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American Morning
Mubarak Will Step Down After Election; The Fight to Preserve Health Care Law; Groundhog Day: Punxsutawney Phil Makes the Call.; Massive Winter Storm Still Raging; Uprising in Egypt
Aired February 02, 2011 - 07:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
T.J. HOLMES, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. It is happening right now. A colossal storm stretching from Iowa to the northeast, even down through Florida. The north getting heavy snow and ice, paralyzing travel, knocking out power to thousands of people in the south. We're talking about tornadoes tearing up some communities. The storm track, the latest forecast that you need to see on this AMERICAN MORNING.
Hello to you all on this 2nd day of February. And welcome to AMERICAN MORNING. I'm T.J. Holmes.
KIRAN CHETRY, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Kiran Chetry. It's Groundhog Day today. Might be a good day to stay home in many parts of the country, we're dealing with treacherous, treacherous weather because of this winter storm. We're going to update you on that in a moment.
But first, some breaking news in Cairo right now. A very, very tense situation in Tahrir Square where there are pro-Mubarak demonstrators arriving along with anti-government protesters. Now, the two going face to face. Thousands of them there. We have our Frederik Pleitgen and Ben Wedeman in the middle of that demonstration. Things could turn ugly. We're going to check in with them in about five minutes.
HOLMES: Back here, though, we're talking about this massive winter storm. It is actually living up to the hype. They were not kidding around, the meteorologists, when they were telling you about this one. Cities are shut down across many parts of this country as this thing continues to make its way east. Here's a live look at the radar.
It is getting out of here. We're told it will take another 24 hours or so. So we're still in the thick of this thing. Some places seeing an inch of ice. Blizzard warnings are in at least six states. In Chicago this morning, shutting down lake shore drive. Also school is canceled. That may see like a no-brainer and no big deal. But in Chicago, they haven't done that in 12 years just to give you an indication of how serious it's happening there.
And 25-foot swells on Lake Michigan, two feet of snow expected in that city, which would be the most they have ever seen.
CHETRY: Police have some storm chaser video coming to us from Wisconsin where you can see what a mess it is there. As Jacqui was telling us, many, many roads shut down, snow coming in sideways, cars abandoned and buried, and people almost knocked down on the sideways because of the heavy winds. We also have some video from space to show you and get a look at how wide a swath this storm is cut basically from coast to coast right now, a huge, huge winter storm bringing all types of weather.
Let's show you O'Hare airport, right now, 11,000 flights canceled over the past two days. And more coming because of this thing isn't getting out of here in 24 hours.
HOLMES: That's what Jacqui Jeras is telling us. She's in the Extreme Weather Center for us right now. Rob Marciano is in the thick of things in Chicago. Are they going to make that two feet, Rob?
ROB MARCIANO, CNN METEOROLOGIST: It's going to be close, T.J. Officially at O'Hare we've had 17.1 inches of snow. It's obviously still coming down. We're getting a little bit of lake enhancement now. It's a lighter, fluffier snow will which will pile up more quickly.
Right now it's just at 17 inches. We've only had over 16 inches a handful of times since they've been keeping records. If you can imagine, this is a cold city. They get cold weather. They don't get a ton of snow all the time. So this is a huge event. And we're in the top five as far as snowstorms is concerned.
It's been a scary event as well. Last night we had thunder and lightning. Sirens filled the air. Emergency vehicles were all over the place. Even though people were warned to stay home, not everybody did that. Lakeshore Drive was just a mess and still is with abandoned vehicles. People were stranded in their vehicles. There were numerous calls to fire department to get out there and help people. They were trying to get warming buses in there, last minute opening public libraries and emergency shelters to help warm these people, just absolute, absolute mess.
Not to mention the amount of wind that this city has endured. Over 60-mile-an-hour winds, some damage across the city, including Wrigley Field itself. It's still a dangerous situation right now. Just up the road in Wisconsin, a weather -- several weather emergencies. They are saying just do not, do not go out on the roadways.
Here on Michigan Avenue, this is typically -- even in a big snowstorm, they got this thing cleared. To see this even covered with snow is certainly a remarkable thing even though they are trying to keep it -- trying to keep it clear. But snow banks are, obviously, a huge thing here. The winds have been piling up. So there's going to be drifts three, four, five, six feet in some areas, and that's been the dangerous part of this situation.
We expect the snow to continue for the next several hours. But blizzard warnings remain in effect until 3:00 this afternoon.
CHETRY: Yes, we were just getting used to the snow. That's old hat. Now Mother Nature wants to throw an ice storm on top of it. It was like a luge track today.
MARCIANO: New York is getting there right now. And it's such a massive storm affecting so many people, and now the northeast getting it again from New York to Boston. So just grin and bear it, guys. February 1st. I wish I could say March 1st, but we've still got another month or two of this nastiness coming at us.
HOLMES: Rob, we appreciate you being out in it this morning. I know there's no place you'd actually rather be. He likes being out in it. We'll check in with you again.
CHETRY: We have some power problems on Amtrak as well forcing the suspension of the service on the east corridor between New York and Philadelphia. Amtrak is saying trains that left were sent back to the nearest station and that they are looking for the source of the problem. Right now right in the heart of the morning commute, Amtrak, northeast corridor, suspends between New York and Philly.
