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JOY BEHAR SHOW
WikiLeaks Founder Placed on Interpol`s Most Wanted List for Alleged Sex Crimes; Scarborough Goes After Palin
Aired December 1, 2010 - 21:00:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JOY BEHAR, HOST: Joe Scarborough is going after Sarah Palin. He said finishing third in a beauty pageant doesn`t qualify her to run for president. But he didn`t say anything about finishing second.
ANNOUNCER: Coming up on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW. WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange is placed on Interpol`s most wanted list for alleged sex crimes. The U.S., Australia and Sweden are hunting him down. But will stopping Assange stop future leaks.
Then on the cusp of her "Idol" J-Lo is in a fierce battle with her ex who claims he has a racy videotape of the star.
Plus, Brandy is here to talk about her unfair shake on "Dancing with the Stars" and her very public dry spell.
That and more starting right now.
BEHAR: WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange is a wanted man. But not just for leaking secret diplomatic cables. Interpol is after him for allegations of rape. But the 39-year-old Australian says the allegations are false and he`s being persecuted.
Here to fill me on the latest is CNN correspondent, Atika Shubert, who once interviewed the WikiLeaker himself, Julian Assange. What are the specifics of the allegation against Assange?
ATIKA SHUBERT, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, we don`t know the exact details. What we do know is that two women basically brought these charges to police saying they suspected him of a rape charge and what they in Sweden call the sexual molestation charge. It`s pretty much like harassment.
And this whole case from the beginning was very strange. They brought these charges to police. They were filed. And then the next day, they were dropped by the prosecutor, only to be resurrected weeks later. So the whole thing was very strange.
Julian Assange himself says that he did have consensual sexual relations with both women but he says all of these sex crimes allegations are completely false. And he doesn`t really understand where this arrest warrant is coming from, from Sweden; where this Interpol red notice is coming from because he says he has offered himself up for questioning to the Swedish police and prosecutors numerous times files and has been rejected every time.
BEHAR: Well, the timing is very suspicious, don`t you think?
SHUBERT: Definitely. And his lawyers say the same thing.
BEHAR: Ok. Why is -- that`s the answer to that question. The Interpol is coming out now because something is going on where they just want his head. He`s embarrassed a lot of people. It makes sense, doesn`t it?
SHUBERT: He has embarrassed a lot of people. But there`s no clear connection at this point to the documents he puts out and these allegations that he`s looking at in Sweden. Of course, there`s a lot of suspicion. And because the case is very strange, he personally views it as an attack, not just on him, but on WikiLeaks as an organization. And he says security services have warned him a number of times that something like this may happen.
BEHAR: Now you -- it`s interesting. You sat down with Assange and he actually walked off when you asked him about his personal legal troubles. So, he doesn`t want to talk about it, I guess, with a reporter. Tell me what your personal impressions were of him.
SHUBERT: This is somebody -- he`s a brilliant man. There`s no doubt about that. His brain is working much faster I would say than most people`s. He`s very passionate. He`s very idealistic. He`s not really trying to take down any particular government or organization.
But he`s just a true believer in this idea of freedom of information. Activism, that the more the public knows about how the governments and organizations and banks and so forth really work, shining a light on their inner workings, the better the public will be and the better that these governments and organizations will perform. And that`s what he thinks he`s doing by releasing this huge amount of material.
So he`s very committed, very passionate about this idea. And he`s not going to be giving it up any time soon.
BEHAR: Right. Well, it remains to be seen how dangerous all of this is at the end of the day but that`s where he`s coming from. Thanks very much Atika.
Now, I want to bring in my panel: Carl Bernstein, journalist and contributing editor at "Vanity Fair" magazine; and Michael Hastings, contributing editor to "Rolling Stone" and the author of "I lost my love in Baghdad".
Carl, Interpol is going after this guy Assange, charging him with rape, et cetera. Do you think that they`re using this allegation as a way to nab him because they`re really ticked off about what he`s done?
CARL BERNSTEIN, CONTRIBUTING EDITOR, "VANITY FAIR": I don`t know the facts.
BEHAR: What do you think?
BERNSTEIN: No, no. I`m not going there. The one fact that I see is that one of the allegations is that a condom broke in the midst of intercourse and that the woman told him to stop and he didn`t. That`s one of the allegations of rape.
BEHAR: You mean intercourse or Interpol?
BERNSTEIN: That`s right. Look, this is a really important story.
BEHAR: Yes, it is.
BERNSTEIN: There is this sideshow as to whether or not he`s being prosecuted or persecuted.
But the really important thing is that we not look at this huge trove of information through an ideological lens. That rather this is something that is important. It goes to the issue of government. It goes to the issue of newspapers and the press. It goes to the issue of Fox News and others.
BEHAR: So do you think it`s the right thing to have done on his part?
BERNSTEIN: Well, look, whistle-blowers have their own intentions always. I think it`s the right thing for "The New York Times" to publish, "Der Spiegel" to publish. It`s the right thing for WikiLeaks to be responsible in the way they put this information out and make sure that it`s redacted in a way that people`s names -- that they`re not in danger, et cetera, et cetera.
BEHAR: Right. Ok. Now Michael, Assange`s lawyer said the alert is bizarre, irregular and comparable to tactics used under Stalin.
