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Nancy Grace
Zahra`s Mattress Recovered From Landfill; Rumors Swirling Zahra Baker`s Body Found; 3-day-old Infant Mauled to Death by Family Pit Bull
Aired October 26, 2010 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight, live, North Carolina. A 10-year-old little girl snatched from her own bedroom in the dark of night. The little girl, Zahra, completely dependent on two hearing aids, can only walk using a prosthetic leg after losing her left leg to childhood bone cancer, vanishes into thin air, her bedroom empty, prosthetic leg missing, hearing aids left behind. Last personal to see her alive, stepmommy. And did stepmommy confess to writing a phony million-dollar ransom note?
Investigators scour a local landfill after they get the make, model, serial number of Zahra`s prosthetic leg. In the last 24 hours, investigators yank stepmommy out of her private jail cell, hauling her handcuffed in the back of a squad car to a densely wooded area and deep creek bed. Simultaneously, Zahra`s father picked up at North Carolina`s international airport and thrown behind bars, while we learn from inside the investigation, stepmommy gets rid of Zahra`s mattress in the 48 hours before she finally reports Zahra gone.
Bombshell tonight. Has stepmommy cracked? Sources behind jailhouse walls tell us stepmommy cooperating with police. Or is it just a big fake with stepmommy trying to save her own skin? Does stepmommy think Daddy`s behind bars turning state`s evidence against her? Police demand stepmommy take a polygraph. In the last hours, just uncovered by landfill workers and turned over to police, a mattress believed to be Zahra`s, containing DNA evidence now being analyzed. Does it reveal the blood of 10-year-old Zahra?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Stepmother.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Elisa Baker.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Arrested on several charges unrelated to the disappearance.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Inconsistencies in her statement. She has not been truthful with us.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police are not ruling her out as a person of interest.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The arrested stepmother of 10-year-old Zahra Baker joined police in the search for the missing North Carolina girl.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Elisa Baker was in the back of this SUV at the search area in the Dudley Shoals (ph) community of Caldwell County.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is Zahra`s stepmother still considered a person of interest?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Anything`s a possibility at this time.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Zahra`s stepmom, Elisa Baker, was taken from jail to the newest search site.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She says that she is not a killer.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Her parents said they last saw her at 2:30 Saturday morning.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you think your wife might have had some involvement in all (INAUDIBLE)
ADAM BAKER, ZAHRA`S FATHER: I don`t know.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you suspect foul play?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Anything`s a possibility right now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Also, live, Jacksonville, Florida. A couple brings home their first child, a baby boy, just 72 hours old. They both leave the baby alone with the family dog, a pitbull. The baby boy defenseless, mauled to death. What is wrong with these people? Don`t they know a pitbull is a deadly weapon?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A 3-day-old baby boy was killed by the family pitbull.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A dog attacked and killed.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The 3-day-old newborn baby boy.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is a picture of the pitbull that killed Justin Valentin (ph).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now police are investigating if the child was left unsupervised.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: His father saying, quote, "I don`t know what happened. My wife went to the restroom, and the dog got to the baby."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The red pitbull attacked the 3-day-old baby.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Now state child welfare investigators are trying to determine whether Justin`s death was a case of child abuse, neglect or a case of a tragic accident.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: His father saying, quote, "We`re not neglectful parents."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Trying to determine if the child was left unsupervised by the parents and for how long.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Bombshell tonight. A 10-year-old girl snatched from her own bedroom in the dark of night. Tonight, has her stepmommy cracked? Sources behind jailhouse walls tell us stepmommy cooperating with police, or is it all a big fake with stepmommy trying to save her own skin? In the last hours, just uncovered by landfill workers, turned over to cops, a mattress believed to be Zahra`s.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Zahra Clare Baker.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She is hearing-impaired.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Elisa Baker, Zahra Baker`s stepmother.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police arrested her stepmother on unrelated charges.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This investigation has not eliminated her as a person of interest.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is now being investigated as a homicide.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Homicide.
GRACE: Murder case.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police say.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Elisa Baker.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Stepmom.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Admitted she wrote a ransom note.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Elisa Baker.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Easily got frustrated with the little girl.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Apparent history of cruelty. She called her...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Called her...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... a dark child.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Presumed murdered.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Homicide investigation.
