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Joy Behar Page
Olbermann`s Ouster; The Wynonna Way; Interview With Donny Deutsch
Aired January 25, 2011 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JOY BEHAR, HOST: Well, the Oscar nominations are in and to help you pick the winners, here`s my quick rundown of the nominated films. "The Kids are All Right", loved it; "Black Swan", lost weight, bought the tutu; "Social Network", loved it, hated him; "127 Hours", I thought that was about Scarlet Johansson`s marriage; "The Fighter", Mel Gibson`s marriage, no?
"True Grit", where was John Wayne. "Winter`s Bone", oh my God, Kate Moss in the winter, yes? "Toy Story", over my head. "Inception" gave me such a headache. "The King`s Speech", my fave. All I can say about that movie is --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Coming up on the JOY BEHAR SHOW, one day after the Moscow airport terrorist attack, former Minnesota governor Jesse Ventura sues the federal government, saying the TSA`s tactics are unconstitutional. But when terrorists focus so much on airports, aren`t pat-downs a necessary evil?
And Oscar season is here. Joy will have the surprises, the snubs and the strange, including why best actor nominee James Franco has a lot of respect for fellow actors in porn.
Plus, country legend Wynonna Judd tells Joy about her first novel and her new show at the Oprah Winfrey Network.
That and more starting right now.
BEHAR: Keith Olbermann made his last appearance Friday, but it`s still a big topic of conversation including on Fox. Listen to Bill O`Reilly last night.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BILL O`REILLY, FOX NEWS HOST: In tonight`s big shake-up at MSNBC. They`re moving their primetime line-up around and replacing a hateful commentator.
BERNIE GOLDBERG, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Did somebody leave MSNBC?
O`REILLY: Yes, they took one of their guys out. And then they`re moving everybody else around. It doesn`t really matter who the guy is or why they took him out.
GOLDBERG: So, you don`t want to tell me who it was. Ok.
O`REILLY: No, I don`t want to get involved with any of that personal stuff.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: He won`t mention his name. What is he, 12? Here now to discuss Olbermann`s departure and the ramifications are Bill Press, radio talk show host and author of "Toxic Talk"; and E.D. Hill, conservative pundit and former Fox News Channel anchor. I just love both of you. I think it`s great that you`re both here.
BILL PRESS, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Hi Joy.
BEHAR: Hi. So let me start with Bill because you`re out there in the -- I don`t know where you are. Where are you? In Washington, right?
PRESS: I`m in Washington, D.C., our nation`s Capitol. All right.
BEHAR: I talked to you this morning. I feel like I`m living with you, Bill.
PRESS: I love it. I`m ready for it. Move in.
BEHAR: Oh, ok. So what do you think about Bill O`Reilly not even mentioning his name?
PRESS: I think it`s hilarious. I mean you know, E.D. knows, Keith Olbermann and Bill O`Reilly have had this spat that`s going on for like, I don`t know, the last five or six years --
BEHAR: Yes.
PRESS: And the difference is that O`Reilly will never mention Olbermann`s name, but Keith always mentions Bill O`Reilly`s name. So this, I think the crowning glory is for Keith to leave and Bill O`Reilly still won`t mention his name. You know.
E.D. HILL, FORMER FOX NEWS CHANNEL ANCHOR: You know what? I look at it --
PRESS: He can call him the worst person in the world or something like that.
HILL: I look at it as Bill is rising above this whole fray. You know, every time Keith would go after Bill, he names him like Bill this, Bill that and he was pretty vicious about it.
BEHAR: He was rough on him. I remember, yes.
HILL: And Bill just, he`s like the guy, whoever. I think it`s the way it ends.
BEHAR: But you know what? Don`t they do this for ratings? Let`s face it.
HILL: I think Olbermann did. You know I worked with Bill for a long time.
BEHAR: Yes.
HILL: And every time Bill would initially, and this is going back years ago, mention Keith`s name, his numbers would bump up a little bit. Because people go, who`s this guy that`s going after Bill? And they tune in to just check it out. It`s like, why? Why give your competition anything?
BEHAR: That`s true.
PRESS: No, no, no. But you know one of the oldest games in this business, we all know, is you go after the guy that`s bigger than you and you try to egg him on. Listen, I take on Rush Limbaugh or kind of insult or tweak him as much I can on my radio show hoping that somebody will play the clip and he`ll respond.
HILL: Bill is too smart for that.
BEHAR: This is why I`m always teasing Snooki. I have the same exact agenda. Now, do you think that MSNBC is going to replace Olbermann with another fiery guy or they`re going to put somebody easy and nice in there?
HILL: Sounds like they`re taking their 10:00 guy and moving him in there and that`s going to be it. Doesn`t sound like he`s quite as angry as Olbermann was. But it sounds like the network is still going to continue this ship set, you know.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: But it seems as though there`s a Kumbaya thing going on. Roger Ailes told his people to tone it down after the Tucson incident and the State of the Union, they`re all sitting together. And Olbermann`s is just too fiery. Is this going to last or is this a bunch of baloney?
PRESS: You know, I don`t expect it to last very long. And I hope it doesn`t last very long. Not that it has to be mean and nasty. But I mean people have just to be themselves.
But you know, on MSNBC, I think MSNBC is definitely going to continue where they`re going. They have an identity now. They have a mission. They have you know, people know that this is where you go for left-leaning opinion. You`ve got Ed Schultz who`s, you know, as close to Keith I think as anybody on MNBC, who`s moving up to 10:00. Lawrence O`Donnell; you have Rachel Maddow.
You have some strong people there. Chris Matthews --
BEHAR: All right. Don`t give the whole line up.
(CROSSTALK)
PRESS: All right. I`m sorry.
All I`m saying is that Keith leaves a big hole, but there are a lot of other guys there to fill in.
BEHAR: Yes.
HILL: The question is, how smart, I think, is the business plan of figuring you`re going to go for this relatively small and narrowing niche audience. And when you take look at the polls and people who claim that they are liberal, conservative and independent, the independents keep growing. The liberals keep on ebbing away. I think it`s not quite the right business plan to go after just one small audience.
BEHAR: What do you consider me? Do you consider me a liberal E.D.?
HILL: No.
BEHAR: You don`t.
HILL: No, I don`t. I consider you farther to the left, certainly. But ultra-liberal, no.
