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American Morning

Thousands Gather in Cairo for "Day of Departure"; Kenneth Cole's Twitter Trouble; Verizon to Slow Data Hog Speeds; Egypt's Day of Departure; College for All?; NOLA Exodus; Study: 32 Percent Mooch Neighbor's Wi-Fi; Super Bowl "Prop Bets"; A Tale of Two Quarterbacks

Aired February 04, 2011 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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T.J. HOLMES, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): Good morning. Happening right now, Cairo once again bracing for more chaos. Protesters once again cramming back into the city's main square, and they are vowing not to go anywhere until the president does on this AMERICAN MORNING.

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HOLMES (on-camera): Hello to you all on this Friday, February 4th. Welcome to this AMERICAN MORNING. I'm T.J. Holmes.

KIRAN CHETRY, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Kiran Chetry. Glad you're with us this morning. We're following the latest developments today in Egypt. It's being dubbed the day of departure there. Protesters packing the streets of Cairo and want Hosni Mubarak to be the one who depart as their president for 30 years. They're calling for him to leave office.

Let's get to Ivan Watson in Cairo for us. If you can just set the scene for us. We witnessed yesterday some pretty intense crackdowns on journalists that were trying to cover the story. What is the situation today in terms of safety, and also in terms of the numbers of the crowd?

IVAN WATSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: An incredible turn around here in Cairo central Tahrir Square. For the past two days and two nights, Kiran, this has been the scene of a bloody battle where I didn't think I would escape alive from here as pro-government demonstrators were attacking and battling at barricades protecting the square anti-government demonstrators.

But this morning, as the sun rose on Friday, this day of prayer in Islam, the pro-government demonstrators were gone, and thousands of people have been coming in to join the bandaged and bruised veterans of those two days and nights of fighting for what has become, instead of a war zone, instead of the sight of a siege, a political rally, joyous, with music and clapping and dancing and flag waving, calling for the ouster of President Hosni Mubarak.

A remarkable change of scene after what had been really nearly 48 hours of bloody fighting that led to the wounding of more than 800 people and by official government statistics, the deaths of at least eight people here. Kiran?

CHETRY: And Ivan, just explain. Is it just an increase of protection by the Egyptian military, and also have the pro Mubarak supporters and in some cases people were saying perhaps police and others, stood down? Have they stopped these attacks?

WATSON: What we saw, Kiran, was before dawn this morning, truck loads of additional Egyptian troops coming in wearing riot control gear, helmets and masks and visors, and they have set up in much larger numbers on foot in the areas outside of the opposition- controlled barricades around Tahrir Square.

And when we approached those soldiers, they treated us journalists politely, checked our passports, said "Welcome to Egypt," a remarkable changed scene from 48 hours when journalists were being hunted and beaten by supporters of the Mubarak government.

And that has allowed us to move into this area safely. We feel safe among the opposition demonstrators who clearly want their message to get to the outside world. We have not seen, since the sun rose over this part of Cairo, the government supporters who have been engaged in those bloody clashes around the barricades for two days and two nights.

We have heard reports, however, that supporters of the Mubarak government have been gathering at another mosque in another upscale neighborhood of Cairo to conduct their own Friday prayers and to hold what they are calling a "day of loyalty."

And the Grand Mufti of Cairo has come out on state television calling these two rival camps, one which calls this "freedom Friday" or "day of departure," and the other camp which calls this "day of loyalty," to put aside their differences and think about the future of Egypt instead. Kiran?

CHETRY: We see change from what you're describing today versus yesterday and Wednesday. Ivan Watson, thanks so much.

He talked about some of the crackdowns that were taking place, but certainly some graphic images were getting out on social media showing the extreme brutality of what was happening on the streets yesterday and Wednesday.

And we're going to play a video that was posted on the web. We do want to warn you it is disturbing. It shows someone being run over. It happens very quickly, a fire truck speeding into the picture from out of nowhere, mowing a man down. He has no time to dive out of the way. A crowd gathers around. You hear them shrieking, rushing him away. And again, we do not know what happened to him after that.

HOLMES: We do know that so many journalists have been targeted and it's making it more and more difficult and dangerous, as you heard from Ivan Watson, to get this story out. Our own Anderson Cooper one of the journalists who got caught up in the melee, attacked on two occasions. On Wednesday he was punched in the head several times. He and his crew were able to escape that attack. Then yesterday, his car was attacked, a window was punched in. Everyone, once again, is doing OK.

