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Nancy Grace

Divers Search for Bodies of 3 Missing Michigan Boys

Aired December 02, 2010 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JEAN CASAREZ, GUEST HOST: We begin tonight with breaking news out of Michigan and Ohio. Three little brothers, just 5, 7 and 9, vanish without a trace, last seen with their father on Thanksgiving. The father claims he gives the little boys to a woman he meets on the Internet so he can go kill himself. But the suicide attempt fails. The father still alive. The boys still missing. And police cannot track down this so-called mystery woman. With hopes of finding the boys alive fading fast, police arrest the father, charging him with kidnapping his little boys.

Major development tonight. At this hour, multiple dive teams are scouring rivers and lakes all across Ohio`s Williams County. But the father`s sister says she`s been told the boys are safe. Is there a chance that they are still alive, or has the father confessed to murdering his three precious children?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Reports at least four dive teams now on scene, searching local lakes, trying to find three missing brothers. Reports now emerging that dad John Skelton has confessed to killing the boys.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The father of three missing boys.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Missing and presumed dead.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He is in jail.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: John Skelton was released from the mental health facility, immediately placed in custody by (INAUDIBLE) the FBI. (INAUDIBLE) for three counts of parental kidnapping.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Reporters caught up with him as he was being wheeled into jail.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: John, what did you do to your kids?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Fear the worst has happened to Andrew, Alex and Tanner.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Imagine your worst nightmare come true.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Now the father is in custody.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Statements that he`s made to investigators would indicate that it`s not going to be a positive outcome.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The search continues for the three brothers.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CASAREZ: Good evening. I`m Jean Casarez of "In Session" on the truTV network, in for Nancy Grace. Thank you so much for joining us tonight. Three little Michigan brothers last seen on Thanksgiving -- they vanish without a trace. Police arrest the father, saying, You have kidnapped your children. But now at this hour, professional dive teams are searching nearby rivers and lakes.

Let us go straight out to Christine Long, reporter with CNN affiliate WTVG. She`s at the search staging area. Christine, what`s the latest?

CHRISTINE LONG, WTVG CORRESPONDENT: Jean, dive teams have just called off the search for the night because of the darkness. They plan to be out on the waters again tomorrow. Now, I`m in Morenci. This is the fire station, the staging area for all the volunteers, for all the fire crews who`ve been searching all week. The dive teams are in Williams County, basically, just over the border into Ohio. They`re in Pioneer. They`re in Holiday City. These are small towns. And this story`s just breaking the hearts of everyone, everywhere, but the dive crews did not find anything today.

You had dive crews from Toledo, Ohio, from Angola, Indiana. They had two boats going through the waters. They pretty much relied on the sonar technology. But they didn`t pick up any objects, anything out of the ordinary that would cause the dive teams to get in gear and jump in the water to recover anything. So here we are, the end of day seven, dive crews have called off their search for the night. Still no sign of the missing Skelton brothers.

CASAREZ: What about the search on by land? That continued today also, correct?

LONG: Yes, we`ve had volunteers every single day, anywhere between 250 and 400 people coming out here. They come out here to the fire station. There`s all (ph) fire crews. They get paired up. They go in school buses with fire crews. And then they -- they`re searching everywhere in Williams County, along U.S. 20, basically, about 18 miles in Williams County and a little bit into Fulton County. And these people, they are dressing warm. They are walking along the roads. These are very rural areas, so they`re walking around ponds, around lakes. And again, still no sign, day seven, no sign of these boys, any clothes. They`re not recovering anything.

CASAREZ: You know, Christine Long, reporter from CNN affiliate WTVG, what struck me the minute you started talking a minute ago, you`ve got a coat on. You`ve got a cap on. What`s the weather like right now as they search for three little boys outside?

LONG: This weather -- it`s chilly. It`s very cold. It`s frosty. I`m in sneakers. All we`re doing is walking around every day, myself, my photographer, lugging all these cameras. And they have people here, people who can`t walk. People from the community are dropping off warm food all the time. So everyone here -- everyone is all hands on boards, trying to help the volunteers keep warm, stay full and just keep them looking for these boys. No one`s giving up.

