Return to Transcripts main page

Parker Spitzer

Do Democrats Have a Message Problem?; Interview With Michelle Rhee; Tweeting the President

Aired October 28, 2010 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


KATHLEEN PARKER, CNN NEWS ANCHOR: Good evening. I'm Kathleen Parker.

ELIOT SPITZER, CNN NEWS ANCHOR: And I'm Eliot Spitzer. Welcome to the program. Tonight in our "Opening Arguments," you know Kathleen, rule No. 1 in politics, have a message. Whatever it is, drive it home. This White House has forgotten that for the past couple months. They've bounced around from one irrelevancy to another. They started with John Boehner is a bad guy. Who is John Boehner? They went to the Chamber of Commerce is getting money from overseas. Who cares? And then they went to the GOP is responsible for putting us in the economic ditch. We already knew that. None of those is a message that's going to win an election.

PARKER: Well, let me just answer one quick question for you. Who's that? Who's John Boehner? Well, he's the new speaker of the House, effective Tuesday.

SPITZER: Well, we'll see about that. We'll see about that.

PARKER: It's a good thing the Obama administration got that out front. But clearly what they're doing is they're throwing everything against the wall to see what will stick. Because you know why? Because their policies have failed and they're trying to shift the blame, demonize John Boehner, demonize the Chamber of Commerce, for heaven sake, come on.

SPITZER: You know what the problem is? When you don't make an affirmative argument it permits folks like you to say their policies have failed and I understand that. But you know what? They haven't. And in fact, I've got an argument they should have made and if they'd been making it, I think they'd be doing better.

PARKER: I'm shocked, Eliot.

SPITZER: I know that you're shocked that I have an argument to make.

PARKER: Shocked. You have something to say? Oh, my gosh.

SPITZER: Let's a look at the screen. Look at this chart. You know I love numbers. That's what this is going to be. There it is. Isn't that beautiful? Private sector job growth. They're winning. Those red bars, those big long red bars, jobs lost under President Bush. When it turns blue, President Obama takes over. We were losing 700,000 a month, now positive, we are in the good part of the graph, creating jobs. It's working. It's an amazing thing. And you know what? This chart, it can even become a beautiful, cute little bumper sticker. Put a little, you know, little something. There it is. Change is here, change you can believe in. A little happy eyes up top. This is the message they should have been making. The economy is coming back. It's ugly, it's slow, but it's working.

PARKER: Eliot, that's adorable.

SPITZER: I'm glad you agree with that.

PARKER: I just would to point out that those little, tiny, tiny bars on the right that made the tip of the smile, those are the jobs that I assume you would maintain are created by the stimulus bill and they only cost $233,000 apiece.

SPITZER: But, they continue going like this more and more and more.

(BELL)

PARKER: I have...

SPITZER: Get rid of this thing.

PARKER: I have a little chart of my own, if you would. Let's take a look. These are the projected deficits. OK? Under Obama, President Obama, the picture is not exactly rosy. The deficit picture will get real ugly, and I mean real ugly, as it grows and grows. And if you look really closely, Eliot.

SPITZER: Yeah. I'm looking. I don't see anything. I just see red.

PARKER: Yeah. There we go. That's an unhappy face.

SPITZER: All right. You got your bumper sticker, I got mine. You know what, my bumper sticker would win. Look I agree, these deficits are a problem in the out years, what budget folks call the out years, but right now you got to get the economy going they did it with a stimulus that actually brought us back to a point of stability.

Nine point six is an awful number, but it's better than 13 or 14 in terms of unemployment, and they have done something that need to be done. A little patience would have gone a long way and the president should have been pounding home his affirmative message. It is succeeding. This is change you can believe in.

PARKER: Oh God, I'm exhausted. Well, all I can say is that I love it when you argue with me and end up agreeing with me.

SPITZER: I'm not agreeing -- whoa, whoa, whoa, I didn't agree with you.

PARKER: As to your message, by the way, as Press Secretary Robert Gibbs told Robert Draper at the "New York Times Sunday Magazine," it's pretty hard to message 9.6 percent unemployment.

SPITZER: Sure is. We're going to see what happens Tuesday, but I wish they had been talking about this. Anyway, we will talk about the Democrats' message in a moment with one of the more influential governors, Bill Richardson. But first, Kathleen, let's talk about tonight's show.

Coming up, Janine Turner, actress turned Tea Party activist, joins us. She'll explain why Washington desperately needs a fresh brew of ideas and her thoughts on Sarah Palin. And as always, "Name Your Cuts" tonight, as we do every night. We'll push, goad, prod, beg for an answer to our obsession, cutting that deficit you were just talking about.

PARKER: But first it's time for "The Arena." And joining us now from Washington, D.C., the governor of New Mexico, Bill Richardson.

Welcome, Governor.

GOV BILL RICHARDSON (D), NEW MEXICO: Thank you, Kathleen, Nice to be with you and the Governor.

PARKER: Governor Richardson, the election is right around the corner and it would appear to me that the Democrats are about to be slaughtered. We thought it would be fun to have a Democrat give a closing argument. Convince the voters that they're wrong. It's not an easy task, Governor, but go for it.