PRESS: Hey, listen. I got to say, I`m a --
(CROSSTALK)
PRESS: E.D. I am a liberal. But you know, if you add the liberals and the liberals who are afraid to call themselves liberals so they call themselves progressive, right. And then you add independents --
(CROSSTALK)
PRESS: We outnumber the conservatives and there`s a big audience for progressive talk on radio and television.
HILL: Yes, but you know, when I talk to folks, I assume that they`re intelligent. If you tell me you watch only one type of thing or you read only one newspaper, that happens to be the newspaper or the show that echoes everything you think, you`re really not exposing yourself to a lot of other dialogue that makes you think.
PRESS: You are talking about Fox viewers. That is exactly Fox viewers and right-wing talk radio. That`s exactly who they are.
HILL: No, I would -- you know what, I would disagree.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Completely different.
PRESS: They never listen to anybody else. You know that.
HILL: Look, I don`t work for Fox anymore, but I would argue every single day that they are not right wing. You can take your commentary -- wait a second -- you can take your commentary at night as you do at MSNBC and you can put that into opinion. Is that to the right? Yes. And is MSNBC to the left?
But daytime, CNN and Fox, you`ve got pretty -- pretty fair news.
PRESS: Let`s just be honest ok. Fox is the right wing network. Let`s be honest.
HILL: I disagree with you and I worked there. You know, I know.
PRESS: Roger Ailes admits that.
HILL: He does not. I staffed there. When you would go, when you would do a segment and they felt that it was too far to the right or that the guest, that you expect to be more down the center went too far to the right, you got it in your ear telling you, make sure you book somebody to counter this person.
I have so say and I have nothing to do with Fox anymore --
BEHAR: Who is to the left on Fox.
Juan Williams was the only one.
HILL: You would bring in guests so they were always trying to focus on talking about daytime news. They were always trying to focus.
(CROSSTALK)
PRESS: Joy, Joy, I just want you to know, this is breaking news. Breaking news. Fox is not conservative. All right. Tell the world.
BEHAR: Well, let`s face it. Didn`t you get the axe over at Fox?
HILL: I left Fox.
BEHAR: You left Fox. So you weren`t fired. You left.
HILL: You know --
BEHAR: Because I had been fired from many jobs and I shout it from the rooftop.
(CROSSTALK)
HILL: And I have been fired from a job, it was not that one. There was something they wanted me to do, that it was something that I did not want to do and that was it. And so I worked on my contract and I --
PRESS: For the record, I want to say that I was fired by CNN and by MSNBC and I`m proud of it.
BEHAR: All right. But you know, here`s the thing, it seem as though personalities are now driving all these shows. CNN has lot of trouble staying neutral. You know, they really do. And everybody knows that at this point.
Isn`t there a place for neutral news anymore? Nobody wants to watch that as you just said.
HILL: I think CNN used to be farther to the left. And I think that CNN --
BEHAR: They were? When? How can you say --
(CROSSTALK)
HILL: My boss was to the right and CNN wasn`t to the left. I think they both do a very good job of being --
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: It was not. You`re talking about apples and oranges now E.D.
HILL: Of being in the center as much as possible during daytime. That`s what I`m talking about here. But night time, you know, look at that people watch on prime time on the broadcast networks. They`re not watching cerebral "Meet the Press". Excuse me, Bill. They`re watching things about folks tearing each other down, stabbing each other in the back to win some kind of reality show.
BEHAR: What`s the point? Where are you going with this.
HILL: What I`m saying is, they`re going for things that aren`t so nice, so it`s not surprising that they`re watching evening programming on the cable networks where people bite at everybody else.
BEHAR: Ok. Bill, last word. I have to go.
PRESS: All right. I`m saying this to you. There is no place for this namby-pamby CNN any more. It`s either all right or all left. Nobody wants that mindless middle. We want strong opinion
BEHAR: What about my show? This is mindless middle right here. And I love it.
That`s true. You say I`m not a liberal. That`s interesting. I consider myself a liberal, progressive liberal.
HILL: You do?
PRESS: I think you are.
BEHAR: Yes. With enormous boobs.
Thanks guys. We`ll be back in a minute with Wynonna Judd.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: She is one-half of country music`s most iconic duo, The Judds. Selling over 30 million albums, she`s a Grammy winner and now, a novelist. Her debut novel "Restless Heart" is the story of a young woman who dreams of being a country star. I wonder -- is it based on anyone we know?
I`m happy to welcome back to my show the lovely and talented Miss Wynonna Judd. I`m so happy to have you back here.
WYNONNA JUDD, AUTHOR, "RESTLESS HEART": Thank you lovely Joy.
BEHAR: So we can call this novel a Romana Clay (ph) because it`s based on you?
JUDD: It is indeed. It`s -- it`s not an autobiographical, but it`s as close to being -- and it`s living truthfully in imaginary circumstances. That`s the great thing about writing a novel versus your own story.
BEHAR: Yes, yes, yes.
JUDD: Because you can embellish.
BEHAR: Yes.
JUDD: And you can get away with it and people don`t sue you because you can say, oh, that guy was based on -- you know, an ex-boyfriend or something. It`s a great way to inspire -- listen, I`m a home school mom. My kids need to read. I`m constantly saying, turn the TV off, sorry; and saying, turn on your imagination.
(CROSS TALK)
BEHAR: It`s all right. They`re not in our demographics.
JUDD: Exactly. Ok. Well, you`ll be surprised. I think it`s important for these young women and men to know that it`s ok to dream and to take risks.
BEHAR: Well, you said that -- you wrote this because quote, "I want to communicate with the next generation. They`re over stimulated and have entitlement issues." I read that, what do you mean over --
JUDD: Are you sure about -- over-stimulated.
BEHAR: Yes.
JUDD: These electronics and -- you know my son is texting his girlfriend while he`s talking to me at breakfast and I`m like he, no, you know, cell phone at meals and -- I`m starting to take the electronics away.
BEHAR: You are.
JUDD: So that we have conversations. And kids don`t know how to punch in phone numbers. They know number one on the keypad. My point is I`m from a generation where we road in the backseat of a car for a year for radio stations meet and greet. And shaking howdy is what we called it grip and grin. The constant communication.
Nowadays, we can e-mail. Do you ever got an e-mail birthday card?
