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American Morning
Tragedy in Tucson; Heroes Emerged From Tragedy; Time to Dial it Down?
Aired January 10, 2011 - 08:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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T.J. HOLMES, CNN ANCHOR: Top of the hour here now. Good morning to you all on this Monday, January the 10th. And welcome to a special edition of AMERICAN MORNING. I'm T.J. Holmes in New York.
I want to say hello to Kiran Chetry, who's joining us now live from Tucson, Arizona. Hello to you, Kiran.
KIRAN CHETRY, CNN ANCHOR: Hi. Good morning, T.J., and good morning to everyone out there.
We're live outside of the hospital, University Hospital, in Tucson, Arizona, this morning and just behind me, Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords is fighting for her life after a gunman opened fire on Saturday, shooting her in the head, killing six other people, including a 9-year-old girl.
You're looking at a picture right now of the makeshift memorial that people have come by to put pictures and candles, flowers and American flags outside of the hospital this morning. And it's -- I talked to some police who have been here who said they've just seen it grow over the past couple of days, that memorial.
This morning, doctors are going to be updating us on her condition. She is still listed as critical. But doctors say that she is responding when they bring her out of her medically induced sedation. They are due to give a press conference, update from the public affairs office here at the hospital at 10:00 local time, 12:00 noon Eastern Time.
Meantime, Gabrielle Giffords' campaign chairman tells CNN he is confident that the congresswoman will survive. Also, Giffords' husband, Mark Kelly, release a statement saying, quote, "Many of you have offered help. There is little we can do but pray for those who are struggling. If you are inspired to make a positive gesture, consider two organizations that Gabby has long valued and supported: Tucson's Community Food Bank and the American Red Cross."
Again, a statement from her husband who is said to be keeping a bedside vigil at her hospital bed, at her side throughout this.
Meantime, the suspect, 22-year-old Jared Loughner, now charged with murder. He is due in court today at 4:00 p.m. Eastern Time.
And we start our coverage this morning with Susan Candiotti. She's been covering this from the very beginning. And she got an inside look at the mind of the accused killer and also the chilling 911 calls in the wake of the shooting.
Good morning, Susan.
SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi.
One of many questions here, Kiran, is what allegedly pushed this troubled college student over the edge? Was he acting on his own? Well, the FBI has been talking to a lot of different people about this, even extremist groups. But so far, they say the indication is he was operating on his own.
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911 DISPATCHER: Hello? Hello?
UNIDENTIFIED CALLER: Hello, 911, there was a shooting at the Safeway.
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CANDIOTTI (voice-over): The calls to 911 paint a picture of the chaos that unfolded as a crazed gunman opened fire outside the Safeway grocery store.
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UNIDENTIFIED CALLER: It looked like the guy had a semi- automatic pistol and he went in. He just started firing. And then he ran. There were multiple people shot.
911 DISPATCHER: OK. Oh, my God.
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CANDIOTTI: The man who allegedly pulled the trigger, 22-year- old Jared Lee Loughner, has so far been charged with just the crimes related to victims who were federal employees, including two counts of murder for killing a federal judge and a congressional aide, to attempted murder charges for killing two other aides, and the attempted murder of Congresswoman Giffords. Loughner apparently isn't talking in custody and the FBI isn't commenting on his motive.
ROBERT MUELLER, FBI DIRECTOR: I will say and emphasize there is no information at this time to suggest any specific threat remains.
CANDIOTTI: Investigators did reveal what could be a key piece of evidence, discovered in a safe in Loughner's home, a letter from Congresswoman Giffords thanking him for attending a similar neighborhood event back in 2007. Investigators say they also found a separate envelope with what appears to be Loughner's signature and the following words: "I planned ahead," "My assassination," "Giffords."
Loughner's past also includes a troubled time at Pima Community College where he was suspended, and then quit last October after what the school said were multiple run-ins with campus police.
BEN MCGAHEE, JARED LEE LOUGHNER'S INSTRUCTOR: He was physically removed after probably the third or fourth week.
CANDIOTTI: To return to campus, Loughner was told he would have to present a doctor's note stating he would not be, quote, "a danger to himself or others."
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CANDIOTTI: And given that 2007 letter that Congresswoman Giffords sent to Loughner, it appears as though perhaps his anger had been simmering for a very long time.
CHETRY: Well, you know, we heard from Pima County sheriff, he said that he believes that she was targeted -- that she was the precise target of this suspect.
CANDIOTTI: That's right.
CHETRY: What's going to happen in court today? I mean, it's not going to -- he's still not cooperating with police, correct?
CANDIOTTI: That's as far as we know, he is not cooperating with police.
This is really you know, a run-of-the-mill appearance. You have to -- once you are charged, make a first appearance with the first 24 hours. So, that's why he will be in court.
It's not even clear at this time whether the defense attorney who will be appointed to represent him, more likely than not, will even be in court at this time. She is someone who has a lot of experience in high profile cases, including the Unabomber, Zacarias Moussaoui. So, she's seen cases like this. She may have a huge team of representatives by the time this is over. It's a big case.
