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American Morning

Pro and Anti-Government Protestors Clash in the Streets of Cairo; Continuing Coverage of the Uprising in Egypt; Violence in the Streets of Egypt; Massive Storm on the Move

Aired February 02, 2011 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

KIRAN CHETRY, CNN ANCHOR: And welcome back to AMERICAN MORNING, 8:00 here in New York. We're taking you now live to Egypt where the clashes on the streets have gotten increasingly more violent. Protesters both pro and anti-Mubarak clashing in Tahrir Square, throwing rocks at one another.

We have our reporters on the ground. They see people literally in critical condition because of being hit in the head with these rocks. Our Ben Wedeman joins us on the phone. He is among the crowds here in Tahrir Square where things have even in the past 30 minutes degenerated significantly.

Ben, what is the latest? What are you seeing out there?

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SR. INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (via telephone): What we saw in there, the situation seems to have calmed down. The pro-Mubarak demonstrators have pulled back, but they are sort of -- they're collected in squares and side streets and whatnot and heart of the square (ph) is occupied by the anti-Mubarak protest movement.

What we saw just thousands of rocks flying in every direction. Anything anybody could pick up, they were throwing at one another. Lots of people who were bloodied by bones, including some children among the wounded.

The army is here, but it doesn't appear to actually be doing anything. They have tanks and armored personnel carriers in the square but what they don't have is troops to actually control the crowds. They sat helpless in their tanks (AUDIO GAP). CHETRY: It looks like we lost our connection with Ben. He's on the phone with us right now. But we have another expert on the topic to talk to.

T.J. HOLMES, CNN ANCHOR: Yes. And we'll keep these live pictures up. But bringing in once again the former U.S. ambassador to Egypt, Daniel Kurtzer.

And, again, we're watching this live picture, and it really -- and this picture, at least, Ambassador, it looks like these two sides literally running maybe even at each other. There is one picture there. We can't make out at least from the pictures we're seeing if these are pro-government folks or anti-government folks, but they are clashing down there on the streets.

And, Ambassador, you were saying to me a short time ago these pictures now have the potential to change the game?

DANIEL KURTZER, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO EGYPT: Oh, for sure. I think, as I said, the restraint shown until now seems to be dissipating. Over the next few hours, if this further descends into violence and chaos, the government will not stand by idly. The army and the police forces will have to intervene because of the paramount importance that's attached to stability.

HOLMES: And we need to continue to explain to our viewers there, what we're seeing here in these pictures, it may look like the protests you have been seeing over the past week, but they're not. These are different from what we have been seeing over the past week because this is the first time we have seen, according to our reporters, thousands of people out in support of Mubarak, in support of him, at least staying until September, until the elections. They are down there demonstrating and clashing with the anti-government folks who want Mubarak to leave office immediately.

And, Ambassador Kurtzer, how does this change the United States' stance? So far, not wanting to look, of course, like you're pushing a leader out. But how could this now change how the United States goes about doing its diplomatic business?

KURTZER: You know, T.J., until this morning, the United States has done what I think is a great job of finding its right voice with respect to where we need to be in terms of our interests, both with respect to our relationship with Egypt and with respect to our support for democracy. And also in the private diplomacy, the decision to dispatch former Ambassador Frank Wisner was a wise decision because it gave us another set of experienced ears and authoritative voice on the ground.

I think the administration realizes that the Egyptians will listen for mistakes on our part, but that we really don't have a great deal of immediate influence in changing events on the ground. So, I think the administration would be wise to continue the very smart path that it's been following, encouraging reform, encouraging stability, encouraging the maintenance with our relationship to Egypt.

But there's really not much more we can do at this point. I think everybody is watching this with the same anxiousness that we are.

CHETRY: I'd be interested to get your take, Ambassador Kurtzer, on whether what impact, I guess these protests and what we're seeing is having in Egypt? I mean, does this apply more pressure to the notion that they need Mubarak out now? Or does it sort of, in some way, make the case for -- look, this is the power vacuum we'd be left with if Mubarak was gone for the so-called pro-stability folks?

KURTZER: Well, you know, if there was a strategy behind the pro- Mubarak demonstrators actions this morning, it was to send a message that what the president said last night in his statement that he was not going to run for another term but, rather, would step down, that that's enough, that it's time to go back to normal life. And in some ways, I think this -- these events on the streets of Cairo may reinforce Mubarak's determination to leave that in place, to leave his speech last night unchanged.

I don't think in the immediate period ahead it's going to encourage him to move any further. Now, that said, the army is going to have to make its own assessment as to whether or not it can hold the line on stability and that judge is still out. We don't know how the army is going to assess the situation and whether or not they will push Mubarak to move up the date by which he leaves Egypt.

HOLMES: And some of the descriptions, Ambassador, we are getting from what's happening on the ground are certainly disturbing. Many of our reporters are there described it just about a half hour ago, saying all hell was breaking loose on the streets of Cairo. Another telling us they saw pools of blood in street. Another described it as a snowball fight with rocks.

Now, we're getting word, we have seen in some of the pictures, we couldn't figure out what was happening necessarily, but now we're getting word from our folks that a number of people are carrying clubs and riding horses and camels and charging into the chaos in the middle of the square there.