The police chief, Larry Weeks (ph) -- he`s been saying based on the information he knows, he does not anticipate a positive outcome. He`s said this for the past two days now. But you talk to any these volunteers, moms and dads themselves, people from here who know the boys -- here everyone in Morenci -- it`s a town where everyone knows everybody. But people are coming from surrounding areas who don`t even know the family, and they`re not giving up hope. You look into their eyes, and they`re quiet and they`re somber. In the back of their head, they think maybe these boys are not alive. But they say -- one woman told me yesterday, this is the season of miracles, and somehow, there may be some way that these boys are still alive, maybe keeping warm somewhere, anywhere.

CASAREZ: Christine, you have painted such a picture for us of what is happening in that area.

To Alisa Zee, news director from Detroit Metro Networks. Talk to us about -- this is a border area between Michigan and Ohio. The search started in Michigan because that`s where the boys lived, but then it went to Ohio. Why?

ALISA ZEE, DETROIT METRO NETWORKS: It went to Ohio -- good evening to you, and thank you. It went to Ohio because it had been indicated that that`s where John Skelton allegedly drove and took his children in the family minivan.

CASAREZ: And due to cell phones, the pings? Is that what took them, or visually seeing that van in the Ohio area?

ZEE: Actually, all of the above, Jean. We were hearing that there were pings from the cell phone, and witnesses have come forward and said they believe that they saw the van. Nobody has said that they saw John Skelton, but there have been people who said they believe they saw the van in the area, as well.

CASAREZ: And we want to tell everybody that although the police chief said, We don`t think this will be a positive ending, he is refusing to say that these boys are deceased. Alisa Zee, news director, Detroit Metro Networks, is this still technically a rescue effort or a recovery effort, or are they just not saying?

ZEE: Really, they are not saying. As you said, Police Chief Weeks has said, We don`t anticipate a positive outcome. However, nobody has come forward and officially said it`s a recovery effort. So everybody certainly holds out hope. As we just heard, it`s a very close community. It is the season of miracles. The police chief has personal knowledge and has met the Skelton boys and is really holding out hope for a positive outcome, even though he really has said he doesn`t believe that`s the way this story is going to end.

CASAREZ: And John Skelton is housed in the county jail in Ohio right now on kidnapping, parental kidnapping charges. He is fighting extradition.

To Tom Wait, reporter, CNN affiliate WXYZ. There had been at least one search of the home -- this is the John Skelton home -- in Michigan. What are your sources telling you was found in that home?

TOM WAIT, WXYZ CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jean, in that home that we were told that they searched several times, actually, there were found little nooses. They`re not describing exactly how these were tied, how they were fashioned. But we are being told that several little nooses were found in the home.

I`m also told by sources there was no blood evidence found in the home, that they scoured it from end to end. They went back several times. I was there when they removed several boxes of evidence. I think I saw a computer sticking out of one of those boxes. At that time, they were trying to establish whether he had actually known a woman named -- another woman that he had said he`d left the kids with. That woman, of course, has turned out not to exist. Police had checked to see if he had an e-mail relationship with that woman. And as you mentioned at the top of the broadcast, that was established as a lie.

So they were looking to see if he had kept in contact with this supposed person that had taken the kids. That did not happen. They returned to the home earlier this week. They scoured it once again for evidence. There really wasn`t a whole lot inside the house, and that has been a really big problem for them. They were actually going back...

CASAREZ: Well, Tom, can I ask you...

WAIT: ... at one point, as well...

CASAREZ: Our sources are telling us that the young boys` three jackets were found in the home. Have you heard that at all?

WAIT: I have not heard that they were -- that the jackets were found in the home. I did hear that they were going back to the home to look for the pajamas, to see if their pajamas were in their home. And I did not get word if they actually found those pajamas. But the jackets obviously a key piece of evidence there because if the kids were out there and they don`t have those jackets, that would be a big deal.

CASAREZ: But your sources are telling you three nooses. Christine Long, back to you, reporter, CNN affiliate WTVG. What is next for this search?

