Return to Transcripts main page
Nancy Grace
New Details on Zahra Death
Aired November 30, 2010 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JEAN CASAREZ, GUEST HOST: We begin tonight with breaking news out of North Carolina in the Zahra Baker investigation. After the heartbreaking discovery of the 10-year-old`s partial remains, we now go inside top secret police files, revealing shocking new details about the brutal death of Zahra. Search warrant documents just released say the little cancer survivor`s remains were dismembered, hidden in a bed comforter and then thrown away like trash in a local dumpster.
And that`s just the tip of the iceberg, as search warrant affidavits also include allegations of the sexual abuse of Zahra Baker before she was murdered. We have the stunning search warrants describing disturbing evidence just unsealed moments ago.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is with great regret I stand before you today. We have recovered enough physical evidence to believe we have found Zahra. We`ve been dreading this moment from early on in this investigation.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Breaking news. According to reports, newly released search warrants reveal Zahra Baker`s remains were allegedly concealed in a bed comforter and car cover, then thrown like trash in a garbage dumpster behind a local grocery store.
911 OPERATOR: 911. What is your emergency?
ADAM BAKER, ZAHRA`S FATHER: Yes, my daughter`s missing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: According to the medical examiner staff on site when the remains were recovered, they are consistent with a child.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The new warrants reportedly reveal Elisa Baker`s attorney told cops Zahra was dismembered inside the family home and that rubber gloves and blood would also be found in the house.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "I was trying to save us both, but why should I? He`s letting everyone destroy me."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Adam, did you have any involvement in her disappearance?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The stepmom also allegedly reveals her husband, Adam Baker, dumped a mattress and boxspring at a trash dump and claims Adam Baker also helped her wrap Zahra`s prosthetic leg in a trash bag before throwing it away.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CASAREZ: Good evening. I`m Jean Casarez of "In Session" on the truTV network, in for Nancy Grace tonight. Thank you so much for joining us. Breaking news in the Zahra Baker case, shocking new details about Zahra`s brutal murder, the emergency search warrants unsealed just moments ago.
For the very latest, let us go to John Miller, editor with "The Hickory Daily Record." John, we didn`t think details could get any worse, but they have.
JOHN MILLER, "HICKORY DAILY RECORD" (via telephone): Yes, we`ve got nearly 150 pages of documents that were unsealed today, giving lots of details, redundant details in some cases, but lots of details of what happened. As you said, we found out today that there were latex gloves used in the dismemberment of Zahra. We also found out that they took her leg, put it in a plastic bag and threw it away in a dumpster. And we also found out that the leg that they said that they discarded in the dumpster was not found in the same place that the leg was eventually found. So there was a gap in how that got to Caldwell County.
So we found out a lot of information today, but there are still gaps that need to be filled in. But what we found is there was also gruesome details that we had not heard before that were revealed in the search warrant.
CASAREZ: John, what about the body, the body that we now know through these search warrants was dismembered?
MILLER: Well, there`s not specific detail about the dismemberment of the body or how Zahra died. There were details about where some of the body parts were found, and for instance, the mattress -- there was more details about the mattress, about stains on the mattress. There was another mattress introduced in some of the search warrants today that we hadn`t heard about before, either. And then there was a rape allegation in the search warrants today that we had not heard about previously.
So all these things taken together, we don`t know what`s truthful, we don`t know what`s not, but it is a gruesome litany of things that we learned today, and we`re still trying to sort through it.
CASAREZ: To Natisha Lance, NANCY GRACE producer, joining us tonight. Talk about the bed comforter and the car cover.
NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Right, Jean. This is what this search warrant spells out as to what Zahra Baker`s body was covered in. It was a bed comforter, as well as a car cover. It was found in a dumpster that was behind a grocery store in Hudson, which is another location where the family had lived at one point.
And remember, Jean, when they were searching that landfill, this is a county -- Hudson is a county where this dumpster would have gone into this landfill. Also, we know at this landfill that they found a mattress.
Now, other things that were revealed in this search warrant, Jean, is that a boxspring, as well as a mattress was disposed of in Granite Falls, another location. Also, as John Miller just said about the prosthetic leg -- that was taken to an apartment complex, wrapped in a white trash bag and then placed into a dumpster, that those trash bags -- apparently, police did go to the home looking for those trash bags, trying to make a connection there.
