKER: She`s 10. And she`s got a prosthetic leg.
ATKINS: There`s a note.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Ransom note.
A. BAKER: They left a ransom note on the company vehicle.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: It said, Mr. Coffey, you like being in control, now who`s in control?
A. BAKER: They had his daughter and his son was next, and his daughter`s fine.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: We have your daughter.
A. BAKER: It appears they might have taken my daughter instead of his daughter.
ATKINS: Elisa Baker admitted to writing the ransom note.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I knew this day was going to come.
ATKINS: She has not been truthful -- truthful -- truthful with us.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
NANCY GRACE, HOST: What can you tell me -- out to you, Natisha Lance -- about a secret new search? I`m hearing that evidence-- that news right now?
NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, Nancy, there is a search going on today for Zahra Baker`s body. Cadaver dogs were used as a part of this search. However, police are not exposing to us where the search is taking place, how close it is to the Baker home, or how many dogs are being used.
But they are saying that they are using cadaver dogs, still looking for Zahra Baker`s body, while they are still searching the landfill looking for this significant piece of evidence.
GRACE: To Dr. Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst, author of "Dealbreakers."
Dr. Bethany, you know, this woman has lived in and around the North Carolina area for a long time. Don`t you think that it would be very predictable like Casey Anthony to go hide the body or evidence somewhere only she thinks she knows about. Some hiding hole in her youth?
BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST, AUTHOR OF "DEALBREAKERS": Yes, I think it`s predictable because often when these women kill children, they do tend to stash the body close to the house. I think the stats say within three blocks of the house is where you`ll find the body of the child.
And if I can say a comment about the 911 call, the fact that the dad says the little girl is brooding and she`s only 10. This is what we see with domestic abuse against children, is that there`s perceptual distortions in the age of the child.
Like the adult might say, well, of course I had to hit and spank Johnny, he didn`t clean the house. And then you find out that Johnny is only 5. So they confuse what it means to be an adult and what it means to be a child.
And I love how he tries to butter up the 911 operator by asking her how he is before he pitches his false, implausible transparent story.
GRACE: With me right now is a special guest, it is Marc Klaas, the president and founder of KlaasKids Foundation. Joining us out of San Francisco.
The other night I asked Marc for the first time in all the years that I`ve known him his response to the way that Zahra`s father reacted to Zahra`s disappearance. And he compared that to when he discovered his little girl Polly was missing.
And I will never for the rest of my life forget what you said.
Marc, I want to hear your thoughts on tonight`s developments. The new search by cadaver dogs where police are not revealing. The taking of the mattresses out of the landfill.
What more do you think, Marc?
MARC KLAAS, PRESIDENT AND FOUNDER, KLAASKIDS FOUNDATION: Well, unlike the Lori Hacking case when they knew almost exactly when she disappeared, which was while she was out jogging one morning, we have a two-week window here. So as soon as they find the relevant garbage grid, they`re going to have two weeks worth of garbage to go through.
Now I believe that Jean`s observation about the mattress was really spot on. And we can only hope that they`re looking for a mattress and not the tiny little leg -- the tiny little partial leg of this poor little girl. That truly is looking for the proverbial needle in a haystack.
They have so many pieces of information and they`re looking in so many places that one can only hope that one of them proves to be true.
And I agree with Bethany, and I think that the statistics will prove this out. That children that are murdered are found within a quarter mile of the location that they were murdered in, so they can almost just draw a circle around that -- a perimeter around that, and concentrate on that ground and hopefully they`ll be able to solve this case by doing that.
GRACE: You know, Marc Klaas, a lot of times I project on to victims` families how I think they should act having been a crime victim. I am a crime victim. And I know many people think that`s wrong. I don`t think that`s wrong, and I want your opinion, being a crime victim as you are, a victim`s rights crusader.
I want your impression of the behavior of this stepmother and father.
KLAAS: Well, she`s just pure evil. Remember she had a picture of little Zahra on her MySpace or Facebook page and she called her the dark child.
GRACE: Dark child.
KLAAS: This little girl with a beautiful little smile.
GRACE: Yes.
KLAAS: So she`s pure evil. He is complicit, whether he had an active role in disappearing this little girl or whether it`s simply through turning a blind eye and enabling her to do what she did.
He`s absolutely complicit. His job is to protect that child, not to ignore her, not to turn a blind eye to her and let evil acts be committed upon her.
GRACE: Now, Marc, you could not have put it any better.
And also, Natisha Lance, we learn tonight that step mommy lawyers up with a lawyer that specializes in murder one defense.
