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Jane Velez-Mitchell
Burlesque Dancer Missing; Court to Review Amanda Knox Case
Aired December 20, 2010 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST (voice-over): Tonight, a frantic hunt for a Las Vegas show girl who vanished more than a week ago. The dancer`s car found in a parking lot. Her distraught sister believes the brunette bombshell is in danger. Did an obsessed fan cross the line? I`ll talk to former Las Vegas insider Rachel Uchitel.
And an explosive ruling in the Amanda Knox case. The 23-year-old was convicted and sentenced to 26 years behind bars in Italy for murdering her roommate. Now the court`s calling for a complete review of evidence from the trial. Will DNA prove Amanda is innocent or guilty?
Then, uproar and shock as cops bust a popular pastor in a child porn ring. The reverend faces a whopping 112 counts of child pornography. Cops say he downloaded and saved hideously graphic images of kids being raped. Were any children at his church attacked?
Plus a crucial hearing for Casey Anthony. Her defense team tries to keep witnesses under raps. Could these mystery witnesses protect her from death if she`s convicted?
ISSUES starts now.
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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CELESTE FLORES-NARVAEZ, SISTER OF MISSING WOMAN: Just let her go and let her be and let her come home to us and the people that she loves.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight, a terrifying mystery on the Las Vegas strip. A showgirl vanishes into thin air. Debbie Flores-Narvaez has been missing for a week now, her car found abandoned in a very remote part of town. Her family says the last they heard, she was going to her ex-boyfriend`s house. Could a cryptic text message be an eerie prediction of some sort?
Debbie Flores-Narvaez performs in the Strip`s most seductive stage show, "Fantasy" at the Luxor Hotel. Watch this clip from the Players Network.
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(MUSIC)
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VELEZ-MITCHELL: This woman is a model, a former Washington Redskins cheerleader, and -- get this -- she`s even a lawyer. Debbie gave up a lucrative career to follow her passion for dancing. Here she is on an audition tape, dancing to "Down the Drain" by James Cappra Jr. Check this out.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(MUSIC: JAMES CAPPRA JR.`S "DOWN THE DRAIN")
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK. She`s a great dancer and beautiful.
Debbie`s family says there is absolutely no way that she would voluntarily leave Las Vegas without telling somebody. They say Debbie beat out thousands of women to get a solo part in the stage show "Fantasy."
The lure of Vegas was so strong Debbie gave up a law and a finance career to pursue her dancing dream. But did somebody steal her dream and maybe even steal her life? Where is Debbie tonight?
I am taking your calls on this, 1-877-JVM-SAYS. That`s 1-877-586- 7297.
Straight out to my fantastic panel, but first to Angelica Bridges.
We`re so delighted you`re joining us tonight. I understand you`re a friend of the missing woman, and you also used to star with Debbie in the Luxor Hotel`s "Fantasy" show.
ANGELICA BRIDGES, FRIEND OF DEBBIE (via phone): Yes. Yes. I was there when Debbie auditioned for the show, and she came onto the cast.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: So tell us about Debbie. How talented a dancer is she?
BRIDGES: Oh, she`s amazing. She has this -- just this air about her of being secure and confident. And not only was she beautiful on the outside, but she was more beautiful on the inside than you could imagine. Like she would give you the shirt off of her back. She was always concerned about other people`s feelings before her own. She was just an amazing little person.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, let`s not talk about her in the past tense. She is stunning, a stunningly beautiful woman who is missing tonight. I pray to God that she is found, and that`s why we`re doing this. We want to be part of the solution. If you have seen this woman, immediately call Las Vegas police.
Now, I understand, Angelica, you have just spoken with the family. What are they going through? How are they holding up tonight?
BRIDGES: Yes. Her sister is not doing very well. She`s trying to be strong. There were lots of tears, obviously. She just -- you know, we have a lot of hope that she`s going to be able to find her or someone is going to come through and give her something to grasp, because right now she really doesn`t have anything to grasp. There are really no leads.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Angelica -- Angelica, you are now in this photo that we`re showing along with the missing woman. I just want to point that out. Continue.
BRIDGES: OK. Yes. So she`s -- she`s distraught. And you know, she`s -- the last person to see her was a boyfriend, and he`s not being cooperative. He hasn`t even called the family to give his condolences to help out in the search.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, let me jump in here, Angelica, because cops are saying he is cooperating, so there`s a little disagreement there.
Sometime between Friday, December 10 and Sunday, December 12, Debbie left home, reportedly to visit her ex-boyfriend. Now, she reportedly told the family that they spoke by the front door. The boyfriend says she left very quickly and never even went inside.
However, the "Atlanta Journal-Constitution" reports two weeks before she disappeared, Debbie sent a cryptic text message to her mother, saying, "In case there is ever an emergency with me, contact blank," her ex- boyfriend`s name, adding, "My ex-boyfriend, not my best friend," end quote.
