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Nancy Grace
Police Identify Zahra`s Remains
Aired November 12, 2010 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is with great regret I stand before you today. I`ve been dreading this moment early on in this investigation. As investigators, we are trained to follow the leads, but never give up the hope the evidence may take us in the wrong direction and the outcome will be different.
We have recovered enough physical evidence to believe we have found Zahra. Please understand that I cannot get into many specifics about the investigation, but the DNA evidence from the bone found on Christie Road matched a sample, a DNA sample, from the house on 21st Avenue Northwest. The sample from the home was taken from personal items believed to be Zahra`s. A known DNA profile of Zahra will be created from cheek swabs from her biological mother and father. The swabs will be sent to North Carolina State Bureau of Investigation lab to create that profile.
Remains found at Dudley Shoals Road in Caldwell County have been sent to North Carolina medical examiner`s office and then to the State Bureau of Investigation lab for positive identification. According to medical examiner staff on site when the remains were recovered, they are consistent with a child. Until that test is complete, we cannot officially confirm they are Zahra`s. The timetable for those results are not available at this time.
This is still a developing case and we are gathering all facts we feel exist. We understand the concern and interest in this case by the public, but we must be cautious in releasing further information so it will not jeopardize future court proceedings. The release of any information from this point on will be very limited.
Investigators, agents and officers and staff who have worked on this case are devastated they were not able to find Zahra alive and bring her home safely. We appreciate the support we receive from the public. Today, our community mourns, our state mourns, our nation mourns, and the world mourns as we go forward. Thank you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JEAN CASAREZ, GUEST HOST: Zahra Baker is dead, hickory, North Carolina, police making the grim announcement just moments ago, confirming they have found enough evidence to lead them to believe they have found 10- year-old Zahra Baker.
Good evening. I`m Jean Casarez of "In Session" on the truTV network, in for Nancy Grace tonight. Thank you so much for joining us. Let us go straight out to Alexis Weed, Nancy Grace producer, live at the remains site in North Carolina tonight, Granite Falls, with more on this breaking news. Alexis, the latest?
ALEXIS WEED, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Right, Jean. Today, as you just heard during that press conference that happened just this afternoon, the discovery -- police say that Zahra Baker`s remains were found. Now, Jean, I am standing at one of the locations where police talked about today in that conference, where there was an excavation on Wednesday. There was a lot of speculation yesterday that these were, in fact, Zahra Baker`s remains.
Today, police are saying that they had a medical examiner on staff on Wednesday when those remains were discovered and that medical examiner has said that the remains are consistent with that of a child. Not only that, Jean, but the bone that was found last week, November 3rd -- the bone was tested and matched, they`re saying, to Zahra Baker`s DNA profile.
CASAREZ: Alexis, do we have any idea what remains were exactly found at that Dudley Shoals Road area?
WEED: We don`t, Jean. Police were just calling them today, as you heard, remains. They did not get into specifics. But they did say that they took some DNA sample that was taken at Zahra Baker`s home, and that is one of the ways they`re trying to make the match. They`re also sending these remains off to the state investigation laboratory for further analysis to make a final confirmation.
CASAREZ: I want to go right now to Australian senior reporter Robert Ovadia. He is the senior reporter for 7 Network Australia. He has accompanied Zahra Baker`s biological mother to North Carolina, where she is right now. First of all, Robert Ovadia, thank you so much for joining us tonight. When did Emily Dietrich, Zahra`s biological mother, find out about these remains?
ROBERT OVADIA, 7 NETWORK AUSTRALIA (via telephone): Jean, good evening. Emily found out about an hour or so before the rest of the world did. She was taken inside the Hickory police station. She was met by a couple of investigators that she has been speaking to continuously over the past three or four weeks, every couple of days. And she said it`s been a privilege to actually meet them face to face.
But the news they had for her today obviously was not good. It was some relief, I guess. At least she has answers. But one of those investigators, in breaking the news that they had actually found Zahra Baker and they believed her to be dead -- he was blubbering like a baby, from what I understand. These guys, these hardened men, have taken this very personally. And that is probably the toughest job of any police officer, to have to break that to a mother.