BAKER: It appears they may have taken my daughter.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police do not believe that Zahra is still alive.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Bags of evidence.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Drained a pond.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Removed a mattress set and then what appeared to be bed rails.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Cadaver dogs.
GRACE: K9s.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Cadaver dogs.
GRACE: Hit on Daddy`s industrial wood chipper.
BAKER: Everybody knows more than I do.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight out to Jean Casarez, legal correspondent, "In Session," joining us from the field. Jean Casarez, what`s this about Mommy suddenly cooperating?
JEAN CASAREZ, "IN SESSION" (via telephone): Well, they are confirming -- police are confirming, and investigators -- she is cooperating. But here is the big news today, and it has to do with that mattress, the mattress that we saw them search for in that landfill. Police are denying this, but the rumors are circulating that that mattress, Zahra`s mattress, will have within it the body of Zahra Baker. Now, once again, the police are denying this. What they are confirming, though, is that late today as they were regrading, they believe they found Zahra`s mattress in that landfill. It`s being tested right now.
GRACE: And Jean Casarez, the way it was found -- everyone, there are reports that a mattress has been found, Zahra`s mattress. Police are saying it absolutely has DNA on it. They still will not comment on rumors that Zahra`s body has been found stuffed in the mattress. In fact, they are denying it at this point.
The way it was found, Jean Casarez, was actually by landfill workers.
CASAREZ: That`s right. They were regrading the landfill, and they sort of stumbled upon it because they had searched so stringently for so many days to find her mattress. But they are confirming that this late- hour find is the mattress of Zahra Baker, they believe.
GRACE: Out to our chief editorial producer, Ellie Jostad. The search for the mattress has been a big question mark for me from the very beginning because I didn`t understand what they had. Why were they focusing on a mattress so much? Now, Liz, if you can roll back that video you were just showing us, we see them taking mattresses out of the home. We also know, Ellie, that they`ve got evidence that they are saying absolutely proves Zahra is dead.
ELLIE JOSTAD, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Right.
GRACE: Now, what is that evidence? Because they seem so sure the girl is dead, and we don`t have any evidence to suggest that she`s anything more than missing. But combine that with their dogged determination to find a mattress, why are they zeroed in on a mattress?
JOSTAD: Well, Nancy, we`re told that witnesses say that the family got rid of a mattress, a mattress from Zahra`s room, just a couple of days before she was reported missing. So the big question, of course, is, is there some sort of evidence related to Zahra`s disappearance on a mattress? That`s why we believe they`re looking for it. And you`re right, police are saying now that they have evidence that suggests that Zahra is dead. We do know that they said earlier that cadaver dogs did hit on the scent of human decomposition on both the family vehicles.
GRACE: We are taking your calls. Out to Kelly in North Carolina. Hi, Kelly. What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, it`s not more of a question, Nancy. I wanted to say first off, I am from North Carolina and I have heard about this story a lot. And I just want to say I watch your show every night, and I heard your psychologist on there, I believe it was last week, matter of fact, who stated that people with disabilities that have children with disabilities are very stressed and this becomes a very stressful time.
I`m a mother of a daughter who`s blind and has cerebral palsy and she has seizure disorders. And I would never treat my child the way that this sick lady did to that little girl. And for people to think and your psychologist to think that families are unable to take care of them -- that`s crap. And I just want to say that because I don`t really appreciate someone downgrading families with children with disabilities.
GRACE: You know what, Kelly? You are so right. In fact, in my family, we have someone with a disability and they`ve had it for many, many years now. And the love and the care that is given every single day -- in fact, instead of slacking off, I think it`s intensified. There`s even more love and more care and devotion.
Kelly, do you have a question about the way they treated Zahra?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, I kind of wonder if the husband had any -- really, anything to do with this, if he`s just trying to cover it up.
GRACE: Good question. Good question. Out to you, Lillian Glass -- Dr. Glass, psychologist, author of "Toxic People." There`s no way that I believe that the mother was doing all this and -- the stepmother -- and the father knew nothing.
LILLIAN GLASS, PSYCHOLOGIST: You`re so right. And first of all, I just, Nancy, have to say I totally agree with the caller because just because a child has a disability, that does not make you more stressed than any other parent. And what she said was right on and I`m with her all the way. Bottom line is, the father`s demeanor leaves a lot to be desired with regard to his body language.