LANCE: Right, Nancy. She was visited by this lawyer. Her name is Lisa Dubs. And she has a history of actually representing women who are accused of killing her -- killing their children. There was a case back in 2008 where a woman kept her two children in the house, 10 and 8 years old, house was set on fire, she was able to save that woman`s life from getting the death penalty.
GRACE: Unleash the lawyers. Renee Rockwell, Peter Odom. It`s kind of like coming into court with Johnnie Cochran. All right? You know you`re guilty then, and everybody else in the courtroom does too, Rockwell?
RENEE ROCKWELL, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: OK, so now because of the attorney you get are we going to use that as evidence against the defendant, Nancy?
GRACE: Why am I not surprised that`s what you said? What about it, Odom?
PETER ODOM, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: She`s being looked at for murder, I would do exactly the same thing. And the more innocent I was, the better I`d look for. And I can`t believe that you`re suggesting that because she hires a murder lawyer --
GRACE: I didn`t suggest anything.
ODOM: -- that`s an admission of guilt. No, you came right out and said it.
GRACE: I just said --
ODOM: That`s not an admission of guilt.
GRACE: You walk into a courtroom with Johnnie Cochran at your side -- God rest his soul -- everybody knows you did it.
OK, fine, you can say whatever you want to.
ODOM: Not everybody.
GRACE: But I know what I know.
ODOM: Not everybody.
GRACE: And right now we are switching gears. I want to tell you about a missing psychic.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Her name is Kathy Adams.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: She`s a local psychic working under the name Psychic Kay.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Her family is pleading for anyone with any information about her to come forward.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Kathy`s sister claims Kathy has been planning to leave her husband.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She`d even book a plane ticket to Atlanta, but she never got on the plane.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Police believe foul play is involved.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Detectives tell a local affiliate KMGH that her husband John Marks has also vanished.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Suspicious circumstances.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Detectives are working to solve the case of a missing psychic.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: When is Colorado --
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight out to Alexis Weed. Alexis, what happened to Kathy Adams?
ALEXIS WEED, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Nancy, Kathy Adams hasn`t been heard from for two weeks. It was her sister who last spoke with her over the phone. Her sister is out of state, and after about five days of not hearing from her sister, she called police there in Ft. Collins, Colorado, and said, you know what? I`d like a welfare check on my sister.
Police went then over to the home that Adams shares with her common- law husband, John Marks, Jr., and found that there were suspicious circumstances, so suspicious that they expect that foul play occurred, Nancy.
GRACE: Jean Casarez, the husband has been in quite a bit of trouble, has he not?
JEAN CASAREZ, LEGAL CORRESPONDENT, "IN SESSION": Right. Well, initially she was going to leave her husband because, as the sister says, he has had control over her for 20 years. She purchased a plane ticket to go to Atlanta to stay with her brother. But she never made the flight because she suddenly went missing.
He has been arrested several times, 2007, DUI, he pleaded guilty, sentenced to driving with an ability impaired.
GRACE: There have been a lot of recent problems between her and the husband. John Marks, Jr.
Alexis Weed, where is he right now? Has he been located?
WEED: No, Nancy. Police have not been able to locate him. The vehicle, though, that this couple shares was located about 30 miles south of their home. It was at a motel in Long Mont, Colorado.
GRACE: To Michelle Whitedove, psychic joining us out of Atlanta.
Miss Whitedove, thank you for being with us. I want to talk to you about the profession.
MICHELLE WHITEDOVE, PSYCHIC, AUTHOR AND EXPERT: Yes.
GRACE: When you work with, I guess, clients, one on one, do they become angry with you if your predictions don`t come true, or do some of them get obsessed? They are obsessive, almost compulsive, in coming to you over and over and over?
WHITEDOVE: Yes, I call them psychic junkies. And that`s not something I allow to happen.
GRACE: What do you make of psychic junkies? Do you think that would be any kind of a threat to Kathy Adams?
WHITEDOVE: Psychic junkies? You know people that are just looking for the answers that they want to hear. No. From what I understand, my manager called me and asked me to do this and -- forgive me, I have a little bit of an allergy issue.
So I took the call and yes, she was psychic, but you know, Nancy, in any profession as I`m sure you know being anyone`s lawyer --
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: 57-year-old Kathy Adams has vanished.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: They say she planned to leave her husband. She`d even booked a plane ticket to Atlanta but she never got on the plane. And that`s when the sheriff`s office got involved.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Police find the couple`s car at a motel.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: They`ve collected suspicious evidence from the couple`s home.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Where is Colorado psychic Kathy Adams.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Where is Colorado psychic Kathy Adams?