Subsequently, officer after officer and detective and agents and staff at the police station interrupted the police telling Emily this, just to offer their condolences. They have really taken this to heart. They are protecting her as well as you could expect. And Emily tonight is a very shattered woman.
CASAREZ: Robert, tell us about Zahra`s biological mother giving a buccal swab of DNA to North Carolina authorities.
OVADIA: That is essentially, Jean, to expedite everything. From what I understand, there is an initial swab that was taken that was further away from Hickory. They wanted to -- what they want to do is they want to expedite the proceedings to absolutely confirm 100 percent. At the moment, it`s 99.9 percent that this is Zahra.
The reason for the uncertainty is that police here in Hickory have matched the DNA to that bone found a couple of weeks ago. They have matched that to items believed to be Zahra`s inside the family home. For them to be 100 percent certain, they need to match the remains found specifically to Emily Dietrich or the biological father, Adam Baker. And with that, it will give them absolute certainty that this is Zahra.
CASAREZ: Robert, do you know where the remains were found on Wednesday? Were they found inside that 30-foot wide, 2-and-a-half-foot deep hole in the earth that investigators dug?
OVADIA: I don`t know. And I have to confess, I don`t know specifically where. But I`m speaking mostly with Emily, and those are the sorts of details that she will find out as time progresses. At the moment, the important thing for her is that her daughter has been found. She hasn`t shared with me the circumstances in which she was found.
CASAREZ: All right. We are taking your calls live tonight. One more question, Robert. Was Emily Dietrich told what remains were found on Wednesday, what parts of little Zahra Baker`s body?
OVADIA: No, she wasn`t. And if she was, she certainly hasn`t told me. So perhaps that is something that she would personally like to keep to herself. She has certainly heard the stipulations, she has heard stipulation of dismemberment, that there was a report earlier on the evening news that there were cuff marks found on one of the bones. So that is probably a likely theory.
She`s also heard that Zahra`s head was found as part of these remains, which is grueling for her to have to watch. Whether she has been told specifically by investigators, I don`t know.
CASAREZ: This precious, precious little girl, that was deaf and only had one leg in life, so many turmoils.
I want to go to John Miller, editor of "The Hickory Daily Record" standing by live with Alexis Weed at Granite Falls, the remains site. John, what are your sources telling you tonight?
JOHN MILLER, "HICKORY DAILY RECORD": Well, our sources are telling us that, as the police chief said today, there will be a number of days before they get confirmation of what the remains were that they found Wednesday here, off of Dudley Shoals Road. We also found out that even as we are speaking, there`s a gathering crowd and memorial back at the home in Hickory, where people are gathering and with their condolences and trying to make some sense of this tragedy.
CASAREZ: Do we know when this autopsy will begin and be performed?
MILLER: Well, we don`t know if it`s an autopsy or not. We just know that they`re trying to evaluate the evidence. And normally, what we are told, it takes between seven and ten days. We know that they`ve asked to expedite the process. But the chief today did not commit on when that information will be back to the police here in Hickory.
CASAREZ: To Dr. Michael Arnall, board-certified forensic pathologist, coming to us from Denver, Colorado. I have so many questions for you tonight. First of all, you have performed many, many autopsies. Autopsies are performed on remains. How do you do it?
DR. MICHAEL ARNALL, FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST: In a case like this, there`s probably going to be three types of doctors looking at the remains. One is going to be a traditional forensic pathologist like myself. They`re probably going to bring in a forensic anthropologist to look at the bones, as well. And likely, there will be a forensic odontologist or a dentist to look at the teeth, if they get those teeth. They`re going to be looking for cut marks, as you`ve already discussed, as well as any evidence of injuries that may have occurred to the bones that are healing that might signal that there was child abuse prior to the death.
