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Nancy Grace
Nancy Grace Viewer Finds Missing Salem 12-Year-Old
Aired December 13, 2010 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight, a miracle in the desperate search for a 12-year-old little girl in extreme danger. Cops head to upscale Salem suburbs and a beautiful home, complete with luxury pool, to find the 12-year-old`s mom dead inside the home.
Bombshell tonight, 12-year-old Brittany found alive. After watching extensive coverage, including photos and surveillance video, of Brittany`s disappearance here on our show, a viewer, Theresa Shanley, spots the 12- year-old girl. Along with her, convict 32-year-old Easley, all the way on the other side of the country, San Francisco. Her 911 call leads cops to a local Safeway grocery, where they find Easley, having altered his appearance to disguise himself, panhandling with the 12-year-old girl. Cops discover the Wal-Mart tent pitched nearby, the tent he had bought to go on the road, on the run with a 12-year-old girl.
Now Brittany`s set to be reunited with her father and her family in time for her mother`s funeral. Cops still not releasing 41-year-old Tina Smith`s COD -- cause of death -- at this hour. Easley behind bars in a San Francisco psych ward, the two-time divorced live-in, who Mommy meets on the Internet just months before she moves him into the home, tonight the prime suspect in Tina Smith`s murder.
And tonight, we obtain more surveillance video capturing Easley with the 12-year-old in tow there at a Virginia convenience store, Apple Market, buying gas and chewing tobacco. As we wait for formal murder charges to be handed down, tell me, why is Easley propped up in a psych ward, getting special treatment? And when -- when -- will he be brought back to Virginia for a date with another lady, Lady Justice!
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: This 12-year-old little girl, Brittany Smith.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Please.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Please.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Please give us a call.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Help us.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is with a tremendous sense of relief.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This bombshell right in front of our eyes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have located Brittany.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We are so thankful for everyone`s contributions!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A 911 call from a citizen.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Making this a national event.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The witness felt that they had seen the suspect on.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nancy Grace.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Nancy Grace.
GRACE: I`m Nancy Grace.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Nancy Grace.
GRACE: I want to thank you for being with us.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Television show.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And that`s how the person called 911, saying that these people were the ones on the show.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now that Brittany is safe.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She will be here to tell her mother good-bye!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They really turn their focus to finding out who killed Brittany`s mom, Tina Smith.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He`s a very good suspect at this time.
GRACE: I really believe that your prayers were heard.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And tonight, two Alabama toddlers, just 3 and 4 years old, vanish. We learn family, friends, neighbors say they haven`t seen the children for months. But nobody bothered to call police. And what do Daddy and stepmommy know?
Just in, the search for one of the toddlers, 4-year-old Natalie, comes to an end, her tiny remains found 30 miles north of Mobile, Alabama.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This little girl is 4.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Breaking news. Authorities have just found remains in a densely wooded area in Alabama, likely Natalie DeBlase.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Her brother just 3 years old.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s just human remains.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A sad development.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There`s no tissue or anything.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: On the search for two missing Alabama siblings.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just bones.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police say they`re directed to the spot by Natalie`s own dad, John DeBlase, who`s now charged with two counts of felony murder.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Home video and pictures show what look like happier times.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Stepmother Heather Keaton has just been extradited to the state of Alabama. Could the stepmom also face murder charges?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Bombshell tonight. There is a God! Twelve-year-old Brittany found alive. After watching extensive coverage, photos, surveillance video of Brittany`s disappearance here on our show, a viewer, Theresa Shanley, spots the 12-year-old girl, with convict 32-year-old Easley, clear on the other side of the U.S., San Francisco.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We have good news that Brit is safe.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have located Brittany.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The witness felt that they had seen the suspect on a NANCY GRACE television show. In this case, we believe that that is an accurate statement.
GRACE: Surveillance video emerges of Brittany and Mommy`s grown boyfriend at a local Wal-Mart.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It shows them walking through the Wal-Mart store and making some purchases and going through the checkout counter.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Observed a television show on CNN.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s a party atmosphere, believe me!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Everybody here is just elated. There`s so many tears, I`m afraid we may flood South Boston.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m happy. Believe me, I`m happy.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) suspect, and I would say he`s a very good suspect at this time.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are going to shortly be joined by the woman who cracked this case, Theresa Shanley out of California, who spotted the little girl, along with her kidnapper, a grown man, 32-year-old convict Jeffrey Easley, panhandling. There`s Theresa Shanley. We`re hooking her up right now.
