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Nancy Grace
Mom Who Left Newborn in Restroom Arrested
Aired February 09, 2011 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight, live, South Carolina. After 10,000 people clear out the Greenville Bi-Lo arena and the Ringling Brothers Barnum & Bailey circus, the shock of a lifetime. In a secluded toilet at the ladies restroom, a newborn baby, a baby just one our old, abandoned, left barely clinging to life, whimpering, crying in the commode of a bathroom stall. Right now, that baby is fighting for its life as police comb hours of grainy surveillance video.
Bombshell tonight. Have police zeroed in on the mommy -- she doesn`t even deserve to be called mommy -- who left her baby to die?
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
911 OPERATOR: 911. What`s your emergency?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, I`m here in Bi-Lo Center. I need a rescue right away. We found a baby inside a toilet.
911 OPERATOR: OK, do what, now?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We found a newborn baby inside the toilet.
911 OPERATOR: OK, stay on the line for EMS. I`ll hang up.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.
911 OPERATOR: EMS fire. What`s the address of the emergency?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, this is Eder Serrano from Bi-Lo Center. We found a newborn baby inside a toilet. Can you please send an ambulance or something?
911 OPERATOR: You said this is at the Bi-Lo Center?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. I`m the housekeeping manager, and my lady told me they find a newborn baby inside the toilet.
911 OPERATOR: Is the baby breathing?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s breathing. It`s newborn. My supervisor has taken it out of the toilet already. We try to clean the nose. But we don`t know anything about it, you know?
911 OPERATOR: And the baby is alive and the baby is breathing?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The baby is alive. It`s crying. It`s breathing (INAUDIBLE)
911 OPERATOR: Crying (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
911 OPERATOR: OK, do you have a blanket or anything like that on the baby?
911 OPERATOR: We put a blanket over (INAUDIBLE) top.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Bombshell tonight. After 10,000 people leave the Greenville Bi- Lo arena and the Ringling Brothers Barnum & Bailey circus, the shock of a lifetime. In a secluded toilet, ladies bathroom, a newborn baby one hour old left barely clinging to life in the commode of the bathroom stall. But tonight, have police zeroed in on the mommy who left her baby to die?
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
911 OPERATOR: Now, the paramedics are on their way, sir. I need you to stay on the line so I can tell you exactly what to do next, OK? Just make sure that they gently wipe off the baby`s mouth and nose, dry the baby off with a clean towel, OK, or a cloth. Just keep the baby wrapped in a clean, dry cloth or towel.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re doing that right now.
911 OPERATOR: OK. Make sure that you cover the baby`s head but not its face, OK?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.
911 OPERATOR: Without pulling the cord tight, make sure that the cord`s not wrapped around the baby`s neck, OK? And be sure to keep the baby -- and is the mother around anywhere?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A towel?
911 OPERATOR: Yes, a clean, dry cloth or towel. Make sure that they don`t pull on the cord, but they do need to tie that cord about six inches from the baby. But they need to tie it about six inches from the baby. And keep the baby wrapped up, OK? Now, it`s important for you to watch the baby, make sure that the baby`s OK and stays breathing. Use the blanket to keep the baby warm, OK? A clean, dry cloth or towel. Now, how`s the baby doing?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She`s doing better.
911 OPERATOR: OK. Is the baby still breathing?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. We wiping up with the blood with a wet cloth.
911 OPERATOR: And did you tie the cord?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, we did, six inches...
911 OPERATOR: OK.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
GRACE: We are taking your calls live. Take a look at the mommy, according to police, who basically tried to flush her newborn baby boy down the commode. How many people, couples, moms across this country, ladies that would give anything, all the money in their bank account, to have a baby boy, a baby girl, an infant to love? And what does she do? Flush the baby down the commode.
It didn`t work, Mommy! And guess what the defense says? She had amnesia. Amnesia! She can`t remember what happened. She didn`t know she was pregnant.
What do we know about this woman, Nicole Partin, investigative reporter?
NICOLE PARTIN, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER (via telephone): Good evening, Nancy. We know that in less than 24 hours after delivering this six-pound, beautiful baby boy in a restroom at an arena, 24-year-old Jessica Ann Blackham walked into a women`s hospital. It was then that authorities were notified. She was arrested, stood before a judge. Her claim is, I went into the restroom. That`s all I remember. I can`t remember anything after that.
We know she`s 24 years old. We know she has another 4-year-old daughter. She claims she didn`t know she was pregnant. She doesn`t know who the father is. And she can`t remember anything.