Now, when her mother asked her about this sort of ominous text, Debbie said, "Never mind, Mommy. Just keep it for your records."
Cops say the ex-boyfriend is cooperating. We`re not naming him, because he hasn`t been named a suspect. But as you just heard from a very good friend of the family, Debbie`s sister claims there are inconsistencies in his statements, and he is not contacting the family.
What do you make of it, John Lucich, criminal investigator?
JOHN LUCICH, CRIMINAL INVESTIGATOR: Well, clearly he could be a person of interest. One place the cops have is that car and all the DNA and evidence that may come back when they examine that car. Once they find -- and it will be nice to know that, if her cell phone actually pinged in that location. Because if not, then what may have happened was something happened to this young lady and then someone else dropped the car off.
So if this boyfriend`s cell phone pings in that area and shows that he was in that area where that car was dropped off, if that`s possible, then cops have a direction to go in. And I can tell you, at this stage, they probably have a lot -- know a lot more than what they`re telling people right now.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. On the phone with us right now, Rachel Uchitel, former Las Vegas insider.
Rachel, you know Las Vegas very, very well. The car was found in North Vegas. What does that tell you?
RACHEL UCHITEL, LAS VEGAS INSIDER (via phone): Hi, Jane. Well, basically northeastern part of Las Vegas where her car was found is neither a highly populated place nor is it a safe place. And you know, that -- that concerns me about that.
Also, her boyfriend said that he saw her on around December 12 but said she didn`t come in the house and he said she had been acting depressed and been living in her car, which I find odd, because the plates were removed from the car. And if she didn`t want somebody to see her identity from the car, and he`s suggesting she took the plates off. It`s odd that she would leave her own bag inside the car for people to find it.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, let me get some perspective on this. Because again, these pictures -- you can see she has a beautiful body. She`s very stunning. And we`ve already seen evidence that she`s a very talented dancer.
Debbie was reported missing when she didn`t show up for rehearsal for the adult stage show "Fantasy." Her family says she worked incredibly hard to get a leading role in that Las Vegas show. Listen to this.
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FLORES-NARVAEZ: This was her life. This is what she does. It`s dancing. She left her career to follow her dream, and it`s what she loves to do.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Debbie had a law and finance degree, laid off during the recession. She decided to leave Baltimore, where she had been working, and follow her dream to become a professional dancer.
Now, her ex-boyfriend, as you just heard from Rachel, claims she was depressed and sleeping out of her car. But the family says that doesn`t make any sense.
Rachel, obviously anybody can suffer from depression. But is it something that is coveted, to get the role that she had in this particular show? This is not some strip club. This is the Luxor Hotel. This is a major production. Is it equivalent to almost being on Broadway?
UCHITEL: Absolutely. Listen, people don`t move to Vegas to, you know, go hang out. They move there for a specific reason, which is usually to make the most money possible in the shortest amount of time. Especially we`ve heard she has a law degree, that she was a very smart girl. So clearly, she knew what she was doing moving there.
The vacation theory to me is absolutely not possible. People who go to Vegas have motivation. They go there, and they work very hard. You have a routine. You`re either training; you`re working; you`re in the show that you`re in; or you`re sleeping and you`re taking care of yourself in those ways.
Now, there`s, you know, the abstract underworkings of Vegas can be very shady. There`s a lot of stuff going on behind the scenes: sex, drugs, a lot of secrets. But people in her position have worked very hard to get there, and there`s a reason that they`re in that position. So there`s no way I believe she would have taken a vacation or disappeared on her own accord.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Angelica...
BRIDGE: She does not drink or do drugs. She`s absolutely the most straight-laced person you`ll ever meet.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Did she express -- because we`re going to talk on the other side of the break about her fears, her dark fears, that some obsessed fan might try to come after her. Did she ever talk to you about that, Angelica?
BRIDGES: No. I just know that, you know, she was always on time and always came early and very, very responsible and attentive. But she never spoke. She was very private about her private life. She did bring her boyfriend to the show.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Is this the one that`s now the ex-boyfriend?
BRIDGES: Yes.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK. Well, I want to mention him.
BRIDGES: We didn`t -- we didn`t -- other than that, no, she never really spoke about being depressed or anything.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Hang on. Angelica and Rachel, stay there. We`re just getting started.
Everyone, we are taking your calls. What`s your theory? 1-877-JVM- SAYS.
Plus, Casey Anthony wants some witnesses kept secret throughout her trial. What`s that about? And who are these mystery witnesses?
Plus, more on this Las Vegas showgirl`s very, very strange and ominous disappearance.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FLORES-NARVAEZ: It`s hard. I can`t -- I can`t make anything of this right now. I just -- it`s not her. It`s not her to go missing. It`s not her to go take a small vacation like this.
