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Nancy Grace
Missing Showgirl`s Body Found in Cement-Filled Tubs
Aired January 11, 2011 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight. The desperate search for a Las Vegas beauty, Debbie Flores -- so talented, the former law student and MBA grad gives it all up to pursue her dream of being a dancer. The NFL cheerleader hits the big time, scoring a major role in a Luxor fantasy show, but then disappears, her car found abandoned in a vacant lot.
Bombshell tonight. The search for Debbie comes to an end, the body of the Vegas beauty found dismembered, hidden in a plastic tub of cement.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "In case there is ever an emergency with me."
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You want to wake up from it and get that call from her.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "Contact Blu Griffith in Las Vegas."
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I prepared myself for anything.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "My ex-boyfriend, not my best friend."
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s a worst-case scenario.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Las Vegas showgirl Debbie Flores-Narvaez`s dismembered body was reportedly found in tubs filled with cement.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I can`t talk!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Debbie`s ex-boyfriend, Jason Griffith, is now behind bars for her murder.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Based on the tip that came in.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He was the last person to see her.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Based on the information that we had.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Her car was found abandoned, its license plate removed.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In fact, our suspect was our suspect.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I want to see him face to face!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He claims he had nothing to do with her disappearance.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I still want to sit down and talk to him.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And that he hoped she`d be found soon.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I want to know why.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And tonight, beautiful brown eyes, shoulder-length hair, gorgeous smile, the world in front of her, a 16-year-old beauty and straight-A honor student vanishes over Christmas break, Maryland. Tonight, where is missing girl Phylicia Barnes?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is unlike any missing person case that we`ve had.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Looking for this lady right here.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sixteen-year-old Phylicia Simone Barnes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She leaves the home of her half-sister.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She sent a text message to her sister.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police were told she`d left to get some food.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: To go get a bite to eat.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Several hours later, her cell phone went dead.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Called again. It went straight to voicemail.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) at all.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That was the last time anyone saw her.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We suspect some type of foul play.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The investigation has turned up clues she may have been abducted.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This girl seemed to vanish into thin air.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Despite an exhaustive search.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) continue to look.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There`s really no physical evidence that we have to help.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That`s the mystery.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There`s a picture of 16-year-old Phylicia Barnes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We`re hoping to see her.
GRACE: Take a look at Phylicia.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I just want my baby back.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Bring her back, please.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Bombshell tonight. The search for Debbie Flores comes to an end, the body of the Vegas beauty found dismembered, hidden in plastic tubs like the kind you get at a container store, tubs of cement.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Flores-Narvaez.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Former NFL cheerleader.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It became pretty evident the remains that we found were our victim`s.
GRACE: Bombshell. Bombshell. Bombshell tonight!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) You can`t tell me it wasn`t premeditated.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The arrest report shows Flores and Griffith got in an argument at his home.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There was another person involved in a third- party relationship.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He strangled her.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Arrested for beating Debbie back in October.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And then later had his roommate help dispose of her body.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She wasn`t nothing. (INAUDIBLE) filled (ph) her up.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Griffith severed both of Flores`s legs.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I can`t...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Put the body in tubs of concrete and left it in this abandoned home.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I want to do exactly what he did to her, with no remorse.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are taking your calls live. This is a girl that was a law student, already had her master`s in business, her MBA, all that education -- she gives it up to pursue her dream of being a professional dancer. And she made it. She actually made it, scoring a very big dancing role in the Luxor fantasy show. That`s big-time. That`s right off Broadway, is the Las Vegas shows, and she made it.
But then she doesn`t show up for rehearsal. She doesn`t show up for a show that she had tried so hard to get onto the review. Her body has just been found dismembered and hidden in multiple tubs of cement.
Straight out to Jean Casarez, legal correspondent, "In Session," joining us. Jean, what is the latest?
JEAN CASAREZ, "IN SESSION": You know, Nancy, I don`t know where to begin. I just don`t know where to begin. On December 12th, that is when Flores-Narvaez was last seen. Debbie was last seen on that day, and the last person to see her, who has now been charged with her murder, is her ex-boyfriend.
Well, what police are saying in their continuation report is that he strangled her to death, that asphyxiation was the cause of death. But after he did that, police are saying and prosecutors now are saying in the complaint, that he purchased a storage tub, you know, like you store your Christmas decorations in. And he got cement, and initially, taped her legs up to her chest to make sure she fit in the tub, and put cement all around her so nobody would ever know her body was in that tub. That was just the beginning.