CASAREZ: So Natisha Lance, the picture that you`re portraying to us here -- and this is borne out by the search warrants that were released today -- is that they were just driving around to various counties and locations and dumping things here and there.
To Ellie Jostad. Let`s go back to the family home, though, because we know 11 search warrants were executed, eight of them in the family home. And Elisa Baker is saying to look in the drain in the bathtub?
ELLIE JOSTAD, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Right. Her attorney actually told police, according to these warrants, that remains, including bone -- I believe she also mentioned blood or tissue -- could be found in the bathtub drain. We knew, based on those pictures we saw -- one of our affiliates got inside the home -- that a lot of the plumbing had been ripped out, sections of the wall had been ripped out. Allegedly, also, police were told that blood spatter could be found in the home. So it appears that the dismemberment may have occurred there in the house.
CASAREZ: All right. Ellie Jostad, let`s go to the heart and soul of the horror, if there couldn`t even be more horror in these search warrants that were unsealed, but allegations of an informant coming forward to law enforcement. So this has nothing to do with Elisa Baker telling authorities anything, but a separate informant about allegations of sexual abuse of Zahra? She was raped, allegedly?
JOSTAD: Right. According to these warrants, a source told police two men raped Zahra in a home in Hildebrand (ph). That`s a town about five miles or so west of Hickory, where she lived. Police also found at that home in the yard, lying on the ground, a mattress that reportedly had a dark stain on it.
Now, it`s unclear from these warrants whether or not they were able to confirm those rape allegations. But the source apparently told police that Zahra may have been hit in the head by one of these two men, one of the men allegedly connected to Elisa Baker, the stepmom.
CASAREZ: Right. All right, we are taking your calls live. Brenda in Georgia. Hi, Brenda.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi. Got a question. Has this man -- not her father -- has this man been arrested yet for this murder?
CASAREZ: No.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He hasn`t?
CASAREZ: Brenda, are you talking about Adam Baker, the biological...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. Yes. Yes.
CASAREZ: Well, Brenda, I don`t want to sound like a broken record, but he`s not been arrested on anything.
Let`s go to the lawyers. Susan Moss, family law attorney, child advocate out of New York, Ray Giudice, defense attorney out of the Atlanta jurisdiction, Carmen St. George, defense attorney.
All right, Susan Moss, OK, here`s another fact that we haven`t brought out tonight, but Adam Baker originally said on the 911 call that the last time he`d seen little Zahra was 2:30 that morning. But then he also said on Wednesday was the last time he`d seen her, and then said on a morning show it was Thursday. Isn`t that obstruction of justice, Susan Moss?
SUSAN MOSS, FAMILY LAW ATTORNEY: Absolutely! He`s caught in a lie, and now he`s going to fry! Look, the evidence is mounting up, but honestly, what type of pedophile rapes a one-legged child? And what type of parents or stepparent doesn`t call the police immediately and turn those men in? If that is, in fact, true, that is one of the most disgusting, disgraceful things we have ever heard on this show! And the fact that he should be going down for murder -- there should be no justice for this guy unless this guy is put to death!
CASAREZ: A one-legged deaf little girl that suffered lung cancer and bone cancer. Ray Giudice, all right, I can think of a number of charges. Why isn`t Adam Baker arrested yet?
RAYMOND GIUDICE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, I do agree with you there`s a lot of mounting evidence. And here`s what I`m seeing happening, is two things. We have a lawyer for Elisa Baker who`s making what`s called proffers. She`s telling law enforcement what her client is telling her. That tells me that very soon, Elisa Baker`s going to take a plea deal, roll over on other people or person, and we`re going to see other indictments coming soon.
CASAREZ: All right. Very good point. Carmen St. George, defense attorney, prosecutors upset at the unsealing of these documents today. But you know what? When you snooze, you lose. A search warrant can`t be sealed forever, right? But they said in their upsetment (ph) about it being unsealed that it jeopardizes the state`s rights to prosecute a defendant -- singular.
Do you think that when you look at Adam Baker that they haven`t gotten the information out of him that they want to, and they`re trying every way they can without putting him in custody? Is that the crux of all this?