CHETRY: Of course. And these are the federal charges could be state charges as well --
CANDIOTTI: That's right.
CHETRY: -- with the other shootings.
CANDIOTTI: That's right.
CHETRY: Thanks so much, Susan. Appreciate it.
Well, we're learning a few other facts about the accused shooter and his troubled past. Military officials tell our Barbara Starr that Jared Loughner was rejected by the Army over a failed drug test. Also, a law enforcement source tells us that he bought ammunition at a Wal-Mart a few weeks ago and that he had to try two different stores after he was turned down at the first because of his, quote, "behavior."
Also, while there is still no clear motive, Pima County Sheriff Clarence Dupnik suggests that the political climate in this country may have put some of our officials in grave danger. He also called Arizona the capital of prejudice and bigotry and explained those comments to us right here earlier on AMERICAN MORNING.
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CHETRY: Do you still feel that way today?
SHERIFF CLARENCE DUPNIK, PIMA COUNTY, ARIZONA: I think I am only expressing what a whole lot of people in this people feel, that the anger that is generated against government and public officials and elected officials is partly responsible for these kinds of incidents. Because people who have troubled personalities are very susceptible to this kind of anger in our country. It's a sad thing.
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CHETRY: The sheriff also said that it's clear that Congresswoman Giffords was the shooter's primary target, T.J. And again, as we heard Susan elude to that letter, the 2007 letter when apparently the congresswoman and the suspect had made contact, that he was perhaps unhappy with the response that he got. And, of course, they are continuing to piece together and backtrack the back story on how much he may have had contact with Giffords' office before this Saturday shooting.
HOLMES: Yes, still piecing all of this together. We should learn more maybe as well this afternoon. Of course, he is expected to be in court, his first court appearance a little later this afternoon.
So Kiran, thank you.
We'll check in with Kiran here plenty throughout the morning for our special coverage.
Also we have been talking so much about the congresswoman, Congresswoman Giffords, of course. And rightly so. She is fighting for her life right now.
But we also want to remember the six people who were killed there on Saturday. And here they are: John Roll, the federal judge, also, Dorothy Morris, Dorwin Stoddard, Phyllis Scheck, and Gabe Zimmerman.
Also among the dead, 9-year-old Christina Green. She was interested in government. She was there at this weekend's gathering because she was excited to meet her congresswoman.
Our Casey Wian spoke to her parents.
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JOHN GREEN, FATHER: It does say something about our society that my daughter was born on a tragic day and she went out on a tragic day.
ROXANNA GREEN, MOTHER: She was a great friend, a great sister, a great daughter. I was so proud of her. And I just want everyone to know, and I think a lot of people that knew Christina Taylor, that, you know, we got robbed. She got robbed of a beautiful life that she could have had.
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HOLMES: Christina was one of the few girls who played for her community's little league team. Her father also a scout for the Los Angeles Dodgers. Her grandfather, Dallas Green, won a World Series managing the Philadelphia Phillies.
And also, you third father there speak on her being born on such a tragic day and dying on a tragic day. She was born on September 11th, 2001.
Meanwhile, President Obama has call forward a national moment of silence at 11:00 a.m. Eastern Time. Flags also flying at half- staff at the White House, also at government buildings across the country today and, yes, indeed, the Capitol as well where Congresswoman Giffords worked.
Her colleagues call her a fighter. She is still fighting for her life. So far, she's been beating the odds after taking a bullet to the head at close range.
Most of us were asking the question: how is this possible? Also, what is the prognosis? The medical experts will be breaking this down for us coming up.
Also two witnesses in the shooting in Tucson -- they could have easily become victims. They ended up actually helping to stop the shooter. They'll join us live this morning as well.
But one other big story we're watching, that we need to let you know about, a dangerous snow and ice storm in the South, pretty much shut down some parts of the South this morning. Thousands of flights have been canceled. Roads are dangerous right now.
Our Rob Marciano, as well as Bonnie Schneider are live -- excuse me -- live for us with the latest conditions. That's coming up.
It's 10 minutes past the hour.
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CHETRY: Welcome back to a special edition of AMERICAN MORNING. Twelve minutes past the hour. I'm Kiran Chetry here in Tucson, Arizona.
Amid the gun fire here on Saturday, heroes certainly emerged, brave men and women who put their lives on the line to save others. And they include Daniel Hernandez. We just spoke to him live a few moments ago.
He's a new intern to Congresswoman Giffords' office, just 20 years old, who ran toward the gunfire to save the congresswoman's life. And he's pictured there with her on the congresswoman's hand as she's being taken to the hospital.
Earlier, I spoke with Daniel about what happened in the moments after the attack.
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CHETRY: See when you got -- when you got to the congresswoman.
DANIEL HERNANDEZ, INTERN FOR REP. GIFFORDS: When I got to the area where the congresswoman was expected to be, I saw a few people on the ground. So, I first tried to make sure that those people who still had pulses and still had visible breaths were treated.
I only got to see two or three people before I actually noticed that the congresswoman had been hit. And she had been hit pretty severely. She had an injury to her head. She then became my first and only priority.