GRACE: Well, actually, Nicole Partin -- for those of you just joining us, police apparently have zeroed in on the mom who left her newborn baby boy to die, trying to flush him down the ladies` toilet in a public bathroom in the Greenville Bi-Lo arena, right in the middle of the Barnum, Bailey, Ringling circus.
Now, apparently, she had perfect recall, total recall, perfect memory, all the way up until the time she went into that bathroom. And then after she came out, she remembered everything. She remembered how to get back to her seat in the middle of a 10,000-people crowd, find her family, leave as if nothing had happened. But for those 45 minutes or so, she had amnesia. She also says she doesn`t -- didn`t have any idea she was pregnant. But we now know she`s got a 4-year-old little girl. You know, temporary amnesia - - that`s convenient!
To Jean Casarez, legal correspondent. What more can you tell me?
JEAN CASAREZ, "IN SESSION": Well, Nancy, the defense is there. She`s cornered (ph) herself in the defense. And she`s facing 30 years in prison because there is one count of felony child abuse and one count of felony neglect. But prosecutors say they don`t think they have the evidence at this point for attempted murder.
GRACE: Just hours after we go live with this story, reporting a little infant boy attempted to be flushed down the commode by his mother, we find out police have zeroed in on Jessica Blackham, 24-year-old mother of one girl. And no, she`s not behind bars tonight, is she, Alexis Weed.
ALEXIS WEED, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: ... released on a $30,000 bond. The judge let her go. She`s been ordered to stay in the county where she lives. She`s also been ordered to return full-time to her job at a local K-Mart.
GRACE: Wait a minute. If she`s got blackout episodes so bad that she can`t recall what happened, how`s she going back to work? Explain that to me.
Let`s go out to Leslie Austin, psychotherapist, joining us out of New York. If she`s got these sudden bouts of blackouts and amnesia, how can she go to work?
LESLIE AUSTIN, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: I don`t see how she can. I don`t believe the amnesia, either. If she had said shock, if she had said hysteria, I would have believed that. It wouldn`t have been OK, but I would have believed that. But amnesia? Does she have any record of it previously? Very hard to believe.
GRACE: And didn`t her husband, Jean Casarez, say something along the lines of, quote, "I don`t believe her crap"?
CASAREZ: Well, this is what`s interesting. She is married. She`s been separated for about a year. She lives with her sister and her 4-year- old child. So that`s right, she`s been pregnant before. And as to whether whose child it is at this point, nobody seems to know.
CASAREZ: But she has been working, taking care of the daughter, visiting her parents two and three times a week. And believe me, everybody, having delivered twins, you know you`re pregnant. There`s no doubt in your mind.
To Dr. Evelyn Minaya, women`s health expert. Dr. Minaya, before we go to our callers, explain to me what she would have had to do to give birth in a toilet.
DR. EVELYN MINAYA, WOMEN`S HEALTH EXPERT: Well, first of all, you understand that this is highly impossible to do. You have to sit in the commode. You`re getting contractions, and you feel the urge to push. Not only do you have to push out that baby, OK, but remember, the cord, the rest of the cord was also missing. There was no placenta to be found. So that means that she actually knows to cut the cord, and the placenta was still inside of her or she might have disposed of it anyway. So you`re going to tell me that this woman...
GRACE: Wait a minute.
MINAYA: ... didn`t know what was happening? Please.
GRACE: So Dr. Minaya, you`re saying you`ve got to deliver the baby, then deliver the placenta.
MINAYA: Yes.
GRACE: Explain to us how that occurs.
MINAYA: Well, again, you get other contractions, as well. So first you have the biggest contractions, which is when the baby is coming out. And then you still have contractions because the uterus knows there`s still something inside of it. So therefore, you have more contractions, and you actually feel the urge to push that out, too, and then the placenta also comes.
GRACE: Here`s the direct quote from the husband. "She`s been pulling this crap for years."
Now, another thing -- out to you, Jean Casarez. When asked who`s the daddy of the baby, she says, I`ve got an idea. I have an idea. An idea? Well, that certainly narrows it down, Jean.
CASAREZ: Well, it does narrow it down, doesn`t it. And it may provide intent and motive to do what was done. You know, Nancy, we also found out that that little baby just wasn`t sitting in the commode, it was choking on the water. And the person that worked in maintenance that found it that night truly rescued that child.
GRACE: We are taking your calls live. Let`s go out to Kara in Colorado. Hi, Kara.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Ms. Grace. How are you?
