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Jane Velez-Mitchell
Cops: Mom Murdered Her Teens; Renewed Hope of Finding Kyron?
Aired January 31, 2011 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST (voice-over): Tonight, an unthinkable horror. Cops say a woman sick of her children talking back to her points a gun to their heads and pulls the trigger. Police believe the 16-year-old girl and her 13-year-old brother never saw their point-blank-range execution coming. Were there red flags? We`ll dive deep into this mom`s disturbing past.
And the search for adorable little Kyron Horman reignites. Dozens of search-and-rescue workers scouring two key areas. What`s up with step-mom Terri Horman? And have new clues finally been uncovered?
Then new uproar over the Charlie Sheen debacle. As the actor starts his first full week of rehab, a porn claims he asked her to baby sit his kids as part of a plan to create a porn star mansion.
Plus, you won`t believe what a "Real Housewife of Beverly Hills" star is saying about the morning Charlie was rushed to the hospital. Tonight, addict nation out of control. We`ll go inside the mind of an addict.
ISSUES starts now.
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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He made her life happy.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They`ll both be missed a lot. We love them so much.
It`s just sad that his mom did this to him and his sister, because he didn`t deserve it. He was the sweetest kid ever.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I just need to show respect and show that I really did care about them.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight, unimaginable horror and outrage as cops say a mother turns on her two teenage children, executing them at point-blank range. Cops say the 50-year-old mother, Julie Schenecker, confessed to shooting her 13-year-old son in the head twice while they were driving to soccer practice. She then doubled back to the family home, where cops say she shoots her 16-year-old daughter in the back of the head while the girl is studying at the computer?
This mother allegedly used a gun she bought five days before. The kids apparently, quote, "never saw it coming." Who would?
Cops say they found Julie, the mom, covered in blood when they arrested her. Now take a look at this. Here she is, visibly trembling, as she`s being put into the patrol car.
Police discovered the bodies after being tipped off by this woman, the demented mother`s own mother, who called cops at 7:40 Friday night, worried she hadn`t heard from her daughter, who was depressed and had been complaining about the kids.
You know what her complaint was? Julie allegedly murdered her teenagers because they, quote, "talked back and were mouthy and she was going to take care of that." That`s what cops say Julie wrote in a note detailing plans to kill them and then herself. Hmm. Odd how they always say they`re going to kill themselves and then somehow, the suicide, well, it just doesn`t quite happen. Can you say cowardice?
What about the children`s father? This is unbelievable. He`s a colonel in the U.S. Army, stuck in the Middle East when he finds out his children have been gunned down by his own wife.
I want to hear from you on this extremely disturbing story. Call me: 1-877-JVM-SAYS, 1-877-586-7297.
Straight out to Steve Summers from News Talk 820, WWBA in Tampa.
Steve, dare we ask, what is the very latest?
STEVE SUMMERS, REPORTER, WWBA: Well, the latest today was, Jane, that this woman, Julie Schenecker, went to court and was denied bond. Big surprise there. Those are always -- that`s always the case when we have a murder situation, particularly something as heinous as this. So the judge has denied bond for her.
She is back in her jail cell here at the Hillsborough County Jail tonight. And what is next for her, presumably, will be all kinds of hearings having to do with her mental state and that sort of thing. That has not come out just yet, but tonight she`s back in jail.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: This unthinkable violence didn`t just happen out of the blue. Cops say Julie and her daughter had more than one physical confrontation.
Back in November, cops conducted a child abuse investigation after Julie allegedly hit her daughter Calyx. Look at that beautiful girl over there. Dead tonight.
During an argument, here`s what Calyx told the cops back in November. That in the car, her mom, quote, "hit her with an open hand" on her face for approximately 30 seconds. But she wasn`t sure how long or how many times. Again, at the gate to the neighborhood, her mom hit her one to three more times. And yet again, parked in the driveway, her mom tried to hit her again.
Calyx also said that a month before that, her mom, quote, "hit her in the mouth in the car for something she said, and it caused her mouth to bleed."
Cops claim to -- well, Julie is claiming to cops, or did, that Calyx had been in counseling. The counseling center wouldn`t comment on that story.
So here`s my question, Michael Brooks. Cops did not arrest, at that time, because they didn`t find any bruises on the daughter. But couldn`t somebody have scheduled a follow-up visit by social workers to see what the heck was going on in this family that was percolating with this woman, getting to the point where she`s apparently confessed to gunning down her two kids?
MICHAEL BROOKS, HLN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, apparently, Jane, the 16-year-old did call law enforcement. They responded. There are no injuries. And apparently in Florida you are allowed to discipline your children. You`re allowed to use corporal punishment as long as there are no injuries. They found out -- they said there were no injuries. They didn`t believe there was any criminality involved.