GRACE: You know, to you, Jackie Valley, reporter with the LasVegasSun.com. Jackie, that is a pretty prestigious role she had, to get on at the Luxor fantasy show. That`s a big deal.
JACKIE VALLEY, LASVEGASSUN.COM (via telephone): Right. She was here for about two years.
GRACE: And what can you tell me? Can you tell me anything?
VALLEY: About the investigation?
GRACE: No, I`m talking about the review, how difficult it is to get the job, the dancing spot that she wanted. She gave up everything to travel to Vegas and get this spot. Isn`t that correct, Jean?
CASAREZ: Las Vegas is known for the showgirls. People work their whole lives to get that spot on the Las Vegas strip. She went to law school. She had a master`s degree. She was a Washington Redskins cheerleader. But she wanted to be a showgirl. And she was, and she made it to the strip in a top show at the Luxor.
GRACE: Back to Jackie Valley with the LasVegasSun.com. Let`s talk about what was done to her body and how her body was found. Can you tell me about that, Jackie?
VALLEY: Yes. It was pretty gruesome. Basically, Jason Griffith killed her by choking her. And when his roommate arrived back home, he showed his roommate the body, and the two of them then proceeded to put her body in one plastic tub, initially, filled it with concrete. Then they proceed to rent a U-Haul and drop it off at several locations.
And when that didn`t work, they ended up dropping it off in an abandoned apartment near downtown Las Vegas. But the tub was leaking, so Jason Griffith went out and bought some more supplies. And that`s when he came back, broke her out of the concrete, dismembered her body again, put it in separate tubs, and then refilled those with concrete.
GRACE: Jean Casarez, I want to go into it in a little more depth. What happened to Debbie Flores? The world in front of her, she had finally made it as a professional dancer, and then she starts missing rehearsals. She missed an actual show. What happened next, Jean Casarez?
CASAREZ: That`s right. Well, she missed a rehearsal, she missed a show the next day, and that`s when a call was made from someone out of state saying, Something`s wrong, she`s gone. And so police got involved. They found her car abandoned just several miles away from her ex- boyfriend`s home
And they went to talk with him. And he said that she had been there on Sunday night, he had seen her, but then he (ph) went a second time, police did, and there were inconsistencies in his story. But here`s the big one, Nancy. They took that tub that had the body of Debbie Flores- Narvaez over to his ex-girlfriend -- I`m talking about Jason Griffith`s ex- girlfriend -- and wanted to store that tub at her home. And she said, Look, what`s in it? I want to know what`s in it. They finally said Debbie`s, in there. And she said, I`m not having a thing to do with this.
GRACE: You know, and what I`m reading -- I`ve got it right here in the investigative report. They describe the boyfriend coming over to the ex-girlfriend`s house and asking could he store these things at her home. She asked Griffith what was going on, what was in the tub. She described him as hesitating but then saying, Hey, you really want to know? And she said, yes. If you`re going to store it here, you got to tell me what`s in there.
She described Griffith as hesitating again, but then telling her, Debbie`s in the tub. The girlfriend freaks out, tells him to get the "F" out of there. The two leave.
Now, Jean, how did he rope somebody else into helping him? It`s my understanding that the roommate comes home, and he`s standing at the door and he goes, Well, here`s a change your diaper moment. He brings the roommate in. And what happens?
CASAREZ: Well, what happens is the roommate sees Debbie Flores right there, dead in the room. And that`s when he started -- we`re talking the roommate -- started helping Jason Griffith. He has not been charged. But it looks like he helped him from the beginning because the first thing they did, they went and rented a U-Haul truck.
GRACE: Now, it`s my understanding that the first thing they did when trying to get rid of this body was tape her body, in other words, tape her knees up under her chin -- let`s see that diagram, Liz -- so that she would fit into these containers. They`re like the ones you get at Container Store. They`ve got them at the Wal-Mart. They tape her body so her knees are up under her chin. And then they decide to put her in different tubs, so they then dismember her.
Now, at what point -- let me go out to you, Kathryn Smerling. You`re a psychologist. You`re the one that`s got the doctorate degree. At what point does the roommate say, You know what? Don`t think I`m going to chop up a body. Why would the roommate go along with this?
