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President Obama Defends Tax Cut Deal; Can Tax Deal Get Through Congress?; Interview With Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders; VH1 Casting New Reality Show Featuring Plus-Sized Women

Aired December 07, 2010 - 15:19   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Well, you heard it right there, President Obama defending this tax cut, this agreement he has now struck with the Republicans.

And if this deal holds up, your taxes, my taxes, they will not be going up come January 1. In fact, they just might be going down.

But there is a little something that goes up, ah, yes, the national debt. That bothersome number we say we're concerned about, it will rise by nearly half-a-trillion dollars as a result of this tax deal.

Hi, everyone. I'm Brooke Baldwin. Welcome to the CNN NEWSROOM.

We're going to break it down for you this way. I'm going to show you what the president gave the Republicans and what he got in return to make this deal happen.

Here's what the president is getting. Follow me here with these numbers. And you heard about this: 12 more months of benefits for Americans unemployed. Total cost there, you see the big number, big bright yellow, $57 billion.

Now, he is getting this, too, an extension of some of the tax breaks included in that stimulus program -- total cost of that, $40 billion. Now, this one definitely came out of nowhere. This was a bit of a surprise today. Take a look at this, a cut in the payroll tax, big surprise, huge gift to everyone, you know, collecting a salary. And we're going to talk a little bit more about that.

But I want to take the turn to Republicans. Here is what they get. Here's the big one: tax cuts for the wealthy, the top 2 percent, two more years of tax cuts for them, total cost there, $75 billion.

And take a look at this one with me, breaks on inheritance taxes. That's another big one, $88 billion.

And that is how the deal went down. And, as you have definitely heard, you know, by now, a lot of Democrats are saying the president, he gave away the farm, broke promises. And they're not happy. Some of them are outraged, which leads to this question.

Can this thing, this whole deal actually get through Congress? A short time ago -- there he is -- the vice president turned up on Capitol Hill to meet with some of the Senate Democrats. And you would imagine --

(LAUGHTER)

BALDWIN: -- Mr. Biden got a bit of an earful as well.

Brianna Keilar been covering the story for us on Capitol Hill.

And here is one of the questions, Brianna, of many. Are the Democrats up there angry enough -- and it's -- it's important to say it's not just, you know, the liberal Dems -- it's the moderate Democrats as well -- are there big enough numbers to potentially block the deal on taxes in this lame-duck session?

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, and -- and that's what we're waiting to see as it shakes out. But, at this point, Brooke, there are not -- you know, it's looking like there is a whole lot of problems for President Obama when it comes to Democrats, Senate Democrats, especially, we have been talking about as they're back here on Capitol Hill.

Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid came out to the microphones, note, during President Obama's press conference --

BALDWIN: Though.

KEILAR: -- sort of going head-to-head there, making it clear that even he personally wasn't signing on to this deal.

And what we're hearing from Democrats in general in the House as well is, this is an agreement between the White House and Republicans. We are not on board.

And Harry Reid was promising that there are going to have to be changes before Democrats can sign on. But take a look at this. Republicans, where do they stand on this? We heard from Mitch McConnell, the top Republican in the Senate, saying that he thinks most of their conference is going to be able to sign on to this.

And I spoke with one senior Republican aide who told me that they're only expecting to lose a handful of votes when it comes to Republicans. So, the White House doesn't need all of the Democrats. And, certainly, we are expecting that they will lose some of them. It's just a matter of how many they can lose and still put this through Congress.

BALDWIN: So, Republicans, more or less, good with this particular agreement. You mentioned Harry Reid, interestingly, speaking mid-speech, saying he's not totally signing on, not willing to fully push this through.

So, I guess, given all of that, Brianna, this may be a reach, but, I mean, can we even think about a time frame possibly for pushing it through the Senate and then I imagine the House? KEILAR: Well, there could be a lot of different steps, but there is the deadline here, because, at the end of this month, you have got millions of Americans whose unemployment benefits are going to expire.

And that extension of unemployment benefits is in this deal. Then you also have the Bush era tax cuts that are set to expire. So, obviously, the deadline would be the new year. And, of course, Congress tries to get everything done before Christmas, right?