MICHAEL HASTINGS, ROLLING STONE: Right. And first I just want to thank you for having me on the program. It`s an honor for me to be on the panel with a journalist legend like Carl Bernstein.
BERNSTEIN: You did a hell of a story this year.
BEHAR: Well, the two of you are both whistle-blowers in many ways and --
BERNSTEIN: We`re journalists.
BEHAR: But both of you are famous for blowing the whistle on something.
HASTINGS: Well, and Carl has been doing it for decades and really holding people to account.
In terms of the -- it`s an honor to be here -- but in terms of the allegations, in terms of what Assange`s lawyers are saying, look, he`s in a battle for his client`s really his client`s freedom. So I think we can excuse a little bit of the hyperbolic rhetoric. But there is something definitely unusual about the timing of the arrest warrant.
And if you look at these other factors, all the screws are being put to WikiLeaks right now and Julian Assange right now, whether it`s taking off their server on Amazon.com or basically issuing what it seems like there`s (INAUDIBLE) an arrest warrant issued for him if he ever tried to return to the United States.
BEHAR: All right. Let me just ask I you while I have you there, you exposed personal conversations between General McChrystal in Afghanistan -- similar in a certain way, right? These are personal conversations from the Internet, am I right?
BERNSTEIN: It`s news. It`s news. Let`s go back to that.
BEHAR: You did this Michael. Ok. It`s news. But Michael did that. I would like to know from you. What`s behind -- what`s the motivation for something like that? What were you feeling when you did that?
HASTINGS: Well, I was there to do a profile on General McChrystal. And they had invited me to do it and then I just wanted when they said and I saw. And I think -- often the motivation is if you find instances where public officials are saying one thing in public and another thing in private, I think it`s the duty of journalists to sort of point those instances out.
BEHAR: You agree with that, Carl?
BERNSTEIN: Yes. But I think, let`s start bottom line, what`s in these disclosures so far, there is not a story out of 400 that I`ve seen so far that would be Page One stories, all of them great stories --
BERNSTEIN: Absolutely. That New York -- just a minute -- "New York Times, Fox, CNN, wouldn`t plaster all over the place give their reporters a raise if they got the story. There are terrific stories in there. Usually you don`t -- you know people write books about these kinds of things. How the State Department works on the inside. There is also a huge problem in the Internet age about the protection of information.
We, meaning governments, corporations, newspapers, everybody have got to find a better way to secure information. There`s always a war going on between those of us who want to get the information out and those who don`t want it out. That intention is inherent.
BEHAR: Bill Clinton says that WikiLeaks will cost lives. And then there are others say that it`s really just gossipy and not -- what is it?
BERNSTEIN: I haven`t seen anything yet that would cost lives. But I think it is terrifically important that news organizations and WikiLeaks straddles a very unclear line here -- I don`t think it`s really a news organization. I think it`s a disclosure -- it`s a kind of guerilla news organization.
But it`s up to WikiLeaks first to go through that information and get names out. But I think that by giving it to "The Times", "Spiegel" those institutions are doing what they ought to do in the handling of this.
BEHAR: But it can go elsewhere. I mean --
BERNSTEIN: Yes. You don`t know exactly who has what information at this point. But look, the disclosure of --
BEHAR: Michael wants to get in here.
BERNSTEIN: Pardon me Michael --
BERNSTEIN: -- secret information always carries a risk. We have to be very careful about how we use that information.
BEHAR: Ok, Michael. What did you want to say?
HASTINGS: I agree. And I think Secretary Gates came out yesterday and said, hey, basically this is not a big deal which raises another question. Well, these are not a big deal then why are we spending so much time trying to classify all this secret information?
BERNSTEIN: Actually most of it`s low classification information.
BEHAR: But weren`t you interested in the fact that the Arab world would like us to bomb the nuclear reactor at Iran? I mean, I thought that was fascinating.
BERNSTEIN: -- there are great stories in there.
BEHAR: That`s not a page -- a front page story?
BERNSTEIN: That`s my point -- that`s exactly what I said it`s a terrific story. There are lots of terrific stories in here.
BERNSTEIN: And sure, the Statement Department doesn`t want that disclosed.
BERNSTEIN: -- because it comes through their -- also, many of the things in these cables are the kinds of things that the assistant secretary of state for public affairs will himself or herself leak to reporters when it suits their interest.
BEHAR: And what about this idea that Assange would like to get Hillary Clinton fired? What about that?
BERNSTEIN: Well, well what he said --
BEHAR: He says, like he`s accusing her of espionage.
BERNSTEIN: I --
BEHAR: What -- what do you say to that Michael?
HASTINGS: Well, I don`t think Hillary Clinton should resign. I think -- I think in general she`s -- she`s done a great job as a Secretary of State. I think what Assange was saying was that if she can -- if -- if you can pin the violation of treaties against spying on her, especially spying at the U.N. --
MICHAEL: -- then she should step down. But it seemed to be an institutional issue that the State Department has been doing for a long time.
BEHAR: Ok, thank you very much guys. It`s a very interesting conversation.
We`ll be back after a short break.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Coming up a little later on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW, the latest on J-Lo`s bitter legal battle. Will a judge allow her ex- husband to release racy home movies?
And Brandy drops to talk about her controversial departure from "Dancing with the Stars".