BEHAR: Yes.
JUDD: How do you feel about that?
BEHAR: I don`t like them.
JUDD: Yes.
BEHAR: I want to touch it.
JUDD: Exactly.
BEHAR: I want to hold it and touch it and --
JUDD: I want it to be real. For me and I love it because this morning said, you know well, every time we see you, you`re doing something different. I love communication. I love the fact that I can inspire another 12, 13-year-old girl like Destiny who has had pretty tough way to go like I did.
BEHAR: Destiny Heart is the title of the girl. Where did you get -- come up with that one?
JUDD: Well, you see -- you know all you have to do is show up and merely, you know, step into your Destiny. And so I -- I named her that.
BEHAR: And have some heart.
JUDD: What a concept.
BEHAR: Ok. Now, let`s talk about your reality show that you have with your mom.
JUDD: It`s not reality.
BEHAR: It`s not?
JUDD: No, it was my reality.
BEHAR: Well, it`s on -- it`s on -- oh, ok. So all of them are sort of skewed, one way or another.
JUDD: But you know what, it`s called an unscripted docu-series based on two women that come from two different generations. A mother and a daughter trying to heal a relationship. We`re on tour together, Joy. Try it sometime with your parents it`s -- it`ll bring you together.
BEHAR: Yes.
JUDD: And the cameras are following us around and we are literally going on stage in front of thousands of people and coming off and going back to the farm and be with kids and you know her sing and there was her dog.
BEHAR: Let`s watch a clip.
JUDD: Oh.
BEHAR: Yes we have a clip.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do I have to continue to walk four feet behind you or can I walk with you.
JUDD: You think I`m a great singer but I`m not a great daughter. How many times does she have to say it?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Maybe I -- I`ve been through all this stuff I`ve been through my life so that I can express pain, disappointment and hope.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: It`s -- tell me about --
JUDD: Ow.
BEHAR: Yes. Why do you say that?
JUDD: Well, I -- I haven`t seen stuff and we just finished, we just wrapped up.
BEHAR: So you have never watched it.
JUDD: I haven`t -- I haven`t seen stuff so --
BEHAR: So what do you -- what do you feel when you watch yourself?
JUDD: I want to cry.
BEHAR: You feel like crying? Because?
JUDD: Because if it`s not one thing, it`s your mother.
BEHAR: Yes.
JUDD: You know, she`s around me my whole life, we sing together and yet, I -- I love her so much and the older she gets, you know, the more I see her vulnerability.
BEHAR: I know. It makes your hard to get mad at them. It makes it very difficult as they get older.
JUDD: She`s so cute it`s irritating sometimes because she`s just so cute and she wears these little (INAUDIBLE) dresses and I love her.
BEHAR: But you also say in the show, "I didn`t have a childhood because I worked for Naomi Judd." Did she pay well? I mean, what do you mean --
JUDD: So I worked for her.
BEHAR: What do you mean by that?
JUDD: Child labor -- remember those days when you couldn`t come in until it was dark, you know and you had to earn things.
BEHAR: Yes.
JUDD: When you didn`t get jobs, you did chores until you`re like 25.
BEHAR: Yes.
JUDD: And then your parents let you out of the house. We just didn`t have the options and the voice that kids today do. And so for me, it was all about her and how I could please her. And I wanted to be the good kid.
BEHAR: Yes.
JUDD: I did poorly at that a lot of the times just as a rebellion. I tell you what that we made it though, Joy. Yes this book, she had a father that didn`t support her on music. My mom supported me in music, thank God, but in Destiny`s case, she didn`t have a lot of support. And I know there are people out there who feel anonymous.
Mom and I made it when I was 18. Welfare -- you know, from welfare to millionaire.
BEHAR: It`s tough.
JUDD: It is very tough.
BEHAR: Very tough.
JUDD: You know the business. And so this girl, I want to give hope to other kids reading this book to go -- you know what, if Wynonna can do it, so can I.
BEHAR: That`s good.
JUDD: It is. It`s necessary I think today.
BEHAR: But did you watch Oprah the other day? She has -- she has a complicated life just like yours in a way you know?
JUDD: I`m getting ready to meet a brother that I`ve never met.
BEHAR: Oh really? Oh.
JUDD: Well, I can relate --
BEHAR: Same mother, you and Ashley are half --
JUDD: Same father.
BEHAR: Same father as Ashley.
JUDD: The plot thickens.
BEHAR: Wait a second, Ashley and you have the same mother and now Ashley and you have the same father?
JUDD: No, there were different fathers.
The third person is my half brother, I hate the word half, just to me I`m just going to look at it and say bonus brother. And so watching that show, I don`t -- I can`t watch it yet. But I can relate to her. Of course she and I are so similar. Maybe I`ll try my own network, I don`t know.
BEHAR: That could be.
JUDD: I think she -- she looks at our family and goes, oh, I feel pretty normal today.
BEHAR: When did you find out about this brother?
JUDD: When I was -- about ten years ago.
BEHAR: But you`re now prepared to -- to make it public which you didn`t before. Well, it`s interesting Oprah`s sister, half sister didn`t want to really go public, she just wanted to locate Oprah.
JUDD: Well, good luck being Oprah`s half sister and not going public.
BEHAR: Well, she admits it.
JUDD: And that`s a tough one, right.
BEHAR: Well, now she is, but she didn`t -- in other words, she did not get in touch with the -- with the media to get to Oprah.
(CROSSTALK)
JUDD: See that`s important. And that`s my situation. My other family out there did not do the same thing because they didn`t want me to think it`s all about fame and fortune.
BEHAR: So when did you meet this brother?
JUDD: I won`t until probably --
(CROSS TALK)
BEHAR: Oh you didn`t meet him.
JUDD: -- six months to a year.
BEHAR: Are you nervous about it, how do you, you`re scared.
Oh, I can`t wait to meet him, too.
JUDD: Well, there`s -- you know, whether it`s the novel or the TV show of my life is an open book, literally and figuratively, so let`s see what happens.
BEHAR: Wow. Who -- God knows what else is going to come out of the closet with your family.
JUDD: There`s another family out there.
BEHAR: They`re out there. You know what --
JUDD: Don`t write me, yet.
BEHAR: Who, the brother?
JUDD: Just don`t write me yet, I`m not ready. When I`m ready I`ll let you know.