RICHARDSON: I would go after the Democratic base. I would concentrate more on turnout, mechanics, get out the vote, phone calling, pleas for the Democratic base to turn out, Hispanics, African-Americans, voters that are part of the Democratic coalition. The issue is turnout. I would say that we need two more years. We need an administration that's on your side. We care about jobs. I would not talk about health care, I would not talk about broad issues like financial deregulation, regulation. I would concentrate on connecting emotionally with voters that we are on their side.

But mainly, Kathleen, turnout, mechanics, get out the vote, phone calling, get our base out. Concentrate on the base. Independents, Republicans, less so, get our voters out. And I believe we can do it. I believe that, for instance, I was just in Nevada and I think Senator Reid is going to pull it out. I was there this weekend, I can see the Democratic base coming together.

PARKER: Pennsylvania Governor Ed Rendell has said that the White House has utterly failed in conveying his message. This is a point, of course, Jon Stewart brought up in his interview with President Obama last night. Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA (D), UNITED STATES PRESIDENT: We have done things that some folks don't even know about.

JON STEWART, THE DAILY SHOW WITH JON STEWART: What have you done that we don't know about?

(LAUGHTER)

Are you planning a surprise party for us?

(LAUGHTER)

Filled with jobs and health care.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PARKER: That sounds like Nancy Pelosi a little bit when she said, "We have to pass the bill so we can see what's in it" when she's talking about health care. But what's your opinion of how the White House is communicating?

RICHARDSON: Well look, anybody can do better and I think the president's going to have to broaden his circle of advisers to more gray beard types that have been through this before. What I believe is the White House has done a lot. They've done so much that they can't communicate everything, financial regulation, they've restored our image internationally, we've got a strong foreign policy, a health care reform, the stimulus package. I'm a governor, Kathleen, that's helped us. That's helped us create jobs. That's helped us keep our budgets at bay in state capitals.

And what I'm trying to convey is that voters don't want to hear about all the bills you passed, they want to hear what you're going to do for them about the economy, about job, about foreclosures, about helping families advance economically, that's what we have to concentrate on.

SPITZER: Well, governor, I could not agree more with you about all the points you're making about connecting with the public. I want to switch gears JUST for a moment, here. One of the things we've been asking every guest who's in government or a critic of those who show up here, who shows up here, is "Name Your Cuts." There's no question that we have a chasm of a federal deficit over the next 10 years, about $11 trillion the way they calculate it, of course it's going to vary based on what the tax decisions are they make. Where would you -- having been in government at the federal level, having been in Congress, a cabinet secretary, a governor -- where would you cut to bring our fiscal house back into order?

RICHARDSON: Well, I believe, Governor, since you were a governor, I've been a governor, we know how to balance budgets. We have to do it and observe the law in doing it. What I would do is a process issue. I would pass a constitutional amendment to balance the federal budget over 10 years perhaps, waivers on Medicare, if we're in recession or in war, but look at a process where we do this.

Now, the most obvious target, I believe, is the president, I believe, needs to stick to his exit strategy in Afghanistan. He's put some troops there for our security, the policy makes sense, but then you have to evaluate and see where you are at the end of the line as he has said with his exit strategy. He has to fulfill that because what is most debilitating in a lot of our spending is when we're in two wars. We're phasing out of Iraq and Afghanistan, we're deeply involved -- those are the steps I would take.

SPITZER: We're going to talk a bit more about Afghanistan in a moment. But to come back to the deficit for a second. Would you -- because I want to just sort of get your views on the things we're asking everybody, most of the money and the entitlement, Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid, would you in some way change those programs right now to restore balance over the next 10, 15, 20 years? Social security in particular?

RICHARDSON: Well, you have to slow the growth. You have to have a bipartisan agreement. It's never going to happen if we just demagogue this issue. But, yeah, you got to look at ways that you're at least slowing the growth. You can't just say, all right, we're going to cut Social Security, the base of it. But there are ways that we financially, I believe, Governor, we can be more effective at stabilizing the retirement age, stabilizing Social Security, finding ways, you know, the Peterson, the Pete Peterson Commission, maybe make that a serious bipartisan effort. It is bipartisan, but have ways that both parties come together. And I think if the Republicans do make some gains, there's a potential for a lot of bipartisan agreements. I hope they don't make gains, but if they are, perhaps on free trade agreements, on efforts to create jobs...

SPITZER: Those things are hugely important. Just to kind of put a final footnote on the Social Security, when you talk about stabilizing the rate of growth, there really seem two ways to do that One is to bring the retirement age more into line with what demographics are in terms of life and work expectancy or the inflation adjustment which can be calibrated. Are those things that you think we can or should do?

RICHARDSON: Well we should -- yeah, we should take a look at them. I'm not saying do both or do one. I'm saying that most importantly, Governor, you got to have a bipartisan agreement. If you're just going to demagogue these issue, it's not going to work.

SPITZER: One of your portfolios over the year, you were the ambassador to the United Nations, so you have a world view that many folks just don't -- haven't had the capacity to develop. Afghanistan, you mentioned it in terms of controlling the budget, it just seems to be one horror story after another. Now we're hearing that President Karzai was literally taking bags and boxes of money from Iran. What are we doing there? Why are American troops, American soldiers, our brothers and sisters dying over there for a guy who's taking bags of money from the Iranian leader? Explain why we're there, if you can.