CASAREZ: And I want to ask you about cause of death. We know through Cindy Anthony that when you find remains -- and this is Caylee Anthony I`m talking about -- many times, you cannot determine the cause of death. Blunt force trauma to the bones -- that would be fairly easy. Is there anything else that you can find toward cause of death from remains found in the earth?
ARNALL: Well, as you saw in other case, there may be additional evidence, like ligatures or tape around the head that might assist you in determining what might have caused death.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
EMILY DIETRICH, ZAHRA`S MOTHER: I hope they find you sooner or later.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`ve been dreading this moment.
DIETRICH: I`m sorry that you had to have a bad life.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We would hear noises up in the attic.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "I sure miss my warm waterbed."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think she was sleeping up there on a piece of sheetrock laid out across the rafters.
DIETRICH: Your stepmom should have not made you walk up a hill.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There was a bruise under her eye.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "I`m climbing the walls, literally."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: History of cruelty.
DIETRICH: (INAUDIBLE) in heaven.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police have, in fact, found remains belonging to Zahra Baker.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Investigators, agents and officers and staff who have worked on this case are devastated they were not able to find Zahra alive and bring her home safely.
DIETRICH: Please have a safe journey up there.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CASAREZ: I`m Jean Casarez of "In Session," in for Nancy Grace tonight. Zahra Baker is dead, Hickory police confirming the remains they have found leads them to believe they are those of Zahra Baker -- investigators, police so emotional, wanting to find Zahra Baker alive, not believing that the remains they have found of a small child are those that are those of Zahra Baker. A bone found last week, confirmed today it`s the DNA of Zahra Baker.
I want to go out to a very exclusive guest we have tonight joining us. It is Carrie Fairchild. She is the sister of Elisa Baker, joining us from North Carolina tonight exclusively. First of all, Carrie Fairchild, I want to ask you, what is the family`s reaction?
CARRIE FAIRCHILD, STEPMOTHER`S SISTER (via telephone): Well, I guess most of the family`s reaction is we`re just -- we`re heart-broken and dealing with probably a lot of anger, too.
CASAREZ: And what is that anger directed to or toward?
FAIRCHILD: Probably just everyone, the whole -- just the whole situation. Still don`t know a lot of details of, you know, exactly how it come to be, and just hoping that they find all the evidence that they need. And I just hope that they find everyone that was guilty that was involved in this situation.
CASAREZ: Carrie Fairchild, exclusively with us tonight, when was Adam Baker told about the remains found on Wednesday of his daughter?
FAIRCHILD: I don`t know. I think today. I`m not sure. I don`t know. I haven`t spoken to him.
CASAREZ: Do you know at all if Elisa Baker has been told of this discovery?
FAIRCHILD: I don`t know that, either. Haven`t been in contact with her.
CASAREZ: Do you believe, Carrie, that your sister is responsible even in part for the murder of Zahra Baker?
FAIRCHILD: Yes, I believe she`s involved. How far, how much, I don`t know. But I do not think she was in it alone. I just -- I just don`t think so.
CASAREZ: You know, Nancy said something last night that was so brilliant, as Nancy always is, saying that Elisa Baker couldn`t have dug a hole to bury that little girl that far down, if that`s where the remains were found. Do you agree with that, that your sister may be capable of certain things, but the physical labor involved to put a body down that deep?
FAIRCHILD: Probably. I would say that would sound about right.
CASAREZ: Your sister lived in this area, right? When did she live in this Dudley Shoals Road area?
FAIRCHILD: Oh, goodness. It`s been probably about four years ago or something. She`s lived in so many places, it`s hard to keep track of where and when.
CASAREZ: You know, Carrie, you are not responsible for this, and we appreciate very much at this time you coming on. Is there anything that you want to express about the news today that Zahra Baker is dead, remains have been found consistent with that of this little baby girl, so young, Zahra Baker?
FAIRCHILD: I`m just -- I guess it`s just good that everyone has prayed for her and kept hoping for the best, and just that she`s made her way into everyone`s hearts. She was a special girl, and she will definitely be missed.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DIETRICH: Zahra, I`m so sorry that your stepmother -- that your stepmother hit you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "We really didn`t kill her."