On the social side, on the social worker side of things, we don`t know. They will not comment to say did DFACS (ph) come out there and do any follow up? We don`t know that.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. I`ve just got to wonder if somehow somebody couldn`t have seen something. People don`t, normally, get completely violent like this, 0 to 60.
Now, two days after cops went to the family home on that alleged child abuse call, the mom was involved in a car wreck. Her Mercedes hit a landscaping truck. Cops say, at the time, Julie seemed impaired. Her pupils were dilated. Her speech was, quote, "mush mouth." Julie was hurt and went to the hospital.
But get this, Michael Cardoza, criminal defense attorney, former prosecutor. At that time, this mother was not tested for drugs or booze at the scene or at the hospital, so she wasn`t charged with anything but driving carelessly, when, in fact, she could have had a drug or alcohol problem.
MICHAEL CARDOZA, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, she may well have. At the scene of that accident, apparently, they took her off to the hospital. The police didn`t intoxilyze her at the scene. The police go to the hospital, but by the time they get there, she`s gone so they`re not able to test her.
I`m not sure if they had, though, Jane, let`s say she`s under the influence of drugs. Is that a precursor to what she did here? Would that have tipped the police off? Of course not.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: No, but let me say this, Wendy Murphy. There was also some report that she had some sort of undisclosed ailment. And the only thing I could think of -- nothing -- nothing justifies or nothing explains this. But the only thing that comes in my mind is maybe she was on some crazy prescription drugs, because she was depressed and had some sort of physical ailment.
And we all know that prescription drug abuse is a huge problem in this country. And when people are high on prescription pills, they sometimes do the unimaginable -- Wendy.
WENDY MURPHY, FORMER PROSECUTOR: And not only that. You know, every once in a while you read a news story that connects some of those drugs to both suicide and homicide...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Right.
MURPHY: ... increased risks.
You know, what bothers me. You said -- when she went from 0 to 60, that to me is why this case is so hard to understand. You tend to see an escalation in violence, especially between women. You know, men are a little bit more explosive. Women tend to escalate predictably, and you can tell when you`re about to get to this point. You couldn`t here for some crazy reason.
I think two of the biggest red flags are not only some talk of suicidality but also this history of abuse and the mixture of potential drugs. You put those three things together, and you have a potential for this kind of disaster.
But I`ll tell you, I can`t think of another case like this, Jane. It is so out of left field that a mom is like this. And I`ve got teenagers. I know what it feels like to have a mouthy kid. But if every mother with a mouthy kid took these steps, we`d have a lot of dead kids. You know, it just doesn`t happen. It doesn`t make sense.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, here`s my big issue. Was this mom, Julie Schenecker, was spiraling toward violence?
The signs, well, first the child abuse claim by Julie`s daughter in early November. Then the car wreck two days later, and she seems wobbly. Maybe she`s on drugs, but they fail to test her.
Then five days before the murders, cops say Julie buys a .38 caliber pistol, the one she allegedly used to gun her children down. Then that pseudo suicide note, where she said the kids are mouthing off, and she`s going to take care of it.
Dr. Cheryl Arutt, forensic psychologist, look at this woman. When you see her, she looks completely out of her mind. Not to say she doesn`t know right from wrong, but she`s -- she looks completely insane.
CHERYL ARUTT, FORENSIC PSYCHOLOGIST: Yes, there -- you`re pointing to two of the issues. One would be competency to stand trial, knowing right from wrong. The other is whether she was sane at the time and knew right from wrong at the time that she committed the crime.
For someone to do something like this, she would need to either be severely, severely mentally ill or have something happen that changed her mental status really dramatically.
And, given how her children had been thriving until very recently, it looks to me like things just went really dramatically downhill, kind of recently. And I`m really thinking that this is substance related. Either prescription or otherwise.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I agree! Take a look at this woman -- look...
ARUTT: You know, the shaking...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I understand -- yes, let`s take a look at the woman is shaking. There, look. Look at her, shaking, shaking, shaking, shaking. Now, what is that? Nerves or is that, like, some kind of withdrawal from some kind of medication? Look at that. Look at that! That -- that`s not regular shaking. That`s like somebody who is experiencing withdrawal from something, Dr. Arutt.
ARUTT: Well, they -- they did take her to a hospital for three days to treat her for an undisclosed medical condition. It`s very possible that that was a detox before they put her in jail.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Unbelievable.
ARUTT: I don`t know, but -- but I`m wondering about it.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: We`re just getting started. The phones, Brenda, Michigan, we`re going to get you on the other side. Everybody, hang tight. We want to hear from you on these stories tonight: 1-877-JVM-SAYS.
