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Jane Velez-Mitchell
Will Dad be Charged with Murder of Three?; Sheen Back to Work Soon?
Aired February 04, 2011 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST (voice-over): Tonight, a father accused of kidnapping his three adorable little boys speaks to the media for the very first time. Cops believe the missing kids were murdered. But this dad claims his kids aren`t dead; they`re safe and in a secret location. You will hear his jaw-dropping claims in a chilling jailhouse interview.
And the very latest on Charlie Sheen. A new rehab controversy. What`s he up to now?
Plus, escalating outrage over a shocking video that appears to show a pack of cops repeatedly throwing punches, kicking, stomping a teen burglary suspect while he`s face down and defenseless. Are these officers getting off easy?
And this Sunday you can go to church and talk about porn. What? That`s right. Hundreds of churches across the country are admitting there`s a porn epidemic in America. Is our addict nation out of control? I`ll talk to the pastor who`s leading the push against porn.
ISSUES starts now.
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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHIEF LARRY WEEKS, MORENCI POLICE: Any time you have children this old that are not with a caring loved one, I think you have to assume they`re in some kind of jeopardy. They`re not with their loved ones, so I`m very concerned about their welfare.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight, breaking news as the Michigan father accused of kidnapping his three precious sons speaks out from behind bars. Cops now believe 9-year-old Andrew, 7-year-old Alexander, and 5-year-old Tanner, these precious children, the Skeltons, were murdered.
But John Skelton, the dad, who`s being held on $30 million bond, insists his sons are not dead and he has no idea where they could be. Listen to this from HLN affiliate WXYZ.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you know where the kids are?
JOHN SKELTON, SUSPECT IN SONS` DISAPPEARANCE: No. Unfortunately, that -- that has escaped me, as well.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Time out. It escapes him? Where his own kids could be? Didn`t this guy, John Skelton, insist that he gave his sons to a super secret underground organization? You know, to keep them safe from their mom, his estranged wife, Tanya?
Cops say that claim is a bunch of bull, that these groups do not even exist. And not for nothing. They cleared his wife of any wrongdoing.
Now, we`re going to have more of John Skelton`s jaw-dropping jailhouse interview in just moments. Meantime, cops say John Skelton is now the primary suspect in the investigation, based on a slew of evidence they`ve collected, including a search of his home. What they`re not saying is exactly what they found in this sicko`s home.
Will cops charge Skelton with the murder of his three sons? The cops now believe those precious children are dead, even though this guy claims they`re not. What are they waiting for?
Straight out to family friend Bill Foster.
Bill, you`ve undoubtedly heard his jailhouse interview. What is your reaction to John Skelton`s claims that "Oh, just because it`s a murder investigation, uh-uh, these kids are alive. I gave them to an underground group, but we covered our tracks. And they just won`t be able to find this group"?
BILL FOSTER, FAMILY FRIEND (via phone): Well, if you listen to that whole tape in its entirety, you can -- you can see right through his stories. I mean, John has done nothing but lie time and time again about this whole deal.
You know, what they have for evidence and everything, of course everybody`s not allowed to know. It is a murder investigation. And one thing, if you listen into that tape, and John is so surprised, because this was taped before they come out with changing it to a murder investigation.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. We`re going to play you some more selections. This is absolutely astounding.
Now, first he said he gave the kids to some lady he met on the Internet because he wanted to get them away from the house, because he planned to commit suicide and he didn`t want his kids to see that. Then he changed his story, and he said he gave them to a secret organization.
Listen to this exchange from Skelton`s unbelievable jailhouse interview. Check this out.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SKELTON: There is nobody to corroborate seeing them. There`s no pictures of these people. We covered our tracks really well.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, when he`s talking about "these people," he`s talking about these groups that he gave. Look at these names. All right? Underground Sanctuary. United Foster Outreach. Underground Sanctuaries. Guess what? The cops researched this, and so did I. I went on Google. These groups do not exist, Mike Brooks.
MIKE BROOKS, HLN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: No. And it just happens to escape him? What a crock of B.S., Jane. I am not buying any of this.
And you know, it`s really not a good thing when law enforcement comes out and says that they, quote -- "there has been a shift in investigative focus" and that they want to put to rest any hope that the boys will be found alive.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Mike Brooks, why do you think he has not been charged -- he`s charged with parental kidnapping at this point. Is it just simply the old "no body, no case"?
BROOKS: Well, there`s no hurry. I mean, he`s locked up. They`re working on putting together a rock-solid case. You`ve got local, state, and federal agencies that are involved in this.