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FLORES-NARVAEZ: I need her. That`s -- it`s my duty. It`s my job. That`s all -- I mean, I can`t think about -- I can`t think about getting upset about it or being emotional about it. I just have to just think about doing it and, like a robot, you know, like going to work every morning. This is what has to be done.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight, a Las Vegas showgirl vanishes into thin air. Her parents say Debbie Flores-Narvaez played her ex-boyfriend a visit. That`s where the trail goes cold. Her car has been abandoned. It`s been a week since Debbie disappeared.
I`ve got to ask you, Anita Kay, you`re a former sex crimes prosecutor. Shouldn`t the cops get a search warrant and go into that boyfriend`s home and see what the heck is in there?
ANITA KAY, FORMER SEX CRIMES PROSECUTOR: Absolutely, Jane. But in order to get the search warrant, they need probable cause. So their best luck is, if the boyfriend is cooperative, that he will let the police in there and let them search on their own.
And they could be searching for any clues of where she could be and also clues that we`re familiar with: you know, any blood stains, anything that would lead to foul play. That type of thing. But if there`s enough probable cause, yes, they should try and get a warrant.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I don`t understand why there wouldn`t be enough probable cause. I mean, that`s the last place she was seen. Her car turns up missing. She leaves that cryptic note.
KAY: Right.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: If anything -- basically, "if anything happens to me, contact my ex-boyfriend."
I`m not saying he`s a suspect. He`s not listed as a suspect, but, my gosh, go in there and find out -- if there`s nothing, great. Hallelujah.
KAY: Yes. It`s up to a judge. You`ve got to write it out. The officer has to write out all the things that they`re thinking are probable cause, which you just stated. All the facts that we have that say why we should get into the house.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I think -- I think you could have gotten probable cause on this.
Yoshida, New York, your question or thought?
CALLER: Yes. I think that Debbie is a very beautiful female, and I`m saying that they really should concentrate on the ex-boyfriend. Or she`s probably -- I used to be a dancer in Vegas so I kind of know what goes on. You do have stalkers that do go after dancers. I was stalked at one point. So that`s why I got out of the industry and moved back to New York. You do have these crazy men that do try to come after you.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Absolutely. Again, the boyfriend is not considered a suspect. He and his attorney, if he has one, are invited on the show any time to explain whatever they want to explain.
My big issue tonight: dark fears. You just heard from that caller, used to be a dancer. E! Online reported Debbie told a friend and fellow dancer she was worried about obsessed fans. After all, she was performing half nude in a Las Vegas show. Men are bound to fantasize about her.
Here`s a look at the show "Fantasy" from the Players Network on Google video.
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VELEZ-MITCHELL: Men who are not getting whatever they need at home often come to these shows looking for fantasy, and some probably do get obsessed with these dancers. And then also there`s the chance that some predator saw her in the show and decided to target her.
Angelica Bridges, you used to star in the show. Is there like a stage door where the stage door Johnnies can hang out and sort of track a person as they leave?
BRIDGES: Yes, that`s possible. But the security at that hotel is so good, and they really, really take care of their employees and their headliners and their dancers, that usually, someone always walks the girls to their car. Every single night they have two or three security people.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Dale -- Dr. Dale Archer, you`ve actually met this missing woman. Tell us about that.
DR. DALE ARCHER, CLINICAL PSYCHIATRIST: Yes. Well, I`m actually a good friend of Angelica`s, and so I met Debbie through Angelica.
And the thing that struck me about her was that she was extremely intelligent, and for someone to give up a law degree and a master`s in finance to go out to follow their dream, I think is very commendable.
But folks need to understand. This is a Las Vegas hotel on the Strip of the highest order. This is a Las Vegas showgirl. So this is a very, very prestigious position that she was in, and certainly, with this territory, goes stalkers, because they have an aura around these women.
And all it takes is for a guy to find one that he likes. Then he goes to the show over and over and over. And the next thing you know, he thinks, you know what? She really likes me. I`m going to get us together.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, guess what? The thing that cops should do is check the tickets and find out who has purchased a ticket to the show over and over and over. That`s a very good point.
Now, Debbie apparently beat out thousands of women to get on the cast of "Fantasy" at the Luxor. And it`s obvious she`s a trained dancer. Again, here she is on an audition tape we found on YouTube, dancing to the song "Down the Drain," which is by James Cappra Jr. Watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(MUSIC: JAMES CAPPRA JR.`S "DOWN THE DRAIN")
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Chet Buchanan, Las Vegas radio host 98.5 KLUC radio. You`re right there in Vegas. What do you make of this case?