Meantime, Charlie Sheen`s in rehab, but there`s a huge catch. You will not believe the latest twist. Porn stars, babysitters, enablers. We`ve got so many details from the day Charlie was raced to the hospital. We`re going to tell you all about it.
And much more on this unimaginable murder of two teenage kids by their own mother, allegedly.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He made her life happy.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They`ll both be missed a lot. We love them so much.
It`s just sad that his mom did this to him and his sister, because he didn`t deserve it. He was the sweetest kid ever.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I just need to show respect and show that I really did care about them.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
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(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It hits home. It really, really does. Because, you know, you have kids, and I mean, I couldn`t even imagine what was going through her head, what`s going through anybody`s head. It`s just -- it`s really, really sad.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: A mother takes a .38 caliber pistol to her own teenage children`s head and shoots them dead because they were mouthing off to her. That`s what cops say 50-year-old Julie Schenecker did to her 13- year-old son and her 16-year-old daughter, Calyx. Will this allegedly murderous mother face the death penalty?
Brenda, Michigan, your question or thought? Brenda?
CALLER: Yes, I`m here.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Your question or thought, ma`am?
CALLER: yes. I just want to know if maybe she`s on some kind of drugs or what -- and my husband wants to know if she`s being treated for PTSD. He said a lot of the military spouses are having to be treated for that right now?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh, that`s an excellent point!
Steve Summers, do you know anything about the fact that her husband was off in the Middle East, he`s a colonel in the army, and she`s by herself there with the kids. She has this car accident where she appears out of it. You saw her like this on the perp walk. Could she have been suffering posttraumatic stress disorder related to her husband`s deployment?
SUMMERS: Well, I suppose that`s entirely a possibility. I mean, here`s a woman who`s been left at age 50 to deal with the things that you have to deal with when you`re -- when you have two teenagers in the house and the issues that they have. Meantime, Dad is serving his country overseas in the Middle East.
What I do know is that apparently the dynamic of this family was -- is that from time to time, in fact, oftentimes, there would be these overseas telephone calls. And the mother would have the father, his first name, Parker, serving out of Centcom here in Tampa, would have him officiate these arguments between her and the two children, particularly the Young lady.
So here you have a situation where, potentially, the mom wasn`t feeling all that confident about her ability to sort of impose whatever sort of rule she needed to over the kids in the house, because Dad is not there to help with that very difficult situation anyway. And so you have this sort of long-distance refereeing that he has to do when he`s not there to really know the situation.
And of course, they`re talking back to her on a regular basis. I guess it`s just the situation where you don`t have two parents there, and - - and one is left to sort of be Mom and Dad, which is, of course, a very difficult thing to do.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Absolutely. And Julie had these multiple stressors in her life. She had two, quote/unquote, "mouthy teenagers." And Julie told police that the daughter had called her disgusting and said, "You`re not my parent," to her. And again, the husband`s off in the military.
But I`ve got to say, on the other hand, Michael Cardoza, these are good kids. These are not kids who are in trouble with a law, in a juvenile delinquency situation. The boy was active in soccer. The girl was in a pre-international baccalaureate program. She ran cross-country and started a Harry Potter fan club. Doesn`t sound like demonic children to me. In fact, when she was executed by her own mother, she was on the computer doing her homework!
CARDOZA: Exactly. I mean, doesn`t "teenager" and "mouthy," isn`t that redundant? Teenagers are growing up. They`re going to talk back to their parents. In this case, it was apparently a little more than a mom could handle but should have been able to handle.
This is really, really a case of sadness. A defense attorney coming into this case, they`re going to have one objective: to save her life. Because I can almost guarantee the Florida attorney`s office is going to file the death penalty, unless they negotiate it out right away and plead her to "life without possibility" in this case. There`s not much of a defense to this.
And I also guarantee you that the defense attorney or the defense team will want every frame of the tape where she`s led to the car and is shaking, because that will be some indicator that she is on some sort of drug and it will affect her thinking.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wendy...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can we...
(CROSSTALK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hold on a second.
CARDOZA: That is not insanity.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: It`s not. Wendy Murphy.
BROOKS: No.
MURPHY: Wah, wah, wah, wah. You know, I`m sick of these excuses. And we`ve had this discussion so many times. Yes, there may be some underlying causes and we should talk about them, but for now, since she`s already done her bad deed, let`s stop making sexist excuses for her.
If a guy did this, are you kidding me? A guy even back from Iraq with real PTSD, we wouldn`t feel this whiney about him. Can we at least be gender neutral? You execute your kids, I don`t care what your reasons are that you say, "Oh, they were mouthy. I`m having a drug problem."
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wendy -- Wendy, yes or no, she`ll go for the insanity defense? Yes or no, Wendy?
MURPHY: Good luck.
BROOKS: Good luck with that one.