Journalists have had to resort to tweeting, including our own Anderson. Listen to this one, quote, "Situation on ground in Egypt very tense. Vehicle I was in attacked. My window smashed. All OK."

And listen to this one. It really stirred a lot of people in our newsroom when we read this from ABC's Brian Hartman. It says, quote, "Just escaped after being carjacked at a checkpoint and driven to a compound where men surrounded the car and threatened to behead us. One man who swore to kill us wore police uniform. Mubarak banner over the scene, but anger at perceived media bias was genuine," end quote.

Meanwhile the state media there in Egypt has reported the military has rescued 18 journalists seized by thugs, saying the military took them into custody for their own safety. No names were mentioned, CNN not able to confirm that report. The U.S. state department, in particular the Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, condemning the attacks on journalists.

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HILLARY CLINTON, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: We condemn in the strongest terms attacks on reporters covering the ongoing situation in Egypt. This is a violation of international norms that guarantee freedom of the press and it is unacceptable under any circumstances.

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HOLMES: Our Jill Dougherty is live at the state department this morning. Jill, good morning to you once again. Is the state department, is the secretary of state, saying directly who they believe gave the orders to do this systemic attack on journalists?

JILL DOUGHERTY, CNN FOREIGN AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Behind the scenes on background they have said they do have information that connects the Ministry of Interior to those attacks on journalists. But on camera, publicly, they're being more nuanced. They're not going that far. Let's listen to what P.J. Crowley, State Department spokesman, said yesterday in the briefing.

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P.J. CROWLEY, STATE DEPARTMENT SPOKESMAN: There are very strong indications this is part of a concerted effort. I can't tell you who is directing it, but with the increasing number of instances of people roughed up, journalists' cars attacked, offices broken into, journalists detained, these do not seem to be random events.

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DOUGHERTY: Crowley also said that this is coordinated, appears to be coordinated by elements close to the government or the ruling party. And also, T.J., we spoke to the Egyptian ambassador, and he's denying that the government sanctioned this at all. He said they condemn it. But he did talk about a vacuum of power in which things like this can happen. HOLMES: Their response is they're denying it but saying there's a vacuum of power, whatever that may mean. We have a list here as well of all the journalists and nongovernmental workers that have been attacked here.

One other thing we want to get an update on, while I have you here, Americans who are trying to get out. There was an effort under way over the past several days to get any American citizen out that wanted to. Are those flights that were coordinated by the state department still running?

DOUGHERTY: No. In fact, today, Friday, they have stopped those mainly because there's not enough demand. They're ready to put more on. They're assessing the situation, you know, hour to hour, but today, there are none scheduled.

That said, they are saying that if Americans do want to get out, and can make their way safely to the airport in Cairo, they should do that, avoiding demonstrations, observing curfews, go to the airport, and they are more than willing to assess as we go on to get people out.

HOLMES: All right, our Jill Dougherty for us from the state department, we appreciate the update, Jill. Thanks so much.

CHETRY: Meantime White House officials are also stepping up the pressure and apparently doing a lot behind the scenes to speed up the negotiations and the transition of power in Egypt. Top members of the Obama administration say that the president wants Hosni Mubarak out as soon as possible. And talks are ongoing with Egyptian officials about how to make that transition smooth for a new government with many factions of the opposition all getting a seat at the table.

Kate Bolduan is live for us at the White House this morning. There hasn't been a lot said publicly about the situation, but any progress to report?

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: They're definitely being careful to craft the message. And I would say that White House and the Obama administration, Kiran, they are ramping up the pressure, albeit carefully.

But in these situations as we have seen, every nuance, every evolution of a phrase of a message means a lot and carries a lot of weight. What they're really trying to do, they continue to try to get that orderly transition of power in Egypt going and they want to have it get going immediately.

Some of the ways they're doing that, there are a lot of high level talks going on between officials in the U.S. as well as to officials in the U.S. to officials in Egypt, one of those being Vice President Biden. He spoke with his now counterpart the new vice president of Egypt, Omar Suleiman, in a phone call yesterday.

And in part they gave us a read out in part the vice president, we're told, urged that credible inclusive negotiations begin immediately in order for Egypt to transition to a democratic government that addresses the aspirations of the Egyptian people.

But so far, it seems very clear that getting that dialog going, getting those negotiations going between all parties that they want to be at the table seems to be slow to start at best. And one senior official telling my colleague at the State Department that everyone here needs to really get to it and to really roll up their sleeves.