Here is some video of it. I was just describing, but people on horses and camels charging. We have a description and not sure if we're going to see it in the video here of one person being pulled off. You see, kind of, this taking place there -- a person pulled off and beaten. You see people kick. You see people with sticks, clubs hitting each other.

These are Egyptians against Egyptians now. So much of what we have been watching over the past week, it seemed at least many Egyptians were standing with one unified voice, one unified mission: we want better, we want more, we want no corruption, we want no more police brutality and we want President Hosni Mubarak to go.

But this is the first time now on the streets we have seen now violent clashes Egyptian against Egyptian.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.

CHETRY: And let's check in with Fred Pleitgen right now who is there. He's on the phone.

But, again, as T.J. is describing these scenes of violence, people literally are pulling other people off of horses, beating them, kicking them.

How -- why are we seeing this escalation right now?

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (via telephone): Well, this escalation clearly came as the pro-Mubarak protesters marched on to the square and these sides simply clashed. And, right now, you can still see they are throwing rocks at each other. There's a big battle actually going on right in front of our elevated position that we have here.

And you're absolutely right, just a couple of minutes ago, I would say about 50 or 60 guys on horse and camel-back actually launched a charge into the anti-Mubarak protesters. Now, the anti- Mubarak protesters seem to be launching sort of a counter-offensive of their own, as you can see, this crowd right here in front of us is sort of running away from the scene.

Meanwhile, however, more and more pro-Mubarak protesters are also arriving here, just sort of fortify those numbers. Bu it seems as though right now the anti-Mubarak protesters as you probably see right here on the front line, people just pelting rocks at each other and T.J. described it very well, just now saying it's a snowball fight with rocks and they sort of mounted this charge.

And, you know, the reason why this is happening, it usually is always the same. These two sides mix one thing leads to another. The first rock is thrown and then violence like this erupts.

Of course, the thing that you don't have on the street right now is any sort of law enforcement forces. We can see right now the pro- Mubarak side is now launching another charge. These are really, really violent scenes that we're seeing here in Egyptian capital. Right there in the foreground, you can see guys going at it with sticks against each other on the front lines fighting each other. It's, of course, a horrible scene that we're seeing here in the Egyptian capital.

And there is, Kiran, I know we have been stating it, but have to say it again -- there is no authority here to pull these two sides apart. Of course, you've been saying that the soldiers that are on the ground here and there aren't many of them. There are a lot of tanks, but very, very few personnel on the ground. They are standing by at this point in time and really not much that they can do, Kiran.

CHETRY: This is interesting. There is some reporting from Al Jazeera, a reporter on the ground saying that uniformed police are accompanying the pro-Mubarak supporters on horseback. What would be the implication there if that, indeed, is happening?

PLEITGEN: Well, I mean, it would be the implication that the police is obviously on the sides of the (INAUDIBLE). You can actually see some of these horse chariots now right in front of our building that we're in here, that were sort of charging into the crowd just a couple of minutes ago. I'm not sure I saw any uniform police among them, but certainly that could very well be the case.

We've also been hearing, of course, of violence being used against journalists on the ground there from the pro-Mubarak camp, as we're seeing another -- yet another charge there on the ground. And, certainly, the police force here has been notorious to be on the side of President Mubarak and to be very, very violent against these anti- Mubarak crowds. And, you know, over the past couple of days, we've asked ourselves where has this police force gone? Not just the regular uniform police, but especially these plainclothes police officers, which are very much hated by a lot of people here in Egypt.

And people have been asking, where are they? They vanished off the streets. They disappeared. Could they now be among this crowd? I'm not down there at this point.

It certainly seems very, very possible, because I can tell you, I was in a couple of situations in the past couple of days where we were attacked by people who certainly gave the impression that they had some sort of training in law enforcement, they knew exactly that they wanted to grab our camera and knew exactly how to twist your arms exactly the way a cop would.

So -- I mean, these people don't just disappear and it is very possible that they might be among the crowd of pro-Mubarak protesters. That's not to say that they were ordered here or that all of them were ordered here, but it certainly is a very as well possibility, Kiran.

CHETRY: Right. That would certainly be interesting because as you reported earlier, there was no police presence for the past couple of days and if, indeed, they are there now, it will be interesting to see what this development could possibly mean.

Frederik Pleitgen for us this morning on the phone right there in the thick of it in Cairo. We'll be checking in with you throughout the hour. Thank you so much, Frederik. Stay safe.

HOLMES: All right. Eleven past the hour here.

To our viewers, you are watching these pictures, live pictures of something we haven't seen in the week of protests. Now, we have Egyptians against Egyptians now on the streets with these violent clashes as those in support of the government are out, those against the government are out. Rocks being thrown, being described as a vicious street battle.

Our Anderson Cooper has been in Cairo for the past several days. Anderson is with me now.

Anderson, tell me your vantage point and describe what you're seeing today and how it is much different than what we have been seeing for the past several days and the past week?

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR (via telephone): T.J., these are stunning developments. I just tried to make my way to Liberation Square. I got as far as the Egyptian museum and with my team, Marianne Fox, producer, Neil Hallsworth, my cameraman.