Again, the storm right now is making its way. It's going to take another 24 hours possibly, but as it moves, it's leaving ice in its wake over many parts of the east coast. Boston, take a look here, a lot of snow. We just had one of our reporters out there saying they are doing their best to clear the sidewalks. As soon as they get them cleared, the snow piles right back on.
A lot of fear now this heavy, wet snow could snap some trees, bust through roofs, also bring down power lines. Logan international airport, they've had hundreds of flights cancelled there already. Also piles of snow clogging up streets in Boston as well. Some of those narrow streets. They can't get some of those plows down. You pile the stuff up on the side and there isn't enough to get down.
CHETRY: It's enough to give people a cold. Cold and flu season it is.
HOLMES: The cold weather in New York is getting to me here Jacqui Jeras in our Extreme Weather Center. Jacqui, I keep saying 24 hours, we just need to hold on here.
JACQUI JERAS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: You need to hold on until like may.
CHETRY: Thanks, Jacqui.
JERAS: A long ways of winter to go. IT'S Groundhogs day, probably not going to see his shadow because it's going to be a little cloudy out there with this system. Maybe that's a little bit of good news for you guys today. Where is the storm going and what do we still have to deal with yet? Things will be winding down across the Midwest as we head into the afternoon hours. Expect improvements here.
Detroit, you are kind of getting the dry slot now. An additional two to six inches of snow we think at the most. That's a little good news for you. This thing is moving into the northeast. While we'll see heavy accumulating snow into New England, as much as a foot for some of you, the real concern is what's going to happen here this morning and then into the afternoon as some of you big cities are going to be getting that freezing rain.
We've already been seeing it in New York City and Philadelphia. It's probably why Amtrak is having that problem because the ice is accumulating on everything. It's going to bring down tree branches and power lines. You are going to change over. Good news for you, New York City, you'll see that freezing rain change over to just rain, we think, probably by mid to late morning. So things will start to melt off just a little bit.
There's the radar picture showing you the big scope of this storm as it brings thunderstorms across parts of Florida. The severe weather threat nonexistent today. That's over and done with, so a little good news out of it.
The worst accumulating snow coming in off Lake Michigan for Milwaukee and Chicago. There you can see the heavy snow across the northeast as well.
A couple of numbers for you that we've seen so far. And we might add to a couple of these. Columbia, Missouri, 17.5. O'Hare 17, oak park 16, Four inches in St. Louis. A had a wintry mix. North of there, things are just shut down. I-70 still shut down for almost all of the state of Missouri. It's going to take a while, guys.
CHETRY: As you said, this is a state that's used to this weather, so you know how bad it must be. Thanks, Jacqui.
Now to the latest developments in Egypt where the Internet service has now just been restored. Internet and most mobile phone services were shut down by the government for the past 48 hours in an effort to stop the protests from growing.
This morning, not far from Cairo's Tahrir Square, pro-Mubarak demonstrators also took to the streets. About 500 supporters of the Egyptian president chanting "Yes to Mubarak" while calling the media and anti-government protesters traitors.
That rally was dwarfed by thousands of Egyptians jamming into the heart of Cairo this morning demanding the president step down immediately. There are still angry following Mubarak's announcement that he won't seek reelection in the fall, but he doesn't have a plan to leave office until then.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HOSNI MUBARAK, EGYPTIAN PRESIDENT (via translator): I was not intent on standing for the next elections because I have spent enough time in serving Egypt.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHETRY: Well, the reaction to Mubarak's announcement -- outrage. Demonstrators taking off their shoes and waving them in the air, the ultimate insult in the Arab world.
HOLMES: The Dow is going to do something it hasn't done in quite some time. It's going to open above 12,000. Christine Romans is joining us again. It closed above 12,000 for the first time since 2008. CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: The summer of 2008. That was before things came unraveled in the financial system and in the economy.
Good morning. Above 12,000 for the Dow, above 1,300 for the S&P 500. These are psychological levels, yes, but they show us how far we've come from those battle days a few years ago. The Dow is now up 84 percent, 84 percent from that awful, awful trough in March, 2008.
What's driving this rally? Manufacturing is doing better. Yesterday there was a report that showed manufacturing, America's factories humming at a rate we haven't seen in seven years. Companies are making money. Car sales are on the rise. That shows a consumer stepping back out there.
In fact we're saving a little bit less and spending a little bit more. That's good for the overall economy, maybe not good for your overall finances, but good for the overall economy.
What to watch is the jobs report on Friday that will give us a real good look at whether people are getting jobs. What we do so know is that people who have been newly laid off are having an easier time finding a new job. But you are still seeing these signs of activity in the economy.
Your morning market check then this morning when you look at the Dow, the NASDAQ and the S&P. Yesterday the Dow up 148, 12,040 is that level. The NASDAQ, 2751, and the S&P 500, 1,308. Oil about $90 a barrel right now. It was down a little bit yesterday.
The markets able to shrug off really these worries about Egypt. When they look at these little things, car sales, manufacturing, they are looking at the domestic economy right now.
HOLMES: Good psychological number there, 12,000. But still the high of 14,000-plus we're not at. I think the 6,500 was --
ROMANS: I'm so glad we're not at 6500. That makes me happy not to have to say the 6,000 level on the Dow.
HOLMES: And we like you happy, Christine.
