Return to Transcripts main page

Nancy Grace

Anatomy of a Car Chase

Aired December 30, 2010 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Cops try to pull over the red Jeep, but it takes off, the Jeep reaching speeds of up to 100 miles per hour, driving the wrong way down the highway, exiting, now weaving through homes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Try a pit maneuver or something. They`ve got to get this guy to stop.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The chase through busy Miami suburbs, the car speeding on the sidewalk, almost hitting a tree, narrowly missing a construction worker. Police ram the vehicle, but a suspect now taking off, running.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) gate. He`s on the runway.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The suspect drives the stolen pick-up truck through a security gate at the airport, the chase now on the runway, airplane passengers at risk.

Now cops chasing the woman down California freeways, the woman wildly doing donuts around police officers. She`s exiting the car and gesturing towards police, but the car is still moving.

The big rig has been stolen, but the driver of the rig is on the back of it, the truck speeding down I-75. The driver could fall off the truck at any moment. Shots fired. How do these criminals put lives at risk? Car chases going out of control.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ELEANOR ODOM, GUEST HOST: Good evening. I`m Eleanor Odom, in tonight for Nancy Grace. Breaking tonight, car chases. They can turn deadly in an instant. First tonight to Missouri, where a Jeep Wrangler`s been stolen, police in pursuit at speeds up to 100 miles per hour. And that`s not all. This thief drives through back yards. And you can see it right there on the video. This Jeep is going everywhere.

Let`s go straight to Mike Brooks, HLN law enforcement analysts. Mike, what`s going on with this chase?

MIKE BROOKS, FORMER D.C. POLICE, HLN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: I tell you, this guy, when he was -- (INAUDIBLE) there were two people in the Jeep. Now, they were driving across lawns, through back yards. In fact, during the chase, this guy wound up with a -- basically, a signpost through the grill, one through the windshield. He was wanted on felony warrants. It started in Kansas City, Missouri, went all through the suburbs, crossed the river into Kansas City, Kansas, where he was finally caught.

But you talk about danger. Now, when someone is -- when they`re running from the police, why do people think they can always get away? You can`t because what can you not escape, Eleanor? You can`t escape that eye in the sky.

ODOM: Exactly. And Mike, if you`ll look at this, this guy is driving through neighborhoods, neighborhoods where children live, where there are playgrounds nearby, putting those children and others at risk. What are you going to do with a person like this, Mike, if you`re the one chasing him?

BROOKS: Well, you`ve got to decide, as the police supervisor, whether you`re going to go ahead and let your units chase, or are you going to break off the chase? Because different departments have different chase policies. Now, I know the California Highway Patrol -- we`re going to look at a case from there. They told me -- one of the troopers there, they told me, Mike, we`ll chase him until the wheels fall off.

ODOM: Well, and here we`re looking at Kansas City, Missouri, and the guy`s -- again, you see, he`s crashing through a fence, going through somebody`s back yard.

BROOKS: See the signpost right through the windshield?

ODOM: Exactly.

BROOKS: And the passenger tried to throw something out, but this was kind of the beginning of the end here. You saw him try to go through it, but then right over a fence again. I was working this Eleanor. I ran this on HLN -- right in between houses. And if you`re going to go -- if you`re going to go across -- off road, what better vehicle to have than a Jeep?

But the Jeep, again, was unable to elude officers, and went from the interstate onto private roads. Now, you`re right, when you get onto private side streets, it gets to be very dangerous. And you see a unit there? Didn`t engage him because a lot of times, one of the things you want to try to do is -- if you get the opportunity, is to perform a pit maneuver.

ODOM: OK, and I want to stop you right there because we`re not quite at a pit maneuver.

I want to go to C.W. Jensen, retired Portland police, and ask you, how do you know when to start an official chase?

C.W. JENSEN, RETIRED PORTLAND POLICE CAPTAIN: Well, usually, what happens is, you get behind a vehicle. There`s something that gets your attention, whether there`s some creeps that are driving, it you don`t feel good about them, or you run the plate, it`s expired, or stole or something like that. You light it up. And boom, they hit the gas and off you go. And so the problem isn`t when to start it, the problem for police is when to end it. Do you continue all the way through until (INAUDIBLE), or do you back off and try to get to him some other way? And that`s a real problem these days...

ODOM: And C.W. Jensen, when you`re in a situation like this, when you`re going through back yards in the residential areas, how do you decide when to end the chase?