And they -- they do, generally speaking. So, those are really the deadlines. But, in terms of when this is going to the floor, we're not sure. We do know that the Senate is going to go first, but we don't know the exact timeline -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: Got it. We know you will be watching and waiting for it, as we all are.

Brianna Keilar for us on the Hill -- Brianna, thank you.

And, you know, so we know Obama is willing to break some of his promises to reach this tax cut agreement. And who does that anger the most? The liberals.

Enter Senator Bernie Sanders. We're going to add him to this conversation next. What's his take on this whole thing?

And while we're talking about the deal, the big deal here on Capitol Hill, there is one part of this we have not yet discussed: your paycheck -- payday about to change for you. And some people, this could be pretty significant. Poppy Harlow, she's going to join me next to explain what that means for you.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: All right, back to the president.

Here he is just a short time ago. In a moment, we will show you the president saying he was basically out of options. He had no choice but to give the Republicans their tax break for the wealthiest, you know, the top 2 percent, so that the rest of the country could have their own tax break as well.

Here he is, Mr. Obama.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: I will continue to fight before the American people to make the point that the Republican position is wrong.

Now, if there was not collateral damage, if this was just a matter of my politics or being able to persuade the American people to my side, then I would just stick to my guns because the fact of the matter is the American people already agree with me. I mean, there are polls showing right now that the American people for the most part think it's a bad idea to provide tax cuts to the wealthy. But the issue is not me persuading the American people; they're already there. The issue is how do I persuade the Republicans in the Senate who are currently blocking that position. I have not been able to budge them, and I don't think there's any suggestion anybody in this room thinks realistically that we can budge them right now.

And, in the meantime, there are a whole bunch of people being hurt.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Joining me now from Washington, Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont. He is a progressive independent who caucuses, votes with the Democrats.

And, Congressman, what is your reaction to the president saying he doesn't want to continue this protracted political fight; he wants to do what's best for the American people?

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I), VERMONT: Well, we all want to do what's best for the American people.

And, in my view, it is a moral outrage that the Republican Party is holding -- at a time when the middle class is collapsing, that the Republican Party is holding hostage millions of Americans who desperately need an extension in unemployment compensation and their tax breaks.

Where I disagree with the president --

BALDWIN: Now -- now, you -- you say it's a moral outrage. You were sort of going along the same hostage analogy as did the president, essentially saying the Republicans were keeping the American people hostage, but he didn't want to harm the hostages, the American people.

Do you not -- do you see it that way at all?

SANDERS: Well, what I can tell you is, I come from a small state, the state of Vermont. We have received 600 phone calls today alone, people saying the president's strategy is wrong, that our job is to convince a handful of Republicans that it is wrong to give tax breaks to billionaires, make our national debt even greater, and not provide extended unemployment to American workers.

So, I think we have the American people on our side. What we have got to do is rally the American people, have them call up their Republican senators and say, Senator, you can't give tax breaks to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars a year, to hundreds of thousands of dollars a year, to people who don't need it --

BALDWIN: But, Congressman --

SANDERS: -- when the rich are already getting richer.

BALDWIN: Congressman Sanders, he -- you know, you listen -- SANDERS: Senator, by the way.

BALDWIN: Senator Sanders.

You know the president said he had to do this for the sake of the American people. If he let all of this continue to the -- the extensions run out, that would then mean a lot of hardworking Americans, their taxes would be going up, two million Americans would not get unemployment benefits.

I mean, just -- just for the sake of playing devil's advocate, if --

SANDERS: Look --

BALDWIN: -- you put yourself in the -- in the president's shoes, do you not see it from his perspective?

SANDERS: The Democrats control the White House, the House of Representatives today, and the Senate.

What is blocking us from protecting the middle class and not giving tax breaks to billionaires are a handful of Republicans. In the next couple of weeks, I honestly believe that the American people are prepared to tell Republicans, don't hold the middle class and the unemployed hostage in order to give tax breaks to billionaires.

So, I think, of course the president is right. We have got to protect the unemployed and the middle class. But I think we can do that by rallying the American people, and not giving tax breaks to people who don't need it, and driving up our $13.7 trillion national debt.