(LAUGHTER)
CHETRY: Thank you.
Coming up on "American morning," Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak saying he's not going to leave just yet, not until a successor is elected in November. Did the White House do enough to get Mubarak out?
HOLMES: Also, today is Groundhog Day. Punxsutawney Phil is going to be making his forecast. This is a live picture. The ceremony is under way, but we're expecting in the next 15 minutes or so for them to pull this fury ground critter out.
CHETRY: They're singing to him. He's getting a serenade right now.
HOLMES: One of us is into this. One of us not.
(LAUGHTER)
It's 11 minutes past the hour.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is CNN breaking news.
HOLMES: We are at 13 minutes past the hour on this "American morning." We are seeing something in the streets of Cairo we haven't necessarily seen over the last week of protests. This time we're seeing clashes, not between the anti-government forces and the military or the police. We are seeing people out in the streets in support of the Mubarak government and against the Mubarak government, two different sides clashing in the streets right now.
We have our Fred Pleitgen live in Cairo right now. Fred, describe what you are seeing today.
FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, what happened here, I would say about a half an hour ago, is that these pro-Mubarak protesters that came here into the streets of Cairo started charging towards Tahrir Square. It's right behind me here.
They came charging towards that and then breached the final checkpoint that was still there and were then able to come into Tahrir Square. I'm not exactly sure if there's actually been violent clashes between the two sides. But you are absolutely right, they are clashing on the ground right now, maybe just yelling at us. We're not exactly sure as we're watching it from up here.
Let me tell you that earlier this morning, I would say at this point, 4,000 to 5,000 pro-Mubarak protesters came here to downtown Cairo and they are still coming in here. At the beginning, they were sort of protesting in a different part of downtown, but then all of a sudden, started marching toward Tahrir Square. And it appeared as though the military was not really prepared for them to make that march. They didn't have any barricades in the way. There was no way for the military holding them off. And now these two sides are on Tahrir Square and are mingling amongst each other. We're not really sure if there's already violence, or if there's just screaming.
But if you look to the left side of our view right here on Tahrir Square, those are the pro-Mubarak demonstrators and to the right side, the anti-Mubarak demonstrators. I would say at this point in time, numbers-wise, pretty evenly matched, although more and more pro- Mubarak demonstrators are coming in here on the scene.
HOLMES: All right. Our Frederik Pleitgen on the story for us. We're going to be checking in in Cairo with our reporters again throughout the morning. So, Frederik, we appreciate you as always.
CHETRY: So as we've been seeing from the pictures, Egypt's uprising may have been President Hosni Mubarak's political undoing. But he is refusing to go out quickly. Mubarak says that he will step down after elections in September to ensure smooth transition. Could the White House have done more to get him to leave? Should they have?
Joining us now from Capitol Hill is Democratic majority whip, Senator Dick Durbin of Illinois. He is also a member of the Foreign Relations Committee. Thanks so much for being with us this morning, senator.
SEN. DICK DURBIN (D), ILLINOIS: Good to be with you.
CHETRY: So judging from those pictures that we've been seeing of the protests and some of the statements from the opposition, it doesn't sound like Mubarak has gone far enough, at least to satisfy many of the people there. Should he step down immediately and leave the country?
DURBIN: I think the sooner that he leaves the position of power that he's in, the better, so that we can have an orderly transition. The Obama administration has tried to push forward on this orderly transition. They have sent a direct envoy to meet with President Mubarak. And I think the sooner the better. And I think that's the message that he's received.
CHETRY: We know that Egypt's been one of the strongest allies, of course, to the United States. How concerned are you about the next leader of Egypt, if it potentially is somebody supported by the Muslim Brotherhood? Would you be OK with that?
DURBIN: I would be troubled by that outcome, but it really is in the hands -- should be in the hands of the Egyptian people. When you create a vacuum here, when a person like Mubarak leaves after 30 years, you're never quite sure what's going to fill that vacuum. I hope in the best interest of the Egyptian people it's someone that they support and it's also someone who supports our values and wants to continue the importance alliance between the United States and Egypt.
CHETRY: Well, certainly when we're giving $2 billion a year in aid, more aid to this country than any other besides Israel, we obviously have a stake in what happens. So would that continue? The mass amount of money, much of it military spending, if it's a fundamentalist Islamic regime?
DURBIN: Well, that's a question that I wouldn't even want to speculate on. But I can explain to you why we are so closely aligned with Egypt.
In 1979, when they stepped forward and really led in the Middle East by finding peaceful agreement with the Israelis, we said we'll stand by you so that the largest Arab nation in the world having reached a peace agreement with Israel is going to be a friend of the United States as well. And we've kept that alliance alive. And I want it to continue for the good of Egypt and certainly for stability in the Middle East.
CHETRY: Absolutely. We're going to, of course, keep an eye on the situation there as you are as well. I want to turn to health care though, because I know you're holding a hearing later today on the constitutionality of the health care bill. It was on Monday that a judge ruled that the provision that requires Americans to buy insurance was unconstitutional. And he was the second judge to say that. He says that without that key provision as well, perhaps the whole plan should be scrapped. What's your response?
DURBIN: Well, let's put it in perspective. There have been 16 attempts in federal court to overturn the health care reform bill. Sixteen. Twelve of them were dismissed. Four of them went to decision. Two found in favor of the law that it's constitutional. Two against. And the latest is in Florida. So this notion that somehow this is an uprising or some momentum against the bill really isn't reflected in reality.