CHETRY: And did you, at any point, worry this guy could still be out here? Whoever is doing the shooting could hit me?
HERNANDEZ: I don't know if the gun shots were still going on when I was running towards the congresswoman. My only concern was trying to help those that needed the help.
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CHETRY: So, quick and brave action by Hernandez may have actually helped the congresswoman somehow survive. A lot of us can't picture how you survive a bullet to the brain at close range. She is still in critical condition. She's in a medically induced coma right now. And the hospital is expected to brief us on her condition again at 10:00 a.m. local time, noon on the East Coast.
But, right now, I'm joined by Dr. Michael Lemole. He is the chief of neurosurgery here at the University Medical Center. And also, our own neurosurgeon and chief medical correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta, who's going to be joining this conversation as well.
Pardon me, Doctor. Thanks so much for being with us this morning. Can you give us an update on the congresswoman's condition today?
DR. MICHAEL LEMOLE, CHIEF OF NEUROSURGERY, UNIVERSITY OF ARIZONA: So, I was able to assess Congresswoman Giffords within the last few hours. And I'm happy she's holding her own. No change is good in this instance, because she was already functioning at a fairly high level and she's still doing that.
CHETRY: What is the importance of her being in this medically induced coma right now?
LEMOLE: That just gives her a break between examinations, that allows her to not experience the discomfort of all of the lines and the breathing tubes that she has in position.
CHETRY: You talked about the importance of watching this swelling, that's going to be key to knowing about the long term recovery, right?
LEMOLE: Correct.
CHETRY: How many days out until you know that she's in the clear?
LEMOLE: Most people peak their swelling from this kind of injury around three days after the event. It can go on longer than that. And that's why we say we're cautiously optimistic but she is still critical.
CHETRY: And when you say responding to commands, how do you guys determine whether or not there has been actual damage to the brain?
LEMOLE: What we do is we'll ask her to carry on a series of simple commands, show me a thumb, show me two fingers, wiggle your toes. And if she's able to do that, it implies several that centers in the brain are working. Everything from literally hearing the sound to processing it to deciphering it to then carrying out the command and passing that information on to the parts of the brain that control the body. Not only do those each of those centers have to work, but they have to communicate with one another.
CHETRY: Because when I read the early reports about this, and some of the quotes from the doctors who operated, they said had to remove devitalized parts of the brain, but thank goodness, there were very few. Does that mean that you had to actually take out some brain matter?
LEMOLE: Well, where the bullet enters and where the bullet exits, we usually have brain that is no longer alive. We want to remove that so we don't have an excessive infection risk. We want to minimize anything deeper because there could still be, if you will, working connections in the brain. And those might come back on line.
CHETRY: I want to bring in Sanjay right now. And Sanjay, of course, this is your area of expertise for a lot of people. It's just unimaginable that somebody could be shot point blank, you know, and have the bullet pass through the brain and still be in this condition. The optimistic situation we're in today which is that she may very well recover.
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, it really is. It's remarkable. And I think, really, it speaks to a lot of people's efforts on the ground including Dr. Lemole, obviously, performing that operation quickly and effectively. One thing I wanted to ask as well was, I don't know if you can get a sense, doctor, at this point, but she's following commands.
Does she seem to be following command equally on both sides of her body? That is to say, does she seem weaker on the right side of her body because of this injury?
LEMOLE: You know, I don't want to go into the specifics of her exact examination. The family has asked me to be very discreet with that. And for that reason, I can't go into that.
CHETRY: I got you. In terms of where you go from here, what in the coming days and weeks are going to be the vital milestones that you need to see happen?
LEMOLE: I think the next big milestone is when Dr. Reid decides that she's safe enough to pull out the breathing tube. That she's awake enough to manage her own airway. That will be a huge step forward.
CHETRY: And Sanjay, it's also interesting, I mean, another high profile brain injury. Of course, if you remember, James Brady, who, I think you said had even perhaps graver injury, and he has managed to recover so incredibly.
GUPTA: Yes. You know, it's true, and quite remarkable, sometimes, the type of recovery after these types of injuries, you know? The odds, you know, at the time of injury are not on the patient's side in terms of just simply surviving this let alone function. But I think that, you know, based on everything that we're hearing, obviously, this sounds like not only will she survive, but the function probably is difficult to predict but at least optimistic given how well she's doing this soon after the operation.
CHETRY: It is amazing. You guys truly are miracle workers. Dr. Lemole, I know you have to go into surgery again, and you, guys, have a busy day ahead with the briefing as well. Thank you so much for your time this morning.
LEMOLE: Thank you for having me.
CHETRY: And Sanjay has been blogging about Congresswoman Giffords' condition. How doctors are treating her and how she's managed to survive such a serious injury. You can check that out at CNNHealth.com. Sanjay, thanks so much.
And also up next, crowd members who took the alleged gunman down. They tackled the suspect. They were able to get away from him an ammunition clip that he was trying to reload into his gun. They actually kneeled on him until more help arrived. We're going to be talking to some of the heroes of this tragedy live, next.