When the set essentially set on us, one man grabbed Neil's camera and started screaming, "No, no," trying to take the camera from him. We intervened peacefully, and literally that was the switch that ignited the crowd and they just set upon us, punching us, kicking us.

A few people in the crowd tried to help by trying to stop the crowd, but we had -- I mean, literally a mob of people surround us just -- you know, I got punched in the head probably a good ten times or so, and we literally ended up being turned around by the crowd and we had to -- we tried to walk, we don't want to run because if we started to run, the crowd would, you know, sense fear and attack us even more. All of us are fine. My producer was roughed up. My female producer was roughed up by the crowd as well. But they clearly do not want cameras present in the square and are incredibly hostile to any media.

It was, frankly, one of the more touchy situations I've been in. We're literally for about five or 10 minutes, as we were trying to escape back to the location that we're now in, we were followed by a mob of anywhere from 10 to 20 to 30 people who were alternately, you know, kicking us and punching us and throwing rocks and bottles at us, water at us, whatever they could. It would sort of lull for a little bit, and then the crowd would -- someone in the crowd would kind of run up, punch me in the head and that would ignite the crowd again.

So, it was an incredibly touchy situation. I mean, this is -- what is so shocking about this is that the Egyptian military is standing by. I mean, there are tanks. They control access to the square as we've seen over the last -- the previous eight days, when they want to, they can control who goes where and who gets into the square. They could separate these two groups incredibly easily. They are literally standing by on their tanks, on their armored personnel carriers watching this.

Finally, an Egyptian soldier, after about, you know, 10 minutes of us being set upon by this crowd and when we were about half a block away from the location where we were trying to get to safety, one soldier kind of intervened. But, frankly, that did nothing. The crowd ignored him, continued all up until we were able to get indoors and escape from them.

It is a very touchy situation and to see the Egyptian, those that are standing by is shocking.

HOLMES: Anderson, it sounds like you have made it to safety now. That's good to hear. But down in the crowd, can you even make out which side is which? Who's who? Who's even coming after and attacking you guys you?

And also, you mentioned the army is standing by. Does it appear the army right now is outnumbered?

COOPER: Well, it's clear. I know exactly who is attacking us. It's the pro-Mubarak forces. There's no doubt about it. The Pro- Mubarak forces are in an area near the Egyptian museum, and we had to walk through that area, try to walk through that area in order to get to sort of these front lines between the two groups. We never made it that far. We made it about to the entrance of the Egyptian museum before the crowd set upon us.

We were able to walk through the crowd for about five minutes of pro-Mubarak supporters, and people would, you know, yell from Mubarak's statement at us, and, you know, of course, that's what we're there for to record that sort of stuff. But we suddenly became the focus of it and were able to go no further and literally had to make an escape. I mean, it was very, very ugly and had, you know, an order been given. There's no telling what the crowd would have done. I mean, they are enraged, and they are there to prove a point. They proved it at square. You know, there's a reason they are in that square today. Last night, you know, there was a mob of pro-Mubarak supporters outside of our location, yelling, throwing rocks at us in a -- what was clearly an orchestrated effort because there's been a government-backed event late into the night around 4:00 or 5:00 a.m., a pro-Mubarak event, and then the crowds kind of walked around after that.

But so now, clearly, they've gone to try to confront the anti- Mubarak demonstrators and prove a point and that's what they're doing. And I don't think it's a question of Egyptian military being outnumbered. The guys have tanks, and as you see, they could stop this very quickly if they wanted to. They are very efficient and have been controlling this area for days now. They have enough troops in position, but they simply are standing by.

CHETRY: Yes, and we are actually seeing some video as you were talking, pretty amazing juxtaposed scenes. One higher up that we saw a few moments ago. People actually kneeling down and praying. Huge crowd of people praying. We're seeing that picture again. But then, just off to the left of that scene, there appeared to be another scuffle where people were attacking one group, a larger group attacking a smaller group of people there.

But again, we're watching people kneel down in prayer right now. You described such a harrowing scene not long ago. I'm wondering if there's been some sort of calm that's descended upon the liberation square at this time?

COOPER: I'm seeing the prayer right now. It's not clear to me -- let me just look at sort of one of the flash points. Right now, there is now sort of a no man's land. I'm now looking over the scene where I was just in front of Egyptian museum. There seems to be kind of a no man's land now right in front of the Egyptian museum between the two groups, between the pro-Mubarak forces and the anti-Mubarak protesters who would have been in that square for the last nine days.

I saw pro-Mubarak protesters retreating quickly about five minutes ago, and now, there does seem to be some sort of a no man's land established. I'm not clear how that was made. Whether that was military intervened or whether just people in the crowd sort of trying to control themselves. But most people are still milling around. This thing is not over.

HOLMES: All right. We continue to watch these pictures. Our Anderson Cooper in a safe spot now. And Anderson, we are describing, as we are watching these pictures. Again, we are seeing these as our viewers are seeing them. People being carried off. The injured being carried off. This is happening in Tahrir Square where two sides are clashing, two different groups, two different camps of Egyptians, pro- Mubarak and anti-Mubarak after the president just yesterday said he is going to step down but just not when a lot of the protesters wanted him to.