I think now that they`re looking and shifting their investigative focus. That says to me that they have some evidence, and they`re working on putting this case together and just totally debunking all these claims that he`s making.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: So now that they believe that these poor, poor boys are dead, there`s no race against time to find them?
BROOKS: No. Exactly.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Even though the boy`s mom has been cleared of any wrongdoing -- she`s another victim in this case; imagine the hell she`s going through -- John Skelton, her estranged husband, is still going after her. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SKELTON: I`m probably the only one here volunteering to be in jail. Yes. I refuse to let them go back with Tanya.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: He is making this disgusting claim about his estranged wife, Tanya. Quote, "The boys told me that Tanya -- they put it -- sexing them. Tried to confirm with Tanya but Tanya wouldn`t have anything to do with me," end quote.
Now, I want to be clear here. He`s not accusing her of sexting them. He`s accusing them -- her of sexing. I don`t even know what sexing means, Stacy Kaiser, psychotherapist. And of course, the cops say this is a crock, that the mother wasn`t doing any such thing as sexing them, whatever -- whatever that means. What could that mean?
STACY KAISER, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: Well, I don`t know what that means, but here`s what I can tell you. Most 5-, 7-, and 9-year-old children don`t even know what sexting is or much about sex. So that`s not how they would be describing what was happening if anything were to be happening.
To me it just clearly sounds like somebody who`s looking for a scapegoat for what he did wrong.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And just to sort of follow up on that, Bill Foster, you`re a friend and neighbor of the Skelton family.
FOSTER: Yes.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tanya Skelton. I think she`s gone through hell. She`s a victim in this case. The cops say she did nothing wrong.
FOSTER: Absolutely.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And did you see any evidence that she might have been abusing her kids as this...
FOSTER: Absolutely not. I know this family. I`ve known Tanya for years. The whole family. I mean, we`re a small community here. Nothing ever has happened like that. The police has cleared her of all wrongdoing or anything like that.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And by the way, she`s the lady we`re going to show you in a second there. There. That`s the mother. Imagine what she`s going through.
FOSTER: Yes.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK. Continue on, Bill.
FOSTER: So -- and another thing: John claims in that tape, you know, that he had turned in evidence and this and that. Well, Larry Weeks, you know, has done a phenomenal job for this community...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: That`s the police -- the police chief.
FOSTER: Yes. Police Chief Larry Weeks. And you know, if anything was ever to be turned into him, he`d be all over it, you know -- all over it. He would not, you know, dismiss anything like that.
And there`s never been a complaint by John until all this has started. And then like with his mother on an -- interviews and the whole family.
And I`d like to point out, John always claimed that family was all. But in that tape that you`re listening to from that radio or TV station, he claims his parents as contact numbers. Well, one part of the story, he don`t recollect where they went, and the next part, if they let him out his family knows how to contact them.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. Oh, yes. So he`s claiming, "Oh, yes, I don`t know where they are, but" -- just so the viewers heard what you said -- "if you -- if you let me off the hook here, yes, my parents, they`ll be able to get in touch with the kids." Unbelievable.
Now, this is -- this is where it`s all headed.
(CROSSTALK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Skelton and his estranged wife -- yes. Well, I`d give them an opportunity to talk. Just because he`s mentioning them doesn`t mean that they`re involved.
But the bottom line is this John Skelton character and his estranged wife, Tanya, are in the middle of a nasty divorce. That`s what it`s all about. Listen to what he said, the suspect, about her just last week during a court hearing on their divorce.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SKELTON: The divorce, the motion for a divorce and all that other stuff showed that she was asking for -- she was asking for alimony.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, before I get to my big issue, Jayne Weintraub, that`s the craziest thing I ever heard. This guy is in jail, charged with parental kidnapping of his three children. Cops say he`s the focus of the investigation into what they believe is the murder of his three children. And he`s in court worried about alimony?
JAYNE WEINTRAUB, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: It doesn`t make sense, Jayne. The only way that his story is believable is if, when his kids reported some kind of abuse to him, that he reported it to, you know, Division of Family Services or went to the police officers and were rebuffed. If he was rebuffed in his, you know, motives to try and get help for his children, then that`s one thing about why he would give his kids to somebody.
But nobody gives their children to some stranger under some pretext like that. It just isn`t believable.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: But I don`t understand, Mike Brooks. If something untoward happened, as the police believe, there`s got to be some evidence at his house. How do you -- I don`t even want to think about it. But how do you kill three kids and bury them somewhere, or whatever was done with them, without any trace of them? I don`t get it.