But right now to Jean Casarez, legal correspondent, "In Session." Jean, why is he, Easley, propped up in a psych ward? Why isn`t he in Virginia having a date with Lady Justice in court?
JEAN CASAREZ, "IN SESSION": I don`t know why he is in a psych ward, but I can tell you his extradition hearing is set for tomorrow, 12:00 o`clock noon Eastern time sharp. It is not believed he`s going to fight extradition. The question is, when will additional charges be filed?
GRACE: We are taking your calls live. To Alexis Weed, on the story from the get-go. Alexis, how did he make it all the way across the country from Virginia to San Francisco without being apprehended?
ALEXIS WEED, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Nancy, what we`re hearing tonight is that police believe that Easley and Brittany would have left in that vehicle sometime after 9:30 in the evening, that they would have gone on Friday -- this is the day that Brittany was last seen on that surveillance video -- and would have driven cross-country. The car, Nancy, the mother`s car that they are said to have been using, that 2005 Dodge Neon -- that was found at a parking lot next to the San Francisco International Airport.
GRACE: And the tent, the blue tent we told everyone about, that was purchased, I believe, at that local Wal-Mart there in Virginia -- that was found pitched nearby. So he was living in a tent with this little girl, a grown man and this little girl sharing a sleeping bag in that blue tent? Where was it pitched, Alexis Weed? Let`s see a map, Liz.
WEED: Nancy, the tent is said to have been in a shrub area that`s about -- well, the way police said it, is within walking distance of this Safeway grocery store, where Brittany and Easley were eventually found.
GRACE: We are taking your calls live, including our special guest joining us tonight, Theresa Shanley. She is the citizen who called in to 911. She is the one that spotted this little girl, along with convict 32- year-old Jeffrey Easley, who had taken this girl. He is the prime suspect in the little girl`s mother`s murder, 41-year-old Tina Smith, murdered in her own home, the little girl missing. We find out that ever since back at Thanksgiving at a family get-together, relatives have been calling family and children services saying something is wrong with this relationship between this grown man and this 12-year-old, you got to go investigate. Guess what they said? They were having their Christmas party and they couldn`t answer calls.
Well, somebody picked up the phone and did something, and her name is Theresa Shanley. Ms. Shanley, thank you for being with us.
THERESA SHANLEY, NANCY GRACE VIEWER (via telephone): Thank you, Nancy.
GRACE: Ms. Shanley, what happened? Tell me when you first spotted the little girl.
SHANLEY: When I first went into the parking lot of the Safeway store, I thought to myself, Oh, great, panhandlers, and they bring a child with them. And it was a man and her -- and I guess Easley was the man, and her. So I got out of my car...
GRACE: Ms. Shanley -- go ahead. I was just going to ask you, what were they doing when you first saw them?
SHANLEY: He was just -- she was sitting down. He was just standing there. He was kind of moving around because it was cold and wet. It wasn`t raining, but it was real misty and dewy (ph) here. It was kind of cold. Not the cold they`d know back in Virginia, but it was cold for us here, San Francisco.
GRACE: Was she sitting on the ground, the sidewalk or a chair?
SHANLEY: No, she was sitting on -- there`s a little bit of a ledge, a cement ledge that she was sitting on.
GRACE: What did you do, Ms. Shanley?
SHANLEY: I was staring at her. And usually, I can read people`s faces pretty well. I couldn`t read hers. And I knew she was young. I didn`t realize it was 12, but from the look of her, she looked under 18, anyway. And the hair on my arms stood up, and I knew something was wrong, that the situation wasn`t right. She stared at me the whole time, walking (INAUDIBLE) she spotted me and I spotted her. We never took our eyes off each other. And the stare was -- it was -- I couldn`t read it, but when the hair on my arms stood up, I was like, OK, something is wrong here. The situation isn`t right. And she didn`t look anything like him, so I knew she wasn`t his kid.
So I went in and asked the clerk to call their local police department, which would be the Richmond station, and she did. She dialed it for me. And I spoke to them and said, you know, there`s a young girl out here with a white male from 25 to 35, and she looks to be between the ages of -- I think I said 15 to 18, but she`s young. And it doesn`t look right.
And last night, I`d seen a show on CNN, and there was a woman crying to -- her aunt, asking for him to bring her home for her mother`s funeral and for Christmas. And that was first time I had seen her face. And her brown eyes is what got me. So I said -- as I`m talking with the police officer, I says, I was watching CNN, Nancy Grace, I think it was your show. I just know it was CNN, and that it may be this child from Virginia.