LONG: Next for the search? Important to note that tomorrow marks the end, at 5:00 PM tomorrow, the end of the volunteer search. The police chief announced that a couple days ago, and that has upset quite a few of the volunteers who have been religiously coming out here every day, searching for these boys. They say if they`re willing to come out here, and there`s hundreds of them, they should be allowed to help, to go out and search.

But the police chief said right now, over the weekend, they`re going to sit down, assess what has been accomplished. Are they looking in the right places? They say they may make a call to the volunteers again in the future. But right now, they`re going to have authorities handle the search. They`re available -- they`re taking all the tips, and they`ll send anybody out. And there are so many volunteer fire departments in the area that are ready to go at a moment`s notice.

CASAREZ: And we`re going to talk to our experts about the volunteers being told, We don`t want you to search any more.

But first I want to go to the callers. We`ve got a lot of them. Lori, West Virginia. Hi, Lori.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi.

CASAREZ: Thank you for calling.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My question is, with -- why would CPS give the mother the kids when she had a history of (INAUDIBLE) 14-year-old? And another question I had was, did the father have medical issues or mental issues?

CASAREZ: OK. That`s a great question. Let me answer your first one. For everybody that doesn`t remember -- but Lori, you sure remember -- the mother is a convicted sex offender. When she was 31 years old, she had sexual relations, sexual contact, is what she pleaded guilty to, with a 14- year-old that allegedly was just doing some handiwork around the house. This is when she was married to another husband.

Why she got custody? Probably because the father took the kids to Florida, alleged kidnapping, shortly after the divorce was filed. He didn`t kill them, though. He kidnapped them. They were alive. That`s his conduct.

To Christine Long, reporter -- or let`s go to Alisa Zee, news reporter from Detroit. Do we know anything about his mental history at all?

ZEE: I really do not know anything about his specific mental history. We do know, however, that since he allegedly tried to commit suicide, he was under a suicide watch in a mental health facility before he was released and arrested and charged with these kidnapping charges.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A K9 unit and two carloads of officers on the grounds here at Camp Frontier (INAUDIBLE) where John Skelton may have spent time with his three sons.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re told Skelton told so many different stories and led those searching in so many different directions that cops simply don`t buy anything he says.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We should be prepared for some bad news.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There`s three precious, precious little boys.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Three missing little boys.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All brothers.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They are missing.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They vanished in Michigan after their father may have tried to kill himself.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hope is fading.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They`ve got to be found.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The police chief said this.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Imagine your worst nightmare come true.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) right in the heart.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Statements that he`s made to investigators would indicate that it`s not going to be a positive outcome.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And now the father.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: John Skelton was released from the mental health facility, and immediately placed in custody.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Charged with parental kidnapping, held on $3 million bond. He`ll fight extradition from Ohio.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What happened to Andrew, Alexander and Tanner?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CASAREZ: I`m Jean Casarez of "In Session" on the truTV network, in for Nancy Grace tonight. Multiple dive teams, professional dive teams from multiple states are working with authorities, including the FBI, tonight in Michigan and Ohio, that border area, to try to find these three brothers that have been missing now for a week, a week ago today.

I want to go back out to Christine Long, reporter, CNN affiliate WTVG, who is at the search staging area in Morenci, Michigan. Talk to us more about the divers because I know one of the bodies of water searched was the St. Joseph River, which is a very large body of water, but it is -- it does culminate with tributaries in that area. How many dive teams? How many divers? What did they do? Where did they go?

LONG: You had several dive teams, but it`s important to know is that two boats that they had, they were mostly in Williams County. You`re talking about the St. Joseph River. They had two boats go in there. We had a team from the Toledo Fire Department, also a team from Angola -- Toledo Fire Department in Ohio and a team from Angola, Indiana.

They were in there. They were relying on that sonar equipment. But as they combed through all of those areas, not only the river, but also lakes and ponds, they did not find a thing. None of the divers got in gear to jump into the water because the sonar technology did not detect anything out of the ordinary, any foreign objects or any potential victims in the waters.

One thing I think it`s important to note is this is pretty much the first day that they`ve had the dive teams out there. We`ve had volunteers, hundreds of volunteers every day walking along the rivers, walking along the ponds, but no one has gone in on the water with such equipment so far.