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Breaking news for you right now in the Zahra Baker case.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "But what he did after the fact is kinda horrifying."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have recovered enough physical evidence to believe we have found Zahra.
DIETRICH: He had no right!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You ought to be in jail! You ought to be hung!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "Zahra isn`t missing."
DIETRICH: I have no words for that woman.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is with great regret that we`re not able to find Zahra alive.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Human remains have been found.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Presumed murdered.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In the search for the 10-year-old North Carolina girl.
DIETRICH: Unless you understand the story, you don`t understand the pain.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CASAREZ: North Carolina authorities reporting tonight through their tears that Zahra Baker is dead. Remains that were found on Wednesday confirmed by a medical examiner to be that of a small child they believe are those of 10-year-old Zahra Baker.
I want to go out to senior reporter for 7 Network Australia, Robert Ovadia, who is in North Carolina tonight, joining us from Hickory, there with Zahra`s biological mother. You know, Robert, I thought a lot about this, and in our country, there are so many mothers and so many fathers that lose their children from one -- the spouse kidnapping them and taking them, and they cannot find them, even if they go to law enforcement. I do not judge Emily Dietrich at all. I see the emotion. I see it in her heart.
When was the last time that she ever saw Zahra?
OVADIA: From my understanding, it was about eight years ago, Jean, which is a very, very long time. This started when Emily had post-partum depression. She passed Zahra on to Adam Baker when Zahra was about 9 months old. He hung around for a couple months, then one day he just took off. Emily turned up to see her daughter, and there was nothing there. The entire house was bare.
It`s taken her a good year or so, from my understanding, to then track him down and track Zahra down again. She was granted the right to see him, as had been decreed by the court. But then not long after that, he took off again. This happened over the space of a number of years. And she first realized that Zahra had been taken out of the country and to the United States only three days before she was reported missing, Jean.
CASAREZ: And what is next for Emily Dietrich? Is she going to be staying in North Carolina? What will she be doing?
OVADIA: Yes. Her initial intention was to wait for the DNA swabs to come back positive. I think that has all but happened now, and that that reality that this is Zahra has definitely sunk in, or is certainly sinking in with her.
There is a candlelight vigil for Zahra that is planned for Tuesday night. Emily tells me she doesn`t know whether she`s going to go to that, probably not. But this entire process is overwhelming for her. This is not just...
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHIEF TOM ATKINS, HICKORY POLICE: It is with great regret I stand before you today. I`ve been dreading this moment early on in this investigation.
EMILY DIETRICH, ZAHRA BAKER`S MOTHER: She was already gone when I found her.
ATKINS: We have recovered enough physical evidence to believe we have found Zahra.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The murder --
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Crime scene --
DR. JOSHUA PERPER, MEDICAL EXAMINER, AUTHOR OF "WHEN TO CALL THE DOCTOR": Murder --
NANCY GRACE, HOST: She`s dead. Zahra, dead.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Dead.
PERPER: The child is dead.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Dead.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Dead.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Zahra is dead.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "Everyone wants me dead."
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Their search for the body of a 10-year-old girl.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Human remains.
ATKINS: Today, our community mourns, our state mourns, our nation mourns and the world mourns.
DIETRICH: You`re probably in heaven with the angels and God. Surely God is taking great care of you.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
JEAN CASAREZ, LEGAL CORRESPONDENT, "IN SESSION": I`m Jean Casarez of "In Session" on the truTV network, in for Nancy Grace tonight.
Zahra Baker is dead. It was confirmed today that a bone that was found last week being tested for DNA has confirmed it is to be the DNA of Zahra Baker. And remains found at the site on Wednesday confirmed by the medical examiner to be those of a small child.
I want to go out to Alexis Weed, NANCY GRACE producer. You are standing by live at that remains site in North Carolina -- Granite Falls, North Carolina.
Breaking news. What`s the latest?