BALDWIN: Senator Sanders, I have heard you do plan to filibuster. Is that still your plan?

SANDERS: I am going to -- I think this is a very bad agreement. I think the vast majority of the American people do not agree with it. And I am going to do everything I can to defeat it so that we end up protecting the middle class and the unemployed and not drive up the national debt by giving huge tax breaks to people who don't need it.

BALDWIN: Senator Sanders, thank you for being live for us on Capitol Hill. Senator, thank you.

SANDERS: Thank you.

BALDWIN: And this came out of nowhere. You ready for this? Have you heard about this? If you draw a paycheck, you just landed yourself a huge Christmas present, Hanukkah present, a gift for you that you didn't even ask for. Not kidding about this. This is part of the tax cut deal, totally unexpected.

Poppy Harlow is joining me now in New York. Poppy, talk to me about this cut in the payroll tax. A lot of ears perking up right now on this one. POPPY HARLOW, CNNMONEY.COM: He first addressed this when he spoke at 6:30 last night hinting that there had been a deal reached, the formal announcement coming today. This is a payroll tax cut of two percent. It is new. It's not part of the Bush tax cuts.

And here's how it works. Basically it goes to fund Social Security which we all know is in a state that may not be fully funded in a matter of years. So right now you pay 6.2 percent of your wages up to $106,000. Next year you're only going to pay 4.2 percent. There's the two percent cut.

But here's why you care. Say you make $40,000 a year. This means you save $800 a year. If you make 60k, you'll save $1,200 a years. $100,000 a year, you save $2,000.

Now, again, I said this applies only to the first $106,000 or so that you take in. So if you have make a lot more than that, this isn't going to mean a tax cut for that amount. So the maximum savings, Brooke, for someone even on the high end is going to be about $2100 a year.

But that's more money in people's pockets. The president's argument here, that is going to mean people will have spend more and stimulate this economy.

Here's an important side note. It's only for workers. Employers will still pay the full tax toward Social Security. The cost as you put up on the screen at the beginning of this to the deficit, which we were just focusing on last Friday on cutting the deficit, the cost what this adds is $120 billion.

Now, what this does also is this replaces what you may have heard of, the "making work pay" tax credit. We had that last year. That was $400 per worker and it was phased out for people making more than $75,000. This replaces that and is larger than that and more generous and it affects more people. If this gets through congress, this means their paychecks will be a little bit bigger.

BALDWIN: The hope with more money in the pocket that will help be used to stimulate the economy. That's the argument. Poppy Harlow, thank you.

Totally switching gears, let's talk about Elizabeth Edwards. She was told additional cancer treatments just won't help. What is it like for her now at home in North Carolina? She's surrounded by friends and family including her estranged husband John Edwards. He's home as well. We'll talk to a family insider. That is ahead.

And our conversation about this tax cut deal continues. Jessica Yellin is up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Welcome back to the newsroom. The president just gave a pretty spirited defense of his tax cut deal with the Republicans. But it sure does sound like a broken promise on both sides of the aisle. And face it, the reality is he's not only -- he's not the only one who is breaking a promise on this.

Jessica Yellin is our national political correspondent. Jessica, do me a favor and just walk us through this, will you?

JESSICA YELLIN, CNN NATIONAL POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: First of all, let's remember what the president said on the campaign trail and even more recently than that. I think we have sound of the president vowing not to reenact President George W. Bush's tax cuts. Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Ending the Bush tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans.

It means letting the Bush tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans expire.

We're going to roll back the Bush tax cuts to the top one percent.

We have to roll back --

I want to roll back --

I'm going to roll back the tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans.

-- for the wealthiest Americans.

-- for the wealthiest Americans.

It is true that I want to roll back the Bush tax cuts on the very wealthiest Americans.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

YELLIN: So I'm not sure you got that there. During the campaign he frequently said --

BALDWIN: I think I got it.

YELLIN: You got it. It was a centerpiece of his campaign. And I was following him through all of those states and we heard it at every single stop that I can remember covering him during that campaign.