RICHARDSON: Well, we're there to protect Americans from al Qaeda, from terrorism. The roots are right there in Pakistan and Afghanistan with the Taliban.

SPITZER: I'm not as expert in this as you, but everything I hear from people who are extremely knowledgeable is that the number of al Qaeda in Afghanistan may be fewer than 50 and the Taliban is a very different entity, perhaps. In fact, we're even negotiating with them. So, I'm having a hard time understanding whether this deployment strategy is the right one or whether -- and I'd love your view on this -- whether maybe Joe Biden's view, that it should have been a more cloak and dagger black hawks drones attack right at the heart of al Qaeda rather than 100 plus thousand more troops might have been a smarter approach.

RICHARDSON: Well, too, and you also have to add the fact that President Karzai is currently doing things that are not consistent with our goals there and that is a problem.

SPITZER: And that was very diplomatically stated, I should say.

RICHARDSON: Yeah. No, that's true. So look, we have to reassess this. But there is -- Osama bin Laden is there, we need to go after his elements. The Taliban is dangerous. We do have terrorist operations in both countries, in Pakistan and Afghanistan. It does affect our security. My point is that we need to make sure that we have a consistent national security strategy that recognizes the importance of an exit strategy if things are not working. We just have to stick to that.

SPITZER: Right. Since you said you were in Nevada just the other day helping out Senator Reid, I'm going to ask you a betting question. What's the betting line right now on the number of senators that go to either party and then what the margin will be in the House of Representatives on Tuesday?

RICHARDSON: Well, my view is that we will keep the United States Senate, we the Democrats, will keep our majority there, whether we'll have the 60-proof filibuster is probably questionable. But I think that Senator Reid will pull it out. I think that we will win Colorado. I'm talking about the seats that I know about. I think we have a very good chance of retaining some seats in the Midwest.

My concern is governorships because, you know, you and I know that governors are in charge of creating jobs and redistricting and realignments of congressional districts. Right now there are 26 governors that are Democrat, 24 that are Republican. We could lose that edge. I don't believe so. I think we'll win my seat in New Mexico. It will be a tough race, but I think we will keep that. We will win New York. Pretty -- that's not a prediction.

SPITZER: That one's easy, I think.

RICHARDSON: That was easy. But I just believe that the election, even though it won't be probably a great day for Democrats, that this is going to enhance President Obama's opportunities to work in a bipartisan way that will lead to his re-election.

SPITZER: Thank you so much for joining us.

RICHARDSON: Thank you.

PARKER: Governor Bill Richardson, thank you so much for being with us. I now know how to make Eliot be nice. Invite a Democrat on.

(LAUGHTER)

RICHARDSON: Thank you, Kathleen.

SPITZER: Coming up next, some real northern exposure for actress, Janine Turner. We'll tell you what she's doing up in Alaska.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JANINE TURNER, ACTRESS: There are a lot of conservatives in Hollywood, but they're afraid to speak out because when they do they get blacklisted, they don't get to actually -- they're worried about losing their jobs and I think that that's very un-American and it certainly defies our first amendment rights and I think that America is like an eagle. It takes a left wing and a right wing to fly...

(END VIDEO CLIP)

Now for tonight's "Person of Interest." Janine Turner starred for six seasons on TV series, "Northern Exposure," playing the politically-minded pilot in Sicily, Alaska. Remember this? Let's take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TURNER: First, read the literature, then listen to the speeches, but you know, eventually you have to go with your gut.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My gut?

TURNER: Yeah. Look each candidate in the eye, you know? And try to figure out which one is least likely to become an unprincipled sleaze bucket.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PARKER: Now she's in Alaska for real co-hosting today's Tea Party rally with Sarah Palin.

Thank you so much for join us. I was shocked to hear this is your first time actually in Alaska.

TUNER: I know. I'm shocked, too, and I'm thrilled to be here. It is so exciting. After five years of filming "Northern Exposure" and playing an Alaskan bush pilot, exciting to be in Alaska. As a matter of fact, this is my parka from 15 years ago. I brought it, just because.

SPITZER: Can I just chime in here. I was a huge fan of the show.

TUNER: Oh, thank you. I was, too, you know? It's still my favorite role.

PARKER: Just tell us what you're going to attend tonight.

TUNER: OK. Tonight I'm attending a rally for Joe Miller and with Sarah Palin. I'm very excited about it. I'm a Texan and of course, we love Texas, but I have a great affinity for the state of Alaska and I think Joe Miller is an awesome, awesome candidate, so I'm here the support him.

PARKER: So Janine, what's it like being a Hollywood actress and a Republican activist. Is that hard?

TUNER: Yes. It's hard. It's very hard. Very few of us actually speak out. I think it's maybe Jon Voight and me. That's about it. And there are a lot of -- there are a lot of conservatives in Hollywood, but they're afraid to speak out because when they do, they get blacklisted, they don't get to actually -- they're worried about losing their jobs and I think that that's very un-American and it certainly defies our first amendment rights and I think that America is like an eagle, it takes a left wing and a right wing to fly and we should all come together and work together and not be afraid, as Americans, to voice our political opinion, because that's what America's all about.

PARKER: But now, you supported Sarah Palin back when she was John McCain's running mate. Would you like to see her run for president?