MURPHY: Are you kidding?
BROOKS: No.
MURPHY: Forget it.
BROOKS: The notes, Jane -- the notes, Jane, they`re going to go back. They`re going to look at the surveillance from the gun store. What was her interaction with the guy she bought the gun from? All this coming in. Insanity defense? Not happening.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right.
CARDOZA: There is no insanity defense.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Fantastic panel, we`ll stay on top of this very controversial story. Nancy Grace will have much more on this story at 8 Eastern, and at 9:00, catch "Nancy Grace: America`s Missing." Find 50 people in 50 days right here on HLN.
Charlie Sheen, a rehab shocker you won`t believe.
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MARY LINDSTRAND, MULTNOMAH COUNTY, OREGON, SHERIFF`S SPOKESWOMAN: There`s a specific reason they`re up here. As you know, I can`t go into the details and it is part of the ongoing investigation. And we just need to get some -- Kyron home.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight, new information sends searchers and cadaver dogs into the Portland woods in search of Kyron Horman. Little Kyron vanished nearly eight months ago. So what`s the new information that sparked this new search?
Some 50 searchers and dogs combed through the land not far from Kyron`s school and home. They were particularly interested in areas accessible by car.
Kyron disappeared from his Portland school last June 4. The last known person to see him, step-mom Terri Horman, who despite massive scrutiny and suspicion, has not been named a suspect.
Now, Kyron`s mom, Desiree Young, says she has been waiting for this search to happen for a long time. So what did they find, if anything?
Straight out to Victoria Taft, host of the wonderful "Victoria Taft Show" on KTAM 860.
Victoria, great to see you. Cops seem to be moving forward and then nothing for months. And now suddenly out of nowhere, this search. What`s going on here?
VICTORIA TAFT, RADIO SHOW HOST: KTAM: Well, I wish we all knew, Jane. Thanks very much for having me back on. It`s great to see you.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes.
TAFT: But here`s the thing. We are -- we`re happening upon a February 1 deadline that the sheriff`s department set upon itself to do something to "shake loose" -- their words -- in the Kyron Horman case. That`s tomorrow.
And over the weekend, we had searchers, cadaver dogs. And the thing that I believe is of great value here, is that this is the first time a searcher has allowed as, they`re looking for someone who`s deceased.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, despite no criminal charges, Kyron`s step-mom, of course, Terri Horman, quickly fell under public scrutiny. She was the last person to see Kyron. And her skeletons, like an alleged drinking problem, came out of the closet.
Now, here`s estranged husband, Kaine, on that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KAINE HORMAN, FATHER OF KYRON: The alcoholism was something that I had some concerns about, but I didn`t have a -- I didn`t have enough information at the time to be able to say, hey, this is what this problem is.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Kyron`s dad, Kaine, and step-mom, Terri, are in the middle of a nasty divorce. What have we heard about Terri lately? Has she been able to see that young daughter that she had with Kaine that he wanted to keep from her?
TAFT: They`ve -- I believe that they let that go. I think she thought that that was probably not going to do her any good. So Kiara is now with her father full-time and has always been since they separated.
We are then going to be back in court, as I understand it, in March, hen they`ve kicked that divorce can down the road. Terri`s attorney has done her a very good job, if you`re an attorney, to keep her out of the public eye, to make sure that there`s no court proceeding wherein we might get another look at what`s going on in the life of Terri Horman and be able to probe further into anything else she might know about the disappearance of Kyron, her stepson.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Whatever happened to the grand jury? What happened to the grand jury that everybody was so excited about?
TAFT: It`s -- it`s off and on, and off and on. And frankly, I don`t know if they`re convening currently right now.
But I do know that it was interesting to hear that Kyron`s mother, his real mom, birth mom, had said that she believed that there was some reason why they were going into the woods and looking for Kyron this last weekend. And that, you know, she was well aware of it. Now, what is that? I mean, we would all like to know.
And Mary Lindstrand, the woman that we saw from the Multnomah County Sheriff`s Department, was saying, "We can`t tell you." Well, I sure wish someone would say something. Because you`ve got cadaver dogs. You`ve got searchers, 50 of them, and they`re all looking around in an area. And remember now, Jane, there was...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Victoria Taft, we`ve got to leave it right there.
TAFT: OK.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: But we won`t forget (ph) this case. Great to see you.
Charlie Sheen...
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: New uproar over the Charlie Sheen debacle. As the actor starts his first full week of rehab, a porn star claims he asked her to baby sit his kids as part of a plan to create a porn star mansion.