So will this come back to haunt him? The White House will take the position that they had no choice, as you've heard the president say, and will try to slam Republicans going into the 2012 campaign for putting Washington in the position of having to reenact Bush's tax cut plan.

But the problem is as I'm sure you know and everyone has been discussed this, he's been so vigorously attacked by the left by Democrats over this, that that will be a hard message for all Democrats to carry going forward. BALDWIN: Not just the far left but the middle left as well.

YELLIN: Good point.

BALDWIN: It's not just the president as we saw in the montage breaking a promise. It's also -- correct me if I'm wrong -- the Republicans breaking a promise as well.

YELLIN: Yes. OK. So we also had a montage of the Republicans, we but don't have it right now. So let me just give you a picture of it. It's a lot of Republicans going, "One of our top priorities will be to cut spending in the new congress. We're going to cut spending. Let's cut spending, mo nor spending." You got the idea?

BALDWIN: Got it.

YELLIN: Then they came back and the first act in the lame duck session is to pass a package that increases spending dramatically. And so that is going to be a very difficult contradiction for Republicans to square. On the one hand they want to ensure these tax cuts go forward. On the other hand, they don't want to talk about how it's going to be paid for. Expect the Democrats to try to stick that to them in the upcoming campaign in 2012.

BALDWIN: I want to bring in John Avlon, the senior contributor also with dailybeast.com. And John Avlon, I don't know if you heard my conversation with Senator Bernie Sanders earlier. He called this whole deal, his words, a moral outrage. So do you think, John, that the liberals are being too rough on the president?

JOHN AVLON, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, they're definitely spoiling for a fight. They feel betrayed to a certain extent by this president. At this moment they feel the poker playing he's done with the Republicans hasn't been sufficient in terms of defending their interests.

That said, I think the president at this point is acknowledging the results of this election. He's trying to lead from a point of let's see where we can come forward together to put forward a proposal so the vast majority of American people don't see their taxes go up after new year's day. There will be a fight from the left of the Democratic Party.

When he announced this proposal last night, that was already in the cards. Whether it's enough to stop the whole compromise, that's where the really delicate dance and game goes today. This is all still unfolding in real-time up in Washington.

BALDWIN: John Avlon -- go ahead, Jess.

YELLIN: One other thought is what's fascinating if you listen to it, the president's greatest anger was with his own party. When he talked about the Republicans he seemed calm. When he talked about the Democrats he seemed enlivened and enraged.

And even if the package passes that is going to be a problem going forward. There seems to be growing and very real tension between the White House and some of the members of their own party. They're at a bit of a loggerheads which could last a while.

BALDWIN: Which makes it interesting, John Avlon, come 2012.

AVLON: It not only makes it interesting. I think it's actually a strategic asset in the long run. The president needs to declare his independent from the liberal Democratic base to help reconnect with voters in the center and independents in particular. So it's not the worst thing in the world --

YELLIN: That's what you'd like to believe.

BALDWIN: Jessica Yellin?

YELLIN: The Democratic Party will see it differently. John Avlon has a specific point of view. He wants to see the center come together in a strong way. And Democrats who are on the left and not quite to the center will see it very differently.

BALDWIN: Jessica Yellin, John Avlon. I like having you both on at the same time. Let's remember this. Love it. Thanks to both of you.

Meantime, a high speed chase. This one is in Nebraska, takes police on this wild ride. But wait until you see who is behind the wheel. That is ahead.

And the leader of WikiLeaks is arrested. There he is, Julian Assange. He was also denied bail this morning. He's now fighting extradition to Sweden to face those rape allegations. We're going to get that report next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: The pressure is on for WikiLeaks. There are all kinds of developments on the story today, the biggest one being that WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange is now sitting in jail.

Assange turned himself in to London police this morning. He was arrested on a warrant from Sweden. And that is where he's wanted right now for questioning about these allegations that he sexually assaulted not just one but two women last August in Stockholm.