But publicly, again, Kiran, they're being very careful to craft their message. Publicly the Obama administration and President Obama are not coming out to call on President Mubarak to step down. They're walking a very fine line and saying that they want him to transition out of power sooner rather than later in order to get this transitional government in place to work for democratic reforms.

Again, they continue to toe the line of their messages, the future of Egypt is in the hands of the Egyptian people. It's getting all parties to the table seems to be the most difficult task at hand.

CHETRY: Right, and Mubarak still not changing his stance that he has to stay, even though he's willing to relinquish power in September. Kate Bolduan for us, thanks so much.

HOLMES: New this morning, Mark Kelly has got a tough decision to make. Of course, he's the husband of Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords, and some would say right now he appears to be leaning towards serving as commander for the final flight of the shuttle Endeavour. "Politico" is now reporting that Kelly will make an announcement at a NASA press conference today.

We caught up with him yesterday and he said he has a decision to make able flying in April but it's not going to just depend on him. It has to depend on other people involved in his decision as well. He has to start the training here pretty soon, so that's why his decision needs to be made now for the April flight.

CHETRY: You know you're not supposed to text and drive. You shouldn't try to walk and play a portable game either. This was a close call for a 10-year-old boy. Take a look at this video. We'll re-rack it again for you. He's OK, but he literally walked off the subway platform. This happened in Italy. A police officer was nearby and pulled him to safety and was helped up by other bystanders.

The kid, when we show it again, was literally playing the game and just fell right off on to the tracks. It was before the train arrived and he appeared to be OK.

HOLMES: So many things to distract us these days. We're not paying attention, folks.

Well, we'll turn to the deep south once again, still dealing with some nasty weather, including icy roads in Louisiana. We've been saying as well, so many parts of the country getting weather they're not used to. Not used to a lot of ice and snow in some parts of the south, including here in Louisiana. A 15-car pileup on I-5 northwest of New Orleans, just a couple minor injuries there to report. But it seems like this playing out in many places. CHETRY: You don't think you need a lot of salt and snow removal in New Orleans. This year, it's different.

HOLMES: When you need it, you need it.

CHETRY: It's 13 minutes past the hour.

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CHETRY: Still ahead on "AMERICAN MORNING," Kenneth Cole prides himself in his shocking advertising slogans, but he may have gone too far this time when he used the crisis in Egypt to promote his spring collection via Twitter. We'll explain what happened.

HOLMES: Also, just 40 percent of high school student go on to get a college degree. But a new Harvard study out there says some people, and maybe your kids, parents, are not cracked up to go to college. We'll have one of the study's coauthors with us this morning.

It's 15 minutes past the hour.

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CHETRY: Seventeen minutes past the hour now. They may be the biggest crowds we have seen yet in Tahrir Square in Cairo. Over the past two weeks, the sea of protesters today gathering for what's being called the "day of departure." Friday prayers ended about an hour ago and now we have images that the Egyptian government does not want you to see. Journalists, in fact, rounded up off the streets in two days of strong arm tactics, some of them beaten even hospitalized.

James Rubin is a former assistant Secretary of state. He is now the executive editor of "The Bloomberg View," overseeing editorials put out by the Bloomberg News Service and he joins me this morning. Thanks so much for being with us.

JAMES RUBIN, EXECUTIVE EDITOR, "THE BLOOMBERG VIEW": Nice to be with you.

CHETRY: First, I just want to ask you about policy because it looks like U.S. officials have been working behind the scenes on ways as they're calling it move the process forward. No outright calls right now for Hosni Mubarak to leave, although it's clearly what the United States thinks is probably in the best interest of Egypt right now. Where do we go now today as we're preparing for yet another huge massive protest? It doesn't appear that the citizens of Egypt are going to be accepting of him saying he's staying until September.

RUBIN: Well, I think you're right and I think today is an extremely important day. I think the Mubarak regime used all the tricks of the trade they could, the police tactics, the protesters, supporting Mubarak using violence, the rounding up of some journalists, to try to change the momentum, to try to build the argument that chaos was now the enemy rather than the Mubarak regime. And I think they failed, and the massive turnout today makes clear that there are hundreds of thousands, if not millions of Egyptians, who really want to see a change. Although many may regard the decision by Mubarak to step down in September as sufficient, I don't think they trust that it will happen. And so they're determined to see real change, namely him stepping down, before they stop their demonstrations. And by coming out in this large numbers today after all we've seen over the last 24 hours, I think it really is the end for Mubarak. He's going to have to step down.