TUNER: Yes, I would. I think that first we need to get through Tuesday and get the House and the Senate back if we can, and then we'll talk about presidential election. But I have to say that I have always been a fan and supported Sarah Palin because I believe -- and if I'm in Alaska, permit me to say this, she's like the aurora borealis. You know, I think she's a light and I think she's electric and I think she's brilliant. And she's not afraid to speak her mind. She's not afraid to be -- she doesn't want to be politically correct and I think that's very refreshing in this day and age because I think political correctness is actually killing our country.

SPITZER: Janine, I got to say, I love your use of metaphor. I never heard that you need a left wing and a right wing to fly. I'm going to use that one in the future. I'll attribute it to you the first time. I also am struck...

TUNER: Actually, I have to say, I heard that from somebody else, so I can't take credit for that quote. I don't know who said it, but...

SPITZER: We'll figure that one out. I'm also struck -- you said you reading, I gather, the Federalist Papers and they are a magnificent piece of work and you have created a Web site about the Constitution and one of the things I note about your politics is you keep coming back to the 10 amendment and states rights and this notion of federalism. What is it that you think the federal government is doing now that it should not do based upon your reading of the Constitution?

TUNER: Well, I'm not here in the state of Alaska for constituting America. You know, that's a 501-C-3, but since you brought it up, I do have -- I have founded a -- Constituting America which is a foundation to support, in a nonpartisan way, the effort to really make sure our citizens and our students understand the Constitution.

And so I -- we had a wonderful forum on our Web site where we talked about that we wrote essays and had scholars come in for 90 days to read the Constitution and the 85 Federalist Papers. And I learned so much. I mean, I learned that Publius really, really believed in the genius of the people. And over and over again they would say something. And it's amazing how relevant, relevant the Constitution and the Federalist Papers are today. And another thing they said was government will never get too big because of the sovereignty of the states, they'll step up, you know, the people will step up, the genius of people will never let this happen. And I feel that, you know, they're very clear in our Constitution that there are boundaries for the government and they never, never intended it to be this big.

SPITZER: Having been a state elected official for a fair number of years, I certainly agree with that notion that states have a lot of power reserved to them. Is there something specific so that people can understand when you're there on behalf of Joe Miller or anybody else, what is it -- I'm trying to get a more clear picture, what specifically do you thing the federal government is doing now that the 10 amendment does not permit it to do?

TUNER: Well, OK, I'll put my Janine Turner citizen hat back on and take the foundation hat off and I will just say that I think that the biggest example, of course, is health care. I mean, health care should be left to the states. Of course, you know, we want everyone in America to have health care. It's very important. And everybody deserves it. I and my family we've all gone through times, I mean, even as an actress, am I going to have health care. If I don't work a certain amount in front of the camera, I don't get my insurance. So yes, it needs to be dealt with. And of course, there's corruption in all areas. But I believe firmly it should be left to the state. It's not the government's right to take off.

SPITZER: So, just so I understand, in the Medicare system, when you say, "health care should be left to the state," Medicare, which is a lot of people depend upon, are you saying, which is a federal program, are you saying Medicare should not exist or it somehow violates the Constitution?

TUNER: Well, you know, I am not a scholar in these areas, but that's questionable. I think that it's tough. It's tough. It's a tough situation. And that's kind of done. There's not much I can do about that right now, but I do think with health care we're in such debt right now in this country, we're like a train running off the cliff. And we cannot sustain this continued spending. And I think all this debt, all of the way that we're trying to salvage corporations and -- it's just not what the government's intended to do. You know, it says in the preamble that they will provide, you know, that the government should provide for the common defense, for -- promote the general welfare. Never does it say in the Constitution that we are supposed to provide the general welfare for the people.

PARKER: Janine, I understand how you felt when Eliot asked you about the health care versus Medicare. I mean, basically, though, the new health care reform bill is national, it's over every single individual in the country versus Medicare which is a smaller percentage of the population, so no worries.

Let me ask you this, I want to get back to Hollywood for just a minute, because this is more interesting to me.

TUNER: I'm an actress!

PARKER: I hear you. I hear you.

TUNER: I'm an actress just trying to make a little bit of a difference. I don't know all the answers to everything.

PARKER: I know that. I know it and good for you. I mean, I think that's wonderful that you're doing this, because it does take a lot of courage to step out in front, and especially when you are from Hollywood. And I wondered if you'd like to give us an example. I've talked to other folks. I know Jon Voight and I have talked to some of the Friends of Abe, which is an organization of conservatives in Hollywood who kind of get together off of the radar so that they can talk to each other. But has there ever been a specific instance that you could -- would be willing to share with us about how that actually -- how you actually feel discriminated against or how that -- has it ever happened, specifically?

TUNER: Yeah. You know, I believe it has, but there's no way to substantiate my particular example, so I hate to bring it up.

PARKER: Not for you individually, yet. Emphasis on, "yet."

TUNER: Well, it has -- yet, no, I feel I wasn't called back for a job because of it. And I think that -- look, there's just sort of this double standard where if you don't kind of go with the flow and with the way that that whole liberal slant in Hollywood, that you're sort of an outcast. And I always have been. My father was a West Point military graduate, I've always believed in a strong military. I've always been a conservative in my values. I just always been a little bit of an outcast. You know, you're not invited to the hip parties. And I personally think it's little tougher to get work. It just always has been.