BEHAR: How did you find out?
JUDD: I was in an airport, a woman walked up to me and said, hello my name is and I`m your cousin. And I went --
BEHAR: Yes.
JUDD: Ok. And the next thing I know, I have a brother and a niece and a nephew that I`ve never met.
BEHAR: Wow.
JUDD: So, my life is a complicated, you know, soap opera at times, but you know what, I`m -- I`m still here Joy and you`ve known me a long time.
BEHAR: I do know you.
JUDD: I`m a survivor.
BEHAR: You certainly are my dear and you`re a bedazzled survivor.
Sell it girl.
We`ll have more with Wynonna Judd after a short break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`ve always wanted to ask you, which of you is the mother? Which one is the daughter?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m the mother.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Wow, I just lost ten bucks and I suddenly feel weird.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A lot of people make that mistake. It`s the bosom thing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: That was "Saturday Night Live" spoofing my guest, country superstar, Wynonna Judd. They make fun of a lot of people over there.
JUDD: But they say until they do that, you haven`t really made it until you`ve become a spoof on "Saturday Night Live".
BEHAR: You have to have a sense of humor about it. It`s fun.
JUDD: I`m not bitter.
BEHAR: So let`s talk about this weight loss. I heard you lost 55 pounds through brain state conditioning. What is that?
JUDD: Exactly. Let`s just say go on the Web site, it`s brainstatetech.com and find out for yourself. It`s a long story. It`s a deep and wide system of learning how to replace trauma with new (INAUDIBLE). So I don`t want take major life altering medications anymore.
BEHAR: So it`s kind of like why you`re emotional --
(CROSSTALK)
JUDD: It`s balancing your tires, people. Your brain wants to heal it allows your brain to see the trauma and you heal. And you just walk out of there feeling this bright light that you didn`t feel before.
I can`t explain it. Just try it.
BEHAR: I understand. You were emotional leader of some sort.
JUDD: I was an emotional everything. I was one of those people that people didn`t know what to do with but they love, so they put me in music. Let`s stick her on the music program because she`s not like all the other kids. I found my way through art. Thank God.
BEHAR: It`s a good thing they did that.
JUDD: Well yes. Now, I`m getting paid for it.
BEHAR: Maybe you can write a diet book.
JUDD: Maybe I won`t use that word though Joy. That word, d-i-e-t, food program for woman who haven`t learned to say no. I mean I talk to Oprah about this all the time about how women are great martyrs. And I was one too.
I definitely have written books about what not to do and how to ruin everything by being that yes person, people pleaser.
BEHAR: Let me ask you a couple of questions from Twitter because people are interested in you.
You once turned down the chance to sing with Frank Sinatra, someone said, why. That true?
JUDD: I was young, busy and arrogant.
BEHAR: You were arrogant.
JUDD: My manager and I both were so busy doing stuff, he said you know, we`ll get to it later. And it just never got to later.
BEHAR: Where were you going to be singing with him?
JUDD: On a record.
BEHAR: And you said no?
JUDD: I didn`t say no. He did. And then he talked me into it kind of thing. I was 12 at the time.
BEHAR: You know what? A lot of people do duets with dead people. You can still do it.
JUDD: I just did one with Elvis last Christmas.
BEHAR: There you go. See?
JUDD: I can make up for it.
BEHAR: You could do one with Sinatra.
JUDD: I know. I feel bad about that. It was one of those, I`ll get to it in a minute and like going to visit your relatives. I`ll do it next Christmas and it doesn`t happen. So I`m embarrassed about that.
BEHAR: Ok. Here`s another. This woman says --
JUDD: Thanks for writing in.
BEHAR: I`m a black woman and a long time fan. What can country music do to attract and maintain a larger black audience? That`s a big question for you. I mean you`re not in charge --
JUDD: Well, first of all --
(CROSSTALK)
JUDD: I`m in the club.
BEHAR: You`re in the club.
JUDD: For black women, yes. Black women are me for Halloween, I found out. I`m in. I think because I`ve worked at it -- listen, I`ve been doing this 25 years. I don`t mean to sound arrogant. I`m just excited. I have such a diverse audience from Wall Street to Wal-Mart.
You know Joy, there is no separation anymore. Black women and men, when I do Oprah, when I do these shows. I open for all the Ray Charles; I`ve had the greatest career. I`ve just gotten to sing with Stevie Wonder. I`ve been there, done that.
BEHAR: I know you have. I think there aren`t enough black country singers though, are there?
JUDD: I don`t doubt that at all. I don`t really sit there and pay attention to the ratio. But I will tell you this, in my audiences, I see different.
BEHAR: You do?
JUDD: I do.
BEHAR: I`m sure you do.
JUDD: Gay, straight, black or white. I see everybody. To me music is good or bad. I don`t see it as (INAUDIBLE) like other people do.
BEHAR: You know it`s always lovely to have you here.
JUDD: It`s always lovely to be anywhere.
BEHAR: I enjoy you.
JUDD: Well, have me back.
BEHAR: Thank you for doing this.
JUDD: So they won`t let me do other shows.
BEHAR: When you write your other food book, don`t say d-i-e-t.
JUDD: It`s a food program. Live it. Let`s live it Joy. Let`s go into partnership.
BEHAR: Ok. Wynonna`s new novel is called "Restless Heart". We`ll be back in a minute.
Thank you darling.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CARLOS DIAZ, HLN GUEST HOST: Tonight on "SHOWBIZ TONIGHT", another Oprah shocker. Oprah speaks out today about the fallout over her big family secret.
11:00 p.m. Eastern and Pacific on HLN.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: James Franco, he`s so cute. He`s known for dramatic roles in movies like "127 Hours," but now, he is admitting to starring in a whole other genre -- amateur porn. This is what he said -- he said, "I remember when I was 19 doing that, and then watching it back and thinking, oh, that looks horrible. So you have a lot of respect for those actors in pornography, because they`re really not just doing it, they`re really selling it."
Here to talk about this and other stories in the news tonight, are Donny Deutsch, host of "Love Calling" on Bravo. Lisa Birnbach, author of "True Prep: It`s a Whole New Old World." And Belinda Luscombe, editor at large for "Time" magazine.
All right, Lisa, how long before this sex tape gets leaked and does he care?