Plus, you won`t believe what a "Real Housewives of Beverly Hills" star was saying about the morning Charlie was rushed to the hospital. Tonight, addict nation out of control. We`ll go inside the mind of an addict.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. DREW PINSKY, ADDICTION SPECIALIST: It looks like he really embraced treatment for a while. He was deeply involved in sobriety and then just kind of blew it off. And ever since then, he`s been slipping and sliding, in one degree or another, heading towards what we`re seeing right now.
And the really sad part about this is you are going to see -- you`re definitely going to see somebody die here if he doesn`t get serious about his treatment.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight, breaking news. Three days after Charlie Sheen announces he`s checking into rehab -- are you sitting down -- TMZ reports he is doing rehab at home, the very place that he was hanging out with all those porn stars and partying for three days. Home is where the heart is.
Charlie`s reps will not confirm or deny the home rehab claim, but let me tell you something. Home rehab is a joke. It`s not how it works. Charlie`s life is spinning out of control as production shuts down on Sheen`s hit show, "Two and a Half Men". New details emerge about how Sheen ended up strapped to a stretcher and raced to the hospital. A porn star describes a nonstop party at Charlie`s place and claims the actor used large amounts of cocaine that he allegedly spread out on to the bathroom counter.
Here is Kasey Jordan, the porn star Sheen allegedly hired to hang out with him. She cashed fat check -- there`s mother there she`s clutching in front of the cameras -- she says she got from the actor. She says also Charlie offered her another job to baby sit his kids.
Here she is on ABC`s "Good Morning America."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KASEY JORDAN, ADULT FILM STAR: I think maybe the baby sitting part was important to him so that maybe when he was, you know, doing his drinking, maybe that he didn`t have to have his kids see him be like that and then have one of us girls watch them.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Ok. We`re just getting started. TMZ also reporting that Sheen was dancing naked when he started seeing hernia-related stomach pains.
Guests at Charlie`s wild all-night party say Charlie was imitating this scene, you know, the famous Tom Cruise dancing scene in the movie "Risky Business". But Charlie, according to these folks, didn`t have any clothing on.
Tonight, how did this Hollywood A-lister unravel? We`re going inside Charlie`s inner battle with blended cross addictions. Does Charlie have issues with sex, drugs, booze, anger, and porn? In my new book "Addict Nation: An Intervention for America", it comes out tomorrow, I`ve got to say Charlie Sheen`s problems dovetail with at least five chapters. Will Teflon Charlie ever make sobriety stick? Does he even want to?
Straight out to Dylan Howard, senior executive editor of RadarOnline; I understand, Dylan, that Charlie texted you on Friday?
DYLAN HOWARD, SENIOR EXECUTIVE EDITOR, RADARONLINE: Jane, he did. And the contents of this text message is startling, given the fast-breaking developments you mentioned at the start of the segment.
Charlie said to me when asked how he was, "I`m fine. People don`t seem to get it," he said. "Guy can`t have a great time and do his job also?" He signed off the text message with a message for his haters. He said, quote, "bunch of turds", end quote.
Now RadarOnline is reporting that Charlie remains at his Los Angeles home this afternoon because he won`t agree to go to rehab.
Now, there`s a big battle brewing here. In one corner, you have his father, Martin Sheen, the actor from with "The West Wing". And then in the other corner, you have Charlie defiant, refusing to go to rehab, despite the pleas of his father, family, and friends.
That`s why Charlie`s still staying at home. And interestingly enough, his reps might say he`s in rehab, but when you`re at home, you`re not. And that`s the big difference here.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: You`re not. It`s bogus.
HOWARD: It`s a PR battle that they`re trying to spin.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let me tell you something. His attorney says, "Charlie is currently seeking medical attention that he needs and has the full support of his legal team, his agents, and his employers at CBS. And it`s a shame that opportunistic women are trying to take advantage of him."
But here`s my point, Danny Bonaduce. If it`s true that he`s at home, then his rep lied when he said Charlie Sheen has voluntarily entered an undisclosed rehabilitation center today. That`s what they said last week. That`s not true if he`s at home. That`s not a rehabilitation center, never will be.
DANNY BONADUCE, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Wait a minute. Jane, are you trying to tell me that it`s a plausible theory that a movie star`s representation lied to me? I, for one, am shocked. Isn`t that their job?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`m shocked.
BONADUCE: And let me just say this.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Round up the usual suspects.
(CROSSTALK)
BONADUCE: I just want-- there`s gambling going on here. I just won $100. I just said on my radio show this morning, Charlie Sheen is not going to rehab for 90 days and this is the first time hearing that I`ve already won the money, because you and I disagree sometimes, but we agree sometimes as well.
We both agree that you don`t stop until you hit rock bottom. Where does Charlie Sheen hit rock bottom in this? I know the people he unemployed, the 300 --
(CROSSTALK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: When you suggest that a porn star babysit your kids while you set up a porn star mansion. And let me bring in Duncan Roy --
BONADUCE: That would be rock bottom for you and I.