GRACE: I`m great, dear.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I couldn`t wait to see this case -- I couldn`t wait to see it air on your show. I knew you would come through! My question to you is, how long is that woman going to get to hang onto that 4-year-old child? If she can be -- have that much disregard for her son, then how do we know she is not abusing or going to abuse her 4-year-old daughter?
GRACE: Well, as a matter of fact, we don`t know. And if all these relatives come forward now to say, Well, she`s not right mentally -- well, they`ve left -- they, the family and relatives, have left a 4-year-old girl in her custody for four years. So she must be OK because nobody`s tried to take the daughter away from her.
But to Nicole Partin, investigative reporter. Where is the 4-year-old daughter tonight?
PARTIN: Nancy, we`re being told that her 4-year-old little girl is with family members, possibly her mother, possibly the sister. And we`re also being told that her husband, Thomas Blackham -- they`ve been married for five years -- he claims that he had tried to tell DSS and also her family that she needed help. He claims that she was mentally incompetent. He -- his quote was, "There`s something mentally wrong with her."
GRACE: Well, nobody did anything. No one took the baby away. She had a full-time job. She functioned normally in society. It`s my understanding, Jean Casarez, that DFACS has the 4-year-old.
CASAREZ: That`s right. Department of Social Services has the 4-year- old. They have -- they have custody of the infant, although the infant is in a hospital now. And we are very happy to say stable condition tonight.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
911 OPERATOR: And the baby is alive and the baby is breathing?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The baby is alive. He`s crying. He`s breathing.
911 OPERATOR: (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, ma`am.
911 OPERATOR: OK, do you have a blanket or anything like that on the baby?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We put a blanket already on the top.
911 OPERATOR: OK. Make sure that you keep the baby warm. And you said that the baby is awake, sir?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
911 OPERATOR: Sir, this is city police.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
911 OPERATOR: Is Nicky your manager here?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nicky`s (INAUDIBLE) I call her first (INAUDIBLE)
911 OPERATOR: OK. OK, now, the paramedics are on their way, sir. And you just need to stay on the line so I can tell you exactly what to do next, OK? Just make sure that they gently wipe off the baby`s mouth and nose, dry the baby off with a clean towel, OK, or cloth. Just keep the baby wrapped in a clean, dry cloth or towel.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re doing that right now.
911 OPERATOR: OK, and make sure that you cover the baby`s head but not its face, OK?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.
911 OPERATOR: Now, without pulling the cord...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE)
911 OPERATOR: Without pulling the cord tight, make sure that the cord`s not wrapped around the baby`s neck, OK? And be sure to keep the baby -- is the mother around anywhere?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A towel?
911 OPERATOR: Yes, a clean, dry cloth or towel.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, we (INAUDIBLE)
911 OPERATOR: OK, now listen carefully. I`m going to tell you what to do next, OK?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE)
911 OPERATOR: Yes, sir. Sir -- sir, I have the fire department there to help you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
911 OPERATOR: 911. What`s your emergency?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, please. I`m in the Bi-Lo Center. I need a rescue right away. We found a baby inside the toilet.
911 OPERATOR: OK, do what, now?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We found a newborn baby inside the toilet.
911 OPERATOR: OK, stay on the line for EMS. Don`t hang up.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.
911 OPERATOR: EMS Fire. What`s the address of the emergency?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, this is Eder Serrano from the Bi-Lo Center. We find a newborn baby inside the toilet. Can you please send an ambulance or something?
911 OPERATOR: You said at the Bi-Lo Center?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. I`m the housekeeping manager, and my lady told me they found a newborn baby inside the toilet.
911 OPERATOR: OK, I`m sending help to you, but I need you to stay on the line so I can get some more information, OK?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right.
911 OPERATOR: Is the baby breathing?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s breathing. It`s newborn. My supervisor take it out from the toilet already. We tried to clean the nose, but not much. We don`t know anything about it, you know?
911 OPERATOR: OK. I understand that. I just need to get some more information.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
GRACE: We are taking your calls, but first to Jean Casarez. I want to go back through the timeline, the sequence of events. Tell me how the baby was found.
CASAREZ: All right, 11:30 PM. That is when a maintenance worker, actually, a temporary worker was in the bathroom, and we believe heard some sounds, and then went in and found all this blood around the toilet bowl and found a living, breathing infant. They immediately got some supervisors, who then immediately called 911, who within five minutes were on the scene. And as you heard in that 911 call, they worked (SIC) those workers on how to protect that baby until EMS arrived.
GRACE: And Nicole Partin, how exactly did they find the baby in the commode? Was it under water, what? Explain.