GRACE: And back to Jean Casarez, legal correspondent, "In Session." What do we know about the stepmommy now cooperating?
CASAREZ: Well, we know that she`s got two attorneys by her side, one a noted capital defense attorney. We know that she`s behind bars. And they are saying, police are saying, that they are cooperating right now. What does that mean? We don`t fully know. But we know she went to a wooded site yesterday, and she has allegedly given them more information.
GRACE: To John Miller, editor, "Hickory Daily Record." You`re there on the scene, John. What can you tell us about reports from behind jailhouse walls? Our sources telling us mommy, stepmommy, suddenly cooperating. Look, it`s no coincidence that they arrest the father at the international airport, they throw him behind bars, and within two hours, mommy is in the back -- stepmommy`s in the back of a squad car in handcuffs, going to this densely wooded area and a dry creek bed. Within 10 more hours, we hear she`s cooperating.
Do you believe, John Miller, she`s just trying to save her own skin now that Daddy`s behind bars and possibly turning state`s evidence against her?
JOHN MILLER, "HICKORY DAILY RECORD": Well, Nancy, I do know that she has been cooperating with police since Sunday. I don`t know exactly what`s being said because police aren`t releasing that information.
But there`s a couple of things along the timeline to reiterate. One is that Adam Baker wasn`t arrested at the airport. He turned himself in at the police department on Monday morning. And then later Monday afternoon, it looks like Elisa Baker went to one of the sites. She may have gone to another site because she didn`t make it back to the county jail until 6:00 PM.
GRACE: OK, well, you know, maybe I`m wrong, but doesn`t that mean that he ends up behind bars, and a couple hours later, she starts cooperating?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She was last season sleeping in her bedroom.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The first 911 call made by Zahra`s stepmother.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Our back yard`s on fire!
911 OPERATOR: Your what`s on fire?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Our back yard.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Her dad reported her missing 12 hours later.
911 OPERATOR: No one has seen your daughter since 2:30 this morning?
BAKER: No. My daughter`s, I think, coming into puberty, so she`s hitting that broody stage.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Elisa Baker.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Charged.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Charged with a class H (ph).
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Felony obstruction of justice.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Elisa Baker.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Has reportedly been brought out to a new search area.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nothing ever upset her.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: From the jail.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Less than a mile.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: From where Elisa Baker used to live.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Unless she.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Elisa Baker.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is responsible.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Admitted to writing the ransom note.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There`s no logic in the world.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She had nothing to do with this.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why she would have written a ransom note.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So many people failed her.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: DSS was informed about all this stuff.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If she wouldn`t walk right, she would get punished.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Reported them to Department of Social Services.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Adam, can we talk to you?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There was a bruise under her eye.
GRACE: What DFACS, Department of Family and Children`s Services, did or did not observe.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She would scream (INAUDIBLE) I hate you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Zahra.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did she ever do anything, Adam?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Not that anybody (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) without them?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Not a bit concerned about their own daughter.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: For those of you just joining us, reports swirling that Zahra`s body -- the 10-year-old little girl with the prosthetic leg who has battled not only bone cancer but lung cancer, as well, completely dependent on hearing aids -- that her body has been found stuffed in a mattress. Police are denying that at this hour.
What they will say is that they have found a mattress that they believe to be Zahra`s. It fits the description of the little girl`s mattress and it is covered in DNA. The mattress has been found almost by accident at that landfill, where police have been tediously digging through tons of refuse.
We are taking your calls live. First to Marc Klaas, president and founder of Klaas Kids Foundation, joining us out of San Francisco. Weigh in, Marc Klaas.
MARC KLAAS, KLAAS KIDS FOUNDATION: Well, first of all, covered in DNA -- I don`t know what that means unless it means that it`s covered in blood. But my impression, Nancy, is that this woman is just like a shark. She`s always moving forward. She`s destroying whatever is in her path, whether it`s relationships, whether it`s a stranger`s bank account or, in this case, whether it`s a little girl.
She has absolutely no self-reflection at all. She doesn`t look back. And if she is cooperating with law enforcement right now, it`s for totally self-serving reasons. She is doing everything she can to put the entire blame for whatever happened to this little girl on Adam. And he, in his passive sort of laid-back manner, won`t even see this coming until he`s probably charged with murder one.