And the cop even said, Virginia? And I said, yes, there was a murder in Virginia, and the man killed the woman and took the child, and this might be them. I wasn`t sure, but my intuition was telling me something`s not right here. And sure enough, it was her and him. My intuition was right.
GRACE: You know, Ms. Shanley, the way you tell that story about how you came around, and your eyes locked, and that little girl just looked at you and you looked at her the whole time, and how the hair went up on your arms and you just knew, something inside of you...
SHANLEY: I knew it was wrong.
GRACE: It was meant to be. This is the way it was meant to be. Do you know what a miracle you have been part of, Ms. Shanley? I mean, when people were saying, Oh, he won`t hurt the girl, he`s infatuated with her, he loves her -- no. He is the prime suspect in her mother`s murder. And if it weren`t for you, Ms. Shanley, she could be dead today. A 12-year-old girl could be dead today, Ms. Shanley.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The witness felt that they had seen the suspect on a NANCY GRACE television show. And in this case, we believe that that is an accurate statement. This person does match the description, the same name identification as the suspect (INAUDIBLE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My major concern.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It gives us a great deal of concern.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re extremely concerned for Brittany`s safety.
GRACE: Bombshell!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Her mom is dead.
GRACE: Bombshell!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Her live-in boyfriend suspected in this case.
GRACE: Bombshell tonight!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have located Brittany. We`ve also located Mr. Easley. She is well. We have some video.
GRACE: He`s no stranger to a police cell, people.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) walking through the Wal-Mart in Salem.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Easley acted abnormally around the little girl.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We do believe that he used a cell phone (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Remember when you asked me (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She`s been in touch with her family.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I loved you from the time you were born!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They`re very relieved.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And will love you forever!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: With us tonight is a hero that made a miracle happen. With me is Theresa Shanley out of California. She spotted this 12-year-old girl with a grown man who turns out to be a convict, the prime suspect in the little girl`s mother`s death, 41-year-old Tina. With me tonight, taking your calls, Theresa Shanley.
Ms. Shanley, we are being flooded with calls and e-mails, some of them are, God bless her. Thank God for that lady and her courage to call and report her suspicion. Thank God she kept her eyes open. Thank god for you, Theresa Shanley. Ms. Shanley is an angel and a hero. It goes on and on and on. So Ms. Shanley, you`re pretty much a hero in our book. After you called 911, did you stick around for them to come?
SHANLEY: Yes, I stayed. They asked me to stay and (INAUDIBLE) my cell phone handy. And she had rattled me so much that I thought my cell phone was in my car, so I had to go out again past her. And again, she stared at me. And when I get to my car, my cell phone ended up being in my back pocket, but I was so rattled by her that I, you know, didn`t even realize where my cell phone was. And then I walked back in again, and we locked eyes again. We never spoke. I just kept looking, staring at her, trying to get a read on her, and I couldn`t.
GRACE: You know, it`s almost as if this little girl is pleading to you to help her.
We are taking your calls. With me now, Ann in Iowa. Hi, Ann.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Ms. Nancy. I have to say Theresa Shanley is definitely, definitely a hero. And Nancy, I have to say thank you because nine years ago, I suffered the loss of someone, as you did, and it`s because of your strength and your courage that I`ve learned how to live again. And so I have to thank you so much for giving me my life back.
Ms. Nancy, my question is this. If for any reason this boyfriend -- is it possible that he forced Brittany to potentially be involved in her mother`s killing? And if so, could she possibly be charged?
GRACE: I think that at this point, anything is possible in the murder scenario. You`re seeing a shot right now of 41-year-old Tina Smith. That`s her in the bottom square. On top of it is her daughter, the 12- year-old, who has just been recovered.
I doubt pretty seriously the little girl is going to be charged with anything. I just don`t see it, even if in some bizarre way she was part of it. I mean, for all we know, he hadn`t even told her that her mom was dead.
We do know, however -- and I`m going to go to Chief Ray Lavinder, special guest joining us out of the Roanoke, Virginia, area. He`s the chief of the Roanoke Police Department. Chief, how did the little girl learn -- first of all, congratulations.
CHIEF RAY LAVINDER, ROANOKE PD (via telephone): Thank you.
GRACE: And number two, how did she learn that her mom was dead? Does she know the mom was murdered?