LISA BIRNBACH, AUTHOR, "TRUE PREP": He doesn`t care. He`s not acting like a potential Oscar host. I know we`re going to get to that. He`s acting like somebody who`s an art project. A human art project, you know?
BEHAR: Yeah, yeah.
BIRNBACH: He`s an art student. Today he was at New Haven going to classes.
BEHAR: Oh, yes.
BIRNBACH: Code, of course.
BEHAR: He`s fascinating, this guy.
BIRNBACH: He is fascinating. I -- but there is something--
BEHAR: Would you watch the tape?
BIRNBACH: I would -- I would deny it, but I would watch it.
BEHAR: You would?
BIRNBACH: Yes, I would, and then I`d act it out with my friends.
BEHAR: Donny, besides --
(LAUGHTER)
BELINDA LUSCOMBE, TIME MAGAZINE: I think you might come to regret that, especially if you taped it.
BEHAR: Besides you and I, who else would want to watch a sex tape of you?
DONNY DEUTSCH, HOST, "LOVE CALLING": First of all, I really should kind of excuse myself in this segment, because I`ve never seen pornography before, so I`m just going to stick to this kind of--
BEHAR: Oh, please, come on!
DEUTSCH: -- as a media pundit.
(CROSSTALK)
DEUTSCH: You know what, I -- I thought you were going to say something about you or I on tape. But that`s for another show.
(CROSSTALK)
DEUTSCH: Nobody`s watching me on the tape. But you know what I like about this? I think the more celebrities kind of, no pun intended, derobed and kind of show their people, and you know, this is what we do and I did crazy -- here`s what, he`s 19, he did something silly and crazy. Who cares. I mean, and an actor. God forbid, an actor at 19 was going something crazy and making sex tapes. What a shock.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: I was eating cheeseburgers around the clock when I was 19.
DEUTSCH: What a shock. I`m not quite sure where the news is on this one, you know? I mean--
BEHAR: But let me talk to Belinda, because the guy, you`re from "Time" magazine, maybe you know what he`s up to, because apparently, he`s up -- it`s in talks to be in a movie about Linda Lovelace. Do you think this is just a publicity stunt?
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: So that he lands the role?
LUSCOMBE: He`s a very (inaudible) guy. You know, he did that whole soap opera thing where he played a character called Franco. It was also an art show. He`s either a very shrewd performance artist or he`s a complete nut job. I think the--
(CROSSTALK)
BIRNBACH: Who leaked the story about -- did he leak his own porn tape?
(CROSSTALK)
BIRNBACH: He told the press.
BEHAR: About that he has one.
BIRNBACH: Does he have the press with him at all times?
(CROSSTALK)
DEUTSCH: I think we have to distinguish -- I`m not (inaudible) my show is coming out -- the difference between pornography and maybe young people or couples who maybe make tapes of themselves. I think that`s somewhat--
BEHAR: And then put them out in the public?
DEUTSCH: He didn`t put it out in public. He just made a statement that he had a newfound respect for what these actors do in these movies, so I don`t think it`s that unusual in this country -- I`m going to ask you an honest question, right.
BEHAR: Yeah.
DEUTSCH: Have you ever in your entire life taken any photographs of you and a loved one?
BEHAR: No. Are you crazy?
DEUTSCH: What`s -- are you sure?
BEHAR: I`d kiss somebody in a burka before I`d do that.
(LAUGHTER)
DEUTSCH: I`m not talking about now that you`re a media person. I want to go back 1969--
BEHAR: No, no!
DEUTSCH: -- time for a little crazy.
BEHAR: Don`t even bring up that year.
DEUTSCH: All the ganja going around in the world. You sure?
BEHAR: No, no, nothing. Nothing. I was a good Catholic girl. Very scared. I was. I changed, but I was. All right.
LUSCOMBE: I think there are two types of people, those who like at themselves naked and those who don`t. And I think we are in the latter half.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: But for a man to see me naked, I have to be in his will.
(LAUGHTER)
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Surprise, surprise, James Franco, whom we`ve been talking about, is nominated for best actor. Now, he`s also the host. Is that a conflict?
DEUTSCH: No, because they`re voting -- you see all the time that people are backstage, they`ve just given an award. Apples and oranges, church and state. Has nothing to do with it.
BEHAR: It`s interesting that Julianne Moore is not nominated for "The Kids Are All Right" but Annette Bening is. I mean, they were--
DEUTSCH: I always wonder about that, because that role is literally like a two-headed role. I mean, they were wonderful, they were both -- I think it was a fantastic movie, really, really well done. And you kind of go, what is the craft that they`re looking in Annette Bening and saying that was superior acting?
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: More (inaudible) as a lesbian maybe.
DEUTSCH: I actually disagree with that.
BEHAR: You do?
DEUTSCH: Yeah.
(CROSSTALK)
DEUTSCH: Actually, what makes one more convincing than the next?
BEHAR: I don`t know, she might have--
LUSCOMBE: Might be that Julianne Moore slept with a guy. That`s a little less convincing--
BEHAR: Yes, that must be the reason. Because in the movie, she sleeps with--
(CROSSTALK)
DEUTSCH: So Annette Bening played the more male of the two in the relationship or whatever. The butch or whatever the word--
BEHAR: Right, because of the haircut?
DEUTSCH: Well, she was the dominant one in the relationship, she was the breadwinner. A more traditional male role.
(CROSSTALK)
BIRNBACH: You know what? I think there is also -- I hate to be cynical, but I think there`s also deal making. Because people bet the odds and game the Oscars, so somebody at the studio is saying, well, Julianne Moore was nominated last year and the year before and the year before.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: -- homophobia, "Brokeback Mountain" didn`t win, and everybody seemed to like that movie.
LUSCOMBE: I think it`s more that Oscars are like political campaigns. It`s not always the best guy or the best girl who gets to be your senator. It`s the one who ran the best campaign.
(CROSSTALK)
LUSCOMBE: So Annette Bening`s campaign is going to be better Julianne Moore`s. In fact, I`m a huge fan of that because Jackie Weaver, the person who pushed out Julianne Moore from that category, an Australian actress, a tiny film that nobody has seen, she`s terrifying. She`s terrifying in that movie. She plays a mother.