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CHETRY: Welcome back to the Most News in the Morning. Special edition of AMERICAN MORNING right now when we're live in Tucson, Arizona. We're spending a lot of heartbreak and despair after Saturday's tragic shooting, but there are also stories of heroism. People who risked their lives to make sure that the suspected gun man could not do any more damage.
And my next guests could have easily been victims. Instead, their actions may have helped stop the gunman before he can reload and do even more damage. Joining me now is Dr. Steven Rail and Patricia Maisch. Thanks to both of you for being with us.
Patricia, let me ask you first about what the scene was like for you. The gun shots rang out. You, like many others, dropped to the ground. Did you even know who was shooting at that point?
PATRICIA MAISCH, GRABBED MAGAZINE CARTRIDGE FROM SHOOTER: I did not. I was about 20 feet away from Gabrielle when I heard the first shot, and I knew immediately it was gunfire, and I decided to drop instead of running and becoming a possible target. And, then, I could see him out of the corner of my eye just spraying the people as he walked by and was waiting because he shot the woman right next to me, was waiting to see what it felt like to be shot.
CHETRY: So, you thought at that point I'm dead.
MAISCH: I did. Or at least injured. And, but instead, two gentlemen had struggled with him and got him to the ground, and then they started yelling get the gun, get the magazine, and I was able to -- he was laying right next to me, so I was able to just kneel up and was able to take the magazine away from him. He had pulled it out of his pocket, and it was on the ground. He dropped it, and I was able to get it before he did.
CHETRY: My God. I mean, it's just unbelievable to hear. How were you able to think clearly at that point and know what to do?
MAISCH: I think you just react. I think you just do it.
CHETRY: And Steven, you also were one of the people that helped subdue him. What was that like knowing that, you know, this was clearly a dangerous person? This is somebody who had injured and killed people, and there you are trying to hold him down.
DR. STEVEN RAYLE, HELPED SUBDUE GUNMAN: Well, I just didn't want him to get away. I saw there were a couple people that are on him, and I joined in holding him down at that point. And he was struggling somewhat, but he was very sort of impassive, not really emotionally reacting to anything.
CHETRY: But he was still making moves to get his gun reloaded?
RAYLE: Not when I was there, no.
CHETRY: But at that point, the gun was away from him?
RAYLE: The gun was away from him. CHETRY: I mean, what was it like, was there panic? I mean, was he saying anything? Was he saying anything to the people that were holding him down including you?
RAYLE: He did not say anything other than, he said, aw, you're hurting my arm to somebody who was holding his arm. That was the only thing. Otherwise, he was just almost sort of cold and not participating at all. He was just sort of staring into the distance, you know, while he was on the ground.
CHETRY: And how long was all of this until law enforcement and the ambulances were able to get to the scene?
MAISCH: Well, after I knelt on his knees, I noticed that one of the first people that had gotten down was bleeding. He had a gunshot wound to the head, so I asked another gentleman to kneel on his legs. I went in and got some towels from safe way and made a compress for a bit (ph) and held it on his head until the police came. So, it seemed like about five minutes. Everything was very fast, but I believe the police were there within about five minutes.
CHETRY: How are you guys doing after all of this? I mean, two days out, knowing that six people were killed, that others are still, you know, fighting for their lives in the hospital?
RAYLE: It's a really horrible thing, and the horror of it is really just hitting me, I think more today as time goes on. The first day, there is the adrenalin and the confusion, and now, real life is sort of setting in for me and really hitting me hard.
CHETRY: What about you, Pat?
MAISCH: Well, I'm so thankful to be alive, and so sorry for the other people that that's my main concentration is getting back to living life and feeling sorry for Gabby and her family and her husband and other people. I feel very fortunate, so I think I'm doing OK.
CHETRY: How does the community on the larger aspect, you know, heal from this? We were at a vigil last night, and people are, you know, gathered outside of the congresswoman's office. People are crying. People are saying, you know, this isn't us. This is not what we want to be remembered for, you know. We're a loving community, not a violent one.
RAYLE: Right.
MAISCH: I was very shocked that it happened in Tucson.
RAYLE: It was a very peaceful event. It was very quiet. And that's why it was such a shock when he began shooting.
CHETRY: Well, we wish you guys the best of luck. And, you know, I know there's a lot of people who owe you a (ph) gratitude for your actions on Saturday in the midst of this unspeakable tragedy. Thanks so much for joining us this morning, Steven, Pat, we appreciate it.
RAYLE: Thank you.
MAISCH: Thank you.
CHETRY: T.J.
T.J. HOLMES, CNN ANCHOR: Kiran, thank you. We'll continue to check in with you this morning.
And as you know, among those killed on Saturday shooting, a federal judge, John Roll, among the six killed there. Coming up, we're going to talk to one man, Matt Bowman, who says he owes so much of what he knows in the legal profession to Judge Roll. Stick around for that.
Also, another major story we're covering today is the weather. Snow, sleet, ice, you name it, it's causing fits for folks down south this morning. Thousands of flights have been canceled. We're checking in with two of our meteorologists, Rob Marciano and Bonnie Schneider. It's 26 minutes past the hour.