CHETRY: And this is also interesting that we have you, because not only are you an expert on the policy issues of this, you're also married to Christiane Amanpour from ABC, our former colleague and dear friend.

She had a chance to talk to Mubarak yesterday. She was the first one to actually get him on the record about this, and he basically said, which is interesting, that he would not step down because he thinks it would lead to more chaos and he also said that we don't understand or President Obama doesn't understand the way Egypt works. If he were to leave, it would be a catastrophe.

RUBIN: Well, yes.

CHETRY: How do you view that?

RUBIN: Well, yes.

CHETRY: I mean, is that true?

RUBIN: No. I think it's not true that there would be chaos. I think steps need to be put in place to ensure that there is -- what the administration has been calling an orderly transition. But I think if you look at what President Mubarak said to my wife, your former colleague, now at ABC News, and what the vice president said in his interview also with my wife and with Egyptian television, you have a kind of paternalistic society. You may have seen the vice president say -- regard the protesters as children and say we're going to appeal to their parents to have them come home. And then Christiane said, well, but some of them are parents. And then he said OK, grandparents.

They basically believe the protesters are their young people and they are a paternalistic society. The young people have given us a message. We've made our changes. Now will you all go home and go back to school. Metaphorically.

CHETRY: Right.

RUBIN: And so I think what they're going to realize today is that the protesters have made a decision that they are going to stay on the streets in massive numbers. They are going to bring Egypt to a halt, and there is not going to be an economy or a tourist industry or an ability for Egypt to recover from this difficulty until they see the concrete sign of President Mubarak actually handing over power. And this is where it gets complicated. The constitution would say he has to hand over power to the speaker of the parliament. And so some mechanisms are going to have to be developed to deal with the fact that I think if he does that, it would be to Vice President Suleiman. And so it's a lawyer's mess over there right now, but I think the political reality is now clear. Today's turnout means President Mubarak now has to step down.

CHETRY: And hopefully a safer situation for people trying to bring this news out to the world.

RUBIN: I hope so.

CHETRY: We've seen a change today, but the last two days have been very --

RUBIN: For your colleagues and all the other journalists --

CHETRY: Absolutely.

RUBIN: -- maybe they'll see, they just can't stop it. They tried but they can't.

CHETRY: James Rubin, great to talk to you as always. Thanks so much for being with us this morning.

RUBIN: Thank you.

CHETRY: All right, T.J., take it away.

HOLMES: All right. Twenty-one minutes past the hour here now. As you may have heard, Verizon is about to get the new iPhone, but there's a warning out there for you data hogs. Be prepared for life in the slow lane. We'll explain this to you coming up.

Also you know by now, of course, the Super Bowl is coming up just a couple days. Tale of two quarterbacks. Some pitting the good versus the evil. We'll explain and talk about it with our Mark McKay. Stay with us on this AMERICAN MORNING.

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HOLMES: Twenty-five minutes past the hour now on this AMERICAN MORNING. Kenneth Cole having to issue an apology after a tweet to promote some of its spring line. The problem here is that tweet made light of what was happening in Egypt. Christine Romans, "Minding Your Business," and this is one of those classic cases you can't take it back once you hit send.

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Boy, 140 characters or less on Twitter, boy, really got this company and this chairman of this company, Kenneth Cole, in trouble. Tweeting a promotion, not just making light of the situation in Egypt, but in fact trying to promote the spring line by using the uprising in Egypt.

This is what Kenneth Cole himself tweeted. Millions are in uproar in Cairo. Rumor is they heard our new spring collection is now available on-line at -- and then you can click right there to go to the link to see their spring collection.

About an hour later, however, when the Internet was in an uproar, people were saying this is absolutely ridiculous, how could they do this, Re: Egypt tweet, we weren't intending to make light of a serious situation. We understand the sensitivity of this historic moment. KC.

Now, Kenneth Cole really promoting its wears and then promoting an uproar actually over its wears on-line. One thing that's interesting is this is a company who has taken edgy advertising campaigns before. For example --

CHETRY: And taken social positions.

ROMANS: Absolutely on HIV/AIDS, on other things. After the gulf oil spill, they had a picture of the gulf oil spill in an advertising with the text "I clean up well" and then they were selling t-shirts but the proceeds went to charity to help clean up the oil spill. When the plane landed on the Hudson, the miracle on the Hudson, they had a big billboard that they put up that said "in tough times some land on their feet, others on the Hudson." So this play on words is something they've done before. This one bombed.