BEHAR: I don`t think she`s going to win. We don`t like--
(CROSSTALK)
LUSCOMBE: Of course she`s not going to win, but--
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: We like American--
(CROSSTALK)
LUSCOMBE: It was four foreigners and Marisa Tomei for "My Cousin Vinny" and Marisa Tomei won.
(CROSSTALK)
DEUTSCH: -- the Anne Hathaway choice was very kind of odd.
(CROSSTALK)
DEUTSCH: Anne Hathaway is lovely but nothing--
BEHAR: They are both extremely talented performers.
DEUTSCH: I know but--
(CROSSTALK)
DEUTSCH: They don`t seem to have like (inaudible) those are two (inaudible) guys, you know what I mean, I was -- it was a strange choice.
BEHAR: OK, now this next story is a little different from what we`ve been talking about. Pastor Joel Osteen appeared on Piers Morgan`s show, and said that even though he does not judge, he thinks homosexuality is a sin. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PIERS MORGAN, CNN ANCHOR: Is homosexuality a sin, in your eyes?
JOEL OSTEEN: Yes. I`ve always believed, Piers, the scripture shows that it`s a sin. But you know, I`m not one of those that are out there to bash homosexuals and tell them that they are terrible people and all that. I mean, there are other sins in the Bible too, and I think sometimes the church, I don`t mean this critically, but we focus on one issue or two issues, and there`s plenty of other ones. So I don`t believe homosexuality is God`s best for a person`s life.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: No, what`s best for a person`s life is to make millions of dollars talking about this -- about this in that nasty way that these people who are so religious do. I don`t like it.
BIRNBACH: Megachurches always scare me. Because don`t they have a foam "we`re number one" thumbs and you know?
BEHAR: I don`t know, you watch this?
BIRNBACH: No, but they look like football stadiums or basketball stadiums. They don`t look like real spiritual places.
DEUTSCH: I just wonder how some of these guys like Mr. Osteen have kind of a clear voice to God to understand what`s right and what`s wrong. You know, it`s interesting, I want to know. He has been told what choices people should make in life, what`s right and what`s wrong.
BEHAR: He uses the scriptures, Donny.
(CROSSTALK)
DEUTSCH: I`m just curious -- I just never understand that. Because as far as I`m concerned, people should be able to do what they want.
(CROSSTALK)
DEUTSCH: What do I know.
BEHAR: According to these people, it`s a sin. People who believe in the scriptures, it`s a sin. But you know, in the scriptures, it`s also a sin to eat shellfish, so if you`re gay and you like lobster, you`re really screwed.
(LAUGHTER)
DEUTSCH: Religion is religion. And I believe in whatever faith you follow, but you know, at the same token, he really hedged his bet by kind of like backing off a little bit. But you know, there are some things -- I believe God somehow loves all of us and would not make a choice of what`s right or what`s wrong with people. So that`s a religion I -- I`m a Jew, but that`s what I would prescribe to him (ph).
LUSCOMBE: But I always find myself defending people of faith in this- -
DEUTSCH: Good.
BEHAR: Because we need that here. Go ahead.
LUSCOMBE: Osteen says we`re not attacking the person. You know, we believe according to the scriptures that we read, and you know, you expect religious people to adhere to their scriptures, that this is not the best way to leave. You know, Piers Morgan then goes on to say, well, you know, and Osteen says it`s like being an addict. It`s not the best way. And Piers Morgan says, but it`s not like being an addict. Nobody wakes up in the morning and says, I want to be a homosexual. But then again, nobody wakes up in the morning and says I want to be an addict.
(CROSSTALK)
DEUTSCH: -- you`re deciding what -- who is to decide what the best way to live and not live in life is? Who is he to make that statement?
LUSCOMBE: They`re quoting the scripture. It`s not like -- he keeps saying, it`s not me, I`m quoting what my scripture says.
BEHAR: But the only reason nobody wants to -- he said -- the only reason there`s any validity to what he says is because people like him say it is a sin. Otherwise, it would be fabulous to be a homosexual.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: I mean, really, it`s because of that. You get my point?
DEUTSCH: (inaudible) a jerky person, and there are jerky straight people and jerky gay people. And there are nice straight people and nice gay people. I happen to be just a nice--
BEHAR: Bisexual.
DEUTSCH: Bisexual, there, I said it. I`m coming clean before "Love Calling" comes out. The scoop is here.
BEHAR: One more story.
DEUTSCH: You didn`t jump on that? I just broke huge news!
BEHAR: Because I want to get to this next story.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: OK, Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi. Remember him? You know, this guy is really in trouble. He flipped out during a call on a live TV show criticizing the despicable and repugnant coverage of this sex scandal that`s threatening to end his political career. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SILVIO BERLUSCONI (THROUGH TRANSLATOR): But I`m watching a disgusting transmission, with a host who is despicable, contemptible, repugnant.
LERNER (through translator): OK, you`ve already insulted us enough. Why don`t you go in front of the magistrates instead of delivering insults?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DEUTSCH: That would not work in English. It would not work in English. You need to be Italian.
(CROSSTALK)
LUSCOMBE: Berlusconi is the best world leader ever.
BEHAR: Because?
LUSCOMBE: Because he calls into TV shows to tell them that they`re repulsive. Can you imagine getting a call from Barry Obama? Hi, it`s Barry on the line, Joy.
(CROSSTALK)
DEUTSCH: I mean, it`s very funny what he did, but I, if I were advising President Obama, I would not have him calling into O`Reilly or any other show.
BEHAR: But this guy has the worst sex scandal going on with a young, underaged girl.
(CROSSTALK)
DEUTSCH: Oh, she`s underage--
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: This underage girl, OK? Do you think that any politician in this country would survive five minutes with that scandal?
BIRNBACH: No, they don`t. They don`t. I mean, Monica Lewinsky was older than 18.
DEUTSCH: No, the underage -- the underage--
(CROSSTALK)
DEUTSCH: No, I`m saying the underage is what changes the math a lot.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Also, they crucified Bill--
(CROSSTALK)
DEUTSCH: He stayed in office. He survived.
(CROSSTALK)
DEUTSCH: If she was underage, trust me, you`re not going to survive.
BIRNBACH: He owns the newspapers, he owns the TV stations, Berlusconi.
BEHAR: That`s right.
BIRNBACH: So he has quite a --
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Do you know that the "Jersey Shore," wait a second, the "Jersey Shore" -- that`s what he`s probably yelling about. Don`t bring them here!