KATHRYN SMERLING, PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, obviously, they are two of a kind. Certainly, they`re both either sadistic, they`re masochistic, they`re totally disassociated from any kind of reality, any kind of emotional closeness or emotional center. These people are not able to have real relationships. These people are absolutely grotesque. It`s like a bad horror movie. It`s shocking.
GRACE: Joining me now, a special guest out of Las Vegas. This is Debbie`s sister, Celeste Flores-Narvaez. Celeste, thank you for being with us.
CELESTE FLORES-NARVAEZ, SISTER: Thank you.
GRACE: Celeste...
FLORES-NARVAEZ: Thank you so much.
GRACE: ... when did you learn your sister was missing?
FLORES-NARVAEZ: On Wednesday the 15th, when my mother told me.
GRACE: What happened?
FLORES-NARVAEZ: My parents -- I was at work and my parents called me and basically told me they haven`t heard from her, if (ph) I have. And at first, I thought maybe she was, you know -- you know, maybe she was tired or sleeping or sick, and I proceeded to try to get ahold of her. Once I looked into her FaceBook and I saw that it was pretty serious, my parents were putting messages of, If anyone has seen her, I started to ask around and I guess kind of start my own little investigation, which led me into having a conversation with him that evening.
GRACE: And what did you learn when you were talking to him? How did he act?
FLORES-NARVAEZ: No emotion. I had two conversations with him. One was on the way home in the car. I basically asked him simple questions. He was cooperative, but I noticed that he wasn`t apologetic about it. He wasn`t -- you know, no condolences, I`m sorry to hear it. He didn`t have no emotional feeling towards her. He didn`t show any concern at all.
When I had the second conversation, there was a couple discrepancies with what he told me. Same thing -- no emotion, no condolences, no concern for her. I spoke to her roommate. And then I noticed that when she called him on Monday, the day after she was missing, to look for Debbie, that he had told her a completely different thing from me.
GRACE: Celeste, all of these inconsistent stories end when we find your sister`s body in this condition. When did you learn what he did to her?
FLORES-NARVAEZ: On Sunday. I got here on Saturday. I got a call from the police department on Saturday morning around 4:00 o`clock in the morning Atlanta time. And when I got here at 12:30, I found out he was being charged for murder. I found out about her body on Sunday, the way it was disposed of.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Deborah Flores-Narvaez.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Has been found dead. Dismembered body was reportedly found in tubs filled with cement.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I refuse to believe that you`re going to buy cement, place her like she wasn`t nothing in it, and filled her up.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Debbie`s ex-boyfriend, Jason Griffith, is now behind bars for her murder.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The ex-boyfriend was the last person to see Debbie.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Strange text messages she allegedly sent to her mother just days before she vanished.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "In case there is ever an emergency with me, contact Blu Griffith in Las Vegas, my ex-boyfriend, not my best friend."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Things seemed to be on the way up for her.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She had a gig lined up for the fantasy showgirl and saw her just days before she vanished.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He`s a joke. He`s a coward.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are taking your calls. Out to Monica in Georgia. Hi, Monica.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. Thank you so much for taking my call. You are amazing Grace.
GRACE: Thank you for calling in, dear. What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, first of all, I want to say, for the Narvaez family, I am holding them up in my prayers. My question is about the boyfriend -- the ex-boyfriend, that is. What is his background as far as a criminal background? This obviously isn`t his first rodeo.
GRACE: What do you know, Jean Casarez? Does he have a criminal history?
CASAREZ: Well, it`s interesting you mention that because he does, especially with Debbie Flores-Narvaez, domestic battery issues. He had been charged with domestic battery and coercion in October because of issues that they had together. And his initial court hearing, an important court hearing with that case, where Debbie was the victim, was to be shortly after Debbie was murdered.
GRACE: To Celeste Flores-Narvaez. This is Debbie`s sister. For those of you just joining us, this beautiful girl, Debbie Flores-Narvaez, the world in front of her, a law student, already had her MBA, her master`s in business, had been a Washington Redskins cheerleader, brains and beauty, gave it all up so she could follow her dream of being a dancer, and she made it. She actually made it, one of the few out of thousands that head to New York, thousands that head to Vegas to be a dancer. She made it and was in the prestigious Luxor fantasy dance review.