CARMEN ST. GEORGE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: No, Jean, I think that there might even be more than one defendant, even though it`s phrased in that way. And the district attorneys, they do have an interest in this, in keeping it sealed, because of the potential for it to ruin their investigation. So that is their claim. I really don`t think they might just be focusing on one person, meaning Adam Baker, especially when there have been claims by Elisa Baker about the involvement of a potential rape with Zahra and other people.
CASAREZ: But Ray Giudice, I agree with you. I think Elisa Baker has given them every bit of information that they`ve gotten, except for these rape allegations, and I think a plea deal is possibly around the corner for her.
GIUDICE: That`s right. While these search warrants are not evidence in and of themselves, they are so specific and so targeted to events that occurred and so -- such an unfortunate logical rationale as to what probably happened, that I really think that we`re coming to the eighth and ninth inning of this early prosecution.
CASAREZ: And let us not forget, remains of Zahra Baker were found in a shallow grave in the Dudley Shoals area, where Elisa Baker allegedly led law enforcement to.
Midge in West Virginia. Hi, Midge. Good evening.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi.
CASAREZ: Thank you...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We got a question. We really got two. We were wanting to know, how long has this man and this woman been together? And how long has it been since this child has been with its biological mother? And why did they not send it back if they didn`t want this child?
CASAREZ: Well, Midge, it`s a long story. Let`s go to Natisha Lance. Natisha, summarize it. Start from the beginning. It all starts in Australia, right?
LANCE: It all starts in Australia, Jean. You`re absolutely right. Adam Baker and Elisa Baker apparently met over the Internet. She went to Australia. They married. The ended up coming back to the States with Zahra, and that`s where they`ve been for about the last two years.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Adam, can we talk to you?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) you`re a dad. This is a girl. This has to have an impact.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) said anything, Adam?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) Zahra? Did she ever do anything, Adam?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "Ain`t the monster people are saying."
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All fingers have been pointed at her. She wants to tell her story, she said.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "I want a chance to be heard, damn it."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Newly released search warrants.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Elisa, do you have anything to say?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Stepmom Elisa Baker reportedly telling cops there would be blood found in the family home, her attorney reportedly telling cops latex gloves were used while Zahra`s body was dismembered.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Tragic death.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Zahra Baker is dead.
EMILY DIETRICH, ZAHRA`S MOTHER: She was already gone when I found her.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Bone is said to have a DNA match to the profile for Zahra`s DNA.
DIETRICH: She is gone, so she`s not being hurt anymore!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Intense pressure on stepmom.
911 OPERATOR: You said no one has seen your daughter since 2:30 this morning?
BAKER: No. Like I said, we had all that drama last night.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They don`t have feelings.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) anything, Adam?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They have very little guilt.
DIETRICH: Sickening, what could have happened to her!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "Maybe I should just change my name to evil. What do you think? LOL."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CASAREZ: I`m Jean Casarez of "In Session," in for Nancy Grace. Details released just minutes ago in the Zahra Baker case from search warrants unsealed. We couldn`t even imagine some of these -- latex glove used in the home, according to Elisa Baker, to dismember the little girl, that possible remains found in the bathtub drain. Does that tell us that she was dismembered in the bathtub? So many things we hadn`t heard.
To John Miller, editor of "The Hickory Daily Record" in Hickory, North Carolina. You know, all of these places that the search warrants are saying, that the bed comforter and car cover were dumped in a dumpster out behind a restaurant with her body and that the prosthetic leg dumped at a dumpster in an apartment complex -- can you go through with us so we can just see how far away from where the Bakers lived were these various dump sites?
MILLER: Well, these various dump sites...
CASAREZ: And I hate to say that. I mean, this is a precious little girl, and the respect we have for her of what she endured, so -- but go ahead. Go ahead.
MILLER: All these locations are within 10 to 12 miles of the residence in Hickory. I mean, for instance, the apartment complex in Hickory, 1445 4th Street, is only about 10 minutes or about three or four miles away from the home. And it is in proximity, if you`re heading out of Hickory, to Granite Falls or to Caldwell County or even to Burke County. All this is within driving distance, within, I`d say, a half hour, 45 minute driving distance. So it may seem that the dispersal pattern is wide-ranging, but in reality, it really isn`t.
CASAREZ: And those are good words, dispersal pattern. That is very respectful.