BROOKS: No. And that`s why I think now with this, what they`re calling an -- shift in investigative focus, that there is some evidence, Jane, some evidence that they`re not holding, they`re not going to give out right now. And I don`t blame them. He`s in jail. Let him keep running his mouth. You know, that`s what...
WEINTRAUB: Sounds like they have evidence of the kids` death.
BROOKS: They do. They do. If they`re talking about this shift in focus right now.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And this poor mother who was hanging onto hope that her three babies are still alive. I can`t even imagine what she is going through. And then to have these ridiculous accusations thrown at her, it`s obscene.
Everybody, hang tight. We`re just getting started.
Also, is police brutality behind this? Take a look at it. An absolutely jaw-dropping video appears to show a group of cops pummeling a teen burglary suspect while he`s face down and defenseless. We`re going to bring you the very latest and talk to somebody at the center of this controversy.
Plus more on this stunning first-time interview with the father accused of kidnapping his three precious sons.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WEEKS: Any time you have children this old that are not with a caring loved one, I think you have to assume they`re in some kind of jeopardy. They`re not with their loved ones. So I`m very concerned about their welfare.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WEEKS: After making an assessment of where we`re at, it was determined that, from this point forward, this is no longer a missing persons case but a murder investigation.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight, cops say the father of three precious brothers from Michigan is now the primary suspect in the investigation of their murders.
In another jaw-dropping development, John Skelton, the dad of these three boys, is speaking out from behind bars. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you know where the kids are?
SKELTON: No. Unfortunately, that -- that -- that has escaped me, as well.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Escaped him? What the heck is he talking about? My big issue, did John Skelton have motive and opportunity to kill his sons?
It probably started back in September, when Skelton took the boys from Michigan to Florida. That apparently triggered Tanya`s divorce filing. She reportedly had wanted to patch things up but went to divorce court in order to get custody.
Now, I want to go back to Bill Foster, a friend and neighbor of the Skelton family, and ask you: this trip, OK, with the boys, John Skelton suddenly picks up in Michigan and goes, well, look at it, halfway across the country, all the way down to Florida. Why did he do that?
FOSTER: Well, I believe John wanted his cake and to eat it too. I know, you know, he -- I guess he`s the one that triggered it, that he wanted the divorce. You know. I try not to speak out of turn. You know, I don`t want to disrespect the family in no means. They`ve been through enough.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I get the feeling that there was somebody down there. Yes or no?
FOSTER: Yes.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Of the female persuasion?
FOSTER: Yes.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes or no? OK. Now we know what was really going on.
FOSTER: And he -- you know, they was able to talk him back when he first took -- he took them right out of the school. And the school notified the mom, because it was out of context. They`d done a wonderful job doing the protection. Because he was their dad.
But when it all started, I -- me and my wife had tried to help Tanya, and Larry Weeks come to my house, and you know, they reported it. And they got him back.
Later in the day John was able to grab the two oldest boys and take off. He didn`t take all three. And then the family had to go down and go to court in Florida, which brought them back to Michigan.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. So you`re painting a picture. Jayne Weintraub, what does that tell you about what was really going on here? It sounds like this John Skelton had an affair going on in Florida. He wanted to take his kids. She wanted them back, and that`s what started this horrible downward spiral.
WEINTRAUB: Or he thought that they were being abused and he wanted to take them...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh, please.
WEINTRAUB: ... and -- you know, Jane, just because it sounds bizarre doesn`t mean it`s not true. If he went for help...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: You know what?
WEINTRAUB: ... if he saw a therapist, if he reported the abuse.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: No. He was -- the implication is he was having an affair. Stacy Kaiser, psychotherapist...
FOSTER: It all -- it all says right in that divorce hearing. I was sitting in the courtroom. He didn`t ask about his whereabouts of his children. He didn`t say he loved them, missed them, nothing. Only thing he cared about was...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Alimony.
FOSTER: ... the alimony or her lawyer. He didn`t ask two -- he didn`t give two hoots about them kids in that courtroom, and I sat right there. There was no abuse in that family.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Stacy Kaiser, weigh in on all this new information we`ve been getting right now here on ISSUES.
KAISER: See, the way I see this is this is a narcissistic and impulsive guy who had this idea to go be with a woman and then he didn`t get his way. He had to go bring the kids back.
And what you see with somebody who`s volatile and angry is that they might decide that he doesn`t want his wife -- or his ex-wife to have those kids, and he`s going to make sure that he can`t have them by killing them, or getting rid of them in some way.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. And it`s just a matter of time, unfortunately, before the other shoe drops in this case. What a sad, sad thing for this mother to have to go through all of this.
Thank you, fantastic panel.