DUNCAN ROY, VH1`S "SEX REHAB WITH DR. DREW": Hey, Jane.
BONADUCE: If he believes that he doesn`t need to go to rehab, then he`s not going. If he believes that he does need to go to rehab, he`s got $100 million and a big bag of blow saying, come on, Charlie, you don`t need to be there. Charlie Sheen is not going to seek help.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Duncan Roy, you describe yourself as having been addicted to everything and you were on VH1`S "Sex Rehab with Dr. Drew" -- well, most everything.
ROY: Did most everything.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I mean what do you make of this home rehab thing?
ROY: Well, I think it`s a crock of nonsense. But ultimately, you know, he`s facing -- he`s faced jails and institutions and now he`s facing death. That`s what you do when you`re an addict. You know, there`s no escape for him.
Since 1990, he has not been a functioning addict. You know, he`s been in jail and he`s been in the hospital and now he`s at home refusing to go to rehab. I`m assuming --
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I never knew he was in jail. I thought he never was in jail. I mean, I thought he almost overdosed of drugs --
BONADUCE: I believe he`s been arrested.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, he has, but --
ROY: Sorry?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Usually they never end up in jail.
BONADUCE: No.
ROY: The point is --
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I want to say this. After Charlie tore up The Plaza Hotel, right, about three months ago, he reportedly went out and got a sober coach to help him on the set of CBS` "Two and a Half Men". That`s a person who`s supposed to follow you around and make sure that you don`t do any of your substances that you`re addicted to.
Now, guess what. That sober coach was reportedly unable to reach him. Now TMZ is saying he`s doing rehab at home. And rehab doesn`t happen at home. It`s all about going somewhere where you don`t make the rules, where you`re not treated as special, where you become humble.
So I`ve got to say, Danny Bonaduce, we`ve all struggled with it. I`m in recovery, Duncan Roy is in recovery, you -- you can describe yourself however you want it but this is --
BONADUCE: I`m an addict in recovery, depending what day you catch me.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Do you find this scary?
(CROSSTALK)
BONADUCE: Yes. The sobriety coach thing does not work. That was proven by John Belushi better than anyone. He had a man named Bill "Super Foot" Wallace (ph) was his nickname. He was the world champion kickboxing champion. And it was his job to save John Belushi from himself. I saw them both at a club, which is now the Viper Bar, but it wasn`t called that then. I saw them both on the night john OD`d and died.
And you can slip -- you know this as a recovering addict -- if you want to slip past somebody, you can. Rehab in your own home is a failure. It`s a recipe for disaster.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: You know, this really upsets me so much, because I actually gave him the benefit of the doubt on Friday. And now I feel like a fool.
ROY: He`s an addict. Why would you give him the benefit of the doubt? You know what addicts are like. They`re liars and cheats. They`re never going to do what they say they`re going to do.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: You`re right, you`re right.
Jeanne in North Carolina, your question or thought?
(CROSSTALK)
JEANNE, NORTH CAROLINA (via telephone): Caller: you know, he`s already tried the at-home thing, by the way, and it didn`t work the first time. But my point is, I think whoever was there that weekend that knowingly enabled him should be arrested for providing drugs to an addict. Didn`t fly with Howard K. Stern, but would with these ladies, et cetera, you know his little --
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Porn stars.
JEANNE: Manager and et cetera. Because it`s well documented he`s an addict. People should start to realize that. And the lawmakers are catching up to them, making them accountable for contributing to addiction.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Everybody --
BONADUCE: Wait a minute. Let`s not make it illegal to give the junkies sex.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Stay right where you are.
Junior Beebe is accused of murdering two Michigan moms, but he told the judge he didn`t kill one of them. We`re going to give you his bizarre explanation next.
Plus, more on our addict nation and Charlie Sheen; I want to hear what you think about this latest shocker, bombshell. Give me a call, 1-877-JVM- SAYS.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He`ll be fine. That man -- he`s like -- is there a nice cockroach? I don`t mean to say he`s a cockroach in a bad way, he`s a survivor. He`ll survive anything.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: TV seduces us with glamorized violence. "Addict Nation" is a blueprint for change.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: This is an intervention.
Are we now living in the United States of addiction? Tomorrow, my book "Addict Nation" hits the stores. You can pre-order it online right now.
And in a second, we`re going to discuss Charlie Sheen`s multiple addictions.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: More shockers on Charlie Sheen`s rehab up next. But first, "Top of the Block" tonight.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JURIS KAPS, VAN BUREN COUNTY PROSECUTOR: The investigation that began with the disappearance of Amy Henslee this past Monday evening culminated this morning with the discovery of her body and also the body of a Tonya Howorth (ph).