JENSEN: Well, it depends. If there`s a lot of pedestrians out, if there`s a lot of traffic moving, you know, those things are going to tip the scale kind of to, Hey, let`s back off, this guy`s nuts. But you start wondering -- this guy`s going through fences. He`s going through back yards. He almost impales himself with that wood that goes through the windshield. So you have to start wondering, why does this guy want to get away so bad? You know, is it going to be more dangerous to the public if I let him go or if I back off or get right after him? That`s the problem.

ODOM: And exactly. And you can see in this -- I might mention that just a minute ago, you see things being thrown out the window. Why are they throwing things out? Well, it comes to mind that they`ve got something in the car that they don`t want the officers to find out.

And I`m just sitting here thinking of possible charges. There`s so many here -- attempting to elude, perhaps child endangerment, criminal damage to property.

Let`s go to out defense attorneys, Peter Odom, defense attorney out of Atlanta, Renee Rockwell, also defense attorney out of Atlanta. Renee -- Renee, there he is, driving down the highway, almost impaling himself with a piece of wood, throwing things out the window. What are you going to say to the judge?

RENEE ROCKWELL, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, first of all, if nobody`s injured, then everybody has a better ending, rather than when somebody is running with -- maybe -- let`s say it`s just a stolen car and they end up killing somebody. It goes from something which is a property offense, Eleanor, to a vehicular homicide. So everything`s going to be dependent on what is ultimately, at the end of the day, whether you have bodies lying around, or whether somebody`s just made off with a stolen car property offense.

ODOM: Well, you made a good point, especially he might have been one of the bodies being impaled on that wooden stake. But Peter, what are you going to say to the judge? What is your best defense for something that`s caught on camera?

PETER ODOM: Well, this chase started because -- I mean, the police decided to chase him because he ran. And he ran because the police decided to chase him. It really was...

ODOM: Oh, my goodness!

(CROSSTALK)

ODOM: All right...

PETER ODOM: It really was the chase that -- it really was the chase that...

BROOKS: And always -- one of the things I can always tell you -- J.W. will agree with me -- you always have to assume that the person you`re chasing is considered armed and dangerous because you don`t know -- you don`t know what`s inside that car. Peter, have you ever been in a chase? I don`t think so. I have.

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Every car`s potentially a terrorist, and that...

BROOKS: Every car -- this car`s a weapon!

ODOM: All right, well, let`s...

BROOKS: Don`t get me started on terrorism! Remember, I was on the JTTF, so...

ODOM: Yes, and mike makes some good points. But also, you`ve got to have something to say to the judge because you have, as Mike said, the eye in the sky. You`ve got this all on tape. There`s not a whole lot you`re going to be able to do with this when it comes right down to defending many, many charges.

Now, C.W. Jensen, I want to ask you a little bit about pit maneuvers. We heard about that a few minutes ago. What is a pit maneuver?

JENSEN: Well, I think any of your viewers that watch NASCAR are kind of familiar with kind of a pit maneuver. What you want to do -- and you generally do this at speeds under 45 miles an hour -- you get up there with your front quarter panel of your car, the front of your car, and you get up to their rear quarter panel, and you turn into their car. Generally, your police car will continue going straight, and the suspect vehicle will generally turn around, and a lot of the time, it stalls out, or other officers can arrive at the same time. So...

BROOKS: Eleanor...

(CROSSTALK)

ODOM: Well, and let me just come to you, Mike. I want to ask you, how successful are pit maneuvers generally?

BROOKS: They`re generally good, but one of the big mistakes I see all the time with law enforcement -- and we got this guy out on foot now with law enforcement right behind him -- one of the big mistakes they make during a pit maneuver is they don`t just follow it through. They`ll go ahead, hit the rear quarter panel, and then stop and not accelerate through the turn to spin that person all the way out.

ODOM: And as Mike said just a minute ago, you can see the defendant. He`s gotten out of the car. He`s running. And again, going back to you, Peter, what are you going to say now? What is your best defense when he`s running away from the police? We`ve got eluding right now.

PETER ODOM: Well, with the way this video looks, he`s going to need a good defense because he was -- that was just some crazy driving there. But really, he wasn`t arrested for very major offenses. He had felony warrants out for him, but they weren`t for violent offenses. The police really should only use these pit maneuvers and engage in these chases, which can turn so deadly, with the greatest justification. You shouldn`t just start chasing someone because they`re acting suspicious.

(CROSSTALK)

BROOKS: ... cops put their gun away if it`s not violent felonies!

ODOM: Well, you`ve got to do what you`ve got to do when you`re the police officer. And one thing you have to do is to stop the person, and you have to stop them safely.