LAVINDER: I`m not quite certain about that. When the San Francisco authorities contacted us, we learned that, you know, somewhere in the conversations that they had with her and Mr. Easley that that subject did come up, and it was relayed to her.
GRACE: With me, Chief Ray Lavinder of the Roanoke Police Department. I imagine he`s wondering tonight where is Jeffrey Easley? He is headed your way, Chief Lavinder. But tonight, he`s enjoying special amenities out in the jail, a private cell in San Francisco. Why isn`t he back home in Virginia facing murder and kidnap charges? That`s what I want to know.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Twelve-year-old Brittany Mae Smith.
GRACE: Brittany`s mom dead inside the family home.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And 32-year-old Jeffrey Scott Easley.
GRACE: Mommy`s live-in boyfriend she met on the Internet.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The witness felt they had seen the suspect on a NANCY GRACE television show.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re hoping that someone will see this video.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He`s two-and-a-half times her size.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There is another customer in the check-out. Maybe that person will see the video, and maybe they spoke to him or the child.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The way she`s standing with her forearms clenched.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She appears to be following him, always remaining very close to him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are taking your calls. Twelve-year-old Brittany has been found alive. She is reunited with her family, about to be reunited with her family in time for her mother`s funeral. We know the little girl has been apprised of her mother`s death.
Back to Chief Ray Lavinder with the Roanoke Police Department. Again, Chief, congratulations. Chief, what San Francisco told you is the little girl -- she knows her mom is dead, but we don`t know, does she know if she was murdered, any other details, correct?
LAVINDER: No. That`s correct.
GRACE: We are taking your calls live. Out to Carol in Nebraska. Hi, Carol.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. Welcome back.
GRACE: Thank you, dear. I`m happy to be back. What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`d like to know why family -- or children and family services didn`t do something about this because this time, I`m really positive they`re just a big joke.
GRACE: Well, you know what? I think they should all be fired.
You are seeing right now, Carol, the most recent video that we have obtained. There you see Easley. There he is. This is shortly after he was spotted at Wal-Mart. There you see Brittany in the background, looking down. See her holding her hands, looking downward?
To Stacy Kaiser, psychotherapist. Take a look at the little girl`s body language. What do you see?
STACY KAISER, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: Well, she obviously doesn`t look happy. What I see is somebody whose shoulders are down, which tells me that she`s sad. She may be feeling sort of beaten down and hopeless, like there`s really nothing that she can be doing. And the way we see her hands moving tells me she`s nervous and anxious but trying to contain herself.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They were seen together Friday night at a Wal- Mart.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We do believe that he used a cell phone in Wal- Mart.
GRACE: Shopping nearly 72 hours before the mom`s dead body was even discovered.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We have good news.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Incredible story to share with you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Brit is safe.
LT. LYNN TOMIOKA, SAN FRANCISCO POLICE DEPT.: A witness called the police department.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The last time anyone saw the boyfriend and daughter in Virginia at a Wal-Mart store.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The search is over now for young Brittany Smith.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Brit, we will now be home for Christmas.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Something triggered this witness` memory. What was that?
TOMIOKA: The witness felt that they had seen the suspect on a NANCY GRACE television show.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Look at these two.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: They were recognized from national news reports outside a nearby Safeway store and picked up.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Investigators say now that Brittany is safe, they can really turn their focus to finding out who killed Brittany`s mom, Tina Smith.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There has been a ray of sunshine on this very dark event.
TOMIOKA: The witness felt that they had seen the suspect on a NANCY GRACE television show, and in this case, we believe that that is an accurate statement. And this person does match the description, the same name, identification, as the suspect wanted by Virginia.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are taking your calls. Straight out to Scott Leamon, reporter, CNN affiliate, WSLS, joining us out of Roanoke.
Scott, thank you for being with us. When do you think Easley will get out of his private jail cell in San Francisco and come to a Virginia courtroom?
SCOTT LEAMON, REPORTER, CNN AFFILIATE WSLS: Well, hopefully tomorrow. If he doesn`t fight extradition, hopefully that process can get going.
I just found online, I checked Federal Pacer site every night. And the FBI has charged him with actually fleeing the state with Brittany to avoid prosecution so hopefully now that the feds are involved as well, at least in the court system, that will help expedite this process along.