Now back to Joy.
BEHAR: Senate Republicans have pledged to block every Democratic bill until the Bush tax cut issue is resolved. And they`ve evidently kept that promise by blocking an extension of unemployment benefits which expire today, just in time for Christmas.
So how is that for compassionate conservatism? Ok.
With me to discuss this and more is John Fugelsang, actor and comedian; and Dana Loesch, editor of BigJournalism.com and radio host at KFTK 97.1 FM.
Ok, John, does this make the GOP look like the party of no yet again?
JOHN FUGELSANG, ACTOR/COMEDIAN: Well, I mean, I like the GOP. I don`t like who they vote for. But the GOP is good at two things at this point -- the modern GOP is good at two things, redistribution of wealth to the upper two percent and convincing nice Republican folks that this is a good thing.
BEHAR: I know. How do they do that?
FUGELSANG: It`s easy because they blame the poor, they blame the less fortunate. Rich people pay Fox people to make middle class people blame poor people.
BEHAR: How do they do that? Dana, how do they convince poor people that they should admire the two percent that make all the money in this country and let them off the hook every time? How do they do that?
DANA LOESCH, TALK RADIO HOST: Well, what I don`t understand and I think that`s funny that -- that John mentioned redistribution of wealth. Because I thought that that was the Democrat platform but I guess we disagree on that. But I look at it like this, the Bush tax, this -- this is -- we need to start calling this tax cuts. This is essentially an extension of the current tax rate. Because regardless of whatever party does what, if this does not get continued after the first of the year, we`re looking at a massive tax hike in a quasi recessionary period -- which is not good.
FUGELSANG: For whom?
LOESCH: A massive tax hike for all Americans.
BEHAR: Oh that`s not the true.
LOESCH: And you keep talking about -- you keep talking about -- John, you mentioned like the upper two percent. You have to realize too that a lot of individuals, including my husband, files as -- as in -- his small business files as an individual. When you look at what the gross net revenue of what some of these businesses make sure it`s over $250,000. But what is their actual take-home pay? You have to look at the facts of the matter, ok.
BEHAR: Ok we got it.
FUGELSANG: Right, so the upper two percent, like we said. Here is the thing --
LOESCH: The people who create the jobs.
FUGELSANG: Right. Because they`ve done --
LOESCH: Because you want to penalize the people who create them?
FUGELSANG: Yes, because they`ve been doing such a good job of creating so many jobs over the past nine years haven`t they?
LOESCH: No that`s the government who gets involved and decides to put all of these regulations --
FUGELSANG: So Bush`s tax cuts that didn`t create the jobs are actually creating the jobs. We just haven`t heard that?
LOESCH: But what about -- we have like this $3 trillion stimulus here; all of this -- this huge massive deficit. Where are the jobs for that? We`re looking like at 10 percent unemployment rate.
BEHAR: All right, let`s -- let`s can we talk about unemployment insurance a little bit? Why would the Republicans want to block the extension on benefits? I mean, people are out of work. They have come up with no solution. They are the party of no, as we just discussed. They have -- they have no compassion for people who are out of work apparently except let it trickle down from the top. And then they cut off people`s unemployment right before Christmas. Answer that, please. Answer me.
LOESCH: There are so many false premises with that statement but what I`m going to look at is this --
BEHAR: All right, let`s -- don`t -- don`t filibuster now Dana, just answer my question.
LOESCH: No, I`m not filibustering.
BEHAR: Go ahead.
LOESCH: I`m going to -- Joy, you -- you think apparently that it`s -- it`s cool to pay people for doing nothing. When it`s the government backed --
BEHAR: No, no, no. It`s unemployment insurance.
LOESCH: If the government got out of the way of job creation and stopped taxing the crap out of people who create jobs we would actually see a rise in employment. That is --
BEHAR: But that didn`t work on the Bush why would it work now? It didn`t work.
LOESCH: That is history, it worked under Reagan and --
BEHAR: That was then.
FUGELSANG: And here`s the thing --
LOESCH: -- and Bush administration in 1916 -- and you can you can go back. There are cycles of this.
BEHAR: Wait a second. Let me get you on that -- I want to just ask you.
BEHAR: What would you say to somebody who`s unemployed now who has four children who is now -- now broke. What is he supposed to do this Christmas? You tell me. Tell me.
LOESCH: I would ask, if I were that person -- and I grew up with a single mother in that environment -- I would be asking why the administration is making it difficult for job creation by way of taxing --
BEHAR: Oh that`s what you --
LOESCH: -- people who create jobs. That`s where it starts. That`s where it starts.
When you have less discretionary income, you`re not going to -- employers aren`t going to be spend money on things like job creation or benefits.
BEHAR: Ok go ahead.
FUGELSANG: Can I add please?
FUGELSANG: Ok, now I would love to see the Democrats force a filibuster on this. I`d love to see the Republicans filibuster and the Democrats actually call their bluff and make them do it. However, the modern Democratic Party is like an S&M slave that forgot its safety word --
BEHAR: A bunch of wimps.
BEHAR: I agree with you.
FUGELSANG: I mean, I love Obama.
LOESCH: So do I.
FUGELSANG: -- but the guy is like -- he`s Clark Kent without a phone booth.