They wanted him to go immediately. He said he's going to stick around in office until the September elections. That's not good enough for some. But today, we're seeing a first in these protests that's because it's described to us thousands of pro-Mubarak supporters have also taken to the streets and clashing violently with the anti-government protesters as well.

Nicholas Kristof of the "New York Times," I believe, we have on the line with us. He's been doing some reporting from there as well. Nick, hello to you. You tell me your vantage point.

NICHOLAS KRISTOF, COLUMNIST, THE NEW YORK TIMES (via telephone): Yes. I'm in this very messy situation in Tahrir that people are facing off. A woman just tried to come over to me that, you know, Mubarak and a bunch of some of the people that surrounded them and it's very tense, but right where I am, there is no violence at this moment.

CHETRY: Nicholas, stick with us, please, if you can. We're just going to take a quick break. We're going to come back to the scene in Egypt unfolding right now in Cairo in just a minute.

Also, another breaking story here at home, in the U.S., this colossal storm blanketing much of the country. Heavy snow. Now ice. A major ice storm making its way up and down the East Coast knocking out power to thousands. We're going to get an update on that coming up as well. It's 20 minutes past the hour.

HOLMES: Twenty-three minutes past the hour on this AMERICAN MORNING. We are watching a remarkable development today in Cairo. The picture you are seeing there, live pictures we've been watching for the past, they'll say hour or so of something we haven't seen in the eight days now of protests again the Mubarak government. We're seeing now Mubarak supporters come out by the thousands and they have been clashing violently with the anti-Mubarak forces there on the ground.

Some of our reporters describing pools of blood, a snowfall fight with rocks one described it as going back and forth. Nicholas Kristof of "New York Times" is on the ground there. He has been reporting for the past several days there as well. Nicholas, thank you for staying on the line with us. You said the area you were is relatively peaceful.

Now, are our cameras just trained on the area where some of the violence is taking place and would you say, for the most part, things are peaceful except for this one main area?

KRISTOF: Well, I mean, Tahrir is a vast area. So, the whole area is very messy and very confrontational, but there is one particular area where there have been, you know, really violent bloody clashes and then other areas a lot of smaller confrontations. Even in my area. And I've been trying to be very careful to have a good exit where I can run away. I just spotted a man with a machete.

You know, these pro-Mubarak people have been just pouring in, and they're picking fights. They're very confrontational. It's just sort of unclear where this goes. On the other hand, people have been pouring into the area to support the pro-democracy people as well.

HOLMES: Nicholas, you be safe there. We'll continue to check in with you, but as we hear from Kirstof and as we see this live picture as well as some more shoving -- pushing and shoving matches that are taking place. We have watched people be pulled off of horses and beaten. People charging the crowd on horses with clubs and sticks.

Nicholas Kristof just described seeing someone with a machete. Our Anderson Cooper described being beaten and hit in the head several times. You put all this together, and it's painting a really ugly picture of what's happening on the streets of Cairo right now.

CHETRY: Yes. And we actually have Anderson Cooper in front of the camera now. Hopefully, you were able to get out of that danger zone that you and your crew were in for a while there. Anderson, I also want to just mention. This is interesting, reporting from Al Jazeera that pro-Mubarak demonstrators found to have police IDs on them, tear gas canisters being let off as well, and that some believe, perhaps, this is being orchestrated by the regime to sort of force the army into action against some of these anti-government protesters. What are you seeing?

COOPER: I think there's little doubt this is being orchestrated. For what reason, I can't say. But let me just set the scene for you right here. The Egyptian museum is behind me. That is now kind of Ground Zero for the confrontation between the pro-Mubarak forces and the anti-Mubarak forces. I'm not sure how accurate you can see, but to the right of the museum are the, by and large, the anti-Mubarak forces. And all on this area, on the left of the museum, are the pro- Mubarak forces.

What is most disconcerting is that I'm looking down now and I'm seeing hundreds more people mobbed, groups of pro-Mubarak supporters who are on their way to the square. If we can kind of show you, it's a little bit of a walk for them. But there is one group down below me, there's another large group of several hundred people carrying banners, carrying large Mubarak signs, not the kind of signs you make overnight. Those are well produced signs.

Clearly, these people have been called to come down here. The state television which is controlled, of course, by the Egyptian government is calling these pro-stability demonstrators. They're not pro-Mubarak. They're being described as pro-stability demonstrators in Arabic. But the flashpoint right now is right in front of the Egyptian museum. That's where I was just about 15 minutes ago, we were trying to make our way to kind of the no man's land between the two groups.

We never got that far. We were set upon by pro-Mubarak supporters punching us in the head, attacking my producer, Mary Ann Fox, my cameraman as well, trying to grab his camera and trying to break his camera. They at first started going for the camera. They didn't want any pictures taken. Frankly, we weren't even really taking pictures with the big camera. I was using a little flip camera which they didn't notice. The big camera they were trying to grab it. We immediately started to turn around. We realized the situation would get very bad very quickly. We turned around and started to walk just calmly. The crowd kept throwing, kept throwing more punches, kicks, trying to grab us. It was pandemonium. There was really no control to it. Suddenly, a young man would come up, look at you, and then punch you right in the face.