Shocking -- and I mean shocking -- video shows what appears to be a pack of police officers delivering blow after blow and kick after kick to a teen burglary suspect who is face down on the ground and not resisting.
Plus, Charlie Sheen`s texting. You won`t believe what`s up now with Charlie.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. PAUL NASSIF, MADE SHEEN 911 CALL: Since this is not a Charlie that I know -- you know, we didn`t heavily get into what happened the night before, you know, what`s going on. You know, I did talk about, you know, what could happen to him if his life continues this way from a medical standpoint.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight, is Charlie Sheen really trying to get clean? The Hollywood train wreck reportedly wants to be back at work by the end of the month.
Here`s Charlie at the start of a reported two- or three-day bender complete with porn stars. This landed him in the hospital just last week. Charlie`s now said to be undergoing treatment in the comfort of his own mansion. But is CBS quietly rushing its sitcom star back to the set of "Two and a Half Men"?
Sheen texted E! News this week, responding to reports that his dad, Martin, was seeking legal control over his finances. He texted, "All crap. Believe nothing. I will never speak about any of this as long as I`m alive. You`re going to all have to keep towing the same redundant line, guessing wrong."
Well, to me that says Charlie is watching coverage of his scandal on TV. And that`s precisely the kind of thing he would not be allowed to do in a real rehab. Straight out to TMZ managing editor Mike Walters.
Mike, what`s the latest with this guy?
MIKE WALTERS, TMZ MANAGING EDITOR: Well, like you said, Jane, he`s doing rehab in the comfort of his own home. And on one hand, I get that, because obviously in my business, rehab facilities, stuff does leak out about their treatment, about the counseling, private stuff they tell people inside the organization. So I get it.
The problem is the comfort of his own mansion is always sometimes the place where you have access to your phone, to dealers, to alcohol, even to just sitting in your own thoughts and not get the right therapy that you need.
But, you know, the issue right now is whether Charlie`s going to go back to work. And I think, look, if you have a problem -- and it seems that he`s sort of admitting he does -- I think that rushing back to work might not be the best thing right now. He needs to get actual treatment, then decide if he wants to go back to work or not.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, you bring me right to my big issue. Is Charlie Sheen under pressure to get back to work? CBS said publicly they support him 100 percent in his recovery.
"Two and a Half Men" is on hiatus while he gets better, or tries to. An executive producer on the show now says he expects Charlie`s treatment to be all wrapped up by the end of this month. What? Are you kidding me?
And how`s this for ironic? The new episode slated to air Monday is entitled "Three Hookers and a Philly Cheesesteak." I don`t know. Does that sound like the kind of show Charlie needs to rush back to right now?
WALTERS: Well, I mean, I think the reality is you know, a lot of Charlie`s character on the show is drinking, hookers, strippers. I mean, the character`s built around somebody sort of similar to Charlie Sheen`s real life. So I`m sure it`s pretty easy for him to do that.
But you`re right. I don`t think he should rush back into filming and being around or even faking that he`s with porn stars and strippers and drinking alcohol. I don`t think it`s the right thing to do at this point.
But the reality is there`s 300-some-odd people that rely on Charlie Sheen for their jobs. There`s people that will be out of work, people that can`t afford their mortgage if he doesn`t work. So that is an issue they have to take into consideration when dealing with when Charlie Sheen comes back.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, he should have thought of that, Mike, before he went on that bender, before he trashed the Plaza Hotel, before that photo was shot of him. If he was really care -- if he really cared about those 300 people, he wouldn`t have gotten himself into this jam in the first place. And now he can`t use that as an excuse to get out of his rehab so quickly.
Thank you, Mike. Always great to see you.
WALTERS: Absolutely.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Is it police brutality? Video appears to show several cops surrounding a teen and beating you know what out of him.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Escalating outrage over a shocking video that appears to show a pack of cops repeatedly throwing punches, kicking, stomping a teen burglary suspect while he`s face down and defenseless. Are these officers getting off easy?
And this Sunday you can go to church and talk about porn. What? That`s right. Hundreds of churches across the country are admitting there`s a porn epidemic in America. Is our addict nation out of control? I`ll talk to the pastor who`s leading the push against porn.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHAD HOLLEY, BEATING VICTIM: I was scared at first. Like I thought they was just going to handcuff me and then just put me in the car. But after that they just started kicking me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight, outrage sweeping through Houston and the nation after a shocking video released that shows Houston cops beating an unarmed teenage burglary suspect. Seven officers were fired for the beating. Four were indicted for official oppression. But after watching this video, you tell me if those charges are harsh enough.