CHETRY: However, did it bomb? I mean, didn't their stock price go up?

ROMANS: The stock price was up yesterday. Certainly they're getting a lot of buzz and people are talking about it. I'm not sure they're selling shoes because of this. T This is -- they're getting a lot of attention because of it, but the backlash from people on-line has been really incredible.

CHETRY: Right.

He, in fact, had to go further with more because people didn't just accept that tweet.

ROMANS: No, no.

CHETRY: He had to actually issue a statement after that.

ROMANS: On his Facebook page, a very long statement explaining that he's been very -- he really takes a lot of social issues very seriously. He did not mean to make light of that situation at a time when journalists, including our own, were being beaten quite frankly.

I will quickly want to give you a morning market check for today, too, because we've been watching the Dow and trying to see if it's going to stay above 12,000. It did yesterday, up about 20 points at 12,062. Hey, that's not a lot, but it's still holding above that nice, big round number. The Nasdaq and the S&P were higher as well. Today, the only thing that matters is the jobs report in two hours and three minutes.

CHETRY: And they want --

ROMANS: In one hour and three minutes. Oh, my goodness. I'll be late.

HOLMES: OK.

CHETRY: DVR the jobs. But they want it to be 150,000, right?

ROMANS: They're thinking, although I have seen an estimate down there for a job loss of 5,000 blaming the weather. So we'll see if there could be something tricky in those numbers. They're looking for 150,000 is the consensus, yes.

HOLMES: Christine, thank you.

ROMANS: You're welcome.

CHETRY: On the same day that Verizon customers could order the new iPhone, the wireless carrier delivered a warning to its heaviest data users. It has the right to slow down your download speed. Is that what you want to hear?

Verizon says that the slowdown would most likely occur during peak hours. The iPhone has a reputation of being a so-called data hog, putting a strain on AT&T and its network. Even though you can possibly buy it from Verizon now.

HOLMES: What? Is it next Friday?

CHETRY: Next Friday.

HOLMES: This thing is coming out?

CHETRY: Yes.

Are you switching?

HOLMES: Not at all. Not after that story.

CHETRY: Coming up on AMERICAN MORNING, a new winter storm spanning several states, not the states you would expect and not the states who expect to have to deal with ice and snow.

HOLMES: Also, a hostage drama on a bus? We'll tell you what happened here and how police had to step in and put an end to this.

It's 29 minutes past the hour on this AMERICAN MORNING.

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CHETRY: In town for the Super Bowl? Dallas looks like right now. A shot of Dallas-Ft. Worth Airport. They got another storm, picked up another five inches and it was still snowing when we last checked.

Jacqui is going to have the full forecast for us in a moment. But boy, very unseasonable. She said it's supposed to be about 53 this time of year and it was 22.

HOLMES: Supposed to get nicer this weekend, I do believe.

CHETRY: Hopefully. Meantime, good morning. I'm Kiran Chetry, here along with T.J. Holmes. Glad you're with us this morning at 31 minutes past the hour.

HOLMES: And we are once again keeping a close eye on Tahrir Square in Cairo. It is once again overflowing with people. They are shoulder to shoulder in there right now, but we have not seen the outbreaks of violence that have really plagued the square over the past couple of days. Today is being billed as a day of departure, and, of course, the person they want to depart is President Mubarak. They say they're not leaving until he does. The difference also today, many members of the military are there keeping an eye on things.

CHETRY: And a deep freeze in the deep south. This is a winter storm making travel treacherous in places like Texas. There you see from the radar picture, Louisiana, Arkansas, the streets in Dallas iced over. Temperatures in the teens ahead of Sunday's Super Bowl.

HOLMES: Also, there was a hostage drama in North Carolina. A bus there where a man got on and made the driver pull over near Raleigh. This man had a gun. 33 other people were on board and were allowed to get off. The driver, the gunman, and two passengers stayed on. He held those folks as hostages. Made them continue on to a nearby gas station. Police ended up using a stun gun on the suspect. Still waiting on word of what prompted the suspect to do this in the first place.

CHETRY: And we have more on our top story. Right now, the crisis in Egypt. Here's a look at what may be some of the largest crowds we've seen over the past two weeks. Cairo's Tahrir Square overflowing. A sea of protesters, all gathered for what is being called the day of departure. Referring to their president of 30 years, Hosni Mubarak. They want him to depart.