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HOLMES: Good morning again, everybody. Thank you for being with us here on this AMERICAN MORNING. I'm T.J. Holmes. We'll be checking in with our Kiran Chetry who is live out handling our coverage of the tragedy in Tucson, Arizona. I do want to give you an update, though, on what's happening with Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords.
She is fighting for her life this morning. She's still in critical condition. Doctors still encouraged in part because she's been able to communicate and follow some simple commands. We did just get an update from her doctor live here a moment ago who said in his words, she is, quote, "holding her own," and also said, "there is really no change overnight in her condition, and at this point, no change is a good thing." That's the update there.
Meanwhile, the gunman, of course, he opened fire on Saturday, shooting her in the head, killing six other people, including a 9- year-old girl and a federal judge. Giffords' campaign chairman telling CNN he is confident that the congresswoman will survive.
Tell you more about the suspect now, at least, what we know. Jared Loughner is his name. He's 22 years old, now charged with attempted assassination and murder. He is due in court today around 4:00 Eastern Time. FBI says he revealed his plans on an envelope that said, quote, "I planned ahead," end quote. He also had the words, quote, "my assassination." Also, the congresswoman's name was on that envelope. T.J. HOLMES, CNN ANCHOR: Tell you more about the suspect now, at least what we know. Jared Loughner is his name. He's 22 years old, now charged with attempted assassination and murder. He is due in court today, around 4:00 Eastern Time.
FBI says he revealed his plans on an envelope that said, quote, "I planned ahead," end quote, also had the words quote, "My assassination." Also the congresswoman's name was on the envelope.
Besides this, there's one big story we're keeping an eye for you that's affecting a lot of people today. It's a deep freeze in the Deep South. Streets, runways covered in sheets of ice and snow. This is across the Southeast this morning.
Cars, as you can imagine, been trying, but they have been sliding al over the place. Thank goodness not a whole lot of cars are out there on the roads. Not a lot of people braving it.
Meanwhile, some of the folks trying to get into or out of Atlanta, you got a problem because some 2,000 flights have already been canceled. Rob Marciano is outside Atlanta's Centennial Olympic Park for us.
Hello to you once again, Rob.
ROB MARCIANO, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Good morning, T.J.
You know, you have flights that aren't taking off and you got people that aren't used to the snow or driving in the snow, and you've got a city that is ill-prepared for something like this. We're talking about 16 sand trucks in Atlanta total, less in the way of flows. So, the roads just haven't been taken care of.
And now, the sleet and actually starting to get more in the way of freezing rain is coming down. So, the snow that came in last night is starting -- is starting to get a little bit crusty and more importantly, the sidewalks and the roads just in the last hour look at this road, how glazed over it's gotten with just a few cars passing over. So, we've got some issues here as far as getting around, not only Atlanta but across the South.
Check out some of the maps as far as where the snow is going now. It is moving off to the east. It is growing in expanse and intensity and now getting into parts of Greenville and Charlotte, and the rain or freezing rain snow line is pretty much the I-20 corridor there. But this is a devastating snow and ice event for Alabama, Mississippi, Little Rock and just -- and north of Dallas as well.
Temperatures slow, slow to warm up. And it won't be until this afternoon until we even get close to freezing. But I think we'll stay subfreezing tonight, that means it's not going to melt and we'll get a glazing, like we're seeing right now, and this is the computer forecast, of glazing of additional ice accumulation in these spots anywhere from 0.1 to 0.3 inch of rain as we through the next 12 to 48 hours.
And then, this combines with the snow that's falling across the Plains, to make for a nor'easter. From the Delmarva up through Boston, potentially a foot of snow in some of those spots tomorrow night into Wednesday.
T.J., 3,000 people so far without power here in Georgia. I expect that number to climb as the ice continues to build. Back to you.
HOLMES: All right. Rob, we appreciate that update.
I want to turn from Rob outside to Bonnie Schneider in our extreme weather center, keeping an eye on the airports. A lot of flights canceled already, Bonnie.
BONNIE SCHNEIDER, AMS METEOROLOGIST: That's right, T.J. We are anticipating more to be canceled as we go through the day.
Surprisingly, our current airport delay map says no delays. But don't let that fool with you. With all of the cancellations, that's why we're not getting reports of delay ,although we have seen some in Charlotte where the storm will really get cranking today and even into tomorrow.
Here's a look at expected -- to let you know what's ahead. New York City, Boston -- you know, today isn't going to be as bad due to the wind. I'm expecting the nor'easter to really get cranking on Wednesday. But naturally, delays and cancellations for the Southeast.
Atlanta, Charlotte, low clouds, freezing rain. Memphis, where we saw almost a five or six inches of snow; Dallas, low clouds, freezing drizzle. Also, low clouds in Houston, delays expected in Denver due to snow.
So, we're tracking that as well. And we're also monitoring, of course, the weather and we're going to have more on that throughout the hour -- T.J.
HOLMES: All right. Bonnie Schneider, we appreciate the update. Rob as well. Thank you so much.