PARTIN: Yes, he was. He was in the toilet feet first. I understand his head was kind of bobbing up and down in the water. He was facing the wall. As Jean mentioned, he was covered in blood. There were paper towels in the toilet, paper towels around the baby. At one point, one of the cleaning crew makes a statement that he was almost sick. He said he felt himself passing out for a few seconds, viewing this gruesome scene. But much to their relief, the baby was alive. And thanks to that crew, they saved this young child.
GRACE: Joining me right now, special guest, Chief Terri Wilfong, the chief at the Greenville, South Carolina, Police Department, joining us from Greenville. Chief, thank you for being with us.
CHIEF TERRI WILFONG, GREENVILLE POLICE DEPARTMENT (via telephone): Thank you, Nancy.
GRACE: Chief, what more can you tell us about the way the baby was found? I have no doubt, now, especially since I`m hearing that there were the paper towels or toilet paper in the commode, in the public toilet with the baby, that she tried to flush this baby down the commode. It`s a miracle the baby survived. How is baby boy John Doe tonight?
WILFONG: He`s doing well. He`s in stable condition, and we`re very thankful for that. And each day, he`s getting better.
GRACE: You know, Chief, I`m going to go to the doctors shortly, but to suck in toilet water in a public commode into your lungs, I`m surprised he`s not just burning up with infection and fever.
WILFONG: That`s our thought, too, because with all the bacteria and everything in there, we were really concerned about that, and I know the hospital has been also. But we all have been very fortunate and blessed because the child is getting much better.
GRACE: Chief, explain to me how you located the mom, the alleged mom, Jessica Blackham.
WILFONG: Well, actually, we got a phone call from her father. The family has been very cooperative with us. He took her to a medical facility and gave us a call and said, My daughter possibly is the one. And that`s when we responded to the hospital.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We (INAUDIBLE)
911 OPERATOR: OK, now listen carefully. I`m going to tell you what to do next, OK?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m right here.
911 OPERATOR: Sir, sir -- sir, I have the fire department there to help you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
911 OPERATOR: And the baby is alive and the baby`s breathing?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The baby is alive and he`s crying, he`s breathing.
911 OPERATOR: Crying and breathing?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, ma`am.
911 OPERATOR: OK, do you have a blanket or anything like that on the baby?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We put a blanket already on the top.
911 OPERATOR: OK. Make sure that you keep the baby warm. And you said that the baby is awake.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
911 OPERATOR: Sir, this is city police.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
911 OPERATOR: Is Nicky your manager there?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, Nicky is my manager. I call her first (INAUDIBLE)
(END AUDIO CLIP)
GRACE: We are taking your calls. Shortly after our program publicizing this case, a baby boy seemingly flushed down a public toilet in a huge arena, the Bi-Lo arena, 10,000 people there for the Ringling Barnum & Bailey circus -- this infant boy is found bobbing up and down in the commode after having been dunked in the water.
To Jennifer in Colorado. Hi, Jennifer.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. I was wondering -- thank you for taking my call. You answered some of the questions, but how did they determine who gets to take care of the child once it`s released from custody of the state or whoever has him?
GRACE: Well, I`m pretty sure it will go into state custody, and if they deem a relative fit to take it and the relative wants the baby, it`s highly likely it will go to a relative. Otherwise, it will be in foster care. Tonight, we understand that this woman`s 4-year-old little girl is in foster care.
We are talking about Jessica Blackham. Shortly after we aired this story, cops zero in on the young mom of one as being the same perpetrator who leaves her infant boy to die.
Unleash the lawyers -- Penny Douglas Furr, defense attorney, Atlanta, Alan Ripka, defense attorney, New York. Penny Douglas Furr, weigh in.
PENNY DOUGLAS FURR, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Nancy, the child will most likely go to a relative because the courts don`t like to take children away from their natural family unless they have to. So if there is a family member there -- but I think this girl obviously has some severe mental problems, obviously.
GRACE: Really? Because she has no history of any type treatment, Alan Ripka. She held down a job. She worked full-time. She took care of her 4-year-old daughter. She lived with her sister. She visited her parents routinely two or three times a week. She`s got an ex-husband and a boyfriend. The ex-husband puts it pretty plainly. He says she didn`t have amnesia. She`s been pulling this crap for years.
ALAN RIPKA, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: This is a woman, Nancy, as you know, who her own family didn`t know she was pregnant. She probably never saw a doctor for herself. She may not have known that she was pregnant. And this...
GRACE: Put Ripka`s face up, please. Ripka, I take it that you`ve never delivered a baby, right? How could you not know you`re pregnant? She`s already had one child.