Ben Wedeman is live for us in Cairo this morning. He joins us on the phone. As I understand it you had a chance to go out there. It's been told to us this morning that it's a very different scene from the violence and the chaos of the past two days. What are you seeing out there today, Ben?

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (on the phone): I'm seeing tens of thousands, perhaps more than 100,000 people, have come back to Tahrir Square and it's a very peaceful atmosphere. People are going around chanting, singing, but there is no sign of these pro government over the last two days that so viciously attacked the protesters.

One regular army soldiers that are now surrounding the square, paratroopers, elite troops, who are keeping away anybody who might be coming here to (INAUDIBLE) trouble. Very rigorous system of (INAUDIBLE) checks and body searches. (INAUDIBLE) They're looking for any sort of weaponry that might be used. In fact just a few minutes ago, somebody from Amnesty International who said that the protesters security organizations that's here, yesterday found 150 people whose I.D.s showed that they were with the police, plain clothed, but with the police, and they believe they've come here to stir trouble against the protesters.

But today very peaceful, very upbeat and determined atmosphere. People are going to stay in this square at the heart of Cairo until President Mubarak, who has been in power for 29 1/2 years, steps down from power.

CHETRY: All right. Ben Wedeman for us this morning, you've been out there among the crowds and very different picture today, just from yesterday and the day before, when we saw so much violence taking place. Thank you, Ben.

HOLMES: Also coming up next on this "American Morning" -- college is not for everybody. It may not be for your child. So says a Harvard study that says we're putting too much emphasis on college prep. One of the co-authors of that study is going to be along here with us live coming up next.

Also, are you putting your money on the Steelers or are you putting it on the Packers? I'm putting my money on how long Christina Aguilera will hold that last note in the national anthem. The side bet madness. It's 35 minutes past the hour.

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HOLMES: Well, 38 minutes past the hour now. There is a brand new study that will get you talking, it's a Harvard study just released suggesting that college is not for everybody, maybe not for your child. It questions the value of college for all that we seem to teach and it says we should emphasize training kids for jobs that don't maybe require a four-year degree.

One of the study's co-author is Robert Schwartz, the academic dean and professor of Harvard's Graduate School of Education. He joins us this morning from Boston. Sir, thank you so much for being here and part of the study focuses on a realistic path to employability is what you all call it here. So are you willing to tell some parents who are listening this morning that it might not be realistic for their child to go to a four-year college?

ROBERT SCHWARTZ, HARVARD GRADUATE SCHOOL OF EDUCATION: No, I'm not willing to tell parents that. I think this is an issue where parents and young people themselves need to make choices. You know, the thing that really touched off this study was that about 20 years ago, there was a report called the "Forgotten Half" and at that time, we used to divide kids into those that were college bound and those who were not and about half of the kids were kind of dismissed, if you will, as not college bound, not college material and the study really showed what a devastating effect that sorting of kids really had.

So we wanted to come back and take a look and ask, how are we doing now 20 years later? And one of the things that we discovered is although we think we've made a lot of progress in education over these last 20 years, if you look at the kind of bottom line question of what proportion of kids by their mid 20s have a college degree, either a bachelor's degree or an associate's degree, it's still only about 40 percent.

And, you know, our big question is, while we clearly need to keep raising that percentage and various organizations in our country have set ambitious growth targets, we still have this question of well, OK, suppose we can get half of our kids through with a college degree, what about the other half? So that's really what our jumping off point is.

When you look at the way in which the economy is moving, clearly people need skills. As the president has said, we need every young person to get some kind of a post-secondary credential, whether it's through an apprenticeship program, certificate program, training program of what kind of another. But it may not require all kids to go to a four-year institution.

HOLMES: But some hear that and sounds like to some, that we're telling them, you know what, maybe you shouldn't shoot for the stars. Maybe it's OK for you and our perception to underachieve. We consider that bachelor of arts or that four-year college degree, so much more prestigious than the vocational degree or two year associate's degree.

SCHWARTZ: You're right about that. But I have to say, I mean I've spent much of the last 15 years as a leader, really, within the movement to raise academic standards and expectations for all kids. I think we have made progress doing that. I think, particularly as the country moves toward common high expectations for all kids, that's only a plus.

I'm not for having people reduce their expectations on what kids can do. We're certainly not advocating that young people reduce their expectations. But the question is, by the time kids get to be 16 or 17, shouldn't they have some choices and shouldn't we be able to give kids enough information about various kinds of careers and various kinds of pathways in order to enable them and their families to make choices. Schools shouldn't be making choices on behalf of young people.

HOLMES: Giving them those choices.