Our hearing today, which I'll chair in the Senate Judiciary Committee, will raise the constitutional questions which have been brought before the court. I think that this law is clearly constitutional. And to repeal it, as many would call for in Congress, would create devastating impact for a lot of families and businesses across America.
CHETRY: Republican Senator Orrin Hatch, a member of the Judiciary Committee as well says, quote, "If government can force people to buy something they might not want, then there is no limit on federal power." What do you say to that?
DURBIN: I'd like to ask Orrin Hatch if he made his payroll deduction payment into social security this month or Medicare. The fact is, he did. And so did I. It's a system which we may or may not use, but we pay into during the course of our lifetime because we believe that having this kind of insurance for old age and for the health care in old age is a good thing for our nation. Similarly, bringing down the cost of health care for businesses and families, giving people some certainty about the coverage they receive is not only the humane and right thing to do for our country. It is the only way, the only way to seriously attack this deficit that we're facing.
CHETRY: Right. And the bottom line, senator --
DURBIN: Health care is a major part of it.
CHETRY: I mean, the bottom line is, if we don't have that mandate, right, that people have to buy insurance, the whole system doesn't really work because people who are healthy won't buy it until they get sick. So it wouldn't work at all in terms of bending the cost curve. So if this doesn't work out and if they rule this unconstitutional, is that health care law moot?
DURBIN: Well, I think we would have to take it from a different angle. Take a little look at it. But you put your finger on it. If a person can wait until they get sick or get a terrible diagnosis to buy health insurance, then insurance doesn't work. That's why we want to make sure there's personal responsibility that people who can afford to, buy the health insurance. Or face a tax penalty if they don't. CHETRY: All right. Well, we'll see what happens with this hearing today. Senator Dick Durbin, Senate majority whip, great to talk to you this morning. Thanks.
DURBIN: Good talking to you.
CHETRY: T.J.?
HOLMES: Well, Kiran, coming up on this AMERICAN MORNING, we all know it, it's dangerous. You shouldn't be texting and driving. But one state now is trying to make it easier for the cops to catch you while you're doing it. That's coming up.
Also, here at CNN we have an impressive crew of meteorologists. So why in the world are we depending this morning on a fat, furry ground dweller for our winter forecast? Beats me. We're going to show it to you anyway. Punxsutawney Phil coming up in minutes.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHETRY: Well, they jumped the gun a little bit here. OK. Let's listen.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I have been instructed which scroll to read. It sure is cold today.
Hear ye, hear ye, hear ye. On Gobbler's Knob on this beautiful Groundhog Day, February 2nd, 2011, Punxsutawney Phil was raised from his burrow by the call of President Bill Deeley. He greeted his handlers, Ben Hughes and John Griffiths. And after casting an inquisitive eye towards thousands of his faithful followers, he proclaimed the Steelers are going to the Super Bowl!
Back to the business at hand. He surveyed his surroundings carefully and found that there was no shadow around, so an early spring it will be!
CHETRY: I had a feeling this was going to happen. Congratulations to Punxsutawney Phil.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The sky is clear.
CHETRY: I don't get the whole part about the Super Bowl. We know they're going to the Super Bowl. I thought he was going to say whether they won or not, beat the Packers. But the bottom line is we don't have six more weeks of winter. Spring is just around the corner.
HOLMES: And what's his accuracy rate again, Kiran?
CHETRY: I think his accuracy rate is 39 percent.
HOLMES: That's right, folks. Thirty-nine percent. Four out of 10 times. I am really impressed right now that we put up the breaking news banner.
CHETRY: I love it.
This is breaking. It is breaking now. It's ultimate. The ultimate. I just -- I really do want to hear what Staten Island Chuck has to say, too, because if Staten Island Chuck agrees with Punxsutawney Phil things are looking good.
HOLMES: Oh, there's another critter?
CHETRY: Yes.
HOLMES: OK. The one that bit Mayor Bloomberg. That's pretty funny.
All right. We're going to take a quick break. Right now, we've been told by Punxsutawney Phil at least with his 39 percent accuracy rate --
HOLMES: Yes.
CHETRY: -- that spring is just around the corner. Meantime, we're dealing with this massive winter storm. It's been slamming the Midwest. Right now, it's far from over. We still got about 20 more hours of this stuff. Jacqui is going to fill us in.
HOLMES: Also coming up this morning, we continue to watch the live pictures we are seeing out of Egypt. We'll get back to those in a bit.
But also, it's not just about democracy there. What you've been seeing is also about money.
It's 26 minutes past the hour.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HOLMES: Good morning again, everybody. Welcome to this AMERICAN MORNING. A live look in Boston right now. Just one of many places seeing a lot of snow. A lot of places seeing a lot of ice. We continue to deal with a massive storm that affected some 100 million Americans and hit a third of this country. We still have another 24 hours before this is all said and done. We'll have more on the forecast in just a moment. But we are at the bottom of the hour now.
Hello once again, I'm T.J. Holmes.