GRACE: Marc Klaas, do you have any doubt in your mind the stepmother, Elisa Baker, is responsible for this girl`s disappearance?
KLAAS: I think that -- he may be complicit -- he is complicit in some way, whether it`s actively or passively. But she is absolutely the mastermind of this entire episode. There`s no doubt in my mind at all.
GRACE: And also, to C.W. Jensen, retired Portland police captain -- Captain, thank you for being with us. Captain, what do you make of the fact that first the father is over at the North Carolina international airport, he gets arrested, thrown behind bars, and suddenly, within a couple hours, the stepmommy is cooperating?
C.W. JENSEN, RETIRED PORTLAND POLICE CAPT.: Well, remember that the stepmommy had -- was arrested because she made a fake ransom note. I mean, come on! How lame is that? So they grab Dad, they put him in custody. She`s already in custody. And now what you see is the classic putting one person against the other. The dad gets pressured. He starts cracking. He has no attorney, like Mommy does. So they put the screws to him. He starts giving them information. Then they go to stepmother and her attorneys and say, Hey, here`s the deal. We recovered some evidence in the landfill and here`s what Dad says. Are you going to cooperate or not? And it sounds like she is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A new search is under way.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are running a homicide investigation.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: North Carolina landfill.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are looking for a piece of evidence.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Bed mattress.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A key piece of evidence.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mattress set.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: For one specific piece of evidence, a mattress.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Searching for a piece of evidence.
BAKER: Appreciate everyone -- everyone doing what they`re doing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: The last person to see Zahra alive.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Would you state your name, please.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Elisa.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Elisa.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Elisa Baker.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Elisa Baker.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Has reportedly been brought out to a new search area.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She had nothing to do with this.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just hours after Zahra`s own father, Adam Baker, was arrested at the Hickory police station.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She would make fun of the child for not walking right.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She`s living on one leg.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She says that she is not a killer.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She`s had cancer all of her life.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She`s gone deaf.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Elisa Baker would taunt her, cuss at her.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This woman was somehow home-schooling this little girl.
GRACE: They never registered Zahra for home schooling.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She loves her daughter.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She`s downright evil!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are taking your calls. Unleash the lawyers. Joining us tonight out of Philadelphia, renowned attorney, author of "Prosecutorial Misconduct," Joe Lawless. Also joining us, veteran defense attorney out of Atlanta Peter Odom. OK, Lawless, within a couple of hours after Daddy`s thrown behind bars, stepmommy starts cooperating? What is that, like Misty Croslin and tot mom Casey Anthony and Scott Peterson -- they all cooperated. There you go. Take a look at tot mom. There she is primping before she started hours worth of talking to police. Everything she said was a lie. Why should I believe anything stepmommy says?
JOE LAWLESS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, Nancy, if she`s giving them information that`s going to lead to solving the crime, certainly they`re going to talk to her. But you know this drill. You`ve got two defendants. They`re playing one against the other. The problem that creates for the police is pinning down who, really, the most culpable person is, and I think that`s eventually going to depend on the forensic evidence.
But you`re right, you`ve got to look at what this woman says and look at it through a couple of different prisms because the odds are she`s painting a picture most favorable to her.
GRACE: Well, why don`t I just throw them in the same courtroom together, Peter Odom, let them boil, let them simmer in the same stew, and do this in court until we finally get the truth out of them?
PETER ODOM, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, that`s exactly what`s going to happen. We`re headed there. These two have already no doubt started to point the finger at each other. And as Joe suggests, it`s going to come down to the forensic evidence. But we`re looking at two people who are just going to be blaming each other, and the process is under way.
GRACE: There`s only one problem with that. To you, Ellie Jostad. I know you know the answer to this. If the state seeks the death penalty -- and don`t say I`m jumping the gun. It`s obvious these parents were involved. If they seek the death penalty, they can`t be tried together, too much risk on appeal. Does the North Carolina death penalty -- is it still in place? And what`s the mode of execution?
JOSTAD: It is. North Carolina does have the death penalty. It is lethal injection, Nancy.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Arrested stepmother of 10-year-old Zahra Baker joined police in the search for the missing North Carolina girl.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Zahra`s stepmom Elisa Baker --
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Decided to cooperate --
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Was taken from jail to the newest search site.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: By providing some information --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She says that she is not a killer.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Just hours after her husband, Zahra`s father Adam Baker, was arrested.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Her parents said they last saw her at 2:30 Saturday morning.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: You think your wife might have had some involvement in all this?