To Marc Klaas, president and founder of Klaas Kids Foundation. One thing we have learned through these unsealing of the search warrants is that Adam Baker and Elisa Baker gave conflicting accounts about the last time that Zahra was with the family unit. Adam Baker says on the 911 call it was 2:30 that morning. He also asserted that Wednesday was the last time that he`d ever seen her. But Elisa Baker says they went to an Octoberfest celebration together as a family that Friday night. Those inconsistencies? Marc?
MARC KLAAS, KLAAS KIDS FOUNDATION: Yes. I`m sorry. I`m almost speechless as the details of this unfold.
CASAREZ: I know.
KLAAS: These people couldn`t get their story correct or even coordinated from the very beginning. You know, that house of horrors where that child resided was no home for her, it was a torture chamber. The idea that she has this sweet smile on her face is heightened by the fact that she seemed to undergo endless abuse, cruelty and downright evil at the hands of these people, probably from the moment that she landed upon our shores.
You know, Jean, I rarely find myself without words, but there are some acts that are so despicable, there are some things that are so evil and so horrible that words really can`t describe them. And I think, like the Holocaust, we`ve achieved that. We`ve found that threshold in this case. That this amazing little girl had to suffer at the hands of these evil people and then be dismembered and discarded like trash at the end of the day is just as horrible as anything that I can imagine.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "I don`t want to be in here that long yet again because of something I didn`t do. He did all this."
NANCY GRACE, HOST: And the father was complicit because he called in a fake 911 call about his daughter.
BAKER: We checked in there last night about 2:30 and she was there.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He was so stone cold on that one.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They should tell what they know, tell what happened.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "Zahra isn`t missing."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Documents reportedly allege that after Zahra was dismembered, she was hidden in a bed comforter and car cover, then ultimately thrown in a garbage dumpster behind a local food store.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CASAREZ: Search warrants were unsealed late today in the Zahra Baker case describing details that we have never known and are corroborated with much of the evidence that has already been found in this case.
I`m Jean Casarez of "In Session," in for Nancy Grace tonight. They say that her body was dismembered, covered in a bed comforter and car cover, and then dumped in a dumpster behind a restaurant.
We`ve got callers tonight. I want to go to Bobbi in Texas. Hi, Bobbi.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi. How are you?
CASAREZ: I`m all right. Thank you for calling.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you for having me. I just wanted to know, how come all these parents of all these children that`s been harmed or murdered can`t turn to adoption and give the kids to these people that can care about them and love them?
CASAREZ: You know, it just doesn`t make sense, does it. It just doesn`t make sense. To Susan Moss, family law attorney. You know, one of the 11 search warrants that were executed was to the Department of Human and Family Services because of the many calls that had been made of abuse on Zahra Baker and also Elisa Baker`s biological children. Is that where the process broke down?
MOSS: Absolutely! They should have been in there! They should have been interviewing the children, seeing what was really going on! But there is no way that this happened under the nose of Adam Baker! There is no way that he didn`t know what was going on! His 911 call was so cold, if he could have e-mailed the 911 call, he probably would have done it! It showed absolutely no feeling! And to me, it shows that this guy is guilty!
CASAREZ: All right. To Tom Shamshak, former police chief, private investigator, instructor at Boston University. These search warrants released say that Elisa Baker, through her attorney, told authorities that the remains of Zahra may be found in the bathtub drain area. What does that tell you as an investigator?
TOM SHAMSHAK, PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR: Good evening, Jean. Jean, it tells me that the mother witnessed the dismemberment of the child there. And police, as we know, removed the plumbing to inspect for skeletal remains, blood, hair, and such matters.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "Zahra isn`t missing. The cops know where she is and what he has done."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There`s no desperation in his voice.
BAKER: My name is Adam Baker.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There`s no urgency.
BAKER: It appears they may have taken my daughter.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "We really didn`t kill her, but what he did after the fact is kinda horrifying."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Zahra Baker was dismembered. Her remains were stuffed inside a bed comforter and car cover, according to reports of court documents that have just been released.
MARC KLAAS, PRESIDENT AND FOUNDER, KLAASKIDS FOUNDATION: This is so diabolical.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Somebody actually treated her like she was a doll.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They would make fun of the child for not walking right.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And ripped her apart. What kind of insanity would allow people to just take her leg?