But, you know, once again, there are people out there that can see beyond that. I got "Northern Exposure" and a lot of great work in my life. So, you know, I hate to stereotype.

PARKER: OK, well, Janine Turner, are you going to run for public office some time?

TUNER: Oh, my gosh. My daughter wants to. She's 12. I don't know about that. It's pretty grueling. I'd have to really have, a tough, tough, tough skin.

PARKER: Janine Turner, thank you so much for joining us from Alaska.

TUNER: All right. Thank you. Bye-bye.

SPITZER: We'll be right back. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PARKER: How do we attract good teachers to teaching?

MICHELLE RHEE, CHANCELLOR, D.C. PUBLIC SCHOOLS: You know what, we have to make it a profession that high achievers want to go into and high achievers don't want to go into a profession that any old body can go into, right? And when they are in the profession, they want to be recognized and rewarded when they do great work.

Right now, in teaching, for the most part, you know, it doesn't matter if you're moving kids three grade levels in one year or you're moving them backwards.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SPITZER: Now for tonight's "Best Idea," extreme school makeovers. The United States, once the world leader in secondary school education now ranks 18th among 36 developed nations.

PARKER: D.C. Chancellor Michelle Rhee has been hailed as a heroine for education reform. He tough as nails approach is showcased in the newly released film "Waiting for Superman." Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RHEE: You wake up every morning and you know that 46,000 kids are counting on you, and that most of them are getting a really crappy education right now.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So you think that most of the kids in D.C. are getting a crappy education, right now?

RHEE: Oh, I don't think they are. I know they are.

There's a complete and utter lack of accountability for the job that we're supposed to be doing, which is producing results for kids.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PARKER: An amazing film. Michelle Rhee is with us tonight.

Thank you so much, Michelle, for being here.

RHEE: Thanks for having me.

PARKER: You have said that over the course of your tenure as chancellor, you fired more than a thousand educators, including teachers and principals.

RHEE: Correct.

PARKER: What real yield did you get from those firings in the educational system across the board? RHEE: Well, I think the research is very clear that the single factor that has the most impact in schools on a kid's academic achievement level is the quality of teacher that they have in front of them every single day. So, part of what we wanted to do is prioritize, making sure that we had a great educator in every single classroom.

SPITZER: How do you measure the quality of a teacher? How did you as the chancellor feel you could do that? Do you test? Do you do you subjective evaluations in the classroom? How did you determine who to fire?

RHEE: Well, its' not as difficult as people make it out to be. You know, what we did was we instituted a new evaluation system. And we knew we had to because when I came into office, eight percent of our eighth graders in the city were on grade level in mathematics. But if you look at the performance evaluations of the adults in the system at the same time, you would see that 95 percent of them were being rated as doing an excellent job.

SPITZER: By adults you mean the teachers and the educators.

RHEE: Right. That's right. So how can you run a system where all the adults are running around thinking oh, I'm doing good work for kids but what we're producing is eight percent success. So we knew we had to revamp the evaluation system so what we did was we created a model where 50 percent of the teacher's evaluation is based on test score gains. How much academically did they grow in a given year? And 40 percent is based on observations of their classroom practice. So we go in five different times during the year. We observe what they're doing, how much the kids are learning, et cetera. Five percent is based on how their school is doing overall, and then another five percent on the softer things like their contribution to the school community.

PARKER: Big picture, everybody in the country wants to know this. How do we attract good teachers to teaching?

RHEE: You know what? We have to make it a profession that high achievers want to go into. And high achievers don't want to go into a profession that any old body can kind of go into, right? And when they are in the profession, they want to be recognized and rewarded when they do great work.

Right now in teaching, for the most part, you know, it doesn't matter if you're moving kids three grade levels in one year or you're moving them backwards. You pretty much get paid the same amount. It's all based on how long you've been there, not on what you're producing in terms of results and it's not the kind of culture that people in general are excited about going into. But we've got to have some market forces at work here, right?

PARKER: Sure.

RHEE: Because if you're just going to pay everybody the same amount regardless of whether they're teaching PE or they're teaching physics, when the market is much different for physics teachers, then you're going to create a system where it doesn't really attract high performing people.

SPITZER: Now, Mayor Fenty who had brought you in as chancellor lost his re-election campaign.

RHEE: Yes.

SPITZER: And you were saying that you think this really was a referendum on the school system. So how does that bode for the future of school reform because I think many people look at what you did and say, of course, that is what we should be doing?

RHEE: That's a great question. And I got calls from reformers across the country the day after the election saying, holy crap, this means that, you know, no one's going to want to do what you guys did because they're going to be afraid that they're not going to be re- elected. And I think that is the most tragic message that people could take out of this election.

SPITZER: Right.

PARKER: So among the things you did right, what's the thing you think you did most right?

RHEE: I think our focus on human capital and our focus on teacher quality was the most important thing that we did. And we're about to have an event on Monday night at the Kennedy Center to celebrate the most highly effective teachers in the district. And people talk a lot about how many teachers we fired, but they don't talk about the fact that we're getting big bonus checks to the best teachers in the district.