ADAM BAKER, FATHER OF MISSING 10-YEAR-OLD GIRL ZAHRA BAKER: I don`t know.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: No sign of Zahra.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He seems concerned.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Dad says he hasn`t seen her since Thursday.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t know how sincere his concern is.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Ten-year-old Zahra Baker --
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Presumed murdered.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Homicide investigation.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There`s no body yet.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Sleeping in her bedroom. Her dad reported her missing 12 hours later.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: Your daughter`s missing?
A. BAKER: Yes, ma`am.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
NANCY GRACE, HOST: For those of you just joining us at the bottom of the hour, out to Jean Casarez, legal correspondent, "In Session." with reports swirling that Zahra`s body, the 10-year-old little girl who so valiantly fought bone and lung cancer, dependent on a prosthetic leg and hearing aids as a result of that treatment, body found stuffed in her mattress.
Police are denying that but they are saying they have found a mattress they believe to be Zahra`s and it is covered in DNA.
Jean Casarez, tell me what you know.
JEAN CASAREZ, LEGAL CORRESPONDENT, "IN SESSION" (via phone): Well, we know that that piece of evidence that they were looking for was the mattress, and late today, when they were just resurfacing the landfill area, they came across a mattress they are now saying they believe that is the mattress.
It is being tested right now as we speak for DNA and every type of forensic evidence they can comb from it.
GRACE: We are also hearing tonight from sources behind bars that stepmommy has cracked and is cooperating with police. We also hear that they have repeatedly asked -- demanded -- that she take a polygraph. So far we understand she has refused, as has the father.
Unleash the lawyers. Renowned attorney Joe Lawless out of the Philadelphia jurisdiction, attorney and author. Peter Odom, defense attorney, Atlanta.
Peter Odom, why not take the poly? Once again, if they are so innocent, why no poly?
PETER ODOM, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Nancy, why would anybody take a polygraph voluntarily? Those things are unreliable. They are not allowed in any courtroom and you know what they do? They catch people that are telling the truth that might be nervous and they miss the very good liars, the pathological liars.
GRACE: OK --
ODOM: And you know it. And you know it.
GRACE: CW Jensen --
ODOM: And you never used one in court in your entire career.
GRACE: Actually, put Odom up.
ODOM: You never used a polygraph in court. In court.
GRACE: I did. Yes.
ODOM: But it must have been by some --
GRACE: I did use a polygraph in court.
ODOM: Because somebody agreed, no doubt.
GRACE: And if you would try to stop talking, just try to control yourself for a minute, lips together, don`t blurt out things that you don`t know, Mr. Odom. Number one. I have used a polygraph. It was stipulated ahead of time. That is the custom and practice in this country, which I clarify your point that polygraphs are not admissible in evidence.
They are admissible in evidence, pursuant to a stipulation. In civil court, they are also admissible in evidence. They come into criminal trials when both parties agree up front that they will, and yes, I have used them, and yes, I believe in them.
And to you, CW Jensen, I find it very difficult to believe that anyone that is a veteran in the criminal justice system would say nervous people flaunt polygraphs. That`s not true, Captain Jensen.
CW JENSEN, RETIRED PORTLAND POLICE CAPTAIN: That is not my experience as a homicide detective. I gave polygraphs to dozens and dozens and dozens of people, and most times, parents -- if there`s something going on with their children -- they demanded to take the polygraph.
They know how important it is. They know how important it is to let the police know that they are not involved. So cooperative people pass the polygraph and demand to pass the polygraph. People who are guilty want nothing to do with it because it proves that they are lying.
GRACE: To Marc Klaas, president and founder of KlaasKids Foundation, what about it? Wouldn`t you have wanted to take a polygraph when Polly went missing?
MARC KLAAS, PRESIDENT AND FOUNDER, KLAASKIDS FOUNDATION: Well, in fact, I did take a polygraph and in fact, I was very nervous when the polygraph was being conducted, but you know what, I needed to clear my name. I needed to get this case moving forward.
I know plenty of people that have done it. Those people that don`t, that refuse to do it, ultimately generally seem to be found to be guilty.