RIPKA: Her family didn`t know it, Nancy. She never went to a doctor.
GRACE: But she knew, Alan!
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: 911, what`s your emergency?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, please, I`m here in the BI-LO Center. I need a rescue right away. We found a newborn baby inside the toilet.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: OK. Do what now?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We found a newborn baby inside the toilet.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: OK. Stay on the line for EMS. Don`t hang up.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: EMS-Fire, what`s the address for the emergency?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, this Eder Serrano from BI-LO Center. We found a newborn baby inside the toilet. Can you please send an ambulance or something?
UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: You said that`s at BI-LO center?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. I`m the housekeeping manager and my lady told me they found a newborn baby inside the toilet.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: Is the baby breathing?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s breathing. It`s newborn. My supervisor take it out from the toilet already. We`re trying to clean the nose. But not much. We don`t know anything about, you know?
UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: And the baby is alive and the baby is breathing?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The baby is alive. He`s crying, he`s breathing.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: He`s crying and breathing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: OK. Do you have a blanket or anything like that on the baby?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We put a blanket already on the top.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: Is the baby breathing?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s breathing. It`s newborn. My supervisor take it out from the toilet already. We`re trying to clean the nose. But not much. We don`t know anything about it, you know?
UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: OK. I understand that. I just need to get some more information.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: Sir, stay on the line with me, OK?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: OK. Now what`s the phone number you`re calling me from?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m calling from the BI-LO Center.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: Right. What is that number, sir?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My number is --
UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: OK. Now I have help on the way. I just need to confirm this. This isn`t going to delay the response at all. OK? What door do we need to go through? What entrance?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Come to the ticket office. In case my battery dies, I need you to call on another phone.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
NANCY GRACE, HOST: We are taking your calls. Out to Peggy in Mississippi. Hi, Peggy.
I`m sorry, Kerry in Pennsylvania. Hi, Kerry.
KERRY, CALLER FROM PENNSYLVANIA: Hi, Nancy. I have a comment and a question.
GRACE: OK.
KERRY: The comment is I think we really need to appreciate how much those people did for that baby. They cleaned out the baby`s nose before they were even told to do that. I think that`s amazing.
And my question is, could they tell by the amount of blood that was in the toilet whether she had tried to flush it down or not? Because that --
GRACE: Good question.
KERRY: That might become --
GRACE: To Chief Terri Wilfong. What do you know, Chief?
CHIEF TERRI WILFONG, GREENVILLE, SC POLICE DEPT.: The commode was full of blood and of course the baby, the size the baby being over six pounds, we don`t have reason to believe that that occurred.
GRACE: Was the baby wet all over?
WILFONG: Yes, the baby was -- was covered in blood and mucus.
GRACE: OK. And the baby`s head was also wet and there were paper towels stuffed in the commode as well.
To Dr. Evelyn Minaya, what about the possibility of the child ingesting all of that commode water in a public commode? What will that do to the child?
DR. EVELYN MINAYA, M.D., WOMEN`S HEALTH EXPERT: Well, you know, a newborn especially has some immunities given by the mom, but usually it`s not enough to fight all those -- you know really nasty germs that are inside that commode. So what I would suggest obviously is that they go ahead and take -- give him antibiotics because he`s going to need that.
GRACE: And to Sheryl McCollum, crime analyst, director of Cold Case Squad, Pine Lake, P.D., author of "Cold Case, Pathway to Justice," how do you analyze the scene?
SHERYL MCCOLLUM, CRIME ANALYST, DIR. OF COLD CASE SQUAD AT PINE LAKE P.D.: I don`t believe this baby was breech. I believe she put the baby in -- you know, feet first. I believe that the paper towels were to clean up the same, Nancy. I don`t believe the paper towels were in that stall which tells me she was going in and out, trying to clean up.
Again, where`s the after birth? She knew enough to try to hide evidence, Nancy.
GRACE: You know, she`s right, Chief Terri Wilfong. Obviously she was going in and out, and in and out, getting paper towels. There`s not a paper towel dispenser there in the bathroom stall.
And also what about the placenta? Did the workers -- that is the actual toilet we`re showing you right there. Let`s take it at a full screen. You don`t see blood all over the place. She obviously did a cleanup job, Chief.
WILFONG: Yes, we believe that actually did occur, yes.
GRACE: Unleash the lawyers. Alan Ripka, Penny Douglass Furr.
Alan Ripka, you say she`s crazy. But she cleaned up after herself and you cannot tell me she didn`t try to flush that baby down the commode to get rid of all the evidence. She knew enough to clean up after herself, after her crime.