But again, end of day seven, and with the dive teams, they ended for the night without any sign of Andrew, Alexander or Tanner. But they plan to be out again tomorrow. Now, there`s no word on where they`re going to focus their efforts tomorrow. They`re still putting that plan together.

CASAREZ: All right. Thank you very much. To Michael Gast, who is with us tonight. He is the founder and trainer for the Academy of Police Diving, joining us from Miami. You just heard what Christine Long said. You are a professional diver. You can give us this guidance. They`ll be out again tomorrow when the sun comes up.

First of all, they said the sonar is what they use. What exactly is sonar? And is it what you use before you get in the water as a professional diver?

MICHAEL GAST, FOUNDER, NATIONAL ACADEMY OF POLICE DIVING: Yes, sidescan sonar, and it`s something that`s pulled next to or beside the boat. And it sounds out a sound wave in the water which echoes back any obstructions it finds. And then that gives them a primary target to be able to search. And if they basically just go over the bottom and it`s clear and there`s nothing too abrupt, that it would be a pass (ph) area and they`d clear an area.

CASAREZ: So is the sonar foolproof? If the sonar doesn`t show something, you don`t go down?

GAST: No, it isn`t foolproof. It basically comes down to the interpreter, what they`re seeing on the film, on the computer screen. The interpreter, the better skill he has and the more knowledge he has of how it reflects and everything, is going to give you a better target. But they`re probably looking for anything that`s different than just a flat bottom.

CASAREZ: And they can tell that through the sonar. I understand you brought a full dive mask with you, and also a regular dive mask so we can just see what it looks like?

GAST: Well, a full dive mask, because of the cold water up there, it`s better if you have a full mask and you`re encapsulated in a dry suit or a very thick wetsuit. And it helps you to be in the water longer and be able to take that cold. A regular dive mask just covers the upper portion of your face, the nose and the eyes, and you still get the cold on your face and everything. And it`s just very uncomfortable for divers. So hopefully -- plus, with a full mask, you`re able to communicate. This has a communication device which they`re able to talk to one another and be able to communicate with the people in the boat and expedite the search.

CASAREZ: All right. And we`re going to have more right on the other side of this break. You`re not going to believe some of the stories that are coming out about what John Skelton may have said he had done with the boys.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Dive teams now searching local lakes, trying to find three missing brothers.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police in Michigan are calling the father of three missing little boys a liar.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The credibility of which we cannot verify.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Investigators say the boys` father, John Skelton, apparently lied about giving them to a woman.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was all a lie.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Just because you lie about one thing doesn`t mean you lie about everything.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You think it`s a fake story, then?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We can`t confirm whether it is or not a fake story.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why would someone lie?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Bottom line, you lie because you don`t want to get in trouble.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CASAREZ: I`m Jean Casarez of "In Session," in for Nancy Grace tonight. The FBI is involved in this case. Dive teams from multiple states have been searching multiple bodies of water in Michigan and Ohio. Searchers by land have been combing the area. There are local reports that John Skelton confessed to the FBI that he had killed his three children. But his sister said, No way, I`ve spoken with him twice since he was arrested and he tells me they are safe, but won`t tell me where they are.

I want to go to a very special guest tonight. His name is Bill Foster. He is a friend of the Skelton family. He has been searching for these missing boys. In fact, Mr. Skelton -- Mr. Foster, I hear that -- that you are basically in charge of search efforts. Thank you so much for joining us tonight.

BILL FOSTER, FRIEND OF SKELTON FAMILY (via telephone): Yes. I`m not totally in charge. I`m kind of over the civilians, all the civilian volunteers.

CASAREZ: And what have you been doing? Where have you gone? Have you found anything?

FOSTER: Well, we -- you know, we -- any evidence we find, you know, we turn it over to the local authority. We`re on -- we`re looking on all kinds of recovery-type issues. You know, we have to go through all the woods thoroughly, abandoned houses, creeks, ponds. We`re looking in sewer tiles (ph), I mean, wherever anybody could hide anything or dispose of anything. We have a massive search going on here. But could I -- could I touch on another topic real quick?

CASAREZ: Sure.