And as I was talking to those teachers, a lot of them said, you know what, in three years you did more to raise the professionalism of the teachers in this district than, you know, what we've seen in 20 years prior to that. So I'm very proud of the fact that a lot of our best teachers really feel now that we value what they do.

SPITZER: Look, we have asked every guest on this program who is in government, critiquing government, the deficit that we are facing nationally is enormous. If you had to look at the federal budget and say here is where we should cut, where would you do it?

RHEE: Well, no one ever wants to cut in their own backyard, but I suppose within education, if I had to choose one thing, it would be -- we have about $3 billion that the federal government gives entitled to grants to states. And they are teacher quality grants. And you can pick amongst a list of things to spend the money on. And what most states choose to spend it on is class size reduction. But the research says that class size reduction doesn't actually have any impact. So that's three billion right there.

SPITZER: It's fascinating you say that. But I can tell you as a governor who actually put a fair bit of money -- more than a fair bit, an enormous amount of money into education, we did, in fact, support class size reduction. I'm not so sure I completely agree with you about whether or not it is effective. I agree with you teachers matter first and foremost as the most essential input. Class size at a certain point actually I think does matter a fair bit as well, just because you can't teach too many kids in one room. But anyway, look, I will --

(CROSSTALK)

RHEE: We can argue about that later.

SPITZER: We can cover that at some other point. But look, we thank you so much and wish you all the best.

RHEE: Thank you.

PARKER: Thank you very much for coming, Michelle. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SPITZER: Welcome to "Our Political Party," a conversation with the kind of smart, opinionated guests you'd want to sit next to at any good party. Let's meet our guest. Robert Zimmerman, a Democratic strategist, communications expert, member of the Democratic National Committee. You will be partisan, I hope. Roy Sekoff, who's a writer/producer, founding editor of the must read "Huffington Post."

ROY SEKOFF, EDITOR, "HUFFINGTON POST": Thank you, sir.

PARKER: And on my side of the table, Michael Maslansky who is a language messaging expert and author of "The Language of Trust: Selling Ideas in a World of Skeptics" and Kellyanne Conway, who is a Republican pollster and president of Woman Trend, a research firm tracking trends that influence women's lives.

Welcome, everyone. All right. Take a listen at this clip from last night with the president on "The Daily Show with Jon Stewart."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JON STEWART, HOST, "THE DAILY SHOW WITH JON STEWART": So you wouldn't agree when you say you'd run this time as a pragmatist. You would not, it wouldn't be yes, we can, given certain conditions --

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: No. No, I think what I would say is, yes, we can, but it is not --

(LAUGHTER)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PARKER: I love that, yes, we can but --

KELLYANNE CONWAY, REPUBLICAN POLLSTER: We haven't yet.

PARKER: We're going to fill in the blank. Yes, we can but -- CONWAY: We haven't yet. I think the president is we just saw the opening shot of his 2012 re-election campaign, Kathleen, where he's basically saying, yes, we can, but not in four years. We really need eight. And that's not what he promised. You know, he was very strict about timelines. He was going to get us out of Iraq in 16 months. He frankly won the Democratic primary by being the only one to stand up against his now Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, his now Vice President Joe Biden, saying I've been against Iraq --

SPITZER: But he's your boss, so it's OK.

CONWAY: For now. And he said the stimulus plan would create jobs, would reduce unemployment to a certain level by a certain time. We know that that hasn't happened. So he's a man who has set his own deadlines.

PARKER: Well, yes, we can, but, you know, Washington is a different story once you get there, right?

SEKOFF: Yes, I mean, I think to be fair, you know, we have a story on the "Huffington Post" today where we actually list 10 times during the campaign where he said exactly, yes, we can, but it's not going to be easy. And he says don't let naive idealism turn into bitter defeatism.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Both the president --

SEKOFF: Well, no, he said it's going to be a long hard slog. Washington is not going to be an easy place to change. I mean, the poster just didn't fit, yes, we can, but only if Mitch McConnell lets me. So I think that was the problem.

ROBERT ZIMMERMAN, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: This idea that we have to rely on Mitch McConnell to let the administration succeed is a failure in leadership by its premise. And to the administration's credit, they're not just relying upon the Republicans to let it happen.

I think what we have to realize is that people underestimate the intelligence and the sophistication of the American electorate. And I think people understand the crisis that was inherited is not going to be resolved in two years or even the first term. But there's no denying there's progress being made.

MICHAEL MASLANSKY, MESSAGING EXPERT: But if that's the case, then isn't the president underestimating our intelligence, too? I mean, he says that we're hard wired not to think clearly when we're scared because we don't agree with what his policies are.

SPITZER: Look, can I say something. He is frustrated. He agonizes over this, but he has done an amazing amount. You know, I have been as critical of their economic policies as anybody out there. But you know what? When he came into office, we were bleeding. The patient was on the floor about to die. And he has turned this around. We were losing 700,000 jobs a month. Now, we're in positive territory creating jobs. It's not perfect. It's not where it should be, but the policies worked. I think the defeatism of the negative party is what we've got to get rid of, tell the affirmative story. He's winning. And I just wish we'd say that --

(CROSSTALK)

CONWAY: He doesn't act like a winner, though.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right.