You know, the instinct is to try to punch back or push back, but in a situation like that you really can't because that just inflames the crowd all the more. So, all we could do is just try to walk as quickly as possible and stay together and seek a safe location which is where we are now. And every one on my team is fine. But the two groups have been separated. There is no man's land of maybe 300, 400 feet between them at this point.

What is so shocking and I said this before when I called in is that Egyptian military is just standing by. I mean, they have controlled the choke point to this area for the last nine days. This area over here where you can see some Mubarak supporters starting to enter, there are military checkpoints there that they have been over many days have been checking IDs, have preventing people from getting in because they didn't want people to get in.

They are allowing people to get to the square. They are allowing these pro-Mubarak demonstrators to get to the square. Now, look, you can see the entire crowd is running. The entire pro-Mubarak crowd seems to be running from this vantage point. It's hard to tell why that happens. Sometimes, they're running after an individual. You'll get one person starts to run after somebody, and then, you know, everybody will join in and you'll get 20, 30, 40 people running after somebody and trying to beat them up, if they can.

At this point, it looks like it could get a lot worse because you have these pro- Mubarak supporters hoarding into the area. I'm seeing at least 300 more of them right now who are gathered down on the street in a staging ground, and it looks like they are now going to be walking toward this area where the other supporters are. It could become a battle of numbers at this point.

There are still more anti-Mubarak supporters than pro-Mubarak supporters, but those numbers could change very quickly if state TVs in any way encouraging people to come or if any groups are encouraging people to come or any groups are encouraging people to come. But this could get ugly very quickly, unless the Egyptian military decides to start to intervene.

CHETRY: Yes, we're seeing this picture, Anderson, rocks being thrown. You can see the rocks in the air being pelted back and forth. One question, you mentioned it was shocking that the Egyptian military was not stepping in. I was wondering if they do move in, could that trigger, you know, a worse situation among the anti-Mubarak demonstrators as well, a show of military force in that area as they are trying to demonstrate?

COOPER: Well, look, we have seen, in days past, I think three days ago, we saw troops fire in the air to control the crowd when the crowd was setting up on somebody who was believed to be a secret police officer. The crowd wanted basically to kill this guy. The troops shot in the air to rescue this guy and bring him into an armored personnel carrier.

If the troops wanted to, they could. There is a lot of respect on all sides for the Egyptian military. It's the one group in this country has widespread support. So I don't want to speak for them, but they are in control of this entire area. Nobody gets into this area unless they want people to get in or allow people to get in. At this point, they are standing by.

I mean, look, there's right in front of Egyptian museum in the area we were set upon and beaten, there's an Egyptian military tank as well as two armored personnel carriers. At first, the crowd tried to bring us to those armored personnel areas for safety, but they brought us there and there was no soldier who was about to do anything for us. So we didn't have to walk all the way around while this mob chased us.

And again, this large group of several hundred pro-Mubarak supporters are joining the fray, joining the demonstrations, and this thing is getting larger and larger.

HOLMES: Anderson, we heard that report again from someone else on the ground as well that people were actually hearing about what with was happening in the square and then coming out to the streets by the thousands. It sounds like that is what you were just describing. It doesn't look like the crowd is going to be dispersing any time soon. People are coming to the fight almost.

COOPER: I think it's fair to say that. What is interesting is with the Mubarak supporters, they are coming en masse. So we are seeing large clumps of several hundred at a time, which would -- you can read into it what you will, whether they are organized or been called by somebody, I don't know. But they are coming in large clumps with signs, pre-prepared signs.

So there does seem to be some sort of mobilization or people getting the word out to come down to the square and, no doubt -- look. Now it looks like there is a charge from -- I'm assuming the anti- Mubarak supporters are trying to move forward. I don't know if the Egyptian military is between the two sides, but you can see the pro- Mubarak supporters falling back en masse.

Now you have thousands of pro Mubarak supporters literally just running back. Now it looks like -- I see rocks being thrown. It looks like there is now a larger no man's land between the two groups, but, again, you have two front lines and rocks being thrown between the two.

HOLMES: Anderson, you are there watching it and we are watching this live feed as well. Can you help us? Can you even discern which side is which in this picture we're watching?

COOPER: Yes. On the left side is the pro Mubarak group. Do you see the red building on your right? That is the Egyptian museum, the large building probably in the foreground. The group on the left around the tower, that is the pro-Mubarak group. They have now fallen back to the edge of the Egyptian museum. The anti-Mubarak protesters are on the right of the no man's land.

And it looks like they are now trying to push forward. Farther to the right is Liberation Square. So they are not even right now in the square. They are several blocks from the square. And in the square, you have a large number, tens of thousands it looks like from here it's hard to tell accurately of anti-Mubarak supporters. It seems like on this side of liberation square is in front of the Egyptian museum.

And this is an area where the military has controlled the last nine days. They secured the museum within several days of this uprising beginning. There are Egyptian troops in front of that museum and tanks and armored personnel carriers on either side of that museum. So there are plenty of troops in that area if they wanted to intervene.

But again, to the left now, you see the pro Mubarak group has fallen back. Now, look. It looks like they are about to start to rush forward. This looks like it could become a pitched battle. You now have people on the front lines of both sides throwing rocks, throwing bottles, whatever they can find. This is not an area, by the way, where there are a lot of rocks, so I'm not sure -- yes, go ahead.