Now, watch closely, cops chase 15-year-old burglary suspect Chad Holley. The car clips him. Holley falls down, it looks likes his hands are up and he`s surrendering. But then the beat-down starts. Look at the kicking right there -- kick, kick, kick -- and the stomping and the punching. Ok. It just goes on and on and on. Now, there`s the punching part.
Does it look like he`s resisting arrest to you? This actually happened way back in March, and we`re only seeing this video now. Houston community activist Quanell X obtained this video and released it to the public.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
QUANELL X, COMMUNITY ACTIVIST: I got the tape legally. So sit back and watch your television like everybody else in this city because we`re all going to see what`s going on.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: There`s a big controversy over him releasing the tape now. And another thing -- I`ve got to ask, what were these cops thinking? Don`t they realize there are cameras everywhere these days? It`s not like the old days. Cameras are all over the place -- this one from a storage facility.
Well, we have tonight activist Quanell X on the phone. He says the citizens of Houston had a right to see what is happening on their streets. So Quanell X, thank you for joining us. And I understand you`re also speaking out on behalf of the beating victim Chad Holley`s family.
So why did you release this videotape? What is the point you want to make?
QUENELL X (via telephone): First of all, thank you for having me. And the point I wanted to make is every citizen in this city, in this country has a constitutional right to see what happened on that videotape. These police officers are public servants in uniform. And public servants in uniform, they are paid by the taxpayers.
This tape was captured in public on video in uniform in the line of duty and so why should not the public be allowed to see public servants in uniform, in the line of duty and what they do?
I was threatened by many different individuals within the justice system in this city that if I released the tape I would be prosecuted. I prayed on it and once I got the tape legally I decided to allow the world to see it and to no longer allow the people to be kept in the dark, so they can see the behavior of these police officers.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Some are saying they fear this video release will jeopardize the officers` right to a face trial because they haven`t faced trial yet. What`s your reaction to that?
QUANELL X: We`ve had many high-profile cases in Houston and would allow pre-trial publicity. But they`ve always kept those cases here in Houston. And I believe that Houstonians and those who live in Harris County who will serve in the potential jury pool, you can find those who can weigh the facts in this case and then make a clear, sound critical judgment based on the (INAUDIBLE) publicity.
I think that was nothing more than a stunt to help contain the cover- up of keeping this tape in the dark and keeping the public in the dark of what took place with these police officers in this arrest.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, no cops were chasing Chad Holley after they caught him breaking into somebody`s home last March. Security cameras at the storage center caught this beating on tape. Here is Chad explaining what he says happened.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HOLLEY: After I got off the car and I landed on the ground, and then after that I started waving my hands like I was resisting arrest or something and they just started kicking me from there. And I blanked out.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did you ever resist arrest?
HOLLEY: No.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: We should mention that Chad was found guilty of burglary and sentenced to probation. He is now 16, and his family has filed a federal civil rights lawsuit against the Houston police department.
I want to go to Mike Brooks, HLN law enforcement analyst. Again, Quanell X was on the phone, said he had every right to release this videotape, that the public needs to see it, and he says he obtained it legally. What`s your take on this tape, what the officers are doing, and the release?
MIKE BROOKS, HLN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: First of all, Jane, as a former law enforcement officer for almost 27 years, I`m disgusted by the actions of these officers. And you know, it gives every police officer, law enforcement officer in the United States a black eye when people see this kind of thing and because you`re only supposed to use the amount of force that is necessary to maintain your arrest.
Is this excessive force? Absolutely. Should these officers have lost their jobs? Yes. Should they have been charged with more than official oppression, a misdemeanor? Well, I tell you what. If I was an investigator and I had someone who was kicked in the head by -- assaulted like that in Washington, D.C., I would have charged them with ADW, assault with a dangerous weapon, shod foot. That means a foot with a shoe on it. And that is a felony.
I think that there`s a good possibility that there could be additional charges. And I think that the FBI and the Justice Department will look into this for possible civil rights violations.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: There`s controversies on all sides because what critics are saying is what they were charged with is a misdemeanor with maximum of one year.
Was keeping this videotape under wraps some sort of cover-up by the powers that be? The Houston NAACP thinks so. Let`s listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
D.Z. COFIELD, PRESIDENT, NAACP HOUSTON BRANCH: While others were trying to cover it up and have managed to keep it out of public eye for almost two years, the truth is finally coming out.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Ok. Now, these four cops -- former cops now -- were indicted for official oppression in this beating. And as I just mentioned, Judge Greg Mathis, that is a misdemeanor punishable by a maximum of a year in jail. So there`s the controversy over the release of the videotape by Quanell X we have on the phone, there`s also the controversy over why weren`t they charged with more? Weigh in, Judge Mathis.