ALEXIS WEED, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Jean, as you said, today we learned just this afternoon, police have said that that remains found just at the site not too far from where I`m standing right now -- remains that were taken as part of an excavation on Wednesday and analyzed. The remains are said by police today that they believe they are those of Zahra Baker.
Also, Jean, a bone found in a separate location about five miles away from here, that bone is said to have a DNA match to the profile for Zahra`s DNA.
CASAREZ: All right. To our callers. Thank you so much for being patient tonight. We have had so much information we want to get out.
First to Marcia in Pennsylvania. Hi, Marcia.
MARCIA, CALLER FROM PENNSYLVANIA: Hey, Jean, thank you for taking my call. First off, I just want to say I don`t know how you guys are covering this case are holding up right now. I`m following it on -- and I know that for me and everyone else on there, it`s been one emotional roller coaster for all of us.
My question. It`s for the psychologist on the show. How can someone dismember a child`s body and then walk around acting completely normal and not traumatized? Because I know for everybody else, it`s just knowing the facts is just -- you know what I mean?
CASAREZ: I understand. And let`s go to Jeff Gardere. He is a psychologist in New York and also a contributor to healthguru.com.
You know one theory is dismemberment. And I want to get into that with our law enforcement officer here. But how does someone murder someone and take the body, bury a hole and dig it? How does someone comprehend that and live with themselves?
JEFF GARDERE, PSYCHOLOGIST, CONTRIBUTOR TO HEALTHGURU.COM: Psychopath. They don`t have feelings. They have very little guilt. They have very marginal relationships with other people.
So in this particular case, the person who did this perhaps felt that this young girl was too much of a responsibility. We know who we`re talking about here. Perhaps they felt that this young woman was in the way of whatever their life was, and because they have no feelings, they are able to -- after such a heinous murder, able to take the time to then spread the remains out. And I would think their thinking that -- so that they would not be found out.
CASAREZ: So someone is able to take a saw and saw from joint to joint to dismember, and they just don`t even think about it.
I want to go to Pat Brown, criminal profiler. You know, we`ve been talking about this, Nancy believes there was dismemberment of this body and I think most likely that is the case. But here`s a question I have for you.
The remains that were found at the Dudley Shoals Road site, five miles away, was a bone. That bone that now has been confirmed to be the DNA of Zahra Baker. Could it be that the remains that were there at the Dudley Shoals Road site that wild animals got to those remains, possibly a complete torso -- and I`m thinking of Caylee Anthony right now.
Could an animal have taken a bone five miles away that was ultimately found in that other location?
PAT BROWN, CRIMINAL PROFILER, AUTHOR OF "THE PROFILER": Well, Jean, I guess you could say it could happen, but I don`t believe it did happen. I think what they found is the torso and head of Zahra, which is the big items that they couldn`t -- they cut off the limbs and try to get rid of them, possibly the wood chipper.
And then they couldn`t deal with the torso and the head so they had to go bury that. My guess is it was buried deep enough that probably it wasn`t dug up by the animals. So I don`t think it was carried off.
And when you`re looking at how somebody can do this to some -- a child, you know, this is not a child that they loved. This is -- this child is a thing to them, and obviously they didn`t love her in life, they didn`t love her after her life was over either, so then they just had to get rid of the problem that was there in front of them.
It`s kind of like throwing away an old dress or something. You just have to get rid of it.
CASAREZ: And with us tonight is, exclusively, Carrie Fairchild. She is the sister of Elisa Baker tonight.
Miss Fairchild, we thank you very, very much for joining us tonight because you don`t have to. But we`ve got to ask you some things everyone wants to know because it is believed that this precious little girl was dismembered, her body cut up.
Could your sister have done something like that?
CARRIE FAIRCHILD, ZAHRA STEPMOM ELISA BAKER`S SISTER (via phone): I can honestly say I don`t know. Maybe, maybe not. I don`t know.
CASAREZ: What about Adam Baker?