Her body has been found, just found. She was murdered and dismembered, her body found in multiple tubs, plastic tubs of cement. Celeste, did you or your family know that she had been beaten before by this guy, threatened before by him?
FLORES-NARVAEZ: No. I never knew that. I guess she was too proud. I mean, she was very confident with herself and she was very proud of the accomplishments that she did. I guess she didn`t want to seem like a failure in our eyes. And she`s talked to me about relationships before, but nothing of this magnitude. Never.
GRACE: Celeste, when you first learned that her body had been found, I`m sure police did not tell you that she had been dismembered and hidden in plastic tubs by her boyfriend. When did you learn the details?
FLORES-NARVAEZ: My mother called me up on Sunday, a day after I got here, and asked me if it was true. And I didn`t know what she was talking about. Came to find out that she found out through the media, and she told me and asked me. And that`s when I had to tell her that it was true.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A sexy.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Las Vegas showgirl.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Debbie Flores-Narvaez.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The remains that we found were our victim`s.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Found in tubs filled with cement.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Vanishes in Las Vegas.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This woman was last seen by her boyfriend.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Debbie`s ex-boyfriend, Jason Blu Griffith.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police say the last person to see her was an ex- boyfriend.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Her ex-boyfriend saw her around 7:38.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I miss you. And I just want to give you a hug and a kiss!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Unleash the lawyers. For those of you just joining us, this young beauty, beauty and brains, a law student, an MBA, a Washington Redskins cheerleader, NFL cheerleader, gives it all up, follows her dream to become a dancer. And she makes it. She actually makes it into the Luxor fantasy review, dancing in a major role. Her body has been found, dead, dismembered, and hidden in tubs of cement.
Jason Oshins, defense attorney out of New York, Carmen St. George, defense attorney, New York. You know, even Vegas, Nevada, has the death penalty. It`s the needle, Oshins!
JASON OSHINS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Right.
GRACE: Lethal injection. Give me your defense. I want to hear this.
OSHINS: Well, I think, Nancy, you`re going to look to try as defense counsel to somehow mitigate that capital penalty.
GRACE: Put him up. Put him up. Put him up!
OSHINS: You`re going to try and mitigate that, Nancy, and see...
GRACE: Dismembered!
OSHINS: Yes, I hear you.
GRACE: Tubs of cement.
OSHINS: That`s a felony on its own. But you`re going to try and mitigate that capital...
GRACE: This is a change your diaper moment...
OSHINS: I hear you, Nancy.
GRACE: ... he says to his roommate. Tell me the mitigation. What`s the mitigation?
OSHINS: You`re going to try and get this a crime of passion, maybe get a jury instruction of manslaughter.
OSHINS: What he fell on his head when he was in kindergarten?
OSHINS: That`s all you can work with, Nancy. You got to work with what you have.
GRACE: What about it, Carmen?
OSHINS: Nancy, I would say heat of passion. You`ve got to actually say that maybe there was a fear or rage or anger from a prior incident which provoked him.
GRACE: Oh, really? Well, what about when he went to Wal-Mart to buy the plastic containers? Was he in a rage then, too, Carmen?
ST. GEORGE: There`s no defense for the dismemberment of the body, Nancy.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Felt like I was entering the gates of hell, to know what he did to her, to know that he thought out his little plan, to know that he planned all this out.
I`d just rather skip court and pull the switch. I just -- I`d rather him be tortured like he -- the things that go through my mind is just unspeakable, with what I want to do to him, honestly. I see why people kind of lose it. I want to do exactly what he did to her, with no remorse at all whatsoever. And I believe in God.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Debbie Flores-Narvaez --
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Former NFL cheerleader.
CELESTE FLORES-NARVAEZ, SISTER OF MURDERED LAS VEGAS BEAUTY, DEBBIE FLORES-NARVAEZ: Saying it wasn`t premeditated.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Found dead.
FLORES-NARVAEZ: I don`t believe that.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: A Las Vegas showgirl`s ex-boyfriend has now been charged with her murder.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The arrest report shows he strangled her.
FLORES-NARVAEZ: I refuse to believe that you`re going to buy cement.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Then later had his roommate help dispose of her body.
FLORES-NARVAEZ: And get a U-Haul truck.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Griffith severed both of Flores` legs.
FLORES-NARVAEZ: And ask somebody to help you.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Then he put the body in tubs of concrete.