GRACE: You know, Marc, I remember exactly your story, that you insisted, you didn`t want to waste any time. You said search me, search my place, search whatever you want to, give me a polygraph, do whatever you want to so you can quit looking at me and I can help you find who took my daughter. That was your position.
KLAAS: Well --
GRACE: Go ahead.
KLAAS: Well, my most -- my most inelegant statement was that I would dance naked on top of a table if that`s what it took for them to redirect their attention to what actually happened. They declined that offer, by the way.
GRACE: You know, Marc, when I think back about what -- you`re the gold standard whenever a child goes missing. I think about Polly Klaas, and I think about the way that you behaved, what you did, what you went through when your girl went missing, and I hold every parent up to you.
Go ahead, Lawless. Tell me how wrong I am.
JOE LAWLESS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY, AUTHOR OF "PROSECUTORIAL MISCONDUCT": I don`t necessarily think you`re wrong, Nancy. I just -- I`m not as trusting of polygraphs as you are. I think they can be subjective. I think under certain circumstances they are a useful tool but I do agree with what you just said about Marc.
He is the gold standard for parents with missing children. And I think it does serve a valuable purpose to eliminate certain suspects under certain sets of situations, but --
GRACE: Unless they`re your clients.
LAWLESS: Well, it would depend on the client. It would depend on the circumstances.
GRACE: I want to go to Dr. Veronica Anderson, host of "Wellness for the Real World." You can find her at DoctorVeronica.com.
Dr. Anderson, the first caller was asking about the treatment of little Zahra due to her disability. If she had already fought cancer, lung and bone cancer, yes, she had hearing aids, yes, she had a prosthetic leg, but there wouldn`t be any ongoing treatment, just ongoing checkups, correct?
DR. VERONICA ANDERSON, HOST, "WELLNESS FOR THE REAL WORLD": Just ongoing checkups, that`s correct. Routine. If she`s already considered cured of her disease, just routine checkups, yes.
GRACE: You know, I`m wondering if the repeated care for Zahra turned into some kind of angry or misplaced resentment.
Out to the lines. Judy in North Carolina, hi, Judy.
For those of you just joining us, reports that little Zahra, 10-year-old, body stuffed in a mattress, that that is why police have been so dead set on finding the little girl`s mattress. This after we know for a fact mommy got rid of Zahra`s mattress and around the 48 hours before she finally reported her missing.
Why get rid of the little girl`s mattress? After the girl we know was already gone.
Judy in North Carolina, hi, dear. What`s your question? Do I have Judy, Elizabeth?
JUDY, CALLER FROM NORTH CAROLINA: Hello?
GRACE: Judy, do you have a question, dear?
JUDY: Yes. But first thing I want to say is, I love your show. I think you are a beautiful person.
GRACE: Thank you. I know I don`t deserve that but I thank you for saying it.
JUDY: Yes, you do. Oh, yes, you do.
GRACE: You know what I was just thinking, Judy, North Carolina? I was wondering if people on the air could see that I have blue fingernails from playing with Lucy and John David right before the show, and I got magic marker and crayons on my hands.
And I was just thinking how somebody could hurt a child like Zahra that had been through so much already, and now tonight, we`re talking about reports that her little body, just 10 years old, has been stuffed in a mattress and that`s what it has come to.
What is your question, dear?
JUDY: Can`t they force these people to take lie detectors? I mean come on. I`m a mother and a grandmother.
GRACE: Judy, Judy, Judy. How many times have I -- have I wondered why but the answer is under our Constitution, under the Fifth Amendment, right to avoid self-incrimination, right to remain silent. It is viewed as forcing someone to incriminate themselves. You cannot force them to take a lie detector.
Kelah in Tennessee, hi, Kelah. Hi, dear, do you have a question?
KELAH, CALLER FROM TENNESSEE: Hello?
GRACE: Yes, dear. You`re on the air. Do you have a question?
KELAH: Yes. I was actually just wondering if the police have -- gave any indication that maybe Zahra went missing weeks before her parents actually reported it.
GRACE: Well, Jean Casarez, with "In Session," as a matter of fact, that`s a very strong possibility. Isn`t the last sighting at the end of September at that furniture store?
CASAREZ: That`s right. September 25th. But when police spoke out several days ago, they were asking anyone in the entire month if they had seen her, so I think they have a concern that she went missing possibly even before that.