But here`s the thing, getting back the -- getting back to this tax continuation, it`s actually a tax increase. And because Bush made those tax cuts designed to expire at the end of 2010, let`s call it what it is. It`s Bush`s tax increase and nothing else, ok?
LOESCH: Why is it Bush`s tax increase? It would be Obama`s tax increase?
FUGELSANG: Because he designed it. Because no, sugar because Bush designed these tax cuts.
LOESCH: Excuse me, sugar? I`m sorry, did you buy me a drink and take me out to a movie, first.
FUGELSANG: Well, I was hoping you would be here in person, Dana. Ok so forgive me for that.
LOESCH: Because you know don`t call me sugar, you`re like, I think, I was still in high school when you were on -- when you were on VH1. So you`re a little old for me.
BEHAR: We`ve had 10 years of tax cuts and still no jobs. We`ve had tax cuts, tax cuts, tax cuts. The discrepancy between the very rich and the very poor in this country has never been bigger. You keep saying the same thing over and over again. It`s like Groundhog Day. I`m tired of that crap.
LOESCH: No, no. Tax --
LOESCH: Big government is expensive.
BEHAR: All right. We`ll be back in a minute. Take a break.
BEHAR: Part-time governor Sarah Palin seems to be showing which party she`s running for and it`s the party of Palin. She`s not just attacking Democrats but Republicans too. She dismissed the Ronald Reagan as an actor, calling the Bushes a bunch of blue bloods and blamed W. Bush for wrecking the economy.
I`m back with my panel.
Ok. You know, Dana, she`s the patron saint of the Tea Party of which you are a part, I presume, right?
BEHAR: What do you make of this assault on Republicans all of a sudden?
LOESCH: I think it sort of -- Sarah Palin really identifies I think with the grassroots movement that is taking place, within the right and even within moderates on the left as well.
And I thought the little back and forth that she had over the air waves with the Bushes was really interesting. Because the Bushes represent for a lot of people, including myself, the sort of Republicanism that we don`t like to see. We don`t like the old Belt Way big spender type of Republicans. I think for a lot of people they look at the Bushes as being representative of that. But I`m wondering too --
BEHAR: Maybe she`s ticked off because of what Barbara Bush said about her, that she should stay in Alaska. And maybe this is just personal retaliation, you know, because that`s what she`s about.
LOESCH: Well, or it can be they`re setting up for -- they`re trying to clear the way for Jeb Bush. He said no --
BEHAR: Clear the Bush for Jeb Bush.
LOESCH: Right. They`re trying to clear the way for Jeb Bush. Maybe this is going to be like a Jeb/Palin thing, who knows?
Well, Joe Scarborough, a very interesting conservative --
FUGELSANG: An actual conservative.
BEHAR: An actual conservative who things about issues I think. He calls Palin`s potential 2012 candidacy a dopey dream and it`s time for the GOP to man up and shut her down. Will they shut her down? Maybe they should send her hunting with Dick Cheney? Go ahead.
FUGELSANG: Well, I wasn`t surprised that Joe threw her under the dog sled this week. And Dana, I do want to apologize for calling you "Sugar" if you took offense. I`m half southern, it`s how we talk. So please don`t get the wrong idea about me.
LOESCH: I`m southern too. But I just --
FUGELSANG: But what he had -- here`s the thing about Sarah Palin. It`s the same week that Sarah Palin said she could have stopped WikiLeaks from happening. Sarah Palin couldn`t stop her own daughter`s baby-daddy from leaking in "Playgirl". Ok.
BEHAR: That`s true.
FUGELSANG: That`s not going to happen. But here`s the deal.
Sarah Palin is sort of like, to the GOP what Jar Jar Banks was to Star Wars Episode 1. In that --
LOESCH: No, no. That`s -- no, I disagree with that.
FUGELSANG: May I finish Dana please? Well, let me give you my point. She`s there to distract the easily amused from a complete lack of narrative.
BEHAR: That`s right.
FUGELSANG: Ok. She`s a shiny thing we wave. People like it. And the only people who want her to run for president are gullible conservatives, smart liberals and comedians like me.
BEHAR: That`s right. And me, too. I can`t wait to see that.
But I mean she call the family blue bloods.
FUGELSANG: She was right.
BEHAR: Well, but the thing about it is that George Herbert Walker at least is a -- was a veteran of World War II.
FUGELSANG: Sure. But he was also --
BEHAR: He was shot down many times.
FUGELSANG: He`s a millionaire at birth. His son was a millionaire at birth with a fake Texas accent. I mean George W. Bush went to Andover, Harvard and Yale.
BEHAR: And the same people who love Sarah Palin worshipped at the shrine of George Bush. Let`s get clear.
LOESCH: Oh, no, no, no. No they don`t. A lot of it. The very first people in fact that there were out there for the Tea Party movement, these were the people who were complaining about all of the poor under the last eight years, of which four of those were Democratic rule with Congress.
BEHAR: She told Barbara Walters that she could beat Obama. Is that chutzpah or stupidity?
LOESCH: Well, no. I don`t know if it`s -- I mean look -- you have to look at some of the polls that have been released from the past several months --
BEHAR: She`s going down, down, down, baby.
LOESCH: Neck and neck -- it either shows them neck and neck or showed her beating him because his unfavorables are really, really high right now.