ALAN RIPKA, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Nancy, you have to admit that if she did not know she was pregnant as she`s indicated, then this would be a massive traumatic event, especially for a woman whose husband said she`s mentally ill and thought that she had aliens in her head on prior occasions.
Clearly, somebody who goes through this sort of traumatic events may have a memory loss and a blackout situation. And that`s what happened here.
GRACE: OK. Dr. Leslie Austin, you`re the shrink. We`re just lawyers. What`s the likelihood that she has a blackout and the 45 minutes she`s in the bathroom stall, then it all comes clear, as soon as she gets out to try to find her family in a stadium packed with 10,000 people?
DR. LESLIE AUSTIN, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: Not likely she had a blackout or amnesia, but she could have had a panic attack. She could have been in shock and then recovered enough to go find her family. But that would not necessarily have prevented her taking the actions --
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Leslie, Leslie, Leslie. So her wits come back to her and she forgets she just tried to flush a baby down a commode?
AUSTIN: No. No. I`m saying she never completely lost her wit. She might have been in shock or in panic. But she had enough wits about her to take these actions apparently, and try and clean up after herself.
That doesn`t speak of somebody -- now, her psychological condition outside the bathroom is another story. In that bathroom, I don`t think she was non compos mentis. I really don`t.
GRACE: I don`t even know what that means.
AUSTIN: I think she --
GRACE: Why did you throw that out there? Do I throw Latin at you? No, I don`t.
AUSTIN: I apologize to you. I think that she was in charge of her faculties more than not in that bathroom. She knew what she was doing.
GRACE: To Alexis Weed, what more can you tell us about how she was discovered?
ALEXIS WEED, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Nancy, what I can tell you, just to go back for a second, she was -- she chose to use the stall that was at the end of this bathroom. It was all the way in the back. On the left. So perhaps that points to whether or not she was trying to cover something up.
GRACE: Jean Casarez, how exactly did -- was she made known there at the hospital, were hospital members, doctors, team, starting to put two and two together and says something to the family? What happened?
JEAN CASAREZ, LEGAL CORRESPONDENT, "IN SESSION": Well, they`re saying it`s a confidential source that called law enforcement, but here are the facts. She went to the hospital because of bleeding. And doctors looked at her.
Once you give birth, a doctor can look inside and possibly exactly see what had just taken place. So I think the call came from a hospital professional.
GRACE: Out to the lines. Odelia in Texas, hi, dear, what`s your question?
ODELIA, CALLER FROM TEXAS: Hi. Good evening, Nancy. Thank you for taking my call.
GRACE: Thank you for calling in.
ODELIA: I`m completely outraged with this woman actually being out on bail. And if she says that she has aliens in her head, well, actually, (INAUDIBLE), temporary blackouts, how long is it going to take the judicial system to prosecute her or do something about it?
GRACE: Well, apparently a long time, because the judge has already let her out on low bond. She`s going right back to work. She`s not going to a mental care facility. She`s not going to mental health treatment. No. Because she doesn`t need it. She`s going straight back to work and straight back into her home as if nothing had ever happened.
And let me ask you this, Chief Wilfong, did she ever ask to go see her baby?
WILFONG: No. The evidence that we retained is basically the same information that you have. And so no, no request of that was made.
GRACE: Never asked to even see her baby.
What about it, Dr. Minaya? What do you make of that?
MINAYA: I think that it`s a very sad case of a woman that -- and don`t tell me that she didn`t know she was pregnant, because she did, and everybody knows that. That she does not --
GRACE: Why do you say that? Could you explain that to Alan Ripka?
MINAYA: Yes. Alan, I know.
GRACE: Since he`s had so much experience giving birth.
MINAYA: I know. Alan, I`m sorry to tell you, this woman knew that she was pregnant. You can hide it from your family, that`s been done. You can wear big sweatshirts and things like that. You have a six pound individual in your belly. You feel that thing squirm. You feel that thing -- you know, kick and everything else.
So don`t tell me that you don`t feel that. It`s a baby that`s six pounds. It is a sad case of a woman that really has no desire to be a mother at that time.
GRACE: You don`t just feel it, Dr. Minaya. You can see it.
MINAYA: Absolutely.
GRACE: You can see your stomach --
MINAYA: Grow (ph).
GRACE: The arms and the legs poking out of your stomach trying to get out.
MINAYA: Absolutely.
GRACE: Very quickly, to tonight`s case alert, six assailants, armed with sledge hammers, try to rob a jewelry store. But they`re not stopped by police or store security. Oh, no. They`re thwarted. Take a look at her.