FLORES-NARVAEZ: Find a home, an abandoned house.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Take a look at this window. A sheet covering it and then all around the corners, a foam sealant.
FLORES-NARVAEZ: Hide her car.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Her car was found abandoned. Its license plate removed.
FLORES-NARVAEZ: You can`t tell me it wasn`t premeditated.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Horrific crime.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Police found her dismembered remains.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
NANCY GRACE, HOST: For those of you just joining us, let`s review what we know so far.
Jean Casarez joining us from "In Session."
Jean, after a very long search, the body of Debbie Flores-Narvaez has been found. Explain.
JEAN CASAREZ, LEGAL CORRESPONDENT, "IN SESSION": The body was found in two plastic tubs, green tubs with red handles purchased at Wal-Mart, like what you put Christmas decorations in, and she had been dismembered. Her legs had been cut. The two pieces had been put in plastic, one in either tub, cement poured over that.
Stored at a vacant home and it was sealed in a closet so no one would find it. But they did, and now the boyfriend, ex-boyfriend, Jason Griffith, has been charged with first degree murder.
GRACE: Joining us is Debbie`s sister, Celeste.
You spoke to the boyfriend before he was arrested, and he was just very cold. He was not empathetic at all. And I know his story was changing, and that`s the first thing that alerted cops he was wrong on his time. The first time he said she came by around 6:00.
The second time they talked to him he said oh, it was later in the evening, she didn`t even get out of her car, and they noticed the timeline was beginning to change.
What did he tell you?
FLORES-NARVAEZ: The first time he told me that she came over and it was -- basically the same thing, the timeline was a little different than the second time, when I spoke to him.
What I did was when I spoke to him the second time, I was actually in front of the computer typing down everything he told me, and then when I spoke to the roommate -- her roommate to see what he had told her, it was completely different.
He told me that she came by, they spoke for a minute and then she left. When I spoke to her, she told me that apparently she went -- he had told her that she went over there, watched a season finale of a show called "Dexter" and then he -- then she left to come back to the house.
GRACE: "Dexter"? He was into "Dexter" which is about murder and dismemberment? So a date for him is inviting his girlfriend over to watch murder and dismemberment?
FLORES-NARVAEZ: Apparently so.
GRACE: All right.
FLORES-NARVAEZ: Apparently so.
GRACE: To Dr. Michael Hunter, chief medical examiner, Panama City, Florida, forensic pathologist, joining us by Skype.
Doctor Hunter, it`s great to see you. Doctor, there are also reports that she was pregnant.
DR. MICHAEL HUNTER, M.D., CHIEF MEDICAL EXAMINER, PANAMA CITY, FL., FLORIDA PATHOLOGIST: Yes.
GRACE: If a body has been dismembered, is there any way to determine whether she was pregnant when he murdered her?
HUNTER: Yes. When we`re talking about dismemberment here, I believe we`re talking about the extremities so we`re not talking about injury to the torso. The primary thing that we`re concerned about is decomposition. What`s happened to that body over that -- almost month period. The tissues are breaking down and so forth.
What`s interesting to know is that the uterus is really one of the few structures that will not break down so quickly. So if there`s a pregnancy, say, into the second trimester, you should be able to identify that at examination, even though you would expect a lot of decomposition on a case like this.
GRACE: Explain to me what you`re saying about the uterus.
HUNTER: Well, you know the uterus is within the torso, it`s protected. It`s a sterile environment compared to really the remainder of the body. Decomposition is a process where bacteria just explodes in the body. Your tissues break down.
But the uterus is a structure that remains intact. It`s muscular, it`s fibrous, and even over a long period of time, you`re still able to examine the uterus where you may not be able to examine other visceral organs in the body.
GRACE: You know I remember, Doctor, when I was pregnant with the twins, I fell down a flight of stairs.
HUNTER: Right.
GRACE: And you know, I took it as best as I could. I was trying to protect my stomach and hit right on my knees trying not to fall when I hit bottom. But I was not that successful. I remember the doctor telling me how strong the uterus was.
So you`re saying that, if only the extremities had been dismembered, they will be able to tell whether she was pregnant?
HUNTER: Sure. I think even given a month and even given the decomposition, I think you`re still going to be able to examine that because it is a very tough, muscular structure, and it`s really one of the last things that is going to break down during that process.