PETER ODOM: For what, because had he some marijuana in the car?

ODOM: Exactly, because that`s a crime, too. And he`s the one who`s fleeing.

I want to go to Dr. Janet Taylor, psychiatrist out of New York, and try to get into a little bit of the psyche of somebody. And Dr. Taylor, you`re seeing him. He`s actually climbed onto a roof to try to escape the police. What`s going on in somebody`s mind when they`re trying to elude?

DR. JANET TAYLOR, PSYCHIATRIST: Well, either they`ve done something wrong, or they have something wrong going on either in their head -- it`s self-induced, whether it`s alcohol or drugs, or maybe they could have a psychotic disorder, which I highly doubt. I think the bottom line is there`s a little bit of paranoia that happens when you pull up to a stop sign. You know you have a warrant. Maybe you know you have something you need to throw out of your car. And you incredibly think that you`re going to get away from police and the eye in the sky. I mean, it`s ridiculous. You can`t get away!

ODOM: You can`t get away, as we can see quite clearly from this. Mike Brooks, going back to you, what do we know about this guy`s criminal history, or if he had one?

BROOKS: Well, he did. He had -- he had some felony warrants from Missouri, but now we`re in Kansas, so just across the bridge, Kansas City, you can go either way with that. But now, look where he is. He`s basically proned (ph) out on the roof of a burnt-out business, and they`re probably going to wait for fire department to try to get this guy off the roof because, hey, if I`m a law enforcement officer, and I`m -- if I`m -- if I`m going to go -- am I going to go up on that burned-out building? No. Absolutely not!

ODOM: And we can see him right now. He`s actually climbing down. The fire department`s been called in. They`re the ones who are helping him get down. And as he gets down, what are police likely to do, C.W. Jensen?

JENSEN: Well, 30 years ago, we would have -- you know what. They probably just handcuff him and take him away to jail, start processing him.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ODOM: I`m Eleanor Odom, sitting in for Nancy Grace. Tonight to Florida and a car chase that turned out to be very difficult for the driver of this car. Mike, what`s going on here?

BROOKS: Well, they saw a suspicious vehicle, coral Springs Police Department, and they went to pull it over. He refused. The car refused to pull over, so they decided to chase. They decided to go ahead and break the chase off, but they gave a lookout to the other local law enforcement agencies. And Broward County sheriff`s office -- they saw the vehicle, attempted to pull over, and it was on!

ODOM: I can see that. Now, suspicious vehicle -- to C.W. Jensen, retired Portland police, tell me about that. When an officer sees a suspicious vehicle, why is that something that they may be drawn to and why they would want to follow?

JENSEN: You know, a lot of times, you look at who`s driving it. Vehicles aren`t suspicious, people are suspicious. And so you see some people, and you know, after you`ve been a cop for a while, you just get that feeling. And so you begin to follow him. You run the plate, you do that kind of thing. They do something wrong, and you go to stop them and see what they`re doing. It happens every single day, and every police officer does it. And it`s just a feeling. And this -- it was a feeling on this one that these guys were crooks, and the cops were right.

ODOM: Well, and Mike Brooks, what happened after? You said they called off the chase. What happened next?

BROOKS: Right. Well, a sheriff`s deputy from Broward County -- you started out with Coral Springs, now you`ve got Broward County, another law enforcement agency -- saw this vehicle, went to pull it over. It refused to pull over, started off at a high rate of speed, and the chase was on.

Now, during the chase, went through neighborhoods, went through interstate, neighborhoods. In fact, one time, you could see the vehicle looked like it was going to stop and you saw the door open. That was just a ruse. The door closed back again, and the chase was on through commercial areas, through residential areas. Again, very, very dangerous. But Broward County sheriffs right behind the vehicle.

ODOM: And C.W. Jensen, are you familiar with -- well, I`m sure you are -- BOLO and what that means?

JENSEN: Yes, it`s different in every jurisdiction. BOLO means "be on the lookout." So other people call it APB, all points bulletin, things like that. What you do is you`re putting out information not just to your jurisdiction but to cops all over the area that this is what happened, vehicle was chased by one jurisdiction that got away, or the pursuit was terminated, but they want everybody around to know what`s going on. And that`s what happened. Another officer took down the information, and then he sees the car and starts yet another chase.

ODOM: So be on the lookout. That`s something very common with law enforcement. That tells the officers, Look out for that car. All right, Mike Brooks. What are we seeing now?