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: For the first time, the search warrants peel back layers of the investigation, revealing stepmom Elisa Baker and dad Adam Baker allegedly gave police totally conflicting information on when they last saw Zahra.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Who was involved in committing the crime against her?
EMILY DIETRICH, ZAHRA BAKER`S MOTHER: I`m so angry she was taken away from me like this.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The important thing for her is that her daughter has been found.
CHIEF TOM ATKINS, HICKORY POLICE: Our community mourns. Our state mourns. Our nation mourns.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The documents also contain allegations from stepmom Elisa Baker that Zahra`s dad Adam Baker helped to conceal evidence and even helped her wrap Zahra`s prosthetic leg in a plastic bag before discarding it in a dumpster.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
JEAN CASAREZ, GUEST HOST: I`m Jean Casarez of "In Session" on the truTV Network in for Nancy Grace tonight.
Search warrants unsealed today with horrifying details of Zahra Baker`s dismemberment. Elisa Baker, through her attorney, says that the latex gloves that were used as she was dismembered should be in the bathroom cabinet. The plastic bags that her dismembered body was put in should be in the kitchen cabinet.
I want to go out to Natisha Lance standing by on this case from the very beginning.
Natisha, tell us some of the details that we`ve learned from these search warrants today.
NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, 11 search warrants, Jean, eight of them from the Baker home. The other from e-mails and social networking sites. The details that we learned, the most horrifying detail is that Zahra Baker`s body was dismembered.
She was then covered with a comforter and a car cover and then disposed of in a dumpster behind a grocery store in Hudson.
Now some of the other details is that a mattress and a box spring were disposed of at another location of another dumpster and Zahra`s prosthetic leg was also wrapped in a white trash bag and then disposed of at an apartment complex in Hickory, North Carolina.
CASAREZ: Ellie Jostad, something else we found out today in these search warrants, in regard to a polygraph. Now I think I remember Elisa Baker telling friends, relatives, that she had taken and passed a polygraph, but something very different in these search warrants, right?
NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Yes. You`re right, yes. She told friends and relatives from behind bars that she`d taken a polygraph test that would prove she`s telling the truth. However, these search warrants indicate that she was deceptive on three questions -- did you hurt Zahra, do you know if someone hurt Zahra, and do you know who wrote the ransom note.
CASAREZ: All right. And that must have been done, Ellie, near the beginning of all of this because it was deceptive as to who wrote the ransom note but later we heard she admitted she wrote it, and that`s why she was charged with obstruction of justice.
JOSTAD: Right.
CASAREZ: Let`s go to a caller. Micki in Texas. Hi, Micki.
MICKI, CALLER FROM TEXAS: Hi, Jean. I just want to say, if I can, to Nancy that my thoughts and prayers are with her and may God bless her. Very merry Christmas with John David and Lucy and her husband.
And my question is, how in God`s name this man -- first of all, I don`t call him her father, I call him a monster and the stepmom is not a stepmom, she`s a stepmonster. How in God`s creation can he still be walking around?
CASAREZ: We don`t know.
MICKI: And not behind bars? I don`t understand that. I tried to talk to Nancy when I first found out about this, heard about it on TV.
Jean, I could not even speak. I was crying so hard.
CASAREZ: You know, Micki, when you hear this stuff, you want to cry. I just want to sit here and cry. But I can`t. And Micki, I want to tell you, Nancy is watching tonight so she heard everything you just said, and she appreciates it very, very much.
Micki, the question that we have -- Tom Shamshak, former police chief, help us out. Why isn`t this man arrested for something? What`s the strategy to keep him on the street? And in fact, Tom Shamshak, he`s going to be leading a memorial service for his daughter relatively soon.
TOM SHAMSHAK, FMR. POLICE CHIEF, PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR, INSTRUCTOR AT BOSTON UNIV.: Jean, I am mystified. I`m puzzled as to why this man has not been arrested, particularly in light of the information that has been disclosed today with the unsealing of these search warrants.
I cannot explain why this man is not in custody at this particular point in time. I don`t see any type of a strategy here to keep him out there.
CASAREZ: I know, and there has to be some strategy going. There has to be. But none of us can figure it out.