So if I was to place a bet on it, I believe the pathologist in this case should be able to make that determination.
GRACE: Out to the lines. Lakisha in Indiana. Hi, Lakisha.
LAKISHA, CALLER FROM INDIANA: Hi, Nancy. Thank you for taking my call. The pictures that you showed last night of the twins were beautiful.
GRACE: Thank you.
LAKISHA: My thoughts and my prayers go out to the Narvaez family, and the gates of hell is open for that guy, so her sister don`t have to worry about that. He don`t deserve to live on taxpayers` money.
I think it does really qualify for a death penalty case and for the roommate helping him to try to dispose of her body, I think that he should be charged, too, with some years in jail.
And where was her body found? I would like to know that.
GRACE: It`s my understanding, Lakisha, that a friend of the boyfriend`s had gone out of the country for a period of time, and he takes -- he and his roommate, still roommate, along for the ride, ride straight to hell as far as I`m concerned, they take the tubs, the cement-filled tubs, they put them in this friend`s bedroom closet.
They seal the closet shut with like that spray foam. Lock the door. They put sheets and blankets over the windows, but the idiots leave the residue out in the den or the living room, I guess, where they originally had her in a big tub and decided that that wasn`t working.
Then they take her out of the tub of cement, crack it open, then they dismember her and put her in two tubs of cement.
Do I have that right, Jean Casarez? Are they that evil?
CASAREZ: Yes. You have it exactly right. Let me add one point. The original tub that was left sort of in the living room of the abandoned home, there was cement that had a handprint and there was some of her hair in that tub.
GRACE: You know, Celeste Flores-Narvaez, when you hear details like that, her handprint, her hair, how do you keep yourself from just going and killing this guy?
FLORES-NARVAEZ: She`s pushing me to find justice. Everything about her pushes me to get what`s coming to him. I`d rather just for him not to get like Lakisha said, I would rather him just not have the taxpayers` money. I would rather him and the roommate just pretty much let me have the way with him and put them both in electric chairs.
I don`t like the injection thing. Forget it. That`s too easy. I would rather put them in electric chairs and let me flick those switch on and off as many times as I want to until they`re pretty much dead.
GRACE: Are you going to go to the prosecutor and ask them to seek the death penalty? Because you know in every murder, they don`t seek the death penalty.
FLORES-NARVAEZ: Yes. Actually, I am going to ask the prosecutor and I would love to go before the judge and the trial and beg for the death penalty. Yes. I would love it.
GRACE: Well, I pray that you have that chance, Celeste.
To Marc Klaas, president, founder, KlaasKids Foundation, weigh in, Marc.
MARC KLAAS, PRESIDENT AND FOUNDER, KLAASKIDS FOUNDATION: Well, Celeste has every reason to feel the way she feels and to express the things she`s expressing, but the reality is that Celeste is not a killer. She`s not going to go and kill that guy.
I`m sure, I have exactly the same feelings about the guy that murdered my daughter and it`s been 17 years, and I believe that Celeste, just as myself, were offered the opportunity to inject that guy and to end his miserable life, that she would do it as I would do it, and drink champagne and celebrate in the aftermath of the ending of his miserable life.
GRACE: You know what I don`t understand -- to Mark Smith, retired detective, New York -- why isn`t the roommate behind bars? Because it`s not like they need him. The police have the evidence to nail the boyfriend. They don`t need the roommate`s testimony. So why cut a deal with him?
MARK SMITH, RETIRED DETECTIVE: They probably used his information to solve this case and that`s why.
GRACE: What do you mean?
SMITH: He probably cooperated at some point with the police, gave them a description of exactly what happened, every step that they took, the purchases and everything else, and so they`re going to use that testimony at the trial. Other than him, what do they have?
GRACE: Well, they`ve got the body. They`ve got fingerprints. They`ve got his statement to his former girlfriend that Debbie`s in the tub. They`ve got him asking her to store the dead body. They have got him at Wal-Mart buying the tubs, the plastic containers to hold her body.
They`ve got plenty, plus just because he gets the statement, the roommate gives a statement, that doesn`t mean they can`t prosecute him. He needs his first class ticket to hell right along with the boyfriend.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The sister of a murdered Las Vegas showgirl says her family found out the gruesome details of her death on the Internet.