FOSTER: Just for the public`s information. They`re not here. They don`t know Tanya Skelton. And it`s not taking sides with anybody, it`s just the truth, knowing both of them personally and knowing them three boys and as close as they are to me. But Mrs. Skelton did have a record, or does have a record, but that has nothing to do with this search. And with everybody bringing that up is totally irrelevant and it hurts our search efforts because, you know, John knew what she was when he met her. He knew what she was when he married her. And he knew what she was when he had three children with her.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Just 5, 7 and 9 years old.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Very desperate situation.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Last seen on Thanksgiving.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Doing whatever we can.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The boys may not even be alive.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The police chief in Morenci, Michigan, says he is not giving up on finding these boys.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Three missing little boys.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All brothers.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police in Michigan have said they fear the worst.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We do not anticipate a positive outcome here.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The divers, even using sonar equipment, searching for clues through the water.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They vanished in Michigan after their father may have tried to kill himself.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police say they told him he asked a woman to take his sons to their mother.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police and even the FBI unable to find that woman or confirm if she exists.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: At this point we have been able to eliminate the reported established relationship between Joanne Taylor and Mr. Skelton.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Dozens volunteers searching this tiny town for the little boys.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Groups fanned out to cover miles of land.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re not able to locate them.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Desperate search to find these three little boys.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CASAREZ: And search efforts are intensifying today for Tanner, Alexander, and Andrew. Dive teams out in force searching bodies of water, while at the same time local reports are saying that John Skelton has confessed to killing his little boys. One story allegedly that he said he killed the boys, wrapped them in sheets with a teddy bear, put them in an abandoned schoolhouse. That schoolhouse was checked. It did not have those three little boys.

I want to go back out to Bill Foster. You are a friend of the family, leading the civilian search efforts. Talking about Tanya Skelton, the mother of the three boys, has she joined in the efforts to find her three children?

BILL FOSTER, FRIEND OF FAMILY OF THREE MISSING BOYS: No, Miss Skelton, due to the media and her past and everything, she has chosen to stay out of it. We`re out there for her, everybody that`s here is out there for her. I mine, you have to remember, you would not want to come across anything if these were your children.

CASAREZ: I guess, Mr. Foster, one thing that everybody wants to know. Everybody pictures themselves, that if their child or their children were lost, you`d go to the microphones and beg anybody to help you. Why hasn`t she done that?

FOSTER: Because, you know, when they started bringing up her past and saying that -- trying to turn this on her, that John was protecting her -- protecting his children from their mom that is a child molester, that`s how twisted John is.

And it`s sad. I mean, everybody in the community knows she did her time for a crime. She follows the rules of the registry and stuff. You know, it`s irrelevant to what we`re here for. We`re here for these three boys, and obviously a sick husband.

Did we ever think he would do that? No. But there`s a chance, you know, one percent chance of searchers out there, and, you know, I have to thank the fire department, because I started out with 25 people and it grew to 400 plus. And without them, I`d be lost, you know? They`re a bunch of great guys. They put a lot of long hours in.

But a one percent chance, we`ll take it. We want to bring these boys home. We don`t quit.

CASAREZ: Alive. We want to bring them home alive.

FOSTER: Absolutely.

CASAREZ: To Kelly in North Carolina. Hi, Kelly?

KELLY FROM NORTH CAROLINA (via telephone): Hi, I have two questions. How do we get people together as a society to stop murdering these little children? Every night I watch your show it`s just sad, the one here in North Carolina, the one there. It`s awful.

My second question is, did the mother ever know that this was going to happen? Did she get any warning signs like, I`m taking the boys out on a trip? I`m doing something with them? Are there any warning signs at all that she got?

CASAREZ: I will tell you, Tanya Skelton is the one who called 911 immediately that she didn`t get her children back after thanksgiving night. So you have to credit her versus a Casey Anthony situation that took a month to contact authorities.

So Pat Brown, criminal profiler, author of "The Profiler." You`ve heard everything tonight. What are your thoughts?

PAT BROWN, CRIMINAL PROFILER: I want to comment on what this woman just asked, would Tanya have known? I don`t think anybody believes, no matter how personality disorders or narcissistic or psychopathic their spouse is, they never believe that they`re going to go to this level because remember, she spent time with him. He probably played with his boys, went out and pitched the ball to them, took them to school. She saw all those other things he did, and she can`t envision him doing that.