CHETRY: I was just going to ask you what the weapons are. We were seeing in one picture people like appearing to chip away at some of the brick. You can see some of the either stone or brick there on the ground. I don't know if they are trying to get more weapons, if they are trying to get more things to throw.

We earlier heard from, I believe, Nick Kristof seeing a machete. How much damage can they do to one another?

COOPER: Any weapon you can imagine, we have seen on the streets of Cairo in the last nine days. Remember now there are all of these neighborhood militias.

And now looks like the anti-Mubarak forces are pulling back and pro-Mubarak are rushing toward. In terms of weapons, they have knives and clubs.

Look at this. This is going to get ugly. The pro-Mubarak forces are absolutely rushing forward. Anti-Mubarak forces are rushing back to link up, it looks like, back in Liberation Square where there are great numbers of anti-Mubarak forces to back them up. But you're seeing the ebb and flow of both mobs in fronts of Egyptian museum.

And again in terms of weapons, in this crowd, I didn't see any because, frankly, we were being punched and kicked so much and set upon that I was looking down and trying to not to get too much punched in the head. But we have seen, you know, clubs, knives, bats, seen people with guns. But if you've seen people chipping away at things, it's probably paving stone people trying to rip up from the street that they can use to hurl at the other side. HOLMES: And to our viewers, Anderson, just updating them about what they are seeing. Something we haven't seen in the eight days of protests in Egypt. People are watching what is happening here. I thought it might be some kind after bellwether what might happen in the region.

When we saw thousands come to the streets and demand to have their voices heard and demand democratic reforms, demand that President Mubarak step down. Now we are seeing something different now, Anderson, the two sides going at it. They are showing us a wider picket now. Here it is again. The two sides rushing each other pro and anti-Mubarak forces -- or protesters, I should say, demonstrators clashing violently.

Anderson, what was the signal that something like this was coming today? How did they coordinate this, do we know?

COOPER: We do not know. I can tell you there was a large demonstration. It actually sounded more like a party nearby our live shot location last night. We were on the air from 3:00 a.m. to 5:00 a.m. doing my broadcast. And nearby, a few blocks from that location, which is several blocks from where we are now, there was a sound system set up, a very sophisticated sound system, much more efficient than any of the anti-Mubarak protesters have in the square, a large sound system. They were playing music. There was a party atmosphere for pro-Mubarak supporters.

This is something which emerged right after President Mubarak made his announcement he would not be stepping down but that he would not be seeking reelection. So there was this large party, it felt like, after which you had large groups of pro-Mubarak supporters kind of out on the streets and moving en masse.

They would come to the building where a lot of television networks have offices, where we have an office, and they would stand outside. And while we were on the air last night, we knew the mood was changing. They started yelling at us, yelling obscenities at us and throwing rocks at us. A few people tried to enter the building. There is not great security around that building.

So that became very touchy while with we were on the air. We were considering, you know, what would happen if they rushed into the building, if we had to fall back or if they started pelting us with rocks on.

So last night by 3:00, 4:00, 5:00 a.m. of this morning I should say, Wednesday morning here in Cairo, we started to get the sense that pro-Mubarak forces were mobilizing.

And there are pro-Mubarak forces in this country and there are people who the interior department here, the interior ministry according to the professor as many as 1.7 million employees. There are people have a big investment in the state and in seeing President Mubarak stay in power or seeing his allies stay in power.

So there are forces which support President Mubarak in this country, there's no doubt about it. The last nine days you have seen anti-Mubarak protesters by and large, but not they clearly feel emboldened and/or encouraged, I'm not sure which, but certainly emboldened to come and voice their opinion and show their support for the president.

So last night -- early this morning we started to get a sense, all right, there are these pro-Mubarak forces and becoming more belligerent and anti-media and they have no idea who we are usually, except they will be yelling at us that we're Al Jazeera. Al Jazeera right now is very unpopular and it has been shut down. So a lot of people think we are Al Jazeera reporters. I'm not sure if that's why they attacked us. There was some thought that maybe they recognized me from CNN. I'm really not sure.

But again, this ebb and flow continues. You have now what looks to be a push forward by a charge, if you will, by anti-Mubarak protesters on the right of the Egyptian museum and more falling back from pro-Mubarak forces. Again, it's give and take. It's not clear what is happening in the middle, I can see people throwing things, but, again, not that much to throw unless people bring stones or bring weaponry or Molotov cocktails to this square or dig up paving stones.

But again in that area there is not much they can gather, so a lot of people just kind of standing by looking for action, looking for a fight, and that is clearly the situation we walked into as we were trying to get to that square.

CHETRY: All right, Anderson, thank you so much for bringing us this firsthand account, you and your crew putting yourself on the line there to get this. I'm glad you guys are in a safer place. Earlier Anderson talked about being attacked by the crowd and hit in the head several times trying to get out of the situation when they camera.

So we will try to put a little bit of perspective and frame what we are seeing here unraveling today and unfolding before us in Egypt.

We will take a quick break and when we come back we will also get an update on this tremendous storm of ice, half an inch of ice in many parts of the northeast right now, and just blanketed snow across the country's midsection as well. Stay with us here on "AMERICAN MORNING." We will be right back. It's 42 minutes past the hour.