JUDGE GREG MATHIS, HOST, "JUDGE MATHIS": Absolutely. You know, they were kicking him in the head, as a matter of fact. And as such, they opened themselves up to attempted manslaughter because you can die with kicks to the head. Certainly a minimum they should have been charged with assault and battery.
So this case is disgusting. And for them to put a gag order on the release and the mayor participate in the attempted gag order shows that they really don`t trust the citizens of Houston to be fair. And I think that they should trust the citizens there in Houston to have an objective observation of those tapes and come to a fair conclusion at trial.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, prosecutors say they`re still confident they can get a fair trial for the four officers despite the release of the security camera video. But the lawyer for one of the fired but not indicted officers says this case was mishandled from the beginning. Let`s listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
AARON SUDER, ATTORNEY FOR GAUDENCIO SAUCEDO: All along they`ve treated these officers as one big group instead of judging them individually on their individual actions. And I think the chief`s testimony really bore that out. That that`s what he did, considered them as one big group, fired them as one big group, and still treats them as one big group. And that`s not right.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, former Officer Saucedo was fired, but he was never charged in the beating.
So I want to go to Jayne Weintraub, criminal defense attorney. This whole argument that oh, the release of this video is going to prevent the officers who were charged from getting a fair trial, does it hold water?
JAYNE WEINTRAUB, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, it does. And I`m sure that they`ll do polling and they`ll take, you know, very good consideration of potential jurors that come in and they`ll have to wait and see.
The question isn`t will it prejudice them? The question is based on what they`ve seen and heard can they put that aside and hear and see the evidence in the courtroom and weigh in fairly based on the evidence and the law.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: But I mean people see all sorts of things and they always find 12 people with a few alternates to say, well, I either didn`t see it or I can be fair --
(CROSSTALK)
WEINTRAUB: There are a lot of reasons --
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Why such controversy? Doesn`t it seem more like Quanell X has a point, that they were using that as an excuse to keep it quiet because this is a very inflammatory video and it`s causing them a big headache and they would like to keep it under wraps?
WEINTRAUB: That is exactly right, Jane. And I would like to say two other things. One is remember, this is only one case caught on video by this police department. Imagine how many other cases there are out there.
And the second thing is if this were the other way around and if it were the cops on -- I mean the kid on the cops, he`d be charged with attempted first degree murder, believe me.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`m going to give Quanell X the last word because you did get this videotape released -- your thoughts.
QUANELL X: Before I released the videotape I was threatened with prosecution and even the mayor publicly stated that if I released the tape I should be prosecuted. I still went (INAUDIBLE) released the tape knowing that her threat could be fulfilled.
It`s the public`s right not to live in a country to where something that`s caught on tape by public servants in the public, it should not be kept from them. The citizens of this country have the right and the constitutional right to see that tape. And that`s why I released it for the public to see.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Well, we`re going to stay on top of this. Thank you, Quanell X and the rest of our panel for joining us.
We want to remind you, Nancy Grace now airing from 8:00 to 10:00 p.m. Eastern Monday through Sunday. The second hour is "NANCY GRACE: AMERICA`S MISSING", Nancy trying to find 50 people in 50 days.
Tonight where is Kyron Horman? The 7-year-old vanished from Portland, Oregon back in June; watch "NANCY GRACE`S AMERICA MISSING" at 9:00 p.m. Eastern here on HLN.
All right. Up next, if you don`t have any plans this Sunday, you can go to church and talk about porn. That`s right. Hundreds of churches across the country admitting American men are struggling with porn addiction.
I`m going to talk to the pastor next who is leading this push against porn from the pulpit.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: My new book, "Addict Nation", in stores now. Have you battled an addiction? I want to hear your stories. Go to cnn.com/Jane and send them in.
Our winner tonight: Lenny from Los Angeles. Lenny started drinking and self-medicating at 15. Now he`s gotten his life together and is 23 years sober. He says it`s a struggle but he`s enjoying the ride. Bravo, Lenny. You`ve won a signed copy of my new book "Addict Nation".
Send me your stories about overcoming addiction to cnn.com/Jane and you could win a signed copy.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I would go home, and I would sit there, and the laptop and I would have a conversation. And I would battle with not even wanting to open it up, not even wanting to check e-mails because I knew where it might lead me.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I mean, you go to MSN or CNN or MSNBC and see, you know, this and it leads you to a link to this, and pretty soon I`m into this world that I never really knew existed.