Want to go to Radha Mikkilineni, who is our doctor of internal medicine.
You know, Doctor, I have covered far too many dismemberment cases. I have watched the evidence, I have seen it as an attorney, I`ve understood it. You can`t just take a kitchen knife and dismember someone. Some cases, they`ve gone to the hardware store and gotten a hacksaw.
How does somebody dismember someone?
DR. RADHA MIKKILINENI, M.D., INTERNAL MEDICINE: Well, unfortunately, it`s pretty crude. In a child Zahra`s age, she`s quite small, she`s thin. Most likely a saw was used, perhaps a large manual saw that you could use to chop wood.
The other option would be a manual motor saw. This can be done, it`s something that depends as well on what kind of dismemberment took place. If they were simply dismembering limbs, you would really be cutting through cartilage as opposed to bone, which is far easier to do than to actually saw through pieces of bone, if you were going to dismember her and cut her torso up into pieces.
CASAREZ: And, Doctor, may I tell you the line of work that Adam Baker is in is landscaping, cutting trees.
MIKKILINENI: So it would have been very easy for him to access this kind of equipment, and therefore, using power tools, of course, would have been extremely -- an extremely simple way to dismember this poor girl.
CASAREZ: And we want to remind everybody, nobody has been charged. No one has actually been designated as a suspect even in this case.
But, to Dr. Janet Taylor, psychiatrist, here is another fact that we have learned today from the search warrants. The little hearing aids of Zahra Baker that she used to hear a little bit in this world because she was deaf, they were found in the house, not in the bedroom as we always thought Zahra Baker`s hearing aids would be in the bedroom.
We learned today they were found in the jewelry case, allegedly, of Elisa Baker.
DR. JANET TAYLOR, PSYCHIATRIST: You know, that just indicates again how detached these parents, this mother -- stepmother and father were from this little girl that they didn`t even give her access to the outside world. I mean, it`s so tragic and just indicates their lack of remorse and also probably guilt.
CASAREZ: But what else could motivate putting the hearing aids in your jewelry case? Are you going to sell them later on or is there an ulterior motive here to not just put them in her bedroom? Because they said that she was -- someone came and got her.
TAYLOR: Well, I think the ulterior motive is to disorient her. As you remember, they said that she was isolating herself and, you know, she was -- you know pre-pubertal and staying away from them.
Well, of course she was. She probably couldn`t hear them. I mean she was tortured and systematically separated from the outside world.
CASAREZ: I thought of that, Dr. Taylor. Whoever murdered her, she watched but she couldn`t hear as it all began. And that`s just hard to find words to describe.
Lena in Florida. Hi, Lena.
LENA, CALLER FROM FLORIDA: Hi, Jean. Thank you so much for taking my call.
CASAREZ: You`re welcome.
LENA: Could you tell Nancy we love her and we`re praying for her.
CASAREZ: She heard you.
LENA: We have a question -- I have a question for you. When all that blood and blood splatter disproved the stepmom`s claim that she had found the child dead?
CASAREZ: Right. What you are saying, Lena in Florida, is that there was a lot of corroborating evidence to what we are finding in these search warrants unsealed that Elisa Baker through her attorney told law enforcement.
To Dr. Radha Mikkilineni, when you`re talking about dismembering, we know that when they executed search warrants on the home, they took parts of the wall, they took the floor, they took the drains, they took the sinks. You`re talking about a lot of blood, right?
MIKKILINENI: Absolutely. It is highly likely that the dismemberment would have taken place in the bathtub. And that would be an area that would be easily cleaned as well after the fact. So yes, there`s going to be blood splatter and they`re going to have to connect all of that evidence to the crime scene.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: Do you know who this was?
ADAM BAKER, FATHER OF MISSING 10-YEAR-OLD GIRL ZAHRA BAKER I don`t know who --
UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: That may have taken her?
A. BAKER: No, ma`am.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: Do you have any idea why they were threatening to take his daughter?
A. BAKER: I don`t know.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: OK. What`s your name?
A. BAKER: My name is Adam. Baker?
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Has stepmommy cracked?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m helping the cops try and get my soon-to-be ex-husband in here.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Documents reportedly allege that after Zahra was dismembered.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She loves her daughter.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She has been cooperating with police.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She`s tried to cooperate with the police.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: She was hidden in a bed comforter and car cover, then ultimately thrown in a garbage dumpster.