BROOKS: Well, you see the car -- you know, it almost looked like they were trying to perform a pit maneuver, but it wasn`t good. There you (INAUDIBLE) there`s on right there. Now you see other vehicles (INAUDIBLE) and now you have a bail-out (ph). A lot of times during chases, Eleanor, you`ll see -- oh, and there`s -- not going too far. Once -- a lot of times you`ll see about the third car back in a chase, it`ll be a K9 unit. They work very well. And boom! What do you see there? You saw that person being tasered. See how effective that taser is? Again, it`s less than lethal force! He refused to stop! They didn`t pull their weapons! They pulled a taser and took that person down!

ODOM: And this person certainly was deserving of that because as we saw, not only was he eluding police, he almost hit people along this chase. The chase lasted for quite some time. This was a very dangerous situation.

Now, Renee Rockwell, I notice that there`s more than one person in the car.

ROCKWELL: Yes.

ODOM: Are you going to be able to defend all of them? Because they`re all going to be charged at this point.

ROCKWELL: OK. And here`s the situation. And let me just address Brooksie here. Brooks, you used to be a police officer. Tell the truth. Cops love chases. Yes or no?

BROOKS: Oh, I mean, a chase -- it`s not -- it`s good. But you always -- as you`re -- you`re a professional, you have to keep your adrenaline in check. Do we love chases? You know what? I rather -- I`d love to go home at the end of my tour with no injuries. That`s the whole thing you want to do.

ROCKWELL: OK, and...

BROOKS: But you know what, though? If you`re involved in a chase, you have to be very, very professional.

ODOM: But the thing that we have to remember here is, whether or not a cop loves chase -- and I know defense attorneys are going to say, Oh, it`s just the cops doing what they love. But the bottom line here -- it`s not the cop breaking the law, Renee!

ROCKWELL: It is not, but...

ODOM: It`s that defendant who is eluding the police!

ROCKWELL: OK...

ODOM: So what are you going to say?

ROCKWELL: What you`re going to say is that as long as these departments allow these full-blown chases, it tells me one thing, that the state has not had to dip into their pocket and pay for the wrongful death when a police officer in chasing somebody -- let`s say all this is, is a stolen car or a joy ride...

BROOKS: Hold on, Renee!

(CROSSTALK)

ROCKWELL: That`s fine, but what happens when you run over or -- you saw that pit maneuver there. What if that car would have taken out a family...

BROOKS: What if -- what if...

(CROSSTALK)

BROOKS: ... and what if they had gone down the street, gotten out and shot somebody? What if that!

ODOM: But let`s also remember "What ifs" didn`t happen. We`re talking about how this accident went down, how this person eluded police. Why...

ROCKWELL: I still think that it`s a dangerous situation. And if you don`t know absolutely that this car`s full of people that are going to commit a violent offense, then I think that it`s better not to engage in this because who usually gets killed are the innocent bystanders.

ODOM: Well, and again, you haven`t really answered the question. Peter Odom, how are you going to defend some of the other people in the car?

PETER ODOM: Well, the police started this chase because they were curious about the car. I didn`t think we lived in a country where the police could just pull people over at random because they were curious.

ODOM: OK...

PETER ODOM: This is a chase that should not have happened.

ODOM: And I hear what you`re saying...

PETER ODOM: It started -- there was not an offense committed at all. The police thought he looked suspicious and so they started chasing. He was running because the police were chasing him...

(CROSSTALK)

BROOKS: That`s what it became, a felony!

PETER ODOM: The police...

BROOKS: That`s what happened!

PETER ODOM: The police...

BROOKS: And that`s the bottom line! No, cops don`t like to chase! They like to put bad guys in jail! Three people went to jail! That`s the bottom line!

PETER ODOM: The police created this situation.

BROOKS: Oh, yes! Always the police`s fault!

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ODOM: I`m Eleanor Odom, sitting in tonight for Nancy Grace. Straight out to Texas for a car chase that is quite interesting. Mike Brooks, what is going on with this?

BROOKS: Well, this car -- apparently, got started -- this chase started, and now they`re on the field. They -- he crashed through a fence and is now on the -- on the -- basically, the taxiways for Love Field. And I`ve heard that law enforcement actually authorized the use of deadly force in this particular one because now I`m going to have -- (INAUDIBLE) hear what the attorneys have to say about this one! (INAUDIBLE) local, and as soon as you crash through that gate, you`re on restricted area, and what they call a side area of an airport, and now you are involved in a felony!