CHETRY: And I'm Kiran Chetry. Glad you're with us. We have a look at our top stories now. As T.J. was talking about, this massive winter storm still raging. Six states now under blizzard warnings. Chicago getting slammed with blinding snow, gusting winds, snow drifts have rendered a lot of the major highways across the Midwest impassable. And in some cases they've just literally shut them down. Airlines as well having to cancel around 4,500 flights already today.
HOLMES: And you know you should not be doing it. Texting and driving. Now one state is targeting those texters. Lawmakers in Maryland, they are pushing a new law that would let cops pull you over for texting and driving. Right now, it's a secondary offense. They can only give you a ticket for texting if they pulled you over for another offense like speeding. So they are trying to change that. So if a police officer just sees you texting, he can pull you over for it and give you a ticket.
CHETRY: I want to take you now back to Cairo. Tahrir Square, where you can see the crowds growing. They say Egyptian opposition activists have made their way there. Thousands of anti-government demonstrators continuing to march there in the streets as well. This has been going on for nine days now. There has been some reporting, we are going to be checking in with our reporters, Ben Wedeman as well as Frederick Pleitgen that there are, of perhaps some fights breaking out on the streets.
HOLMES: We want to hop in here, Kiran. We're going to try to, in just a second, join one of our reporters from CNN International and try to simulcast here in just a second because as you can see from this picture, a lot of activity. A lot of movement. You can see it's hard to make out, at least from our vantage point. That's why we're trying to hear from our reporters which side is which quite frankly.
They are calling some of these folks pro-normalcy even protesters because the police, the army is telling folks "hey, we need to get back to a sense of calm. Don't come out here again to the streets. OK, you've made your point." We're going to head to CNN International now.
ZAIN VERJEE, CNN ANCHOR: Again, just to bring our viewers up to date, what are you seeing while you are in the crowd right now?
BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: What I'm seeing is at the northern edge of Tahrir Square, there is thousands of anti- Mubarak demonstrators throwing rocks back at the pro-Mubarak demonstrators who are basically trying to do the same. There are people fighting with sticks and clubs. A lot of people I'm seeing right now, a young boy right next to me has been injured by a rock.
And as I said before, the police aren't here. They're nowhere near this square. The army, to the best of my knowledge, as far as I can see is doing absolutely nothing to prevent it. I've seen the soldiers in and around the tanks that are on the northern edge of Tahrir Square, but they're doing nothing. They're not even firing in the air to try to restore order. They just seem to be watching passively as all of this is going on.
VERJEE: Ben, is it likely that people are armed with more than just sticks and rocks?
WEDEMAN: Yes, there's a high probability. I know that some of them - some of the pro-Mubarak demonstrators have clubs. People have told me they saw they had knives as well, so this is not just a rock fight. This is a good deal more than that.
VERJEE: Is this situation from where - what you can see going to escalate or is there anyone that can separate the two sides at this point? WEDEMAN: Well, there's a sort of - the crowds are all over on the tanks which are doing nothing. I think the soldiers have now retreated inside their tanks and closed the turrets but there's no attempt being made to - by the authorities to the extent that there are authorities here to stop this demonstration.
VERJEE: Ben, this is so different from what we saw yesterday in Tahrir Square. There was an element of calm yesterday, and people were even policing themselves. What's happening now? What has inflamed - obviously the very emotional situation already? WEDEMAN: Well, the difference between yesterday and today is that until yesterday, more or less, the pro-Mubarak stayed at home. They didn't do anything. And today being that - actually late last night the pro-Mubarak element started to come out in the streets, demonstrate in front of state TV, in front of our office, and so they've come out in massive numbers that we haven't seen yet.
So in a sense, the clash was inevitable. What was interesting is, initially, when the two crowds met, they talked. They debated. They debated passionately, angrily, but there was no violence initially. And then, of course, and you never know where - it's a big crowd, what's happening and how it happened, but it quickly deteriorated into crowd mob violence.
VERJEE: So just to basically reiterate then, Ben. There's no one there keeping security or no one there trying to control these crowds at this point?
WEDEMAN: Not a soul. Not a soul. Nobody. The police have been absent from Tahrir Square for days now. And the army, as I said, just on the side doing nothing. Hunkered down inside their tanks and armored personnel carriers.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We'd like to welcome -
CHETRY: All right. So we were listening to Zain Verjee at CNN International. We were needing to get that shot with Ben Wedeman who is there right there on the ground at the time. We're also going to check in with Ivan Watson who is also right above Tahrir Square to give us more of a sense on exactly what is going on and then what caused the inflammation here of tensions between the pro and anti- demonstrators that we've been seeing there. Ivan, are you with us?
IVAN WATSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (ON THE PHONE): Yes, I'm with you. I've never really seen anything like it. There are hundreds of people below me in the square engaging in a vicious street battle right now. Throwing rocks at each other. Soldiers are buttoned up in their tanks right now. And I'm just going to put the phone out so that you can listen a little bit to the madness here.
I don't know if you can hear that. That's the sound of hundreds of rocks being hurled back and forth. And we're seeing an ebb and flow between the pro and anti-Mubarak demonstrators as they are hurling stones at each other and being pushed back and forth across the streets around the square. We were caught in the throng here. I've really never seen anything quite like this before. I'm looking at about 20 men who are hiding behind two armored personnel carriers. They are anti-Mubarak people hurling stones down an alleyway at pro- Mubarak people and just about 50 yards away, there's a whole group of anti-Mubarak demonstrators lobbing stones at pro-Mubarak demonstrators. And the soldiers, their tanks are right in the middle. The hatches are locked up and they are not playing any role whatsoever in trying to keep these warring factions apart.