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Her family, they say she planned to leave her husband.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: She had a volatile relationship.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Suspicious circumstances.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Suspicious evidence.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Foul play occurred.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: But she never got on the plane.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: One day later, police find the couple`s car at a motel 30 miles from the couple`s home.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Really close to an airport.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: And that`s where the sheriff`s office got involved.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Out to Dr. Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst, author of "Dealbreakers."
Bethany, the psychic that we had on as a guest was describing psychic junkies. That, you know, there are people that have to call their psychic before they make any move. They`re on the phone with them, they go visit them almost daily.
And they get obsessed before they will do anything. They consult a psychic. They get addicted to the psychic.
MARSHALL: Yes, I think that`s quite common. They want to hear some magical thing, and they hope that they`ll hear some magical thing about the future that will come back and make their current life better.
In my field we call it a compensatory mechanism. To compensate for whatever is going wrong in their life. But what I think is more likely in terms of who was obsessed with this poor woman was her husband. Because we know that women who are victims of domestic homicide are stalked and abused prior to the act.
GRACE: Out to the lines, Betty in Kentucky. Hi, Betty, what`s your question?
BETTY, CALLER FROM KENTUCKY: It`s a pleasure to talk to you, Nancy. Finally.
GRACE: Likewise.
BETTY: My question is, because I have used a psychic before, does she work for, like, an individual company or was she just like her own personal --
GRACE: Good question. To you, Alexis Weed, where did she have her office?
WEED: Nancy, her office was out of her home. She worked out of her home.
GRACE: OK. You know, all of you people that poo-poo psychics, that 1995 I poo-pooed them my whole life. A friend who will remain nameless got me to go have my cards read. 1995 said I would marry late in life to a man I already knew, I would have two children, a boy and a girl.
OK. Out to the lines, Dot, Virginia. Hi, Dot.
DOT, CALLER FROM VIRGINIA: Hi, Nancy. I`ve been trying to get in contact with you for a long time.
GRACE: Thank you for continuing to try. What`s your question, dear?
DOT: I just want to know -- I might being sarcastic, but I just wanted to know, these psychics are supposed to be able to --
GRACE: Then how come she didn`t know she was going to --
(CROSSTALK)
DOT: Yes. How come she didn`t know what was going to happen?
GRACE: Yes.
DOT: Yes.
(LAUGHTER)
GRACE: You know, Dot, that question`s been posed to me many times about this case. We`re talking about 57-year-old Kathy Adams, she`s absolutely precious.
To Ron Shindel, former NYPD deputy inspector. Where do we go from here? We can`t find the husband. We know she`s had problems with him. Where do we go? What do cops need to do right now?
Everybody, tip line 970-416-1985.
Go ahead, Ron.
RON SHINDEL, FORMER NYPD DEPUTY INSPECTOR: Nancy, the next step, of course, is the car. They have some evidence from the car, they have some evidence from the home, they`ve executed some search warrants. They`re probably going through computer records. They`re probably going to home records.
They`re going to try to piece together where some possible routes could go. If both of them are alive or if one of them was alive. They`re going to try to piece all of this together. And I think the next few -- the next few hours, the next few day will lead them to the right trail.
GRACE: Everybody, I`ve got one more story I want to tell you about tonight. A former Playmate of the Year, suspected in the cold blooded shooting of her husband.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: A former "Playboy" Playmate of the Year has been arrested for attempted murder after allegedly shooting her husband.
Former "Playboy" bunny Angela Dorian was arrested Saturday night and faces life in prison after she allegedly tried to kill her husband during a domestic dispute.
Sources tell TMZ that police believe Dorian and her husband were having an argument that became physical. Allegedly causing Dorian to grab a handgun and fire at least one shot into her husband`s upper body.
Reports also emerge that when cops first arrived on the scene, Dorian allegedly told them her husband was actually shot by say drug dealer. Dorian has pled not guilty and remains behind bars on $1.5 million bond.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Out to Debra Mark, anchor, Talkradio 790 KABC. I guess it`s the same drug lord that shot Nicole Brown Simpson and so many others?
What do we know, Debra Mark, joining us out of L.A.?
DEBRA MARK, ANCHOR, TALKRADIO 790 KABC: Well, police are not confirming that she said that it was drug dealers. I mean those are some reports that are floating around.
But what we do know is that her husband of 20 years is still in the hospital, in extremely critical condition. She will be going back to court November 1st for a preliminary hearing.
GRACE: To Matt Zarrell, our producer on the story, what more can you tell me? Flush out the facts.