ODOM: Yes, he actually crashed through the gate at the airport. Now, I`ve heard of people wanting to avoid TSA patdowns, but this is ridiculous! He`s going straight through the fence. And I`m thinking, Renee, at this point, he could be facing some serious federal charges.

ROCKWELL: Absolutely. Any time you`re on any kind of federal reservation or any type of federal property, you`re looking at just getting jacked up totally. But what`s happening here is that he`s somewhere where he can actually take out an entire airplane that`s full of passengers and also full of fuel. So you know that they`re going to respond very aggressively with this particular vehicle.

BROOKS: There was a Southwest Airline flight getting ready to take off, a total of four aircraft, before you saw that red pick-up truck, which has been -- was -- has been involved in this chase all along, speed past (INAUDIBLE) and pull a pit maneuver and pit this guy out right on the grass.

ODOM: Well, and you`ve got to consider, too, who knows? This could have been a terrorist, whoever, with explosives in the car, driving to -- on an airfield. So you`ve got that situation on top of everything else. You can see right there, Mike, where they have done the pit maneuver, and quite successfully, I might add.

Peter Odom, to you. What are you going to do with this case? What are you going to do about the damage to that airfield?

PETER ODOM: Not much can you do about it. The only plea that this guy is going to have is that this chase started out innocuously enough. The police really didn`t have much reason to even start this chase. And because of the police conduct, it matured into something much, much more serious.

ODOM: Peter, you know, I find that amusing because you want to focus on the police conduct.

PETER ODOM: Right.

ODOM: What I like to focus on is the defendant`s conduct, the fact that he`s driving onto an airfield. He broke through a fence. He is going onto the runway, where there are planes that want to land and take off. This is an extremely dangerous situation.

Straight out to C.W. Jensen. Have you seen a chase that has been as dangerous as this in terms of lives of people that could be at stake?

JENSEN: Oh, this is pretty wild. I mean, I`ve seen a lot of stuff in my time, but this is crazy. Getting out on the airport -- they had to authorize deadly force for a few minutes, but they did authorize that pit maneuver, and as we saw, that`s what finally stopped this thing before he could get out where the planes were.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ODOM: I`m Eleanor Odom, sitting in tonight for Nancy Grace. We`re talking about potentially deadly car chases. And we`re looking at one now in California. Mike Brooks, would you tell us a little bit about what`s going on in this video.

MIKE BROOKS, HLN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: First of all, I`ve never seen a California highway patrol chasing a toaster on wheels. That`s what it looks like they`re chasing.

But this woman, and again, you heard me right, a woman, which we don`t see very often, she eluded police on the interstate, turned back around again in Orange County. It was almost a 40 mile pursuit that she led law enforcement on. And I`m surprised this vehicle got up to the speeds it could without tipping over.

ODOM: You said this was a woman. Do you know if this person had a criminal record?

BROOKS: Not sure, but from the way she acted it sounds like she may have some kind of altered mental status because to run from the police in this type of vehicle, you have to.

ODOM: And if I`m not mistaken, she actually gets out of the car at one point, makes some gestures at the police officers and gets back into the car as it`s kind of rolling away. You can see her right here, right now. She`s having to jump back into the car. Can you believe that?

I mean, Dr. Taylor, can you tell me what`s going on? I think we definitely need a psychiatrist to explain this one.

DR. JANET TAYLOR, MD, MPH PSYCHIATRIST: Typically it is men. In this case I think she had some underlying mental disorder. She just showed a complete disregard not only for the police, but herself, and the safety of others. It`s pretty clear she has some underlying mental disorder going on.

ODOM: Dr. Taylor, you mentioned men being more aggressive with the performance of the car chases. But were you surprised to see a woman exhibiting this behavior?

TAYLOR: I actually was, because it`s rare you see women who go on these car chases. Typically, not to stereotype women, we`re more concerned about what`s going to happen, who we can hit. Men, if they want to get away, they may be more likely to be involved in something that would cause them to have to flee suddenly, and keep up on the chase. That testosterone kind of fuels them and so that`s why you typically see more men.

ODOM: C.W. Jensen, has it been your experience with these types of chases that it has in fact more often men?

C.W. JENSEN, RETIRED PORTLAND POLICE CAPTAIN: Men are usually driving the cars, unless they`re suspended, they don`t have warrants. Sometimes that`s kind of a trigger too, when you see a woman driving a guy around in the car, and you wonder, I wonder if he`s not driving for a reason. My experience, and many times that`s exactly it, they`re afraid to get in trouble because they`re not supposed to drive.