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Junior Beebe, seen hear in a myspace.com video, accused of killing two women, but now family members say he`s claiming one woman shot the other. He reportedly claims he was having an affair with his cousin`s wife, Amy, and when his girlfriend, Tonya, saw them alone together, she shot Amy. He claims she struggled with Tonya and then shot her in self-defense.
Right. This guy as a rap sheet and a history of domestic violence, I`m not buying a single word of it. There`s a reason he`s charged with --
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: It looks like he really embraced treatment for a while, that he was deeply involved in sobriety and then just kind of blew it off. And ever since then, he has been slipping and sliding, in one degree or another, heading towards what we`re seeing right now.
And the really sad part about this is you`re definitely going to see somebody die here if he doesn`t get serious about his treatment.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight, Charlie Sheen announces he`ll go to rehab for three months, but will he actually be battling his addictions at home? TMZ reports the A-lister is doing rehab at home, which we`re all saying doesn`t happen. You don`t do rehab at home. That`s not the way it works.
The very Hollywood mansion where partying porn stars were lurking just days ago, give me a break. How is that going to work?
Plus, confessions of a porn star. Was Charlie doing cocaine during a wild night of nonstop partying? Does Charlie have multiple addictions to battle? It seems to me on top of the struggles with drugs, alcohol, and everything else, the actor also has a severe addiction to porn. A porn star or two or three seemed to be present at every Charlie Sheen scandal.
What people don`t understand is that porn is highly addictive. It`s just as addictive as taking a hit of cocaine. And porn, of course, is an industry based on the exploitation of women.
Wendy Murphy, you take on the porn angle, it`s unbelievable. This porn angle is really the most pathetic aspect of the Charlie Sheen saga in my opinion. What do you say?
WENDY MURPHY, AUTHOR, "AND JUSTICE FOR SOME": The thing that makes me feel bad for the guy is that he doesn`t realize what a tool he is for this industry. He thinks it`s all about fun and pleasure and he just wants more and he can afford it, so he should just do it. He doesn`t realize he`s being used, abused, and it`s all about money. Not him making it, other people making it by manipulating his addiction.
And I wish that guys like Charlie Sheen could understand it. I mean, boy, wouldn`t it be great if he could finally get out of his addiction and stand up for this issue?
He`s got two little girls. He thinks he`s only hurting himself. He`s got two little girls who are growing up in a culture where because of what he`s doing and what`s being done to him, in terms of exploiting his addiction, he`s placing his children`s future and health and lives at risk. And, you know, shame on him.
(CROSSTALK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And it is ultimately something misogynistic.
In my book "Addict Nation", I talk about how porn is like a drug. Once you are hooked, you need more and more and more to get that same high.
(CROSSTALK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: "A man who gets hooked on porn often finds himself needing ever more graphic imagery to `get off`."
And in my opinion, I wrote this in the book, it is not long before vanilla sex barely registers. He will need porn playing on the bedroom TV screen to enhance his experience.
Guess what, Duncan Roy, and you were in "Sex Rehab with Dr. Drew. What did Charlie Sheen do? He invited a porn star to his house and she said they sat there for three hours critiquing porn.
ROY: I spent the morning reading your book, Jane, which I really enjoyed, by the way, Jane -- a great read. But it seems to me that what you`re -- in every single chapter what you were looking at is a nation that was addicted to intensity rather than anything else.
People in this country seem addicted to more. And so that`s why in the 12-step program, we like to take some time to contemplate and meditate. And I think, you know, if there is any kind of solution for this kind of intensity that you are describing all the way through your book, that`s the way people are going to find their peace because you are looking at a nation which is not at peace with themselves.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: But Duncan, let me ask you this, you are a recovering sex addict. Is that how you could describe yourself?
ROY: I have been in recovery from drugs and alcohol for 14 years. Later on in my addiction -- later on in my recovery, I found and grew into sex addiction, which is mainly porn. And I think you`re right. You are looking for more and more graphic images. You`re looking for more and more intensity.
And I didn`t really leave the house for like two years as I was looking at things.
Now, you know, he is a very different kind of guy. I mean he has to go to work. He has to get out of the house. And, you know, I feel really sorry for him because until he stands up and says, "I am an addict and I need some help", then I really don`t understand what is going to happen with him because you are right, it is not going to work at home.
But then if he goes to Promises or if he goes to any one of those really expensive rehabs in L.A., he is in just as bad a position because they just keep you kind of intoxicated.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Not really, no. I`m sorry. I think any rehab would be better than doing it at home.
But I hear your point.
ROY: Well, I`ve been there.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Addiction to porn is something I also talk about in "Addict Nation" which comes out tomorrow. In my chapter on "Sex Addiction", this is what I write. "Porn fosters a sexist outlook that can carry over into every day interactions. The porn consumer perceives women as sexual objects and commodities to use or abuse at his whim."