At 33 fast hour, I want to head back out to Tucson and our Kiran handling our coverage, of course, the other big story today, that shooting rampage in Tucson.
Hello again, Kiran.
CHETRY: Hi there. And, you know, we've been talking to so many who knew the congresswoman and they're not just a team but really a family, that's how Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords' team describes themselves. And that family was torn apart Saturday when the gunman killed one member of the staff, hurt two others, and gravely wounded the congresswoman.
Coming up: we're going to be speaking with C.J. Karamargin, the spokesman for Congresswoman Giffords, ahead.
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CHETRY: Welcome back to a special edition of AMERICAN MORNING. We're live in Tucson, Arizona, this morning, following a tragic events that shocked Tucson and, of course, the nation this Saturday.
Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords is still fighting for her life after a gunman opened fire at a constituent meeting that she was holding outside of a Safeway here in Tucson. She, as we know, was shot in the head. She's still in critical condition this morning.
And along with Congresswoman Giffords, some of her staff members were also shot, one of them killed.
Joining us now is C.J. Karamargin. He's Congresswoman Giffords' communications director.
Thanks for being with us.
C.J. KARAMARGIN, REP. GIFFORDS' COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: Thank you. Good morning.
CHETRY: First of all, I know a lot of you are remembering Gabe Zimmerman, 30 years old, beloved staffer who was killed in this shooting.
KARAMARGIN: Right.
CHETRY: How is his family doing?
KARAMARGIN: Understandably taking it very hard. It's a very difficult time.
CHETRY: What about for the other staff? As I know you have two others recovering right now, in addition to Congresswoman Giffords.
KARAMARGIN: Right. Ron Barber, our district director, our leader in the district, and Pam Simon, constituent representative for the congresswoman. Both are doing well. The prognosis is very good. Pam told a colleague yesterday that I owe her some dark chocolate.
CHETRY: So, if she's doing well enough to joke around, that's a good sign for you guys, I'm sure.
KARAMARGIN: Yes. It is and she will be getting the dark chocolate, as much of it as she wants.
CHETRY: Also, in terms of the congresswoman, you also talked about hearing some good signs. She was asked to respond to some commands.
KARAMARGIN: Right. She held up two fingers, and there was a discussion among the staff of whether or not she was giving us the peace sign or the victory sign. And we decided it was both.
CHETRY: Well, you guys have certainly showed remarkable courage and tenacity in the face of this horrible tragedy that happened. You know, what is -- what is taking place right now in terms of your office and in terms of, you know, the future for the congresswoman?
KARAMARGIN: We're still trying to figure that out. But the -- we are hopeful. We are praying for the best outcome.
But our strength comes from Gabrielle Giffords. The tenacity that we're showing, the determination that we're showing, we get from her. We derive from her.
The same way she derives strength from this community. You can see the outpouring behind us. That -- things like this say a lot about Tucson and they say a lot about Gabrielle Giffords.
CHETRY: You know, we remarked a lot how Arizona over the past year certainly made headlines --
KARAMARGIN: Right.
CHETRY: -- for being at the center of a lot of very, very fiery debates, over certain issues -- from immigration to gun rights and on and on. And, of course, the health care debate where you guys were targeted, your office vandalized in the wake of that vote.
How is all of this sort of -- how is all of this coming together for you as you try to figure out what you do next?
KARAMARGIN: You know, on one level, it's a very surreal experience. We are involved in government service because of public service, and the desire to do good, make our country a better place. That is Congresswoman Giffords' number one desire. That's what motivates her.
And I think as we go forward, those are the guiding lights that we will use, hopefully to light the way for us.
CHETRY: Do you think that public discourse is going to change? You think the way people communicate -- the way they disagree on issues will change?
KARAMARGIN: You know, I don't know. I don't know. But I know Congresswoman Giffords has said that there are consequences to our rhetoric and we have to be mindful that there are consequences to our rhetoric. We can have a discussion without making it personal. We can disagree without being disagreeable.
Both President Obama and Speaker Boehner and, of course, many other leaders have put it well, that there's no place for acts of violence or intimidation like this in our free society. Our society depends on free exchange of information.
Congresswoman Giffords has always said that being a representative is not just a job but a job description. And that means she needs the flow of information from her constituents and that's what she was doing on Saturday morning.
CHETRY: Well, hopefully she will make a recovery and she'll be back (INAUDIBLE) Congress soon.
KARAMARGIN: We're hoping for the best.
CHETRY: Thank you so much for joining us this morning.
KARAMARGIN: Sure.
CHETRY: C.J. Karamargin, we appreciate it.
KARAMARGIN: Thank you. Appreciate it.
CHETRY: T.J.?
HOLMES: All right. Kiran, we appreciate you.
We'll check back in with Kiran out there in Tucson in just a moment.
As you know, six people were killed in that rampage -- among them, a federal judge, John Roll. You see his picture there. Everyone is talking about his deep roots and his commitment to the Arizona community. That's what they lost.
Coming up, we're going to be talking to a man who lost a friend and mentor.
Forty-one minutes past the hour. Stay here.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HOLMES: Forty-three past the hour now.