Do I believe he did it? Absolutely. I believe the police did interrogate him. I don`t know if he confessed outright, the nooses, I do believe he probably did do that to the boys, which is why they can`t say they`re dead, because there`s no blood evidence to prove they`re dead. They pretty much assumed this is what happened.

He`s bleeding them everywhere. He has no remorse, because he`s wasting a huge amount of manpower hoping they`ll waste their time looking in all the wrong places and won`t find his sons.

CASAREZ: There`s no forensic evidence at all. Cadaver dogs doing a hit on the van, his van. It`s in custody right now. They have it. There were reports that nooses were found. To Howard Oliver, Dr. Oliver, former deputy medical examiner, forensic pathologist out of Los Angeles, multiple nooses found at the home. Can you talk to us about a death via a noose? What is it like?

HOWARD OLIVER, FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST: It would probably be a strangulation type death. You would either choke to death because you couldn`t get oxygen, or if it -- the noose was tight enough around the carotid arteries, you would pass out.

CASAREZ: Is there suffering or do you just go to sleep?

OLIVER: If you cut off the carotid arteries there`s no suffering, you pass out and you don`t wake up. If the noose is drawn tight around the trachea where it cuts off the oxygen before you pass out, there`s a great deal of suffering as you try to get oxygen.

CASAREZ: To Barbara in New York, hi, Barbara.

BARBARA FROM NEW YORK, (via telephone): Jean, enough is enough. Too many precious children are being murdered by their parents, and we really shouldn`t even use that word "parent" because there`s so many wonderful parents in the world. But since this monster confessed, although his sister states he denied harming the boys, does this mean the remains will have to be recovered before they can charge him?

CASAREZ: Barbara, you have segued us into a death penalty case. Let`s go with the lawyers, Eleanor Odom, felony prosecutor, Peter Elikann, defense attorney and author of "Super Predators" out of Boston, and Peter Odom, defense attorney out of Atlanta.

Eleanor Odom, Michigan, no death penalty. Ohio, death penalty. If those children would be found in Ohio, that`s where they`re searching because the cell phone ping records show the van may have gone into that state. We`re looking at a triple homicide death penalty case, right?

ELEANOR ODOM, PROSECUTOR: Exactly. You have three young children. This has death penalty written all over it, there are aggravating circumstances, due to the young age of those children. If they`re found in Ohio, if there`s evidence to show that there was a murder committed there, you have the death penalty.

CASAREZ: To Peter Elikann defense attorney out of Boston. You don`t have to have a body to prosecute. But from what we know now in this case, I think they need a body, don`t you?

PETER ELIKANN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes, it`s really not clear. It looks like everything is leading to the idea that a murder has been committed. We haven`t quite got it nailed down. At least they`re holding him on the kidnapping charges. The kidnapping, that`s not his big problem. He could probably do a year each for the parental kidnapping thing. At least they have him held on a $3 million bail.

But they are waiting to find the bodies. They don`t have to have a body, but it helps a lot. You can prosecute somebody for murder without a body, but it really helps to nail it down.

CASAREZ: To Peter Odom. Here`s the one smoking gun, the nooses in the house. They can forensically test for DNA, if you have the DNA of three little boys on three different nooses?

PETER ODOM, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: That would be a very, very difficult fact for the defense to overcome. I think it would probably make the case head toward some kind of a mental illness defense.

And I have to agree with Peter Elikann, you don`t need a body to prosecute. If Ohio was going to seek the death penalty, it`s going to be important for Ohio to prove the exact circumstances of the death. To do so without a body would be exceedingly difficult. I don`t think they would be able to get the death penalty without having the bodies.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CASAREZ: Three Parental kidnapping charges one for each of his young sons.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: John Skelton claims he gave them to a woman he kept in touch with on the Internet.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The information we have does not indicate this is going to have a positive outcome.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The three Skelton brothers remain in grave danger. They`re missing.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Relentless in their search, resilient in their faith, volunteers braved much colder and windier weather today.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The dad tried to hang himself outside the family home.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He told police he wanted his boys out of his home and he did it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Skelton said he gave the boys to a woman named Joanne Taylor.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A reported relationship between Mr. Skelton and Joanne Taylor does not exist.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He lied about that?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Correct.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They found no evidence that such a woman even exists.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But it`s all, as they keep repeating, just to bring the boys home.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Searchers have been looking in fields and woods near the Ohio-Michigan border. What happened to Andrew, Alexander and Tanner?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CASAREZ: Tell everybody that Miss Superstar, that`s what I call here, Nancy Grace is going to be back on Monday. And I e-mailed her and I said, "are you resting"? And she e-mailed me back and said, "I`m trying." She`s convalescing but she will join you next week. I`m Jean Casarez of "In Session" in for Nancy Grace.