FUGELSANG: So are hers in her own state. What Joe Scarborough --
BEHAR: Don`t you think that it`s not going to pay to attack Ronald Reagan in Iowa. I mean really -- St. Ronald Reagan of the Republicans.
FUGELSANG: She didn`t so much attack Reagan. And I`ll defend her on calling the Bush family blue bloods because they are. But here`s the thing --
BEHAR: Blue hair, I think she meant --
FUGELSANG: What Scarborough`s right about is that the GOP leadership are afraid to criticize her until she announces whether she`s running or not. Until then, no one`s going to stand up so maybe Scarborough`s running.
BEHAR: Thank you very much guys.
Back in a minute.
ANNOUNCER: Coming up a little later on the JOY BEHAR SHOW, Kate Gosselin says her kids weren`t expelled from school but were simply asked to leave. And Brandy drops by to talk about her very public admission that she`s been celibate for years. Now back to Joy.
BEHAR: Jennifer Lopez is trying to stop her first ex-husband from releasing sexy videos made during their short marriage. He even says there`s a video of J. Lo exposing herself. Great. As if J.Lo wasn`t already overexposed. Here now to discuss this and other important stories of the news are AOL pop eater columnist, Rob Shuler, actress and founder of the Diva Foundation, Ms. Sheryl Lee Ralph, comedian Carey Reilly.
OK. Ex-hubby number one, Ojani Noah. He says he had found a new video that shows J. Lo riding a scooter in public without panties and with her privates in plain view. It`s interesting the timing since she`s starting on "American Idol" like when, next month or something? What do you think about that? It`s a little sneaky, isn`t it?
CAREY REILLY, COMEDIAN: It`s a little sneaky. What was she, in her 20s? I mean, I wish someone had videotaped my va-jay-jay in my 20s.
REILLY: Before two kids who have been gorgeous.
BEHAR: How`s that then?
REILLY: Georgia O`Keefe would have not --
BEHAR: Wait a second. You don`t know that there`s one out about you?
BEHAR: I cannot believe it.
REILLY: I hope so. I want to see it.
BEHAR: Does anyone really care?
ROB SHULER, AOL POPEATER COLUMNIST: I used to work for Jennifer. She was the most controlling lady I`ve ever met. So, I think whenever she`s out of control, which is the circumstance that she probably is in now, she`s not that happy about it.
SHERYL LEE RALPH, ACTRESS: Or maybe she is control and she has timed this with her ex-husband that it should come out so that she can make the most of her assets.
RALPH: These are some big assets, baby. Come on, cash in on the assets. There you go.
RALPH: Come on, J. Lo. It must be J. Lo because Jam don`t shake like that. Thank you.
BEHAR: Very nice. I love that. That`s very good, Sheryl Lee. Now, but the guy is saying that he wants to make a movie about his life, and he needs this footage. First of all, who cares about his life? That`s number one. But he needs the footage. He has a right to make a movie about his life.
SHULER: Once they divorced and she became quite famous, she made him sign a confidentiality clause. So, this is on to that clause. So, I don`t know if this tape will ever be officially seen. However, as we know --
BEHAR: Maybe he wants money. What do you think --
REILLY: Are they having sex?
SHULER: No. They`re not having sex.
RALPH: Oh, no. That`s an ex for real.
RALPH: She`s very happy with the -- REILLY: I know you`re obsessed with this guy, the Marc Anthony.
RALPH: Give it to him. Hey, baby, baby. You know how much I love you. oh, Jennifer, baby. It`s the way that they talk sometimes. Got to have you, baby.
REILLY: I don`t want you talk that way too.
BEHAR: Does anybody -- we don`t know who has a sex tape in this group? I mean, really, do you guys have sex tape?
RALPH: No, no.
BEHAR: They all have one.
SHULER: Everyone is doing for themselves (ph).
BEHAR: Oh, I didn`t know that.
RALPH: I can say (ph) everybody wants to see themselves having sex.
BEHAR: I don`t know, but next story.
BEHAR: Comedian and former "Dancing with the Stars" contestant, Margaret Cho, has posted something very interesting on her blog. Ms. Cho said that Bristol Palin was forced by her mother to do "Dancing with the Stars." Let me read what Cho posted, Margaret Cho, all right?
"Sarah supposedly blames Bristol harshly and openly (in the circles that I heard it from) for not winning the election and so she told Bristol she owed it to her to do "Dancing with the Stars" so that America would fall in love with her again and make it possible for Sarah Palin to run in 2012 with America behind her all the way."
OK. Now, that is abusive.
REILLY: (INAUDIBLE) mother of the year.
RALPH: You`ll be great, Bristol. You`ll be swell, Bristol. We can have the whole place in a tea cup, Bristol. Mama`s got to win, Bristol.
BEHAR: Do you think that Sarah Palin is capable of such heinous behavior?
SHULER: The truth is that I think Sarah has admitted this that originally, they asked Todd. So, they asked Todd to do "Dancing with the Stars," and he didn`t want to do it. And maybe Mama Palin didn`t think he would be as good asset as Bristol. So, Bristol ended up -- but the original choice was Todd.
BEHAR: So, why didn`t Sarah do it?
SHULER: I think the --
BEHAR: Are you a lesbian?
REILLY: No, I`m not.