U.S. District Judge John Roll, he was killed during Saturday's rampage in Tucson, Arizona -- being remembered for a calm demeanor, deep knowledge of the law, also no stranger to violence and threats. He received death threats for work on controversial cases, and recently as 2009 was under 24-hour protection.
Matt Bowman was a law clerk for Judge Roll back in 2005. He's an attorney in Washington. He joins us now.
Sir, thank you for being here. First, sorry for your loss. We hear so much about how much he meant to the community.
Tell me what this man meant to you.
MATTHEW BOWMAN, FORMER CLERK FOR JUDGE JOHN ROLL: Well, thanks for having me and let me express my condolences to the judge's family, his courtroom family and ask your viewers for prayers for them and for the families of all the victims.
The judge was truly a mentor and example for all of us. You know, we law clerks, we would join his chambers right out of law school and be behind the scenes for two years. And he really went out of his way to set an example of professional quality and ethical integrity that taught us really what it means to be a great lawyer as he was.
HOLMES: Give us an idea for most of us who don't follow the judiciary -- don't follow the path and careers of a lot of federal judges. How was he viewed by his peers?
BOWMAN: Everyone he encountered and I think if you look at the people who are coming out and -- and talking about him, everyone loved and respected him. In his chambers he dealt with a lot of people on a daily basis, both jurors to lawyers to other judges and judges in the appellate courts, he treated everyone with the highest level of courtesy and respect and really dignity that he felt they deserved because they were human beings and -- and that showed through the people who encountered him, everyone loved and respected him and he will -- he will be sorely missed.
HOLMES: Now, I know you didn't necessarily talk to him on a daily or even weekly basis, I guess, since you clerked for him or got finished clerking for him back in 2005, but do you remember the last time you did talk to him? Do you remember what that conversation or what that interaction was about?
BOWMAN: Well, we would be in touch every once in a while if someone was applying to work for him who I knew, I think maybe he called me this summer to discuss someone. But he also was -- was greatly dedicated to his family and the family have -- of his staff and he actually shared the same birth date, not the same year, of my wife. And he always remembered that date.
And we would exchange notes throughout the year if I was involved in a -- an important case or -- or if he was, and it's -- it's really hard to -- to think of him not being there anymore.
HOLMES: Matthew, did he ever express to you any concern about his personal safety?
BOWMAN: You know, when I was there, there wasn't any particularly controversial or -- or dangerous case but he you know, he lived his life not really worrying about that. If a precaution needed to be taken he took it. But -- but he really lived his life focused on the people that came into his life.
His dedication to God, to his family, to his staff and to really everyone he encountered. And -- and that was his focus and he did it with each and every person he encountered and he -- and he put everything into -- into giving his attention and his care to them and his intellectual talents to the cases in front of him.
HOLMES: And last thing here for you, certainly you knew him in a way that most people didn't at all. A lot of people right now are just learning, even learning the name of Judge Roll and certainly learning a little about him now.
But you leave me with this thought now, what more so do you think you would like people to know who -- who maybe didn't know him about his brilliant legal career, that's so celebrated it sounds like but you also mention his family and his faith.
BOWMAN: I think what -- what really I draw from Judge Roll's life is that he not only balanced his career and his family but he -- he -- he put his excellent attention into every component of his life, his devotion to God, his family, his humor, his decency to his staff, to everyone he encountered and his passionate beliefs but also the -- the courtesy and respect he showed to everyone no matter what side of the courtroom they were on.
HOLMES: All right, Matthew Bowman, again, a former clerk for Judge Roll. We appreciate you taking the time out and letting us learn a little bit more about Judge Roll. I'm sorry for your loss. But thank you for taking the time with us this morning.
BOWMAN: You're welcome.
HOLMES: All right, 48 past the hour.
Coming up here we don't exactly know a motive yet in this case on this suspect, this shooting suspect. But some are saying the -- the rhetoric in our politics has become a little too toxic and a little too dangerous.
We're going to be taking a closer look at that this morning; how our political debates just gotten a little too nasty and a little dangerous. That's next. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHETRY: Fifty-one minutes past the hour right now. A live look at Capitol Hill, the U.S. Capitol in Washington right now and you see the flag flying at half-staff.
President Obama ordered the flag to fly as a mark of respect for the victims in Tucson, Arizona. I -- I just had a chance to speak to Congresswoman Giffords communication director. And he said, when he heard John Boehner, the Speaker of the House say that the flag was flying at half-staff in remembrance of Gabe Zimmerman one of her staffers who was killed. He said he teared-up knowing that the rest of the nation also mourns their loss here in Tucson.
But meantime, Republicans and Democrats alike say that they are shocked and that they are saddened by this shooting rampage that happened here in Tucson and as one Congressman put it we're in a dark place in this country right now.
Many politicians say they will continue to meet with their constituents but they're also urging colleagues to dial back the discourse to refrain from some of the negative campaigning and over the top language.
Our Jim Acosta is live in Washington this morning with more on what many believe really is a tragic wake-up call -- Jim.