Now I have not seen injuries thus far but with the amount of stones that are being hurled directly at each other, it's like a deadly snowball fight with rocks. We are likely to be seeing serious injuries as a result of this. Pretty much all hell has broken loose here in Tahrir Square which has been the scene of eight days of defiance until now against Mubarak regime.
HOLMES: Ivan, this is T.J. here. We are watching these scenes as you are describing them to us. But it sounds like you are also describing that there is not much intervention, if any right now, from police forces or the army.
WATSON: The army - all the army is doing is they are locked up in their tanks and their tanks are providing cover for the people who are fighting back and forth to hide and avoid rocks. And now I see that the pro-Mubarak demonstrators are starting to advance on the anti- Mubarak demonstrators hurling stones. There are hundreds of young men moving forward. And in other place - this is insane.
In another place, the anti-Mubarak demonstrators seem to have pushed back - oh, god, there's a pool of blood on the ground here. They've pushed back the pro-Mubarak people and are chasing them down the street. It's really a violent standoff right now. I'd say that the two factions in one area near the Egyptian Museum are probably about 30 feet apart and just hurling stones at each other. And there's one man in black standing in the middle, seemingly calling for calm from both sides and stones are lobbed over him.
CHETRY: Ivan, this is Kiran again. We also have a little bit of reporting from Ben Wedeman who is also there in the area. He says he's seen several people injured in these clashes that have been taking place now right before our eyes. You mentioned seeing a pool of blood on the ground as well.
Just give us some perspective because earlier there was some reporting that these, "pro-Mubarak demonstrators were actually being paid." Are they coming there with the same passion, if they are being paid, to do this?
WATSON: There were - I was sensing two trends among the pro-Mubarak demonstrators today. Some seem to be die-hard loyalists of the government. And one young man I actually talked to said he had started out on January 25th demonstrating against the government. But after several days of demonstrations and certainly after Mubarak's speech last night, that he felt enough concessions had been made. Enough government ministers had been fired and he was satisfied that Mubarak would be stepping down in six months and he said enough was enough. It was time for life to get back to normal.
So I think there are two trends that I was picking up from the demonstrators who were coming out chanting "Long Live Mubarak" this morning, really for the first time that we've seen in more than a week now of demonstrations. And I just have to say that the vicious stone throwing back and forth is not letting up at all. The battle is continuing. There are some people trying to break up the battle, but it is still vicious and going on here. The people hiding behind tanks and hurling stones at each other's factions.
HOLMES: All right. Ivan Watson is on the line for us. Ivan, don't go anywhere. We're going to continue to keep a close eye on this picture and this situation. We want to bring into our conversation here now, former ambassador to Egypt, Daniel Kurtzer, who is here with us as well. Thank you for being with us again.
One of the first questions I asked you yesterday is the country of 80 million people. We have seen a lot of people, thousands in the streets protesting against the government there. But there's probably a good chance a lot of folks maybe support Mubarak. What do you make of what we're seeing on the streets today?
DANIEL KURTZER, FMR. U.S. AMBASSADOR TO EGYPT: Well, it's a delicate dance that's underway. On the one hand, the demonstrators proved over the course of 10 days they've got massive public support. But as one of the people on the street just said, enough may be enough for a large majority of the population that does want to see change but doesn't want to see the country descend into chaos.
The Egyptian military, I think is trying to find that right balance by urging Mubarak as was evident last night in his statement, to declare that he's not going to run for re-election. But also to allow this to happen with dignity. That he leaves office on time and is not pushed out.
HOLMES: Ambassador, can President Mubarak stop what we're seeing on the streets today by simply stepping down now?
KURTZER: Well, the answer is yes. If he walked away from office, I think certainly the pro-democracy demonstrators would leave the streets and cheer victory, but it could be a very problematic situation because, you know, who knows what would happen if there was some precipitous break. And I think the military, which as we mentioned yesterday, is going to be the arbiter of how this ends. It's trying to work this out in a manner which avoids the kind of street violence we're seeing happen this morning.
HOLMES: The president, President Obama said yesterday, and to our producers, let me know if Ivan Watson is still there. I want to check in with him in a second. He's not with us now but we'll get back to him. And again to our viewers who are watching, another day of demonstrations. These are a little different today though. Something we haven't seen because we're seeing thousands, according to our correspondents, of pro-Mubarak demonstrators on the streets clashing with the anti-government demonstrators. Have with me here Ambassador Daniel Kurtzer, former ambassador to Egypt. Sir, when President Obama said that an orderly transition must begin now, what did you take that to mean?
KURTZER: Well, I think on the one hand, he was commending President Mubarak for a decision that indicates where the end of the Mubarak era will be but I think the president was saying that he also wants to see concrete action toward reforms starting immediately. You know, the vice president of Egypt announced the other day that the beginning of a national dialogue.
We need to see evidence of that even television pictures of everybody sitting down and talking. We need to see a lifting of the emergency laws, the beginning of a constitutional reform process. So I think the president was wording his views quite carefully in suggesting that President Mubarak had made a step forward towards meeting the demands of the demonstrators. But the demonstrators and the rest of the world have to see progress toward reform.