CHET BUCHANAN, RADIO HOST, KLUC: Well, I think the interesting thing is how quiet everyone is being. I called a number of sources earlier this afternoon. And you have to understand, this is the case, this is the story that everybody is talking about. It has rocked the Las Vegas entertainment community all up and down the strip. And the interesting part is that everyone is being so quiet.
To go back to your stalker point a moment ago, I just got down from a -- living on a 30-foot scaffolding for 12 days to raise toys for kids. All the Vegas entertainers came, including the cast of "Fantasy." We had to ask a gentleman to leave at one point because he was waiting around for one of the girls from "Fantasy." He didn`t say who. We`re checking the photos and working with Las Vegas Metro Police to find out if perhaps it might have been the ex-boyfriend or just someone random. But it does happen, and it can be a scary thing.
The one thing that once again we have to remind the family is to never give up hope until you have a reason to not hope any longer.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let me ask you a question, Chet. Have you told cops about this sicko who was hanging around at this place where the "Fantasy" cast members showed up?
BUCHANAN: Yes. Once again, we are working closely with Las Vegas Metro Police in examining all the photos to find out who this gentleman may be and to find out if he may, in fact, be that ex-boyfriend people that everybody`s talking about. Because there sure are a lot of things pointing in that direction. Aren`t there?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, there are.
BRIDGES: Jane, can I say...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Go ahead. Very quickly.
BRIDGE: OK. I just wanted to say that, you know, this is a gorgeous and seductive girl. This is what landed her her job. She`s not unaware of those traits...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Got to leave it right there. Nancy Grace with the latest on this case.
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AMANDA KNOX, CONVICTED OF MURDER: They called me a stupid liar, and they said that I was trying to protect someone.
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VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight, a huge victory for convicted killer Amanda Knox. An Italian appeals court is allowing a new independent review of key evidence. A bloody knife and bra clasp, that`s the only physical evidence linking the young American woman known as Foxy Knoxy to British student Meredith Kercher`s murder.
Three years ago, Kercher was found in a pool of blood with her throat slit inside the apartment she and Amanda shared. Amanda and her boyfriend were convicted of sexual assault and murder. But Amanda`s defense team insists the evidence was contaminated and DNA results were inconclusive.
Here`s her mom on ABC.
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EDDA MELLAS, AMANDA KNOX`S MOTHER: The way the testing was done, you know, on the knife -- well, I guess really beginning with the way the knife was found, the way it was just randomly chosen, the way the testing was done, they didn`t follow standard protocols. I mean, the -- you know, it`s -- you know, it`s just a mess.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Straight out, and we`re delighted to have prominent attorney John Q. Kelly with us tonight.
You`re not connected to this case, but you`ve been an outspoken supporter and defender of Amanda`s innocence. What do you make of this development?
JOHN Q. KELLY, ATTORNEY: I think it`s terrific, Jane. You know, the testing was -- was dubious at best. The knife itself that they`re talking about was not consistent with the wounds made by the murder weapon, first of all. Secondly, it was recovered from Raffaele`s kitchen, selected randomly and taken.
Thirdly, the DNA that was -- that was supposedly located on the knife was what we call LCN or low copy numbers DNA that is inherently unreliable, and they tested the DNA for blood residual, and it wasn`t even blood DNA. It was skin flake DNA, which is very unreliable and subject to contamination at all times.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: We`ve talked before on this show about how the prosecutor in this case has a very controversial past and that many felt he is simply anti-American and was out to get this young woman. Is that going to impact this testing and the appeals process?
KELLY: Well, I don`t think he was particularly anti-American, because Raffaele Sollecito, who was with Amanda, was convicted also. He`s a young Italian man from a very good family. And I don`t think it was a question of targeting an American.
I think he -- the prosecutor, Mr. Magini, had gone out on a limb, announced to great fanfare the arrest of Amanda, Lumbamba, and Sollecito at the same time. And that was before they had the results of the physical and forensic evidence. And he was sort of putting his back to the wall, taking a stand on his theory of the case and didn`t want to back down.
So now he`s been trying to make the evidence fit his theory, which is basically part fiction, part fantasy and part fairy dust, as far as I`m concerned.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, well, a lot of people think that he is really unprofessional, that he has consulted psychics in the course of doing an investigation. Really bizarre stuff. And a lot of people have interpreted...
KELLY: Well, he was convicted of corruption, Jane.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Right. And a lot of people have interpreted this particular verdict as an expression of anti-Americanism. So in that context, the prosecutor of the case is what I meant, would be anti-American by going after what many here in the United States believe is an innocent young woman.
Ten seconds, do you think she has a chance, yes or no, actually?
KELLY: I think she has a very good chance, yes.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let`s hope. Great seeing you, John Q. Kelly, as always. Thank you so much.
KELLY: Thank you, Jane. Bye-bye.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: A terrifying discovery, a pastor, busted, alleged child porn.