CONWAY: It actually turns out that this hopeful man who projected optimism and was seen as the more optimistic presidential candidate, which is always very helpful in presidential politics, he no longer is that person. He's a bit of a bully.

SPITZER: Oh, wait, wait.

ZIMMERMAN: More assertive. You're going to hear a talking point from Democrats --

CONWAY: He berates the voters.

ZIMMERMAN: No, he actually -- Democrats blame the communication shop. In fairness, his communication shop couldn't sell cocaine to Charlie Sheen.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh!

ZIMMERMAN: But I think the reality is -- but I think the reality is there's an important message there about what they're delivering. I think part of this administration going forward is to listen more to the American people's priorities and focus on jobs.

SPITZER: We're going to take a list -- there is a radio ad by the Faith and Freedom Coalition, political organization run by Ralph Reed. I want us to take a listen to this ad.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NARRATOR: It's us versus them. Big government versus a big belief in faith and freedom. Sharron Angle versus Harry Reid.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SPITZER: All right. There's a nice inclusive ad. All right. So around the table, you're one of them? Are you one of us? And who is them? I don't quite get this distinction, but tell me who's who.

PARKER: I think "them" is the dead people. What was that music?

SPITZER: You're right, it's a mortuary sound.

SEKOFF: Of the choices between those two, I'm neither of the above, you know.

SPITZER: All right.

SEKOFF: But I will say I give the truth in advertising award to that ad. I mean, we don't need any subtle racism. Right?

PARKER: Right.

SEKOFF: We go right for it. This is what they mean. I mean, it's --

CONWAY: What was that mean? Harry Reid and Sharron Angle?

SEKOFF: No, no, no, that's -- the subtle message is actually the gang members coming across the border in Sharron Angle's ad.

(CROSSTALK)

No, no, I know what I'm saying, but that's the ongoing message is versus them and they're being very --

CONWAY: The us versus them of that ad and the narrator was very clear where the us versus them was not illegal immigrants versus --

SEKOFF: It's all --

CONWAY: No, no, no. The us versus them are insiders versus outsiders.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's no substance. So why are you immediately mention them?

CONWAY: Excuse me, the man from Searchlight is no longer the man --

SEKOFF: Kellyanne, let's stop.

(CROSSTALK)

ZIMMERMAN: I think both parties play the us versus them game. You get the Wall Street versus Main Street. The us versus them, I'm standing with Joy Behar because she nailed it when she went after Sharron Angle for the xenophobia.

SPITZER: Yes.

ZIMMERMAN: For the racist type of campaign she has run and for, in fact, exploiting prejudice and bigotry. So I think there is a real choice we have to make whether we live in Nevada or not about where we stand in terms of ethics and standards in politics.

CONWAY: Let me complete my sentence. In the us versus them here as I see it, just on the larger narrative, not particularly this ad or this race, is that people want -- they want to elect outsiders. All of a sudden elective experience is not a great asset. It's a liability. And look at people like Harry Reid, 38 years, Patty Murray and Russ Feingold, two people in Washington were the consummate outsiders are now the insiders. MASLANSKY: First, I'll tell you that since high school nobody really wanted to be part of them. It's always about wanting to be part of us. As a piece of positioning and framing, it's fantastic. But I don't think that this is about insider versus outsider. This is about trying to talk about we're the people that support God and freedom, and if you're not with us, then you're against us.

I mean, it is kind of very crass. I think if the campaign is about riling up the base, it's extremely effective. If they're trying to pull swing voters in with this kind of ad, it would hurt them.

CONWAY: Harry Reid is a religious man. He's a Mormon who has sometimes voted pro-life even on a rating involved in that race because they're both pro-Second Amendment. I don't think that he is the typical.

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You're basically saying you don't believe in the same God.

ZIMMERMAN: That's government versus God.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.

ZIMMERMAN: And that is the way the ad was framed.

PARKER: That's a dog whistle that's got long standing in the political arena. As always, it's always about us being we're the real Americans, them, you know who they are.

SEKOFF: That's exactly what Sarah Palin used in 2008, the real Americans. That's what they said.

I'm always them.

You know, it's not so bad, to tell you the truth.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm sort of them.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's OK.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right.

CONWAY: I think this is when Sharron met Harry and Harry's out of touch.

SPITZER: All right.

PARKER: OK.

SPITZER: Look, we want to take a quick break. WE want to hear from you. Go to our blog, CNN.com/parkerspitzer. Follow us on Facebook and Twitter. We'll be right back with another question for our political party.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PARKER: Welcome back to the "Political Party." We're going to take one more quick whip around the table.

Press secretary, White House Press Secretary Robert Gibbs said he's going to take his first question by Twitter. So in 140 characters or less, what would you ask the president?

ZIMMERMAN: I'm a Democrat. I don't do anything under 140 characters. I'll tell you, I would ask the president if you're opposed to "Don't Ask, Don't Tell," why do you still have the Department of Justice enforce it. Just issue an executive order and end it.

SPITZER: I'm with you.

PARKER: All right. You're up to your limit.

SPITZER: But he's right, he is right. He's right. He's right. I'm glad you said it.

SEKOFF: I think I'm going to go the Demi Moore route and just take a picture of the foreclosure crisis in a bikini and send that to him.