GRACE: You know what, that`s very valuable information, Scott Leamon, that now the feds are in on it. How do you anticipate -- Scott Leamon, for Easley to be transferred from San Francisco to Roanoke? Would he fly or would he be in the back of one of those prison vans?
LEAMON: Well, in previous cases I covered like this, they have sometimes flown commercial. Now with this guy, with what he`s accused of, it`s well known, you know, in the national news --
GRACE: Hey, hey, wait a minute. I don`t want him propped up beside me on Delta. What do you mean, fly him commercial? No.
LEAMON: Exactly. Exactly. Well, you know, that`s -- your white collar guys, I have been doing this about a dozen years now. I mean I covered your white collar guys that flee the state, they might come back commercial. You know this guy, what he`s wanted for and how well-known he is, and you got to figure they`re probably going to just transport him cross-country which I have heard of them doing that before as well.
The big thing, you know, that a lot of police are to look for is who`s going to pick up the tab, honestly. Sometimes a lot of police who I`ve talked to in the past about cases like this want the feds in there because, A, they can pick up the tab, transport, and B, they have a lot more security.
GRACE: Yes.
LEAMON: The marshals, of course, do this for a living so they know exactly how to transport these guys.
GRACE: Well, let me tell you, Scott Leamon.
LEAMON: So they want them involved.
GRACE: I know they`ve got the money because they`re taking plenty out of my paycheck and yours, too, so I know the feds have the money. Let them bring him home because little known story. You know when Ted Bundy was being transported? He actually was considered trying to flee from the police car and the cop pulls out a gun and goes go ahead, run for it, Bundy, please run.
Well, needless to say, he didn`t run. Long story short, you expect him to be at least en route tomorrow. Is that what you said, Mr. Leamon?
LEAMON: That`s what we suspect. You know, just from what I`ve been following, they found the car that they drove out there so that tells you this is just speculation, sort of, but they found the car. That tells you that maybe that Jeff has been talking to them or else how else did they find the car.
So if he`s been talking to them hopefully they worked something out to where he doesn`t try to fight this thing tomorrow.
GRACE: You`re on a first-name basis with him?
LEAMON: If he tries to fight --
GRACE: I heard you call him Jeff. Do you know each other?
LEAMON: No. No.
GRACE: I`m glad.
LEAMON: Well, we have been covering the story for so long. I don`t know.
GRACE: You feel like you know him.
LEAMON: Easley -- well, I don`t know about that. But Easley, if he is talking to investigators, hopefully they have explained to him, you know, this is how -- the kind of route you want to take. If he tries to fight this thing, which I have never seen happen, quite honestly, then we don`t know where this ball goes from there.
But hopefully tomorrow they walk into court, extradite because I know a lot of folks here, of course, want to get him back here.
GRACE: With us out of Roanoke live in addition to Chief Ray Lavinder, the Roanoke police chief, and reporter with CNN affiliate WSLS Scott Leamon with all the latest.
Unleash the lawyers. Joining us tonight, high-profile lawyer Gloria Allred, L.A. Christopher Amolsch, defense attorney, D.C., Joe Lawless, renowned attorney and author out of the Philadelphia jurisdiction.
You know, Gloria, all three of us have handled extraditions. Usually there are like three questions. Are you Jeffrey Easley as named in this charge? Are you from Virginia? And are you contesting your extradition?
It`s really -- I mean, there`s a governor`s form letter from Virginia saying, I want this guy sent back to me on these charges, and even if he fights it, once they prove his identity, which takes about 10 minutes to compare to a fingerprint, he`s got to go back even if he fights it.
GLORIA ALLRED, VICTIM`S RIGHTS ATTORNEY, CHILD ADVOCATE: Well, exactly.
Now, Nancy, I want to take a moment of personal privilege and have everybody in the audience put their hands together right now and give a big round of applause for Nancy Grace for featuring this and helping to save this little girl.
GRACE: You know, Gloria, I do appreciate that, but I really believe without that lady, Theresa Shanley, this girl could be dead, Gloria, because look back at all the kidnaps, all the kidnaps of children that we have seen. Typically, I would say well over 90 percent of them end in murder.
And this courtship that he was having with this little girl, Gloria, you and I have seen this a million times. We believe he murdered the mother. You don`t think you would murder the girl if it came down to it to avoid the Virginia death penalty, Gloria? What do you think?
ALLRED: Well, and that`s why it was so important that you urged your viewers to be on the lookout for this man, because of the potential risk of harm to this little girl, and obviously, this little girl wasn`t going to be able to get away by herself, if in fact she was kidnapped, and she was a child, so we`re going to have to assume she was kidnapped. That`s why you and Theresa are responsible potentially for saving her life.