(LAUGHTER)
DEUTSCH: Sweet, sweet baby, "Jersey Shore" --
BEHAR: All right, that was fun. Thank you, everyone, very much. Donny, you stay here because I`m going to talk to you in the next segment.
DEUTSCH: About what?
BEHAR: About you. Only you, all about you.
(CROSSTALK)
DEUTSCH: I want to talk about --
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: He`s a TV personality, he`s an advertising executive, and the chairman of Deutsch Inc. Apparently, a love guru. On his new Bravo show, "Love Calling," he`ll answer women`s most burning questions about sex, love and relationships. Back with me now is the charming, the most charming and delightful, Donny Deutsch. Now, what makes you an expert on relationships, Donny? You`re divorced.
DEUTSCH: Yes, divorced twice.
BEHAR: And didn`t you have some other issue with a girlfriend?
DEUTSCH: I had a lot of girlfriends. The interesting thing is, when girls have problems with guys, what do they do? They go to other girls. Wrong. Go to a guy who`s been married twice, tons of relationships, loves women, most of my business partners have been women. Have three daughters. Have made my share of mistakes. So I`m going to give you the honest truth. So it`s really -- every woman I think could use either a best friend guy, or a guy who`s an older brother. So it`s actually a really smart show with really good advice.
BEHAR: So, you`re giving a lot of male secrets away.
DEUTSCH: Yes. I`m going to be thrown out of the clubhouse, but it`s really -- and I found myself--
BEHAR: Give me a male secret.
DEUTSCH: Ask me a question.
BEHAR: All right, I have to -- here, somebody writes in, a viewer question. "My husband likes to do it in the morning, and I`m not a morning person, if you know what I mean. How do we find a middle ground?"
DEUTSCH: The afternoon! No. You really -- that`s the kind of situation where you`ve got to kind of say, once in a while, I`m going to give him what he wants. You have to be who you are, but if that`s what he likes, once in a while do it, and then you say, honey, I just don`t like it all the time. It`s just -- (inaudible). You getting a little nervous? You know, let`s compromise. There`s no brain surgery there. I mean, and that`s it.
BEHAR: What if she doesn`t feel like doing it? Should you insist?
DEUTSCH: No. First of all, you never insist. A guy can`t insist. Just like a woman can`t insist. But for instance, if your man really loves that and you really love him, the answer`s not to do it every time he wants or doesn`t want (ph), but if that means something to him, you want to show him that means something. He also has to understand that if you`re not a morning person, then it`s not going to happen every morning.
BEHAR: Right, OK. A lot of guys like it in the morning because--
DEUTSCH: I`m a morning guy.
BEHAR: -- things are working better in the morning.
DEUTSCH: We get tired at night.
BEHAR: Yeah, I know.
DEUTSCH: But that`s interesting -- that`s a point -- particularly if the man works, if a man had a bad day at work, he`s just not turned on. That`s what he`s (inaudible) happening during the day. If his boss told him he`s a jerk, he`s not feeling good about himself, so a woman should not feel rejected at night.
BEHAR: Right.
DEUTSCH: It has nothing to do with that.
BEHAR: Right.
DEUTSCH: And also, if the woman is working, but that goes into the equation. Whereas in the morning, he hasn`t been told he`s a jerk at work, he hasn`t failed in any way, and he`s feeling good about himself.
BEHAR: Right, it`s a fresh thing. Why do men like to have sex to fix arguments with women? I don`t think that works.
DEUTSCH: We don`t like to have sex to fix arguments. We just like the arguments to end.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: But men think that if you have sex after an argument, that everything is forgiven, everything`s fine.
DEUTSCH: No, we just want sex. And I also think--
BEHAR: Period.
DEUTSCH: -- sometimes we -- sometimes we can let an argument go easier, so it`s easier for us to be mad one second, and then the next second, feel intimate, where I think most women, they can have the same level of anger towards you -- but for most women, it takes longer to turn off. So understand, it`s not that your man is any less upset than you. He`s just kind of getting over it easier.
BEHAR: Is this like a new thing for you, isn`t it, to --
DEUTSCH: Well, actually, the interesting thing is, I do this in my life all the time. I`ve worked with thousands of women, and I`m -- those who can`t do, those who can teach -- can teach or whatever, inside the criminal mind. So I had this idea, we`ve been incubating it with Kathleen Hoda every Friday on the "Today Show," and it`s going to be fun. The calls are going to be live, Thursday night, 11:00. Literally, a live call-in show.
BEHAR: Once a week, that`s all.
(CROSSTALK)
DEUTSCH: Well, we`re starting this Thursday night a special, and hopefully it will go to once a week. And it`s going to be -- I think it`s going to be a really (inaudible) -- all kidding aside--
BEHAR: I`m not -- I think it`s--
(CROSSTALK)
DEUTSCH: It`s a real service. And it`s really women make the mistake of going to other women. Talk to--
BEHAR: You`re like a taller Dr. Ruth.
DEUTSCH: I`m a taller Dr. Ruth. There you go. That`s the position - - that`s the promo, air it on Bravo.
BEHAR: But Dr. Ruth is about sex. This is not--
(CROSSTALK)
DEUTSCH: This is about relationships. This is about love, and this is about hopefully just helping women navigate a little bit. I mean, I`m really going to be on a woman`s side. A lot of my guy friends are very worried, to tell you the truth, like Donny, do not do this, do not--
BEHAR: Do not give all the secrets away.
DEUTSCH: And we`re going to give -- we`re going to be really getting somewhere (ph).
BEHAR: What about gay relationships?
DEUTSCH: Guys are going to call in. Gay guys are going to call in.
BEHAR: Guys are going to call in?
DEUTSCH: Absolutely.
BEHAR: But what do you know about that?
DEUTSCH: Well, I know about relationships--
BEHAR: You said you were bisexual in the last segment.
DEUTSCH: Well, let`s also -- we`re not -- we don`t want to officially say that. We were just kibitzing as we like to say in (inaudible). It`s also just human relationships. You know what I mean? And it`s just, you know, I`ve been around gay guys my entire life.
BEHAR: On "Morning Joe," do you give Pat Buchanan sex information?