FLORES-NARVAEZ: I want everybody to be charged. Everybody.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Just a terrible senseless end to a beautiful girl`s life.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Debbie Flores-Narvaez, gruesome details of her death.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Debbie Flores-Narvaez went to Blu Griffith`s house.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Flores and Griffith got in an argument at his home.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: It became physical.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: He strangled her.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: At one point the roommate says that he had to pull Blu Griffith off of her.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Griffith and Flores have had a volatile past.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: A search of Griffith`s house found a receipt for bleach and sponges.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Now charged with murder.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Another receipt from Home Depot showed a purchase of bags of concrete.
FLORES-NARVAEZ: Do what he did to her, place her like she wasn`t nothing in it and filled her up, and then find a home, an abandoned house, and placed her in there.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Sad, tragic, horrible story.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Before we take you to Maryland and the case of a 16-year-old honor student who is gone missing, out to the lines, Michelle in Georgia.
Hi, Michelle.
MICHELLE, CALLER FROM GEORGIA: Hi, Nancy. How are you?
GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s your question?
MICHELLE: There have been conflicting reports on exactly how they were led to her body. One story said that they traced his cell phone, the ex-boyfriend, to the location of her body. Another story said that they got an anonymous tip.
So I`m curious.
GRACE: OK.
MICHELLE: Did the roommate make that anonymous tip, perhaps lead them to her, and that`s why they have struck some kind of deal with him?
GRACE: Good questioning. You know, this guy, the boyfriend, is not some thug off the street. He was a Vegas star, too. He had a starring role in Cirque de Soleil`s "Love" is the name of it. Cirque de Soleil theatrical performance that`s at Vegas long-running right now. So they were both in this field, in it together, so to speak.
What about that tip, Jean Casarez? What do we know?
CASAREZ: That`s a good question. I know that the ex-girlfriend that they tried to store the tub at, she went to a police friend of hers and gave all the information that she knew, but that roommate gave a lot of information, too.
GRACE: And you know, when your husband or your boyfriend suddenly turns into a neat-nick as soon as you go missing, that`s like a big red flag to police.
Think about these cases. Remember Scott Peterson, who murdered his wife and unborn child, Laci and Conner? Washed clothes, cleaned the kitchen, took a shower after wrapping Laci`s body in a tarp.
Jesse Crowe. We had him on video throwing bags into a dumpster in the backyard after his wife Ryann Bunnell went missing.
Bobby Cutts, he used a bleach to clean up a crime scene in the murder of his pregnant girlfriend, Jessie.
David Westerfield used bleach to clean up after murdering his little neighbor, Danielle Van Dam, went to dry cleaner`s with two comforters, pillow covers and the jacket covered in blood. That was smart, Westerfield.
Cesar Laurean, remember him, both he and his victim in the military, tried to clean up a large amount of blood after killing Maria Louterbach. And even painted the inside of his home.
Amanda Knox, Raffaele Sollecito, Rudy Guede, allegedly tried to clean a knife, other items in the apartment, after the death of Meredith Kircher.
It goes on and on and on. And here we`ve got this guy purchasing bleach and other cleaning materials.
Last word to you, Celeste Flores-Narvaez. Tell me how your family is doing, how your mom is holding up.
FLORES-NARVAEZ: They`re really not. My mom is -- my mom was my sister`s best friend. It`s extremely hard for her as well as my father. I`m trying to keep really strong for the family. I`ve basically decided to take the lead role into doing pretty much everything so my family can mourn, while I take charge of everything else, so they can be at peace.
GRACE: Tonight, we remember Debbie Flores-Narvaez.
We are switching gears very quickly. I want you to know about a missing 16-year-old girl and honor student, who goes missing in Maryland. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Police say Phylicia Barnes, a 16-year-old senior, was visiting her father in Baltimore when she vanished.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s not like her character to disappear.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: She was reported missing.
ANTHONY GUGLIELMI, CHIEF OF PUBLIC AFFAIRS, BALTIMORE POLICE DEPT.: This is not the case of a runaway.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: A missing poster still hangs on the apartment window where she was last seen.
GUGLIELMI: It is very unlike her to not update her Facebook page.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That`s not her character.
GUGLIELMI: To not even turn on her cell phone.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That`s just not her personality.