PARKER: That's good.

SEKOFF: Yes. I go for the visual.

PARKER: I don't know what that looks like.

SEKOFF: Yes. It's interesting.

PARKER: OK.

SEKOFF: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I guess I'm Ashton Kutcher.

(LAUGHTER)

MASLANSKY: Say dude, what happened to hope and change?

CONWAY: I had dude in mind, too. Where's my job, dude. Yours truly, one-time Obama voter.

PARKER: You voted for Obama?

CONWAY: No, I didn't.

SPITZER: Since you raised the dude stuff, is it right to call the president that?

CONWAY: On "The Daily Show"?

SPITZER: Anywhere. CONWAY: When you're trying to appeal to young people, I personally think no. I actually -- I worry about the lack of dignity that is accorded to certain offices in our country now. I really do. I mean, even --

ZIMMERMAN: The bigger issue, the way we're communicating and the forums we communicate with are really, in fact, revolutionizing how we look at public officials, the accessibility of public official. And I think sometimes it harms a public official's credibility to be doing every media opportunity that comes along. It may be good for Ryan Seacrest. It may not be good for the president.

SEKOFF: But I think like somebody like Sarah Palin is using the new media. She's just going right around the "New York Times." She's going right to her base. She's tweeting, she's posting on Facebook, and she's revolutionizing I think a way that you can go right to your base.

CONWAY: So do you think she should be called governor or a caribou Barbie?

SEKOFF: I think she should be called half governor --

CONWAY: Half governor?

SEKOFF: -- since she walked away.

SPITZER: In the "New York Times" she's going (INAUDIBLE). And that shouldn't be permitted.

SEKOFF: Well, we let her get around with it.

PARKER: All right.

Well, we have our thoughts on this on P.S. And I hate to be so familiar, but Robert, Roy, Michael and Kellyanne, thank you so much for joining us. And I'll just call you sir if you call me Mrs. Parker.

SPITZER: Miss Parker. Miss Parker.

PARKER: Ms. Parker.

Thank you so much for being with us. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

JOE JOHNS, CNN SENIOR CORRESPONDENT: I'm Joe Johns. More of "PARKER SPITZER" in a moment. First, the latest.

Oil giant BP and contractor Halliburton knew about potential flaws in the cement they planned to use to seal the BP oil well weeks before the Deepwater Horizon exploded and used it anyway. That's according to the lead investigator for the commission looking into the gulf oil disaster. The Anna Nicole Smith drug trial is over. A jury found Howard K. Stern, Nicole's Smith's boyfriend and lawyer, and one of her doctors guilty on charges of conspiring to provide drugs using false names. A second doctor was acquitted on all counts.

There's growing outrage over the school official in Arkansas who made anti-gay comments on his Facebook page. Clint McCance set off a firestorm with his rant and many are asking why hasn't he resigned. Tonight on "360," Ellen DeGeneres and others weigh in.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR, "AC 360": When you heard what this guy had said, what did you think?

ELLEN DEGENERES, TALK SHOW HOST/COMEDIAN: The fact that he has not stepped down or has been forced to step down is amazing to me. And I'm hoping there's going to be a lot of really smart, courageous people not just in that area where he is but everywhere that will say this is unacceptable.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JOHNS: That's the latest. "PARKER SPITZER" is back after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SPITZER: Welcome back. You know, President Obama making all sorts of history these days, most recently by going on Jon Stewart's show. Nobody had ever done that, no sitting president. And he made quite an appearance. And Jon Stewart called him the dude, something that had never happened before.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: And in fairness, Larry Summers did a heck of a job trying to figure out how to --

JON STEWART, HOST, "THE DAILY SHOW WITH JON STEWART": You don't want to use that phrase, dude.

(LAUGHTER)

OBAMA: I was -- pun intended.

STEWART: All right.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PARKER: Gosh, Eliot. There are so many funny lines there, I don't know where to start.

First of all, I can't believe the president said heck of a job. Nobody says that. And also, I mean, what do we talk about -- dude? He's calling the president dude? SPITZER: Do I remember President Bush calling Brownie heck of a job right before he got axed for completely failing to clean up Katrina. I mean, that's like the kiss of death when the president says that, right?

PARKER: Heck of a job translation means you screwed up big time.

SPITZER: You're fired.

PARKER: You're fired, bye-bye.

SPITZER: Not good.

PARKER: I'm sorry, I know this is very uncool, but I don't think we should call the president dude. I think that's so like uncool.

SPITZER: Oh, my goodness. Oh, my goodness, the new Kathleen is coming out. But you know what, I'm with you.

PARKER: And by the way, do you think it was a pun intended.

SPITZER: No.

PARKER: I don't either.

SPITZER: I think this is one of those things that slipped out. Oh, oh, shouldn't have said that. But you know what, I'm with you. He's the pres. You don't call the pres "dude." It just doesn't happen. He is the president.

PARKER: OK. We call him pres, Pres Obama.

SPITZER: There you go.

PARKER: I'm glad we agree on that much, Eliot. We want to know what you think. So please do log in to CNN.com/parkerspitzer and let us know.

Thanks so much for being with us. Be sure to join us tomorrow night.

SPITZER: Good night from New York.

"LARRY KING LIVE" starts right now.