FAIRCHILD: I didn`t know him well enough to say much about him at all. I only met him just the few times. I didn`t get a chance to really get to know him.
CASAREZ: I can imagine how shocking it is to even have to ponder the thought that your sister dismembered a little girl like Zahra Baker.
I want to go to Dr. Michael Arnall, MD, forensic board certified -- forensic pathologist joining us out of Denver, Colorado.
We hear that they found a bone. A bone. That`s what they said from the very beginning, they found a bone. This little girl`s been missing four to six weeks, depending upon the furniture store that someone says they saw her versus when Adam Baker reported her missing.
When I think of remains, I think of skin and tissue and nerve fibers and muscle. Can it become just a bone that soon?
DR. MICHAEL ARNALL, BOARD CERTIFIED FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST: Yes, it can. That`s entirely possible. The weather`s been warm enough. I think that`s possible.
CASAREZ: I want to go out to John Miller, the editor of "The Hickory Daily Record" standing by at the remains site.
Do your sources tell you if the remains found at the Dudley Shoals Road area were found in that 2 1/2 foot-deep hole that they dug or found to the side of that hole?
JOHN MILLER, EDITOR, HICKORY DAILY RECORD: No. We were told that the remains were found in the hole. Remember, the hole is about 10 feet wide, about 2 1/2 feet deep, about 25 feet away from Gunpowder Creek.
And what we saw while we were there, we took photos, we looked at the hole continually over a period of time on Wednesday, and it looked like not only had the dirt been scooped out and taken with the investigators, but there was a smaller hole inside the larger hole.
We can`t speculate as to --
CASAREZ: OK.
MILLER: -- what that was but we do know but that -- that there was some material in it.
CASAREZ: This leads me back --
MILLER: Human remains.
CASAREZ: -- to Dr. Michael Arnall, board certified forensic pathologist. If those remains were found in this 2 1/2 foot deep hole, were they not preserved at least to some degree?
ARNALL: I think you`re exactly right. If the body was buried, I think the preservation is going to be better. While the exposed bone found five miles away may have lost its tissue due to decomposition. The remains that were found in the hole exactly as you said may be much better preserved.
CASAREZ: All right. So then can that lead forensic pathologists to more likely than not determine a cause of death?
ARNALL: It`s certainly going to help if there are bruises and there`s a little bit of soft tissue remaining. They may be able to see that. If the bones in the neck, the hyoid bone is broken, that may lead them to believe there was strangulation.
If there`s any blood left inside the cranial cavity or a fractured skull, it may lead them to believe there was blunt trauma to the head.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Missing 10-year-old Zahra Baker --
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Breaking news for you right now in the Zahra Baker case.
ATKINS: We have recovered enough physical evidence to believe we have found Zahra.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Investigators who are on the scene --
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Medical examiner on site --
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: At the scene --
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Presence of human remains.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Human remains.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Remains.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Brought the ME there to be able to immediately make field identification of any remains that they were finding.
ATKINS: According to medical examiner staff on site, when the remains were recovered, they are consistent with a child.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If they find evidence, that`s just the beginning.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "I have never been so angry over stuff as I am right now."
GRACE: She`s playing everybody like a fiddle.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What if she doesn`t crack?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "He knows what happened to Zahra and yet I`m the one in here at least for now."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Who was involved in committing the crime against her?
DIETRICH: I`m so angry she was taken away from me like this.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
CASAREZ: I`m Jean Casarez in for Nancy Grace tonight.
This precious little angel, this princess that we`ve gotten to know for the last few weeks through her pictures and her smile, she is dead. Zahra Baker is dead. Hickory Police confirm today that they have found remains of a child, a small child. They believe it to be Zahra Baker.
I want to go to Paul Penzone, former sergeant of the Phoenix Police Department joining us tonight from Arizona.
You know, I can`t help but continue to compare this and think about Caylee Anthony in Florida. Because remains were found with Caylee Anthony. That was a crime scene for a week. You could not get near that area for a week.