DEUTSCH: That would be kind of what we call an oxymoron, if you will. We really -- the sex talk, I stay closer to Mika on. Pat and I are more on the--
(CROSSTALK)
DEUTSCH: Something about Pat Buchanan and sex talk just ruined my show. I`ve got to get that out of my head.
BEHAR: All right, before we go, I`m running out of time. I have to ask you about a comment you made about Sarah Palin to Snooki. How are they alike? You said they are very much alike, Snooki and Sarah Palin. Let`s hear this.
DEUTSCH: I`ll tell you, they`re very similar, because the fascination -- why is the media so -- is she going to run for president? She`s an interesting, fascinating, telegenic character, and that`s what Snooki is also. That she is to -- to that world, to a literate world, someone who you never know what she`s going to say. She`s interesting to look at. She`s acerbic. And to a younger, less educated audience, Snooki is no different. So it`s not --
BEHAR: Snooki is not acerbic.
DEUTSCH: Whatever word -- she doesn`t know what acerbic means--
BEHAR: Neither is Sarah Palin.
DEUTSCH: What it means is they are telegenic media critters. And that`s what -- that`s where they are similar. Her fascination to this world is the first attractive woman in power.
BEHAR: Who do you think -- she`s the first attractive woman in power?
DEUTSCH: Woman in power.
(CROSSTALK)
DEUTSCH: We don`t know how to process it.
BEHAR: What about Eleanor Roosevelt? You forgot about her?
DEUTSCH: Other than Eleanor Roosevelt and Indira Gandhi, all right, that`s true.
BEHAR: Well, Indira, yes--
DEUTSCH: And Golda Meir.
BEHAR: But I mean, who`s smarter? Snooki or Sarah?
DEUTSCH: That`s kind of a toss-up, I guess.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: OK, Bravo`s newest live special, with Donny Deutsch, "Love Calling," airs Thursday at 11:00 p.m. on Bravo. Right?
DEUTSCH: Right.
BEHAR: We`ll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: There`s been a lot of criticism of the TSA`s patdowns, but are they illegal? Former Minnesota Governor Jesse Ventura thinks so, and he`s suing the TSA and the Department of Homeland Security. But isn`t tighter security necessary? Look what happened in Moscow yesterday. Here with me now is Frances Townsend, former homeland security adviser and CNN national security contributor. She is currently a member of the Department of Homeland Security external advisory board.
Thanks for coming on the show. OK, so he says that the searches violate his rights. Do you think that his lawsuit has any legs?
FRANCES FRAGOS TOWNSEND, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CONTRIBUTOR: I don`t. I mean, look, let`s be honest. You know, I understand his concern, but the answer is if the governor has intelligence to suggest that somebody is going to put a bomb in their underwear or a bomb in a computer cartridge, I want to make sure they`re searching for it. And while it offends him, I`m more offended at the possibility of being blown up on an airplane.
BEHAR: Well, to be fair to him, he had a hip replacement and he can`t go through the, you know, the, what do you call it, metal detector.
TOWNSEND: Right.
BEHAR: That`s it. But he also says he should be exempted because he`s a frequent traveler. Maybe he could be on a list, like a lot of Americans, like me. They always pat down -- you know, everybody, people that we know, Barbara Walters gets patted down. I mean, they know who we are.
TOWNSEND: Right.
BEHAR: Can`t we be on a fly list?
TOWNSEND: There`s actually a process in the Department of Homeland Security, Transportation Security Agency, where you can register basically, that says and get a note, sort of a doctor`s note, but you basically preclear. So they know you have a hip replacement, so if you go through a metal detector and something else and set it off, and you show this, they understand why that happens.
BEHAR: Right.
TOWNSEND: And there`s lots of people in that situation. That`s why they have that process.
BEHAR: OK, let`s talk about security at the airport for a second, because the Moscow suicide bomber detonated his bomb, I think there were a couple of them, right? And it was in the luggage area.
TOWNSEND: That`s right.
BEHAR: Now, there`s no security in the luggage area at JFK or at a lot of airports, any airports actually. And also in the check-in area, when you go to the airport, there is no security there. Shouldn`t they tighten security there? Why do they think that only on the plane is the thing going to happen?
TOWNSEND: Well, there have been individuals in airports who have been trained in behavioral security, that is to look for people behaving suspiciously. That`s especially true in the ticketing area. We know from officials at El Al, the Israeli airline, and we`ve learned a lot from their methods.
The arrivals area is very difficult, of course, because you can enter from the curbside to go up to meet loved ones, you can go to get luggage, and there is not a lot of security there at all. I think TSA now is going to have to look at both increasing the presence of officers who can look for suspicious people, but also look at dogs. The single most effective technique at detecting explosives traces, you know, particles, are bomb sniffing dogs.
BEHAR: Well, that`s great to do. But let me ask you something. Like at Ben-Gurion Airport, there is no metal detector to walk into the check-in area?
TOWNSEND: That`s right.
BEHAR: There is none.
TOWNSEND: There is none.
BEHAR: So they`re strictly using I would presume some kind of profiling and the dogs?
TOWNSEND: Yes. They`re using profiling, dogs, and you go through basically an exit interview when you leave Israel. I mean, it`s a pretty extensive -- and they look at where you`ve been, who you`ve been visiting. It`s a whole series of criteria, in which they -- and they do a very thorough search of your luggage before you check it in.
BEHAR: Right. Why do you suppose terrorists like to strike at airports and airplanes? What is that?
TOWNSEND: You know, Joy, they`ve been obsessed with aviation, mostly because you can get lots of casualties in a very confined space, and it`s the picture.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: It`s spectacular.
TOWNSEND: It`s spectacular. You get the picture around the world. It`s good for fund-raising, recruiting, and general inspiration of others.
BEHAR: Before I go, is there any evidence that these patdowns actually prevent terrorism or that they`re working in any way?
TOWNSEND: Here`s what they do, they`re random. You never quite know. A terrorist can`t be sure when they go through whether or not they`re going to get patted down. And what they`re looking for -- patdown techniques have changed after the Chechen women on the Russian airliners blew up two planes, we went to a different kind of patdown for women for a period of time. It changes. And they can`t be sure. And keeping them off guard.
BEHAR: Keeps them off kilter.
TOWNSEND: Exactly right.
BEHAR: That`s good. OK, thanks very much. And thank you for watching. Good night, everybody.
END