This case was strange because of the behavior of the woman. I think about halfway through when she got out and started screaming and yelling, she wasn`t as dangerous outside of the car as she is in the car and obviously had some problems and they reacted to that and took her out.

ODOM: And again you see another pit maneuver that cops are doing, these are usually very successful. You can see her screaming again out of the window. Mike Brooks, what do you make of that?

BROOKS: This started at 6:05 in the morning for a call for a woman screaming. They got there, and she took off. She attempted to hit at least police vehicles three times, initially when the chase started. And you see she has been pitted out by CHP. She gets out of it, spins back around, and that little car is really doing a good job of alluding the CHP cruisers.

ODOM: Renee, what type of charges do you see her facing at this point?

RENEE ROCKWELL, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Besides, her only defense could be, the car did it. You see the car keeps going after she jumps out.

ODOM: Well, that`s not going to work, because the car does not have a mind of its own. Let`s go on from there.

ROCKWELL: You see a mental defense all over this right now. I mean, look at her, she gets out, she`s gesturing to the police, I think maybe she flipped them off.

But absolutely -- bad morning, bad hair day. Look -- you have to give it to her. She`s having a whole lot of fun. I hate to say -- you notice they probably took the cameras off after they arrested her, I have a feeling she might have gotten a little bit of a beat down --

ODOM: Well, Renee, I think that is just assuming things, assuming facts not in evidence, as we say. But I like the way you think with the mental defense.

Mike Brooks, what do we have here? What are we seeing here in this part of the chase?

BROOKS: Well, it seems like she slowed down a little bit, and you see the cars move ago side. One of the good things in California, they will put chases over the radio, tell people to avoid certain places. And you see her, this is when she got out and gestured police. She could have been flipped under the wheel of the cars.

And these are not fun. Keep in mind that so far in 2010 four law enforcement officers have died in the line of duty during vehicle pursuits. So these are very, very dangerous and need to be taken seriously. Sometimes the drivers don`t, but law enforcement does.

ODOM: That brings me to an interesting question. Peter Odom, mike mentioned so many of these resulted in death. We saw a lot of damage to the car. How did these defendants begin to make restitution in these cases?

PETER ODOM, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Restitution is always going to be a part of any sentence if these people are convicted. The reason that many law enforcement agencies have started to have policies backing off of these chases before they begin is because they`re so deadly. These chases keep going down year by year because police departments realize that most of them don`t need to happen.

Now, in contrast to some of the other chases we`ve seen, this woman started out by assaulting several police officer vehicles with her car. I don`t think the police had a choice but to start chasing her.

ODOM: I`m so glad to hear you finally agree with the prosecution on that, and I think you`re going to have a pleasant evening because of that. But I do want to go to C.W. Jensen and ask, what do you see when the adrenaline kicks in as they`re leading police on a chase?

JENSEN: The thing is you have absolutely no idea why someone is going to run. It may be because they`re a youngster, and they`re simply scared. They have nothing else wrong. Or they`re a violent criminal. That`s the tough thing about these chases.

But you get started and you have to follow them, what we do now is, as supervisors, we will terminate chases, if there`s no real clear reason why the chase is occurring. And many, many times the officers themselves that are involved in the chase these days, because of their good training will terminate the chase as well. And then everyone just starts looking for the vehicle. Many, many times what we`ll do is an hour later you`ll find the car dumped somewhere and everyone gone.

ODOM: Mike, do you see in your experience any type of predictability in these car chases?

BROOKS: No, they`re totally unpredictable. They are. That`s why a lot of the departments have changed their policy. Dallas, for instance, back in 2004, they had 361 chases. But they changed their policy to only chase in the event of violent felonies, and so far in 2010, only 24.

ODOM: Only 24?

BROOKS: They`ve had 24 chases.

ODOM: I think it`s important that these police departments have changed their policies and they`re really only chasing the ones that absolutely necessary. In this case, they did have to continue the chase. Mike, you made an interesting point too, you said California keeps up the chase, no matter what.

BROOKS: California Highway Patrol, they will chase you until the wheels fall off. They have such a great mutual aid between the California Highway Patrol and the local law enforcement, we see chases all the time, orange county, L.A., just had one the other day in L.A.

So we see that all the time, but they have a great mutual aid, a total of nine helicopters statewide in the California Highway Patrol operates. So you`re not going to try to outrun them that`s for sure.

ODOM: In this case she attempted to hit several different police officers. Dr. Taylor, is there any way that you can provide any sense of help to law enforcement when they`re facing this aggressive assault?