BEHAR: That`s two men that you don`t want to look at. Marc Anthony is homely. Todd is nothing to look at.
REILLY: I want to look at John Goodman, Joy.
BEHAR: John Goodman. Oh, now, you`re talking.
REILLY: He`s big, he`s hairy. He`s got unibrow. I like the man. I like the man.
RALPH: The one you can hold on to for real.
RALPH: And look, in this business, I`ll go with whoever I`m going to go with, Joy.
BEHAR: OK. All right. Wait, listen to what else Margaret Cho said - -
RALPH: Looking good today, Joy.
BEHAR: It`s the top.
RALPH: I know.
BEHAR: OK. This is another thing Margaret Cho wrote. "Instead of being supposedly handicapped by the presence of her teen mom/daughter, now, Bristol is going to be an asset, a celebrity beloved for her dancing."
The girl dances like she`s avoiding landmines. I mean, she`s not a good dancer. She is not going to be beloved for her dancing.
SHULER: But she did come across as rather sweet on the show.
BEHAR: Yes. I think -- this breaking news from Margaret Cho makes the mother look worse and makes Bristol look better.
SHULER: Sarah should be afraid of anybody. It`s not Obama, it`s Bristol.
SHULER: She`s the one that`s come out of this a hero.
RALPH: That`s all right. She`s going to come out and tell everybody she`s a Democrat.
BEHAR: Do you think --
REILLY: Well, I think a lot of shotguns in that house, right, up in Alaska?
BEHAR: Carey, that`s what I was going to say. Do you think Margaret Cho should watch her back now?
BEHAR: By the way, Brandy is coming on next after this segment, and we`re going to talk about it because she was on "Dancing with the Stars."
RALPH: There you go. I haven`t seen that child in so long.
BEHAR: Now, even though, Johnny Depp made millions for Disney as Jack Sparrow in the "Pirates of the Caribbean" franchised it first they weren`t thrilled because they thought the character was gay. I think they got nervous when the ship stopped in Key West. That`s just me. When they asked if the character was gay, Depp responded, didn`t you know that all my characters are gay?
RALPH: I love him.
BEHAR: So, is Jack Sparrow gay?
SHULER: Apparently so, and Disney didn`t know this. And that`s awfully surprising, so they just needed to look at the movie. And it wasn`t that hard, I think, to figure out it`s a gay pirate.
RALPH: I think that he`s an effeminate sort of British nobility, you know, that`s taken down just a bit. I don`t think he`s gay at all. I just think he`s a man that loves to talk like this.
REILLY: What have you done to Disney?
BEHAR: This panel is out of control.
REILLY: Disneyworld is very gay.
BEHAR: Very gay.
REILLY: It`s a big musical theater.
RALPH: That`s one of the happiest places in the world.
REILLY: The only people with a problem with this is the marines. Don`t ask, don`t tell. They don`t want to know about it.
BEHAR: All the dwarves were gay, only two were just curious. Trust me.
BEHAR: And Little Mermaid, not for nothing, another lesbian.
BEHAR: Now, you know, Disney makes lots of money, you know. So, why would they care? Why do they care?
RALPH: They have gay days and everything. It makes absolutely no sense. I love Disneyland, I love Disneyworld, and I always thought of them as one of those places that loved everybody.
RALPH: So, for them to be questioning whether this wonderful character is gay or not, it`s like, look, Disney, you don`t ask, he doesn`t have to tell. We`re all having a great time.
BEHAR: OK. You know, now, here`s an interesting fact to us. The film`s writer says the role wasn`t intended for Depp but first it was intended for Hugh Jackman.
RALPH: Is he gay?
REILLY: He`s a theater (ph) guy.
BEHAR: He was hosting the Tony`s that night.
REILLY: There you go.
BEHAR: So, could the movie have been better with Jackman? I love Hugh Jackman.
RALPH: Oh, he`s so hot.
BEHAR: Do you like him?
REILLY: Yes, because --
BEHAR: Oh, thank God. One guy she`s attracted to.
REILLY: Puts his dirty socks on the couch. That`s what I want. I can smell them across the room. You`re a little too pretty. You probably have cologne on. That`s a little pretty.
BEHAR: OK. We have time for one more story. Moving on. You may recall the story about the two of the Gosselin kids taking an involuntary break from the classroom, but mother Gosselin is now saying they weren`t expelled. She says the school didn`t feel they could meet the children`s needs anymore. So, it was decided that they should leave, which is exactly what happened to me when I got fired at "Good Morning, America." They said we can`t meet your needs. Get out.
BEHAR: That`s exactly what they said to me. Do you think --
RALPH: Well, that was a great thing for you because look at you now.
BEHAR: It`s true. They take credit for firing me.
(LAUGHTER) BEHAR: Do you think that the kids` problems started when she was on "Dancing with the Stars?" or when was she home?
SHULER: Right. But I think the kids` problems probably started when they were born and this show happened. Like the show has been very destructive for these children.
REILLY: But there`s eight of them. Two out of eight, not so bad.
REILLY: If two go down, you`ve got six more.
REILLY: I mean, it`s two become --
REILLY: We`re doing good. That`s why I only had two. Because I knew my odds were good.
BEHAR: You should have only the number of kids that you have boobs.