(CROSSTALK)

SCHWARTZ: I'm sorry.

HOLMES: Isn't our problem, even if you give them those choices, isn't our problem that we're not preparing the kids for college? No matter what, if they go into plumbing right after high school, if they go into whatever after high school, shouldn't they all be prepared, at least, to go to a four-year college even if they don't choose it? You want a smart mechanic, you want a smart plumber, you want a smart hairdresser.

SCHWARTZ: And that's the reason why as a country we've been moving trying to create common high expectations and standards to equip everybody with a foundation of knowledge and skills to be able to keep on learning. The bottom line is, in this society if you're going to thrive and survive, you have to have the skills to keep on learning.

The question is, whether or not -- I mean, I think we need to listen to young people. I mean why is it that one young person in four doesn't even complete high school, why is it that nearly half of the young people who start college, don't complete. I think part of the reason is, that for those people who drop out of high school, you know, before graduation, if all they see in front of them is college, and if we keep saying college, college, college, and if people think that college means sitting in classrooms, if you're bored and disengaged already, that's not very appealing.

Much of our report focuses on looking at what higher performing countries in Europe do, and there, let me give you the example, the highest performing country in Europe is Finland and in Finland, as in most of the other central and northern European countries, by the age of 16, anywhere between 40 and 70 percent of kids are choosing to be in programs that mix classroom learning and work-base learning. That's what we think Americans need to look at.

HOLMES: Mr. Schwartz, I find that the study fascinating. We have so much work to do in education. I would really like to have you back. There's so much more I want to discuss with you and more in this conversation I certainly like to have and get out to our viewers. So I hope to call on you again but thank you so much for your time and your help this morning.

SCHWARTZ: My pleasure.

HOLMES: Again, Robert Schwartz, academic dean of professors at Harvard Graduate School. I'm going to try to post that study for you all up on our Twitter and Facebook pages here so you all can get a look at it as well. Some fascinating stuff this morning, Kiran.

CHETRY: And a lot of good points as well. We'll see what people think of it. Thanks, T.J..

Coming up next on "American Morning," it is the digital equivalent, I guess, of borrowing a cup of sugar from your neighbor, but you just don't ask. You mooch the wi-fi. It happens more often than you think.

Also, a very snowy start to your morning in Dallas today, Jacqui Jeras will be along with the travel forecast right after the break. 45 minutes past the hour.

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CHETRY: It's 47 minutes past the hour. Time to check our top stories this morning. There are new census figures showing that New Orleans lost almost a third of its population over the last decade.

The city is, of course, still trying to recover from the devastation caused by Hurricane Katrina back in 2005, which prompted mass migration, 343,000 people are now living in New Orleans, that's a 29 percent drop since the last head count during the census of 2000. There's also a new study out saying that 32 percent of Americans admit they steal their neighbor's Wi-Fi that's nearly double the number of people said they were doing it in 2008. Officials with the Wi-Fi Alliance that commissioned the survey say a lot of people haven't taken the computer security steps you need to protect yourself.

HOLMES: They put a name to the turkey attacking a mail truck on Cape Cod. It's a Kennedy, 82-year-old Ethel Kennedy claims the rogue bird is one of two her son brought to the family compound in Hyannisport this past Thanksgiving. It managed to escape and see what happens, she says the children spent three days chasing it around the neighborhood before it disappeared and resurfaced on a mail truck.

CHETRY: I would be mad too if they were trying to make me dinner. Got out and he's fighting back.

HOLMES: The mail guy didn't do anything.

CHETRY: He doesn't know if he's dropping of trimmings for the next, you know, Thanksgiving.

We're 48 minutes past the hour. A check of the morning weather headlines. Jacqui Jeras is in Atlanta. Turkeys can live for years and years it if they weren't your dinner.

JACQUI JERAS, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Right, but the problem is they taste so good.

CHETRY: Yes. A problem.

JERAS: I know. And they put you to sleep, right. They'll be doing turkey drum sticks, isn't that the big thing at the Super Bowl?

CHETRY: They walk around with the big turkey legs.

JERAS: You know, they're going to need something to keep them warm in Texas. Things are nasty all over the place across parts of the south as this winter storm is bringing heavy snow, freezing rain and ice.

We're looking at showers and thundershowers as we head into parts of the Carolinas and even flood watches in effect for Atlanta. We've got five inches of snow on the ground in Dallas. We've got freezing rain, shutting down interstates, including parts of I-10 in Houston, parts of I-35 shut down in central parts of Texas as well.