TAYLOR: They have all the training. And the bottom line is, my hat goes off to them because they don`t know who`s behind the wheel of the car. Their training protects us, and thank goodness they have it.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ODOM: I`m Eleanor Odom sitting in tonight for Nancy Grace. Deadly car chases, car chases that go everywhere, for hours, for miles, and they can turn deadly. We`re looking at one that a lot of us in Atlanta remember. Mike Brooks, tell us a little bit about this chase?

BROOKS: This was crazy. It started in South Fulton County. This truck, the driver was making a pickup, ran into a cellular store, saw this guy jumping into his truck, and saw it take off.

He ran outside, jumped on the back of the truck. And then law enforcement got involved down I-75 for 50 miles. But the guy had his cell phone with him and he was on the back of this trailer, the tractor part of the tractor-trailer, and he was -- you can see him hanging on for dear life giving police updates from the back of the truck.

ODOM: I cannot believe this. I want to back up a second. When this guy went out and saw his truck being stolen, was there any type of force used on that individual?

BROOKS: No, he just jumped right on the back, and they took off for a long 50 miles down I-75. And we see him hanging on the back. He decided when they put out spike strips, they flatten tires. You can see the back tires starting to tear apart. He`s still hanging on the back, and he decides when it gets to a certain speed, he was going to jump off.

This guy, you talk about brave, he jumps off, jumps back up brushes himself off like nothing happened. Then you see in the end that law enforcement, they did what they had to do.

ODOM: We`re getting to that, but I want to talk a little bit about stop sticks. C.W. Jensen, can you explain what is a stop stick?

JENSEN: Generally either you roll it up or have different sections. But if you`ve ever looked under your carpet, it has wood and then little nails sticking out. That`s basically the idea.

You put this out, and if someone drives over it, the idea is that the nails or spikes or other metal will tear up the tires and then ultimately, the crooks usually keep going until as you see, the rubber starts flying off the tires, they`re down to the actual wheel. and ultimately, you`re not supposed to be driving on wheels, and ultimately you`ll dig into the pavement and start a fire and it generally ends a chase.

So if you can get ahead of the bad guys, then can you get these down and what you hope is that you have enough of them that they can`t get around them, and it will blow out their tires.

ODOM: Isn`t that a little dangerous for the police officers to put stop strips on the street when this car is coming down the road?

JENSEN: Yes, absolutely. It isn`t something you do when the car is 100 meters away, you do this when you can get ahead -- let`s say a mile or so on the freeway or a surface street, you can get these things down, and then can you get to cover and get out of the way.

BROOKS: There`s a California Highway Patrol throwing out stops, the spike strips, on a chase which was hit and killed by the vehicle that law enforcement was chasing.

ODOM: And isn`t it true, Mike, that you also have to be extremely careful because other cars are also coming down the road and you don`t want those other cars to hit the stop sticks.

BROOKS: You bring up a great point. Just a few years ago also two Orange County -- actually Palm Beach County sheriff`s deputies were out in Lake Okeechobee, grabbing the strips, pulling them back and they were hit by a vehicle.

So it`s very dangerous to deploy them or pick them up, this vehicle here, you see the battery cover flying off there, and it`s just flattened all the tires, and now he`s running on aluminum.

ODOM: He`s going and going and going. Dr. Taylor, again, we need a psychiatrist to explain this one to us. Here he is driving on his rims. What`s going on with this type of person to keep going and going?

TAYLOR: My bigger question is, who jumps on the back of a truck and rides for 50 miles?

(LAUGHTER)

BROOKS: Exactly.

TAYLOR: Let it go. It`s hard to know the motivation until they`re stopped. But again, my hat goes off to law enforcement who safely are putting their life on the line to stop this madness and get these people who have these huge amounts of metal off the streets. It`s terrifying to watch.

ODOM: Exactly. And Peter Odom, here`s your client. He`s driving on his rim, and he`s going to get some additional jail time because he has somebody on the back of the tractor-trailer. What are you going to do?

PETER ODOM: What I`m seeing in this video is that until the police stop him with the stop sticks he was driving at a safe and appropriate speed within his lane of travel.

ODOM: What? I can`t believe you are saying that with a straight face.

PETER ODOM: Look at the video. He`s as straight as an arrow. He stole the truck, I know that. If I was going to be inconspicuous, I probably wouldn`t steal a red truck. But that`s just me.

ODOM: Renee, what are you going to do? This guy`s in front of the judge, and you have to explain away the poor victim on the back of the tractor-trailer.