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CHETRY: Well, we have been following the latest developments in Cairo.

Right now we want to turn though, to our colossal winter storm that we have been talking about that is certainly living up to the hype in the forecast.

Forty-five minutes past the hour right now.

We are looking at cities shut down. We're looking at flights canceled and a lot of problems making your way on the roadways. Many roads in the Midwest shut down today. Here's a live look at the satellite picture right now. This isn't actually the radar picture that's letting us see where this system is moving. This is a massive storm. It's still dumping snow on the Midwest into New England. And then we have a thick layer of ice that's falling, freezing rain and ice building up on the roadways in the east. And there are still blizzard warnings in effect for six states.

So here it is from space. Let's take a look now at the satellite picture here. You can see it almost covering cloud cover from coast- to-coast, stretching more than 2,000 miles and covering more than a hundred million people.

HOLMES: And Chicagoans are just being told do not go out at all. They have been registering some 25-foot waves on Lake Michigan. Lakeshore Drive closed right now. And Chicago schools are closed. That might not sound like a big deal, sort of like a no-brainer.

Of course, you close schools but they haven't done it here in 12 years. So that just gives you an indication of how serious it is.

Rob, we've been checking in with him in Chicago, Rob Marciano. How has it gotten -- how has it changed I guess in the past almost three hours now we've been checking in with you?

ROB MARCIANO, AMS METEOROLOGIST: A little bit of -- of light at the end of the tunnel here, T.J. We have seen the snow decrease just a little bit. The wind has not decreased so we're getting a lot of blowing and drifting of the snow but the back edge of what's a larger system is beginning to move out. The wind is still here. And we may very well see more in the way of lay effect snows now coming off Lake Michigan which will pile up even more snow. But we have obviously seen a bunch.

We've seen over 17 inches -- over 17 inches in Chicago. That puts it in the top five as far as historic snowstorms go here in the city.

But you couple the wind, which was at times, damaging to many of the buildings here in -- and -- and at Wrigley Field here in -- in Chicago. And then you couple also in the dangerous snow drifts and blowing snow last night on Lakeshore Drive where we had -- hundreds of motorists stranded and there was just emergency vehicles up and down throughout the -- the city of Chicago trying to get to these people who were told obviously not to go outside but they did it anyway.

Anyway the city is shut down. And as you mentioned all government offices are closed. Schools are closed which is a big deal unto itself. Just the fact that Michigan Avenue has snow in it, usually even in a big snowstorm they are able to keep this pretty clear but traffic has been pretty light. There are a few folks out and about by foot and a few businesses open, but, for the most part, people have stayed inside and -- and heeded the warning.

It is dangerously cold out here. The thing with this system, guys, is that you know, we have storms come through often, but we don't have an Arctic air mass that's coming through like this one. And from here all the way down to Texas everybody in the deep freeze so this stuff not going away any time soon.

Back to you guys in New York.

CHETRY: All right, Rob Marciano for us this morning. Thanks so much. And St. Louis was right on the line. A dangerous mix of ice and sleet and about three inches of snow on the roads and this happened. A salt truck got too close to the curb and then literally tipped over.

The fire department had to come to the rescue. No one was injured but it made for quite an unusual picture.

HOLMES: And take a look at what they are dealing with in Indiana. An inch thick layer of ice on the roads, you just can't do anything with that stuff. With all the ice they are getting there, of course this weighs down those power lines. Starts snapping some tree limbs and you get a mess and you got people without power, 50,000 at this point. And they are warning people there you may be without that power for days.

CHETRY: Well, we were telling you earlier about Amtrak service in the northeast being shut down. We want to give you an update now. Service on the northeast corridor between New York and Philadelphia has been restored. There are still, though, some delays to deal with; 60 minutes in some cases and up to 60 minutes and 30 to 60 minutes. They had power problems earlier this morning and many attributing that, of course, to the ice as well.

HOLMES: Well, they are kind of getting back up and running.

Airports not going to get back up and running for days, more than likely; we're talking about some 11,000 flights that have been canceled across this country over the past two days. O'Hare and Midway in Chicago grounded all flights.

CHETRY: And some of the nation's biggest airlines have had a lot of trouble catching up and they had a lot of catching up to do already. American has canceled close to 3,000 flights. And these -- these numbers are all going to go higher today. Delta more than 2,100 and JetBlue over 1,100, US Airways grounding close to 700 flights.

Our Jacqui Jeras is in the Extreme Weather Center for us. And I mean this is the worst, right? When you're talking about ice especially in the northeast?

JACQUI JERAS, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Yes.

CHETRY: It's -- it's just practically impossible to -- to make sure you're safe on -- on a runway or anything when -- when you're dealing with ice.

JERAS: That's right. It collects on everything. You can't walk on it, you can't drive on it and you can't fly an airplane in it and that's why we're having problems at Islip which is closed. At least the runways are right now. This is the only official closure and the only official delay that we have but that's because we have those thousands of flights that you guys just showed that are canceled. So if the planes are -- actually scheduled, well, then they can't really be late, now can they?