GRACE: Thank you, Gloria.
Joe Lawless, what about the extradition? What`s the hold-up and why is he propped up in a psych unit? There`s nothing wrong with him.
JOE LAWLESS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY, AUTHOR OF "PROSECUTORIAL MISCONDUCT": Well, Nancy --
GRACE: If he can evade the feds, Lawless, then he is not crazy.
LAWLESS: You`re saying that like they just decided well, we`re going to give you a cushy room in a psych ward. Somebody, either a prosecutor or one of the investigating officers, decided he needed to be evaluated. That`s why he`s there. But he`s locked up, he`s not going anywhere.
Extradition is going to be a snap. If it takes more than tomorrow, it`s because they didn`t get the paperwork there. He can contest it all he wants. He`s out of the state real quick. That`s not going to be a problem.
GRACE: What about it, Amolsch?
CHRISTOPHER AMOLSCH, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: He`ll be back sooner rather than later. And, you know, I`m not sure having the feds involved is going to smooth the process but they`ll definitely get him back faster than Virginia will.
GRACE: You know what, I think having the feds -- well, typically they are so slow and I was a fed. That`s how I know.
AMOLSCH: Correct.
GRACE: For three years. Slow as molasses but they will get their man back to where he`s supposed to be.
Now let me go back to you, Scott Leamon joining us out of Roanoke. Tell me again what are the federal charges he`s facing?
LEAMON: It`s fleeing interstate with the girl, obviously, to avoid prosecution because I guess the feds are figuring that he knew once he leaves with her that he`s going to be wanted for something. That`s not his daughter, he has no legal right to her.
So what they`re alleging in this document which I have right here is that he knows that and then flees out of state regardless.
GRACE: Got it.
Back to Jean Casarez, legal correspondent, "In Session." I want to talk about the mother, her funeral service now set for this weekend. They have been trying to wait, hoping the little girl could come to her mother`s funeral. A 12-year-old girl now without her mother, in addition to everything else she`s going to have to live with for the rest of her life, now she has that burden.
Jean Casarez, I understand they`re placing -- they`re not releasing the COD, but they`re placing the time of death between midmorning and that evening. Do we know why?
JEAN CASAREZ, LEGAL CORRESPONDENT, "IN SESSION": They are not saying but they are continually doing investigation at that home because after Easley spoke with investigators -- and remember, four investigators from Roanoke flew to California.
After that conversation with him, they went back to that house and went in the backyard to take pictures and do investigation. Why? We don`t know. But this is a homicide case and that`s the focus now.
GRACE: To Ron Martinelli, forensic criminologist with Martinelli Associates, joining us out of L.A.
Ron, placing the time of death, they`ve got a big window there, but you know, they may not need that time of death to prove who did the murder. My question is, what about -- could they be basing it on, for instance, the time that her body was found and maybe her last cell phone call or her last call from the home, or the last time she logged on to Facebook? I mean it may be something external, not forensic evidence found on the body.
RON MARTINELLI, FORENSIC CRIMINOLOGIST, MARTINELLI & ASSOCIATES, JUSTICE & FORENSIC CONSULTANTS, INC.: Well, there`s a couple of different ways that they can do it. They can attempt to do it forensically by body temperature, taking a look at the ambient or interior temperature of the residence, and comparing that to the time that the body is found, and see what state the body is in as well, as far as something called lividity.
They can also take a look at it technically by taking a look at the last telephone call that the mother might have made. If the call is a digital call or a phone`s a digital call, they can go back just by pressing a button and moving back through all the primary or the last calls that she made, and they can also get the phone records right away and determine the last time a call was made or accepted from the house.
GRACE: Even local phone calls, Mr. Martinelli?
MARTINELLI: I can`t tell you about local telephone calls. Well, you know, as a matter of fact, yes, I can. Using the -- you know, the new phones now which are digital, they`re almost computers in themselves, depending on the fact the phone system they had in the house, yes, they could also get local calls as well.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Twelve-year-old little girl --
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Brittany --
POLICE CHIEF RAY LAVINDER, ROANOKE CO. POLICE: (INAUDIBLE) decision.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Brittany --
LAVINDER: Consent -- it`s irrelevant.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Brittany`s last entry on MySpace read, "Whatever, nothing is going right in my life. F my life."