Go granny, go granny, go granny, go granny.
By a 71-year-old grandmother. Weapon? Her purse. Ann Timson busting up a jewel heist, hitting the jewel thieves repeatedly with her handbag, caught on video. Four suspects now in custody.
Way to go, granny.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Picked up the jewels. We hid under the desk. We`re really scared and then we looked outside and God love her, she`s running down the road with her handbag in the air banging them on the back of the helmet with her handbag.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: Now the paramedics are on their way, sir. I need you to stay on the line so I can tell you what to do next. OK? Just make sure that they gently wipe off the baby`s mouth and nose, dry the baby off with a clean towel, OK? Or cloth. Just keep the baby wrapped in a clean dry cloth or towel.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re doing that right now.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: OK. Make sure that you cover the baby`s head but not its face, OK?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: Without pulling the cord tight -- make sure that the cord is not wrapped around the baby`s neck, OK? And be sure to keep the baby -- is the mother around anywhere?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A towel?
UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: Yes, a clean dry cloth or towel. Make sure that they don`t pull on the cord but they do need to tie that cord about six inches from the baby.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: But they need to tie it about six inches from the baby. Keep the baby wrapped up, OK? It`s important for you to watch --
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are taking your calls. Shortly after we publicized a baby boy drowning in this public commode, the BI-LO arena there in North Carolina, 10,000 people there for the circus, this baby all the way down at the end of one of those long, long bathrooms that you see in public arenas and stadiums.
The child in the water, its head going up and down, up and down, clearly part of the cleanup. Mommy did not want anybody to know she has given birth.
Tonight cops zero in on 24-year-old Jessica Blackham.
Out to the lines. Tina in Ohio. Hi, Tina.
TINA, CALLER FROM OHIO: Hi, Nancy.
GRACE: Hi, dear. What`s your question?
TINA: God bless you and your family. I`d like to say. My question is, did they check the baby to see if it was addicted to any drugs that maybe the mother took?
GRACE: That is a great question.
To Nicole Partin, investigative reporter, joining us out of Tennessee. Nicole, what do we know?
NICOLE PARTIN, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER: We are not being told that they had tested the baby for any type of drugs. We were told that Jessica was not tested for drugs. We were told that authorities didn`t see any need of that. They seemed to not believe that drugs or alcohol played any role in her decision to do this to her child.
GRACE: Well, Penny Douglas Furr and Alan Ripka, there`s one less defense you`ve got. She can`t say that she was stoned out of her mind at the circus. So what`s left, Penny?
PENNY DOUGLASS FURR, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, Nancy, what makes no sense is, if she really wanted to fool everybody, why would she have had the baby in a public place? Why wouldn`t she have it at home?
GRACE: Well --
FURR: And then dispose of the baby?
GRACE: Frankly, Penny, you can`t always pick when you go into labor. All right?
FURR: Well, I would like to know --
GRACE: That`s why. I`m sure she would have much rather have done it in the privacy of her own bathroom, you know? But it didn`t work out that way. That wasn`t God`s plan. Maybe this was God`s plan, so the baby wouldn`t be buried in the backyard, the baby would live.
Baby John Doe is alive tonight, in serious but stable condition. And to suggest that why didn`t she give birth somewhere private, if this is part of her plan, Mother Nature luckily didn`t go along with her murderous plan.
What about it, Ripka?
RIPKA: Well, the bottom line, Nancy, is she had other alternatives. If she believed in abortion, abortion was an alternative also. She didn`t have to wait for nine months and then hope that the baby wouldn`t come out at an inconvenient place like a circus.
Obviously she didn`t intend on this happening because she went to the circus that night. It doesn`t make any sense.
GRACE: No, what you just said didn`t make any sense.
Leslie Austin, obviously she didn`t want the baby. If she had planned it out or done it in time, she very likely would have had an abortion. But clearly she didn`t want the baby.
AUSTIN: I guess she didn`t or she just wasn`t planning. Maybe she was trying to deny it and ignore it, which is extremely foolish and stupid. It is a human baby, it`s a life, you have to take care. You have to pay attention. But she didn`t want to take care in any way. So she didn`t plan.
GRACE: Joining us right now, the man who claims he is the baby`s father, Jason Jones.
Mr. Jones, thank you for being with us.
JASON JONES, CLAIMS HE`S FATHER OF INFANT FOUND IN TOILET: You`re welcome.
GRACE: What happened?