Paul Penzone, do you realize that area has been released, the Dudley Shoals Road area, where remains were found on Wednesday? It`s released. Anyone can go there now. Is that the contamination of a crime scene and why release it so soon?
PAUL PENZONE, DIRECT OF PREVENTION PROGRAMS, CHILDHELP.ORG, FMR. SERGEANT, PHOENIX PD: It`s a considerable crime scene. You have a few different areas to work with right here and if you look at the history of this investigation, there`s been a few times where they had to revisit locations to go back for more evidence, so it may have been premature.
I want to compliment them on their commitment and their compassion with this case but it might be a little bit premature because we`re not sure what evidence could still be recovered out there.
It`s a vast area. You`re going to look through every fiber, every little piece of any physical evidence that might tie a suspect to this poor little girl.
CASAREZ: And Paul Penzone, we do realize there`s going to be two or three searchers tomorrow continuing to look for evidence.
I want to go to the lawyers now. Bradford Cohen, defense attorney out of Miami joining us, and Peter Elikan, defense attorney and author, "Super Predators", joining us out of Boston.
First of all, Bradford Cohen, the crime scene has been released now. Is that something that would be concerning to you as a defense attorney? Is that something that works in your favor once you get to trial?
BRADFORD COHEN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I mean, generally, it works in your favor because like the sergeant said, you`re really looking in that area for any little piece of evidence that you can find, anything to link that body back to someone that you can say OK, why is that on the body, why is that on the scene, and link that person to that area.
So releasing it now is certainly premature. I think up until this point -- until I heard about them releasing the scene, I think they`re doing an excellent job by keeping their cards close to their vest, not letting a lot of evidence out there, not letting a lot of people know the facts and circumstances that are surrounding this because that`s what makes for a good investigation.
The more facts that get leaked -- the more information that gets leaked gives ammunition to a defense attorney, gives ammunition to the defendant. So in this case, they are doing an excellent job there but I think they released this a little too early.
CASAREZ: To Peter Elikan, if you are representing Elisa Baker or Adam Baker tonight, at this moment, what`s your strategy?
PETER ELIKAN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Oh, boy, that`s really tough now. We haven`t seen all the evidence come out. Certainly I wouldn`t have had them talking to anybody for the time being.
Right now, though, I would have to analyze all the evidence once we see it. If I really thought it was a loser of a case, I would probably be talking about a guilty plea and trying to do as best I can.
I know that there`s -- chances are that the police are approaching both of them, asking them to sort of give information, testify against the other, cut themselves a deal that way. So there`s a lot of things that may be in play right now. But it just seems very premature.
But I`m with everybody else. I`ve been watching the TV, too, and certainly the evidence against them doesn`t look wonderful. But we don`t know if it absolutely has them nailed yet.
For all I know, she helped get -- take away the body but she wasn`t actually part of the murder. I mean, there`s just so many questions exactly where everything falls at this moment.
CASAREZ: But you know, Peter Elikan, when you look at a crime scene investigation, look at what we`ve been watching for weeks now. A mattress out of the home, bags of evidence out of the home, testing from the car, swabbings, possible blood. It goes on and on.
I want to go to a caller. Do we still have Cassidy in North Dakota tonight? Cassidy?
CASSIDY, CALLER FROM NORTH DAKOTA: Hello?
CASAREZ: Hi, Cassidy. Welcome to the show. What`s your question?
CASSIDY: Thanks for having me on. I just am curious, if he didn`t have any love for his daughter, why was he still adamant to keep her away from her biological mom?
CASAREZ: So you`re asking Elisa Baker -- why would she want to keep her away from Zahra Baker`s biological mother? Is that what you`re asking?
CASSIDY: Yes. Why is Adam Baker -- why wouldn`t he let the biological mother have anything to do with her?
CASAREZ: Adam Baker. Got it. Good question.
CASSIDY: Yes.
CASAREZ: Jeff Gardere. This is common, isn`t it?