BEHAR: That means if your husband is infantile, you can only have one child. Thanks, everybody. We`ll be right back.
BEHAR: Brandy is a Grammy winning R&B singer, an actress, a reality star, most recently a fierce competitor on "Dancing with the Stars." Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Carrie Ann Inaba.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: 10.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Len Goodman.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: 10
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Bruno Tonioli.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: 10.
(CLAPPING AND CHEERING)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That`s a perfect score.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: With me now is the very talented brandy. Hi, hi, how are you?
BRANDY, SINGER: I`m good. How are you?
BEHAR: It`s good to see you. You know, I`m watching those judges. You had a perfect score, 10, 10, 10 from those three. They`re very strict. And yet, you were voted off the next night. What happened? What do you think happened?
BRANDY: Well, I think that America, you know, has the power to vote. And I think that it was just my time to go. It was meant to be. But I had an amazing time.
BEHAR: No, no, no. It was not meant to be, brandy. No, no, no.
BRANDY: It had to be because it happened.
BEHAR: We`re wondering over year if Maksim Chmerkovskiy, I love to say his name, if Maksim Chmerkovskiy had something to do with it because he was mouthing off to the judges and maybe the audience out there turned on you because he was acting bad. What do you think of that?
BRANDY: Well, you know, you never know. But I can tell you that Maks is a very, very passionate person, and he was really taking up for me. He didn`t want me to be judged for something that he felt that he was responsible for. So, as a friend and as a partner, he was coming from a good place. You know, it didn`t come off that way maybe, but, you know, he did what he thought was best at the time.
BEHAR: No, I know. He meant well, but it might have back fired, I`m just saying.
BRANDY: He did. It might have but --
BEHAR: You shouldn`t have been kicked off. I mean, you were really very good.
BRANDY: Thank you.
BEHAR: And Bristol Palin had the lowest scores ,and some people think the tea partiers kept voting her in. Do you buy that?
BRANDY: I mean, honestly, Joy, I just try not to even think about it because it was hard enough for me being eliminated. I really, really wanted to go to the final. And I just try to keep everything in a positive light because I gained my confidence back. I believe more in myself. And that`s what I gained from "Dancing with the Stars." I can`t get caught up into all the rest of it because it makes your mind crazy, you know?
BEHAR: Yes. All right. I`ll stay on Bristol just for one more second because the information we`re getting from Margaret Cho who was backstage is that Sarah Palin really pushed Bristol to be on the show so that Sarah could enhance her image with the American people. Did you hear anything backstage that I could use right now?
BRANDY: I didn`t. Joy, I didn`t -- I didn`t hear anything. I was trying to stay focused on me and Maks, so we can, you know, do what we have to do on the dance floor.
BEHAR: All right. Now, let`s talk about your sex life for a second, OK?
BRANDY: My sex life?! Oh, snap.
BEHAR: Well, because you admitted on "Dancing with the Stars" that you haven`t had sex in, how many years, six or eight years?
BRANDY: Huh-uh. I never said that. I said I haven`t been with someone serious in six years.
BEHAR: Oh, so you`ve had casual sex? I see. OK.
BRANDY: You`re putting words in my mouth, Joy. You`re putting words in my mouth.
BEHAR: You know I love you, Brandy. You`re so adorable. And I`m just teasing you.
BRANDY: I love you too.
BEHAR: OK. Now, so, who have you been dating? Anybody we know?
BRANDY: It`s nobody you know. I haven`t really been on the dating scene in a long time. But on the new reality show with my family, "Brandy and Ray-J, A Family Business", you do see me open up and date here and there, you know, but these guys are just got shake my heads on these guys.
BEHAR: Why, they`re bunch of losers?
BRANDY: No. They`re not losers. But, you know, it`s all about the chemistry and it`s about the connection. And something about them all just seems a little bit off. Sorry to dish you guys on TV but -- yes, you`ll see it though.
BEHAR: I mean, a lot of women say that. That it`s very hard to find a guy. And all the good ones are either married or gay.
BRANDY: You know?
BRANDY: That sucks because I really -- I`m a relationship girl, you know. I`m hopeful romantic. I`m ready to experience that again, you know? It`s been a while for me. So, you got anybody you can hook me up with?
BEHAR: Well, I don`t know. Maybe. I can make a match here. So, what`s your type?
BRANDY: I like a guy that can make me laugh. Of course, he has to be smart, family oriented. I like them a little bit tall so I can wear my heels.
BEHAR: That`s right.
BRANDY: And he has to definitely love children because I have a daughter, and she`s everything to me.
BEHAR: So, he should be tall and funny? OK. Brad Garrett.
BRANDY: Driven. What`d you say?
BEHAR: Brad Garrett. Remember him? From "Everybody Loves Raymond." He was tall and funny. What about him? No, not your type. Would you go out with a sports guy, Brandy? How about a sports guy, a basketball player?
BRANDY: Of course, I will go out with a sports guy, a basketball player, yes. You know, it depends on the chemistry. I`ve actually dated a basketball player before. So, yes, that was fun.
BEHAR: Well, they tend to have a wandering eye, but who doesn`t?
BRANDY: They do.
BEHAR: Now, you mentioned that you`re a single mother with a lovely 8-year-old daughter named -- what`s her name?
BEHAR: Sy`rai? OK.