Dallas Love Field, runways are closed there. Operational at DFW right nowM but there have been lots of cancellations. That's a look at DFW right now. You can see the tarmac is just covered in snow and ice. Five inches, that's a record by far. I think the record today was about a tenth of an inch.

Corpus Christi also closed by the way and that's because they've been dealing with some of that freezing rain. Now more delays are expected throughout the day today, and we're focusing mostly on parts of the south and the southeast, but we could have a couple delays as well in Chicago. They're still kind of recovering from some of the snow and ice.

The winds are blowing over those runways. Now where is our storm going? This thing is going to be tracking up to the north and the east. Watch out mid-Atlantic and into the northeast for tomorrow. It will be out of here though by the weekends so that's a little bit good news.

And this storm is nothing compared to the few that you've had into the northeast, but I will mention just a little bit that the models -- something really big for the middle to latter part of next week. That's the latest on the forecast at CNN AMERICAN MORNING. We'll be right back.

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HOLMES: Well, about seven minutes to the top of the hour here. Ten billion dollars, that's how much is estimated will be bet on the Super Bowl. Half of those bets though have nothing to actually do with football. Like this, Christina Aguilera singing the national anthem. There's a bet on how long the song will take.

Over/under is 1:56 and the final note even, brave, the over/under is at six seconds. How many times Fox announcers will announce former Packer Brett Favre's name? Over/under two-and-a-half and bet on TV rate WGS the Super Bowl with Pittsburgh or Green Bay will have the higher rating.

CHETRY: And also on the MVP -- what about the other players? Don't you think that is a good one? I want to thank my teammates.

HOLMES: Thank your teammates.

CHETRY: Because you're the MVP and you say it wasn't just me. My team. My team. Anyway, we will see. I'll bet on that one maybe.

In less than 60 hours the talking ends and the Green Bay Packers and the Pittsburgh Steelers finally take the field. These are two, of course, legendary teams and many say eventually matched and took two different roads to get there.

HOLMES: Mark is live in Arlington, Texas this morning. A tale of two quarterbacks took two different routes to get to where they are these days.

MARC MCKAY, CNN SPORTS CORRESPONDENT: No doubt about it, T.J. both really have a lot to prove back there at Cowboys Stadium comes Sunday. Of course, we know Ben Roethlisberger's story, don't we? He began the season with a four-game suspension. Every time that we tried and, believe me, the media not only at media day at Cowboys Stadium and other availabilities have tried to ask Ben about his of the field situations which, of course, were well-documented, he would always call those that is a reflective question. The time for reflection is after the season. Roethlisberger says he has to worry about the big game and on Sunday he could be only the third quarterback -- the fifth quarterback, I should say, to win three Super Bowl titles. His teammates believe he's a changed man. The fans? They will be a little doubting until that Super Bowl is in hand.

If he leads them to their super bowl title on Sunday, Steeler fans will certainly forgive and forget. The other side of the coin, while Aaron Rodgers, what a story he is as he walked in a long shadow for a long time cast by Brett Favre. That on again/off again retirement saga. Rodgers was able to pull his way through that.

His character, everyone speaks at how the character that Aaron Rodgers has and now he has Green Bay on the cusp of yet another super bowl triumph, their first since 1997. Aaron says he learned a lot by studying one of the best quarterbacks in the business, Brett Favre. He has a lot of respect for him. Now Rodgers has a chance to show what he can do back there on Sunday. T.J.?

CHETRY: Mark, also, it's really fascinating. Last year 106 million people watched the Super Bowl and setting records all over the place. They say this matchup could be more watched. This huge matchup. Is it going to live up to the hype?

MCKAY: Well, I think it will. Think about the two traditional teams they have here and certainly we have seen the ticket prices go up $3,500 the resale price now. You want a partial suite inside Cowboys Stadium? That will run you about $75,000. So there is a big demand for tickets here in Dallas.

CHETRY: We can't let you go without saying what the heck is it doing snowing in Dallas right now? I'm sure nobody who thought the super bowl was going there planned on this!

MCKAY: No. We had ice earlier in the week. The roads were a mess. They are a mess this morning because we had six inches of overnight snow on top of the ice we had already! Kiran and T.J.

HOLMES: All right, Mark, good to see you, as always. Enjoy the rest of your weekend and the big game on Sunday. We'll talk to you again soon. Our viewers, we're getting close to the top of the hour. A quick break. Your top stories are coming up.

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