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UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Investigators` biggest problem? No Zahra Baker.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Zahra`s father Adam was arrested.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: She was reported missing Saturday afternoon.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: He`s being held on $7,000 bond.
A. BAKER: I got up a little while ago and it appears they took my daughter instead of my boss` daughter.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
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UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: So no one has seen your daughter since 2:30 this morning?
A. BAKER: No. Like I said, we had all that drama last night and me and my wife went back to bed, and my daughter`s, I think coming into puberty, so she`s hitting that brooding stage so we only see her when she comes out when she wants something and that`s about it.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: OK. And did you say that she was handicapped?
A. BAKER: Yes, ma`am. She has above-the-knee amputation.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: OK. She has one leg?
A. BAKER: One leg, yes, ma`am.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: That`s partially amputated?
A. BAKER: Yes. She has a prosthetic leg which apparently they`ve taken with her.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: Prosthetic leg was taken with her?
A. BAKER: Yes, ma`am.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: To Jean Casarez -- for those of you just joining us -- has Zahra`s body been stuffed into a mattress, a mattress just uncovered almost by accident? What do we know, Jean?
CASAREZ: Well, we know that police are saying that witnesses have come forward and told them about this piece of evidence, and they want to find that evidence to corroborate what the witnesses are telling them. They now say it is a mattress. That they found the mattress they believe is Zahra`s.
It`s being tested while the rumors are swirling that her little body might be inside that mattress. The police at this point are saying no, that is not the case. We`re going to have to see what develops.
GRACE: You know, another issue, Jean Casarez, is that now we`re hearing reports stepmommy`s cooperating. I wouldn`t trust her as far as I could throw her. Come on, you know, after that big trek out to that river bed, that creek bed, and those densely wooded areas around it, they didn`t find anything.
I think she`s saying anything she can to blame the daddy now that he`s behind bars. She`s worried he`s turning state`s evidence against her.
CASAREZ: You know, Nancy, we`re learning that she may have taken investigators to three different locations yesterday when she was out. She got two attorneys by her side. They are helping her cooperate in all of this, and they al know one big factor. North Carolina has the death penalty.
GRACE: To Peter Odom and Joe Lawless, both veteran defense attorneys.
Peter Odom, won`t it matter if, in the end, cops realize like they did in tot mom, in Casey Anthony, that she led them on a wild goose chase. It`s just digging, she`s digging her grave with her own teeth every time she speaks.
ODOM: All this is going to come down to the forensics, and the police have known that and that`s why they`ve worked so hard to get that mattress out. And that mattress is no doubt going to tell a story.
The police have been very tight-lipped here, Nancy. I get the sense that there`s a great deal of evidence out there and it`s forensic evidence and that will cook their gooses.
GRACE: OK. Joe Lawless, I`m going to pose the same question to you. If she is in fact leading them on a wild goose chase, which I imagine she is, just like tot mom, won`t that weigh against her in court that all these lies? I don`t believe she`s cooperating.
LAWLESS: Nancy, I have used the phrase before on the show, even a fish wouldn`t get caught if he kept his mouth shut. The more she lies, the more she leads them down the primrose path.
A good prosecutor is going to put each one of those lies in front of a jury and he`ll do a chart of it and he`ll add them all up and he`ll say this shows she was trying to distract the attention from her, this is strong evidence of her consciousness of her own guilt. She`s digging her own grave, you`re absolutely right.
GRACE: Everybody, we are switching gears. I am taking you now to Jacksonville, Florida. A brand new baby, a couple`s first child. They bring the baby home. The baby is 72 hours old. They leave the baby alone with a pit bull. Take a listen.
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UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Police are investigating the death of a three-day- old newborn baby boy that was killed by a pit bull inside his home.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: His father saying that the dog has never shown any signs of aggression in the past, but officers with Animal Care and control who picked the dog up paint a much different picture, saying the pit bull was extremely aggressive with them.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Father of the baby reportedly says he and the baby`s mother left the child alone for just a few seconds to use the bathroom around 10:00 p.m. According to the baby`s father, that`s when the red pit bull attacked the three-day-old baby.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: His father spoke to Channel 4 by phone, saying that he and his wife are in an incredible amount of pain right now.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Investigators are trying to figure out what happened.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Trying to figure it out? OK. Liz, tell me something. Is that a generic shot of a pit bull or is that the pit bull? That is the pit bull? They left a 72-hour baby alone with that? You`re saying yes? Yes. OK.