Danny Bonaduce, what upsets me about this whole story is that it`s like, this porn star and that porn star and isn`t it fun and isn`t it all just ha, ha, ha when, in fact, that`s part of the sex trafficking industry. This is part of really sexual slavery of women and girls, ultimately.
BONADUCE: If in fact that is what`s happening. I do the kind of radio show where I want the other opinion on. I have porn stars on with not great concurrency. Some of them do seem to be reasonable people who are putting their money away. When I hear everybody feeling bad for Charlie Sheen -- I don`t feel bad for Charlie Sheens when he sees some actual repercussions.
I`m not seeing the repercussions. We talk about his two daughters but so far, they seem reasonably well-cared for when they`re not with Charlie.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: That is because of the ex-wives.
BONADUCE: That is because -- what is Denise Richards doing at a table with the porn star and the ex sharing dinner then he goes up and breaks up The Plaza. Let`s put some of this at the footsteps of Denise Richards then.
MURPHY: What? Let me -- are you kidding me?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Go ahead. I`ll give you the last word Wendy.
MURPHY: Come on, they ate dinner together and he`s --
VELEZ-MITCHELL: She`s trying to keep her family together.
MURPHY: God knows what`s in the room with her. That`s just a silly statement. It is also offensive to women to try to blame a woman who is trying to be a good mother with a jerk for a husband who can`t figure out his own addiction or get out of his own way.
BONADUCE: I didn`t try to blame. I said the world`s oldest cliche, it takes two to tango. What is she doing allowing him --
(CROSSTALK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Thank you fabulous panel.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Look at that. That beautiful animal crashes to the ground as it tries to escape U.S. government helicopters. Just another day in these horrific controversial wild horse roundups conducted by the Bureau of Land Management.
Tonight more evidence that the BLM doesn`t really want to find a humane solution to these roundups. I know that because a group headed by animal welfare activist Madeleine Pickens bought almost 20,000 acres of land in Nevada specifically so these beautiful creatures could roam free in an eco-sanctuary. The government reportedly has said it doesn`t want the horses to go there.
What? That`s insanity. Despite being offered a solution, they would rather round up the horses and keep them by the tens of thousands in cramped holding pens and continue these cruel inhumane tactics. Look at these holding pens. Wouldn`t they be better off in an eco-sanctuary?
Of course. And guess who is paying for these pens? Millions and millions of dollars every year, you and me, the taxpayer.
Straight out to one of my heroes, Madeleine Pickens, founder of SavingAmericasMustangs.org. Madeleine, you and your husband, who`s T. Boone Pickens, a very famous man, bought all this land to help these beautiful animals and the reports were the government turned you down.
I know you have some breaking news on that front right now that`s just coming in. Tell us what you know, Madeleine.
MADELEINE PICKENS, SAVING AMERICAS MUSTANGS.ORG: Well, I went to Washington last week and I met with Bob Abbey and he actually --
VELEZ-MITCHELL: He is the head of the BLM.
PICKENS: He is. He is in charge of all of this under Secretary Salazar. He said, actually no, they`re not going to turn down the plan. But what`s disturbing to me is that, you know, I bought 18,500 acres and with that we have another 550,000 acres of public lands that we also have.
I said to them let`s create this as an eco-sanctuary. They turned around and said guess what, we are going to gather the horses from your land. I said, why am I buying this land to create an eco-sanctuary if you are going to gather the horses.
I made a proposal, I said I`ll do anything. What you want, I`ll make corrals, you can gather them. We can treat them with PTP, a fertility drug and put them back on their home land because they know where all the water is and it`s familiar territory to them, where the feed is.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And what did they say, these government bureaucrats, Mr. Bob Abbey?
PICKENS: He said, no, it has already been decided, we are doing the gathering. You need to understand a gather cost the taxpayer $1 million. It is not the $1 million. It is the $17 million that it costs to run the program.
(CROSSTALK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: It`s millions and millions.
This next video breaks my heart, these choices being chased practically to death. Take a look at this. BLM helicopters are herding this older mare. And she just collapses on the ground. She`s probably been running for miles. She can`t move any farther. She can`t even get up.
Madeleine, why do they insist on doing this when you have said that you will take these horses and put them on your land? Ten seconds.
PICKENS: Well, here is the problem, they say one thing and then they do another because they can`t think fast enough. You know, change is very difficult for them. They have been doing it. You know, 100 years ago, we had 2 million mustangs roaming the plains. We are down to the last 30,000. I mean that`s extinction.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Thank you, Madeleine. If you want to get involved, SavingAmericasMustangs.org
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