HOLMES: All right. Listening to - having a conversation here with Ambassador Daniel Kurtzer, former ambassador to Egypt. Stand by for us as we continue to keep a close eye on these pictures. We're checking in with you again.
CHETRY: Right now we're going to head to Frederick Pleitgen who has been there at the scene as this mob clash back and forth between two different protesters -- anti-Mubarak and perhaps pro-Mubarak protesters fighting in the streets of Tahrir Square.
Fred, tell us more about what you are seeing out there now.
PLEITGEN (via telephone): Well, what we're seeing from our somewhat elevated position is that these two sides are still going at it. We had a little bit of what appeared to be tear gas used on the square just a couple of minutes ago, which was strange. As we've been saying there aren't any law enforcement authorities there and the military seems to be standing by.
Also, the other thing that we saw clearly here from our position is there appeared to be at least one injured person who was being carried away and then being laid down next to one of the tanks in the square. If you look down towards the square there seem to be more and more people coming into it as these clashes continue.
From our position we can just see people pelting rocks, pelting what appeared to be sticks or 2 by 4s or something. Some even told me that people were throwing shoes at each other as these clashes continue. And the scene really, Kiran, and interestingly enough seems to be getting more and more diffused.
It seems to be not one where you have two clear fronts, but where people seem to be mingling with each other and these clashes erupt. It's going to be very, very difficult to separate these two sides if, indeed there is some sort of force that's going to try to do that because from my position here, I can actually see the soldiers here just sort of hanging out, staying in their tanks and not really doing anything to try and de-escalate or stop the situation.
The soldiers so far have been -- here we go. We see another group of pro-Mubarak demonstrators charging away from the scene. That seems to indicate that there's some rock throwing going on there, clashes going on there.
Right now, it seems as though these sides are deeply intermingled and there's a lot of violence going on down there on Tahrir Square. It's going to be very, very difficult to separate these two sides. It is, indeed, one big mess down there, Kiran CHETRY: And we're hearing from some of our other producers, that Amir Ahmed has seen people in critical condition as he is describing it with blood flowing from their heads after being injured by these rocks. Any attempt at emergency services or anything to try to help these people that could be critically injured?
PLEITGEN: We've seen some, yes. Yes, we've seen some. We've seen some -- we're hearing from sirens as well from what appear to be ambulances. Right now, I don't see any ambulances on the scene yet. As I said, there are people who have been carrying what seemed to be injured people away from the scene and laying them down next to the tanks who are standing here, which one would believe might have some sort of military medic in the area.
But as far as ambulances are concerned, we haven't seen yet. We are hearing the sirens of these ambulances, as right now it appears as though these crowds seem to be charging at each other one more time and sort of little groups of crowds are forming as these melees continue.
It really is a very, very messy scene down there on Tahrir Square. So far I'm not seeing the emergency medical services. I am hearing their sirens, but it seems to be a very, very difficult situation right there on Tahrir Square right now.
And there are more people actually coming into the square. There are more people going towards it. We're seeing on our side here, in front of our building, more and more pro-Mubarak demonstrators that are pushing towards Tahrir Square. So it doesn't look as though the situation will be easing any time soon.
At this point, Kiran, it looks to me as though both sides are pretty much evenly matched as far as the numbers are concerned, Kiran.
CHETRY: Of course, on the ground reporting, you and your videographers there that are giving us this picture, this clearer picture, real-time picture of what's happening. Also thanks to some of the social networking we're able to get a -- round out that picture.
It's interesting. Nicholas Krzysztof has been tweeting as well. He's tweeting this morning that pro-democracy folks have heard protesters are being attacked and are now rushing to the Square by the thousands to help.
It will be interesting to see if you start to witness more people making their way to the Square after hearing, again, possibly through social media, that there is a battle of sorts going on there.
PLEITGEN: Yes, certainly. That could certainly be the case. The other thing that we have to keep in mind that, of course, international networks like ours were being watched a lot by people, they're obviously broadcasting this live. People will see this and I have no doubt that many people will try and rush to the scene here.
After all, this has been a focal point for them for so many days. It's really also been a symbol of this uprising that's been going on in Egypt. One of the things people were so proud of the past couple of days is how peaceful everything has been going here.
By the way, we're also monitoring Egyptian state media, which is, of course, run by the government. And they're calling - these guys were down there pro-stability protesters rather than pro-Mubarak protesters.
And they're saying through these official channels that these people are protesting for Mubarak completing his term. So they don't want him to stay in office indefinitely, but to continue his term. To get back to what you were saying. Yes, I do believe it's very possible that more of the anti-Mubarak protesters will come in here and it really looks as though some sort of force whether it will be the military because the police, we haven't seen them for the past couple of days, of course, so it will probably have to be the military.
Some force is going to have to get between these two sides. Some of our crews have also been talking to Egyptian officials outside of downtown and one of the things they have been really concerned about is this potential growing division within Egyptian society, that people are just getting very radicalized on both sides of this issue, whether they are pro or anti-Mubarak.
Obviously, we are seeing the first discharge of that, if you will, right here on the Square right now. Whether or not, as we have been saying some of these protesters might have been ordered to come here by the organizations that they work for, state-run companies or something or the other.