Nicole Partin, investigative reporter, I think we know what happened. You know when I had the twins, and I didn`t know what I was doing, I had no idea, I would carry them around in the house, if they were asleep, and little car seats that you could pick up like a basket.
I wouldn`t leave them alone in a different room, even by themselves. I had a 19-year-old cat. I wouldn`t even leave them alone with Coco. Are these people crazy?
NICOLE PARTIN, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER: Good evening, Nancy. Yes, we do know it`s common knowledge that these pit bulls have been known for their vicious attacks. We know that this was a male dog between 1 and 2 years old and the father claims that they left the child alone on the bed, while the mother ran to the restroom and in those moments the fatal attack took place.
It`s also interesting to note that the CDC did an investigation and pit bull attacks make up 78 percent of all dog bite fatalities. Many cities now actually have a breed specific law in place and this of course is an ongoing investigation.
We`re trying to find out how long the child was left alone, had this dog ever shown any previous signs of aggression.
GRACE: He`s a pit bull. Matt Zarrell, that`s why they have those signs, warning signs, those yellow warning signs. And all they have on it is a picture, a silhouette of a pit bull. Right? They put it to scare people away. Do I need to know whether the dog has ever mauled somebody before? It`s a pit bull, Zarrell.
MATT ZARRELL, NANCY GRACE STAFFER, COVERING STORY: Yes. And here`s what`s interesting, Nancy. The father does reportedly say that the dog showed no violent aggression before.
GRACE: I don`t care.
ZARRELL: But you have to wonder that if the child showed aggression before does that mean that these parents are going to be charged with something because the child showed -- the dog showed aggression before, and they did nothing about it?
Neighbors say -- reportedly say they saw the dog running wild at some point also, Nancy.
GRACE: Matt Zarrell, I`m hearing the mom just ran to use the bathroom but where was the dad? Did they both have to coincidentally go relieve themselves at the exact same moment?
ZARRELL: That`s a good point. The father says that he also left the room just for a second and that`s when the dog fatally mauled the boy to death.
GRACE: Justin Valentin, 3 days old, killed by a red pit bull in his own home. Father says he and the mommy just left for a few seconds. The baby is dead.
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ZARRELL: The baby`s father reportedly says he and the newborn`s mother left the child alone for a few seconds when the pit bull suddenly attacked the child. The father says the red pit bull had never shown any aggression toward a family member before. The dog has since been euthanized.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are taking your calls out to Susan in Florida. Hi, Susan.
SUSAN, CALLER FROM FLORIDA: Hello, Nancy.
GRACE: Hi, dear. What`s your question?
SUSAN: First, may I say God bless you for the things that you do. You give a voice to so many children and people that do not have voices.
GRACE: Thank you so much.
SUSAN: And God bless your heart. My question as a retired paramedic is, this whole story sounds like bologna. I have never known a pit bull as a retired paramedic that wouldn`t be happy to take a bite out of your leg.
I adopted a Rottweiler puppy that was a mix. The dog jumped on me when I was going through school. I came home from a paper route. The dog was loose. It came up. I thought, well, I`m going to get licked to death. The dog knocked me down. I`m 5`9" and weighed about 160 pounds, strong from throwing those heavy Sunday papers.
This dog knocked me down and was going for my throat. And all I could think of is my children, my gosh. If this was my son --
GRACE: Well, Susan, this is apparently every parent`s worst nightmare come true.
We are bringing you a story out of Jacksonville, possibly the first day home for little Justin Valentin, three days old, attacked by the family pit bull, dead.
Let`s stop and remember Army Private First Class Jeffrey Wallace, 20, Hoopeston, Illinois, killed Iraq. Awarded the Bronze Star, Purple Heart, Army Good Conduct Medal. Loved mixed martial arts, rock concerts, fishing, board games, football, favorite team? Chicago Bears. Favorite movies? "Pulp Fiction" and "Lord of the Rings."
Leaves behind grieving father Scott, sister Michelle, widow, childhood sweetheart Sarah, son Aden he never got to meet.
Jeffrey Wallace, American hero.
Thanks to our guests but especially to you for being with us. I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp, Eastern, and until then, good night, friend.
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