JONES: She -- from what I`ve been told and I`ve been very close to a source, we haven`t spoken to her, we haven`t spokes in about eight months, but as far as being her not nothing she was pregnant, that`s a bunch of bull crap.
She wrote on her Facebook that she was at one time having morning sickness and a bunch of headaches, and I commented and asked her was she pregnant, and she told me not to worry about it. That she would take care of it.
GRACE: How did you know her?
JONES: We worked together at a fast food restaurant where I work now. That was about two years ago. And then we moved in together when she left her husband. And she moved in with me in May, and we had a relationship up until July. And then she moved back in with her sister.
GRACE: What about all this business?
Everyone, just joining us is the alleged father of the baby. He had no idea that she would pull this stunt in a public arena.
Tell me something. What`s all this business that her family is trying to say that she has mental problems and that she claims she had amnesia?
JONES: Yes. I don`t know about the amnesia. I don`t buy into that. I think that`s just a line for her parents, you know, to cover all this up. Knowing the kind of people that they are. Her husband can testify to that, which he has.
About the part where she hears aliens, that`s what she told me one night, sitting on the front porch. She looked at me and says, I hear aliens in my head. Do not tell nobody because they`ll come and take my daughter away from me.
GRACE: OK. Let me ask you this.
JONES: OK.
GRACE: Other than telling you that one night, sitting on the porch, did she ever display mental illness?
JONES: No, she was -- as far as taking care, you know, nothing like that. She was a good mother to the 4-year-old, for the first four years, because the first three years of the child`s life, the father was in Iraq. So she was by herself taking care of the baby. So as far as mental issues or anything like that, no, she was very stable.
GRACE: Why did you guys break up?
JONES: I caught her talking to somebody else, playing around on me, and I confronted her about it and she got mad and we got into an argument and she decided to move in with her sister.
GRACE: So it was over another guy? You broke up over her flirting with another guy?
JONES: Yes.
GRACE: Now, how -- how did you come to believe this baby is yours?
JONES: The timeline, from right when she left her husband, I was -- I was the one that pretty much made her leave her husband because she decided that she wanted to move in with me because she said he was abusive to her. And we were together from May, and I found her running around on me in July. And that`s the first time that she ever, you know, done it to me. And from May to June, that`s when she pretty much conceived, I guess, and that`s what the timeline is. And I`m thinking I`m the father.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Joining us right now, the man that says he is the father of the baby boy found floating, bobbing in a public commode in the ladies` restroom at the BI-LO arena.
Joining me is Jason Jones.
Jason, are you going to try to get the baby?
JONES: I`m going to try. I`m currently fighting with social service right now. We have fought and fought for five days to try to get a DNA done. They`re just messing around. They`re just taking their old sweet time. They said it`s going to be like a month. They`re telling me a month when she goes back to court before they can get me a DNA test.
GRACE: Well, according to police, you`re one -- I don`t want to disappoint you, but you`re one of three candidates that may be the father. So it wasn`t just her husband and you and some other guy that she was running around with allegedly. There may be another guy out there.
Question. You`re telling me that other than one time saying, you know, I hear aliens in my head, there was no sign of mental illness, she wasn`t on medication, getting treatment, nothing?
JONES: No. No. She -- her husband has -- came to me and said this is a bizarre relationship that all three of us had. You know me and her husband was actually friends -- actually had a good relationship when we -- you know when me and Jessica was together because of the 4-year-old. And he told me at times that she needed to be on medication. She was out of her mind --
GRACE: But you never noticed that?
JONES: No, ma`am.
GRACE: You never noticed that. And yes or no, Jason. Do you think she simply did not want the baby?
JONES: I do. I think she couldn`t afford it and she just didn`t care and she just wanted to kill it.
GRACE: Everyone, let`s stop and remember Army Specialist Marc Delgado, 21, (INAUDIBLE), Florida, killed Iraq. Awarded the Bronze Star, Purple Heart, Army Commendation. Wanted to serve like his grandfather, Don.
Loved football, friends. Remembered for bear hugs. Leaves behind parents Ron and Ellen, brothers Eric and Bryce. Both serving the navy.
Marc Delgado, American hero.
Thanks to our guests, but especially to you. And a special good night from one of our superstars here at CNN, Mike and his wife Sherry. This is the guy with a six-wheeler that got me to work during the Atlanta blizzard.
And hello to Audrey Jones, producer at the V. My first line producer on "Cochran and Grace."
Our thoughts and prayers tonight to Susie Ernst recovering from severe infection. Husband Dave and sons John and Nick been by her side 24/7. Thanks to the doctors and nurses, Norwalk Hospital.
Everyone, I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.
END