CRAIG GROSS, FOUNDER, XXX CHURCH: If you`re a man that`s struggling and it`s in secret, let me tell you, this is the one thing in your life that I`m convinced of is holding you back from doing what God wants you to do, from being the leader in your family, from being the leader in your community.
It`s time that you step up as a man and say you know what; I`m going to deal with this. I`m going to get some help. I`m going to clean some of this stuff up. I`m going to do this today.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight church goes XXX. This Super Bowl Sunday there will be football, church, and let`s see, what else -- porn. That`s right.
A group called the XXX Church is sponsoring national Porn Sunday, a day to reach out and help porn and sex addicts get clean. XXX Church founder Craig Gross is shining a light on our nation`s addictions to porn and what he calls the elephant in the pew. He says if he threw all the sex addicts out of the pew the seats would be almost empty.
More than 300 churches across the country are taking part. I say bravo. Porn addiction is crippling millions of American men. Increasingly graphic imagery available at just the click of a mouse, it`s leading to extreme sexism and the degradation of women in our society.
I delve into porn and sex addiction in my new book "Addict Nation". You may not believe it, but an addiction to porn can give you the same rush and high as taking a hit of crack cocaine. Now, XXX Church`s supporters range from NFL superstars like Matt Hasselbeck to porn legend Ron Jeremy. Ron Jeremy, really? He`s comparing Gross to Jesus Christ himself, saying he`s the only pastor that shows up at porn conventions handing out bibles.
But how can we tackle this epidemic? That`s the question tonight. Straight out to Craig Gross, founder of XXXchurch.com -- kudos to you, I am so thrilled you`re taking this on. What`s your goal and point with Porn Sunday?
GROSS: Our goal is to raise awareness and to get people talking about a topic that is so tough to talk about. Like we said, it`s the elephant in the pews. So if we can get people talking about this subject and get people help, that`s the ultimate goal of Porn Sunday.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I`ve got to tell you this. In researching this, what was really, really scary is that I went on the internet and I timed myself, how long will it take me to get really, really graphic porn that involves extreme degradation of women. It took me about 1:15, Duncan Roy.
Now, you`re a former cast member of VH1`s "Sex Rehab with Dr. Drew", so presumably you were covering sex addicts. What was your relationship with porn, how deep did it go?
(CROSSTALK)
DUNCAN ROY, FORMER CAST MEMBER, VH1`S SEX REHAB WITH DR. DREW: Well, I was primarily a porn addict, so I sit in a room with Sex Addicts Anonymous right now with men whose lives have been totally destroyed by pornography.
Whether -- I think it`s great the work he`s doing, he`s doing it all because you know what somebody has to shine a light into this very dark and secretive and shameful area.
The problem is that whether you replace porn with Jesus is another problem. I think a lot of people feel alienated by the idea of Jesus in the bedroom or Jesus on their computer. What they really need is 12-step help. Anybody with a porn addiction or sex addiction needs 12-step help. And there can be no other way.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I agree with you there, Duncan, but I certainly don`t object to Pastor Gross bringing up the issue.
ROY: I agree. I agree. I think what he`s doing is brilliant.
(CROSSTALK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Pastor, what do you say to that, that Duncan Roy who himself is a recovering porn addict is saying the thing that works is the 12 steps, not finding Jesus, necessarily.
GROSS: You know what? That could be his opinion. I think -- I meet people all the time that don`t want anything to do with Jesus. They still come to our Web site and they still want help.
ROY: Yes.
GROSS: And so we`re doing this in church and obviously we think Jesus is a part of the equation. But beyond that, you need to talk to somebody else. The 12-step programs are great. We have some programs online. We have some weekend workshops, as well. You`ve got to do something else. You can`t just, you know, say a prayer and hope it`s all going to go away. You have to attack this --
ROY: But it`s not. I mean you know, the 12 steps are not about --
(CROSSTALK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: One at a time.
ROY: The 12 steps are not about just saying a prayer. The 12 steps are about working a rigorous, honest program with you and your family so you can get away from your addiction.
You know, I don`t think sitting in a church is necessarily would have ever helped me. Because you know what; my addiction is stronger than my love for God. And that`s what I needed. I needed help and I need rigorous honesty. And that`s what you need to do.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, let me get -- let me get some perspective on this. Because in researching this for my book, "Addiction Nation", I was just really fascinated by how porn has become so explosive.
You know back -- before the late `70s when VCRs came onto the scene, a lot of people were afraid to watch pornography, because they`d have to go to a movie theater and their friends and neighbors might see them. Then VCRs entered the scene and all of a sudden, guys could order whatever, "Debbie Does Dallas", or "Behind the Green Door" and they`d watch it at home.