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VELEZ-MITCHELL: Uproar and shock as cops bust a popular pastor in a child porn ring. The reverend faces a whopping 112 counts of child pornography. Cops say he downloaded and saved hideously graphic images of kids being raped. Were any children at his church attacked?
Plus -- a crucial hearing for Casey Anthony. Her defense team tries to keep witnesses under wraps. Could these mystery witnesses protect her from death if she`s convicted?
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BILL MASON, CUYAHOGA COUNTY PROSECUTOR: The amount of downloading and file sharing that he has is significant so he`s very active in the child pornography viewing and sharing networks.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight, a reverend -- that`s right -- a church pastor, busted in a huge child porn sting.
The Reverend Dr. Mark Griggs faces more than 100 counts of possessing and sharing child porn. Police say his computer is filled with horrific videos of children being raped. Cops say some of the victims are as young as 2 years old.
Did this man of the cloth exploit and prey upon innocent children? His defense attorney claims no. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAY MILANO, REV. GRIGGS` DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Reverend Griggs is going to plead not guilty and he`s going to defend himself. He is not a child pornographer.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Is it possible the pastor`s computer had video of children being raped and he simply didn`t know it? That`s what his attorney asks us to believe. But we will ask the experts right now if that defense holds water.
Griggs was one of 27 child porn suspects arrested after a six-month- long investigation. Sadly, it doesn`t come as much of a shock any more. Why are trusted pillars of the community so often accused of victimizing children? What is behind this sick trend?
First to Ken Robinson, radio reporter for WTAM in Cleveland; Ken, I`m almost afraid to ask, what is the very latest?
KEN ROBINSON, RADIO REPORTER, WTAM, CLEVELAND: Well, the very latest is the community where the pastor serves is shocked over this. The parishioners confused. This all came out of the blue last week when the pastor was indicted.
He supposedly downloaded child pornography on a laptop, his own laptop not only at home but in the church.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, the pastor`s lawyer says, oh, this is all just a big misunderstanding. He claims that his client is only guilty of using bad software. Huh?
(CROSSTALK)
ROBINSON: That`s correct. That`s what the defense attorney is saying.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let`s listen to what he has to say.
ROBINSON: Yes.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Ok. Let`s listen.
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MILANO: The problem with all these cases is, if you`re downloading files from Limewire, you don`t have any control about what`s coming in your computer. There`s no reason to believe that you have ever looked at them or know they were there.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: We`re talking 112 counts of child porn here. Is the file sharing defense going to hold up in court?
John Lucich, former criminal investigator, tell us in plain English what you make of this defense.
JOHN LUCICH, FORMER CRIMINAL INVESTIGATOR: Well, first of all, I don`t think it holds water because we have a long period of time we`re talking about. We`re talking about between 2008 and 2010. We`re talking about 112 images.
In addition to that, we`re talking about images found on his computer that were also, according to what I`ve read, available for download which gives to the distribution charge.
Now, as far as downloading stuff you don`t know, I can tell you this. From my experience, these file names are very graphically descriptive. And as you download them, you`ll see the file names that are coming down. To have 112 images that were on your own computer and then claim you had no idea how they got there is not a defense that I think anybody is going to buy.
Now, there`s another thing to take a look at. When you download these files it`s going to have a file creation date. If that download date and last access date matched then he never viewed them. But if we have multiple download dates and multiple last access dates after the download date, then it`s clear to the investigator who`s looking at this that somebody viewed these images after they downloaded them.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let me sum up what you`re saying here.
There`s a lot of ways that forensic experts working for the police department can determine whether somebody downloaded something accidentally or whether they downloaded it on purpose and actually used it and then put it on their computer file sharing folder that allows other people to download it.
LUCICH: Right.
(CROSSTALK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: So if you`re accidentally downloading something, that`s one thing. But accidentally distributing it is another thing entirely. And he is accused of sharing this stuff with other people, trading it. That`s where I think he`s going to have his biggest problem.
Quick point, John.
LUCICH: Another big problem is going to be what searches he was doing to download those files. If he`s doing PTHC which stands for preteen hard core, he`s going to have problems.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right.
LUCICH: And I have no doubt about it. They`re going to find that.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Here`s my big issue tonight -- psychological smokescreen. The St. Andrews Church Web site says the Reverend Dr. Griggs is a good fit for the church in part because of his love of children. He`s also the father of three young children.
Now, Dr. Dale Archer, could this be an example of what they call in psychiatry, reaction formation, where one portrays oneself as the opposite of what you really are as a smokescreen to hide the truth?
DALE ARCHER, CLINICAL PSYCHIATRIST: Well, I think it could be a reaction formation, Jane, but that`s not what I really think is going on here.