MATT ZARRELL, NANCY GRACE STAFFER, COVERING STORY: Yes. Police are saying this is part of an ongoing domestic dispute. There are report that they were having an argument. That argument turned physical and that`s when she grabbed the semiautomatic weapon, and from close range fired at least one shot to her upper -- to his upper body. He is on his deathbed right now. We do not know if he`s going to survive.
GRACE: To Dr. Robert Kaufmann, doctor of internal medicine, Atlanta.
A semiautomatic weapon? What would that do to a victim?
DR. ROBERT KAUFMANN, M.D., INTERNAL MEDICINE: Well, it depends on what it hits inside the body. If it hits the aorta, a part of the heart, a big blood vessel, they could bleed to death.
Also you worry about if you`re bleeding out from one area, they do resuscitate him. If they don`t get enough oxygen to their brain and they`ll have permanent brain damage even if they do survive.
GRACE: And also, Dr. Kaufmann, with a semi, and telling how many bullets he took. It`s not like you`ve got to pull the trigger for each bullet?
KAUFMANN: No. They could have multiple wounds, multiple holes, and multiple organs and multiple blood vessels.
GRACE: Back to the lawyers. To you, Peter Odom, may I ask why would anyone have a semiautomatic weapon in their home?
ODOM: Self-protection, Nancy. Many people have guns in their homes.
GRACE: Semiautomatic weapon? I didn`t say gun.
ODOM: Yes, semiautomatic --
GRACE: I didn`t say gun.
ODOM: Semiautomatic weapon.
GRACE: I said semi.
ODOM: Police officers -- police officers carry them. They can be very effective weapon --
GRACE: That`s not what I asked you.
ODOM: Why would someone have them?
GRACE: But police officers have to be ready to take on many, many assailants at once. Think gang warfare. I`m talking about just a regular person at home.
Why do you need a machine gun?
ODOM: I would tell you, Nancy --
GRACE: Renee Rockwell?
ROCKWELL: This doesn`t have to be a machine gun. A 9mm is semiautomatic. I know it`s better practice for a female to have a revolver but Nancy, this is America and of course you can have a gun at your house. As a matter of fact, you probably need a gun at your house.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: A former "Playboy" playmate has been arrested on attempted murder charges.
Reports emerge that when cops first arrived on scene, Dorian allegedly told them that her husband was shot by a drug dealer. Dorian has pled not guilty and remains behind bars on $1.5 million bond.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Former Playmate of the Year Angela Dorian was arrested in Hollywood after she allegedly shot her husband inside their home.
According to reports, police believe Dorian and her husband were having an argument that turned physical. And that`s when Dorian allegedly grabbed a hand gun and shot her husband at least once in the upper body.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: To Dr. Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst and author.
Dr. Bethany, do you see a trend of absolutely flawless, beautiful people literally getting away with murder?
MARSHALL: Well, what I do see is if beautiful people get special privileges then often other people do not hold them accountable for very bad behavior throughout the life span. So they have rage attacks. If they become rageful at perceived rejection, insults, abandonment, and they take it out on other people, the people in their lives are less likely to hold them responsible so they get worse throughout the life span rather than getting better which most of us have to learn to control ourselves over the life span and this woman did not learn how to control herself.
GRACE: To Debra Mark, Talkradio anchor, 790 KABC joining us out of L.A..
Debra, again, thank you for being with us. Explain to me what we know of the arrest of the "Playmate" Angela Dorian.
MARK: She was arrested Saturday night after the shooting and as we mentioned before there were reports that first she was blaming it on a drug dealer. She was put in jail. She was arraigned on Tuesday. She pleaded not guilty and she is still in jail on $1.5 million bond and she goes back November first for the preliminary hearing.
GRACE: Everyone, let`s stop and remember, Army Sergeant First Class Ronald Wood, 28, Cedar City, Utah, killed Iraq. Awarded the Bronze Star, Purple Heart, Combat Action badge, Global War on Terrorism service medal.
Loved reading, music, body building, running, laughing. Favorite color, blue. Always concerned about everyone else and making his family happy. Leaves behind parents Ron Sr. and Jody, brothers Cody, Johnny, Nathan. Served National Guard, sister Jilly.
Ronald Wood, American hero.
Thanks to our guests but especially to you for being with us tonight. And happy birthday to Georgia friend of the show, David Hillar (ph). Here he is with Kay, his wife.
David, please stay strong.
And happy birthday to Florida friend Liliana Abrams, and grandmother of five, mother of two, including one of our experts, Paula Bloom.
Feliz (INAUDIBLE). Happy birthday, Liliana.
Everyone, I`ll see you tomorrow night. 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.
END