KLAAS: This woman is just like a shark.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Baker joined police in the search.
KLAAS: She is always moving forward.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: She has allegedly given them more information.
KLAAS: She`s destroying whatever is in her path.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The family got rid of a mattress.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The stepmom also claims she had help disposing of evidence from Zahra`s own dad, Adam Baker.
KLAAS: This is a little girl --
ZAHRA BAKER, MISSING 10-YEAR-OLD: I can actually hear more than without my hearing aid.
KLAAS: -- who has been discarded piece by piece.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
CASAREZ: And search warrants are released unsealed late this afternoon say that an informant came forward to law enforcement saying that little 10-year-old Zahra Baker may have been raped by two men and then allegedly hit on the head, one of those men having a relationship in some capacity allegedly with Elisa Baker.
Search warrants, documents revealed much, much more than that. Horrifying descriptions of dismemberment but nothing about cause of death.
To Marc Klaas, president and founder of KlaasKids Foundation, I touched on this earlier, the memorial service for Zahra Baker being planned and led by her father, Adam Baker, has now become a private event -- he has chosen -- and it`s been postponed a little bit.
Your thoughts on that?
KLAAS: Well, I think that the reason he`s gone from a public event to a private event is simply because he doesn`t want to get lynched. I can`t imagine that anybody would show up to a private event. Who in the world would want to be alone in a room with this man who enabled and allowed and probably participated in the evil perpetrated upon this sweet young girl.
CASAREZ: Law enforcement. Law enforcement would want to be there to see his demeanor, to see his tears, to see his lack of tears.
Susan Moss, family law attorney, how many trials do we see where law enforcement is asked on the stand, did you attend the funeral, what did you see, or family members, what did you see of the emotions of the father or whoever is the defendant?
SUSAN MOSS, FAMILY LAW ATTORNEY & CHILD ADVOCATE: Yes, but he`s had a lot of time to prep now. What really shows his emotion or lack thereof was that 911 call, where his emotion was so cold, so steady, it really showed who this guy was. And I think they`ve kept him out of jail because they think they`re going to -- this guy is going to lead them to those two alleged rapists, because I think that the judge -- the courts think and the cops think that it wasn`t just these two, but it was two other people who are responsible for the demise of this poor little girl.
CASAREZ: That`s really interesting, Susan Moss. That`s good. That`s very good.
Carmen St. George, defense attorney out of New York, prosecutors don`t need a motive. We know that. But what is the motive here? Somebody murdered this little girl. Why?
CARMEN ST. GEORGE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Jean, I got to say, they don`t need to prove that but looking at the evidence that we have from the search warrants that there might have been some allegations of rape, you know, these people were home-schooling this little girl, they were abusing her, there were allegations that they took her and had her raped.
And you know, there`s a good chance that they then killed her. I mean you`re talking about blood and human remains found in the cars in their driveway. You`re talking about blood and human remains found on a wood chipper where the father was working near the site.
There is really so many cases out there where we have seen much less evidence and defendants incarcerated so it`s very strange even from a defense perspective that this -- Adam Baker is still not incarcerated.
CASAREZ: That`s right. To Ray Giudice, was it just that she was a burden? This little girl that was deaf and only had one leg, that had suffered bone cancer and then lung cancer? Was she just a burden? Would that be the motive?
RAY GIUDICE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes. I mean, you certainly could do a psychological profile of why they wanted to not have this child, but let`s stop for just a second.
You know, when you have allegations that are so specific, it causes one problem for the prosecution. You better prove it. There better be some blood splatter of that child in that bathroom from the walls that they took down. There better be some DNA in the plumbing that they took.
I mean, they`ve got to link this up. This information is now out in the public. These are the jurors of North Carolina that would hear this case if it went to trial. When it comes to trial, they better close this circle, because they really made some very specific allegations and if they`re basing it on this stepmother who I think has some -- she may not be legally insane but she`s a crazy person, you know, you may not want to base your case solely on what she says if you`re law enforcement.
CASAREZ: That`s right. So blood splatter expert must be extraordinaire for the prosecution.
Let`s go to Amanda in North Carolina.
Amanda, you are right there in the state. Are you anywhere close to where this all happened?