Look, you made the point earlier that these folks are often in the most trusted of positions. That`s not by accident. They choose these positions because it puts them in contact with kids and by and large when you`re a teacher or you`re a preacher, you`re considered above suspicion. So they choose the profession in order to carry out --
(CROSSTALK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Not anymore. Not in today`s world after all the scandals.
(CROSSTALK)
ARCHER: I hope not.
For VELEZ-MITCHELL: example, a powerful, high ranking New York priest has been kicked out of the priesthood for alleged sexual abuse. A church tribunal found Monsignor Charles Cavanaugh guilty of molesting a teenage boy back in the `70s.
And who could forget mega church pastor Eddie Long? He`s been sued by four young men who claim they had inappropriate sexual relations with him as teenagers. The bishop denied the claims. But his latest strategy is, reportedly, to try and settle the lawsuits out of court. And according to published reports he gets his wish, nobody will ever know the details of whatever happened.
So you know, we don`t know exactly what`s happening with the settlement, but Anita Kay, you`re a former sex crimes prosecutor. In this new case involving this pastor, should prosecutors start looking at the kids who go to this church? And see if they`re ok?
ARCHER: Yes.
ANITA KAYE, FORMER SEX CRIMES PROSECUTOR: Oh, absolutely. Because it`s one thing you find these things on the compute. We don`t know if this was his first entry into child pornography, if he ever acted on it. But absolutely you want to start talking to the parents of kids because you certainly don`t want to cause a panic with the parents with the children. So you want to start talking to the parents and having the parents talk to the children, investigate it that way. You don`t want to scare the children or taint any type of investigation.
(CROSSTALK)
KAYE: But they may find more images on other computers and things like that that may lead them to further --
VELEZ-MITCHELL: They`ve got enough, honey. They`ve got enough. They`ve got 112.
But I understand what you`re saying. It could be -- it`s a network. Listen there are millions of people that use Limewire. There is only about 30 people who are indicted in this particular case.
Quinton, Ohio, your question or thought.
QUINTON, OHIO (via telephone): Yes. I have a comment. I would like -- you know, you hold these preachers high regard, and they`re going out and doing this, who do you -- how do you look up to somebody like this? You know, you see more and more cases of this every day, with teachers, preachers, as your other viewer was saying on here.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I know. What is going on? Is it just, Dr. Dale, that we`re finding out about it in today`s world, where we have the Internet and it`s been going on since time immemorial?
ARCHER: Yes, Jane. That`s absolutely you what it is. Because if you think about it, what does a sexual child predator need? He needs access to kids where people are going to trust him. What better than being a teacher or a preacher? So yes this has been going on forever. Finally it`s coming to light.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Again, we invite this pastor and/or his attorney or the church and their attorney on anytime to give their side of the story.
Ken Robinson, what about his kids? What`s happening with them tonight?
ROBINSON: Well, that we don`t know. We don`t know very much about his family life. And we do know that Reverend Mark Griggs is married to the co-pastor of the church, his wife. She also is very active in the church. She also has a music background.
What`s most troubling to me about this case is that Reverend Mark Griggs is a very educated man. This man has four degrees. He has a bachelor`s degree. He has two master`s degrees and a doctor of divinity degree. Here is a man who you would think reach out, realizing that he has a problem, maybe reach out his hand to a higher power saying, "Hey look, I have an addiction here. I need help. I need to do something about this." But apparently he kept going.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: That`s a great sentiment, but intelligence, background, social status have nothing to do with pedophilia if this man is in fact responsible. In fact, when you have a craving like that, it`s kind of like addiction. The superior intellect is hijacked by the craving and quite often makes for a more intractable pedophile because they can use their superior intelligence to manipulate the system to get what they want.
But thank you so much Ken, and the rest of our panel.
Mystery surrounds a teen mom`s death. Her body discovered shortly after she left her home in California and traveled to Arizona with her baby girl.
Plus, Casey Anthony back in court. The defense prepares for the worst. They want some witnesses kept secret from the public just in case she`s convicted. Who are these mystery players?
You`ve been tracking this case. Give me a holler, 1-877-JVM-SAYS. We`ll talk about it next.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CASEY ANTHONY, SUSPECT IN CHILD`S MURDER: You won`t let me -- come on.
CINDY ANTHONY, MOTHER OF CASEY ANTHONY: Casey hold on sweetheart. Settle down baby.
CASEY ANTHONY: Nobody is letting me speak. You want me to talk then --
CINDY ANTHONY: All right. I`ll listen to you.
CASEY ANTHONY: -- give me three seconds to say something.
CINDY ANTHONY: Go sweetheart.
CASEY ANTHONY: I`m not in control.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Casey`s defense fights to keep witnesses under wraps -- that in a moment.