Divers and searchers will be back at it when the sun is up, by land, sea, river, by lake. And also even helicopters are up over that area searching for these three little boys. To Tom Wait, reporter of CNN affiliate, WXYZ, have you heard anything about the van of John Skelton that has been impounded by law enforcement? Has there been any type of hit by a cadaver dog, meaning a body was in that car?

TOM WAIT, REPORTER, WXYZ: Absolutely. From what we`ve been told, there`s been no hit from a cadaver dog in that van. Police just several days ago, were still asking for the public`s help in finding that van or at least having seen it between 4:00 and 7:00 a.m. on last Friday.

I want to go back really quickly to a caller`s question, it was from earlier, asking if there`s any way to predict if John Skelton would do something like this. There`s no way to say someone would do something like this.

However, I don`t think we mentioned yet, he did take the kids to Florida in September. And a court had to order him to bring them back to Michigan. So he certainly was taking some hostile actions in terms of the kids.

Back to the van, though. As far as I know, nothing was found in the van. They put out pictures of the van, and they were hoping someone saw the van. And in any of those areas whether that was south of the Michigan state line in Ohio or in the surrounding area. The hope was, if the van was seen in a certain area, maybe the boys would be found in that area as well.

CASAREZ: Tom, you brought up such an important point because he did allegedly kidnap his children, take them to Florida just a couple months ago, and that shows a pattern right there. But I`m saying that in the sense that the pattern is not doing harm to the children, but actually doing a process of taking them somewhere they shouldn`t be. So that is something that would fare in favor of the children being alive.

Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst and author of "Deal Breakers" joining us tonight from Los Angeles. You know, John Skelton has said that he tried to commit suicide. When he was in the mental hospital and released just a couple days ago, are they going to look? Are there tests you can do to see if it was a sincere attempt at suicide, or if it a consciousness of guilt because he actually killed his children?

BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST: Well, you can do a verbal interview and assess whether or not the person really wanted to do harm to themselves.

But I want to point out when you kidnap a child, you are doing harm to the child. It is never benign. And the fact that he kidnapped the child means that he wanted to control the children in order to punish his wife. That`s why men commit child homicide. It`s not because they resent the children, it`s not because they resent taking up the responsibilities of fatherhood. It`s because they have simmering rage and resentment toward their wives and they punish the children to get back at the wives.

And what happens to speak to your suicide question is at a certain point they know they`ve gone too far. And when they know they`ve gone too far, often they will kill themselves or make a dramatic suicide gesture.

But what they will have evaluated in the hospital is whether or not he had a plan, whether or not he really wanted to do this, and whether or not he was preparing to be deceased. I think this was probably just a very disorganized attempt to gain sympathy.

CASAREZ: And that`s the question. To Alicia Zee, news director, Detroit Metro Networks, have you heard anything in regard to at all John Skelton and what his mental state is at this point? Is he in protective custody? What`s going on at the county jail in Ohio?

ALICIA ZEE, NEWS DIRECTOR, DETROIT METRO NETWORKS: I have not heard specifically. He has not spoken with authorities since he was appointed that court attorney yesterday. So there`s been no direct contact with the police via his verbal cues --

CASAREZ: You know, I need to stop you for a second. Look at the screen. What is he wearing in that wheelchair as he`s being carted into the courtroom?

ZEE: I was wondering that myself. The apparatus over his shoulder, Jean, is that to what you`re referring?

CASAREZ: Yes.

ZEE: I`m not certain.