GUGLIELMI: We do suspect some type of foul play.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Phylicia Barnes` Facebook page and computers are now being studied.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I want my daughter back.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This should not happen to no child. Nowhere in this country.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are taking your calls. I want to go straight out to Deputy Anthony Guglielmi, chief of public affairs, Baltimore Police Department.
Deputy, I understand you`ve got a little bit of news for me regarding what the bloodhounds, the tracking dogs, have found out front?
GUGLIELMI: Nancy, we actually did some extensive searches of the Patapsco Valley State Park up in Maryland, which is in Baltimore County right outside the city of Baltimore, and unfortunately, we did not find anything to lead this case forward.
We`re pretty much at square one. We`ve thrown every single resource we have at this case. Today we had a meeting with homicide and the FBI and we decided that these searches that we`ve been doing throughout the city are not based on any type of intelligence. They`re random searches of areas that we think we may find Phylicia, but at this point, we`re going to discontinue those and really focus on the people that have last seen Phylicia alive, make sure that the timelines are consistent, that their stories are consistent.
And the next search we do will be led by evidence hopefully. But we are pleading for the public`s help in this case.
GRACE: Jean Casarez, what happened the night the 16-year-old went missing?
CASAREZ: OK. Let`s look at the timeline. December 28th between 12:30 and 1:00, after the noon time hour. She spoke with her half sister, actually a text message, saying that she was going to go out to get something to eat and maybe get her hair cut. Then that was the last thing the ex-boyfriend, last person to see her.
GRACE: Joining me right now a special guest, Janice Sallis, mother of Phylicia Barnes.
Janice, thank you for being with us. Tell me about your girl.
JANICE SALLIS, MOM OF MISSING TEEN GIRL, STRAIGHT-A STUDENT, PHYLICIA BARNES: Actually, a lot of things need to be cleared. If my daughter was going to get her hair done and if her sister -- her half sister Kelly Barnes was going to take her to get her hair done, she is not going to get dressed and lay down on the couch to sleep.
She`s going to wait for her sister or whoever is going to come pick her up. She`s not going to fall asleep. She did not fall and get anything. All of her money and her credit card that I gave her was left behind.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Police now say they fear a missing North Carolina teen was abducted or harmed.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As far as foul play, we can`t rule that out.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Phylicia hasn`t made any contact with friends or family, hasn`t used her cell phone, ATM card.
GUGLIELMI: We`re going over every single shred of evidence just to make sure we didn`t miss anything.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: To Marc Klaas, what do you think, Marc?
KLAAS: Well, I think we have to listen to mom. Mom knows this girl better than anybody. She knows that she wouldn`t lie down and take a nap. She knows that her money was left behind and that her credit cards were left behind.
These raise red flags. One has to focus on the last individuals to see this girl and find out exactly what the timelines are and then take it from there. The police have obviously conducted an intense investigation and they`re at square one so they do need more help.
GRACE: To Janice Sallis, Phylicia`s mother. What should we know about her as a person?
SALLIS: She`s a flower. She is so compassionate. She is so loving. She does not like confrontation. She has no enemies. Everybody takes to her. She`s just a wonderful person to know. She`s smart. But she is strange to the street. She knows nothing about city life.
She`s a country girl that I protected, and before I released her to Baltimore when she found her half sisters two years ago, hadn`t had any contact with her father from eight to 10 consecutive years --
GRACE: Janice --
SALLIS: And I --
GRACE: We are not going to give up in the search for your daughter. And, please, join us tomorrow night as we continue in the search for Phylicia. The tipline, 855-223-0033.
Let`s stop and remember Army Specialist Jose Ruiz, 28, Brentwood, killed Iraq. Worked as a computer network engineer, inspired to join the military after September 11. Loved martial arts. Leaves behind mother Juliana, step father Eduardo, wife Alexi, daughter Leanna.
Jose Ruiz, American hero.
Tonight our prayers with New Jersey friend Robert Hugh who suffered a stroke, married to wife Joan, 54 years, an engineer who served on his school board 30 plus years, Army Reserve 30 years. Father of four, grandfather of seven. Great grandfather of two.
Get well, Robert.
And thank you to Leonor Lozada, El Paso, Texas, for the beautiful framed cross stitch of the twins. In fact it was so beautiful I gave it to my husband as a Christmas gift. That`s why I couldn`t thank you before. It`d blow the Christmas surprise.
Thanks to our guests but especially to you. I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. Until then, good night, friend.
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