Now the Internet is taking it to the next level and truly super-sizing porn and sex addiction. You can watch more porn, more graphic porn in one day than you could experience with real-life flesh and blood partners in an entire year.
Michelle Truax, you mentored the porn stars at XXX Church. I know porn is horribly degrading to these women, even though in our post-feminist age we would like to pretend that they`re all liberated and they`re doing this for fun. It isn`t true, is it, Michelle?
MICHELLE TRUAX, XXX CHURCH: It`s not true. You know, over a period of time for those that do end up staying in longer than they ever expected, they become hardened, they become desensitized and they become a mess. It is a long process of recovery for them, as well.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, I have to go back to one other thing. You have this program, Pastor Gross, that says that a guy who is scared about porn can type in something and any time he goes to porn it e-mails the wife or - - that`s -- I don`t know about that one, Pastor.
GROSS: Ok, it`s called X3Watch (ph). It`s a free accountability. We have over a million people using it on PCs, on Macs, on Androids, on iPhones. And what it is, is you sign up for this and put in an accountability partner. My best friend Jake Larson, my wife Jeannette (ph), they get e-mails about anything questionable that I would see on line.
ROY: I think that`s a great idea.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I love what you`re doing but I draw the line there.
GROSS: No, it`s a great thing.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: You can`t treat the people like --
(CROSSTALK)
ROY: Jane, it`s a great idea.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: You like it? All right. Maybe I`m wrong.
GROSS: He likes it. It`s a great thing.
(CROSSTALK)
ROY: I think it`s a great idea.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let`s fight for it, however we`re going to fight it. Thank you panel.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Look at that. That beautiful animal crashes to the ground as it tries to escape U.S. government helicopters; just another day in these horrific controversial wild horse roundups conducted by the Bureau of Land Management. Tonight, more evidence that the BLM doesn`t really want to find a humane solution to these roundups.
I know that because a group headed by animal welfare activist Madeleine Pickens brought almost 20,000 acres of land in Nevada specifically so these creatures could roam free in an eco sanctuary. But the government reportedly has said it doesn`t want the horses to go there. What? That`s insanity.
Despite being offered a solution, they would rather round up the horses, keep them by the tens of thousands in cramped holding pens and continue these cruel, inhumane tactics?
Look at these holding pens. Wouldn`t they be better off in an eco- sanctuary? Of course, and guess who`s paying for these pens -- millions and millions of dollars every year? You and me, the taxpayer.
Straight out to one of my heroes, Madeleine Pickens, founder of savingamericasmustangs.org; Madeleine, you and your husband, who`s T. Boone Pickens, a very famous man, bought all this hand to help these beautiful animals and the reports were the government turned you down.
I know you have some breaking news on that front right now that`s just coming in. Tell us what you know, Madeleine.
MADELEINE PICKENS, SAVINGAMERICASMUSTANGS.ORG: Well, I went to Washington last week, and I met with Bob Abbey and he --
VELEZ-MITCHELL: He`s the head of the BLM.
PICKENS: He is. He`s in charge of all of this under Secretary Salazar. He said actually no, they`re not going to turn down the plan. But what`s disturbing to me is that, you know, I bought 18,500 acres and with that we have another 550,000 acres of public lands that we also have.
So I said to them, let`s create this as an eco-sanctuary, and they turned around and said guess what? We`re going to gather the horses from your land. And I said, why am I buying this land to create an eco-sanctuary if you`re going to gather the horses?
I made a proposal I said I`ll do anything. Whatever you want, I`ll make corrals, you can gather them, we can treat them with PTP a fertility drug and put them back on their homeland because they know where all the water is, and it`s familiar territory to them where the feed is.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: What did they say, these government bureaucrats, Mr. Bob Abbey?
PICKENS: He said no, it`s already been decided, we`re doing the gather. You need to understand a gather cost the taxpayer $1 million. But it`s the $17 million that it costs to run the program.
(CROSSTALK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: It`s millions and millions.
This next video breaks my heart. It shows these horses being chased practically to death. Take a look at this, BLM helicopters are herding this older mare and she just collapses on the ground. She`s probably been running for miles, she can`t move any farther. She can`t even get up.
Madeleine, why do they insist on doing this when you said that you will take these horses and put them on your land? Ten seconds.
PICKENS: Well, here`s the problem is they say one thing and they do another. Because they can`t think fast enough. You know, change is very difficult for them. They`ve been doing it. You know, 100 years ago, we had 2 million mustangs roaming the plains. We`re down to the last 30,000. I mean that`s extinction.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Thank you, Madeleine. If you want to get involved: savingamericasmustangs.org.
END