CASAREZ: Half dressed.

ZEE: I`m not certain what that was, he was half dressed. His ankle was bandaged. It was a very bizarre presentation.

CASAREZ: We`ve heard it`s a suicide outfit. But you would think they would bulletin it in the back or something, instead of keeping it open.

Let`s go to Jessica in Maryland. Hi, Jessica.

JESSICA FROM MARYLAND, (via telephone): Jean, I hope you`re doing OK, and I can`t wait to see Nancy Grace again.

CASAREZ: You`ll have her on Monday.

JESSICA: This is just -- I`m sorry, I hate to say -- I feel so sorry for this through this. But do we know, these children, the last time they were seen, they were outside of their father`s house in the backyard. Did anybody see them?

CASAREZ: Yes. That is the question. Tom Wait, take us back to the very beginning. We had heard they were last seen on Thanksgiving afternoon. What time and by whom?

WAIT: Sure. And one thing I just want to go back to, you were just talking about the suicide situation. My sources say he never actually attempted suicide. They never found any bruises on his neck. If he tried to tie a noose around his neck they would have found bruising.

That has not been officially released. That`s what one of our sources is telling us. A couple of our sources are telling us that.

Going back to last Friday or Thursday when the boys were last seen it was in the backyard. They were playing in the backyard, a neighbor saw them around 5:00. They were not seen after that.

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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No established relationship.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now even the FBI unable to find that woman or confirm if she exists.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s devastating.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police say they remain in grave danger the longer they go missing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, they are working these areas today. As I said all along, it`s not our intention to leave any stone unturned, any area in which he potentially had traveled to or been to. We want to as thoroughly and best we can eliminate any possible areas in which they`ve been.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CASAREZ: Look at those little boys. Do you see those little boys? To Eleanor Odom, felony death qualified prosecutor -- John Skelton tonight sits in a jail in Ohio. He`s been charged in Michigan with parental kidnapping but he was arrested in Ohio. He is fighting extradition. In other words, he`s saying I`m not going back to Michigan. You got to force me. That never works, Eleanor. Why is he doing it?

ELEANOR ODOM: It`s just a delay tactic, Jean because that`s all he`s got right now. Because the only thing the prosecutors have to prove that extradition is that he is John Skelton.

CASAREZ: Right.

ELEANOR ODOM: There is nothing to prove as far as the facts of the case. He is off to Michigan pretty soon.

CASAREZ: That`s right. To Marian in Louisiana, good evening, Marian.

MARIAN FROM LOUISIANA, (via telephone): Good evening. I was wondering if they checked for skin tissue on the nooses found in the house.

CASAREZ: It`s a good question. To Pat Brown criminal profiler -- charges have not been filed yet. Discovery has not started. We don`t know what the investigation is doing, but obviously looking for DNA on those nooses is critical right?

BROWN: You would think they would be looking for that because that would give them some proof he did something to those boys. And one thing about that suicide attempt, that is just the most bogus thing I`ve ever heard. It is very easy to actually kill yourself with a hanging, you know. He could have done it if he wanted to and obviously didn`t.

CASAREZ: It`s consciousness of guilt quite possibly.

BROWN: I don`t think he has any conscience there. He has no guilt. He`s setting up an insanity plea and that`s all there is to it.

CASAREZ: And tonight, let us stop to remember Army Sergeant Anthony Paladin, 26 years old from Younkers, New York, killed in Iraq. He was on a second tour of duty. He was awarded the Bronze Star and a Purple Heart. He also served in the marines.

You know what his favorite meal was? It was pork, rice and beans, and potato salad. He loved dancing and he loved spending time with his cousin. He leaves behind his mother, Maria, his aunts Elva and Carmen, his brother Chad. An army major, Anthony Paladin, an American hero.

Thank you so much to all of our guests and to you for being at home watching us tonight. We want to wish a happy birthday to Missouri fan Keith. He is a federal corrections officer. He loves reading, the movies, and, guess what, watching Nancy Grace on "The Nancy Grace" show, his beautiful wife Stephanie and their dogs. Happy birthday, Keith.

We will see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp eastern. Goodnight, everybody. And goodnight, Nancy.

END