ROCKWELL: That`s not a case that`s going to go to trial. He needs to thank his lucky stars, what started out as a property offense almost turned into a vehicular homicide. Had that victim who jumped on the back, putting himself at risk, had he gotten killed, it would have been a homicide, and then you`re looking at life.

ODOM: Well, you are, you still have a defendant who`s a looney. Let`s call that an aggravated assault or battery. We have speeding, failure to yield, endangerment. The charges just go on and on. I`m wondering, Mike Brooks, does this guy have a record?

BROOKS: I believe he did have a record, and I also believe he may have been under the influence of something when this took place because he resisted arrest and everything else. Did you see when the guy jumped off? Did you see his sneakers? You saw a white puff of smoke. That`s the rubber from his sneakers. That guy is lucky to be alive.

ODOM: That`s frightening. And you know this guy. We just saw his criminal record, he`s a thief. He likes to steal things and he stole this truck, this tractor-trailer. So, you know, a leopard doesn`t change his spots, he`s just going on and on with that.

Now, C.W. Jensen, if you`re the officer, you`re following this guy on the chase, would you attempt a pit maneuver on the tractor-trailer?

JENSEN: Well, no, it`s not really appropriate to use a car against a tractor-trailer. Plus, you have the victim on the back of the truck. So I`ve seen big rigs wreck. It didn`t -- I think they were really worried that to get this thing -- it was good they had they had the spike strips to slowly stop it. They weren`t trying anything crazy.

The one thing I think is more important is, trust me, if someone wants to take your car, whether a carjacking or a theft like this, you don`t want to go and try to get onto the vehicle or in the vehicle. Let him get away. Your car has license plates on it. We will find it. We`ll do the job. But this guy really could have lost his life over a truck.

ODOM: And you make an excellent point. Let it go. A tractor trailer can be replaced but a human life cannot. And, Mike Brooks, what is your concern as an officer in the fact that the victim is hanging on the back of this tractor trailer?

BROOKS: Well, you never know what`s going to happen. You never know if this person who is driving is going to start driving erratically, if they found out he was on the back, try to throw him off of the back. But that guy was hanging on for dear life, and I guess he wanted to make sure that his investment was taken well care of, but he almost lost his life over his truck.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The man driving the dark Nissan Ultima robs a bank.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Nine-one-one, what is your emergency?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The McClintock and Warner Bank of America someone just ran in and is robbing the bank right now. They`re getting -- I was walking in and a guy ran out of his car and said get on the ground. I`d seen him run in. He was at the teller windows and I was laying on the ground and started watching him and just ran past the parking lot.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Seconds later the police chase ensues at speeds upwards of 90 miles per hour. The suspect takes police from Tempe to chandler, racing on the 101.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This pursuit went through multiple East Valley cities involving multiple jurisdictions, different jurisdictions pursuing at different times.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He exits heading east accelerating. Then in what could be a suicidal act the car crosses lanes, and this the aftermath, an innocent driver in the white car, the lone suspect in the other car both died instantly.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is a tragedy where somebody lost their lives and we were processing the scene and we`ll continue the investigation.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Multiple agencies respond. Multiple agencies now have a new investigation, which will most certainly force them to review their chase policies.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ODOM: I`m Eleanor Odom sitting in for Nancy Grace. I want to finish up with this car chase in Atlanta. Mike Brooks, how did this chase end?

BROOKS: Once it finally came to a stop on the shoulder of the road, also off into the dirt with all flat tires, they had to wrestle this guy out of the truck and place him under arrest. In fact, he went before the judge and he was denied bond because the judge thought he was a flight risk.

ODOM: Dr. Janet Taylor any way you could have predicted behavior of this particular individual?

TAYLOR: It is extremely difficult to predict behavior, so that`s why there are standards that we use when we`re assessing people. And number one is it`s completely unpredictable. You stick to your standards, value safety, and really understand that you don`t know exactly what`s going on in somebody`s mind until you have them subdued safely.

ODOM: Tonight`s let`s stop to remember Army Sergeant Andrew J. Derrick, 25-year-old from Columbia South Carolina, killed Iraq. He was awarded the Bronze Star, Purple Heart, and Army Achievement Medal. He loved volunteering at Ronald McDonald`s house, sports, and playing the cello. He is remembered for his sparkling blue eyes, dimples, and being a man of his word.

He leaves behind mother Susie, step father Kerry, brother William, and sister Elizabeth. Andrew J. Derrick, American hero.

Thank you to all of our guests and to you for being with us. See you tomorrow night 8:00 sharp eastern. And until then, good night, everybody.

END