AMANDA, CALLER FROM NORTH CAROLINA: Yes, about 40 minutes away.
CASAREZ: Wow. Wow. What`s your question or what are your thoughts on all of this?
AMANDA: It`s been terrible. My question is, OK. Elisa took the cops to the prosthetic leg on Dudley Shoals Road. Now she`s saying the prosthetic leg was put in a bag or car cover and threw here into a dumpster.
CASAREZ: Yes.
AMANDA: How did it get on Dudley Shoals Road? Who moved it?
CASAREZ: You know, Amanda, you are really, really smart because we were talking about this before the show because you`ve got the prosthetic leg, you`ve got prosthetic leg liner.
Ellie Jostad, NANCY GRACE producer, sort it all out for us. Lay it down.
JOSTAD: Right. Well, this is what we were talking about. We know that Dudley Shoals Road is where the remains were found a little bit later on in the case. At the beginning we were told that the prosthetic leg had been found. Now it was around the time that they were searching Christy Road.
We all made the assumption that that`s where they found it, although police would never say exactly where it was found. In the bond reduction document, however, that`s where Elisa Baker`s attorney claims that the leg liner was found there at Christy Road. So it`s unclear at this point.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: For the first time the search warrant peeled back layers of the investigation. Allegations from stepmom Elisa Baker that Zahra`s dad Adam Baker helped to conceal evidence and even helped her wrap Zahra`s prosthetic leg in a plastic bag before discarding it in a dumpster.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Missing 10-year-old Zahra Baker.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Breaking news for you right now in the Zahra Baker case.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Warrants reportedly reveal Elisa Baker`s polygraph results showed she was deceptive on key questions including when police asked her whether she hurt Zahra.
ATKINS: I`ve been dreading this moment.
DIETRICH: I`m sorry you had to have a bad life.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
CASAREZ: Let`s go out to Natisha Lance, NANCY GRACE producer on this case, from the beginning.
Natisha, we learned through the unsealing of the search warrants that it looks like that after that 911 call was made at some point Elisa Baker was put in one corner, Adam Baker in another corner asking when was the last time you saw Zahra and they had very different answers.
LANCE: There have been a lot of different answers as to that question, Jean. For one thing, Adam Baker says on the 911 call that he saw Zahra at 2:30 that morning along with Elisa Baker. Then on the "Good Morning America" show he said that he hadn`t seen Zahra since Thursday.
Then in this search warrant that was just recently released he said he hadn`t seen her until the previous Wednesday which would have been September 29th and then Elisa Baker says as a family they went to an Oktoberfest the day before Zahra was reported missing.
So it`s still unclear and I still think that`s one of the issues that police have is that they`re trying to figure out what this timeline is because they`ve given so many different variations of when the last time Zahra was seen.
CASAREZ: And that came at the very beginning so that was a red flag to investigators right from the start.
Kimberly in Virginia, hi, Kimberly.
KIMBERLY, CALLER FROM VIRGINIA: Hey, hon. I just want to say I love Nancy Grace so much and thank you for covering everything that you all cover. I have a question, though. Has anyone heard from Zahra`s real mom or anything since all of this breaking news has come about with, you know, the dismemberment and the possibility of sexual abuse and things of that?
Is she still in the United States or, you know, any of that?
CASAREZ: You know, Kimberly, what we do know is that she came over from Australia to North Carolina. She was here when those remains were found in that grave and we know that she knew that she had been dismembered.
She has returned to Australia now. She wants the remains but they`re in the hands of law enforcement.
Thank you, Kimberly.
Tonight let us stop to remember. Army Staff Sergeant Victor Lieurance, 34 years old from Seymour, Tennessee, he was killed in Iraq.
From a family of Navy and Army vets, he was awarded the Bronze Star, the Purple Heart, and the Army Good Conduct medal. He also served the first gulf war. He loved comic books, military history, and military vehicles, especially tanks.
He leaves behind his parents, Andre and Peggy, his stepmother Karen, his three sisters, one brother, his widow Penny, and his beloved sons Chase and Damien.
Victor Lieurance, a true American hero.
Thank you so much to all of our guests for being at home with us. We`ll see you tomorrow night 8:00 sharp Eastern.
Good night, everybody. Good night.
END