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Everyone`s goal has been to find 12-year-old Brittany Smith.
LAVINDER: We have located Brittany.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: They were panhandling outside of a Safeway grocery store, had also been camping out nearby. Someone inside that store recognized the two and called 911.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We again want to thank everyone who`s had a helping hand in finding 12-year-old Brittany Smith.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She`ll be able to help her mother rest in peace tonight.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Virginia investigators say Jeffrey Scott Easley faces felonies for credit card fraud and abducting the girl, but may in fact be involved in a far more serious crime.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The focus has shifted to the murder investigation.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The murder of the girl`s mother.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Without your help this case could have ended much differently.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are taking your calls. Live out to Tracy in North Carolina. Hi, Tracy.
I think I`ve got Tracy. Liz, do we have Tracy? Let`s go to Debbie. Hi, Debbie.
DEBBIE, CALLER FROM TEXAS: Hi, Nancy.
GRACE: Hi, dear. What`s your question?
DEBBIE: Well, I have -- I do have a question. I`m wondering why the police aren`t considering Brittany as a part of this murder. She seems to be totally compliant with this man. She knew her mother was dead and their only focus is to get her reunited with her family.
I`m very curious to find out in the end how she`s involved in this murder. Very sadly, it happens every day.
GRACE: You mean patricide or a child killing their parent happens every day?
DEBBIE: Well, yes.
GRACE: Does it? I didn`t know that. You think it happens every day?
DEBBIE: Well, I think -- maybe not every day, but very, very often.
GRACE: Because I thought it was extremely rare. She`s not a teenager, she`s 12 years old, number one. I thought patricide is extremely rare. But let`s take a look at that for a moment.
Let me go out to Ron Martinelli, forensic criminologist. It`s my understanding that patricide, the killing of a parent, is very rare. It`s not that common.
MARTINELLI: I would say more that it`s not a frequent occurrence. It`s an infrequent occurrence.
GRACE: OK. To Stacy Kaiser, psychotherapist. What about it, Stacy?
STACY KAISER, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: It`s not frequent at all, and particularly with young girls. I mean they`re not considered to be violent people. And I also have to say a 12-year-old is not accountable for their behavior. They`re 12.
So this is somebody who`s just beginning to get into her own and she`s probably influenced by the man over everything else.
GRACE: Let`s see, 12 years old, what are you, in the fifth grade?
KAISER: Yes. You`re pretty much in the fifth grade.
GRACE: OK.
(CROSSTALK)
KAISER: And you`re just starting to come into who you are.
GRACE: Let`s think it through. So relatives noticed an inappropriate relationship at Thanksgiving, multiple relatives called family and children services in two -- in two jurisdictions.
What were they, Jean? What were the two jurisdictions?
CASAREZ: The two jurisdictions, you`re talking about -- say that again?
GRACE: Where DFACS was called. One was, I think, Hillsborough?
CASAREZ: Yes. Yes.
GRACE: And the other one was --
CASAREZ: In the Virginia area, yes. I the Virginia area, it was called twice. They were at a -- they`re having a Christmas party, didn`t have time, finally a call-back came and the grandmother said it`s too late, she`s gone.
You know, Nancy, what I`m thinking about is what cases have I covered where children have killed their parents.
GRACE: Yes, very few.
CASAREZ: I`ve covered several of them but they were all older, but they involved a boyfriend and the boyfriend really persuaded the son or daughter to help in killing the parent.
GRACE: I mean, there`s -- for instance, Menendez. They were up in their 20s. Then the others that you have covered, that you and I have covered together back on CourtTV, they were up in their late teens when this happened.
CASAREZ: Yes. Correct.
GRACE: It was Halifax and Roanoke County. Ellie just told me in my ear. Both of those family and children services were called, they did nothing.
But back to the question, Debbie`s question about why the girl hasn`t been charged. Number one, we don`t know how she knows her mom is dead. For all I know, he told her some cockamamie story.
We don`t have any reason to believe she took part in her own mother`s murder yet. We have no reason to do that. And if this child has been kidnapped, she`s a 12-year-old girl and if she has been raped and sexually assaulted, you know, I just don`t see charges coming down.
What about it, Lawless?
LAWLESS: -- assumptions about this girl without any evidence, Nancy. It`s -- there`s an indication she had opportunities to flee, didn`t do it. She changed her name on her Facebook page. We just don`t know. I`m not saying she did. I`m not saying she didn`t.