BRANDY: Sy`rai. Yes. Look at her. She`s so cute.
BEHAR: She is adorable. Oh, my God. She`s so cute.
BRANDY: Yes, thank you.
BEHAR: What is she playing with like shrunken heads? What are those?
BRANDY: Barbie dolls. The ones that come with, you know, the big face and all the hair so she can do a couple of hair styles. Yes.
BEHAR: She is gorgeous. Are you going to have any more?
BRANDY: Thank you. I would love to. I just have to find my significant other. Because, you know, you can`t -- you know. You can`t do anything without him.
BEHAR: You know what, Brandy, I meet a lot of people here, mostly losers, but still --
BEHAR: No, I`m kidding.
BRANDY: Oh my god!
BEHAR: No. I`m just kidding. They`re wonderful people come by here all the time. I`m going to keep an eye out for you, OK?
BRANDY: Please, Joy. Hook me up. I`ve been knowing you since I was, what 17? Come on, we`re family.
BEHAR: I know. It`s true. That`s true. OK. I`m going to help you. Now, because I know that you -- and you`re so talented, Brandy. I really think you`re terrific. And you started singing at the age of two. You released your first record at 15.
BEHAR: Now, that`s a tough road for a young person to have a career at such a young age. Would you like little Sy`rai to do that?
BRANDY: Actually, no. I want to keep her life as private and as normal as possible. This is one of the reasons why she`s not included in our family show because, you know, I just want her to have a normal life.
BEHAR: Yes, right. OK. That`s good. OK. Stay right there. I`m not done with you.
BRANDY: OK. OK. Good.
BEHAR: We`ll be back with more from the lovely Brandy in a minute.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BRANDY: A while back "Dancing with the Stars" called me and asked me to be part of their show.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m glad you came over. You have to make a decision today. The dancing just started. The agents have been calling me every hour.
BRANDY: I haven`t gotten back with them yet because I have concerns and I just don`t know, but I know I need to get back to them very soon. Honestly, I`m scared.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: That was brandy and her beautiful mom on the second season premiere of the VH1 show "Brandy and Ray-J, A Family Business." Your mother is so pretty. I see where you got your looks.
BRANDY: Oh, thank you.
BEHAR: Yes. Nobody spoke about the VH1 show little before. It`s a behind the scenes. Look at your family and your career. Your mom is your manager. Are there conflicts there at all?
BEHAR: Aha. Tell me about it.
BRANDY: Well, yes. We have our ups and downs, of course. You know, it`s kind of hard because sometimes emotional things can get in the way and personality conflicts because she is my mom. I am her daughter. So, sometimes the business can get lost a little bit. But, you know, we`ve been working together ever since I was 15. So, we`re used to going up and down. But I love her so much. She has my back. She`s passionate. I`m passionate. So --
BEHAR: How about your brother? I mean, any sibling rivalry with your brother?
BRANDY: No sibling rivalry, but you know, on this season, you see, you know, some of the choices that he makes, I`m not in support of. And you know, when you go down a road, you don`t want -- and when you make mistakes down that road, you don`t want your brother or somebody that you love to make the same mistakes you did. So, that`s what you see with him and I, but it`s no competition. It`s no, you know, jealousy issues or any of that. We never really had that issue at all. Thank God.
BEHAR: What kind of mistakes are you talking about, though? What do you mean?
BRANDY: Well, in terms of love and career. I just feel like both are very important. And Ray has a beautiful girl in his life that loves him for him. And that`s kind of hard to find in this industry. You know, people that love you for you and that are honest with you.
BRANDY: And then, you know, he has his career that he wants to focus on, but he wants to give that up to focus on his career, and I`m like, no, dude. You have to be able to do both because both are very important.
BEHAR: It`s hard to do, but you have to try and do it. And you know, speaking about your family, I read -- you really have a lot of relatives in the business. I read that Snoop Dogg is your cousin?
BRANDY: Yes, yes. I don`t know how you he`s my cousin, but I just know that he`s my cousin.
BEHAR: He is a riot, Snoop Dogg. He comes on "The View" all the time, and he has an entourage, about 20 people show up with him.
BRANDY: Oh, my God. He needs to feel comfort, you know?
BEHAR: Yes. He seems like tough, but he`s scared of his grandmother, he`s afraid of his mother. You know, I love him. He`s the funniest. He`s very sweet. Anyway, he released a song in honor of Prince William`s bachelor party.
BRANDY: I haven`t heard that.
BEHAR: YOU don`t know about it. I was wondering if you were going to do a track for Kate Middleton?
BRANDY: Really? You are hilarious.
BEHAR: See. I know all about Snoop and you don`t know anything about him, and he`s your cousin.
BRANDY: Yes, he`s my dog, and I don`t even know anything about him.
BEHAR: He`s your dog, but you know what? He may be your dog, but you`re my Brandy and I`m going to find a guy for you.
BRANDY: Awe. I know. They told me in that, you know, commercial break you were really scoping out the scene.
BEHAR: I am.
BRANDY: I`m excited.
BEHAR: OK. Thanks, Brandy.
BRANDY: Thank you so much.
BEHAR: Season two of "Brandy and Ray-J, A Family Business" premieres Sunday at 11:00 on VH1. Goodnight, everybody.