Assange has already appeared in court. I want you to see this. I want you to look at the mob scene outside the courthouse today. Just watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Move back! Now!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Move back, please. Be fair to the gentleman. He's said all he's going to say.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Calm down. Sir, calm down. Calm down.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: The masses, the yelling, a bit of shoving. You saw the guy with the gray hair. Look at that, the camera going down. That was British film and TV director leaving the courthouse. He's one of several high profile and wealthy supporters -- there he is -- who offered to guarantee bail for Assange.

Another of his supporters, Australian investigative journalist John Pilger based in London, he is one of Assange's friends who believes the sex allegations is all a ruse. Listen to what he said outside the court today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN PILGER, JOURNALIST, ASSANGE SUPPORTER: In the United States, they teach their children about Thomas Jefferson every day. And Jefferson said that information is the currency of democracy. Without it, we don't have it. WikiLeaks has been giving us loads of information, and information to which we have a right.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Now, inside the courtroom -- and we just have sketches for now -- Assange refused to agree to be extradited to Sweden. Despite all of those wealthy supporters offering to help bail out Assange, the judge said it would be too easy for the WikiLeaks founder just to run, so the judge ordered Assange to be held in jail until next Tuesday.

Talk about the crush of reporters outside that courtroom as Assange was hauled off to jail. He was hauled off in a high security van. Take a look at this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Move back! Move, move!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get back, everyone!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Move out of the way! Move back!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Did you hear that? I know it's kind of hard to make out among the shouting. But someone was shouting, "We love you, Julian." Assange's lawyer says the number of supporters at the courthouse today is the tip of the iceberg. Here he is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARK STEPHENS, JULIAN ASSANGE'S ATTORNEY: This is going to go viral. Many people will come forward to stand assurances for Mr. Assange. Many people believe Mr. Assange to be innocent, myself included. And many people believe that this prosecution is politically motivated.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: In today's hearing, the judge repeatedly said, this case is not about WikiLeaks. This is about the serious sexual offense allegations those two women have lodged against Assange.

Sweden's prosecutor also denies any political motive, and so far there's no sign Assange's arrest has triggered the so-called doomsday document. That is what Assange threatened to release if he was arrested, if he was harmed, or if this website WikiLeaks was shut down.

But the financial noose seems to be tightening around Assange and WikiLeaks. Their avenues for collecting donations are shrinking. We're hearing now Visa and MasterCard has cut ties to WikiLeaks and PayPal has already frozen WikiLeaks' account.

Here is one we have not seen yet on reality TV -- plus-sized ladies ready to party. Would you watch? Think about it. It's a casting call happening and it's trending. Brooke Anderson has that story, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Time for "Trending." Have you heard about this new show on VH1, it's a reality show. Apparently looking for plus-sized women ready to step out into the spotlight and shake up some old stereotypes.

Also, guess who is behind the wheel legally speaking. Lindsay Lohan.

It is Brooke and Brooke time. Joining me from Los Angeles is HLN host "SHOWBIZ TONIGHT" host Brooke Anderson. And Brooke, talk to me about the premise of this VH1 show.

BROOKE ANDERSON, HLN HOST, "SHOWBIZ TONIGHT": Well, Brooke, it's time to show the world that big girls have more fun. That is how the open casting call for a new VH1 docu-series describes the show. VH1 is looking for women who are at least 21 and appear younger than 35 who have got the quote, "style, sex appeal, and sass to get noticed without being a sample size."

So you've got to be hot, bodacious, voluptuous. You've got to be single. The goal here, Brooke is to portray the curvier women who are happy with their size, happy in their own skin, having a blast.

The show has no title yet. But many anticipate that it's going to be sort of a "Sex and the City" for fuller-figured young ladies. The casting call sheet ends with this, "Big girls don't cry, they freakin' party."

(LAUGHTER)

BALDWIN: So Brooke, is the message that, look, curvy ladies are fun and beautiful as well? Is that really what VH1 is going for, do you think?

ANDERSON: Absolutely. And I loved what you said, it's meant to shake up some old stereotypes, redefine our culture's standard of beauty, because they're looking for women who aren't aiming to change what they look like, like, the show "Bridal-plasty," which we talked about, but they're comfortable in their own skin.

BALDWIN: And quickly, Lindsay Lohan making news because she's driving again.