There are a lot of them out there and there's a lot of people now on both sides of the issue and they are clashing right in downtown Cairo and it really is a messy situation. And it really looks as though there is going to have to be some force that is going to have to pry these two sides apart and try and reinstate peace here in the Egyptian capital, Kiran.
CHETRY: Yes, and we're seeing the scene grow. It looks like from the picture we are getting from you. We will check back in with you, Frederik Pleitgen, with a vantage point right above Tahrir Square where all of this is going on right now.
HOLMES: We bring back into the conversation the former U.S. ambassador to Egypt, Ambassador Daniel Kurtzer is here with us and watching these pictures as well. And to our viewers, we are getting close to the top of the hour on this AMERICAN MORNING. We have been watching street de demonstrations for the past week. What we're seeing today is something we haven't quite seen before. You have thousands of people protesting in support of Mubarak. You heard our correspondent there just say some of these folks are in support of him staying at least until his term is up in September.
But then you have others on the streets. The anti-government demonstrators who want him to go right now. Those two sides, you have Egyptians themselves on the ground clashing. One of our correspondents called this a snowball fight with rocks. Says all hell has broken loose in Cairo and the Army, no one right now is trying to split these two sides up.
The Army right now, they are hunkered down in their tanks for their own protection it seems right now. So nobody is splitting these two sides.
Ambassador Kurtzer, we appreciate you sticking around here with us. Tell us what we are seeing on the ground in Cairo right now could possibly change the equation in all of this and maybe could this increase the pressure on Mubarak to leave immediately?
KURTZER: Well, this is the nightmare scenario that both sides had feared. Both have acted with restraint until now. The government deciding that it would not fire on demonstrators. The demonstrators by not approaching or attacking government facilities and yet you have now this outbreak, outpouring of popular counterdemonstrations.
It's hard to know how this thing can end. The government clearly is going to focus on the restoration of stability. We heard this in both of Mubarak's public statements, how important stability and law and order are to him. What that really reflects is the view of the army as well.
The army is maintaining the stability of Egypt and if it looks like there's a dissent into chaos looking over the abyss into chaos, I don't know how long the army can stay out of this fray.
HOLMES: We're watching here. Again, to our viewers, these are live pictures and not the clearest video feed but, still, can you make out what you're seeing there. We see some scuffles in the middle of these crowds. Some are calling them pro stability, folks on one side.
One group of demonstrators saying, you know, we just want stability right now. Some are saying, you know, you can stay in office until September, some calling themselves pro normalcy demonstrators. They just want to stop these demonstrations. Let's get back to normal life because really the economy has been shut down.
Cairo essentially has been shut down for a week with all of these demonstrations. Ambassador, what happens now with the rest of the world watching these pictures? Does the rest of the world -- maybe even the Arab world, start to view a little differently what has been happening in Egypt if you're seeing Egyptians now going head-to-head against each other? KURTZER: I think that's going to be the case. Until now, I think Egypt has proved to be an interesting model for the possibility of change. Even change that starts from the streets. If this violence, in fact, continues and if the army is forced to intervene using counter violence then it sends a challenging message to potentially pro-democracy forces elsewhere.
And it also sends a message to governments elsewhere that change is not going to be ushered in peacefully. This is a really critical moment, both in terms of where Mubarak ends up, but also in terms of the decision-making on the part of the Egyptian Army and how to deal with this violence.
HOLMES: Again, former ambassador to Egypt, Daniel Kurtzer. So we appreciate you. We hope you don't go too far. We appreciate your expertise as we are watching this still developing and breaking situation now seeing something on the ground in Egypt that we have not seen in a week of these protests.
CHETRY: All right, we're going to continue, as T.J. said, to monitor the events in Egypt. Returning to Cairo at the top of the hour, but in the meantime, of course, the big story back in this country is literally a coast-to-coast socking of severe weather, blizzard-like conditions.
Up to two feet of snow expected in places like Chicago. Here's a shot of the areas in Chicago. Lakeshore Drive, for example, closed. Chicago are told not to go out. School canceled for the first time in years.
Our Rob Marciano is live in Chicago with us right now with firsthand look at those conditions. Really just making a mess of things for travel.
ROB MARCIANO, AMS METEOROLOGIST: It has -- it's been a devastating storm for Chicago. You think of Chicago and you think of Hardy Midwesterns. You think they get cold. They get snow. We'll they get cold, but snow over 10 inches is a big deal. As a matter of fact, it's only been a handful of times where they have gotten over 16 inches in the past 120 years and this is one of them.
We're at 17 inches at last check. We probably got another couple of inches since then. You can see it's blowing sideways. They are trying to clear this up. Michigan Avenue, snow covered, yes. But they have been out here plowing it as best they can and there have been some cars trying to get through here.
The city buses have been running, but I tell you what, last night, it was mostly emergency vehicles that were running up and down this street with sirens blasting and trying to get folks who were in trouble.
Lakeshore Drive being the main area where motorists were stranded there and they had to get out there and try to literally save them. It's been a scary past 12 hours. We're starting to wind this thing down, but still blizzard conditions here for the next probably five or six hours and this is has hit this city very, very hard.
CHETRY: Sure thing. A big mess in New York as well with this ice storm coming down. Half an inch they say on the ground in some places. Rob, thanks so much and check in with you. We're going to take a quick break and we'll be back with the top stories.
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