But first, "Top of the Block" tonight.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Look at her. She`s so young and her life was cut short. So they`re going to do their utmost to make sure that the perpetrators and suspects are brought to justice.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: What a terrible tragedy here. A 19-year-old mom from California found dead over the weekend in Phoenix. Cops discovered Brittany Heinz`s body on the side of the road. And then they went on a frantic hunt for her 7-month-old baby.
It wasn`t until later they discovered her daughter was already mysteriously turned over to social services the day before Brittany`s body was found.
Brittany has no known ties to Arizona. It`s not clear why she was there. Now, I`m certainly not blaming the victim, but I think the moral of the story is, please always let your loved ones know where you`re going and why you`re going somewhere. We`ll, of course, give you the very latest developments if somebody is arrested for this woman`s death.
That is tonight`s "Top of the Block."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE ANTHONY: I have no idea, sir. I have no idea. I just answered that for you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I actually I asked --
G. ANTHONY: You -- you -- no. You asked me sir, if I had given my daughter money to pay. And I said no. You asked if my wife did and I said I have no idea you have to ask her. But somebody already ask that question sir, why don`t -- don`t -- be nice now. Be nice.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Once again, Casey Anthony`s poor dad dragged into the disturbing drama surrounding his daughter`s murder case, a fresh challenge for a man who has already endured so much.
We all remember people attacked George Anthony right on his own front lawn. You remember all this, the hosing, et cetera. That harsh questioning in the deposition we just played for you. George even reportedly contemplated suicide at one point.
Despite of all of that he`s always been there for her daughter who is accused of murdering her own daughter, Caylee.
Tonight George Anthony back in the spotlight again with a new batch of audiotapes just released to the public by the prosecution. In this clip you`re about to hear, a woman who claims to be a close confidant also claims to cops that George physically confronted his daughter Casey.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He threw her up against the wall and choked her.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ok, do you know why he threw her up against the wall and choked her?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Because he said "I know you killed her. What did you do with her?" And he choked her, and Cindy had to get George off of Casey.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right, will that exchange come up in the trial?
Meantime, a crucial hearing today: Casey in court, there she is, as her defense dream team tries to keep their witness list for the penalty phase of the trial secret. Why? Are they expecting a conviction?
ISSUES reached out to Casey`s attorneys who did not comment before air. They`re always invited on. George Anthony did not choose to comment either. He is always invited on. What is your theory? 1-877-JVM-SAYS.
Straight to famed bounty hunter, Leonard Padilla; Leonard, you bailed Casey out of jail. You were at the Anthony family home. What do you make of this woman`s story to cops that George confronted Casey over what happened to little Caylee?
LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER: Ok, the story about George confronting Casey is true, but it didn`t physically happen the way it was described by that lady. Tracy, my associate, was there that day when that situation took place. He didn`t get the opportunity to place hands on his daughter.
Cindy and his friend, an ex-police officer from Ohio, pulled him out of the room after Casey started hollering at him, "Why don`t you act like a father for once instead of acting like a cop?"
And at that time, Cindy and Jim came into the room, pulled her away. There was no physical contact between George and his daughter. Tracy was there and Tracy has already spoken about it to the FBI.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: So wait, this woman now if what you`re saying is true -- it exaggerates perhaps the truth, Anita Kay --
(CROSSTALK)
PADILLA: Yes absolutely, I don`t know who the woman is --
VELEZ-MITCHELL: -- you`re a former sex crimes prosecutor, will any of this come into the trial, Anita? And if so, will she be torn down given what you just heard?
ANITA KAY, FORMER PROSECUTOR & DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Oh, absolutely. This new witness that we`re talking about, I -- the problem is I don`t know when she talked to the police. And I did read that there was some other things that she had talked about her relationship she had with George Anthony. Now they`re just friends.
(CROSSTALK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Alleged.
KAY: Right. So a lot of this is going to be attacked. And as a prosecutor, you do want your witnesses to be credible. You absolutely want them to be credible. And if there are too many holes that you can poke at her, does she want her spotlight, does she want to testify and get on the stand because this is such a prominent case? Or is what she`s saying really the truth? Or is she trying to help the prosecution?
So sometimes witnesses like that can do actually more damage to the prosecution case --
(CROSSTALK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: They can boomerang. I call them boomerang witnesses.
KAY: Exactly.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Mauri, of Idaho, your question or thoughts?
MAURI, IDAHO: Well, I mean, the secret witness, the flurry of emotions. I mean, I know Mr. Baez is doing his job but, geez, when does long enough become long enough? You know, when is this going to go to trial?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, it`s scheduled to go to trial in May, and yes, we`ve all been wondering when the heck it`s going to go to trial. I think part of the problem, Bradford Cohen, is that more document dumps.
I mean, just reading all of this stuff, hundreds of thousands of pages, I can`t imagine how anybody could in their lifetime read all this. So no wonder it`s going to take -- and it could be pushed back from May too. We don`t know.