GARDERE: Yes. This is common in custody cases. There might have been some real animosity between Adam Baker and Emily Dietrich, and she then became the collateral damage. She then became the weapon.
CASAREZ: And now "CNN Heroes."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RICKY MARTIN, SINGER: Hello. I`m Ricky Martin.
As one of CNN Heroes Blue Ribbon panelists, I had the honor of helping choose this year`s top ten. As the founder of the Ricky Martin Foundation I am committed to being an advocate for the well being of children around the world, and now I am thrilled to help CNN introduce one of this year`s top ten honorees.
Now, more than ever, the world needs heroes.
MAGNUS MCFARLANE-BARROW, CNN HERO: I never expected my life to change in this way. My father and I were having a pint in our local pub. We had seen a news report about a refugee camp in Bosnia and we began saying, wouldn`t it be wonderful if we could just do one small thing to help?
I`m Magnus McFarlane-Barrow. I gave up my job and I sold my house to try and help the people in Bosnia. Out of that has grown the organization which today feeds around 412,000 children every day in 15 different countries.
We buy the food locally and then we ask the local community to take responsibility for the daily cooking and serving of the food.
We`ve begun working in Haiti in 2006. In addition to feeding children we`ve been feeding the elderly. Since the earthquake we`ve been involved in providing health care, helping with rebuilding of the schools.
I`ve learned every small act of kindness does make a difference.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CASAREZ: And now a look back at the stories making the headlines this week.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DIETRICH: Unless you understand the story you don`t understand the pain.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: For the first time we`re hearing from the little girl`s mom.
DIETRICH: When I look at her, I was proud of her.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She is dealing with the likely loss of her daughter, a daughter that she`s chased through the years.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Josh Bell has finally spoken out.
GRACE: Breaks his silence not by talking to police but talking to the local newspaper.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Says his wife Susan, quote, "knows she will be chewed up like hamburger when she comes back."
CHUCK COX, FATHER OF MISSING MOM SUSAN POWELL: Totally baseless and self-serving.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Do you have any idea what happened to her?
JOSH POWELL, HUSBAND OF MISSING MOM SUSAN POWELL: No. Thank you.
GRACE: Police.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Police and FBI.
CASAREZ: Searching. This is a very important search.
GRACE: New search.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Searchers walking through the murky cold water in protective clothing.
GRACE: They are looking for the rest of Zahra`s bones.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "I am writing this letter to help."
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The anonymous letter.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "Hopefully it will solve the murder for Julie Mitchell." Build with the writer`s claims that noted the murder and Julie Mitchell`s death. Her adult step son called 911.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Reported that, quote, "Mom shot herself." The medical examiner`s office says 34-year-old Julie Mitchell died from multiple blunt force trauma.
CASAREZ: Something significant has been found.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Reports that human remains --
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Signs of remains.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The presence of human remains.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Her remains.
CASAREZ: May have been found.
DIETRICH: We worked at finding --
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Human remains there.
DIETRICH: And the way that they were saying she was treated.
GRACE: Just completely helpless.
DIETRICH: The only hope I have now is that she is gone.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The teacher charged with felony assault --
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: After poisoning her husband.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Elementary school teacher Rebecca Allwine arrested and charged for slipping the drug Ambien into her husband`s drink.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Twenty eight pills she put in that drink.
School district officials allowed her to stay in the classroom.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s ludicrous. It is. It is insane.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
CASAREZ: Tonight let us stop to remember Marine Sergeant David Kreuter. He`s 26 years old from Cincinnati, Ohio. He was awarded the Purple Heart and the Navy and Marine Corps Achievement medal. He is remembered for his love of history.
He loved reading military strategy books. His friends and his family say that he was always the life of the party. He was a constant comic relief for his friends in Iraq. He leaves behind his parents, Pat and Ken, his sisters Kristin and Laura, and his grieving widow, Christina and son Christian.
David Kreuter. He is an American hero.
Thank you so much to all of our guests and to you for being with us tonight. We`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern right here. God bless Zahra Baker.
Good night, everybody.
END