JIM ACOSTA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes.
Kiran, this is a tough one. Authorities have yet to say what drove the Tucson suspect to go on a rampage but almost as soon as the shooting ended a national soul-searching began from the sheriff in Arizona on the case to members of Congress. Concerns are being raised about the nation's sometimes toxic political discourse and whether it has become too dangerous.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
REP. JOHN BOEHNER (R-OH), HOUSE SPEAKER: We, the people of the United States --
ACOSTA (voice-over): When members of the House took turns reading portions of the Constitution last week, Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords got the First Amendment.
REP. GABRIELLE GIFFORDS (D), ARIZONA: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof or abridging the freedom of speech --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But wait a minute. Now, wait a minute.
ACOSTA: But in recent years those free speech protections have allowed Americans on the right --
REP. JOE WILSON (R), SOUTH CAROLINA: You lie!
ACOSTA: -- and the left to say just about anything they want.
REP. ALAN GRAYSON (D), FLORIDA: The Republicans health care plan for America. Don't get sick.
ACOSTA: The political rhetoric got so heated during the health care debate protesters brought guns to town hall meetings. Some in Congress including Giffords found offices in their districts vandalized.
Last March Giffords objected to having her district placed in the crosshairs by Sarah Palin's political action committee in this map pointing out certain health care supporters.
REP. GABRIELLE GIFFORDS (D), ARIZONA: A lot of people do that, they've got to realize there's consequences to that actions.
ACOSTA: Congressman Jim Moran says Giffords told them just over a week ago she was still troubled by that map.
REP. JIM MORAN (D), VIRGINIA: And she was not going to be intimidated. She never indicated to me that she was scared, that she -- if -- but she was troubled by the environment that exists in many parts of the country, particularly in -- in her district.
ACOSTA: Over the weekend a Sarah PAC representative told an online radio host it's all a misunderstanding. REBECCA MONSOUR, SARAH PALIN AIDE: We never ever, ever intended it to be gun fights. It was simply cross hairs like you'd see on maps.
ACOSTA: But just after the election, Palin tweeted about the map referring to the bull's eye icon used to target the 20 Obamacare loving incumbent seats. Trying to make sense of the rampage, Pima County sheriff put some of the blame on the public discourse.
SHERIFF CLARENCE DUPNIK, PIMA COUNTY, ARIZONA: To try to inflame the public on a daily basis, 24 hours a day, seven days a week, has impact on people especially who are unbalanced personalities to begin with.
ACOSTA: Was it a national mind-set?
REP. EMANUEL CLEAVER (D), MISSOURI: We are in a dark place in this country right now. And the atmospheric condition is toxic.
ACOSTA: Or the mind of a mad man?
SEN. JON KYL (R), ARIZONA: We really don't know what motivated this young person except to know that he was very mentally unstable.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ACOSTA: And we still don't have all of the answers. Investigators haven't said whether any political rhetoric motivated the gun man in Tucson. Still, a Pennsylvania Congressman plans to introduce a bill that would make it a federal crime to use violent imagery that incites violence against a member of Congress. That kind of law, Kiran, as you know could be subject to a court challenge on the grounds of free speech.
CHETRY: You know -- and as you said, I mean there's the motivation inside the mind of somebody who was mentally unstable to say the least, we're never going to know that. But it certainly is a topic of conversation here. A lot of people saying, you know, it was getting dangerous out there.
ACOSTA: Right.
CHETRY: And even here behind me at this make-shift memorial you see a peace sign, it says peace instead of, then the gun sight. It's certainly something that's going to be talked about for days and weeks to come.
ACOSTA: Absolutely. I think whether or not this had anything to do with what happened in Tucson, people in Washington have taken this as you said earlier, as a wake-up call to just cool it down. Tone it down -- Kiran.
CHETRY: All right. Jim Acosta for us this morning. Thanks so much.
We're going to take a quick break. It's four minutes until the top of the hour.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHETRY: Just a quick wrap up from here in Tucson, Arizona this morning. Behind me Congressman Gabrielle Giffords is in a hospital room here still in critical condition in the ICU, after the gunshot wound to the head although doctors are very optimistic right now saying that everything has been going well and that her recovery hopefully will continue on the right track.
As we know six other people were killed including a 9-year-old girl, Christina Green. The Congresswoman is still in a medically induced coma but doctors say that when she is brought out of that she does respond to their commands, which is a very good sign.
And they are going to be having a briefing here at the hospital at noon Eastern Time, 10:00 local with the latest on the congresswoman's condition and those of the other shooting victims.
Meantime, the suspect, 22-year-old Jared Loughner, now charged with murder and he is due to make a court appearance at 4:00 p.m. Eastern time. We also found out that he got a high-profile federal defense attorney who's going to be working with him and again, he is going to be making his first court appearance today.
That's going to wrap it up here in Tucson. Let me send it back to T.J. in New York. Hey, T.J.
HOLMES: All right. Kiran, thank you and thank you for your coverage this morning. The coverage here on CNN continues in the "NEWSROOM" right now with our Kyra Phillips. Hello, Kyra.