BRADFORD COHEN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: It could be. I mean, listen, trials are fluid. It`s no -- there`s never an absolute, set date unless all the discovery is done and all the investigation is done. And then there`s always more stuff to do.
As a -- as a defense attorney and even as a state attorney, your job is never done. I -- I -- I`ve been out on -- on scenes the night before trial thinking if there`s something else that I`m missing.
There is something always to be done in a trial. And in this case, this new information that came out --
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let me ask you about this. Casey`s dream team wants to keep their witness list for the death penalty phase secret. Of course, that`s a part of the trial that comes afterwards if she`s found guilty.
Normally defense witnesses during the penalty phase humanize and sympathize with the defendant. So what do you make of that, Dr. Dale Archer, that they`re trying to keep it secret because I guess some of these people have already been harassed for defending Casey.
ARCHER: Well, I think that they want to keep it secret for that reason, but also, look, the whole strategy here is very, very clear. They`re going to have so much information, so much out there, all they need is a shadow of a doubt to get her off. And that`s clearly their plan. No one can possibly --
(CROSSTALK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, but it`s the prosecution that`s dumping all this evidence that could confuse everyone.
Stay right there. More on the other side.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Maybe she should have never had a baby for -- a baby was stopping her from living live and partying and a lot of times it interfered with having a boyfriend, having a child. And that`s the only time she ever mentioned her baby.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: More new shocking evidence released by the prosecution in the Casey Anthony case. That was Casey`s fellow inmate, who also claimed Casey used chloroform to knock out little Caylee as she is the one who couldn`t pronounce the word chloroform, however. Ok. So that could hurt her credibility.
Is this damning evidence or are the words of this convicted killer, that`s right, that young lady`s a convicted killer, totally tainted?
Diane, Florida, your question or thought, ma`am?
DIANE, FLORIDA (via telephone): yes, hi, Jane. Thanks for all the good work you do. I just don`t understand, I`ve been following this case all along, there is so much evidence against her that it seems any jury with half a brain would convict this woman. Why don`t her attorneys encourage her to take a plea and at least, you know, she could maybe escape the death penalty? I don`t get it.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, that`s an excellent question. Anita Kay, you`re a former sex crimes prosecutor.
KAY: First of all, we don`t know what discussions the defense has had with the prosecution but the prosecution may not be making an offer. They may be saying, you know what, our offer is the death penalty. And no defense attorney is signing his client up for that.
So we don`t even know if there have been discussions because the prosecution doesn`t have to make an offer. And the judge can`t make an offer in this case. So she may be stuck going to trial even if she wants to take a plea bargain.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Bradford Cohen, you`re shaking your head.
COHEN: Because she`s being charged with first degree murder and we don`t even know the facts of the first degree -- you have someone coming in now that says she put chloroform on the baby to make her go to sleep. That`s not a first degree murder. We don`t know if they can prove a first degree murder right off the bat, number one.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Look --
COHEN: Number two is the evidence we`re seeing is only from the prosecution.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. There`s a big problem with the defense case. She waited a month to call police and tell anybody that her daughter was missing and she didn`t even do it. Her mother was the one who ultimately confronted her and called 911.
COHEN: Jane, does that prove --
VELEZ-MITCHELL: The biggest hurdle that the defense has is explaining that. Is it not, Leonard Padilla?
PADILLA: She`s got a lot of problems. When we were back there and since we`ve been back there, when we -- if you sit down at the table and take it from the night that she left the house, to when she went back to try to bury her in the backyard --
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Whoa, whoa, whoa.
PADILLA: Alleged.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Come on.
COHEN: It doesn`t prove first degree murder. You guys are talking about a first degree premeditated murder. You can say --
PADILLA: I`m not saying it proves first degree murder.
(CROSSTALK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hold on. One at a time. Ok. Let`s stick with alleged. Let`s stick with alleged here. Nobody`s been convicted.
We have another clip of the police interview with the woman who claimed to be a close confidante of George. Here she describes George Anthony in a profoundly emotional state. Check this out.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I caught him on a bad moment and he was crying and he said, "Look it was an accident. It just snowballed out of control.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ok. But he never said to you how he knew that -- how he knew it was an accident?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, and I didn`t want to ask.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Is that ever going to come into trial, Anita Kay? You`re the former prosecutor.
KAY: I don`t think so, because the problem is you have George, or you have Casey relating to George. George is relating to Krystal and now Krystal is going to come into court.
It`s too many levels of hearsay, too many levels of other people saying things that can`t be corroborated.
(CROSSTALK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, all I`m saying is, if there`s overwhelming number of -- overwhelming amount of information you can create confusion and sometimes confusion amounts to reasonable doubt.
Nancy is up next.
END