GRACE: Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Hold on, Lawless.
LAWLESS: It`s just as possible she was a participant.
GRACE: Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Do we still have that video of Shasta Groene? Liz, if you do put it up.
Gloria Allred, many times you don`t see a kidnapped child try to flee the kidnapper. That`s not unusual. That`s not unusual at all. We have video of a little girl, 12-year-old -- there she is, look at Shasta. Her whole family was murdered in front of her eyes, her brother was molested and murdered in front of her eyes, and this is the killer she`s with.
She`s not trying to run, but obviously she didn`t want to be with him. He was -- you know that doesn`t mean anything. You can take Shasta down. It hurts me to even look at it. I wish I hadn`t called for it. But the fact that Brittany wasn`t running away, that doesn`t mean anything to me.
ALLRED: Well, that`s true. And of course we know we just heard Elizabeth Smart testify, and that, in fact, she was threatened that members of her family would be killed if she tried to flee. And in fact, if this little girl knew that her mother had just been killed by Easley.
GRACE: Right. Right.
ALLRED: If in fact, he did it, she might have been afraid to go. So --
GRACE: Out to Dr. Glenn Kolansky, joining us out of New York.
Doctor Kolansky, how could you place a time of death on the mother`s body, many, many hours later? She wasn`t discovered for days.
DR. GLENN KOLANSKY, M.D., BOARD CERTIFIED PHYSICIAN: Well, it`s very easy -- not easy, but basically what you can look at the body, the color of the skin, the turger in the skin, bacteria seems to take place about 48 hours after death and radiating from the abdomen on, the skin gets a greenish color.
And then over time, the bacteria set in and the body starts to decay. So you can kind of get within the first few days.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We had a concerted effort of volunteers so we could do a line search, you know, shoulder to shoulder. And that`s what it took to find Natalie today.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: After hours of clearing the area --
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: The body of the 4-year-old little girl has been found.
To Cherie Ward with the "Mississippi Press". What happened, Cherie?
CHERIE WARD, REPORTER, THE MISSISSIPPI PRESS: Well, she was discovered about 9:00 a.m. Saturday in a rural area right about the corner of Prine (ph) Road and Beverly and Jeffries Highway in Citronelle.
Basically they recovered a skeleton. She was found in the woods kind of off the highway like her brother was found on Wednesday. And the father, he led them there.
GRACE: To Dr. Glenn Kolansky, joining us out of New York.
Doctor Kolansky, when all you have left are the skeletonized remains of a child, how are you going to tell the cause of death? Because we`ve got this biofather and the stepmother, months have passed, Dr. Kolansky, since anyone saw the children. And now we find their little bodies. They should both get the death penalty as far as I`m concerned.
KOLANSKY: I agree with you, Nancy. Unfortunately, once the body is decayed, you can look for blunt trauma on the bones of the body if there`s any knife wounds, bullet wounds. But without actual, you know, skin or, you know, vital organs to examine, you are kind of left with just the skeleton.
So actually that makes it very hard to --you know, to determine the cause of death unless you have a bullet hole or a knife wound or, you know, blunt trauma to the torso. So I think --
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Glenn Kolansky joining us out of New York. And very quickly, Cherie Ward, when is -- when are stepmommy and daddy going to be back in court?
WARD: Now John Deblase will be back in court on January 4th. That`s to answer to the two counts of murder. Heather Keaton actually arrived in Mobile about 1:30 this morning. She`s going to be in court in the morning on the child abuse and abuse of -- abuse of the corpse charge.
GRACE: Let`s stop and remember Army Sergeant Joseph Hunt, 27, Sweetwater, Tennessee, killed Iraq. Awarded the Bronze Star and Purple Heart. Loved family, countries, sports, University of Tennessee Volunteers. Played the guitar. Leaves behind parents Tim and Marcia, sisters Kristin and Leslie, sons Caleb and Joshua.
Joseph Hunt, American hero.
Thank you to our guests, but especially to you tonight.
Happy birthday to the most beautiful woman in the world to me.
Happy birthday, Mother.
And tonight, prayers to the family of a longtime friend Martha Dugger, who passed away December 8, Tennessee. A nurse, a member of the first Christian Church Mountain Center -- Mountain City. Leaves behind daughter Lori, son Daniel, and a lot of her life, someone who really did love her, granddaughter Emma.
Martha Dugger, good night, friend.
Everyone, I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.
END