ANDERSON: Are you scared? It's only been two weeks, Brooke, since the Los Angeles county probation department restored Lindsay Lohan's driver's license. And apparently officials at the Betty Ford treatment center have also agreed to allow Lindsay back on the road.

There had been talk to the roads just would not be safe for Lindsay because the paparazzi would be trailing her at all times. So let's hope the roads are safe for the rest of us, now that she reportedly has the keys to the ignition.

We all remember her infamous dui arrest here in L.A. She pleaded guilty to DUI and cocaine possession. She will be in rehab until January, that's court ordered. But now she reportedly has more freedom to roam, when given the permission to do so. We have reached out to the Betty Ford clinic and her parents and we have yet to get a response.

BALDWIN: This is a good sign of her own health, that they're allowing her to drive and she's doing better.

ANDERSON: On the right track.

BALDWIN: Absolutely. Brooke Anderson, thank you.

You remember the Westborough church, that Baptist church that holds mock demonstrations near all the soldiers' funerals coast to coast? Now a former soldier who paid a very steep price is fighting back against the Fred Phelps plan, and he's in a bit of hot water over it.

And police get a huge surprise at the end of a high-speed chase. You get to see this one play out next. Stay there.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Parents, what would you do with your little ones if they did this? You know that saying on your rear view mirror that says "objects in your mirror not always as they appear"?

Take a look at this video with me. This officer is in pursuit of this car, and he thinks he is pursuing a drunk driver. But after topping out at 100 miles an hour, he gets the driver to slow down, he gets the driver to pull over. The whole show me your license and registration thing meant nothing to the driver. Why? Because the driver is 13 years of age. And not only that, that driver had three friends in the vehicle with him. Apparently this kid was out joyriding. Parents had no idea what was happening until they got that call. "Ma'am, this is the police."

Now this, a war vet turns the tables and goes after the controversial Westborough Baptist church for their demonstrations near soldiers' funerals. We'll tell you why he is facing punishment. That is ahead.

Also ahead, Gloria Borger is next with all the political news. Gloria is next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Gloria Borger has been following the tax cut debate all day long. Gloria join me from Washington. And this is a point our colleague Jessica Yellin brought up, the fact that when you watch the president, when he talked about the Republicans he wasn't that angry. But when he talked about the Democrats, that was when the anger sort of was shown. Did you see that?

GLORIA BORGER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANLYST: I did. And it was in that last question which was really quite revealing. And the word he used for his opponents and the liberal Democrats which would have been included among his opponents is "sanctimonious." You know, "You can't be sanctimonious."

And what I saw was this president mimicking Bill Clinton. I covered Bill Clinton when he had to readjust, and he played the adult, triangulating, remember that word, between the Democrats and the Republicans, and being the grown up in the house.

And I think today the president said, look, you know, I tried to do what I could get done. I didn't have the votes in the United States Senate. Even six Democrats had deserted him on a vote in the Senate over the weekend on this tax cut issue. So he said I did what I had to do for the American people.

So they got a stimulus package effectively that's almost as large if not larger I think than the first one they passed. And now he's got to move to phase two here, and I think that's going to be in the state of the union.

BALDWIN: When Harry Reid said, hang on a second, the deal is not totally done, what do you take away from that?

BORGER: I think he was listening to his caucus. You had the vice president up there today making his case, and I think Harry Reid is just telling the American people what he heard from his caucus, which is we didn't get what we wanted, we didn't get everything we wanted, he's hearing that from Democrats.

I think the Democrats in the Senate may be more willing to go along with this than the Democrats in the house. I talked to a senior White House advisor this morning who said to me as of this morning they believed this was still going to happen. But the last thing the president wants right now is for them to start unraveling this and to start, you know, fooling around with the delicate balance that he's reached. But, you know, you never know with the Senate. They could very well decide that that's exactly what they're going to do.

BALDWIN: And we know they're up against a deadline, they don't want to continue this thing go Christmas. So the days are ticking by. We'll have to wait and see what happens.

BORGER: Right.

BALDWIN: And then it goes apparently before the Senate and then the House.

Gloria Borger in Washington. Gloria, thank you.

BORGER: Sure