All right, one of the other things I want to mention by way, guys, is the winds and how bad the winds are with this storm. You talked about some of the power outages in Pennsylvania as well as in Indianapolis. Well, guess what? The really strong winds are still going to be moving in with this storm.

So, you know, if there is any tree limbs that are still just hanging on by -- by a limb, so to speak, the wind could help knock that off. So we're not out of the woods yet by any means in terms of power outages with this storm.

Ok, the good news is things are starting to wind down a little bit in Milwaukee. The heaviest snow accumulation is ending, still kicking though, into the Chicago land area and it's really heavy right now across western parts of Lower Michigan. We are going to be seeing things continue into the northeast with that freezing rain and that sleet as it moves on in.

New York City you got maybe another hour-ish before all of this changes over to some rain so things are going to be looking a lot better here. Mix expected in Boston and sleet and freezing rain and mostly just snow as we head into northern parts of New England.

Here is what we're expecting for the heaviest accumulations today. All really just on the northern tier but we could see well over a foot in interior parts of northern New England. About 24 hours or so and then we'll be done with this storm.

Check out some of the updated numbers for you now: Columbia, Missouri, 17.5; 17 at O'Hare; Moline 16.7; Midway now as in Chicago as well 15.6; and four inches in St. Louis, Missouri.

And I might want to add too, by the way, guys, you were talking about some of those people that were stranded on the roadways. Well, we just got word right outside of Rockford, Illinois, that there are about seven vehicles that are stranded. People have been stuck there since 7:00 in the evening last night and there's snowmobile club that's trying to go out there and rescue them at this hour.

So really dangerous conditions here. We're getting reports in northern Illinois and southern parts of Wisconsin of some drifts between 10 and 15 feet and you heard Rob kind of allude to that Arctic air that's in place.

Take a look at this. The wind chill in Dallas, three degrees below zero. So that Arctic air really gripping so much of the west and making its way off to the east.

CHETRY: Yes and I feel bad for people trapped in their car since 7:00 p.m. and hoping for a snowplow to get you. Wow, what a mess.

JERAS: It's really dangerous and it's that cold too.

CHETRY: And that's why they're telling people in Chicago just please don't drive today, just stay home.

JERAS: Don't do it.

CHETRY: Thanks a lot, Jacqui.

HOLMES: And of course, we have been watching over the past hour or so now remarkable developments from Cairo. A different day in that city, not a day where you see thousands come to the streets against the government but what you're seeing now are Egyptians against Egyptians, two different sides clashing violently in the streets.

We will go back live to our Anderson Cooper after a quick break.

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CHETRY: And we want to take you back to the scene in Cairo in Liberation Square where we've seen clashes all morning for the last hour and a half at least between pro and anti Mubarak forces.

Our Barbara Starr just got some new information from a senior U.S. official saying that they now believe the Egyptian police are coming back onto the streets in Cairo and will be the first forces to deal with the emerging violence, rather than the Egyptian army.

And that's something that -- that -- that we had been getting some sporadic reporting of people seeing perhaps police on the streets.

We want to go back to our Anderson Cooper right now who is there watching and actually for a time was in the middle of quite a dangerous situation.

Have things settled down at all or what have you seen, Anderson, over the past few minutes?

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, "AC360" (via telephone): It does not appear that things have settled down. I mean, you still have these two opposing sides, the -- the pro-Mubarak forces which continue to come into the Square. New people keep arriving. Those are on the left-hand side of the Egyptian Museum which is that big red building in the foreground. And on the right-hand side are the -- the anti- Mubarak protesters who have been occupying Liberation Square now for this, the ninth day of these protests.

We just -- I just saw images from another camera in Liberation Square of somebody being brought away on -- on a make-shift stretcher. Clearly, there are people who have been injured in this melee. It is very violent down -- down there. There are people looking for a fight on the pro-Mubarak side.

It looks like I just saw what appeared to be some sort of a flame, I don't know if that was a Molotov cocktail being thrown. But we were just down there about 30 minutes ago and got kicked and punched pretty well for about five or ten minutes before the mob literally forced us to seek safety in the location we're on now.

Again, you have these sides here and with the Egyptian military from this vantage point at least and when I was down there, I can tell you for a fact not doing anything about it, standing by and watching. There's now something of a no man's land between the two horses.

Now we're just hearing some shots going off, possibly shots fired in the air by the Egyptian military. We don't know; it could be from the protesters. But that is one way the Egyptian military tries to control crowds is by firing into the air. Now we are hearing a few more shots there echoing. It's hard to tell the exact location of that. Now we hear a number of more shots. I'm not sure if you can hear that. Let's listen.

There are reports that Egyptian police on horse-back were seen with the pro Mubarak forces heading toward the square. That would certainly be of concern to the anti-Mubarak forces. The question is why isn't the Egyptian military stepping in to try to control this?

Again, without being on the ground in the middle of it is very hard to tell now what is going on but it looks like there is some sort of crossover between -- in the no man's land and again more shots echoing off in the distance.

HOLMES: All right. Anderson, thank you. We will continue to look forward to his reports on. Anderson, you stay safe.

I want to hand it over now to Kyra Phillips, in the "CNN NEWSROOM" continuing coverage of this breaking news situation; a changing situation on the ground there in Cairo today.

Hello to you, Kyra.